Jacquelyn Gaines: Concrete Ceilings and Compassionate Care

Summary

In this inspiring interview, Jacquelyn Gaines shares her journey from bedside nurse to healthcare CEO, breaking concrete ceilings and emphasizing the importance of joy, mentorship, and authenticity in leadership. Discover her insights on overcoming barriers, the power of respect and integrity, and how to live and lead with purpose.

Key Topics

Breaking concrete ceilings in healthcare
The importance of joy and authenticity in leadership
Mentorship and its role in career advancement

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Well, welcome back to She Shines. This is where we celebrate women who turn pain into purpose and pressure into power, especially since it's Women's History Month. So today's episode is concrete sealings and compassionate care with Jacqueline Gaines. I'm your host, Karen, Coach KG Gilliam, and I want to let you know that Jacqueline, who will join me in a few minutes, has gone from bedside manor to boardroom, from clinician to CEO, from a candy striper to a community change maker. So I want you to know she is what I called an oldie but goody in healthcare. And listen, that is said with total honor and excellence. I'm wearing, you can't see it, but I'm wearing my queen top given to me by a client client. So shout out to Martha Cambridge in Virginia, another queen who in her 70s is still shining. Jacqueline Gaines is also a queen, nurse practitioner, health care administrator, CEO, author, consultant, community advocate, a wife of 49 years, a mother, and a grandmother. And you know what? She's a Zumba instructor for seniors. She goes by Sassy J. So please welcome to our studio. Jacqueline Sassy J. Gates. Hello. Hello there, Jackie.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

How are you? I'm good. Thank you. It's great. It's nice and warm here in North Carolina where I live.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Well, I met you in North Carolina, and I wish it was warmer here in Washington State. But I'm not complaining because we haven't had any snow uh this winter, so I'm not complaining. At least not here in the valley.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

So good, good. Well, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Well, it's a pleasure. I cannot wait for our listeners to hear your story. But before you tell the story, I know I sort of gave a brief bio.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

I'd like you to introduce yourself. Well, thank you again for having me. I um I like you said, I think I am an oldie but goody, been around in in the particularly in the healthcare industry for 49 years in counting. And um, as you said, I've done everything from the bedside being a clinician and seeing patients um all the way through to the boardroom where I ran um as Mercy Health Partners president and CEO for several years there. Um and now I'm an executive healthcare consultant and principal for Huron Consulting Group. So I've done a lot in between. Um done a lot with, I wrote some books and um really excited about that. And I speak all over the country as a national speaker uh for my company as well, um, trying to uh do my share for the leadership of tomorrow. Uh and so I do a lot of leadership conferences uh for it, particularly in healthcare.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Oh, well, let me just say the list, as you see, is long for Jackie. But she and I met, wow, Jackie, how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_02 4:38

At least, well, I've been in North Carolina for what 16 years. So it's you know, it's been 16 years because it was right that first year when I um arrived.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

When you moved to North Carolina, wow. And I was with uh a radio station there in North Carolina, and we met, and the similarities in our life and our stories are just uncanny. So I love that you are lovingly known as Sassy J because as you look at her, she is sassy. But but what I love most, Jackie, is that you didn't just break glass ceilings. Oh no, you broke concrete ones. So we're gonna get into this story because it is good. So, Jackie, before the boardroom, before your CEO title, you were a candy striper.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Oh that's taking me back, huh? Are you taking an old lady back way back when I was like 12 or 13 years old?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Well, I want, because I'm sure we have a lot of people listening that might not even know what a candy striper is. It's okay, take us back, Jackie. What was little Jacqueline like?

SPEAKER_02 6:13

It's actually uh uh it was a voluntary role, you know, that my parents wanted to expose their children to all kinds of things so that they could make decisions about their career. And I knew I wanted to be in healthcare. I just didn't know what I wanted to do. So back then, candy stripers wore uniforms that looked like a can, you know, a candy stripe. And basically we would go into the hospital, we didn't do much, served water, books, magazines, you know, took care of the flowers, you know, um, talked to the patients. Um, but it was it, I got to see the world uh of healthcare from the inside. And I was, I was smitten. You know, I think uh I knew then, wasn't sure what I wanted to do, whether I wanted to be a physician or whether I wanted to be a nurse. But I think being there for several years, being a candy striper, the um the nursing uh part of it really touched my heart. I loved the caring spirit that they showed to patients and just knew I wanted to do that, you know, uh in my career. So I chose the nursing path and went on to be a nurse practitioner, and that's all she wrote.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Wow. And you know what? You are absolutely right. A nurse is someone who has extreme compassion, who seriously takes on that role as being someone's caregiver. Yes, and they're in your care. So kudos to you, Jack. Jack. I wanted sometime. I want to say Jacqueline, sometimes I want to say please call me Jackie. I knew she was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Look, it's only my mother when I'm doing something wrong, calls me Jacqueline.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Oh, yeah. Moms do that, don't they? I remember the same thing for me. My mother, if if it was Karen, but if it was Karen Johnson, that's the first level of trouble. But if she went Karen Denise Johnson, yes, I better come sprint. Yeah. So, well, what you just shared, your early inspiration and your foundation into healthcare, you were exposed to volunteering, and that is admirable as well. You also had strong parental res uh influence. Your parents influenced you strong. Yeah. And then you um you were told in our conversation before by your father that you would have to work harder.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yes, yes. Uh he my my parents were pretty strict, you know, about those things, believed in all three of their daughters that they wanted them to achieve, but knew that we were black women that would have to work harder uh to be accepted in um higher level roles, you know. But for them, for for us, they just wanted us to achieve and to and to do something that we loved and enjoyed doing, um, and that that was really important. But um, you know, no, we we I was a little bit of a nerd back then, uh, study a bookworm, studied straight A student, but um, you know, that was never good enough for my dad, particularly. If I brought home an A, he would say, Well, why didn't you get the extra credit? You know, because he knew he knew then that I would need that to, I need to have that in my head in order to be successful. And and in many ways, you know, even though I didn't like it when he was saying it back then, he was right. You know, I did need to push myself harder in order to get accepted and to be in in the roles. And, you know, I've been very fortunate to have achieved more than most in their career, uh, not just as a minority woman, but as a person uh in general. So, you know, I when I when I lecture at um at universities, the the one of the first things they ask me is, how do you know all this stuff, Miss Gaines? And the second question is, when can I make how much money you make? You know, and it's like, well, first of all, I'm old. Secondly, I I've done a lot in my, you know, in my career, um, and lots of lots of you know, water under this bridge for for this journey. But you have to work hard at what you do. And so it's not um, it's not a matter of when you just have to leave yourself open for that journey uh that each of us are on um in order to achieve where you want to.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Absolutely. And and that's why I encourage clients that find what it is that you are passionate about. Right. Because if we have to work hard, we at least need to enjoy it. Exactly. And not just be a J-O-B. And we know that's the journey of the broke or broken.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah. Well, it's funny you should say that because when I lecture, one of the things, uh, a whole lecture that I have on is about the power of joy. And and this is to a leadership group, because basically I think, you know, we spend more waking hours in our workplace than we do with our own families or friends. And when you think about that, it is, but it's true. Um, and if but but when you think about that, if you are doing something that does not bring you joy, then you are going to be a miserable human being, not only to yourself, but to your team, if you're a leader, to the people, your colleagues, and we've all worked side by side next to a curmudgeon who is not happy.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Oh, what, Jackie? That's my word. It's a curmudgeon.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

It's really, you know, it's and basically it's somebody who just wakes up evil, you know, wakes up not happy with themselves, with their life, with everything. And they bring it to work because we do bring our whole selves to work. Um, there is no departmentalizing that. And and you feel that. But if you work side by side next to someone who is truly, as you said, passionate about what they do, but really is doing something that brings them joy, then it really doesn't have to mean everything that you do. It's a it's a job. You know, everything's not gonna bring you. But if the essence of what you do brings you joy, it's you're more productive, you're you're better at what you do. And I just think you excel a lot faster when you choose jobs that bring you joy than chasing the title or the money, or you know, and I I am convinced that the money comes, the title will come, but if that's your first choice, then you're not going to be very happy or good at what you do. So I have always gone after things and jobs that bring me joy, you know. I call it ringing my bell.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

You know that song went right. It rings my bell. That's right. Yes. Oh my goodness. Well, you know, I have isms, as my producer calls them, Coach KG Isms. And so joy, there is joy in the journey. Right. And you can't write the word journey without joy. I love it. Yes, that's that is correct. That is true. And so have that joy, and you definitely, definitely are a fine example of having that joy. Well, now let's see. You have gone, we've gone from the bedside. So now let's go into that boardroom. You've held positions as a nurse practitioner to healthcare administrator to CEO. Woo! That's a powerful arc. What did each level, Jackie, teach you?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Oh, well, I think a lot about myself. First of all, even thinking that I could do it. You know, when I when I graduated, particularly the the second time around with uh being a nurse practitioner, you know, I I thought that this is my life. This is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. And it's funny, um, you don't see beyond that. If someone had told me, oh, you're gonna be a, you're gonna have some bestseller books, I'm like, oh, really? No, get out of here. I'm not gonna be an author, you know, um, or that you were gonna be a national speaker, or that you were going to be, you know, one of the few minority women in the country at that time to run a health system as their president, a CEO, as a system president, which is even a step higher than being a hospital president. And so it it um if someone had told me that that back then when I graduated, first the first time around with uh at University of Maryland, and then the second time around at University of Maryland with my graduate degrees, it's like I would have said, get out. No. That's that's not I'm happy with what I'm doing. But I think I think um through the power of mentorship, um, I had lots of different mentors in my life along the way. And I think they saw something in me before I saw it in myself, and basically pushed and said, You, you're you gotta, you have a bigger dream than that. And um every time a new job would come available, this particular one mentor uh who I I you know just adore, he said to me, I would ask him, I'm I'm like, you know, what about this job? You know, this what does this sound like? You know, is this the next step for me? I I wasn't really looking. And he stopped me and he said, You have two things you need to think about when you looking at new jobs. Will are you still happy, Jackie? Are you still having fun? And the second question was even more powerful was, are you growing? Because when you stop growing and stop enjoying what you do, you know that it's time to move to the next thing that you need to get involved in. And I've lived with that through every single transition that I've been through. So I stopped looking for jobs. So basically, I didn't look for uh a job. They I I left myself open for the opportunity, and so and I just walked through the door. Yeah. My grandmother, you talk about isms. My grandmother used to say to me, Jackie, get out of your own way. And when I was little, I had no idea what she was talking about. That's like what okay, Nana, that's fine. I don't know what you're talking about, but that's fine. But as an older person, you now know that I was the barrier to my own journey because I was chasing what I thought other people wanted me to be, not what I wanted to be. I saw other opportunities, and I don't think I would have uh and I left myself open for mentorship too. So I don't think I would have done that if I had um, you know, just stayed in my own way and put up my own barriers, you know, having this concrete, you know, five-year plan. I threw the five-year plan away, and now I'm I'm following my passion, and that's that's uh amazing. And I'm still doing well and being, you know, excelling in what I'm doing. And it's because I think it's those those two things, those joy and growth.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

You know, I I just uh spoke on this recently about especially women. We we do get in our own way. And as women, we wait, we we want permission, right? And permission and timing, permission from family members, right? And it's what are you waiting for? You cannot really honestly blame anything or anybody stop waiting for permission, get out like Jackie said, get out of your own way.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Well, and I think some of it is that we we haven't had that chat, that honest chat with ourselves about what is absolutely important to us. So when I mentor other um um women, particularly, I have them do this this quick chart, which I'll share. It's basically your chart of absolutes. So you get out a blank piece of paper, you sit in a room, close the door, don't have the TV on or radio, nothing. Just you and your own thoughts. And get away from the phone. Just get away, nothing. You can't just you need just about 30 minutes to yourself. Okay. Um, and basically you make three columns. The first column is all the things that you absolutely must have in any job that you would have. And ground rules, you can't use title and you can't say money. So, what would you write down? They have to be behavioral. So, for instance, I um I love being uh growing things and building things and um nurturing things, and so any job that I have has to have those characteristics in it. It could be building buildings, projects, people, but I like that. The other thing is that I know that I probably, even though I could do finance, I probably would never be a CFO because me in numbers by myself wouldn't wouldn't that wouldn't work. I gotta have people in my life. Yes. Yes, yes. I gotta be driving people. So me talking to the numbers all day, I know how to read it, but I and I know how to interpret it as a CEO, but um not not my not my joy button. So so I leave that. So the next column is all of those things that you absolutely would walk away from a job if it if it was in there. So I'll give you my own. I'm at the point now, I've traveled, you know, from East Coast to West Coast, I've lived on both coastlines and in between. And I have no desire to to travel anymore like that, not to move. I'm done moving. I'm done moving. Um I'm I'm not moving. Moving, you know, until they move me and put me somewhere at home. I'm not moving, you know, so I'm done. Done with that. So that would be on my absolutes chart. Something that would what would you know force me to move or relocate is a no-no for me. So, but that wasn't on there, you know, 10 years ago. That would have been maybe a different answer to unit differences. Right. But then that last column is your negotiables. And I think, you know, what are you willing to negotiate? You know, what what kinds of things are, you know, okay. You know, if people did this, just had this private conversation, you don't have to show it to anybody. You could take it in to an interview. And instead of the company interviewing you only, you now are looking for specific things to interview them about. Do they match? Check off your absolute sensitive. I love it. You know, doesn't ring your bell, but it's a little trick of the trade that you should. I mean, I hope your listeners, you know, do it have a talk with yourself. We don't talk to ourselves enough. That doesn't make you crazy, it makes you wise. Yeah, that is true.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

That is very true. We have a lot of wisdom. That's right. That's right. That's right. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Because to me, that is important. It's amazing. We'll make a checklist for a vacation um for our kids, you know, grandkids, and in this case for for me and and you. Why not make a list for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Just identifying. Just identify. We pause. We don't pause to have that conversation with ourselves. We just go. We just run, do, do, do. We don't, we get a degree, we don't know why. We just, you know, yeah, it's like, okay, everybody else is getting this, let me get it. And it's like, yeah, okay, pause. Why? And then all the other things kind of, you'd be surprised. The it opens your vision to see things that you may not have been able to see before. You'll look at things a little bit differently. And so it's it's pretty effective.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

I I love it. I and if you are listening right now, definitely put that on your list to do, um, to succeed. I I don't like to call it a to-do list because everybody hates a to-do list, but I call it to succeed list. Right. And because you will succeed by knowing that. So I thank you, Jackie, for sharing that. Now, you spoke of two things that I want us to go into mentorship and your books. So I'll let you decide um which one uh you want to talk about first. But we're gonna talk about both of them.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Well, I'll start with the mentorship because it's it's near and dear to my heart. First of all, I have been blessed to have so many, I can close my eyes and see the people who have touched my life, you know, over the years at every stage of, you know, I guess even starting with my parents, but then going beyond that to other people, like I said, who saw something in me before I saw it in myself. I I um may seem extroverted today, but not really. I mean, I I it takes a lot. I work at extra being an extrovert. I really I had to allow others in to kind of help me to see some other parts of me that could be successful. Things they just, you know, pushed me to. And I'll give you a little short story about my biggest mentor in my life was uh a man by the name of Dick Davidson. He was the um president of American Hospital Association and served on a board of directors on one of the organizations I worked for, Healthcare for the Homeless, back when I lived in Maryland. And um, and he would he pushed me to even apply for being the CEO of that organization when I was seeing patients. You know, I was a nurse practitioner, I was seeing patients. And basically, um, when make a long story short, when I got the job, I did get the job after he nurtured me, told me all about it, um, he sent me this little baby tree, this little tiny little baby tree, and said, You're growing and this isn't, you know, this isn't the end, you know, this isn't the end. Probably after he he was stepping down off of our board and he was doing more work at um the American Hospital Association, he kept, he kept mentoring me. Um, and he would talk to me about, you know, the next step when I was there at Healthcare for Homes for 13 years before I left. And I've, you know, very proud of that work there. But it was time for me to go to the next thing. And he kept telling me, you're gonna run a hospital. And I was like, get out of here, Dick. I'm not running any hospital, you know, get out of here, you know. So, but but you know, ended up. I, you know, went across country, left Maryland, first time ever leaving the state traveling, and my family moved to Portland, Oregon, where um I became the first uh minority female to run a hospital in the state's history. So broke, shattered that glass ceiling. It was actually a little concrete, but shattered that. And um yeah, and and they actually have pictures of me standing outside of the hospital with a sign that says uh the real Portland Trailblazer. It was really pretty cool. Um it was pretty cool, and so I remember I hadn't been in that job as CEO, but I don't know, a couple weeks, and then this delivery came with this medium-sized tree from Dick Davidson. So it had grown into another tree, but it was bigger. And he wrote, You're not done yet, you will run a health system. And now you have to understand during that time period, minority women particularly they they they didn't exist at that level. There was no system CEOs that were, you know, you know, there were some women, but very few. Um, there weren't any minority women. They we we had gotten to the phase where I think it was maybe 10 or 12 of us actually running hospitals, but to run the whole health system was a whole nother hill of beans. So when I got recruited and then hired to run the Mercy Health System in um in uh Pennsylvania, um it was uh a big, big old, big old concrete chunk came falling down. And um the next thing I knew, again, a couple weeks there, I get this humongous tree with a note stick that says, I told you so. Wow. You know, but the mentorship that he uh demonstrated and he role modeled for me, I carry in my spirit to this day. And he taught me so many lessons about encouraging. It doesn't take a lot to encourage someone else to um to be their best. And when you do that, your team follows you because you're lifting them up. It's not about you, it's about your team and the people that work with you every day. And I do say with, not for.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

That's right, because it takes all of us together to to do the work, especially in healthcare, the hard work that we have to do. So um I the power of mentorship is really important to me. And I try to, I don't think in all the years of I don't think I've ever said no to anybody of being someone's mentor. I mentor all, you know, all shapes, sizes, ethnicity, you know, it doesn't matter. It's it's not about that. It's that I am drawn to people who want to grow and who want to to to really take the mirror out and look at themselves and and see that they can, you know, that they can fly, that they can, you know, achieve the impossible um and don't let anybody I would my father say, don't let anybody tell you what you cannot be. That's right. You know, so that's right. Just just dig in and just do your job. So so that led me to the second answer to your question about the book. One of the things that I noticed, particularly as a woman, was that most of the leadership books that are out there are written by men. And um even the ones for women. Yes, so I kept thinking I would pick something up and it was like, wait a minute, this is not this it's missing a whole lot, you know, in here. Like even things like who writes about, you know, the guilt that women feel when they have to go back to work after having a kid or the choices that they make about child having children and and working, you know, or don't be a leader. Oh my goodness, that's a whole nother choice. But even getting even more granular, like who teaches women about how to live through menopause and be a leader? And and I mean, honestly, you know, who has those kind of conversations? Um and so I started writing um nonfiction, but all uh books that were, you know, take the gloves off, let's talk, let's talk real about what it's like to be a woman and to be a leader, particularly, and to excel. How do you do that? What's that professional trajectory, you know, based on not just my own experience, but the experience of other women that I've worked with, and also, you know, being in a a diverse person in the workforce, and how do you how do you navigate that? So um, so it ended up one book, and the next thing you knew, five books later, five bestsellers, and it um and you know, has been really all around the world. Um, you know, the especially the yellow suit book, it it has definitely gone worldwide.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Oh my goodness. And you you told me you sort of updated. Yes. Explain the yellow suit.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

So so basically, you know, um that that book, the yellow, the first book, The Yellow Suit, A Guide for Women and Leadership. It it took off. I mean, it it it got such accolades from everywhere. People love that book. And it had been out a while, so it had some dated material in it. And I kept getting the request, Jackie, you need to do the next edition of the uh so I did. And now that one has done very well as well, called Wearing the Yellow Suit, A Guide for Women and Leadership. So um it's all updated, probably about I would say 60 to 65 percent new material that um new new stories, new things to new things to share, um, that brings us up to present day. But the the title, the yellow suit, actually has a meaning. And I'll share that with your listeners. Um even though I want you to get the book, I'll share that with you. Okay, okay. Because people often ask me, well, why that's an odd title, the yellow suit. So it is when I got when I was uh interviewing for my the CEO job in Portland, the very first hospital CEO job that I that, you know, and it was clear across country. I lived in Maryland, uh yeah, I lived in Maryland, and here I was, you know, looking at going clear across country for a job. Um, never left the the state before like that, you know, for employment. Uh and so I I am if as you can see by today, I love colors. And so I'm always unusual. Uh, you know, I dress professionally, but I will wear colors. I don't like the traditional black suit, white shirt, you know, you know, um, pumps, all of that. I just, you know, so even if I'm gonna be the only one in the room, which I usually am, the only woman and sometimes the only woman minority in the room, I'm gonna, they're gonna see me. And then because it brings me colors bring me joy. So when I looked in my to to my suitcase, I'm like, okay, what am I gonna pack for this interview? You know, because they should I wear my colors or should I go traditional with a black suit, all that? So I went with colors, you know. So I packed my colors. One of the things I put in the bag was a yellow muted, um, very professional suit with a lovely scarf and all of that, and um, and showed up for the interview. Now, I the way they had us interviewing the other two candidates we were rotating, it was three of us who were rotating, and I saw them. Guess what they were wearing? One other woman, black suit, white shirt, uh-huh. And the guy, black suit, white shirt, red tie. I was like, uh-huh. And here I am in a yellow muted suit, right? So I went into the interview, and you know, it was being me, just the they they I had them laughing, they were enjoying the it was a great exchange. And um, I went back to my hotel room and the the recruiter calls me that night. I'm still in Portland, you know, for to meet the next, the system president the next day. And he says, Jackie, he says, Jackie, he says, um, they want you to come back to do another round with the board, which wasn't on the schedule. I was just going to meet the CEO. I said, really? He says, yeah. He says, you blew them away, but all that they kept telling the CEO who hasn't met me yet, he says, anybody who is that courageous to wear a yellow suit to interview is the type of person we want for this job. Yes. And so I interviewed with the board, and then the next day I got offered the job from the CEO. Yeah. So be yourself, guys. I mean, be yourself. Be yourself. Step into who you are. You don't have to be afraid. And it's not about being outlandish, it's more about being uh yourself, you're fruitfully into yourself and and feeling okay about who you are. You know, absolutely you know, to do that. So that's my two stories. Did I answer your questions?

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Yes, ma'am. Now, a couple of takeaways. Yellow and red are the two power colors. Yes. So you even though it was muted, as you said, but it was still yellow. And yes, McDonald's, the the fast food chain, uses red and yellow. Yes, yes. And look what happened. So that just yeah, and then um another takeaway from what you shared is you said uh impossible, and immediately I had an ism for it I'm possible. Yes. You write that word impossible. I write that down. I'm possible. And then uh another reflection I had while you were sharing that about the trees, uh sometimes we're trimming branches when we should be examining the roots. Yes, yes, and I I just Jackie, when I talk to you, so much just floods my mind. And and uh the similarities, like I said, we have because I had a mentor, and uh you were talking about what Dick saw in you, and my mentor told me what I was going to be doing, uh, and I laughed and she said something profound to me instead of what she saw in me, she said, Allow me to believe in you until you believe in yourself. Right. And those words just pierced, but I love the analogy of the the uh the trees. Dick was a mentor for you, and my definition of a mentor like my mentor, someone who lives to make sure your dreams come true. That's what my mentor did for me, and that's what Dick did for you.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

And just for the record, Dick Davidson is a white man, and so to take me under his wing um during that time period um was just an amazing gift to me, which I think mentorship is. It is, it's a gift to the people you touch.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Be careful about the people that you are hanging around with. Right. You if you're hanging around ten broke friends, what does that make you? Right. Numbers exactly the sum of all that you hang around. Be careful, love everybody, but don't hang with everybody, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:27

That that is yeah, can I can I share one more thing that I learned uh along the way that I think um is probably my anchor, is that whatever you choose to do, do it with respect and integrity. And that if you can hang on to those two things, you could work in almost any environment. Um and it it really is the when you talk about the roots, it is the roots for your success. I think if you if you compromise or allow someone to compromise either of those things, um, and if you show respect and lead with integrity, I think you you will be on the pathway to success. And and every mentor that I ever had demonstrated that to me.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

But wow. Yeah, I I just know I'm gonna have I'm saying this already, but you're gonna come back and because we're gonna share even more. But I do want to talk about this because you you and I talked about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Um when it comes to patient uh-centered care, because like I said, you are very compassionate in your caring and uh how health care often skips foundational needs. Um you cannot treat illness without addressing addressing safety, uh, housing, belonging. But I want you to share about the homeless health care growth and the understanding of that of the human hierarchy. You mind sharing it?

SPEAKER_02 42:24

I no, no, not at all. I I spent 13 years of my life um, and I my heart is probably one of the best jobs I've ever had was working at Healthcare for the homeless in Maryland, and they're still in existence all around the country. At the time when I joined, there were only 17 programs like this one in Maryland, um uh nationwide. And, you know, we were learning a lot from each other. And I came from Johns Hopkins, where you know, you can clap your hand and your resources are right there to take care of people. But in in the homeless clinics, their resources are low. You have to be and and their needs are very complex in that they're they really uh present with social underpinnings that have to be addressed. You know, whether they ate, whether they, you know, could um, you know, keep themselves clean and not reinfect a wound, for instance. You know, it's all kinds of considerations that uh traditional health care does not take in, they're not built that way. We're built for people to be, I mentioned Maslows to you, but at a higher level on that Maslow's chart. We almost expect people to be able to be self actualized and what have you been dealt with water and shelter and safety at the and then we wonder why they're not compliant. So, you know, one of the cool things I learned, and it was a big lesson for me that I took all the way even to today, is that when you when you work with people, no matter whether they have um limited resource resources or not, that the system has to be built for them and not for the provider. Not for the people providing care and their convenience, but for them. Do you ask them the right questions? Do you have a refrigerator to put these medicines in? Do you can you do you have access to running water? You know, can you take this medicine, you know, three times a day with meals? Well, when somebody looks at you and says, well, which meal? Out of the garbage can or the soup kitchen, what are you going to say? You know, or that the soup kitchen won't let me keep my medicines there. You know, so it's like you have to think differently. And I think that's what I learned so much when I worked with healthcare for the homeless because it was, it taught me that I had to flip that paradigm. It was not, you know, the the healthcare system, everything I learned in school was built on people being higher up on that that that scale of Maslow's. And we, we, all of us who now who did that work for all those years and still do that work, you have to look at this from a totally different lens. Deal with those first. And I just think we miss that. And in in our environment today where people are lacking so many resources, they they don't have to be homeless. They just are on the edge. We don't ask the right questions and we're still assuming that people can do what we ask them to do in healthcare. And we really have to change that paradigm a little bit and and look at the world a little bit differently, ask different questions and train people differently. That checking boxes about you know their lives um that it's just different in how you set up it is it it's a matter of getting in their boat. Yes yes understanding them it's not about the system that you are a part of um it is not about the organization or the company or what whoever it's not about the board right it's about that person that's in front of you right that you're face to face with healing my insight to that Jackie is healing is holistic yes is holistic and that you can't prescribe dignity right you can't exactly exactly you must practice it right that's that respectful piece of of who you are and whatever role you have doesn't even have to be healthcare but respect has to be part of your core foundation absolutely along sitting right by your integrity.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Yes and you know what is it respect is earned yes not given not given right what right I am going to respect the person I don't have to know about them or they have to do something is unconditional to me. Right. And you don't have to like them you don't even have to like them to respect them but but you know I know spiritually we you and I we see them or we should see them as God sees them. Yes and they matter absolutely absolutely you don't want me to get on that soapbox all right so let's talk about the concrete ceilings before we get into something fun.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Okay you said you didn't break glass ceilings and and I've always just heard about glass ceilings especially as a woman and as a minority you broke concrete ones come on Jackie explain that I just I just think that um you know there's I you know without doing a whole list there's there's so many first walking through the first of doing something being the first in doing something um as a minority woman um and I think you you pause and you say why is this like this why why was this so hard and there was there's there's it's not just breaking the glass and and you know it's really been you have to work three times harder you have to really push yourself to break that now you know even being a system president that was a concrete ceiling. I mean there was there's you you look around and you know there's really none of us there to talk to you know um and so and and that that had been that way back then for a long time. Now there's more today than there was back you know when when that occurred but it but it was still uh it was still a climb that that you know that the to get through that ceiling like that. I'm proud of it but it also is sad you know because people when I tell people that story or they read my first book Believing you can fly that talks about you know crashing that ceiling it's it's sort of you again you're they're proud but then you're sad that you had to fight that fight like that that it was I'm talented um at least I think I am and and that I think I have something to contribute equally if in not in some cases maybe even better than my male counterpart but it but it it still wasn't a level playing field. So I think um the this the maybe we've transitioned away from the concrete back to glass but back then it was definitely concrete and you know took a lot of effort uh and and you know what I heard people say is you know and which really I it it kind of still in my soul we took a chance on you Jackie you know and I just had to you you pause and you say how many other people my male counterparts did they say that to that they took a chance on them and the chance was because I was a minority female and they took a chance on me. Again I'm glad I opened that door for other people you know to follow that it maybe it returned to glass instead of it being concrete it's still a barrier. But it's it's not as heavy I don't think as it was you know when when me and several other minority females walk through that door.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Wow wow powerful then and what I take away from that I believe you said when we had our conversation that you live and work not letting anyone tell me what I can't do can't do or what I cannot be. Right. And one of the things this is something I'm learning right now is I don't want to leave room for doubt. So I'm trying to watch saying I think because if you tell somebody I think they are going to receive that as oh she's not sure. So I I am trying to say I believe yes that that is more that's stronger than I think. So um I want to encourage our listeners to start saying instead of I think I believe yes so well Jackie you are the master of your own journey you are spiritual you are following a path written with your own pen you invest in others I I mean the accolades that I could just go on and on about you are incredible. And one fun thing that she does do is Zumba Zumba and I think last month I had how I was introduced to Zumba Maria and she's in Raleigh and she's from Guatemala and she made Zumba fun. And when I look on those social media and see Jackie with her seniors I see why they call you sassy J. So tell them about your Zumba for seniors.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

It's my first of all it's my passion I've been teaching now for almost 12 years and um I I started doing it actually when I moved to North Carolina I wanted to bond with other women in the area didn't know anybody and went to a Zumba party and that was it you know I was hooked. It was fun I had a blast I danced you know with friends that are near and dear to me today um you know for several years before we all together a group of us went and got our licenses as instructors and began to teach. And um and when the senior center here in Apex in North Carolina was opening I um I went there and I said look I want to give back to my community how would you like a free Zumba instructor once a week and for your seniors and they just looked at me like really and so as soon as the doors opened I started and I the the the uh the class has just grown and grown and grown and gotten and we have such a blast I try to make it all fun for them and we dress up we have you know we have uh parties we we just have a good time with each other and it's not about necessarily just the moves even though they they work out now they work maybe they work out um but I got my handle sassy jay because I my colors but also I um I like all these different hats that have bling on them so they so they they started to call me sassy jay and it stuck and so now everybody knows me as sassy jay wow well that is definitely community care in action sassy j and her seniors and I'ma tell you they are a hoot i just watching on social media is great well jackie like i said i know i'm gonna have you back but we're going to do the sassy j final round all right if you are listener to she shines with coach kg you know yes we talk serious the at the beginning you get to hear a woman share her story see how she shines not only in the workplace but in her community but then I just like to lighten it up a little bit and we have this fire round which I call sassy j concrete confidence with sassy jay so you're gonna give me quick answers you're not gonna overthink and let's have fun okay all right boardroom or bedside ooh um I'm gonna say I want a foot in both leave it to her leave it to Jackie okay she won a foot in both all right one word that defines leadership oh I think the one I shared with you earlier integrity definitely integrity what drains your energy immediately crazy people okay what fills your cup uh giving giving giving of myself to other people that that fills my cup um I have to say one more thing fills my cup and that's when what what really rings my bell is when I see the growth in in someone that I've mentored that they're flying on their own and they they're they're shining and I think that it just fills me up love it a myth about minority women in leadership that we're less than that we that we can't um be measured in the same way as as as others so I think that's a myth. Yes your 20 year old self needed to hear what that that I think the things that um I dreamed of for myself could actually be achieved I think that you know I think in back then I'm I still questioned it a lot yes okay we've got two more okay legacy in one sentence my grandchildren and my child my daughters she I have three grandchildren and two grown daughters so um that's the legacy yes if you can touch one life what happens I hope that I'm able to offer one thing that will make a difference for them and make their life better.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Oh wow well let me tell you we had a lot of key takeaways I hope you as a listener today have been taking notes and some of the takeaways from Jackie today systems can be rewritten um not her words Jesus just mine you may have to work harder but that doesn't mean you are less integrity and respect are non-negotiable heal roots not just branches and your shine is not arrogance it's assignment so sassy J, Jackie reminds us that ceilings are only limits if we accept them and you may have been told you won't amount to anything you may have have been diminished but listen carefully concrete cracks are under consistent pressure yes and if this episode touched you better not hold it on just to yourself share it the woman that you share it with will appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Send it to someone who's navigating leadership send it to someone who needs permission to rise because you don't I've already told you that and if you're ready to rewrite your own structure whether in career calling or confidence join me inside the She Shines community because here we don't just shine we build we heal and we rise I would like to share with you how you can get in touch with Jackie and let's see if it comes out where did it go Jackie Okay let while I'm putting it up I'm gonna just let you share some last words I I think that um the last thing I would just say is believe in yourself. You know you you can dare to dream you can achieve that impossible if you just try and and really just you know chase your passion and your joy don't chase the title and the money chase the passion and the joy and believe me the rest comes um you know that that success will follow you and the good thing about that is other people will follow you too so just believe I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Let's see let me come back here I wasn't able to get it but what I will do Jackie it will be in the show notes okay so the if you want to get in touch with Jackie please do look at the show notes um I will also post it when I put the episode up in social media um because oh wait a minute it just showed up are you serious there it is and those of you that are listening and you say well I can't see it um you will have it it will be in the show notes um but if you are watching on YouTube of course again one last time that's how to get in touch with Jackie Sassy J. We just gonna call her sassy J because we're family now.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:03

I'll take it I'll take it no for no um formal introductions well Jackie thank you from the bottom of my heart I'm still looking at you very much and for all our listeners please remember that no one needs to dim your light keep shining because it's your assignment be in alignment with your assignment and we'll see you the next time on She Shines with Coach KG bye thank you bye will you realize or let your spirit break free you got power inside you more than you can see time to realign reclaim what's meant to be live in your digital power