Former Repton, England & Professional Boxer, Now Personal Trainer | Michael Evans

This Week On The BE FIRST Podcast, We Welcome Another Good Friend Of Ours, Mr Michael Evans. 

A Late Starter To Boxing, But His Hunger & Determination to Achieve His Dreams Set Him On The Right Boxing Journey. 

From His Early Beginnings at Brentwood Youth ABC, His Time at Repton ABC with The Late Great Tony Burns, Boxing on Team England with Anthony Joshua to His Destructive Start as He Gained 5-0 As A Pro. 

This Is Another NOT to Be Missed Episode, So Be Prepared To Step Into The Ring & BE FIRST! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

My mindset now is I'm a totally different person to when I was then. You know, when Tony Byrne said to me, like, I think it's not like a Tuesday I was saying go on Monday, and he was like, Do you wanna fight Friday? Like for England, I was like, but Sparring, they had like the big platform with a big ring. They got a big heater over the ring, and you're just cooking in Ireland. So that's when I flew over to Ireland with the England team. That Anthony Joshua on the England team as well, like it was a good team. And then obviously they had the rematch with me in Ireland and then beat him again. I was like, you know, 10 years ago or something, 15 years ago, like my whole mindset was like, you know, like I was so like driven and focused and aggressive, like, you know, like I wanted to be a boxer, right? Because I had 19, I only had 19 fights and 16 wins. Darren Barker, you know, um the load of spoting with sparring with you know John Ryder, I was like doing sparring with Tony Conquest and all these different pros, so like you've got hard sparring, so you know that and welcome back to the Be Face Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Today's guest, we've got a former amateur and professional boxer, now personal trainer, Mr. Michael Evans.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah, that's a pleasure having you on, and thanks for taking your time out to your busy home life and work like that. Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

When you asked, you know, it's something that I've um looking forward to, and uh yeah, I haven't done before, so that's good. Yeah, see how I'll go, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Nah, you'll be fine, lad, you'll be fine. It's just a chat, innit? Just a chat like we've just just been saying, yeah, there's no there's no big lights. Well, there is one in behind, but there's no big cameras or nothing, it's just raw and unfiltered. But um, mate, if you can take us back to the start a little bit about where you grew up and how you go into a sport that you love.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, okay, so um so I was born in like Brentwood, so I'm Brentwood based. So like here, like raised by my mum. Um my mum and my granddad, so like a close family. Um, but yeah, like I've always lived in Brentwood, like around like Brentwood Hutton area, stuff like that. So that's where I was raised. You know, I went to school around here in like of Shenboard High School and stuff like that. But obviously, when I was younger, I weren't like I was always good, like, you know, a lot of energy, stuff like that, a good kid, but like kind of struggled with kind of attention and a lot of energy. Do you know what I mean? But I've always kind of found sports, so I played football, but I weren't, I mean I wasn't really like like great. I played it to a good level, but not like kind of you know, like academies kind of style and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

But yeah. So with this energy and and things, where did boxing come into?

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Well, like obviously I used to do a bit of boxing when I was younger, like my friend, like when I was kind of like 12, 13, my friend's older brother used to box for five-star, he was really good, like school boys champion and everything. And then we used to go like training there, but then again, I kind of lacked maybe the discipline, like you know, like I love the training, but when it started getting hard, like you maybe getting ready for like the season, and you got to train three nights a week. I was kind of like disappearing, you know, and then reappearing and disappearing, and you know, I weren't like again when I was younger, like you know, when I was like 13, 14, stuff like that, I was like Friday nights down the park, like and maybe doing what I shouldn't be doing, you know. If you're drinking and stuff like that, I weren't really like I weren't really like it's like you know, I would never let my children do that, you know. I mean, I dread that, but yeah, I was kind of like that, and um, but then what was the question?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

How you got into it?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Oh, and boxing, yeah. Then I left it. So then, yeah, that was like when I was like kind of like younger. Um, but then yeah, then like kind of left it, but I'd always kind of fit. So even when I was like 14, 15, 16, I was always kind of um, you know, I had my little Argos set, like my uncles are bodybuilders and that. Like they always had like like if they come to stay, one of my uncles might stay at the house for a little while. Um, there's always weights lying around. So I was always like, you know, as I was 14, 15, like doing bicycle and self-training. Do you know what I mean? I was always like thought as a little bodybuilder, project. Yeah, yeah. So I was literally so I was always, but then yeah, then it was like, yeah, then I like obviously like worked, stuff like that, like left school. Like again, I weren't really the like a lot of people probably don't like realize like when I was in school, I was like, I was always a good kid, but I didn't do the best in school, you know. Uh like I just struggled to learn and you know, um, I love PE, like loved, like now looking back, if I'd have had someone to kind of like guide me, I'd have probably said, like, right, like you need to like, you know, do some kind of like physical education, like you can, you know, you can go to university, you can do this, you can do that. But I'm like at the time I didn't, I thought I don't want to, you know, like learn or like you know, I don't like I didn't really see where the education could take me, right? So then I ended up kind of leaving school early and then and then yeah, just kind of building stuff like that. I tried to do a little bit of electrics, but like in my heart, it was like not, you know, like sometimes when I was working on building sites and that, you know, doing the apprenticeship, and I felt in myself like this is not me. You know, in your gut, I'm like, you can just feel it, and I was like, you know what, I like I'm not doing this, and then obviously then I kind of um had a bit of time off kind of thing, and then yeah, it's kind of like maybe kind of like maybe I think like 19 or so, like I was doing like kind of electrics for two or three years, and then you know, I weren't really kind of enjoying that as a such, but then kind of started going down maybe a bit of a wrong path, you know, like hanging around with the wrong kind of people, you know, like it weren't necessarily in the right direction I wanted to go in life, and then had a kind of like a mad kind of year, and then and then yeah, then I realised like you know what, I need to, you know, like this is not me, like this whole like lifestyle that I'm kind of in, or you know, the people I'm around, and that's when I kind of like I went back into boxing. I was like, you know what? I like I remember walking down to Brentwood Youth on downwash road, they used to have the community centre down the hunting community centre, and I remember it's the summertime, whatever, and then I walked down there and I that was it really. I think I walked in the gym, I had a training session, and they said, Oh, we've got a home show in six weeks, you want to go on it, and I was like, Yeah, and then I kind of just changed my whole life from that moment, you know, like all the drinking, the partying, and I was like a like a recluse, I was like so technically you're a you're late bloomer to box to box in the 1920s, where it's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Like most kids or most people, they start when they're 10 or 11.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

So yeah, but that's but that's the thing, is that but that's the thing that I feel like where I got into it late, so like when I got in, like when I got back into the gym, I had the kind of bat, and I I knew like one, like technically, like I weren't that good. Like I really weren't like uh like I weren't like you know, like it like the boxing IQ, the um the footwork, like how you kind of pick up things, like it weren't like a natural thing for me as a such, but like I was strong and I like you know, like I had great, like to some extent, like I weren't necessarily I was never like an aggressive person. I was never like I was never like really like a like a fighter as a such. Like, you know, when you're young as a kid, you maybe have the odd fight, but I mean it weren't like I never really had fights. Do you know what I mean? I I'd always stand up for myself, but like I never really it never got to that point. Do you know what I mean? Like there was fights, but I mean it was like, yeah, it but I mean it weren't like I was fighting all the time, but I'm like um but I knew when I got into boxing, I was like, I was already behind, and I knew in myself as soon as I did it, I was like, you know what, like this is what I want to do. Like I was like, for the first time in my life, like I know what I want to do, I want to be a professional boxer, and you know, I thought I'm gonna do whatever it takes to like you know, be a be a be a world champion, be a champion. Um and then yeah, I just thought like at the time, like you know, I was like, yeah, 1920, and I just thought, oh, you know, I'll go in the amateurs for a couple years, turn pro and then start my career. And then it was like it's a whole journey, yeah. You know, the more you the more you get into it, the more you realise, like, you know, how much work has to go into it. But I was always kind of up against it because obviously, like when you are um you're having all these kind of um like bouts and that and you know the experience that a lot of the guys who come up against have been boxing since they were like, you know, 10 years old, 11 years old.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, so they've got like you said before, they've got like 20, 30 bouts, yeah, yeah. So what was your first bout like then?

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah, no, so the first bout was like I remember it because they used to have the shows at they used to have the shows at Keys Hall in Worley, like at the top of Wally, so it's like uh it's like a proper uh um like a good little venue and everyone then, you know, I used to have every all the crowd there, everyone there, and it was uh I just remember it just being wild, like everyone there, loads of nerves and everything. But I think I stopped the guy in like the second round or something, but I mean, and it was wild then down the high street afterwards for like drinks and and whatnot. Because that was like I think the like when I got into the box in the first three or four fights, the home shows that was like the routine, like go there, have the fight, and then obviously go to Bronwood afterwards and get everyone out for like drinks and stuff of that. Yeah. It was like a kind of routine how it all worked.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Because you're in that senior sort of crowd.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah, yeah, but that's what I mean. Cause everyone was like kind of like 20 years old or something, 1920s, so it was like that kind of yeah, that crowd.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

So you so you stopped your lads on your on the yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think I think I think yeah, I think I stopped him.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yeah, I think I stopped him in like the second or third round, yeah. But I mean, um, yeah, I stopped him, but it was like a good uh like I didn't have a clue. Like look, I think I watched stuff like back and I'm like, it's you know you're just swinging it's like a fight, right? Because you learn all the stuff in training, yeah. But then as soon as the role goes, you kind of like go back to like back you revert back to basics. Only with time you learn to kind of like start to control yourself and hold your composure and stuff like that, yeah. Lots of read people. Yeah, yeah, but I remember I just remember it being like you know, like just nervous and stuff like that, and just um but yeah, like afterwards just like buzzing, like you know, that whole experience from it all, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

But do you know what I didn't even know that you'd boxed so late? Yeah, yeah. Obviously, I knew I knew what you from from from working here, and then obviously when I went and boxed with the MMC and your pictures up, yeah, as Alan likes to do that. Yeah, yeah. So I I just you know the tuning people start for me from a young age.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah, no, no, that's what I mean. No, I started late, but and again, I think that's what it like, you know, that's one of the main reasons why I always like worked so hard because I knew like where I wanted to do it, it weren't just like a hobby, it was like I wanted to make a career out of it, and I knew that like I like one again, like the talent, natural talent is not there, and two, the uh like your age, like you know, you have you ain't got time to be like lazy. So as I kind of got into more into it, it's like I was just doing anything it took to kind of like you know get get the best from myself.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Yeah. So you had five, did you say five or six times for that?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

No, no problem with it. No, I had so I had so it's going back a bit, so like it may be a bit blow, but so I had I think I had like three fights, and then I had like three fights and there were like stoppages or knockouts or like you know stoppages, right? So then I couldn't get any I couldn't get any um I couldn't get any uh um bouts, you know, like on home shows. Yeah, yeah. So then it was like then I remember there was like, yes, I think I had three, and then I think this would have been my fourth, or it might have been two, and then this would have been my third, and it was like I remember them saying, Oh, there's a kid from Kent, no one will fight him. He's like just one of novices under tens or something, no one will fight him, he's knocking out everyone. No, and I was like, then I was like, I but that's the thing, I was like, gone then, yeah, and then I remember then he came in and then it was like he looked like Matt Tyson, yeah. He looked like he looked like Joe Fraser, he looked like Matt Tyson, right? And I thought, oh, like he is just built. Do you know what I mean? And he was from Ken and um Daniel, like, and again, like he had a bit like he was good, like he was good and he was fit and he was strong, and I lost to him. So like the first round, I remember like the first round, I was like, like, I was strong. I always I held the center, I was pushing him back, and that and he was moving around. And the second round, I was like, that's when I started to gas out because I never really kind of like when I was at Brentwood, it was like good training and stuff like that, but it was like it's more like a family, you know, like the Brentwood Youth, they got such a good uh amateur club, but it's more like a family. Like when I was there, it was more like you know, like all the everyone, like all the kids, everyone is like a family, right? So no one in sparring is like kind of hurting you. And when I was there, I didn't really have anyone big to kind of like push me back or to hurt me or anything like that, right? So like obviously when I had this fight, that's the first time I had a proper fight where I was like fighting for my life kind of thing, yeah. You know, like because in the second round I was gassing out, I had nothing, and then it was like then he that's when he started to come on strong, and then the third round, he won the third round, and yeah, he won the fight. But I mean, um, but that was that was a hard fight. I like after that I thought, you know what? I'm like after that fight, that's when I made the change. But that that fight there was Chev Clark, so that's like he's like a cruiserweight, like later on. Like, and I think I did do some more aspiring for later on. Like, I think he came down to Repton like a few years later, but like obviously he's like within the GB team. I think he boxed for Jamaica um in the Olympics or something like that, and like obviously he's like a cruiserweight champion now, or like an English champion now, or something like that. So, like that's the standard. Like, he was at and he was good, and then yeah, after that fight, then obviously outside of the um Brentwood youth, I was training a lot of Alex Gower, who's like a trainer, old school professional trainer, like ex-srepton boxer. So I was doing a lot of training with him in Romford at a private gym as well, like outside of the amateur club. And then I was like so I think I yeah, no, so yeah, with Brentwood, then I had that fight, and I think I boxed for the Brentwood, and I think I had two more fights because I boxed in the uh Harangay bot scalp. Yeah. So that's when I went and won that. I won the gold medal in the Harangay bot scalp. So I had I think two or three fights there, and one then. And then then yeah, then I was like, um, then yeah, that's where after I think, yeah, the loss they might have kind of, you know, like it's all mixed up, but around that kind of time, then then I was like, you know what, I'm gonna make the change. I need to hard spine, right? Like I need to like be pushed, and then that's when I kind of went Repton.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah. So the guy you're saying, Valentine, he recommends look if you want to. Yeah, yeah, because Repton, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

So I think people were saying to me, like, either like go like West Ham or go to West Ham or Repton, but like I feel like something for me, I just felt Repton. I felt like you know, I know where they're both class clubs, like you know, over this side, you know, but I'm like, for me, I don't know, something just repton it's just sounded like it just felt, you know, it's something pulled me there, innit? And then yeah, when I went repton, that was just like like a whole is like Spartans, like you know, like it's like the way they train, even the kids, it's like they're like Spartans, like the way they train and fight.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

What was your what was your your trial session like with them? Because you don't just rock up to Repton, yeah. No, you know what? Yeah, they throw you in the Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yeah, so I think when I went there, like I can't remember exactly, but I think I just went there and I think like Tony Burns, like I think I think I said, like, you know, I can't remember the exact thing, but I mean he just said like, oh, like, you know, what weight you were saying on just then probably just answered, he probably just walked off, and then you know, that's what he was quite like, and then one of the uh other trainers I think was like, you know, like show me put your bags in there and that, and then but yeah, that was hard. Like at the time I was there, it was um like a lot of light heavyweights. Like I went from having pretty much no sparring, like apart from like bits and pieces I was doing like outside of the club, to like going there, and it was like there was like six or seven like light heavyweights, like big guys, like you know, experienced guys, like punchers. Do you know what I mean? And it was just like that was this like sink or swim, you know. I probably had like two or three months training there, you know, three or four months training there was like wars, like Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You know, it weren't so much technical ability. I think like when you're there in like the the younger years, you get really kind of coached as a such. So I think like me going there as a senior kind of thing, I think it's like you kind of go there, you you better know enough now how to box kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Again, it's because they have that um what's the words? I'm trying to use your posh words, and I don't know why like assumption that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

But I mean you go there, like you come here as a beginner, you better be able to fight. Yeah, because it's like you know, like but obviously the trainers there, like there was that Gary McCarthy, and there's a guy, Joe, like uh Gary Cook, like there was some good trainers there, but I'm like the you know, that really you get flumped from, but I'm like you just like sometimes I remember sparring, they had like the big platform with a big ring, they got the big heater over the ring, and you're just cooking, yeah. And it's like the Tony Burns would just like put you in the ring with like another light heavyweight, and it's like it's all alpha. Do you know what I mean? It's like at my mindset now is I'm a totally different person to when I was then, you know. When I was like, you know, 10 years ago or something, 15 years ago, like my whole mindset was like, you know, like I was so like driven and focused and aggressive, like you know, like I wanted to be a boxer, right? Now I'm like, you know, like a dad of four, married. I'm like, you know, I'm just I'm not as competitive, but I'm like, yeah, at that time, you know, I would literally like die in a ring. I know it sounds extreme, but that was my mindset, like training or fighting. I was always like, I just I was like, you know, I would never take a backward step kind of thing. And uh, but that's the thing with the sparring, it used to be so intense. Like Tony Burns would put you in a ring and he was like just walk off. And then after like five minutes or something, the one if it was getting too like too intense, the one of the trainers would be like banging on the ring, like stop, you know, like it was crazy. But I mean it was good because it kind of like it really kind of like you know, uh like you know, toughened you up.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Brings the dog out, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

That's what I mean. It's like, and if you didn't have that in you, it's like you know, you'd rather have that in the gym because I know that you don't too much wear and tear, and there was obviously technical aspects, like you know, as well, but I'm like, you know, technical spars, but you know, you you need to know that you have it in you, you know what I mean? Because you can have all the skill in the world, but it's like you know, when it gets tough if you have that or you don't, kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I I mean I learned a lot of like a great deal, and I always always hold my own, you know, did a lot of sparring with like, you know, like like amateurs in the club that had like a lot of like experience, you know, like that Frank Buglani was there, like he was always he was on the GB team, but he used to come back every now and then and we'd spar and there was other like you know cruise uh like cruiserweights and light heavyweights that like sparring to like that's when I mean so that's when I had the uh so then that's when I was sparring and it was like then I think the I'm not sure like how it all worked out, but then it was like I think they got a phone call from England, the gym, to um I had any light heavyweights, or maybe I think the one of the light heavyweights there was due to fight for England, due to box for England, and he got ill. And then Tony Byrne said to me, like, I think this on like a Tuesday I was saying go on Monday, and he was like, Do you wanna fight Friday? Like for England. I was like, but I'd only had I'd I had I had I had had like six fights, amateurs, six amateur fights, but I was like, and then I think I was only fighting like two minutes, and then it was like these are like going into like in like open classes, you know, fight three minute rounds and that. Yeah, so I was like, but I was like, you know what, yeah, like I'm like, you know, I think that's how you have to be like ready for an opportunity, you know. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. And I was always kind of trained, I was fit, yeah. So then I said yeah, and then I think I think I said I got told on the Monday or the Tuesday, and then I boxed on the Friday.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

And what was that like?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah, it was like yeah, it was crazy. It was like, you know what, is it like uh it was vote proud, like it was like a posh venue, like um in London, like the Grove Now, something like that. It was really posh hotel, like everyone on their tables and all the suits and black tithe and kind of thing, and it was like, and it was obviously like England against Ireland, and I think I actually captained that team as well, like it was mad, it was like it was crazy. Um and then yeah, I think I thought the Irish captain, I think he had had like 38 or 48 fights or something like that. But then yeah, it was a good fight, and I beat him, so then that was like just again, it was like good, and uh yeah, like I was just kind of like pride, like I it's like you know, prior, but yeah, kind of show. But I mean it was like yeah, that was it, really.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, so Baxter England's a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yeah, I didn't get a knockout, but I mean like I was I did good, I got obviously got the win, that was the main thing, and and then yeah, then I think it was like uh and it was short notice as well, and I think then um about six or eight weeks later, or like two or three months later, then they asked for the rematch in Ireland, so that's when I flew over to Ireland with the England team. They had Anthony Drush on the England team as well, like it was a good team, and then obviously had to rematch with him in Ireland and beat him again. So that was like you know, like I proves it won't a fluke, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All his crowd and supporters and everything.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Whereas most things would have been tipped towards, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

100%. Yeah, so it must have got like a good, like convincing win, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

But it shows shows him what sort of a person you are, certainly he's a fighter, he's a boxer for someone as legends edit to Tony Burns to get a phone call from England and he picks you.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, definitely, because that's what I mean. There was like there was maybe like, you know, like six or seven, you know, good light heavyweights, and like all like most of them like more experienced than me. So like obviously to give me a lot of opportunity. Do you know what I mean? Obviously, you must have seen something in but I mean I I don't think I was necessarily like skillful as a boxer. Like, I know boxers that have always been like even like heavyweights, like really skillful. And stuff like that, but I'm then I just like you know, like I think I probably had more of a kind of pro style in it. Like I like to kind of like sit down on my punches a bit more and like you know, I weren't kind of like you know, a lot of the kind of amateur style that you like point scoring points out, hit a move kind of thing. I'd kind of like you know, want to hit there, I'd use head movement, but I'd want to hit you and kind of hit you again. Yeah, you know, like I would like I weren't I weren't backing up kind of things, but so probably like to watch it is probably more like do you think that's just common with your age and you shy? Yeah, kind of like, yeah, but no, the barbearer, yeah. But I just you know I think it's just natural, my natural kind of like you know, like obviously, like now I'm really kind of cool and placid, and I'm not really that competitive. Like even now, like with my job and stuff, you know, people do all these like hierarchies and they're ultra competitive, and but I'm now I'm like, you know, I'm like I'm really not like now I'm just chilled. I'm like so like, but then I was like more of like I'm always like if we're doing a run, I'd have to like try and run harder or run further, or I'd always like ultra competitive. Now I'm just more like I think now I'm like a lot more kind of like chilled now.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Who would you say you're competing with though? Do you think that's the same thing? Myself, I think I think myself.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

I think I think I think I was I think I just wanted to become like say a professional boxer, and I wanted to become like even though it was more like now in hindsight, we're looking back, like when I think oh to be a world champion, and you see world champions, and you see like the actual like you know, like the proper world champions, you know, the Chavez's and like the proper like the Canelo's, like they're like the pedigree, it's like you know, like the it's like from a young age and like it's all they've ever known, right? But I mean I just thought like, you know, in the dream and like the cray and the crazy dream where you're like, you know, from Rags to Riches, you come from something out of nothing, and like a late kind of bloomer, you know, like and again it's like even but even so it's like the um yeah, I just thought like I could kind of be, but that's why I was always kind of working hard just to kind of like unlock them doors, in it kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, well well, you did that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

To some extent, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Oh but you did he did though, not a lot of people can say the box with Lefton, Phillip Lens, and became a pro. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah, with yeah, with my age and my talent, yeah, but yeah, yeah. But that's what I mean. It's like because even though I turned pro, like, so even though I turned pro, it weren't like so people say, Oh, you as pro, and I'm like, Yeah, I was a pro, but more like a prospect as a such you know I mean, as in like, because when I think of pros again, like we're saying earlier, like I think of like Kev Mitchell and you know, proper, like they're being in proper fights, like you know, like stadium fights. I never really I was more like a prospect guy. I thought, you know, mainly kind of journeyman and like a couple English guys as well, like you know, because sometimes with uh uh journeyman, they're like not just like obviously like coming to lose, but it's like some they find it hard to sell tickets, right? So like obviously you go down that route, but like you always kind of like you some you give it a go, right? So I did have like some were kind of like you know, um kind of learning fights, but like a lot of the work mainly was done in amateurs.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

How how did it come about you taking pro? When did you make that decision? The goal, like now's the time to do it.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, well, no, the thing is so basically like of the so I had the England bouts and I think in total I had three three England bouts in total. I won no, so yeah, three England bouts and I won two of them, lost one, lost to the GB number two that Lawrence Suzuku, I think that's his name, like lost to him, like on a decision, and then I had like one bout for England, uh sorry, for uh London, but I think that was meant to be in an England versus Germany show, and then they changed it to a um like London versus Germany show. So that is boxed in Germany, and I boxed him and I beat him, so I beat someone from Germany as well. Also, like in the amateurs for Repton, I got selected on their team to go box in Nigeria. So I boxed over there with a Repton team, like and I had two fights there and won both fights there with Repton. So again, some like strong, like you know, like Nigerians, like they're super super strong. But yeah, but even in amateurs, so like even like for and even before I went to Repton, I boxed for the Essex team where they they selected the Essex team, they selected all from different clubs around Essex, and I got selected and I went and boxed in New York, and I won a fight over there as well. So I boxed in New York.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

So in but in boxing, I was like, I because it for Brentwood, I went over to Malta. So that's what I mean. I'm missing out a load. So like, so yeah, in for yeah, so I probably like, yeah, no, it staggered, but it's all around the same period, right? But yeah, so for Brentwood, I boxed in Malta. For Brentwood Youth I boxed in Malta, and I won there, and then obviously I boxed for Essex in New York, represented Essex in New York, one there. Then obviously one Harry and Grey Box Cup, and then obviously went to Repton, had three England bouts, and then one London bout, and then one uh then also like went to Nigeria. So I did do a bit of travelling, yeah. That's all come down there somewhere, right? Yeah, but yeah, yeah, so what when I what so like yeah, so basically, like when I was at Repton, and then again I was all even I was at Repton, right? So like, and I was older, so I'm like 22, 23, 24, you know, so I'm like, and I ain't so like and I know my goal is to turn pro, right? So like so then even so I was training at Bripton at night, so for about but all the three, four years I was training like in the daytime. So I was training like in a pros in the day, and then I was training of the amateur at night, so training twice a day, maybe three times if I'm doing like a run as well. So I was training like a and I had nothing, I was doing like bits of work here and there. Um I had like kind of a sponsor kind of helping me out a little bit with like you know, monthly, like a bit of money each month to help out with like petrol and kind of food and that obviously you guys, box it, dog like looked after me, helped me out so much with like training, wearing kit will like always give me like good discounts and top of that. So that really, really helped me out from all them years ago, you know. And Ken and that really looked after me. Um you know, I'm always grateful for that. But no, um, yeah, in the daytime training with like Jason Rollins gym doing a lot of sparring with like Tony Conquest and Um Jamie Williams as well, looking after me all the time, as like he was taking me down like Trad Tico gym, like when they used to have that in Canning Town. So I was doing loads of sparring there with Leon Williams, the cruiserweight, or even like you know, I was always doing like in the daytime, I was doing lots of sparring and training in the daytime and then so you'd almost train in the Yeah, yeah, Lager Pro, and then yeah, and then even that's it, yeah. So then obviously then I was training like Tony Simmons' gym in Haino, not the matching one, the Hainock one. So I was doing loads of sparring there, like loads. I was pretty much training there three or four times a week in a day. So I was like going there, doing sparring loads around with John Ryder, you know, Diane Barker, like and all the time they used to bring like different people into the gym, they'd be like cruiserweights and like heavyweights, so this one from like Colchester, and you know, this sparring everyone, and um, you know, hard sparring, hard, like you know, hard sparring there. But then, yeah, always doing well and like holding my own to some extent. And then I remember then it was like the ABAs coming around. So I was there, I'd won the Harangay Box car, but I didn't do because I had the England bow, I couldn't do the under under 10 novices because I had an England battle in the night, so I couldn't do the novices, so then um then the ABAs, and then I remember so that it was like the Northeast Divs, so you know, I had to box two teammates, Simon Lewis and Uma Sadiq. So like I thought that Uma was a harder one, you know, because even he did well, even I think he fought for like a world title as well. So he did really well as well, but like later on in his career, but like and Simon, I I I just thought like Simon the South were really awkward really fast, but I just thought I'm gonna walk through him. I literally thought in my head, like, and he stopped sparring, like so like even though we're all in the three of us in the same, we knew we were gonna probably fight each other, and then um we're all um he stopped training with us about six weeks. He started training somewhere else. So he stopped sparring, and I just thought he's like he don't want to like you know, nerves, whatever, but like he was smart, so then when I thought I literally thought I was more worried about boxing Umar because I thought he's gonna be a harder fight. So then obviously I boxed Umar and I beat him, right? And then obviously two fights in the same night, right? Yeah, and then with with Simon, I literally thought like I had like I remember like I had this is like to win the Northeast Ives and then go on to whatever the next round. And I I literally thought like I just thought like obviously like I just thought I was gonna beat him. I had no nerves, no butterflies. You know, before you fight, I'm like you have some kind of nerves and it kind of makes you sharp, right? It locks you in. And I remember I was just like, maybe that just comes from experience, you know what I mean? Like where I didn't really have that much experience, right? But I just thought like I had no nerves. I thought I'm literally gonna just like stop him and walk through him, and then but he couldn't knew me, so he didn't, he was like, you know, like he was a hit and hold, hit and hold, hit and hold, like hit and move, and then yeah, he he won it on points and I was gutted. So I didn't win the ABAs or like didn't get through to any like yeah, and then I was like, I think I was like 25. So then I was like, it's gonna now and never, like I like I'm not I can't do another season, like I can't do another season. Um so then yeah, then it was like because I couldn't and also like then so like yeah, that's when I was like, you know what, I'm gonna turn pro and then I went pro with Jamie Williams as my trainer. He was like a new trainer, but like he is someone that like for the couple years prior, like along with like the Alex Gower and stuff like that, they'd put a lot of like effort and out of hours time into me, you know, um really really helped, you know, me come on, um, you know, Jamie taking me to all the gyms in the morning, all the sparring, and you know, doing all the pad work with me and the coaching in the daytime. And then, you know, I really like, you know, like you know, someone is like a lot of trust, you know, like good in, like, I know he would look after me kind of thing. Yeah. And then obviously, but I was doing a lot of training at Tony Sims' gym. So like Tony Sims was my and then when I turned pro, he was my manager. So he was my manager, and then obviously Jamie was my trainer. But then I couldn't go to like an Eddie Hearn or anyone like that for like a contract to sign with a match for him because obviously I hadn't won anything really, you know. Like I hadn't won, um I hadn't won like I'm not an ABA champion or anything like that. I was like, so like I really had nothing, so I had to go on like a ticket deal. Like, because in the amateurs I had 19, only had 19 fights and 16 wins. But obviously, like from like seven fights or like six or seven fights on, they were all kind of like like international open class fights, so all like hard fights, like but I mean, um, but yeah, so I went on a ticket deal and then um that's how I kind of like that's what made me really turn, like mainly the age. I was like, I'm 25 now. I thought like it's like kind of now and ever. Like I really like that's what I mean. Like when I started boxing, like when I was like 19 or 20, I thought, you know, have amateurs for a couple years, learn how to box a bit, then turn pro. And then it was like, you know, six or seven years later, I was like, I need another 10 years. You know, if I was younger, I need another, like you don't realise like how much I know there's probably a handful of people that naturally like you know, hand to stone, and they're just like they've got it. But I mean, for me, I'm like, I probably needed a lot more experience, you know. Like, but I mean it was at the age, and yeah, so that's when I turned pro.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

So you see you turned pro and had your debut at York with most people do this next year. Yeah, yeah. What was that like? That night.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, yeah. It was like, no, so actually, like, so the thing is so like my first pro. So this man, I was started like I was on like the the bottom. So my first one I was on the um it was a Sunday show. Sunday, Sunday, Miranda Carter. So it was a Sunday, Sunday woman, uh female promoter, but it was a Sunday show. Um, my debut. Um, but yeah, it was amazing. It was like obviously you'll call, you're cool, so like regardless, it was like your cool. And I but I remember it was like such a good time. It was like, you know, um, because even before that, we went to Spain, so like Jamie Williams, like there's Chris had you do, because that's another reason, like a massive like, you know, um, you know, inspiration to me as well. Chris had you do a obviously professional boxer, like been around a long time, and I like he obviously from the same area as me area as me, you know, a few years older, but like he had the like he was like a kind of like a like a like a got me into boxing as well, like you know, like kind of like within he was he was a boxer in the area, like yeah, yeah. Somebody locked up to you, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he went and he always looked after me, you know, always advice and stuff like that. So yeah, he was someone that's like a big part of my boxing. Um you know, like got me into boxing. But um, yeah, so the us, there was like Jamie Williams, like Chris had you do. I think there was about eight of us or something, went to Spain before my debut, like and had a week over there, you know, running up. We had like a I think it's like a Sam story, like an ex-pro boxer, like you've got like a training camp facility over there, you know, like where they take you on, like we had a villa, but like they take you on mountain runs and trail runs in the morning, then you come back and then you train in the daytime, or like the afternoon, like in the day in the afternoons, you're chilling around the pool, then you go back to the boxing in the boxing gym in the afternoon. So when I had that, I was like living a dream, like training twice a day, running up mountains, I love all that. Yeah, you know, for me, that's uh more than the fighting. I love the the training, you know. If I could like I think that's the main aspect of like I didn't like obviously I know that you have the you know the buzz of the you know the fights and I never made it to like the big, big, big, big nights. But I'm like, you know, I know it's like you know, um, feel like a gladiator kind of thing, and like, you know, the buzz must be like unreal, but like more than me, it's like I just love the training and the lifestyle, you know. I love the just that was one thing I really like. I didn't hate training, I love training, you know. Um, but yeah, no, no. So yeah, then obviously you had that training can come back. So in the amateur, I used to box light heavyweight, and I used to be like, there's no way I could I couldn't get down to 75 kilo. I was like, no way, no way, no way. And I'm eating healthy, but I didn't realise when I turned pro, then I was super middleweight. I dropped the weight, like I've got a nutritionist, give me a diet plan. Because I used to think like like just stop eating takeaways and stuff like that, you know, like you're having big bowls of pasta, you know, like like you said, you just you don't understand calories and stuff like that, right? So I'm like, you know, even though I'm dieting, I'm having like a big spaghetti ball and it's like nothing's like nothing's uh weighed out or measured, or yeah, you know, like loads of pasta, loads of cheese and everything. So um, yeah, then I and I got lean. So really, like I'm not a big guy, like really, I should have been like uh sued middleweight in the amateurs. Because every time I used to fight um in the amateurs, I always used to go to the venue and like sometimes I didn't really know who I was fighting, or I knew a name and record, but I didn't know like the person. But then I'll just always look for the biggest person. I'd always be like, right, that must be my guy, like it'd always be like because I'm 5'11, right? And then it'd always be like some guy that's like 6'3, you know, 6'2, 6'3, yeah, but like Bill, you know, I've got small casts and stuff like that. It'd always be someone like with like like you know, like solid legs, yeah, you know, like like like solid frame, and I'm like, how the hell is he the same weight as me? Yeah, I'm like that. I'm like that how? I'm like, how? I'm like, do you know what I mean? There's because I'm like, but there's always a way, always a way, but then it's like, but then yeah, I don't know, maybe I just got more muscle, more dense.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

But always people fighting big guys, or maybe because he didn't need scatterbum nays, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

But then yeah, I turned then it was great. I had the training camp and I had nutritionists and then obviously the weight dropped, and obviously, when you turn pro, then obviously the whole training really kind of like changed, and like you training harder now, and you know, then I was doing loads of like um, you know, yeah, it's a great experience like there with the crowd at the uh Yulka, and um, but yeah, it's just it just felt good, like coming here, getting my kit done, you know, like you know, like uh my red and white kit. Um, but yeah, it just I loved it, you know. And it was like the first time I know the amateurs now they the open class whatever they don't wear headguards, right? But like when I was amateur, we had to wear headguards, yeah. And it felt so good not wearing headguards, you know, you can suddenly see everything now before you're kind of like looking through like fancy movie lads better with the city. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but exactly, exactly. You know what? It's like, and you know, 100%, you're more sharper. You could yeah, I much preferred it, and that, but yeah, it was like a buzz, like coming out to the music and everyone there, and like, I mean, it was like I loved it. Like, it was obviously nervous, like do you know when you're in the change of room to four and you're thinking, like, why am I doing this? Like, you know, what the fuck have I doing there? Yeah, but then it's like, but then yeah, you just you just go out and then it's like it was just it was great. Yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Did you get the advice from Jamie? The all trainers give their fighters on their debut that you only get one, so enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yeah, yeah, I think so. To be fair, yeah, yeah. It would have been something like that. It would have been good advice, but yeah, like soak it up and stuff like that. But yeah, no, it was uh on your pro debut.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Did did you find straight away from the off the whoa, the pros is totally different to the amateurs, or because of the way you boxed, did you think I'm shooting for this?

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. So, like obviously, like having that first fight, it was um yeah, I I uh the my style didn't change because obviously, but the thing is I probably found my amateurs actually harder because obviously, even though it's like I was always fighting that kind of, yeah, but I was always kind of fighting the same kind of similar style, whereas in like say the amateurs, amateurs like the kids and that, they'd be like, you know, on their toes and like you know, like hands low and you know, like pinging off the shots and that and moving and that, but like I was more kind of like a tight guard and like more pressure for as to some extent, like I'd use my jab, but I mean I was more like you know, like I wanted to kind of engage kind of thing, and um the same with the pro, but it's more of like I find the amateur harder because of like again, I didn't make it like up to like you know, to like a master's belt or southern area belt. So like obviously then that would have been a lot that that was my goal, that would have been a lot harder. Like where say I thought like I fought a couple of like two English guys, like one Welsh guy and one London guy, whatever, like, and they was tough fights. But I mean like you know, like it the amateurs was harder because it's like 50-50, you know, like where I was more like a prospect or more like you know, the first few fights you're just getting, you know, like so it's more like you're meant to, you're meant you're expected to win, yeah, but you're expected to win, right? Yeah, you know, versus like even though they're coming out, it's like you're expected to win. So typically but typically in the amateurs, like all my fights, I was expected to lose. You know, every every time I went to the amateur fight, I was always like, I was always like, you know, like fighting someone with like have 20, 30, 40, 50 fights. And now that like, you know, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve fights. So then they're they're like, you know, like they're like, you know, like, you know, like big records or you know, on the GB team or like, and then obviously I've gone to fighting someone that's like, you know, like I'm now I'm expected to win. But then obviously, like the training, I was doing a lot of training at Tony Sims' gym. So I was doing a load of spiraling with Darren Barker, you know, um a lot of sparring with spiraling with you know John Ryder. I was doing spiral with Tony Conquest and all these different pros are like it was like hard sparring. So you know, like when I was in when I got to the my profiles, I was like, you know, um, like I felt like you know, like it was like I felt like good in there. Do you know what I mean? Like I was used to it, I'd done the work kind of thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

So you had you had you had five profites, you knocked four of them out, yeah. You won one of them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Or like yeah, knockouts and stoppages, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yeah, so when when you started having to say you were like, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna box, I'm gonna turn professional. When you turn professional, what was your aspirations?

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Well, that's the thing. So, like, obviously, my main goal is always to be like, like I said earlier, it's like I know it's maybe a bit of a pipe dream, or like, you know, like when you look back now, I'm like to achieve that is like not gonna happen. But like at the time, like you know, I believed in myself so much, I was like, believe me, like somehow, some way, because sometimes it's like you can be a world champion, say, but it's like, or like a like um, like a European champion or a British champion, like, because sometimes it's like who has the belt at the time, like you could be fighting someone like a Joe Kazagi, or like you know, like an all-time great, or it could be like depending on who has a belt, because you can work your way up, but it's like I I my main goal was to be like a world champion in my head, and I thought I want to go to America, I want to train in Vegas, I want to do all this, do all that, and like you know, that's the dream to one day, you know, box on like you know, like a like a Vegas show or like a something like that, right? Um but uh that so that was my main goal, like that was like the pinnacle, like and I just wanted to be like a professional athlete, I wanted to be a full-time boxer, and like you know, if you had to like afford to live that lifestyle, yeah. You know, like if you could afford to obviously like you know be a be able to afford to be a full-time athlete, but you achieved that no no I didn't, no, I didn't I've got yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

You achieved becoming a professional athlete, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, five and all prospect, making a name of yourself, yeah, yeah. So what changed?

SPEAKER_02 43:06

So the thing is, is like obviously, so like when I when I box, right? So that's what I mean. So it's like two different people now because like me now and me then, and even like say like say like 10 years before I boxed, or like before I turned pro, like, you know, when I was like young, I was like, because when I was younger, again, I was always a good kid, always respectful. My mum raised me like you know, like with a good heart, and like no, I know right from wrong, but I mean I was like maybe not the best, like you know, I struggled with emotions and controlling myself to some extent. So like I didn't do well in school and I I got expelled, and you know, then I got like you know, um went down a kind of wrong path at some stage, you know, with the wrong people, and you know, stuff like that. And it's like then obviously, then if you look at me in the boxing era, I was like totally I was like super like dedicated, disciplined, super healthy, like kind of like you know, like a hermit, all I did was train, and then obviously. If you look at me now, I'm like to different stages, right? But I'm like, um what do what do you mean? Like what changed with or what what where the stop kind of boxing? Because that's thing that when I so basically when I boxed, I was like, when I boxed, I was like, I was such a hermit, like such a hermit. Like, like all I did was train. Because I knew one, I was like, I was like older, like you know, I was like 25, 26, whatever. So I was like, look, I ain't got time to mess around, like, and then obviously, um, and then again, like that skill, the talent, like I knew I had to still work, like I had so much more to learn. I didn't have necessarily the time to like when it was like friends' birthdays or like people going on holiday, I wouldn't go to birthdays, I wouldn't like and at the time I didn't have no money anyway. Like I lived at my mum's house, I had like an old kind of car, I had enough money to like train and travel. That was it. You know what I mean? I was literally like I didn't really have any money to like have necessarily like girlfriends and stuff like that. I was literally like so like locked in, and it was like that for like seven, eight years or something, or like you know, kind of from like 20 to 21 to kind of 26. Yeah, but I'm like it was getting to the point where it was like selling tickets, right? So, you know, like obviously all the time I'm like friend's birthday, and I'm like, nah, I can't. I've got to train in the morning, I'm running, and then it's like then you gotta sell tickets, you gotta sell 100 tickets for a fight, and then it's like you know, then you gotta like sell your tickets, and then it's like, hey, can you come to my show? And then it's like, oh, like, oh, I'm busy, you know, like it's harder to sell tickets because I weren't out there, right? Yeah, and it's like um, but then now obviously it'd be totally different. So like now, obviously, where I'm a personal trainer, like I do boot camps, you know. I'm out, I've got friends, I've got a community of people, yeah. You know, it's like, but then I was like, no one see me. Like, unless you was like, you see me uh running on the road or you're in a boxing gym, you wouldn't see me. But I was trying to be like a Marvin Hagler or something like that, like you know, like ultra dedicated. But the same with boxing, it's kind of like a business as well. You have to like you can win, but you have to sell tickets as well.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

That's the dark side of boxing that people don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Yeah, but it's all right. If you're like if you're like a like you know, you do great in the amateurs, and you know you got you got a purses, and you know, you sign with a big promoter, and then you get your you know, you get looked after, but like if you're like selling tickets, like and again, like I said, like it was me, like I didn't have brothers or sisters, I didn't have necessarily like I've removed myself from all the friends kind of that I had. So I was like, you know, like it was like you know, to selling tickets, it was like it was hard. Yeah, so it's kind of like I was selling tickets, but a lot of the time, like I think my last kind of two fights I didn't even really get paid, I think it just broke even. You know, the time you get the money and then like you pay the opponent or you're the promoter.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

That's the dark side that people don't see you've dedicated half half your life to this, and you know, and you and you're breaking even. And this is what frustrates me about the state the boxing's in now, and it is in a state, I don't care what people say. You know, you've got the former WBC heavyweight champion in the world, yeah, picking who he's trying who he's choosing to fight.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

That's that should never be allowed. He's doing it for the money and all these things let go about now. But I just think people like yourself, you know, Billy Longs of the world, there must be so many people that have a fell at the wayside because the dark side of boxing is just you know, look, we get the special people that come along, the AJs that win Olympic goals, yes, they deserve to be up there on a pedestal, but don't forget about the grassreets of boxing and the people coming through. Yeah, and I almost think like boxing should change. If you're a professional footballer, yeah, you're given a contract and you paid for that. Regardless if you look at the some rubbish pros, they're still getting the wage, and I think these promoters and things but I think it's like but I think it's like in like in America though, they get like I don't think they I don't think they have to sell tickets.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

I don't think I swear in America it was like probably not but I swear in America like if you're signed to like a promoter or something like that, you they put you on shows, like you know that you don't bait just that on ticket sales kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Look, I appreciate that it's a business, I get that, but you're putting your life on the line, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And you and you're breaking even enough.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Yeah, but you know what, but you know what? It weren't even like it weren't even like um, you know, it like I don't like it wasn't even about the money, like I couldn't like care. Like even like you know, like even like what I do now is some extent, like you know, like training people, whatever, like some of the clients I have are like like I enjoy training them, we such like good, like they train hard. It's like you know, like I was training for three if I could afford to. Like my wife wouldn't allow that, but I'm like, it's not even I do what I do because I love what I do, and it's like what is it? My my main goal, like I said, like was like to be like I was looking thing to be a champion as such, but it's like it wasn't necessarily about the money, it's more about the lifestyle, you know. Like if I could like even now, like it's not about like where I train and stuff like that, like where I work, it's like I just need obviously money to like you know keep a roof over my head and look after the family, look after my kids and stuff like that. But it's like I don't necessarily do it for like as a I need the money, but it's like that's not like I don't want to do it so I can like buy this 20 grand watch or buy this or like as long as but I mean it's the thing that you know where you go on holiday with the family and that you want money for that, or like you don't want to be kind of stressing about bills and that, yeah, you want to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, but but I mean that's what I mean, and that's the thing with boxing. It was like it was like I wanted to like, it was never like oh, I wanted to be like I want to earn like you know, I know everyone has different motivations, but I weren't bothered about I weren't like I want to get like a Lamborghini or like a Rolls Royce or anything, it's more like I just want to be like I want to have that lifestyle, I want to be a champion, I want to kind of like I'm gonna play Tavas advocates with you then if if someone did offer you what I just said, like they did a contract and you were paid, you probably still would continue as a pro, wouldn't you? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So I know the money's not everything, but I think that's I think about I think that's what kind of got that that's getting on to like kind of why I kind of stopped though. Because at the time it's like again, it's like where I was getting a bit older, like I was like, I think I was like 26, I'd done my first year as a pro. I think, and again, it was harder because I think I was boxing kind of like every kind of like you know, six to eight weeks, or every eight or nine weeks, or like you know, every two or three, every two or three months I had six fights in my first year, or five fights in my first kind of year, or just over my first year, and it was like getting everyone out like constantly, like you know, like like could they keep you busy to build you up? But it was like at the same time, like you gotta keep getting everyone out, like do you know what I mean? And it was like, I think it was like one I knew that obviously I was um obviously getting older, like I was 26, all my friends are like travelling, going on holiday, they got girlfriends, they're getting houses and cars, and like I'm still living at home, like they got no money, you know, like I'm living on a dream and such, and then I was like always like you know, I'd had the fight, and then like Jamie would be like, Right, have a week off, and then I'd be in the gym on like two days later, you know. I was like obsessed. He couldn't just stop. I was always like, but then he was like, and then I was getting loads of niggles, and I'm like, you know, you're running and then you'd roll your ankle, and then like you hurt my wrist, and I couldn't punch for like you know, loads of my body was just breaking down, and I'm like, So you got to a point in your life where you were like, Yeah, I've given it to you. Yeah, but then but then but then it was like then it was like then it was like I think I got to the point like loads of little niggles with injuries, and I think you know what, it's just kind of like maybe like lost that belief in myself a bit. You know, it's like kind of like maybe the doubt and stuff like that. Maybe I you know I lost that kind of belief where I was like, I thought I could be a champion or I thought I could be like a star kind of thing, you know, like I could make this as like a full-time kind of career, like a like a job kind of thing, right? And then um, but yeah, but then and then that's kind of when I kind of like I left, I stopped.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Do you think do you think if you didn't stop, obviously you you probably still have the life you got now?

SPEAKER_02 51:45

You no, but you know what, it's like I don't know, I don't know. You know what I'm like, but everything happens for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

I'm like yeah, yeah, but you know what?

SPEAKER_02 51:52

And it's like believe me, I'm like, um I like you know, it's hard now with all the kids I've got, but I'm like uh every day, like I have moments where I just like you know, with the with my wife and my kids, I'm like, you know, I'm just so grateful, you know. I don't know if I would have met my wife, you know, and if I would have had all the kids.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

And looking right back, do you wish you started sooner boxing?

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Yeah, so as you're young kids, yeah. So like obviously, I wish, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I feel like so I raised my mum, my name, my granddad, right? And obviously, my mum loved me a lot too much. Mum was too nice to me, no discipline, all love. You know, like it's like I couldn't do no wrong. So you know, like even if I got suspended from school, oh what you know, you're alright, what do they do to upset you? You know, like you need like a you need like a telling off, right? I was like, but yeah, so like the thing is is that I feel like maybe when I was younger, like in terms of the um boxing is so good, you know, like because sometimes it's like if so a kid is like I would say boxing is great and it's so important as part of a community, right? To have like a boxing gym. And I feel like sometimes it's like that's why it's so good what Billy Long does with his gym and chum third, it's like really good. And I know Jamie has that new city boxing uh with Legends Gym and everything, it's so good because I feel like you know what? It's like kids that are maybe you know, like lacking the kind of um confidence, uh direction in life, you know, like it's like that can really help build a person and build a character, you know, give you that confidence, you know, that self-defense, you know, and it's like and even if someone is more like an aggressive bully, you know, send them there if your kid is naughty because you know what, it's like it's gonna teach them respect, and it's like you know, you kind of like you know, like you learn how to control your yourself and your emotions, and you get respect and you get you know getting told what to do. Yeah, so like you know, I think boxing gyms are like so important, and I was so I do wish, yeah, when I was younger, I wish when I went there that when I said to my mum, like, I don't want to go on a Friday night because I want to go down the park, I wish you would have said no, you're going, you're going. Like you ain't like, you know, like drag me there, yeah. Because like, you know, like you know, like at the time of like, you know, like it's like all those all I was doing is going down the park and then like drinking or getting up to no good kind of thing, right? And it's like wasted years, wasted, wasted, and it's like, you know, we could have like, even if it ain't like a question of all winning titles or anything like that, but it's just kind of giving me that kind of discipline and that structure as a kid, you know, and that would have that would have just developed me more as a man, like you know, as a person, right? So, yeah, so obviously I had that, but I had it later on. So I had that kind of structure and discipline, but that came at like say 19, yeah. When that could have come at like say 10 or 11 or 12, when I probably needed it because my teenage years was probably when I was most wild, yeah. Do you know what I mean? So like the boxing is so important to uh, you know, really give your kids that discipline, you know, that that keep that obviously keeps them healthy, and uh, you know, like just kind of like a bit of kind of uh you respect. You know, when you're in the gym, one place I will say, like, I work in a weight training gym, and like, you know, you always get like the a good place, but you always get egos and people like like with a bit of attitude and stuff like that, and it's like like why like people here just to work out and get fit, like no one wants no trouble, like why, like why? But then it's like you know, I never been in a boxing gym and I've never had any egos. The you the hardest people and the most dangerous people are the most kindest, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 55:19

And the people with the ego is getting punched up.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Yeah, but that's what I mean, but that's actually so you don't you don't get it, but that's what I mean. So one thing to the boxing gyms are like, yeah, it's um is there something you're gonna pass on to you, Sean? Yeah, but I mean, yeah, so maybe like I always want him to do kind of like something, like I'd always want him to do like my wife don't let me, I'll try to do little bits of padwork with them, and she don't let me do it. Yeah, because then they all my kids they start punching each other.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

So she won't let me pocket, she won't let me do boxing with them. But I'm like, but so he does a little bit of football and that, but I'm like, and my girls do cheerleading. Yeah, so like but what I will do is the uh like you know, like say when he gets a bit older, like if he starts, like if he starts like in school interest too. Yeah, but no, but even no, but if he starts like say being naughty, that if he starts being naughty like in school or like there's lack of concentration, or if we start anything bad, or if it like I would take him to the boxing gym because I feel like it's a great place to kind of like teach him some discipline and he will and it will change him, and like or if he's older, you know, if he maybe 13, 14, and he's like maybe again in trouble, or if he's like maybe I don't know, maybe he might if he's like not confident, you know. I take him to the gym because I know it would bring out that confidence in him. Yeah, so like, but I mean I'm not gonna force it. I'm not like he's not like say, like, he's five now, and I'm not gonna be like, you know, like I can't my wife wouldn't let me teach him punching and that. Yeah, I do I do like you know, like now and then when she's not around, but I'm like, I can't do yeah, too much, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I'm like, but no, I'm grateful for the um, but yeah, maybe I'll get him into it, yeah, at a later stage.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

So tell all the work you do now, so you retired as a pro, you've had been for the past yeah, 10 years, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

So yeah, yeah, so about yeah, like 10, yeah, no, like probably like no, no, no, like 13 years or something. 13 years. So and that now you've built this career and and yeah, because well because what I would say is quickly though, is like with the professional boxing, it's like even though I was a pro, I wouldn't have been like my I would have thought that I would have loved to have thought that I could have been like my realistically, I feel like I if I I could have been I would have loved to have fought for like obviously a southern area, yeah. And then maybe that would have I feel like looking back now, I would have loved to have fought for like a southern area. I feel like I could have done that, maybe one that and then obviously if you've got a southern area, you can like depending who has the belt and what like I could have fought for a British title. That would have been if I could have done that, that's my even now, like I'm 38 now, right? And then maybe for like the last five or six years, or probably since I'm 30, every year I've gone back to Jamie, done a couple of sessions, done a couple, like, and then all maybe, like, maybe, like, you know, like I'm like, you know, like I'm I know I'm like, because I'm five and oh, so I've always felt like you know, like if you give yourself like say, um, even if I had a year to like, you know, get back sparring training, you know, you could have a couple fights, maybe like six and seven, eight and oh, maybe, and then like obviously now I've got like we're personal training, I've got like you know, more network of people, but more of like support. So I could definitely sell tickets now more. Like we've got a lot more kind of like friends and everyone. So like, but yeah, I'm like every year's the same thing. Then obviously, then we've had like another baby, or like you know, like it's hard to kind of as you get older, yeah, yeah, life. But I'm like, because even with that, like that uh Johnny uh Clark, yeah, yeah, he does some wicked shows at the Bremen Center, but we never had that. Like again, I'm Brimwood. No, but I'm Bremen. So I was like going to like I was boxing on like obviously the Sunday shows. I boxed in like a match room undercard, the prize fighter. You know, they used to do the prize fire, yeah. So I boxing the undercard and one of them, but yeah, it was more of like um, but yeah, the Johnny Clark shows are like wicked. I've seen them and they're wicked, and they're like the Bremen Center that's like right on my doorstep, my area. That's what I mean. And I've got like so I always feel like oh, but I'm like, yeah, every time I go back and then I start training, I'm like, you know, start getting all these random injuries. I'm like, how do you even get that? I'm like, or you're in there with the younger kids and they're like so so sharp and so hungry, and like and I'm like, oh I don't know. Yeah, but yeah, I am gutted that even now.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

I'm like, you know, like I always think I've got kind of it must be, and it's always that thing of you questioning yourself, oh what if if it stays on the biggest thing?

SPEAKER_02 59:28

Because that'll be again though, I I wouldn't have said oh to go back to be like oh to be a world champion, but I'd have loved to have fought. I'd in myself I'd have put in so much work and sacrifice. I'd love to have just like you know, like win or lose, like just to be in like a like a hard kind of like or like you know, like a competitive 10 rounder, or like you know, like really kind of feel like a proper, proper pro in it, like being like a but like a competitive hard fight, but then again, it's like everything happens for a reason, and I'm like kind of left with like you know all my senses, and it's led me onto the path with of the personal training. So I have to take that into kind of like consideration.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Yeah, you do, and I and I'm a big believer in everything does happen for reasons, but you you you set out to boxing the amateurs and saying pro, so you achieved your teams, yeah. It doesn't matter whether you had one and or five hundred, you you went in, yeah. No, no, I appreciate that. Yeah, so you know it's massive props to you if the attitude and the determination to go and change your dreams because a lot of people think their dreams are too far away, unbeachable. But uh even at your age, back then you were like, nah, nah, I'm gonna go to it, and you did it, lads. Don't beat yourself up about it. Yeah, no, that's it. Don't beat yourself up about it. So personal training, you've been doing the past 12, 12 or so years. What sort of a personal training are you? Are you so like a boxing trainer heads? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

You know what? So, like the first uh the first kind of maybe like because I went straight in up because even though when I was doing boxing for a couple like the last year pre uh like I was using the gym like twice a week to train clients, you know, like obviously I wasn't qualified PT, but I was like padding people doing circuits and that. So when I went when I got qualified as a personal trainer, I pretty much went full-time PT because I already had about five or six clients. Yeah. So then the first maybe like two or three years of personal training, I was like heavily boxing, like a lot more pad work, circuit, and my whole mindset was very much like beasting people, you know, like hard circuits, hard conditioning, and like like it's very different. Then over then it was like then obviously working in a commercial gym, like you know, you have normal lifestyle clients that like you know just want to kind of like lose some body fat, build some muscle, um, you know, like you know, more and obviously nutritional advice and stuff like that. So then I started to kind of like invest in working with like a bodybuilding coach over a couple years, like did some photo shoots, you know, like so I learned how to kind of like do diet plans and meal plans and training, weight training plans and kind of like more physique, so like you know, losing body fat for a photo shoot and that. Yeah, and then over time, so like maybe then it then slowly, gradually, I started doing less pad work and more weight training. And then yeah, the now I don't do any pad work really. The odd pad work, but I'm like the odd, but I'm like, I don't really market myself for pad work. I'm like I'm more of like say like I'm more focused more on now of like more kind of transformations and maintenance. So like more of like if you come to me and you want a kind of body transformation, or if you want to kind of you've got a holiday or wedding, or even if you're like my a lot of my but some of my clients have trained for like eight, nine, ten years. Like if they've been moved from the beginning, so it's like they have periods where they train for like occasions, but like a lot of the time it's just like you know, just not like everyday kind of lifestyle, yeah. So I'm like I'm more like relaxed, like you know, like I'm done. I I like push people and but I'm like yeah, not not to the point where I'm like, you know, like do or die kind of thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like some people do want to be pushed that hard and others just kind of want to like you know like relax, yeah. Because other yeah, but other people they have like they might train in the morning and they've got a full day at work, yeah, yeah. People are running companies and yeah, and they got kids and stuff that they don't need to like wipe themselves out, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

So but you just said there that um you've sort of died down doing it, doing the uh pad work and things, you don't do much, but I'm sure after your clients and future clients listen to this, they'll maybe, yeah, maybe yeah, yeah, all the buttons, maybe cheaper.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

But I didn't know you did pad work, I didn't know you boxed. But no, but you know what I do, even myself, like that's where I've been like the last couple years, especially. Like I've been more heavily weight training and kind of like more like bodybuilding, kind of yeah. But I like I like regardless of the fighting, I miss the boxing training, and I don't I don't think you can beat it in terms of like like sharpness, you know, like just your body, the mobility, like you know, and it's like bodybuilding, yeah, exactly. And it's like and you're fit and you're healthy, and it's like I do miss it, but it's harder now just with the time because where I am in Brentwood, there's not really any boxing gyms, you know. Like obviously, I've got like Bill Long's in Shelter, I've got Jamie's in kind of Dagnum, yeah, and I'm in the middle, but like obviously I've got to split my time between work and clients and family and school runs and everything because I don't really have time to like kind of like like I can do a run and stuff like that, but it's like oh I can do like my own little kind of circuits, but I do miss being in the gym like with the pad work and you know, like if you do some like light sparring and stuff like that, I do I do miss that because um that whole kind of training is like you know when you feel sharp, especially now like you're a dad, stuff like that. You always want to be able to make sure that you're you know you're able to protect your family, right? You know, like you know, you know, you know, you you don't if you that's what I'm always in that mindset, you want to stay sharp, right? Yeah, you know, when I got kids and stuff like that in the world we live in now, it's like you always just want to I think the boxing or something like along them lines that you everyone needs to like you know stay sharp.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Mighty too, massively. And Mike, it's been a pleasure having you on listening to your story, right? No, no, it's been good speaking. That's why I love these podcasts. You always learn something new about people, and like I said, I didn't know that you were such a late breemer. And you're not gonna probably like this, but I I think you're an inspiration, mate, because you look at the career that you had within boxing, yeah, yeah. And and you started late. Yeah, you know what I mean? So people can look up to you and go, Well, if you could if he could then I I'll start and yeah, and I'll do it. So it's been a pleasure to do that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

I know we've been talking a lot, and uh, thank you for having me on. And yeah, we're we're do part two, yeah. We'll do part we're due to we'll do part two.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:23

These podcasts are always open, lads. So they're always open for people to come on again. So when you have your next profite and you come back, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

Okay, mate, cheers. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Guys, they hope you enjoyed that episode just as much as I did there. Uh he's a he's a great fella there, and and you know, check out some of his his um Instagram post, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

I'll fitness.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

My mind's just gone blank. I think it's the light behind me because I've turned around. But um, yeah, check out some of his um his former fights that he had, that's what I was gonna say. I'm sure they're up on YouTube. Uh you'll probably find some of his amateur fighters, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

You better know that you don't because you won't be impressed.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Oh no, I'm sure you will because he must have had some right hand on him to knock all these people out. But um but the main thing is yeah, check him out on his Instagram page, that's where he's most active for Michael Evans Fitness. Um and and reach out to me, all of you on advice on uh getting in shape or or even boxing questions. You know, he's he's a nice open open guy, and uh I'm sure he'll take the time out to uh to give you the message. So yeah, thanks again. Uh and um that light behind me, I need to change that. And if you don't give us a nice uh uh rating, uh whenever you pick up your podcast, like and subscribe on our YouTube channel. And as always, uh be prepared to step into thing I'll be first.