Inside a Domestic Abuse Charity: Coercive Control, Safety Planning & How to Leave Safely

In this episode of House of H.E.R., I’m joined by Danielle from Oasis Domestic Abuse Service a UK domestic abuse charity supporting survivors across Kent and the South East.

Danielle speaks not only as a domestic abuse partnership specialist, but also from lived experience. She understands coercive control, trauma bonds, and post-separation abuse both professionally and personally  which makes this conversation honest, grounded, and deeply real.

We talk about what domestic abuse actually looks like beyond physical violence  especially coercive control, emotional abuse, psychological manipulation, and the patterns that slowly erode your confidence.

Most importantly, we break down what happens when you reach out to a domestic abuse charity.

What is safety planning?
 What is a DASH risk assessment?
 What is MARAC?
 Do you have to report to the police to get help?
 What happens if you have children?
 How does refuge support actually work?

If you are thinking about leaving an abusive relationship or supporting someone who is  this episode explains the practical steps, risks, and protections available in the UK.

Leaving can be the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship. But you do not have to do it alone.

This episode is for anyone experiencing domestic abuse, coercive control, trauma bonding, and for those who want to understand how domestic abuse charities support survivors behind the scenes.

UK Domestic Abuse Support Links

Oasis Domestic Abuse Service (Kent & South East)
 Website: https://www.oasisdaservice.org

Helpline: 01702 302333

Hollie Guard Personal Safety App
 Download here: https://hollieguard.com

If you are in immediate danger, call 999.

You are not alone.
 Support is available.
 Love should never hurt.

House of H.E.R. is a space for women who have lived through abuse, trauma, and relationships that broke them. This podcast exists to tell the truth, raise awareness around domestic abuse, and remind you that you are not alone in what you’re healing from.

Follow @houseofher__ and my personal account @holliedowdingx on Instagram and please share this episode with a woman who might need it 🥀

Transcript

Hollie 0:35

So, before we start, I'm just going to do a quick trigger warning. So, in this episode, we talk openly about domestic abuse, including emotional and physical harm, trauma and recovery. This conversation may be upsetting or triggering for some listeners, so please take care while listening and make sure you pause and step away if you need to. If the topics affect you personally, support is available in the show notes and you don't have to go through this alone. Hi guys, welcome back to The House of Hair, the home of becoming the most healed, empowered, rich version of yourself. This is episode five, and today we are joined by a very special guest, um Danielle. Hi. Hi. So, Danielle, she's going to tell you a little bit about her in a minute, but what I wanted to do with this episode and why I feel like this episode is so important is I have spoken a lot from a lived experience, and I feel like what we then needed was someone not only who has had also lived experience, but is also a specialist within the domestic abuse field. Um, and yeah, here we are. Um, so thank you so much for coming on the House of Fair podcast. Um, this is Danielle's first podcast as well, isn't it? We were taking her right out of her comfort zone. Um so obviously I've told them your name. Tell us a little bit about what it is that you do now within your work, who you are, what you do.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah, so I work for a charity called Oasis Domestic Abuse Service. So we are based in Kent and cover most of the southeast in that county, but we are a nationally recognised uh charity and organization who obviously supports um victims and survivors of domestic abuse and their families as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Um, my actual job title doesn't really reinforce the following job role. It's um I'm a domestic abuse partnership specialist, but basically I help develop um and create and deliver training to um professionals, yeah, um, but also raising uh wider awareness in the community and making partnerships and connections so people feel comfortable and know how to um approach Oasis and how to use the skill sets and kind of upskilling their professional um roles to carry on supporting, whether that's victims, young people, children, okay, um, and going from there, or even colleagues that they're working with in professional settings as well.

Hollie 3:07

Yeah, so do the charity they work so obviously with children as well, it's not just women coming out of relationships from the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

All genders are victims of domestic. Okay, so it's men as well. Yeah.

Hollie 3:19

Oh, amazing. Okay, I didn't actually know that. I was actually having this conversation earlier because I know like women women's aid and things like that obviously are predominantly women-based, so that's good to know that it's yeah, we we support anybody who's been impacted or a victim of domestic abuse. Okay, amazing. So, what made you obviously I've mentioned you have lived experience as well, which I guess is probably a bit challenging at times, but I think it's important because you're not, you know, well, I always say like sometimes you do hear professionals speak about it, and as much as that is so amazing, I think it's hard to understand how the brain works after domestic abuse. So that's obviously one great thing that you have is you've got that lived experience, so you probably understand, but I can imagine it's quite tough as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

It's very tough, it's very conflicting. Um, and absolutely, I think it's something that's not discussed enough. I think it's something that's quite misunderstood. Yeah. Um, having kind of historic traumatic experiences that somebody's experienced, as many of us have, yeah, yeah. Um, whether that's societal, whether it's within your direct family and your personal connections, or them intimate relationships. Um, and then obviously in my personal situation, it's um also I've had all of that, and then I had uh a very long-term marriage that I've been three years over three years separated now. Um, I've still been going through that kind of post-separation abuse as well, and the impact that's had not only on myself but on my children, and then into my career as well. Yeah, um, and that kind of ripple effect that people don't talk about when you're playing multiple roles all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Oh, you know, and as women we have to do that expectedly anyway. Anyway. Um, but then when you have to put your professional hat on, and then sometimes um I think you never kind of people really don't understand, and I didn't understand it myself until it started happening more. It's it's not so much always a trigger as such, but it's that realisation, like, oh yeah, I'm teaching other people this or I'm talking and having these conversations, but oh wait, this is this is me too I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes that can it can be.

Hollie 5:23

And also, I guess there's no switch off either. I feel like you know, sometimes it's your whole life, yeah, it's everything. And I was saying, like, even starting the podcast, I was saying to you earlier, I feel like it can be quite like when I also I think it's how many people actually have been through domestic abuse in one way or another, and how many people like came to me at the beginning, and and I found it really quite hard because at the time, obviously, when you're struggling with what you've been through personally, and then listening to everyone else's stories, and then obviously now for me as well, almost doing this as a job, it is that it's there's no switch off from it sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

You don't get to really stay and have them positions where you're just like, do you know what today's not the day? The day, yeah, it's not like today's today's gonna be the day to ourselves, yeah. Um I get that, yeah. It can be really, really conflicting, and I think as well, in in general, for I mean, I'm a big believer in the the way that I've developed myself in kind of any professional capacities. I think we were taught so much, um, like in previous, I was like I worked in local government for years, like did over 20 years of like different frontline services roles, but they were all about helping people, and there was that continuous pattern of me realising actually the way to help them is not judge them, it's not to scold them, it's to find out what's happened to them. Yeah, um, and I've kind of taken that through all my education, all my academic um experience, all my professional roles. Um, but what's really frustrating for me is there's always this narrative of you have to be your best professional self, and the way to do that is you leave your personality at the door, you leave your experiences back where they belong, don't make people feel uncomfortable, don't talk about um, you know, the things that make us human.

Hollie 7:07

Yeah, and actually, I think it's it's that's what makes you relatable. Absolutely. I think that's what makes people warm, and it's like what I said before, you know, there is so many professionals out there that do sit and talk, which is amazing, it's not, you know, knocking them or anything like that. But I think the fact that you have that lived experience. People, if I was going to someone and speaking to a specialist or going to a charity, the fact that you have that personality, the fact that you do understand from a survivor's point of view would make me feel warmer to you.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

I mean, don't get me wrong, like every role in Services Like a Racist has its place, whether you've had lived experience or not, because even your lived experience of supporting other people with lived experience, yeah, you know, especially when you're I must say, I've I've never worked with an organization, um, and there's been a few that has so much compassion and enthusiasm for helping women and helping people, yeah. Um, and everyone's got their role to play. And but yes, there is, I think, sometimes when you've been through something, having that relatable connection with somebody. Don't get me wrong, you still have to have your professional boundaries, especially when you're working with young people, you don't want to be making it about you.

Hollie 8:18

It's not that's not what it's about. Um, but I think, especially for young people, them knowing that you understand and that you've been through, if not the same, similar, is is really important as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

And I think there is a healing element to it as well, as well as the kind of tough side of it of that confliction sometimes and that distortion that we have, but it's again because going through any type of domestic abuse is is so isolating feeling. Um it's that reminder that actually when you are talking about it with people and you are discussing it, that even to yourself, it's that reminder that you're not alone, yeah. You know, you're not an island as much as it feels like it at times. And um, I think that can be reassuring as well because you you're I think any victim and survivor always has that element of self-doubt, you know, where we've got that low self-esteem that we're working up all the time. Even now I sit and think about things and I'm like, wait, am I am I making more of this in my head? Even now, I still sit and say that.

Hollie 9:20

Like, even when I went to the police and things like that, like you still I mean, I believe that I had made him the monster, or that you are overdrawn, so because that's what they make you believe, isn't it? And you do feel it's so isolating. So I think it's weird to say comforting because you don't want other people to have been through it, but it does make you feel understood and that you're not mad and crazy.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

That shared experience that that acknowledgement of the abuse and trauma that people experience at the hands of others isn't caused by ourselves and being reinforced that all the time is just so powerful, yeah, yeah, yeah. And needed all the time.

Hollie 9:57

And I've actually found um recently I've been doing a lot on TikTok, um, and I found like a lot of the messages that I've had, it's so crazy how it's almost like they all sing from the same hymn sheet, you know. Like all the I feel like a lot of the time the tactics and the behaviours and all the things, it's like so similar. Like the messages I get from girls, even about the podcast, they're like, oh my god, when I listen to this, it sounds exactly how my relationship, and it's like it is a pattern that they follow.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Absolutely, and that is such a key word as well. So when we look at coercive control, is what we're looking at as a pattern. So often, you know, things that come to light about domestic abuse, and you'll notice that I say domestic abuse and not domestic violence, and that is very purposeful because the language is important.

Hollie 10:42

Yeah, because there is two different a lot of like hashtags and things, isn't there, online?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

There is, and I think even professionals now, and the reason I'll either say domestic abuse and violence or domestic abuse is because when you say violence, what do you first think of? Yeah, you think of that physical impact, and often when we're dealing with like the police or people are reaching out for help, it's usually when there's been um uh an incident. We don't really like saying the word incident, that's something physical. That's kind of when the first people are like, Oh, this is happening. Yeah, yeah. But actually, it's that word pattern that's really, really important because it comes down from that constant power and control that the the tactics of the abuser that are using, yeah. And it is that pattern of everyday life. So we see like that snippet, you know, of of what might be something like physical violence, yeah. But then that's what people have always assumed domestic abuse is, and they miss the whole bigger picture that everything, you know, like when you see the tip of the iceberg, we see the bit and underneath, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hollie 11:36

Because a lot of the time it starts off gradually, doesn't it? But it's so mad that you say that because actually I have I've actually never even thought of that. Like, you know, when you see the hashtags and it's domestic abuse awareness, domestic violence, and I'd never actually even thought until you said now that obviously the violence is just saying it's violence, whereas abuse I guess kind of covers well, it's covering your sexual or psychological, emotional, your economic.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

That makes so much sense, you know, and of course the physical as well. But yeah, if we if we kind of change that societal narrative, yeah, we're gonna start thinking and people will notice them patterns as that preventative much earlier than if we just wait until we're reacting to a physical altercation.

Hollie 12:21

Absolutely. So when we've spoken a little bit about you having so was it your lived experience? So tell us a little bit about your past, your you know, as much as you want to, obviously. But is was it your lived experience that made you want to work in domestic abuse charity?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Definitely yes and no, but maybe maybe and me it's never a straightforward yes or no answer. So no. Um, like I say, I did multiple roles. I worked in local government and then I um kind of retrained, um, put myself a university, did master's love. My background's actually in like forensic psychology. Um, then I wanted to work more in the third sector because I felt like that's where them kind of frontline services are appreciated more. I wanted to make sure that actually people are getting that first hand experience and and learning potential for me as well, like that growth. Um, and I found that actually when I was working um on different frontline services, everybody that I'd speak to, there was that relatable element. It was like that that empathy and compassion you have for people because they were getting judgment from other services as such, um, more statutory services, in my opinion, yeah, that actually didn't look at the harm and the trauma that they've been through. It didn't look at maybe why you would often see things in um referrals and reports like you know, they refuse to engage. It's like, well, actually, it's not that they're refusing to engage, it's that they're just not safe to, and you haven't made them feel safe. So you're not understanding why and what their experience is and how they're at this place in their life. Yeah. Um, and I wanted to make sure that I could use my personal experience and my own empathy and my own academic um, you know, qualifications to kind of give a safe platform for people.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Um then I found that I was getting quite frustrated, you know, with with the thing with multi-um agency work in, it's really, really good, but you hit barriers as a professional as well. So you're getting frustrated because actually you're seeing these patterns that are actually adding on to the layers of trauma and the power imbalances that people are experiencing, which then just feeds completely into that victim-blaming narrative all the time, which then feeds into that self-blame. And then people wondering why, well, why can't you just leave or why can't you just heal on your own? You know, it doesn't work that way. So I wanted to work um with an organization and in a role that actually challenged and helped other professionals and kind of the systemic frameworks to recognise the bigger picture and the bigger matter, especially of things like coercive control and how that impacts people rather than just kind of that face value tick box knee-jerk exercise, which is what I was experiencing in in previous roles. Yeah, um, but yeah, so it was kind of part and part. Also, I think another thing that's not discussed enough is like the vicarious trauma of it, or when you're working with people day in, day out, and you know, sometimes at the lowest point of their life, it's it's such a privilege to be able to be that support for them. Oh my god. But it's also you know, it's really hard. And when you are quite an empathetic person as well, you know, you you've got nowhere to put that a lot of the time, and then you do have that relatable experience for yourself. So there does come sometimes a line where you have to as as part of my personal journey was to recognise that actually this isn't sustainable for me any longer in these direct roles, yeah. So I need to do something that's a little bit more like far-reached out there, yeah. Um to protect myself as well on my own healing journey. Yeah, so it's it's supporting in a different way and capacity.

Hollie 15:50

Okay, and do you mind talking a little bit about your like experience with you know, you mentioned, I know we spoke a little bit before we came on, um, that you've had like multiple Yeah, um, I mean, we know from you know, my story is not original in terms of the the type of excuse uh abuse that you know people experience.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Um there was quite a lot of um unhealthy family connections, like when I was a young child, but again, you just kind of it's all normalized, isn't it, within your household and things. And I had quite a turbulent um adolescence. I left home very early at 16. Um, I was then in my first kind of serious relationship that was kind of like a reaction from me. He was a little bit older, he had a car, like he'd lived out of area, you know. I thought this is kind of gonna be my saviour and start my new life away from a situation that I was quite unhappy with at the time. Yeah, um, but it turned out actually I was kind of jumping a little bit out of the frying band straight into the fire, you know, and that was um quite quickly became apparent. Although I think one of the now I look back as well, and again going back to the physical abuse, that didn't actually happen until we'd been together almost a year. Yeah, so it was the coercive control, there was infidelity, there was starting to diminish my um confidence and my self-worth. And then when I was kind of react back to that a little bit, that's when the physical abuse started. Um, and again, now I understand that that was complete power and control and how that impacted, and there was sexual abuse within that as well. And I didn't know really any better, but I remember thinking this isn't right, this is wrong, I don't want this life anymore. Yeah, um, but I felt very stuck and beholden to that situation. Um, this was then extended to his um family as well because I was living with them for a while. Um, his parents were lovely, but his siblings were just as abusive as he was, so he actually was my protective factor at times as well. So it was really like a good idea.

Hollie 17:53

And I think you do, you find I feel like um it's almost like the person as well that makes you feel so worthless and so shit about yourself, yeah, is the only person that you feel that can build you up and protect you, which is so crazy because I I know that that's how I felt. Like I felt like he was the only person that could ever make me feel better, but he was the only person that was really ever making me feel shit, but that he still, in a weird way, become your safe place.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah, and it's almost like you want to for for me, I was very independent, I was um, you know, quite mouthy at times. Like, you know, I didn't want to show people that I was scared. I didn't want to show the world that actually there was a problem here because I already felt like I was expected to fail. There was this almost expectance like, oh, you're just gonna be like a teenager statistic because you left home early, like you had a background where you know you come from South London and you moved around a lot as a kid. Like I just already felt that there was that judgment, then I didn't want to add that to society. Yeah, and then it came to a point where I kind of evolved, I made new connections, I worked, um, I got really good, sensible jobs. Um, like a lot of my friends were out partying and doing stuff, and I was like kind of head down. Um, I'd kind of done all that a bit younger than I should anyway. So I was like, well, I'm bored of that now. Let's let's move on from that. I never can't say. And I then I met um at the time who would be my husband from that situation. Yes, it was complex because, and even now, me saying it out loud is really weird because I can obviously talk about it. My friends and my friends who were present at the time and my family, you know, it became so normalized, but now, and it's difficult because obviously I have children who like my daughter, like that two amazing, amazing children, which again causes that conflict, isn't it? Because you know what you experience, and people say, Oh, if you could go back and change it, well, no, but then yeah, because without that experience, you wouldn't have your children. My wonderful children, I've made some wonderful connections and friends, you know, during the time. Yeah, and um, but we were together uh for about 19-20 years, we knew each other, so we met when I was 17, um, and he was actually 40. Wow, and he was my uh 39, 40, and he was my manager at the time. Um, we developed a a friendship, yeah. Um, and and I still to this day it's very hard because I still would believe that I'd call it a a genuine friendship, a genuine connection. Um, but now obviously I look back and I think, yeah, you were 17, and I look at my daughter now, you know, being 19, I think I know my response now would be, but yeah, but also her response would be really probably what you know I still think of, and that self-blame is still there, even though I'd say to someone else, don't talk about yourself like that. And I'm like, I know my response should have been different.

Hollie 21:05

But I think at that age, it's like even now, with even outside of abuse, you look at children, and at that age, like I look at my son who's just started secondary school, but when you're at that age, you don't feel like you're young, you feel like you probably felt at 17.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Like my go-to line was, and I was working in local government where all my best friends were middle-aged women, yeah, you know, and I've always found it really difficult to like even now I have a handful of friends who are kind of my age and my age, like and that's increased as I've got older, weirdly. Yeah, but when I was younger, going back to what we were saying about relatable experience, I couldn't relate. I couldn't relate to my peers because they were still living at home. Yeah, mum and dad and parents were paying for stuff still, like they were just going out and sneaking out to nightclubs, and I was like, Yeah, you know, I've I've You were beyond your years in terms of where you were stiff. I really felt like this was. Relatable experience for me where I suddenly felt a little bit more seen and appreciated from my experience. Um, and I think one of the go-to lines with my relationship with my ex-husband was if anyone did question the age gap, again, I was very much like, Well, you know, it's that extra pressure of like you have to make it work in society.

Hollie 22:19

Like, actually, I'm not gonna be and now I guess everyone's kind of made these comments that you're even it's like when someone says to you don't do something, you're like, I'm gonna prove you wrong and make it.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing any genuine feelings that were there at the time, like it wasn't like out of stubbornness and pride, but that does have an element to it. Now I can look back and reflect on that, but I remember like you always just say things, oh, but Dan's not a normal, whatever age, Dan's not a normal 19-year-old, Dan's not a normal 20-year-old, and so forth. And I used to relish in that, yeah. I used to think he was that grown up and material. Like, you know, and and we got officially together um when when I was 19, not too long after I'd already left. For the first time, I'd left that my first like uh abuse. Yeah, and I was still kind of reeling and getting on with life and that, still trying to play the professional role, still trying to adapt to what my life now looked like away from that abuse. Um, and then obviously, then I kind of went full in on this relationship and it it escalated very quickly. Within 18 months, I was pregnant. Um, again, this was something that we we kind of ended up with that trauma bond codependency in that it was us against the world. Yeah, you know, and because we worked together, it was us against everyone at all. It was like you can imagine, you know, 20 years ago, the hot gossip. Yeah, you know, I remember going into the toilets at one occasion, and people I'd worked with that I knew them, but they didn't really recognise me, and I'd walk in the toilets and they were all talking about me, and I'd be washing my hands like just and they were carrying on talking, they'd known it was me, you know. And I heard another lady going, she was like, Oh, if you ever need any help, and I was like, What's my name? And she was like, Sorry, and I was like, What's my actual name? We've worked together for like three years. What's my name? Yeah, she couldn't tell my name, I was just that girl, you know. So that quite quickly destroyed my confidence at work. Um, you know, I was the hot topic of conversation. I didn't really progress much in my career in local government after that. I, you know, I seeked ways to whereas he was.

Hollie 24:22

Did you think it almost and I feel like that's the problem, isn't it, with it, with what happens with men and women in all different areas. But do you think that kind of is what stopped you from progressing in your career in terms of you maybe felt a bit of sh like if you were embarrassed and you felt like everyone was talking?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

There was definitely an element of whilst I had to turn up every day and deal with it, I think the relief actually when I went off on maternity leave to get you out of that environment. I need to leave another career, I want to go. Yeah. Um, yeah, and then I I kind of changed roles and moved around um within local government for a while. Um, like I say, I did have some really good friends who I felt were like quite supportive, but then there was lots of people that obviously wasn't. But I think now I wish that someone had stepped in and instead of using it as gossip or judgment, yeah, someone actually did it from like a safeguarding, like protective factor. Like but I guess because I technically wasn't, you know, I was a young adult, but I wasn't a child, and they all knew me as this adult role since I was 17, so nobody really stepped in.

Hollie 25:24

I guess because you're over that age of I mean, legally, I don't know if there is it. There's not, is there?

SPEAKER_00 25:29

I think once and to be fair, even if someone had at that time you probably wouldn't have listened, yeah. Um and it was the same, like it was difficult with my family as well. I mean, my so my my mum had me at 17, like she was really young as well. Yeah, um, so my my parents are really, really young, and um then there was this always awkward moment where it's like, oh, so your partner's older than your dad, like, okay.

Hollie 25:54

Oh my god, was he?

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, so it's always gods I've always been quite a and how did your mum and dad react to not great, not great, but at the same time, because I'd had my own up and down relationship with them over the years, um, and I was living on my own from you know, as an adult from a young age, I kind of it wasn't under their roof. You you don't get to do the parent card now when I've been working through all this abuse and trauma pretty much by myself, you know. Yeah, I get it. So that was pretty much my stance on it. It was just like this is my life, and that's it. Um so yeah, it was it was it wasn't always sometimes it was quite humorous, other times it was just very awkward.

Hollie 26:38

Yeah, I can imagine, and obviously, apart from I guess the red flag as in the age gap from what a lot of people would probably now be like, oh my god, that's a huge age gap. At what point in your like relationship would you say? Because I guess at the beginning it was you two against the world, it's you know, it's exciting, he's older, is you know there were still plenty of red flags.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Was there, yeah, yeah, and even now I kick myself, even now I kick myself.

Hollie 27:10

But hindsight's a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

We look back and we're like, oh my god, you know, I wish we'd seen this, but yeah, and and I think this is the problem, is we we've got into such a kind of routine of the the hindsight stuff, but actually, we I think we need to go back, especially with young people as well, and and teenagers, like it's about giving ourselves the confidence to trust and listen to ourselves more, yeah, and and somewhere down the line we've got so swept up, whether it's social media or other people's opinions, we forget to listen to our gut instinct, to our own intuition, it's there for a reason.

Hollie 27:47

But I think I don't know if you feel the same, but maybe where you'd had the abuse previously. I feel like, and I know from my experience, I don't know whether it's my gut or past trauma, or and I feel like that sometimes maybe in your position was sometimes I feel like that can be quite hard to like I find that a big struggle.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

I don't know about you, with like trusting your gut on knowing whether it's just I don't think they should, I don't think we should have to separate them though, because trusting our gut, you know, our tacit knowledge as such is is all about our lived experience combined with that intuition. So that's what it's there for, is you know, we are evolved. So really you should still listen to it. Absolutely, yeah. That's good to know. It's it's absolutely there for a reason as a protective factor for us. Um, and I think it's really important that we have more conversations about that and with young people to guide them and be like, focus on you first, then you can start focusing on your relationships with other people. Because if you don't understand that relationship with yourself, yeah, abusers are going to use them tactics to have that power control manipulate you.

Hollie 28:49

And also it's listening to like what you said, your body, and knowing because even if in our minds we want to ignore it, you do get that feeling, even from a young age, that this doesn't feel right. And you can't always label it, you don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

You don't know. Um, it's like when we say to people, you know, what what are you how do you experience fear or what are you scared of? Actually, the reason things get missed is because sometimes they don't know what they're scared of. And if somebody's abuser is the person that you're meant to feel safe with, or you do feel safe with and you're conflicted, or it's your parent, or you know, in it, or it's your partner, or your sibling, how are they going to express, you know, what that fear is? But sometimes when you have them conversations, okay, okay, how does that feel in your body? You know, what what happens? Yeah, you know, talk about what happens to make you have that feeling. Yeah, and then it's about recognizing that and building up on that picture rather than just expecting people to say, Oh, well, this was happening, I knew it was wrong, so therefore I left, or therefore I didn't do this or I didn't do that.

Hollie 29:50

Yeah, it's so important.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Um, and again, this is what feeds into that self-blame and and victim-blaming narrative all the time, and why people think it's just easy to get up and leave. If so you knew it was wrong, you saw a red flag and you did nothing about it. Yeah, you know, that's the narrative we have to change.

Hollie 30:04

Absolutely, and I think this obviously is talking a lot about coercive control, and I think it's something that is I had no idea what it was, to be quite honest. I think it's quite a new charge in the UK as well, isn't it? It's not something that I feel like, like you said, it's just domestic violence.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, so 2015, so not as it feels new to me still. I mean, compared to that age where 10 years only seems like yesterday, but yeah, yeah. So it's just over you know, 16 years now. Oh my god, yeah.

Hollie 30:35

Oh my god, you're in 2026. That is quite a while. But I think in terms of like abuse that you see, because I think something that is so important and uh the awareness that I guess you guys uh with a charity and and me and what I want to do is it's not just abuse isn't just physical.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

No.

Hollie 30:56

In the work you do, what is like the most form of abuse that you see? Is it coercive control?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Emotional and psychological abuse, um, probably seven over 75% of the people.

Hollie 31:07

Because it does cover quite a lot, doesn't it? Coercive control. It's all it's like I know when they was doing the charges, it can cover such a huge amount of yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

I mean, it it literally it's it ripples into every tactic, every um response, you know, and and every area of your life as well. Yeah, and I think people and professionals, when they're supporting people, there's almost this expectation like it has to fit in a nice segment or a nice tick box of an area of something where you can say, Oh, well, this was an offence, yeah, go down the list, okay, yeah, it was that. Yeah, they don't understand that actually that coercive control is you know, you get to understand that there's consequences to your actions and their actions, and it's like someone's playing a game all the time, but they get to change the rules, but they never tell you when the rules change. So you just have to adapt very quickly to protect yourself and maybe protect your children, yeah. And then you're constantly trying to play that role, especially as a parent as well, is like actually you know what what are they seeing through their eyes, and how do they then respond to people around them, like and to their peers? Do they think this is normal behaviour? Things become normalized very, very quickly. Yeah, um, so it you know, how do you explain to people, well, what were you scared of? Why were you afraid that day? You know, why were you feeling so sick or anxious that day when you turned up to work or you turned up to school? Well, actually, because when I left, they gave me that look. Yeah, they sighed at me because I put my keys in the wrong place. Yeah. Because they made me feel really bad about myself. Because as I was going out the door, they told me that I looked fat and stupid in that outfit, even though other people have complimented me in it. Then they got jealous because other people compliment me in it, and now I feel guilty for wearing this outfit even though I wore it to try and feel good. It's such a vicious and it is that vicious cycle. But how do you explain that when you call the police and they say, Well, what's the problem? Oh, he called me, yeah, he called me a name. He called me fat and then he looked at me funny. Yeah. You know, so it's really hard to explain. But that constant, you're you're like a boiling kettle all the time walking on eggshells. Yeah. That constant feeling of I'm not good enough, and I don't know. So walking on eggshells, and your nervous system is literally like And then when they do give you support and love, and then something happens in your day, and actually they're the first person that you want to talk and tell about it.

Hollie 33:16

Yeah, because they're the ones you want to impress the most.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

And that is it. You're always trying to hold that accountability for yourself, like I have to impress them, I have to do better. Yeah, I'm obviously not doing something right all the time because they wouldn't be treating me this way if they genuinely loved me or liked me for who I am. And then you overcompensate, yeah, yeah, and then you start assuming that actually, well, if this is the person that loves me the most and they see me this way, what on earth does everybody else see me like? Yeah, you know, my god, everyone must hate me.

Hollie 33:42

And everyone must say them things behind my back. Yeah, yeah, no, that's um it's so true.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

And when you're actually saying it like that, like with it in terms of going to beast, it's probably why a lot of people don't, because they feel stupid and they feel ashamed and they're like, Well, what shame and they get like I say, even now, even with the experience I have, the lived experience, the professional experience, even now as I'm saying things out loud, it's like like a million memories are coming back, and I can feel the flutters in my stomach, not just because it's my first podcast, not just the nerves, I'm sure that's part of it. But it's that like your your body remembers, you know, even when you're thinking that you've healed, like it never quite leaves you, yeah. Um, but again, it's it's learning to kind of twist that and thinking, okay, so how how do I learn from that? How do I stay alert for myself and protect myself for that in the future? Um, which that's a whole other podcast, in terms I reckon we could be motivated when you've separated out of all of this as well. That's a whole other thing.

Hollie 34:45

Oh my god, don't I actually have only just started talking a little bit about that, and I feel like that is absolutely an episode needs to happen because I'm kind of going through the emotion and it's all wild, but anyway, okay. Oh my god, we'd be in years doing that one in terms of um what in terms of so red flags. I mean, this this is a difficult one, isn't it? Because it's like so varied, but I guess in terms of getting the awareness out there that you know it's not just violence, there is so many things.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

So, you know, from a young person, if someone telling you what to wear, not like and you're talking to your friends, all of those you will see that isolation creeping quite quickly, but it'll be in really underhanded ways. So it will be um things like, Well, your friend that you know you always go out with, yeah, yeah, my best friend, they try to heal me. I don't like them, I don't think they like me. Yeah, and you'll see very quickly that there's that victimization, yeah. And it will be like, Well, they they don't like me, I just don't feel comfortable. So then your attention turns on them all the time. Yeah, another massive red flag that I looking back and after speaking with people I know just wasn't unique to my situation, um, is when there is something that you have achieved, or places that you are taking to introduce to people. And obviously, we all kind of have this social etiquette, don't we? Like if you're meeting your friends, your partner's friends or family for the first time, or there's that some kind of event, most people want to show that you're a united front, that you're like loved up, or that you want to be connected. The moment they start trying to humiliate you or embarrass you or undermine you or laugh at you, create a scene that differs from something you've done, or it could be I had a situation where I had a friend, a really good friend that I'd known for a couple of years. Um, and I took my ex-husband to a birthday party. She had some um personal situations going on, and of course, you talk to the person, don't you? You what you tell them things. So it was like, well, you know, just remember like please don't mention anything like this, you know. It's something that I told you in confidence. Yeah. Straight away it was used as a manipulation as a black male. You know, I don't want you up dancing, you're getting too much attention. Started sulking, and then your attention defers back to them. Why are you sulking? Let me get you another drink. Are you okay? You start appeasing them, you start trying to calm them down, you start trying to show them more attention, you shrink yourself.

Hollie 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

The moment you start feeling like you need to shrink yourself, you don't want to get up and dance anymore because you know it's gonna set them on a sulk. If they set up on a sulk and then you don't go and attend to their needs quick enough, then they start escalating. Yeah, they'll start causing a scene, they'll start making you feel like, oh no, I shouldn't have told them, because then they try and hurt the other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or well, I'm gonna say this or I'm gonna say that. Because then you're protecting someone else, so they know then that you're gonna do what they say because there's that bargaining, that leverage. Oh my god, that's so good. Things like that when there's jealousy around your accomplishments. So, you know, if you've done and it'll be on the surface level, people think, oh, they're supporting them. Well done. I'm so proud of my wife, I'm so proud of this, but now they've got something better than I've got. Yeah. Now they've done something more than me, and I just have to stick it. That they're you're gonna and then they'll laugh. Yeah, like it's a joke. And when you don't laugh, they're like, Why are you so moody? God, you used to have a sense of humour. Oh, can I say anything?

Hollie 38:18

I had the oh, you're like a zombie, you're like, and then I you oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

It is literally, this is what I'm saying about like they sing from the same hymns because it's literally all of these things that you're sitting there saying, and it's like tick, tick, like you literally people think you know, often I remember um because when I was younger, I didn't drive, so my my first partner, he like had a car and it was lovely because it was just like, Oh, look at me, like he's gonna drop me and my friends off, like we can have the time, then he's gonna pick us up. Like, how lovely it's so nice to feel like you want to be looked after, yeah. And I think that's that's where they get you. I think, especially if you have gone, you know, and you you kind of have your own issues of feeling neglected, maybe, and and you want that connection with somebody, yeah. Uh, you know, they they can hone in on that very, very quickly from their own tactical experience. Yeah, um, and again, this is why that self-blame we have to change because it it's not about what we do, it's about what they recognize, what they're looking for, they're looking for weaknesses, they're going into relationships and connections, looking for weaknesses for people and I feel like how to exploit them.

Hollie 39:21

Yeah, and you go in, and I think another big thing, and one thing that I found was I mean, we had a friendship, so he did know, but you go into a relationship and you almost open up the mate, you feel like you can trust them and you can talk to them, so you tell them things from previous relationships. So, for like for me, I had two children by two different dads, and for a lot of the time, we had this thing where I he knew issues in my past relationship and he would use it against me. Yes, and it would be this is why they're not with you, this is why you're a single mum, this is why you've got two children by two dads, and it makes you feel like you, oh my god, maybe it is me, maybe I and and everything that I ever told him in confidence about my life, about even if I had an argument with my sister or something like that, you know, every single thing would then be used against you. Yeah, and it makes you feel like, oh my god, you know what, maybe they're right.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

And it's and the thing with that is then what we do is we start comparing. Yeah, we start comparing what our previous relationships were. So I had with my ex-husband, for example, in the same vein, he knew all that stuff about what I'd been through with my ex because he'd kind of witnessed it from from afar as my friend, as my colleague. Um, so he was like, Oh, I would never treat you like that way, even though there were lots of overlapping things. But in my head at the time, I was like, Well, he's not hitting me, yeah, it's not as bad as what I went through. Yeah, so this is different, this is just personality clashes, this is just stress, yeah, this is just us trying to find, you know, and now I think, well, no, it's just it was different, different, and I think I normalised it, I minimised it.

Hollie 40:57

That's almost a little bit. I I don't I hate saying I feel like it's worse because I feel like in any type of abuse there is no worse, better, but I feel like the lasting impact that mental abuse, emotional, all of that, I feel like the bruises fade a lot quicker than the mental side of like I feel like for me, and I feel like a lot of women that I speak to, that's the bit that stays with you and lingers for ever, forever.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah, not years. I feel like it does change you. And you you don't even realize it's happened until it's only when you are in a safer place with that support, and and I think that is the massive, massive difference is really dependent on the support that is available to you and and and how safely you can access that. Yeah, and it's only with that support that you can get to a place where you reflect back and you can have these conversations, and yes, they're still impactful, they they can still be triggering, but you know that you are in that safe place. And it's okay to be upset by it still. Yeah, and I think people have this idea, ideology of what a healed person looks like, um, or how they should talk about things or react to things, not realizing that actually you can be grieving and still be healing, be healing at the same time. You can have still have feelings of pure, genuine love for that person and friendship, yeah, but still hate what they've put you through and understand that actually that was abuse. Um, and we don't have to, the same as what I was saying about you know, you can still be a victim or a survivor of domestic abuse and still be a kick-ass professional, yeah, you know, who's taking on that capacity. We don't have to section off all these roles and feelings and separate all the time. The more we kind of have that holistic approach to things, I think the better that our communities will have a better understanding. I think the support will be more readily available, people will be more open to talk about things instead of this kind of old-fashioned view of what goes on behind closed doors stays.

Hollie 42:56

But I think no, absolutely not. That's what needs to be changed because I feel like that's you do you do just yeah hear that all the time, don't you? And I feel like I actually said I feel like all these old school sayings, and I actually spoke about it previously on a pod um podcast episode that we done, and it was like if a boy is mean to you, he likes you. And I'm like, I remember hearing that growing up. I think my mum and dad probably even said it to me. I feel like ping your ass straight. Oh, that means they fancy you if they're talking to you, and it's like this is where these things subconsciously, yeah, and it's like, can we stop now?

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Because it's not true, so damaging, and not just damaging to for for for us as women and girls, but like for the kind of patriarchal expectation on young boys as well, yeah. And this is why there's that barrier for them to get support as victims of DA just as much, yeah. Um, because their expectation is that oh well, I'm I was taught that I was meant to be mean to the girl, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then they'll that damage it. Why am I in the wrong? Yeah, and this is when that kind of uh mental play of of oh now. I'm the victim, yeah, and they don't realise that actually it's like no, you're not the you are the victim of of that expectation societally, but you have to take that responsibility and accountability to help change that now, yeah.

Hollie 44:09

I think on what I've seen in the news and stuff recently is there's a lot more now, and I feel like they are actually going into schools now. I've seen to start doing lessons with boys, on you know, and I think we are at a place, I hope, where there is that little bit more awareness around it because we never had any of that in school, like not at all. It was literally the complete opposite. But I think now, hopefully, there's a long way to go.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Oh, um, but there's definitely positive changes. Improvements and improvements. I mean, even with us at Oasis, like we, you know, really pride ourselves on working lots with young people in the community, and we have lots of services, and we are just actually um embarking on going into doing um educational workshops about healthy relationships and and not just for the young people as well across the different key stages, but also again for the staff, because there's no point in then us saying to the children and young people, oh well, this is how you're meant to act, and then the staff who are supporting them daily, yeah, actually like, well, I don't know how to get out of it. So now am I meant to support them?

Hollie 45:14

So absolutely, you know, again, it's it's coming from that whole you've got to work from like the the top ground, yeah, whatever it is. But yeah, I know what you're saying because a lot, I think a lot of adults, I mean, even my mum and dad through this, you know, we haven't experienced this before, so we was all pretty clueless, like I always say, you know, my version of domestic abuse was the typical stereotypical man who's maybe a drinker in the pub all the time and big, and it's not like that. So I feel like adults are and my mum and dad were just so had no idea about so much, you know. The first thing that everyone said to me, my mum, my sister, everybody was, why the fuck did you keep going back? You know, and it's no one is educated on trauma bonding and all of these different things that come with, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah, they don't realise that actually, though, you know, we know on average it takes safely around seven. Seven times, yeah, that's what the police talk. But we also that's how many times subjectively, how many times does that include someone imagining to leave and planning out in their head every single day, you know, what would this look like for me? Can I afford to uh be a parent on my own and support my children? Can I run my household? Can I keep my job? If you've got other care and responsibilities for like elderly relatives, you know, actually what am I going to do without that person? Because you are still a family unit. Yes, there's that abuse and there's that um you know emotional complexity around it, but some of the practical things, you know, it might come at a consequence, or it's almost a bit like quid pro crow, isn't it? Like, well, actually, I know if I do this, and you end up playing the game. But actually, still, if especially if it is um, you know, like a like a marriage and that that dependency, you still have your routines where you do share the school runs, maybe sometimes, or if there is an elderly relative that needs help or support, that actually they might be able to pop round when you haven't got time to, or they can help with the shopping, they still do things, they're still there's still a person that does stuff.

Hollie 47:12

And actually, this is really important because this is the bit that I want to. So, my situation, and obviously, a lot of the listeners and the people that follow and listen into this, you know, I've spoken to quite a lot of women, and my experience wasn't that I was married to him, I didn't have children with him, and I didn't share a home with him, although he stayed at mine a lot. So I don't have advice and guidance in terms of when people message me and they are stuck in that financial you know, dependency or you know, living with someone or having children, and I can't imagine how difficult that is because number one, like you said, you share a lot of responsibilities if they're you know they are doing that, some don't, but also I guess walking away with children and knowing that even if you walk away from the relationship, you've got to co-parent with them. The wick if if someone was listening now and that and they're you know are in that relationship and they are living in a house where maybe the bills are paid by their abuser and things, what are the next steps for them? Like what could they do? Yeah, because it's such a scary and I feel like it that so many people, it's probably one of the biggest, maybe not the biggest, but a huge reason why a lot of women feel stuck.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah, I mean that there's multiple reasons and barriers why people will stay in that connection, um, especially when we're looking at kind of an intimate um partner relationship or or marriage. One is safety in terms of if you've got someone who is coercively controlling you and knows all your routines, knows how you act, you know, having that explicit time and space to be able to reach out and get support, even if you do know it's available. Like, how do you do that if you've got someone monitoring you all the time? Um, so there's that element of it. There is the isolation away from people who can support you, so your friends and family, um, completely, you know, having to mask all the time that everything's fine. How are you? Yeah, it's fine, everything's great. Because people want to see, you know, they want to see that everything is okay, so they will believe what you tell them.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Um, and it's also like a self-protection and and for your family as well. So there's that barrier because then there's the but I've been telling them everything's fine for years and now they're not going to believe me.

Hollie 49:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

You know, I can barely believe myself. So, how is everybody else gonna believe me? How do I justify this?

Hollie 49:40

And also a lot of the time they look like the nicest guy in the world, they're the loudest in the room, the funny one, the charmer, the oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was told quite a lot of times when um, you know, there'd be situations and I was a lot more vocal, you know, we'd be out with friends and they'd be like, Oh, you know, like it would be Dan or Danielle's gonna say something there, and he would sit back and be like the calm, laid back one, you know, and it'd be like oh yeah, she's the one causing the problem, yeah. He the the antagonise from the surface, so then people see you react or get upset, yeah, and then it's like well, yeah, actually so such a huge deal. But other barriers, definitely financial. If people are in a safe place to get that support, so for example, if somebody was able to contact a racist, they could do that by phone, they could do that by our helpline. We have one-stop shops that you could access with friends, you don't need an appointment, and there are multiple professionals there as well. Okay. Um, so then you could talk to one of our um amazing like domestic abuse support workers and frontline workers or IDVAs that are there.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Um, we also have a like a chat service where and you can quickly click out of the website so if somebody's coming on, you can quickly close it off. Um if once you're in contact with one of our frontline services, we would then do what we call like a dash risk assessment. Um, and what we are assessing for is to see your level of risk and harm to serious harm and actually to your life.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Um, and then from there we would make a safety plan, and that would incorporate conversations around you know what your daily routines in your life are like, what your living accommodation is like, who else is involved with that, have you got children? Um, and then from there we would develop with you. Um obviously, we have kind of like generic guides around that and expectations, but it would be tailored to your individual circumstances. Um, and and then you've got that support and you've got that empathy as well, and specialist working to help you keep you safe as best we can in that moment and minimize that harm. Um these things aren't quick, obviously. They they don't we would always say if it's immediate danger, you know, call 999.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Um, but we would then carry on supporting that person and their family, and it that could look like um people coming into one of our safer accommodation or refuge for that opportunity, um, or it could be actually that they're staying in that property and we can help them create that property to be more safer if the abuser has has left, or yeah, because if there is that period of separation or planned separation, that risk increases so much.

Hollie 52:07

So I had this um and I've got to say the charities, I wasn't with Oasis, I was with another charity called Changing Pathways. Um, and you know, to anyone the the eight the agencies, the charities are fantastic, and that's what they done with me because my children didn't know about the abuse. I didn't want to I believe them. I was put as high risk, um, but they sent me ring cameras, they sent me cameras for my front and my back of my house, they done so many, told me, you know, I think there's an app called the Holly, Holly, yeah, um, and there were so many amazing ways they supported me. So, I mean, the work you guys do as charities is is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Um, it could be that somebody needs like a burner phone because you know, if their phone's being tracked, and I can't think so if it's accessible to do that, or we could assist um, because often for like medical appointments, for example, if the children are at school, it could be that you um talk to the school and help support them that way, so that's a way to safely see them and support and carry on making them plans without the abuser being present all the time. Um, so it's yeah, it's thinking kind of always outside the box, but what fits in with their general light of the system, yeah.

Hollie 53:19

So it's all accommodated to each person and each situation. And if someone um the abuse reached a point where they decide to leave and they want to get out, what's those steps there? So if someone is watching and they are ready to, you know, they need to get out of their situation, they've got children. Do they come directly to does that go for a charity where you would take them into your refuge?

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Not necessarily so refuge and safe accommodation spaces are very limited. Yeah, there's no getting around that, you know. Um, but again, we would look at that as part of that safety plan. We would be looking at what the best options for them are, what's and also a lot of victims a lot of the time don't want to. It used to be very much dependent on the risks that actually the victims have to uproot their whole lives, they have to leave everything behind often quite suddenly, yeah. Um, because of that that urgent need, sometimes if there is risk to life, yeah, you know, and all the onus and responsibility actually is is leaving their support network, taking the children out of school, leaving their jobs. And whilst sometimes that is very, very necessary, but also um, you know, we have safe accommodations where people would be still in their kind of local area quite near because they do have support networks available. So why should they be stripped away from actually what is a protective area? So they can do so there is places in local areas where they can. Or we would be working very closely with um like housing associations to try and uh you know see what support is available within local areas and the local authorities within Kent as well. Okay. Um, and also other um charities, like if we're not the commission service for a specific area, we would work alongside the other DA charities in Kent as well to make sure that we use that wraparound support. Yeah, um, but it all really does come down to that safety planning element and just keep minimising the risk. There could be other referrals, but we would have them conversations and say this is why we're making a referral, it's not because you know we're trying to complicate things, it's because we want to refer to something called a like a Mirac.

Hollie 55:15

Yes, I had that with my children at school. They went in and had meetings with the school and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Yeah, and this is um for people who aren't aware that it's something where professionals come together, so it's multi-agencies discussing what the risk is for that person and their families. Um, and any professional that is involved basically, so it could be police, it could be probation, it could be teachers from school, social workers. Yeah, um, you know, it's about actually collectively making that safe trying to minimize the risk for that person. Um, and that kind of ongoing minimization means that they can then start taking the next steps. We could be looking as well into that community support to groups so you get that empowerment and kind of camaraderie from shared experiences and other people. We have psychosocial models of um kind of therapy sessions and programs that last to really help build up people's self-esteem and understanding and processing what they've been through as well. Um, so there's there's lots of steps in terms of that support for where they are living and financial support. That's something obviously that the frontline staff as well. So it could be looking into um, you know, do they need to seek uh like benefit help? Yeah, how is this going to impact? Do we need to have a help you support with your employer? Has your employer got a DA policy? Let's see if we can support with that as well.

Hollie 56:31

Um, and so you're you can help guide. So if someone is sitting there, you could if they came to your charity or a charity, they would get all the help and support in terms of what they need to look at and give them that guidance because I think it can be so overwhelming, can't it? And that's the thing is do you have to to come? I know this might sound a bit like a stupid question, to come to a charity. Do you have to have a police report?

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Absolutely not. No, no, I wasn't sure, you know, because I'm you can also self-refer as well. You can be referred to so if you were working with different professionals, so say you're working with social workers, for example, or a housing officer, they could um have that conversation with you and make a referral like into a races, yeah, but you can absolutely make self-referrals as well. Oh, amazing. Okay, yes. I wasn't sure whether so and this is a good thing about having like the one-stop shops and our helpline, for example, is you can have them conversations. Um, you don't have to give all your details straight away, you can try and see what if that is suitable for you, um, and then give them all personal details. The thing that I'll say is when you are working um with a charity and we are supporting you, it's it's really difficult. And the reason that it takes um, and I will big up the the staff that we have Oasis because you do have to be that compassionate, really honourable person to have that role. Yeah, because we are talking about asking and talking to people some of the most intimate details of what they've been through. And obviously, if you've got a professional just sitting there who suddenly starts asking you, you know, or all wanting to know all the details about things that you might have never vocalized before out loud, you know, saying something out loud and knowing what's happened in your head and holding that information and then verbalising it is in itself such a massive thing.

Hollie 58:18

Well, I think it becomes real, doesn't it? I think for so long you get used to masking and not saying it that I feel like when you actually say it out loud for the first time or start talking to people, it's a lot, it's a lot, yeah, because I feel like you just it day-to-day life and and that becomes your normal.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

It does.

Hollie 58:38

And so when you start verbalising it and seeing people's reactions and and actually taking it out.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

And this goes back to kind of having that professional relatability. Um, you need someone who's going to be empathetic and compassionate, but you also need someone who's finding that balance because we are there to support you in that moment. Yeah, we don't want you to worry about our feelings. Feelings, yeah, yeah.

Hollie 58:57

We don't want you to think because it's a lot to hear as well on the other end, isn't it? As well, like emotionally, you know, it is frontline work.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

So I get to say, that is why it's specialist work because there will be people who, with all the best intention in the world, they are just trying to show that empathy, but they will be taken back because, like I say, people generically in society, we don't actually want to hear the bad stuff. Yeah, we want to kind of bury our heads in the sand a little bit collectively and be like, oh, that's really bad. I don't know how to and people don't know how to respond.

Hollie 59:27

Respond, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

But again, the more we talk about it, the more there's platforms like this, the more we share experiences. Yes, people can have the option to switch off and and pretend that it's not really happening, but yeah, there's no escaping it really. It impacts everybody, all levels, whether you're a direct victim or survivor, whether you're connected or know someone, if you're a UK taxpayer, you know, we're looking at billions, yeah, billions of billions of billions, you know, that that impact our services because of domestic abuse. So it really does impact everybody in in the UK and and worldwide, you know.

Hollie 1:00:02

Worldwide. And I think actually, you know, coming to a charity in terms of people leaving, because they do say leaving the relationship is the most dangerous time a lot of the time. I think I know we said we weren't gonna do stats, but I'm sure it was like something around 70%. It's like 76% of that risk increases. Increases, yes, that's what I saw. So actually, if you are gonna leave, doing it alongside a charity is so important to have those extra support, that's extra support and that safety plan in place so that you have got your cameras, you find all of these things that and people and it's not about scaremongering or um you know not encouraging people to want to leave, it is just about being realistic that actually for us to be able to minimise that harm and risk for you, yeah, this is what needs to take place and have that extra support. And they are out there, they can have them safety plans, and I think that's good because I think a lot of people don't. I mean, I would never have gone to a charity, probably had I have just left it, I left the relationship, and it was only because I went to the police that they automatically they done their assessment and put it as high risk, so I got transferred over. But had I have just walked away and not gone through a police report, and I think this is why this is so informative for people, that actually going and whether it's a self-referral or you're getting referred through someone else is so important because that safety plan could save your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

It could save your life, but also just on that, going back to your question about with the police involvement, I mean that's another added barrier that often people don't con uh connect to authorities or charities because they worry that there's gonna be that police involvement. Whereas actually we we're never gonna make you every professional has certain safeguarding responsibilities, of course, and and there will be referrals if there is you know ongoing illegal activity or something we do need to report. Yeah. But in terms of confidentiality and that support, we're never gonna say to you, you have to go to policing and report this. You know, you have to leave that situation. If that person is not ready to leave or not ready to report, we are never gonna make somebody or make them feel like they have to do that.

Hollie 1:02:08

So that you can have the safeguarding element without having to feel the pressure of going to the police.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Make them aware of their options, yeah. Um, and then if they change their mind and say, Well, actually, six months down the line, I'm I feel ready now to come back to this and to officially report it, then we'll support them through that. Yeah. Um, but we're never going to make someone who contacts us go to the police straight away and have that decision.

Hollie 1:02:28

Yeah. And in terms of obviously, I know you do a lot of work with like children. Is there so there is obviously the element that you do, so it's not just you know, women or men coming to you, they will have the full support with their children. You have therapy or you know, how therapies for children because if children's lots of one-to-war, like uh one-to-war, sorry, one-to-one mentor. So I've been talking a while now, our brains are going.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

We have uh like uh mentors, we have volunteers who help as well. We have our amazing young persons, um, services and teams, uh, young people's teams who they support the children that are in our safe accommodation and refuge, they'll take them out, things like fishing and into the woods for like to give them like safe spaces, yeah. So it's not all like heavy processing, this is what you've been through. It's actually letting children be children.

Hollie 1:03:19

And also, I think sometimes a lot of the time, my daughter's got a lot of like anxieties and stuff. And I was saying that actually, if I I think if I put her in front of a therapist, she just wouldn't talk. So actually, those ways of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

And I think again, coming from that holistic approach, even with the adults that we work with who stay with us in our accommodations, you know, there will be um yoga sessions, there'll be craft sessions, things that they wasn't able maybe to have that freedom to do that actually, this is how you start to find yourself, this is how you get your power, yeah, and start thinking, oh, this is something I like or this is something I don't like, um, you know, group talks, book reviews, book clubs, you know, these things that people take for granted and might just be dismissed as something, you know, well, that's not serious enough. How can that be part of the therapeutic process? Yeah, but it's absolutely vital for people to have that connection to something. Absolutely. And and that, you know, the things that we would the privileged things that are seen as normal, you know, they are often things that them young people and children and people don't get to have, don't get to experience. So we try our best to make sure that we, you know, weave that in wherever we can as well. Um, that that's what's really, really important for us. And yeah, it's lovely seeing how happy. You know, that and Christmas, we're always doing fundraising at Christmas, and and we have some amazing um community support where you know they donate gifts and go around at Christmas and make sure that they've got presents. Right, it's such amazing work, honestly.

Hollie 1:04:40

It really is. It's just so I think it's you're making such a huge difference, and it's it's so important. It's ongoing, but um yeah, and I think we are in a in a generation, thankfully, where like you said, we're a long way off, but it is being spoken about more. There are things that are coming in, and you know, hopefully we can all make a huge change in the in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

No, I do. I mean, I look back at you know when I was a teenager and I wish I wish I knew of the services that were available. I didn't and and I worked with you know, I was going for different job interviews, I was working for like agencies where I was doing apprenticeships and um like MVQs at the time and things like that. But they were aware of the situation, they they saw the bruises, they saw the tears, they saw the fear, but it was it was pure judgment, you know, nobody made referrals for me. Nobody said, well, this person is actually, you know, this girl is homeless, she's had trauma, like she's reliant on um, you know, this person who is definitely harming her. Um and nobody did anything.

Hollie 1:05:45

Nobody did anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

Yeah, it was just brushed under the carpet. And it was kind of like, well, yeah. Oh nice.

Hollie 1:05:51

So I think that is, you know, from so many years, so many people will be able to relate to that because I think it was just it was always brushed under the carpet.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Now people knowing that these services are available there, you know, we can help. And even if you're not, you know, in the area, say, for example, that um Oasis is commissioned for for the frontline um services that we provide, but we'd still help and support give us a lot of people.

Hollie 1:06:15

Yeah, so if someone came to you, you know, someone's watching and they're not from Kent, for example, would you be able to put them in touch with the relevant charity?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Absolutely, try and help with that. We would give them generic guidance still. Um, like I said, there's loads of information on generically on our website anyway.

Hollie 1:06:30

And I will in the show notes for anyone listening and watching, there will be all the links to our the races website and you know the relevant so that you can find it easier. Yeah. But it's been um it's been lovely talking to you. It's been lovely. I really think it's gonna help because I think there's so many questions that we've answered, and I think the charity side of it and what that can do for people is so unspoken about. I was clueless to it, and I'm sure so many others, it's just you almost only get normally given that when you go to the police. So I think for anyone listening, knowing that there is that guidance, that help, that support, without feeling like I'm gonna have to go through court, is gonna be life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

We are here, and you know, we our whole ethos is about trying to help families stay safe and not live in fear, you know, love shouldn't hurt. Yeah, and this is what the message that we want to get to people, to young people, to adults, you know, when you are ready to and it is safe for you to do so, we are here for you. Yeah, um, we acknowledge what you've been through, and we just want to support you through that and minimise that um any harm to you that we can. But I'm gonna be awake for like the next month thinking, and I should have said this.

Hollie 1:07:43

Oh, I know, it's always the way no, it was amazing, you was absolutely amazing, and honestly, thank you so much for coming on because I do genuinely think this could make such a huge difference to someone, and um, yeah, it's been lovely having you. Thank you. Thank you, Marie.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:59

It's been great. Thank you.

Hollie 1:08:02

So, thank you so much for being here today and listening or watching the episode. If you are affected by anything that we have spoken about, or you know someone who is, like I said, we will have links to the relevant available help and support within the show notes. And we also have the previous episodes, and we just want you to know you are not alone. There is help and support out there for you. Please make sure to share any of the videos and podcast episodes with anyone that you feel like could help. And please make sure you like, follow, subscribe, leave us a review, and we'll see you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

Thank you.