Gluten, Sharks, And The Real Thing We Fear

Fear is one of those feelings that shows up uninvited, then starts making demands. It tells you to rehearse the problem one more time, to chase certainty, to stay on high alert. But if we’re honest, that “solution” never brings rest, it just keeps us awake. So we sit down and ask a blunt question: is being afraid actually a sin, and why does anxiety feel like an epidemic when life is, by many measures, safer than ever?

We talk through the obvious pressures like social media, comparison, outrage, and the way constant news exposure loads our minds with more tragedy than humans were designed to carry. We also name the quieter drivers like loneliness and the collapse of real community. Then we go deeper into the spiritual roots: what happens when there’s no transcendent hope, no sovereign God, and no anchor bigger than circumstances? If this life is all there is, fear makes perfect sense.

From there we get practical and personal. We unpack the idea that “fear is worship,” and how anxiety often reveals functional idols like the approval of people or the false safety of money. We walk through what it looks like to name those idols, repent without spiraling in shame, and reorient your heart toward Christ. We also share simple, real-time tools: praying Scripture (Romans 8:15, Psalm 27:1, Matthew 6:33), reminding yourself what’s true when your body is panicking, and bringing fear into the light with trusted believers who can pray and speak truth.

If you’re tired of coping hacks that never reach the root, come listen. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s carrying heavy anxiety, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation.

Transcript

Name The Thing You Trust

SPEAKER_01 0:19

When you have to name the idol, you know, actually say it out loud. I've been trusting this or that to make me feel safe, make me feel okay, and then repent.

Welcome And Why Fear Spikes

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Welcome to Free Indeed, the podcast where we ditch the religious performance and get real about what it means to actually know God. My name is Rich. I'm here with my wife and co-host Kirsten.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Hello. Well, today we are going to discuss something very timely: fear. Specifically, why we struggle so much with fear and anxiety and what we can do about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Right. Yeah, we're in the middle of a genuine anxiety epidemic. And here's the crazy part. By almost every measurable standard, we live in the safest, most comfortable time in human history. Yet people are more afraid than ever. So there's something broken here. And if you're struggling with fear or anxiety or you love someone who is, stay with us because I think this conversation's really going to help.

Our Weird Fears And Real Ones

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Okay. So we're talking about fear today. I want to know what, Richard, are you most afraid of?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Healthy food.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

No, that's so not true.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Veganism.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Gluten.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Gluten.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I would say You can have like a goofy one and a serious one.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Okay. So veganism.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Is that the goofy one and the serious one?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Because I know a couple very nice vegans, but actually I would say surprises.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Really?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Good surprises, bad surprises. I hate all surprises.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Okay, we've been married for almost 28 years. How did I not know that? I hate being surprised. Although the one time I threw a surprise birthday party, you did not like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

No. That's great. Everybody loves me and Okay. You're here to celebrate.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Is it because you're a control freak?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I don't it could be. I hate being surprised.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Okay. Good to see you.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Somebody walked up behind me that knew me the other day at a coffee shop and tickled me from behind, and it was the worst experience I've ever had. I'm looking over my shoulders constantly now.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Okay, is that the serious one?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yes. Okay. That is. How about you? What are you most afraid of?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Um, sharks.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Is that a serious one? You live in Colorado. I know.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I live in a completely landlocked state. So sharks. Um, you know I do not like small spaces. I'm a little claustrophobic. But my my serious one, I would say, can you guess? Knowing my knowing me.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Somebody up in your personal space? No, no, no, no. No.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

I don't mind that. Um wasting my life. Uh I think that's my greatest fear. Sure. Is not having a significant, meaningful life.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Little saving private Ryan moment at the end. Yeah. Tell me my life meant something.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Oh, that's good. I would love to know what our listeners' fears are. I'm curious. You can always email us.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, let us know.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Hello at freedindeed.com. Is it?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Dot C O. Dot C O. You were so close. We've only had it for a few weeks now.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Freedindeed.co. Tell us what is your greatest fear. Okay. Back to the discussion anyway. Oh, okay. Here's what I wanted

Is Fear A Sin?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

to know. If you can put on your Pastor Rich hat for a minute. We're gonna jump straight into the deep theological end with this question. Is it a sin to be afraid? Because you know, the Bible commands us hundreds of times fear not, do not be afraid. Is it a sin to experience fear?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

That's a great question and honestly a little bit of a trap. I mean, the short answer is no. Fear is a God-given emotion. So the problem isn't that we that we feel afraid, the problem is what we do with it. And more importantly, what are who we're putting our trust in when fear shows up? And here's what that actually looks like in real life. I mean, you're lying in bed at midnight, running the same problem through your head, like for the fourth time. Like if you just think about it one more time, you're gonna finally crack the code and you're exhausted, you're not sleeping, nothing's getting solved. That's fear doing what fear does. It promises that if you just stay with it long enough, you'll find your way out, but you never do. Well, and here's the thing Jesus didn't say, you know, figure it out and then come to me. He said, Come to me heavy, exhausted, still holding all of it. He says, Come unto me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest, Matthew 11, 28. I mean, that's the invitation, not after you've got it all together, right now, exactly as you are.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

All right.

Why Anxiety Feels Everywhere

SPEAKER_00 5:40

So what in your opinion are some of the factors contributing to this fear slash anxiety epidemic we're in?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Well, honestly, I think there's a few things just kind of piling on at once right now. I mean, you've got social media, probably the most obvious one. We've engineered an entire ecosystem that runs on comparison and outrage.

unknown 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I mean, you pick up your phone first thing in the morning and you're immediately just assaulted with everything that's wrong with the world and and everyone who seems to be doing better than you, right? So that's a pretty rough way to start your day.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, and I always have felt like we as human beings were not designed to be able to handle that much news at once. Like throughout history, people have not known what was happening in every corner of the world every second of the day. Right, right. You know, so every tragedy, every, you know, mass shooting, disaster, plague, whatever, we know it all instead of just like your village or what was going on, you know, in a 10-mile radius of you. We probably know more in watching the news for an hour than people used to know an entire year of and instead of like, you know, you are acquainted with a hundred people and four of them have cancer, now you know seven hundred people, you know, somehow through social media and And half of them seem to have right. Everyone has cancer, so it just seems very fearful.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah. Yeah. I also think we've been I think we've quietly replaced real community with the idea of community. Um we have more ways to connect than ever, but we're lonelier than ever. Um lonely people are are scared people. And then underneath all that, and this is where I think the deeper issue lives, we've largely abandoned any transcendent source of hope. If this life is all there is, if there's no God, no meaning beyond what you're created or that what you create for yourself. I mean, that's terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

You're just white knuckling it through an uncertain world with no anchor. And fear makes a lot of sense if that's your worldview.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah, if if God is dead or you know, kind of a helpless grandpa in the sky, yeah. Why wouldn't you be terrified of everything all the time? Right. AI. You know, Iran. What's going on? COVID. Like there's so much. If you didn't believe in a sovereign God who actually ruled the universe with wisdom and love, yeah, I would be terrified.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

The ice caps, the polar bears.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

It's it's all well, I love polar bears.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

It's all happening.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I hope they'll be okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Okay, so there's probably a lot of things contributing to why we are all so afraid right now, but what can we do

Advice For Christians And Skeptics

SPEAKER_00 8:53

about this? What would you say to You know, actually, I would say, what would you say to someone who is not a Christian, who is not a follower of Christ, first of all, about fear? And then what would you say to someone who is a Christian? Um, they know all the Bible verses about fear, they pray, they go to church, they do all the things, but they're still being suffocated by anxiety and putting you on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Well, first, if you don't know Christ, if you as your Lord and Savior, if you've um never started your relationship with God um through Christ, which is the only way to have a relationship with God, then I said you I would say you need to start because I I remember before I did, I was fearful of death. I was just a slave to my sin and and uh was afraid of the consequences of my sins and and as afraid of dying and rightly so. Yeah. Oh yeah. So get right with the get right with the Lord and and uh make that decision to to repent of your sins and and trust in in Jesus to to forgive him what he did on the cross for you and and uh you can live with certainty and and no fear of death. But I mean I I think even people that do, that put their faith in Christ, um, if somebody's doing all the right things on the surface, going to church and reading your Bible and praying, but they're still drowning in anxiety, I'd say it's because they haven't dug deep enough to find the actual source. And and um here's a phrase that I've found really helpful. Emotional and behavioral problems are usually heart problems. Um, because the symptom is fear, but the root is something else entirely.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Okay. Explain that a little bit. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

All right.

Fear As Worship And Hidden Idols

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Well, there's a quote that I love fear is worship. We always uh we will always fear what we worship, and we worship what we fear. That's from a book called Equip to Counsel by John Henderson. And think about that for a second. Um, I mean, take a real example. Somebody's terrified of losing their job, their boss is difficult, the environment is toxic, they wake up every morning with a knot in their stomach. If I'm a sitting, if I'm sitting across from that person, I'm gonna ask them what specifically about losing your job scares you the most. They might say, I mean, I'd be humiliated, I'm afraid of what people would think, or I'd run through my savings so fast, I don't know how I'd recover. I mean, now we're getting somewhere, right? So what are the two things underneath that fear?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Uh I would say their like the good opinion of other people, what other people think of them.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

And the security and comfort of having plenty of money in the bank, something to fall back on.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, exactly. I mean, so their identity, their worth is wrapped up in what other people think of them, and their sense of safety is wrapped up in their bank account. So those aren't just anxieties, those are actually they're functional idols, and when idols get threatened, then the those fear alarms, you know, go off.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. That's pretty heavy. So I want to just clarify and make sure I understand what you're saying. So this person who is afraid of losing their job, they're just consumed with anxiety about it. The real issue isn't losing their job. The real issue is they have two idols that are ruling their heart instead of Christ ruling their heart, right? They're their fear of man, like what people will think, and their sense of security being tied to money or what they can provide instead of trusting God.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

And then when those idols get threatened, fear is the alarm that goes off. That's that's what I meant to say there. And it it might sound simple, but that's kind of the point. The gospel is simple, even if it's um, even if it isn't easy, but the answer is to worship and fear the Lord. I mean, not as a cliche, not as a bumper sticker, but as a genuine reorientation of your heart. I mean, you have to name the idol, you know, actually say it out loud. I've been trusting this or that to make me feel safe, to make me feel okay, and then repent. And I don't mean repent in some shame spiral way. I mean turn, change directions, and and uh, you know, fix your eyes back on Christ.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Man, that's so good. It's funny because it's simple, but it's not always easy, right? If that makes any sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Just like golf. Just like golf.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Simple, but not easy. Okay, so let's make it really practical.

Scripts For Panic In Real Time

SPEAKER_00 14:12

What does this look like for someone in real time every day? Let's say this person goes into work, their boss yells at them in front of everyone, they slink off to their desk, and their fear is just ratcheting up. It's just overwhelming. What would be a good response?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

All right. So you're at your desk, you're just boss, your boss just lit you up in front of everyone. Anxieties through the roof. What do you actually do in that moment? You go to the word. I mean, not as a as a magic trick, but because you need to be reminded of what's actually true. I mean, for the person whose identity is at stake, you know, whose fear is what will people think of me? Think of Romans 8 15. That just hits differently at that point. You know, you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry, Abba Father. I mean, your heavenly father isn't the person who just yelled at you. Your worth isn't decided in that office. You're a loved, fully accepted child of God, and nothing that happens at work today changes that.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

And I I think um it's so good to turn scripture into prayers, you know, to give that back to the Lord. God, I feel afraid in this moment, but thank you that I am your son, that I am your daughter, that I do not have a spirit of fear, that I have a spirit of adoption, and that I'm fully accepted by you no matter what happens here in this place, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Right. Like Psalm 27, one, the Lord is my light, my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord's my is the stronghold of my life, of whom shall I be afraid?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, I love having those kind of short, punchy verses, like memorized or written down somewhere, so you can just have them right at hand. Put them on your computer monitor and just repeat them. Yeah, you know, yeah. Um, I think about the end of Matthew chapter six when it comes to financial fears. That whole section Jesus is teaching about how God is a loving father who provides for his children. And then he says in verse 33, but seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. You could turn that into a prayer, you know, like, Lord, I'm worried about my finances. What if I lose my job? Help me to seek first your kingdom and your righteousness. Help me to worship and fear you alone. I choose to trust you, Lord. You know?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Prayed that a few times over the years.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And truthfully that's one of my that's honestly one of my greatest fears, too. I you you've reminded me of that just over the years being the the provider, the main breadwinner of the the family, too. It's just that that fear can creep in that man, what if I don't get that paycheck this week or or what? Gotta remember to seek first the kingdom. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

So the the solution, the antidote to fear, to anxiety, is really to worship and fear the Lord. Right? Like if you if you fear the Lord, that reverence, that awe, you won't fear anything else.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

That's right. And I'd say one more thing.

Community Brings Fear Into Light

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I mean, we weren't designed to do this alone, with apart from God, um, and apart from community. That's why community matters. Um, so when you're sitting across from someone you trust and you say out loud that I'm terrified of losing my job, or I'm scared that people are gonna think I'm a failure, something happens. That that fear actually starts to shrink. So what was living in the dark in your head gets dragged out into the light, and things lose power when they're in the light. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So that is so true. Talk to your brothers and sisters in Christ, talk to people about it, bring it out into the light. It will lose its power over you. Yeah. People can pray for you. That's right. And they can speak truth and love to you, you know, from the word and remind you of what's true. And you can do that for other people. That is why God put us in a family in the body of Christ. Yeah.

Final Encouragement And Email Us

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Well, we hope this was illuminating for everyone. It's kind of a short little episode, but it was on our hearts. We just feel like this is something people are struggling with so much, and it's easy to just turn to man's wisdom, you know, coping mechanisms, things that kind of treat the symptoms, but don't get to the heart of the issue. Um, and you know, the the heart of the issue is always the issue of the heart. So thank you for hanging with us. Um, we would love to hear from you. If you have questions, thoughts, we have more interesting guest interviews coming up. But if there's an episode you would like to hear or see, drop us a line. Freed uh hello at freedindeed.co. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yeah. Anyway, you are safe, you are loved if you are in Christ. You can remember that and hold on to that truth. Anything you want to add, dear?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Okay. We'll be back again soon. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

God bless.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

God bless.