An Untold Story Will Seek Its Way Out

Buried pain doesn’t politely stay in the corner. It pushes out through the cracks, showing up as anger that doesn’t match the moment, anxiety you can’t explain, destructive habits you can’t quit, and relationships that keep taking hits. In this episode, we get honest about why so many Christians learn to hide the hardest parts of their story, especially in a performance-driven church culture where looking strong can feel safer than being known.

We unpack what avoidance looks like in real life, why pastors can be some of the worst offenders, and how the gospel dismantles the scoreboard that turns weakness into shame. 

We also get practical: how to share without trauma dumping, why starting slow matters, how to choose trustworthy, mature friends, why listening beats fixing, and when biblical counseling can be a wise next step (including a resource to help you find support). We close by praying for courage and for safe people who can hold your story with care.

If this helped, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more wounded souls can find real hope.

Transcript

Stories We Hide And Why

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Welcome to Religion Sucks, the podcast where we ditch the religious performance and get real about what it means to know God. My name is Rich, and I'm here with my wife and co-host Kirsten.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Today we're going to talk about stories. Everyone has a story. There are good parts of our stories, things we're excited to talk about, and then there are hard parts of our stories, sometimes really hard. These are things we tend to hide, things we don't want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Right. And today we're going to talk about what happens to that pain when we bury it. Because spoiler alert, it doesn't just sit quietly in the corner. It finds a way out. So we'll get into what that looks like, why it's so destructive, and we'll actually give you some helpful tips for starting to share the hard stuff in a way that doesn't wreck you or the person you're talking to.

Avoidance Feels Like Relief

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Amen. So, okay, dear, I've never I've never asked you this question, but what is your earliest memory of God? We ask everybody that. Yeah, and we don't we're not trying to bag on our Catholic brothers and sisters. There's some amazing Catholic people who have a very passionate relationship with Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, those those Catholics know how to build churches and those beautiful. Gorgeous.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

A far far cry from the strip mall that we meet in. It's definitely an experience.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

And you can you can experience God there. And I I appreciate that about it, you know. So and that's actually a great setup for what we want to talk about today. We named this episode after a line from a book that Kirsten and I have been reading called When It's Trauma by Darby Strickland. It's a biblical counseling book, really good. And the line is um an untold story will seek its way out. And Strickland talks a lot about avoidance, you know, why we dodge the painful stuff. And she makes this point. And avoidance, that avoidance might feel like relief in the moment, but it's actually just blocking your healing. Um, you're not dealing with it, you're just putting it off. And the story, you know, is still in there, looking for a doorway.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Mm-hmm. So you're a pastor deer, among many other things that you do, and you've been in ministry for like almost 30 years. How have you seen this play out in people's lives? Like, how do people avoid dealing with their pain? And how do those stories seek their way out, so to speak? How does that hidden pain manifest itself in people's lives?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, it's almost been 30 years, my goodness. Um, which means I have had a front row seat to a lot of people's lives, and and honestly, that's been one of the greatest privileges of pastoral ministry. And you get to see everything. I mean, you get the good stuff people post on Instagram and the the stuff that they never post in a million years. And what I've seen over and over is that people are incredibly creative when it comes to avoiding pain, like genuine talent here. Some people they they stay busy, you know, they figure if you never slow down, you you never have to feel anything. You know, some people perform, they just become the best version of a Christian that they can manufacture because if everyone thinks you're doing great, maybe you can convince yourself too. I've seen people um numb out, you know, whether that's substances, their screens, their work, food, whatever their thing is, and and then I've seen people just spiritualize it. You know, they they quote verses at their pain, they call it faith, which sounds really holy, until it doesn't work anymore. And and here's the thing, is it always comes out, always. It might take years, but the story will find a door. It it shows up as anger that's completely disproportionate to the situation. It shows up in marriages falling apart. Nobody can quite explain why. It shows up as anxiety or depression or just this low-grade joylessness that people can't shake. I mean, it shows up in how people parent their kids, sometimes becoming the very thing that they swore they'd never be, right? And the the pain that doesn't disappear because you ignored it. So um it just kind of goes underground and and starts affecting everything from down there.

Pastors Under Pressure To Perform

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there is a cost to keeping things in the dark. It's I heard someone once compare it to putting a band-aid over a shotgun wound.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Like you can make it look okay on the outside, but there's something still festering in there, and it it's not gonna go away. So okay, this is getting a little personal, but I feel like pastors or people in ministry are actually sometimes the worst at this. Do you have any thoughts on that as far as like hiding pain or things like that?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Well, yeah. I mean, I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, I mean, you see these, you know, great spiritual leaders, people in ministry, pastors, whatever, have these great moral failings like all the time. Yeah. And I'm not justifying that whatsoever. But sometimes it's because of things they haven't dealt with.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

You know?

SPEAKER_00 8:03

I mean, pastors, I think ministry people in general are the worst at this. And I say that as someone who has absolutely been guilty of it over the years. Um, and here's why I I would say I think that is there's this unspoken expectation, you know, sometimes um spoken actually, that the the pastor has it all together, that you're the one with the answers, you're the shepherd, not the sheep. So you develop this habit of always being the helper and never being the one who needs help. You get really good at sitting across from someone else's pain while keeping yours at arm's length. Um, and then there's this performance aspect of religion culture that we we talk about a lot on this podcast. If if your whole environment rewards the appearance of special spiritual health, then you learn really quick to maintain that appearance, you know, even from the pulpit, maybe especially from the pulpit. I love your uh I love your band-aid over a shotgun wound. I mean, because I think that's exactly right, because it's it's not only ineffective, it's it's actually making things worse because now you're spending energy maintaining the band aid. You know, that's that's exhausting, and and uh that's when we tend to burn out or or flame out. In my experience, the people who finally just stop, you know, stop performing, stop hiding, stop white knuckling it, those are the people who finally start experiencing what grace actually feels like.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yeah, and it's something I've noticed, at least in our ministry, from the very get-go, we never I don't feel like we put on a show. Because we really like the Lord calls the weak and foolish things of the world, right? I mean, we we couldn't put on a show. We are the weak and the foolish, like there was no, you know, external performance we really could uh manufacture for our congregation. So I feel like having that vulnerability and just that very, I don't know, kind of self-deprecating just this is who we are has actually encouraged our little flock to be open and honest about who they are, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

And not question their, you know, or not question my salvation when they see my mess or um you know the fact that God's working in me and sanctifying me or um well and I think it's questioning my standards, you know, if I'm still struggling, you know.

Jesus Owns The Locked Closet

SPEAKER_02 10:40

It keeps us, the body of Christ, from putting leaders and pastors on a pedestal because we can honestly say, I don't have all the answers, but I can point you to the one who does, you know. How do you think religion and by religion I mean that performance-based attempt to have a relationship with God, what I can do, not what Christ has done and is doing for me, right? How does that force us to hide our pain and weaknesses instead of being honest about them?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, good question. Well, I mean, so religion in the the performance sense, you know, not genuine faith, I think it creates a scoreboard. Um on that scoreboard, I mean, pain and and struggles, those are those are weakness, those are liabilities, and there are things to be managed, there are things to be hidden, um, not brought into the light. I mean, if people see your mess, they might question whether you are saved, whether you're really being sanctified, whether you're, you know, the standard is in your particular church culture, you know. So what ends up happening is people learn to to wear a mask early on. You know, you you smile on Sundays, you you say the right things, you volunteer, you show up. Meanwhile, you're carrying something really, you know, heavy that that nobody knows about. And and the I'd say the cruel irony is that the one place that should be the safest place to be honest, the church, the body of Christ, becomes the place where you you know feel the the least safe to be real.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah. There's a quote, I don't know who said it. I hate that because I can't attribute it, but somebody said if dependence is the goal, then weakness is a benefit. You know, and I think at the heart of all that is pride. It's pride. We don't want to admit that we're wholly dependent upon Christ, that we have no strength or goodness of our own.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

You know, or you're doubting that he can live out through his people, through the body, and uh in a way that can provide you with comfort and wisdom and and direction, you know, that the body of Christ should be.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

So, yeah. Um, because here's what I know to be true. As followers of Christ, we are never meant to live in the dark. Uh, we're meant to walk in freedom, in the light, with uh with Christ and with each other. But getting there, that's that's the journey. That's that's completely normal. That's what we call sanctification, you know, becoming more like Christ. And but here's what tends to happen, though. You know, someone comes to faith and it's like new creation, old things gone, new things come, hallelujah. And then they take everything painful from their past, they just shove it in a closet, they lock the door, and then act like it, you know, doesn't exist. Like if they look at it, or if they don't look at it, it'll just go away. But here's the problem with that pain is that Jesus owns that closet now. And he's got the key. Amen. He loves you too much to leave that stuff in there. So he's gonna help you bring it into the light because that's where the real you know healing happens.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah, it makes me think of I came across this verse this week in my reading, John 6 37, where Jesus says, All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me, I will never cast out. Jesus is not going to be appalled by your stuff if you bring it into the light. He's not gonna turn away from you. He knew about all that stuff when he saved you, right? Clutch my pearls, right? What did Kirsten do? In fact, he knows what we think before we think it, so that's alarming, but and it makes me think of um Jesus' mission statement. If you look at Luke 4, 18 and 19, where he says, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor, he has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor. So good. So that means if you are poor, captive, blind, oppressed, you're in a good place to receive Christ's grace and mercy, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, that's right.

Confession That Softens Grief

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Okay, dear. What are some of the hard parts of your story that you haven't wanted to tell? And what what were the results when you started talking about those things?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

I'll say first that I'm genuinely grateful. I have a small group of guys that I get together with, you know, every month or two. And and over the years I've learned to actually be honest in that space, to process stuff instead of just reporting it. And that didn't come naturally, but it's been one of the most life-giving things in my life. So I'm really not starting from zero here. Um, but there are things that I've not really dug into much. Um one of them I was just thinking about the other day was, you know, who I was in high school. And to be honest, I think you and I both kind of look back and go, what were we doing? What were we thinking? Why do we wear that? But I was, you know, back in those days, I was kind of a selfish jerk. Um, like genuinely not a great person to be around. And the thing that makes it worse looking back is that I'd say I kept up appearances the whole time, you know, at church, at home, doing all the right things in the right places while being somebody completely different everywhere else. There's something about you know living a double life like that, even as a teenager, that I think shaped some patterns that I'd say took a long time to recognize in myself as an adult, you know, this gap between who you perform as and and who you actually are. That's a pretty lonely place to live. And when I've actually um talked about that with my guys, you know, or with you, just owned it, not spiritualized it or explained it away, there's there's been relief. Like, okay, that was real, that was me, and and God's grace covers even that version of me, but also some honest examination of where some of those patterns will, you know, show up now or in the future, and that's uncomfortable. You know, that's but it's good, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah. It made me, okay, this is off track here. Just bear with me for a sec. It makes me think of how good and healing genuine repentance is. Like not just saying sorry or the kind of like the aweshucks, I guess I shouldn't have done that. But like truly bringing sin out into the light before the Lord and being like, that was wrong. I I turn away from that, I repent of that, Lord. I know that was wrong, and taking hold of his grace.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

When you do it, it loses power. You're not waking up at 2 a.m. panicking about it.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah, those things lose their power over you when you bring it to the light. And you can't really experience God's grace, the fullness of what Christ has done for you without genuine repentance.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Right. I'd say another one uh and it's probably an ongoing grief, honestly. You know, when you're in ministry for 30 years, you you walk with a lot of people, you do life with them, you love them, and you know, their family. And some of them walk away from the Lord, and you know, not all once, hopefully just gradually, and and then one day you realize they're gone, and that never ever gets easy. You know, there's this complicated mix of of both grief and I would say even self-examination. You know, did I miss something? Could I have done something differently? And that, and I don't think I fully, you know, sat with it. But the times that I have talked about it, what I've found is that I'm not as alone in that grief as I thought. I get together with pastors on a monthly basis too, and um other people in ministry carry that around as well. You know, there's something really um settling about that, not because it makes the loss hurt less, but because grief shared is just lighter than than grief you carry by yourself, I'd I'd say so.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah, okay. It makes me think of I I tend to beat this trauma a lot, so I apologize, but how important it is for people to be actively involved in the body of Christ and committed to a local church. Um because the enemy likes to isolate us. That's why I think that's one of his number one tactics. Get them away, get them alone, and then I can beat up on them.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

But like you were saying, when you were with other people within the body, you realize my struggles are not neat and unique. Everybody struggles with this. I thought I had some crazy dysfunction. I don't. This is pretty common to the human experience. Or this temptation I'm wrestling with. Everybody else wrestles with that too. And you can, you know, just find such encouragement and such comfort bringing those things out into the light and just being with brothers and sisters in Christ.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

I do have one other that's probably the the most raw, and I don't talk about very much. It's it's our foster son. And I think this this hits you and me um both. I mean, we got him when he was six months old, we raised him for two years, and he was ours in every way that mattered. And then his biological father checked enough boxes with the county to get him back, and we had to hand him over to a situation that wasn't great, and and there's nothing you can do. And you advocate as as hard as you can, then you just have to let go of this little kid who you know call you called you dad, called you mom, and and trust God for something that feels completely untrustworthy. And I don't have a tidy bow to put on that one, but what I will say is that you know, the times that you and I, you know, talked about it together, the times I brought it to my guys, you know, just said that this still hurts. I don't fully understand it. Those confer those conversations have kept it from you know calcifying into something bitter. You know, grief that gets talked about stays soft, but grief that's It doesn't, you know, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Oh, that's so good. I like that image of something calcifying. Yeah, like grief when you talk about it, when you share it, it doesn't necessarily take away the grief, but your heart stays soft and it's able to be healed. It's malleable, you know, in the Lord's hands. But when we don't and we hold that inside, it just gets hard. Yeah, that's such a good point.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, I could get grow bitterer from that situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

At least talking about it and well, and then other people can pray for you. And okay, there's another drama beat a lot. Prayer. You can you can bring someone before the throne of God. That's what you're doing in prayer, you know, and when people pray for us, that's what they're doing for us. But you gotta talk about things.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah. Otherwise they don't know.

Becoming Safe Listeners In Church

SPEAKER_02 22:52

So here's a question for you as a pastor. How can the church, capital C church, the body of Christ, get better at listening to people's difficult stories? Like, how can we become safe places for wounded souls?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

And this this is so hard because I know all this stuff. We're sitting here talking about it. And I ran into someone at church, it's probably a month ago, who was sharing something. It wasn't even that hard. It was just kind of an interesting part of their life that I didn't know how to respond to. And I, without even thinking or meaning to change the subject because I didn't want to make them feel weird. I wasn't sure what I was supposed to say. And that was the I mean, it was fine. They weren't upset, like everything's fine. But that not engaging with someone when they're sharing something, man, I beat myself up over that one.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I've done the same thing. Don't beat yourself up.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

It's totally the wrong thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

I think it's our yeah, it's just human nature. It's just our instinct. Yeah. It's important, and honestly, I think it starts with something really simple that we've somehow made really complicated, just being present with people in their pain without trying to fix it.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

This, okay, everyone, this is coming from a man who jumps on things. The king of trying to fix everything.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Thanks for keeping me on. You're absolutely right. And after 27 and a half years of marriage, I feel like I'm getting better at that.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

You know, to just listen and not try to fix something unless I ask for it.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

But it's me shoving that down every time you share something with me. And why don't you just do this, this, and this? I mean, because we are terrible about this, um, you know, especially in the church. Someone shares something hard, and within about 30 seconds we're reaching for a Bible verse or a silver lining or this, you know, three-step solution. And I get it. I mean, it comes from a good place. We love people, we want them to feel better, but what that communicates, even unintentionally, is that your pain makes me feel uncomfortable and I need to resolve it as quickly as possible. And that's not safety, that's just religious efficiency. Ouch. Uh-huh. I mean, look at Job's friends. They actually did something right, and I don't get to say this very often uh about Job's friends, but when they first showed up and they saw how wrecked he was, they just sat with him on the ground for seven days and didn't say a word. I mean, that's ministry. That's but then it all went sideways when they finally opened their mouths. But those first seven days, that's what a safe person looks like.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah, that's something the Lord's been teaching me. Just keep your mouth shut, just listen, just listen and be present.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah. So I mean, there's a few things um that I think the church could get could get better at. I mean, I first I think we just need to normalize struggle from the top down. I mean, so if the pastor only ever talks about victory and breakthrough and never about his own hard stuff, I mean, then the whole the culture of the whole church follows that. So people take their cues from the front. And if leadership's honest, it's gonna give everyone else permission to be honest. So if leadership performs, though, on the other hand, then everybody performs.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Amen. And I think that it kind of gets into that prosperity gospel that has infected the church, where we think everything, especially in America, should be on the up and up. If we are godly, we should be healthy and wealthy and blessed. And, you know, I'm gonna name it and claim it, which is nonsense if you read scripture, because you see that life is about suffering. Yeah. Jesus said, You will have tribulation. Like it's gonna get hard. So why would you hide that? Why would you pretend, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

I think we also just have to get better, just asking good questions and then sitting with them, just being quiet. How are you really doing? You know, what's uh that been like for you, and then actually listening to the answer instead of loading up our response while they're still talking. And that's that's a skill, by the way. You know, it doesn't come naturally to most of us, it's but it's worth developing. Um I think this is, I'd say thirdly, you know, this is uh probably the most practical thing is that we need people in our churches who are intentionally trained to listen well. You know, not every conversation needs a counselor, but every single church needs people who know how to hold somebody's story with care, you know, who aren't gonna flinch, who aren't gonna gossip, who aren't gonna, you know, just jump to fix it, just witness what's going on. And sometimes the most healing thing in the world is just to have someone look at you in the eye and and say, I hear you. I mean, because that's real and and you're not alone. You know, underneath it all, I'd say the whole thing has to be rooted though in the gospel. Um the reason that we can be safe for each other is because Jesus has already been safe for us. He knows, um, he already knows the the worst of it, and he's not going anywhere. And and here's what makes that so amazing. I mean, this isn't a God who's watching our suffering from a comfortable distance. It's Hebrews that tells us that he was tempted in every way that we've been tempted, every way. And he knows what it feels like to be human in a broken world. I mean, he suffered deeply, and and then he went to the cross and took the full weight of our sin and and the complete wrath of God on himself, so that nothing, not our darkest moment, not our worst secret, not our deepest shame could ever separate us from him. And that's not a God that you have to perform for. That's a God that you can be honest with. And and when that's actually the culture of our church, not just the theology on paper, but the lived reality, it changes everything. Because people stop performing because they don't have to anymore. And and that's when the real stuff starts coming out, and that's when real healing's gonna start happening.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, I love that. If you yeah, I love the book of Hebrews, it's my favorite. Um because you see Christ is the friend of sinners, Christ is our sympathetic high priest who came to help us when we are tempted and when we're suffering, you know. But something I do see sometimes in churches, they tend to go to the opposite extreme where you almost celebrate our messiness. Like I'm a hot mess and so are you, like, yay, that's something to be excited about.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

We have our fire insurance and we're covered.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, where it's we want to be honest and bring all that stuff out into the light for the purpose of change. The okay, this is a a quote from a Paul David Tripp book, Instrument in the Redeemer's Hands, but he says, I might, I might butcher the quote, but basically the agenda of grace is always change. You know, like it's not just sitting in your mask and celebrating it and be like, you know, I'm wretched and so are you, but Jesus loves us. It's man, getting it out into the open, being honest about your struggles, but saying, God's grace can transform me. I don't have to stay here. You know, He can bring change.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah.

How To Share Without Trauma Dumping

SPEAKER_00 30:45

I like that. Well, let's let's get practical for a second. Because I know someone's listening right now thinking, that's great, but how do I actually do this without completely falling apart or um it's terrifying, it can be. Yeah, I mean they don't want to accidentally trauma dump on on a stranger at church. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

So here's a here's a few ideas that maybe you and I can just trade off on these that we came up with.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Well, you start.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Okay, this is not an exhaustive list, but uh be prayerful about it. Talk to God, even if it's hard. Um, remember God is for you, not against you. So, especially for people who have experienced trauma, that can feel very isolating and make you feel very separated from God. So the goal of you know, healing from trauma is working your way back to the Lord. I mean, he's right there with the open arms, but um, being able to engage in worship again. And even the most, you know, broken whispered prayer, you hardly have the words, you don't even know what to say. That's okay. Just just talk to the Lord, pray, tell him you're afraid, you're afraid to share this, but you know you need to. You know, give me the courage, bring someone into my life I can talk to, you know, start with prayer. That's the first thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

That's so good. Well, I would say the the next one would be then is to find, you know, mature friends or people in the body of Christ, people you can trust who can keep things confidential, people who are gonna listen well. And I would point out the same gender as you, because sharing your deepest pain with someone, it creates real intimacy. And there's a you know, that's a door that you don't want to accidentally open with someone of the opposite sex.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Yeah. When you find someone or a group of people, let them know you aren't necessarily looking for answers at this point in time. You just need a friend who will listen and who will pray with you for now. And you know, as you start this journey, things come to light where you realize, oh yeah, that is a point where I need healing. Maybe I do need some wise counsel, things I can do. But at least in the beginning, you just need someone who will listen.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Um, I would say also start slow. You know, don't just unload your whole life on someone, but tell a little bit of your story at a time. Um I there was uh you know, there's been people over the years that uh it's their first week at church and and uh you just sit down with them for an hour after the service and they just tell you their entire life story, and it's just too much to to even be able to, you know, sure you're listening and it's great and all, but if they just shared uh a little bit with you, it's it's much easier to to process, to to um to pray through and and uh to to be there for them. So start slow.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, and another it's good for the the person telling the story too, um, because sharing your painful experiences can be really hard. Emotional work is the hardest work, you know. So you need to take time to reflect and pray as you're sharing with people and ask yourself, how is the experience of sharing this impacting me? Do I need to step back a little bit? You know, how am I doing with this? What is the Lord showing me through this process? Um, and ask the Lord to give you sight of your own heart.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

And I think something that's helped me too is to uh write it down. You might find it helpful to journal or or just to jot things down on a on a piece of paper, you know, and just uh there's something about that process that's very, very good to just get it down in writing.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah. Um expect that it could be hard, right? You may feel distressed or tired if you know if you're revisiting you know hard parts of your life, you may feel those feelings again. That's completely normal. Um it's not a reason to panic or freak out, but you may need to slow down and back off a little bit. You may need to, you know, different things. So expect it may not be easy. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Well, and I think lastly, if you feel it would be helpful, I want to encourage you to find a trained biblical counselor to meet with. There's a website, uh, ChristianCounseling.com. It's a great place to start. They have listings of counselors in your area and uh highly recommend that, or or talking to somebody at your church about it, finding out if there's somebody that's you know a certified counselor that could um kind of listen and and uh and help you with uh with what the Bible says and and uh how God wants to to work in that area.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah. Hey, this is um totally off the cuff, unscripted. But do you think before we do the outro, can we take a minute to pray? Ooh. And just pray over the listeners. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Go for it.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah, throw it back at me.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Just like I do when somebody comes up to me as Pastor Rich at the church to I think we should do this. And I always say, that's a great idea. You should do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

You go ahead and do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Let's see where their their heart is. Yeah.

A Prayer For Courage

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Okay, let's pray.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Lord God, uh, we just praise you and thank you because you are the God of all comfort, your word says. You are compassionate, you are loving. And Jesus, we know that you are a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, that you know what pain is, you know everything we've experienced, you experienced, and you did it so that we could freely come to God and be restored as part of your family. And Lord, I just praise you because your word says that your plan is to make us perfectly, you know, holy and righteous and healed, and that you don't give up. That's something you're gonna keep working on until we get there. It's a journey and it takes a whole life, you know, a whole lifetime, but you're faithful and you will never cast out those who come to you, Lord Jesus. So God, I just pray over the listeners right now. Whoever's listening to this, and maybe it resonates with them. Maybe it really pierced them to the heart, and they realize there are things I need to share. There's things that have been festering inside me, causing pain and grief and fear. I pray you would give that person, Father, the courage to open up, to start talking about what they've been hiding. Yes, sir. And Father, please raise up loving and kind brothers or sisters in Christ who can be there for them to listen. We pray for your protection over these precious people that they would open up, bring these things into the light, and start to heal, Lord. Thank you, Jesus. You are the great physician. You bring healing to the soul like no other. We pray in your name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Amen. Well, thanks for hanging out with us today, everyone. Seriously, it's been uh so cool to watch what God's been doing through this podcast. Um, people all over the world are listening, which still kind of blows my mind.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Yeah, we um we want to give a special shout out to our listeners in the Netherlands and Japan, as well as Texas, New Jersey, Indiana, all over the place. We love it that you're joining us. We would love to hear from you. If you haven't checked out our website yet, go to www.religionsucks.co. Send us an email, send us your questions, tell us what you would like to hear in future episodes, whatever you want. We'll get back to you.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Love it. And hey, do us a favor, tell a friend about the show. If it's been helpful to you, chances are it'll be helpful to someone you know. We'll be back soon with more honest conversations about faith.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Yeah, we have some good interviews coming up soon. I'm excited about you.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Until then, be kind yourself, be honest with someone you trust, and remember, Jesus already knows and he's not going anywhere.