Is Jesus Enough When Life Hurts

Our friend Carol Ortiz joins us to unpack what “identity in Christ” actually means in real life. We talk about her first wake-up call to God through a recurring dream, then ground the conversation in Scripture, especially 2 Corinthians 5:17 and the truth that you are a new creation, not a cleaned-up version of your old self. From there, we get painfully practical about identity amnesia, why one negative comment can shake us, and how borrowed spirituality leads to exhaustion and shallow change.

We also spend time in Psalm 23 and what it looks like to say, with your whole life, “The Lord is my shepherd.” That surrender touches everything: how men carry provider pressure, how women can turn helping or motherhood into identity, how to grieve a season cleanly, and how God can meet you even in the presence of your past. We close with why church community matters, how your thought life reveals what you’re living from, and why remembering you’re a recipient of grace makes you a giver of grace.

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Transcript

Podcast Rebrand And Topic Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You may have noticed something strange. We recently decided to change the name of the podcast. No longer religion sucks. We loved that name, but it was a little confusing for people. So now this is the Freed Indeed podcast. Everything remains the same, same great content, compelling interviews, good news of God's love and grace. It's just under a different name. Okay, let's get to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Like we're sitting at the people in the presence of our enemies, in the presence of your past, that you were hurt, that you were tormented, that you were, you know, fill in the blank. God is able. You fix your identity in Christ, and He will fix the rest. And the thing, maybe then, what we need to surrender to Him is if we trust that or not.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Case in point. Are you really gonna hear that? I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

It's there. It's there's no editing that out.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Today, we have with us in the studio a near and dear friend, Carol Ortiz. Carol and her husband Fernando planted Mile High Calvary in Highlands Ranch, Colorado in 2009. Was it? Yep. Yep. Okay. Wow. And they've spent the past 17 years ministering to people, loving them, helping them uh to know Jesus. So welcome, Carol. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

So good to have you.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Well, today's topic is identity, and specifically the way we as followers of Christ know exactly where our worth comes from in our heads, and then spend the rest of our lives looking everywhere else for it. It's a very impressive system that we built. Um, someone said it to me once, and it kind of wrecked me when they said that you're seeking validation from a world that crucified a perfect man. So that's what we're talking about today.

Dreams That Sparked Carol’s Faith

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Well, Carol, we ask every guest the same first question. Um what is your earliest memory of God or your earliest experience with religion?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Okay. I'm so excited that that's a question because it's so cool. So I didn't grow up knowing the Lord. God was not in our house in any way, shape, or form. And so I'm I know though, regardless, I know that God had his hand on certain things before I came to know him, but I didn't I didn't know that or see that then. So for me, the first realization or experience that I had with God was through dreams. And I know it's so cool. Like God to me came out of nowhere. I mean, it was a result of my family starting to pray over me and pray for me, but I didn't know that. So um, in a dream, I had this repeatedly, and it was, I didn't see anything, nothing was visual, it was just all black, but I just kept hearing a voice saying, Who is this Jesus? Over and over again. That's all the dream was. And it truly like, I would wake up and be like, Who is this Jesus? Like, that's a great question. I know. So that is my first um memory of God, you know, from you at that point. I was 18. I was 18. I was um a freshman in in college.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

That's incredible. Yeah. How God proves wild. I know, out of nowhere. I didn't, I mean, not that anybody does, but I literally had no reason. There was nothing that I was doing. I wasn't asking for it, I wasn't like seeking nothing. Like he just was like, Okay, it's my time and I'm sovereign and I love you, and I'm gonna come and get you.

New Creation Identity In Christ

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Could you give us a quick biblical definition of identity or understanding of identity? Like, as followers of Christ, what does the Bible say about who we are?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

It's it's actually beautiful because this is where we get all of our freedom. Um, the verse that comes to my mind with um, you know, a biblical identity um is coming from 2 Corinthians 5, 17, um, which says, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come, and the old has gone, the new is here. And so biblically, literally, when we give our life to God, we are a new creation. Brand new, not cleaned up, not better than we used to be, we're completely new. And that means we have a completely new identity. Um, the old is absolutely gone. There's nothing left of it, like by definition. So if we can like literally understand that, if we can literally get behind that and understand I, everything that I was, and I'm not even just talking about, oh, my sinful past, the things that weigh me down, the things that I'm ashamed of, absolutely, those are gone. But that's just the beginning. You're you are not at all who you were. You are a new creation, which gives you a completely new identity that we either walk in or we don't. And I I really think that our identity, when we um when we walk in it, which I think we do ebb and flow, but when we walk in it um is so foundational to the fruit of our lives, um to the struggles versus victories that we have, really do hinge on the reality that we set on this new identity and if it's enough. You know, because I mean, if we're talking about, you know, what is the definition of identity in Christ? Because it gets thrown around a lot. And I think that people assume that if you know that you have an identity in Christ, that that's all you need to know and that fixes that. But knowing that you need to have your identity in Christ is not the same as walking with your identity in Christ. Yeah. You know, like it, it's it's like um somebody who is royal, you know, and and they, you know, their parents are the king and queen, they might know it, but knowing it doesn't give them any of the benefits or or perks that come along with being royal. They have to walk in that, you know, and and I mean, that's all benefit, right? I mean, I guess there's downsides to that, but you know, you've got the money, you've got the name, you've got the prestige. So of course you're gonna walk in that identity, you know, that that's great. But when we identify with a suffering savior, sometimes we want to pull back and and not walk in that. So that's good. Um, so to that, that to me, like if we're, you know, we want to set the the playing field and define terms, you know, our identity is that we have an absolutely new creation. So we can't hold on at all to the past or to our um non-born-again self. We are a new creation in Christ Jesus. And so what that looks like is we are his, we're his children. We are a child of God. That is our identity for those who have confessed Christ as Savior. So for those who have confessed Christ as Savior, we get the benefit of the new identity of being a child of God. Um, and that's it. It's so simple that I think sometimes we want to look for something that's more difficult. You know, you think, well, how does that affect my daily life? Sure, I'm a child of God. That's great, you know. Um, but being a child of God, it changes everything. It means everything in our walk with the Lord. And I think it's when we forget that, I think that's where we see a lot of struggles and a lot of why can't I overcome this sin? Um, I'm not changing from the inside out. It's because we're not walking as new creations, we're not walking as children of God.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah. So I mean, you would think knowing whose we are would just settle things once and for all, right? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

The God of the universe calls you his own, so that should probably win. So why does one bad Instagram comment or a rough monda like a rough Monday undo all that for us?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

I I think because we're as forgetful as the Israelites, you know, like we read through the Old Testament and we we we slam them. You know, we're like, y'all, the sea was just parted. Yeah, come on now, you know, but we we do it every day with even smaller things. I mean, they had literal life challenging things happening with them in the desert. And we've got a negative comment on Instagram, or, you know, a bad day at work, or our kids just, you know, are doing this and that, or they have unfruitful lives, and we're just rocked. You know, we just because we're so forgetful, we forget. Number one, or number two, it's not enough. We think, yeah, I'm a child of God, and I just keep moving on with my life because we don't really understand what it means, you know, or or we don't want it to be enough. We want our lives to belong to ourselves. And so we'll put in our back pocket, yes, I'm a child of God, but maybe I'm his adult child. Meaning I pay the rent, I get my job, I do this, I do that. Right, right. But you're you're my father, but I'm an adult. And so I'm gonna handle my life, but yes, I'm your child. And that's not like God doesn't have adult children. That's not how this works. No, that's not how this works. We are his completely dependent children who can who depend on him for everything.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

That's why he went a step further by calling us sheep.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Right. Yes.

Identity Amnesia And Daily Triggers

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Just in case we got just in case we think we're smart and qualified to do anything at all. So yeah, I I think I think we constantly live in um identity amnesia, yeah, as Paul Tripp mentions um often and in a lot of his his his writings um to the church, just talking about identity amnesia, and and we are we are very, very guilty of it. And I think for seasons of of my Christian life, you know, it's I go through identity amnesia. But then there's the Lord, He brings things in our lives to put us back in full dependence on Him.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

And I wonder sometimes, you know, you hear about the world, the flesh, and the devil in a believer's life. Like I feel like the world, our own flesh, and the devil are constantly lying to us about who we are, you know, giving us the wrong messages. And we listen to those, right, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And on on two ends of the spectrum, too, the lie of you're not enough.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

And then on the other side is you've got this. You're fine. You're totally enough. Everyone should be like you. You know, either side is a lie. Um yeah, and and the answer and solution to it all is you are a child of God. And and that is a big deal. Like, think about it. God is a God of the universe, like the creator of everything. Anything that exists does not exist outside of his hand, and you are his kid. That that can mean everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

It should be so humbling, just our smallness, you know, before God. It should put the fear of God in us kind of and just the depth of his incredible love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Or you could squander the spiritual inheritance and and uh be left with nothing. So well, Carol, you've

Borrowed Faith And Why It Fails

SPEAKER_00 12:15

been in ministry for a long time. You've seen a lot of people up close, which honestly sounds wonderful and and uh terrifying at the same time. Well, how does this identity thing actually show up? Like, what does it look like when someone's lost the plot on who they are, as they say?

SPEAKER_01 12:35

So lost the plot, we can start from there. Um so identity lived out. There's there's no behavior or thought process that we do apart from identity. Um, because we're we're identifying as something. Nobody is neutral. And so to say that um, well, because my identity is not in Christ, I just I'm just living my life, you know, in the void, you're not. You're living in some kind of identity, whether it's I am, you know, a mother and that is my identity, or I am a successful career person, that is my identity. So we're all always living out of an identity. We're deceiving ourselves if we think that we're not. And so every thought process, every behavior comes from some kind of identity. And so, um, but if we stick to, you know, thinking about whether our identity is in Christ or not, what it looks like when our identity is not in Christ, um, and and this is these are these were sad to me. Um, I just read actually yesterday in 1 Samuel 12, 19, where Saul says to Samuel, pray to the Lord your God for us, or we will die. They all said to Samuel, for we have added to our sins by asking for a king. And so Israel had asked for a king, and the Lord told Samuel, give them what they want. They're not rejecting you, they're rejecting me. And so, you know, they go through the process, they pick out Saul, um, and this is what they say after the fact, right? So they got what they wanted, but after the fact, they're like, you know, um, they they come to their religious leader and they tell the religious leader, pray to the Lord your God. So that's no longer our God. No, he's not their God. So I think they are comfortable enough with acknowledging God and they understand that he's the God of Israel, but he's the religious leader's God. So anything spiritual, like we'll let the spiritual people handle that. Like you pray to your God, and we'll take the benefits of your identity, right? Like, so Samuel was identified in God, but Israel was like, well, we don't want to be identified in God. We still want to get our own way. We did our own thing, we made our own request, and now that we got our way, you go ahead and bring God back into the picture and I'll all kind of ride that wave. I'll, you know, I'll take the wake of that wave.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

And so it's like a parent when one of the kids screws up and we say, Your daughter just did honey. It's like I I'm identifying her as your daughter in this. For sure. But when she did something great, you see what my daughter just did?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

All me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Your God.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Right? Totally. So, and then it and then it, you know, even makes me think of how sad it is when, you know, the Lord delivers Israel and they end up on the other side. And, you know, Moses is at the mountain and God is set apart and holy, and it kind of freaks everybody out. And so the Israelites tell Moses, you talk to God. Yeah. Like you be the one to talk to God. We're gonna hang out down here, you know, everything's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

And as long as it doesn't take too long.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, really, yeah. Uh 40 days. Right. 39 days. After 39 days, we're popping out cows from the from the flames. Um, but again, like this example of let the religious leaders be the ones that identify. But we we just want to ride the wake of that benefit.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

And honestly, I feel like that is a lot of the church today. So much of the church today. You know, I'll come to church once or twice a month. Like when it's convenient for me, if it's my schedule. And when I have a problem, I will ask you to pray for me. You know, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

You carry the spiritual weight and I'll I'll ride the benefits. Yeah. And when the benefits aren't there, then I'll hang back and wait for them. And that's so many of us, you know, I'm guilty of that too. So so many of us would call that being a Christian, but that is not walking in your new identity. That's allowing somebody else to walk in that identify and in that identity, and then you just benefiting from their um personal time with the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And um, and so in and it just reflects in so many ways of their lives, right? So if God is somebody else's God and they go and they study and they prepare something for me, and they come back and they tell me, you know, i.e., you know, don't have sex outside of marriage or have a quiet time every day, right? All I'm doing is I'm trying to absorb these instructions, but I'm not seeing any fruit in my life. I'm not seeing victory over sin. I'm still struggling with the things that come up again and again and again. And it's because I'm trying to benefit from someone else's identity instead of having my own identity in Christ. And so what that looks like is just, it's just sad. It's failure after failure. And it's why a lot of people end up walking away.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Because walking somebody else's identity is never life-changing. You're always imitating and it you don't have the strength and the power to do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

It's like using AI to do your schoolwork, you know. It's like using I'm just taking the shortcuts, you're benefiting from this.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

It's the easy button. Consolidation. It doesn't have a learning thing. No, it doesn't change you. And so, I mean, if anybody is hearing this and listening to this, if if the struggle is lack of victory, if the struggle is I am doing X, Y, and Z, I'm doing what they're telling me to do. I, I, I've I've sat in and I've listened to people, I've confessed what I'm doing, and I do what they tell me to do, and I cannot see victory over this, it is an identity problem. It's not an action problem, it's an identity problem. And if you're living out of someone else's identity with Christ, you are never going to see lasting fruit. You're gonna be exhausted. It the problem is not that God is not faithful, the problem is that you are not his child. You're not acting like his child.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Like hands down. So that's what it looks like when you're not living in the identity of Christ. But when you are living in the identity of Christ, that this is where real change happens. This is where the rubber meets the road and you are actually able to, you know, you're walking in the spirit. And so all of the fruit of the spirit is present and able to be present regardless of your circumstances, which sounds unbelievable. You know, people are like, oh, come on, that's for the religious leaders, right? No, though that is for anyone who is walking in their identity as a child of God. Right. It's the same spirit, which means it's the same fruit, and we all have the capability to bear that kind of fruit.

Psalm 23 And God As Shepherd

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And so um passages that like are just phenomenal about have walking in and what it looks like when your identity is in Christ is Psalm 23. Psalm 23 is so, so amazing. Um, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna read it. So the Lord is my shepherd. I have all that I need. He lets me rest in green meadows, he leads me beside peaceful streams, he renews my strength, he guides me along right paths, bringing honor to his name. Even when I walk through the darkest valley, I will not be afraid, for you are close behind me. Your rod and your staff protect and comfort me. You prepare a feast for me in the presence of my enemies. You honor me by anointing my head with oil, my cup overflows with blessings. Surely your goodness and unfailing love will pursue me all the days of my life, and I will live in the house of the Lord forever. And what this has to do with somebody walking in identity in Christ, which is David, you know, as the author of this psalm, is in verse one the Lord is my shepherd. So this goes beyond theology of we know that God is the shepherd or he is a shepherd, you know, but those are those identify, but they're not possessive. David sets this psalm with who he is and God by saying that he is my shepherd. So what does it look like when God is my shepherd? He's not your shepherd, he's not my pastor's shepherd, he's not, he's my shepherd. So what does that look like when God is mine and I am his? Well, I have all that I need. I mean, that's amazing. I have all that I need because he is mine. He lets me rest. How many of us are exhausted? Right? He leads me beside peaceful streams, how many of us are in chaos? He renews my strength. Are you feeling weak? He guides me along right paths. My shepherd leads me where I need to go, bringing honor to his name. How cool we get to be a vessel that brings honor to God, even though I walk through the darkest valley. Okay, so not even situations that are great and phenomenal and everything's going great, but even when we are going through it, when he is my shepherd, we don't have to be afraid because he's close behind us. His rod and his staff, they protect us, they comfort us. He prepares a feast for us in the presence of our enemies. You get that. When you've walked with the Lord long enough, you get what it means to be in the presence of your enemies. How about sitting down and feasting? That's incredible. Nobody else gets that, you know? It's so good. My cup overflows with blessings when he is my shepherd. Surely your goodness and unfailing love will pursue me all the days of my life, and I will live in the house of the Lord forever. Dwelling in In the presence of God when you know who you are. This comes when you know who you are. He is my shepherd. That goes beyond study, right? That goes beyond theology. It's good theology to say that Jesus is a shepherd. You know, like that's biblical. We can all say that, but it changes your life and the way that you walk when you understand that He is my shepherd.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

How much, excuse me, do you think surrender plays into that? Oh my gosh. Which Jesus tells us a wonderful parable about that and having to go after the lost sheep. Um Yeah. So ownership of your identity in Christ, I feel like goes hand in hand with complete surrender. Like Paul always says, I'm a bondservant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

I'm his slave. Right. Well, it's, you know, when Jesus, right before he ascended, he told the disciples, all authority in heaven and in earth has been given to me. Um and then that's when he goes and gives the Great Commission. But if you stop there and think it's true, right? Everything that Jesus said is true. So literally all authority on heaven and on earth has been given to him, but it doesn't mean that we're surrendered to it.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

You know, and so when we walk and surrender to the authority of Jesus over everything on heaven and earth, there's nothing in your life that should not be surrendered to the authority of Jesus. And when it is, that I think that's only when we can live in our identity. I mean, that's from a place of surrender where David is able to say the Lord is my shepherd. You know, when when you are not able to say the Lord is my shepherd because you are your own shepherd, or, you know, going back to being I am an adult child of God, that is the opposite of surrender. That's holding on to my authority.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

And even the demons believe that all authority and power have been given to Jesus, but they're not surrendered. They're not surrendered to him.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Yeah. And honestly, people think that sounds unappealing, but that's walking in the spirit. That's where you get fullness of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

And I just think if if that doesn't sound appealing, you know, read back through Psalm 23. What if that does not sound appealing?

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah. So, okay, you've been doing women's ministry specifically for decades.

Gender Traps And Clean Grief

SPEAKER_02 24:10

And you dare men's. Yes, you have to. I'll ask each of you, how do you see identity issues playing out for women specifically or men specifically? Like where are those pitfalls that we tend to walk in instead of who we are in Christ?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

I think the the adult child thing with guys, especially, you know, when we turn 18, it's we're expected to, you know, be men and and uh be the providers, be the protectors, and and uh the the thought of you know needing anybody else to do that for your family, for your wife, for your whatever it is, is just it's uh it takes some humility, it takes uh where some God sometimes has to to break you of that in order to surrender to him, in order to to be your protector and your provider, and you know, knowing where the source of all that really comes from and the dependence on him for that is uh something that takes time. It takes, you know, to experience and and uh a lot of sometimes some pretty bad experiences to to get you to the point where you do um trust him and and rely on him for all that.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

So just asking from a woman's perspective, does fear play into that? Because I can't imagine carrying the weight of being provider for a family. I it would I would have to literally be on my knees all the time trying to stay in my identity in Christ because it seems so scary. Like, what if? You know, when you've got other people dependent on you, I just and maybe men don't handle it like that because they're men and they're wired differently, but I'm just I'm just curious, like, does fear play into that?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I mean, you just pull up your boots and I mean, but I think life brings you to that point where you're finally just how am I gonna pay the mortgage this month, or how am I gonna do this or that, you know? And I think God allows you to to come to that point in order to depend on him because we forget that it's all from him anyway.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah, and I think the flip side of that is pride. So when you're like, I am a pretty good provider, things are going well, and you know, we do have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

I'm doing well on my job, I worked hard and this and which yeah, that opens up a whole other can of worms here on the what I deserve because I work hard and this and that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Wow. So many cans of worms next week, huh? No to go right. We'll be back. Well, what about women?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Um women, I think we get our a false sense of identity by where we're able to help.

SPEAKER_04 26:44

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

You know, um, it's almost like if I'm not able to come alongside and help something, then I'm then I'm no one. I'm nothing. I have nothing to to offer. And so what that looks like in our home with our husband. Um, and so we try, you know, we're like my identity is to help you. And so if you don't let me help you, I'm nothing. And so maybe that's why we are we can be tempted to push and push and push and nag and nag um because that's that's the identity. So if you take that away, then you take me away and I'm not important, and then we get our feelings hurt because we want to be important to our husband. And same with our kids, you know, we um it's so easy to make your identity as a mom because it because it takes so much of your time.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

And so it's so easy to say, well, I'm helpful here. I'm I'm literally practically they need me. Right. Yeah, right. And so it's so easy for that to become your identity because there's quick reward. Yeah. Um, especially when they're younger, they're hungry and you feed them immediately. And so there's immediate reward. Like, look at what I did. I was able to meet that need. This must be who I am. And I that's the thing with identity, is it's sneaky. I don't think anybody goes out to say, I'm gonna switch my identity to mother now. That's what I'm gonna do. Because from the day that my kids were born, I thought, I'm I'm gonna nail this where other moms didn't know. Yeah, I'm like, where other moms have failed, I'm going to remind myself daily, these are not mine. These are not my kids, they are not my identity. And so if I just keep telling myself that, when they start to get their feet out the door, I'm gonna be light years ahead of where other people are because I've told myself and I know these truths. And I don't know, maybe it helped, but it still hurts. So that's a good segue.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

I was gonna ask, because you and I are in the same season of life right now. Always good to have a friend in the same season of life as you are. Um, how do you find this as a personal struggle for you right now?

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Well, it hurts so bad. I like I'm sorry to any woman who's ahead of me and maybe fell subject to my my thought process of being light years ahead. Um oh my word, it hurts. It hurts so bad. Um, but this is what I'm this is what I'm wrestling with the Lord lately.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Because you're your kids are you're almost an empty nester. Almost, yeah. So three, precious, wonderful adult children. Adult children, yes. And you and I both homeschooled. Right. So it was all consuming. All consuming educating. That was passionate. That was our calling, you know. And now that season is coming too in it from from the from the get-go.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

I yeah. So our son Ethan is 21, and I started homeschooling when he was in preschool. Yeah. And so our oldest, I'm sorry, our youngest Olivia is finishing up her senior year this year. And so it'll be 19 years of homeschooling. Well, it was the most beautiful thing that I was honored to be a part of. And that makes it really hard, you know, to let go of. And so this, this is what I, this is what I'm, I'm praying that God gives me the ability to do well is I want to grieve clean because I I think that understanding um that a season is over and that I can't get it back. Yes, I still have my kids. Yes, I'm still a part of their life. That's wonderful. That's incredible. I'm I'm so grateful for that. But it doesn't bring back a season. That season will never come again. And I think that it's important for me to um confess that grief to the Lord and allow him to carry me through that. And that's what I think clean grief is. Messy grief is when we mix um the grief because we're losing an idol or we have mistaken identity or, you know, identity amnesia that we've been talking about. That's when it becomes, you know, really messy grief. And I ebb and flow in that. I think I, you know, I'll do well and I'll just, you know, be grateful and thankful. But then I'll I'll notice that the grief becomes really messy and sloppy. And I'm like, okay, this isn't clean grief. I'm, I'm, this is mixed in with some kind of idolatry, or this is mixed in with some kind of identity crisis thing. Um, and and that's when I need to keep confessing it to the Lord and um and getting back on track. So I've I have, I'm such a visual person, and um, this has seemed to make sense to my mind and the way my mind works. But you know, when you go to a video arcade and you sit down for one of those racing games, and it's one that you can sit in and you use a steering wheel, you know, to like, but it always lets you pick your track.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

And um, and so I just think about okay, what if I could see identity as you sit down as a racer? That's your identity. I'm a racer, and so why am I here to race? So I get to pick my track in the arcade. We don't get to pick our track in life, but the tracks, you I always like to pick the tracks that had such varying portions. So you had like a wilderness, you know, jungle portion, and then like a water portion, and then it goes into this Arctic tundra portion or whatever, you know. And so the track goes through all these different, you know, portions of track. And I always liked those because I liked the scenery or whatever. But my identity is that I sit down as a racer. That's what I'm there for, and that's what I'm doing. And the track might change. I'm going through the jungle portion, you know, and I might love that portion. That might be my favorite portion, but I'm I'm a racer. That's who I am. And then the jungle comes to an end, and now I'm in the Arctic tundra, and I literally hate the Arctic tundra. I don't like to be cold. I'm cold all the time. I hate it. It doesn't matter what part of the track I'm on, I'm still a racer. That's such a good end and I'm still a racer. And and that's you know, the seasons of life, nothing lasts forever. Nothing. I mean, that's biblical. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words by no means will pass away. So heaven and earth will pass away. Nothing that we go through is going to stay as much as you love it or hate it. Um, a lot of the days in the days, and I'm sure that you will attest to this, I didn't love homeschooling, but a lot of the days I did, and looking back on it, I I just I loved that opportunity. I'm thankful for it. But regardless of how I feel about it, it it comes to an end. And so if if I am a driver, if I am a racer and that is what who I am, then when I go in and out of seasons, they are not who I am. Yeah. They are a track, they're a part of the track that I'm racing on.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

And it that's such a good reminder because when your circumstances just assault you, it's so good to remember this is not who I am. This is the circumstance God and his sovereignty is allowing me to be in for a purpose. But I'm not gonna let it define me. I'm not gonna let it consume me.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Right. You can't stop racing. You can't, you know, like you know, if I'm in the portion of the track that I love the most, I can't pull over because then I stop being a racer. And then I'm just an observer. You know, and and and the same with any any of the other ones, or you know, like you you can't bypass the Arctic Tundra portion. It's a part of it's a part of it. And and I think too, we think sometimes, oh, if this part of my life would just get out of the way, I could finish my race. This part of your life is your race. That is the point. It's it's the point. It's it's it's sanctifying you, it's growing you up, it's bringing you closer to the Lord. You're a vessel to maybe bless other people. So every part of the track is is sovereign. It's by his design, it's seasonal, but it never should define who we are. Who we are is a racer. And and it's just the same as a believer. So you, you know, carry that out as a believer. I am a child of God. Every portion of my walk is going to look different, but it cannot define who I am because it's going to end. And if it has defined who I am, if my identity is in that and then it ends, then I end.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

And that is when grief gets messy. Yeah. Because you're not just grieving, oh, this season was amazing. Now I'm saying goodbye to it. You're grieving the loss of self.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

And that's a huge red flag that your identity is not in Christ, but in who you are or the circumstances that are going on around. And, you know, that was that's another verse that comes to my mind as far as identity is um Ephesians 5, 1 through 2. And it says, be imitators of God as beloved children and walk in love, just as Jesus Christ also loved you and gave himself up for us and offering and as a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. Um, that we're imitators of God when our identity is in Christ, but that's as beloved children. And so we don't just look at the word and say, I need to do this, this, this, and this. We are beloved children. That a beloved child imitates their parents in a totally different way than someone who is white knuckling it and trying for approval or saying, Well, I know I need to do this to look like that. That is not being an imitator of God as a beloved child. Yeah, that's identity.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

A loved child, they know the love of the Father, and so they want to be just like him.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Right. Well, our motivation changes. Instead of doing what we do for his love or for the approval of others, or to protect our image, whatever, the motivation becomes because he loves me, I come after him. Because he loves me, I stay in him. And then our focus, too, is on him. I mean, we're just enamored by who he is. We talk more about him than ourselves. It, it just, and that's, I don't know, that just carries us through all of our seasons when our sights are on the Lord and not so much on ourselves. We forget self instead of becoming so self-consumed, you know, and that's that's where we see victory too, instead of why can't I? Why don't I? I need to look this way, I need to look that way. Like, let's just look at the Lord. It and there's just a passion there and a drive there that you can't muster up daily. That it just looks different. It just looks different. Yeah.

unknown 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

So don't white knuckle it. Calm down.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

My poor husband has been telling me that, like our whole marriage. You have to find a way to calm down. And that has to be an identity. Oh, it made me so calm. It makes me so calm. Calm down. That is the worst thing to do. I'm the calmest person I know.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

You seem a little upset. Why don't you just calm down?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

I haven't tried that one yet, have I?

SPEAKER_02 37:48

I think you tried that once in our marriage. And look at how fruitful it was. It was once because it works.

Unlearning The Past And Trusting Jesus

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Okay, so I think a lot of us get cues about our identity from things that have happened in our life, our past. Maybe the way we were raised. Yep. Positive or negative, you know. How do you think people can start to unlearn some of that?

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah. Well, I think like anything else, practice makes perfect, as perfect as we can be, this side of eternity. Um, so I I think in relearning, we have to renew our minds by the word of God, definitely. But again, and this sounds so cliche, and I think I think maybe where we get hung up is we don't trust and we don't believe, um, we are a new creation. And and I say that from a really difficult past. So I'm not saying that sitting here from, you know, a clean past, I know what it's like to be abused. Um, I know what a broken family looks like. And I I am here to testify that when God revealed himself to me and I gave myself to him, I did not have to revisit my past. You know, forgetting those things that are behind, we press on. We press on. And I I I please hear me. When we look at God, when we look at Jesus more than we look at anything else, our views change. It's supernatural because it doesn't make any sense. And I I I understand that there might be people listening to this that say, Well, you obviously have never been raped, or you have obviously never been, you know, whatever, fill in, fill in the blank of what's hurting them so badly. And all I have to say is it doesn't make sense because it's supernatural. It it is beyond what we can know or understand. And isn't that why we follow him? Because he is able to do the supernatural. Yes, life hurts. Life is hard. Um, there is so much pain, there are so many things that have been done against us or that we have done against others. That's really difficult to get over as well. But when we uh are completely submerged in the Lord and who he is and who he has made us, we we walk in that new creation. And and I do think, you know, the past comes up and the pain comes up. And I do still have to wrestle with that again. Um but I mean, going back to Psalm 23, he prepares a table for us in the presence of our enemies. What do we do at a table? We sit down, we slow down, we're not in a hurry. You know, like when the Israelites grabbed their food and booked it out of Egypt. Like we're sitting at a table in the presence of our enemies, in the presence of your past, that you were hurt, that you were tormented, that you were, you know, fill in the blank. God is able. You fix your identity in Christ and He will fix the rest. And and the thing, maybe then, what what we need to surrender to him is if we trust that or not. Is if we believe that or not, you know, and confess like like he did, like the man did in in the gospels, you know, I believe, help my unbelief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah. And I think it comes back to is Jesus enough?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Right. Because sometimes the answer honestly is no. You know, like if we're if we're honest with ourselves. And that's why the question that Jesus asked, um, oh, I can't remember who clarifying.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Who did he? The answer is yes, but we don't want to acknowledge that.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

We don't, but we say, No, we do, right. Sometimes it's no.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

I almost clutched my pearls there first.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

You were like, oh, can we get her off this program, please? The answer is, I mean, the biblical answer is yes. But our if we're honest with ourselves, our answer is no. And that's not why we keep chasing after all these other things, right? This way that I feel or can't heal that. I hear that, Lord, but I'm gonna go struggle on my own. Yeah. I hear that, Lord, but I'm gonna solve it, you know, by myself. Or I'm gonna hang on to that bitterness, or I'm gonna hang on to that pain. Or smoke this or whatever it is. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

There's a quote um from a author and pastor who is now with the Lord. He died a while back, but his name is Michael Wells, and he he it's one of my favorite quotes. He said, There's nothing that the nearness of Christ cannot overcome.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Right. And and the the issue is do you believe that or not? Yeah. Because I will confess that there are times in my life where I'm like, that's not good enough. I I want relief now. Yeah. Like I want something that I can grab onto now. Or, you know, in foolishness, I say, but God, you don't understand. And and even if I don't say that out loud or allow my mind to think that exact sentence, that's that's what I think. Yeah. That's what I think. When I don't live surrendered to the authority uh of Christ and and and surrender to my identity of look, you are a child of God. You are a child of God. It's a it's a big deal. It changes everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Always knowing the end result is what we don't believe, like what God could possibly do with something. So let me throw a hypothetical at you. You wake up tomorrow, somehow, this whole thing's just settled. You know, no performance, no striving, no comparing yourself to anyone else. Your worth is in Christ, you know, full stop. What changes? You know, what does your day actually look like?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Well, I mean, that's what it looks like to walk in communion with God. You know, think about like Adam and Eve before the fall. And obviously, you're not going to be perfect because we just can't achieve that, this side of heaven, unfortunately. But that is it. Like that's what we're all striving to attain in the here and now. You know, past forgiven, we're good to go. Future secured, we're great to go. The here and now, when our identity is. In Christ, when we're not white knuckling it, um, we live in peace with the relationships that are in our lives. You know, as a wife, I can enjoy my husband instead of put him on some, you know, pedestal or as some idol that he cannot fulfill. And so your marriage looks better. Uh, you're not carrying your kid. Put, I mean, that that is a huge pressure sometimes that women we put on our children that they're our idols. And that's we are heavy for our kids to carry. You know, we they they can't be that, they can't supply that identity for us. It's really not fair for us to ask them to do that. And so it when my identity is in Christ and that's settled for my day, we'll just take this one day at a time. Um, our our relationships with our kids look so much better. I'm carrying the yoke that Christ has told me to carry, and I'm not carrying what I'm not supposed to with that. Um, my communion with him is sweet.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Just think about how much we wouldn't care what people thought of us. Absolutely. Like one speck. No. Can you imagine living a day where not for one nanosecond you cared what anyone thought of you?

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Right. And then and then it gives us clear sight to see too, because I think we're blind to, oh my my husband's not my idol, my kids aren't my idol. I don't care what people think of me, like we're blind. But when we walk in our identity with Christ and we're just nailing it for a day, our eyes are open to that, the log, you know, that's in our eye. And we we say, oh my goodness, my I have made my husband an idol. And no wonder why he feels, you know, burdened. And, you know, I care way too much about what people think of me. Um, no wonder why I feel so burdened, you know. The fear of man is a snare to me, and I I've been blind to it this whole time. So it just, yeah, I I truly believe, again, that when we walk in our identity as a child of God, it is so foundational to many, many of the um shortcomings and struggles that we are battling through. That if we could fix identity, that so many things would would fall into place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

If I didn't care what people thought, I'd probably bust out the rayon shirt and bolo tie and overalls again. And I'd be so happy. So I'll pray about that.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Aaron Powell I'm grateful for that fear in you.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Well, speaking of getting practical, I think you know, we can all agree that knowing who we are in Christ is the answer, uh, but knowing and actually living it are two different things.

Community Thought Life And Grace

SPEAKER_00 46:36

And uh, as most of us have discovered the hard way. So let's talk about the body of Christ. Um, you know, what role does community play in keeping us grounded in it grounded in our identity? Because I feel like you know, we were not designed to figure this out on our low on our on our own. Um so what encouragement would you offer to a listener who hasn't been to a church in a while, or maybe they're a casual attender, but they need to go deeper into community?

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Um well, the cool thing is that is what the community has to offer us, which I think is why community is so under fire. Um, you know, social media makes us loners and we deceive ourselves into thinking I'm not alone. I I I have contact to a thousand followers or, you know, I'm following a thousand people. I'm not alone. Right. But um the body of Christ is meant to be intertwined. We lean on one another's um presence and gifts, and um, you know, we we literally we we can't we can't survive um apart from each other. And Proverbs 18:1 says, a man who isolates himself seeks his own desire, he rages against all wise judgment. And and so that I mean that's a huge red flag. And let I I want to define this because I think people say, Well, I have friends, I'm not isolated, but who like actually knows you? Who knows you well enough to say even even I know your countenance and I can see that it's down who knows you well enough for that? And I think that in the body of Christ, those numbers dwindle. I think we are allowing fewer and fewer people into our lives in that in that kind of sense. Somebody who's able to say, I know your behavior normally, and this is different, and I've invested in you enough to now say what's going on. You don't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

You trust with the real answer.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Yeah, exactly. Someone who loves you enough to speak the truth, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Even if it's not what you want to hear. Absolutely, right. And it's, you know, you you can grow, obviously, and and I think we're called to have that intimate and alone time with God. But when other voices come into our lives and challenge us and say, you didn't represent the Lord very well just now, or I've really noticed that it it it there's fruit in your life that looks like your husband's an idol to you. Um the humility that that comes with that, like the embarrassment, you know, it kind of pricks your, it pricks your pride, it hurts. Those are the times that you actually grow really uh exponentially.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Well, and God has called us to be that for others, too. And that that's not a casual church attender, you know. That's right, and not just Sunday morning, but like getting into people's lives, letting them get into yours.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

And allow the Lord to pull the plank out of our own eye before we go after the speck in our brothers or sisters, right? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

So okay, we're ra getting towards the end here, but how do you think our thought life plays into this as far as identity?

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Huge. Huge because our thought life, I think we can we can see how well we are walking in the spirit through our thought life because the fruit of the spirit is self-control. And you know, you hear people say, take captive every thought, which is kind of there's a larger context going on in that scripture, but it's still true. Like, you know, we need to take captive every thought. But a lot of times I think that I'm like, I don't want to, I want to finish this thought because it justifies me or it finishes what I'm thinking, or you know, whatever. Um, and so it's a lack of self-control. Even though no one can hear my thoughts, it's still an issue of self-control. Because if I am unable to say, nope, I'm putting a break on before I finish this sentence in my brain, then I lack self-control. And if I lack self-control, I cannot hide from the fact that I am not walking in the spirit. I'm walking in the flesh.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

That reminds me of Romans 12, too. You know, don't be conformed to this world, but you know, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. It Paul wasn't saying try harder.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

You know, to he said renew your mind, which is just a fancy way of saying, you know, stop feeding your soul junk. What you give your attention to definitely shapes what you believe about yourself. And honestly, I mean the fastest path to settled identity is getting your eyes off of yourself entirely and back on Christ.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Um I mean, because then your your worth gets anchored to his and he's not going anywhere, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Right. He's the only thing that's not going anywhere. And so that's why it's so important that our identity be in him.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Because that racetrack is literally going to change our entire life. Our entire life. And we're gonna mess up. We're gonna mess up. We are going to get into the rut of something, you know, the older that you get, the longer seasons are. You know, you work for a company for decades, you're you, you know, you raise kids for 20, 25 years before everybody's out of the house. These are long-term things that you set into. And so we're gonna fail. But God is so good because the red flag is when those seasons start to end, if we feel like we are ending, then our identity is in something that's not eternal, which is the Lord and the Lord alone. And so fine, you messed up, your identity is in something else. Just realign yourself with the Lord, get yourself back on track.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

Receive his grace upon you.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Yeah, receive his grace, which is, by the way, part of our identity. It doesn't change the fact that you are still gonna struggle with sin, but what's changed is that you receive your recipient of the grace of God. And what's what stinks is that when we forget I'm a sinner, you know, then we stop asking for grace.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

It kind of surprises us when we sin. Or if somebody comes to us talking about being in community, somebody comes to us and says, Hey, I've seen this. We are we we've forgotten who we are, and we're like, I'm not a sinner. What are you talking about? Yes, you are. And the the amazing and beautiful part is that if we remember that we're a sinner, we don't live in condemnation, we live in grace. So it's only when we remember that we're a sinner can we um face and be brave enough to face our sin and then receive grace. And, you know, it's it's said in common, but it but it needs to be resurfaced as a big deal that when you are a recipient of grace, you are a giver of grace. You're a giver. If if you forget that you're a sinner, you know, going back to husband and wife relationships, if I forget that that I'm a sinner and I forget how desperate I am for the grace of God, and my husband dares to sin, I'm less likely to give him grace because I have forgotten how much I receive grace. And again, it all goes back to identity. If I have forgotten that, then I'm gonna be less to extend that. And again, that affects relationships on all aspects.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Well, and then you we don't we aren't continually going to the fountain of grace because we're desperate for it. Right. You know what I mean? Right. You don't go after what you don't live out of that wellspring. Right. We just live out of our flesh. Well, any final thoughts you would want to give our listeners? Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Um, I think we convince ourselves that if we just did it, if we just went all in, it's so hard. But what's hard is refusing to let go. That's where the struggle is. You know, you think about like desperately trying to hold on to a rope because you know, you're you're at the edge of a cliff, and what's hard is holding on. That's that that's where you get the, you know, the rope burns and your hands get bloody. It's easy to let go. That's that's the free fall. There's no struggle, there's no the the struggle is when we refuse to let go. And and so if there is a struggle, if if there is difficulty and like I said before, um just a struggle with victory. Why can't I res why can't I change? What is wrong with me? Um I just want to encourage all of us. The struggle is in when we're when we refuse to let go. It's easy to surrender. It really is. All you have to do is let go. It's scary, and that's why we don't. Yeah. But when we when we just fully let go and let the free fall happen, that is where we see the Lord take over, and that is where we see miraculous things happen in our lives.

Where To Connect And Closing Challenge

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Okay, so Carol, if if our listeners want to learn more about Mileye Calvary, wonderful church, what what how could they do that?

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Um, yeah, so we are um online, obviously, mile highcalvary.church. Um, we are on Facebook and Instagram, and uh so is my husband, Pastor Fernando. Oh, he's on the radio. He is, he's on Grace FM at 10 a.m. on weekdays, and I believe it's 5 a.m. on Sunday mornings. Nice. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Still my favorite program on there.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

On at 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Oh no, the the 10 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Yeah, the 10 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Mine too.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

So good.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Well, thank you, Carol. That was an incredible interview. Well, faithful listeners, thank you for hanging with us to the end of the episode. Do us a favor if you have enjoyed this show, if you have found it helpful, share this episode with a friend. There is someone in your life who would be blessed by this. That is our challenge to you. And we will be back again soon with another great interview. Take care of the colour.