Through A Mother’s Eyes: Surviving Abuse, Pregnancy & First-Time Motherhood

In this powerful and deeply emotional episode of House of H.E.R., Hollie is joined by Annie, who shares her story publicly for the first time.

Released on International Women’s Day, this episode shines a light on a side of domestic abuse that is not spoken about enough  what it looks like to experience abuse while pregnant, becoming a first-time mum, navigating birth trauma, and then trying to survive early motherhood while living in fear.

Annie opens up about the early red flags, love bombing, violence, coercive control, the confusion that keeps so many women trapped, and the moment she knew she had to leave for good. Together, Hollie and Annie talk about how abuse can look “normal” from the outside, how difficult it can be to make sense of what is happening when you are in it, and why motherhood can both complicate and strengthen the decision to leave.

This is a raw, honest and incredibly important conversation that will resonate with so many women, especially those trying to navigate abuse while raising a child.

in this episode, we cover:

 ✨ the early warning signs and intense love bombing
 ✨ why red flags can be so easy to excuse at the beginning
 ✨ moving quickly in relationships and how abusers create fast emotional dependence
 ✨ the first violent incident and how the cycle began
 ✨ how apologies, charm and “good periods” keep women stuck
 ✨ Annie’s experience of doing Clare’s Law and what it revealed
✨ becoming pregnant and why abuse does not always escalate straight away
✨ how things changed after the baby was born
✨ birth trauma, neonatal care and navigating those early days alone
✨ the emotional abuse, criticism and cruelty Annie faced as a new mum
✨ how drink, drugs, disappearing and gaslighting became part of the pattern
✨ the reality of trying to survive abuse while caring for a newborn
✨ the moment Annie finally left
✨ what happened when co-parenting began
✨ the assault that led to police involvement
✨ social services, police response and how overwhelming that process can feel
✨ getting a non-molestation order for protection
 

important links mentioned in this episode

claire’s law / domestic violence disclosure scheme
Find out more about Clare’s Law on GOV.UK
 

non-molestation order form (FL401)
Apply for a non-molestation or occupation order: Form FL401

If this episode brings anything up for you, please know you are not alone.

If you are experiencing domestic abuse or are worried about someone you know, support is available. You do not have to wait until things get “worse” to ask for help.

House of H.E.R. is a space for women who have lived through abuse, trauma, and relationships that broke them. This podcast exists to tell the truth, raise awareness around domestic abuse, and remind you that you are not alone in what you’re healing from.

Follow @houseofher__ and my personal account @holliedowdingx on Instagram and please share this episode with a woman who might need it 🥀

Transcript

Hollie 0:34

Hello, and welcome back to the House of Hair podcast, your podcast all about healing, empowerment, and richness. And this is episode seven. Happy International Women's Day before we get into it. And as it is International Women's Day, there is no better way of celebrating women's empowerment than to hear an empowering story from another domestic abuse survivor. So I have got Annie in the studio with me today on the podcast, who is going to be sharing her story about surviving domestic abuse but doing it while navigating pregnancy and also becoming a first-time mum, which is something that I think needs to be spoken about. I've wanted to speak about because it's part of domestic abuse that I haven't had to deal with, I've not had to co-parent. So I think it's really important to hear different stories from different women because there will be someone watching who will be able to relate to this, and hopefully we can help. So thank you so much, Annie, for coming in. Thank you for having me. So before we get started, let me just do the trigger warning. So in this episode, we speak about themes of trauma, mental health, and abuse. If these topics do feel too raw for you, it is okay to pause, step away, and come back when you are ready. So I know this is really hard. So well done, first of all, for coming in because I know sharing your story when you've not done that, and you know it sharing it for the first time publicly is a really hard thing to do. So thank you so much for using the House of Hair as your place that you're doing that, and well done because it is really brave of you. So you're welcome. Thank you. So let's start from the beginning, first of all. So, how did you meet? How was it at the beginning? Um, I can probably guess how it was at the beginning, like most of them, but yeah, tell us a little bit about how you met him and what it was like.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

So when I met him, I met him through a mutual friend. Yeah. Um, sorry if it takes like sorry.

Hollie 2:56

You take it not getting upset, it just it's just yeah, I know it's a normal part actually, and I think it's really important because when I was listening to a podcast about someone else talking about it, she said the same thing that it can take some time because I feel like sometimes dates, times, all of that just gets so muddled. So I know how hard it is. So honestly, just take the time.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

So we met through a mutual friend. Yeah, um, at the time I wasn't driving, yeah. So it's really random how we met, but I was at work, I'd worked late that night, and at the time I was getting the bus to and from work, so it wasn't the best situation. Um, a friend randomly phoned me. It was like I stayed at work really late that night, so it was like eight o'clock in the evening, and he randomly phoned me and said, Oh, what are you up to? I said, I'm still at work. He said, Oh, I'm just passing through the area. Yeah, and I said, Um, oh I'm at work, I'm just about to get the bus. He said, Oh, I'm literally two minutes down the road, I'll take you home. So I was like, Oh, lovely, great. Went out there, told me that they're in a car, quite in the back of the car, in the front of the car. He was there. There was someone there. Yeah, it's really strange actually because he didn't acknowledge me, he didn't turn around and say hello, he didn't acknowledge me at all. He just faced forward, didn't say hello, nothing, no, nothing. Wow. Um car journey, can I mention areas weird Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Car journey loud and South Woodford didn't say a word to me. Yeah, so I was chatting to the person that was driving, didn't say nothing to me. And then the following day, the mutual friend phoned me and said, the person in the car, he thought you were really nice and he wants your number. He thought you were really polite and you speak really nicely, which I thought was a bit weird. I speak nicely, like that's weird. But now I can look on that and think, do you know what? He prayed on me, like he thought you're a nice, softly spoken, nice again, give us a easy target. Because he didn't see that at the time. No, of course not. Um so mutual friend was like, Shall I give him your number? And I said, Yeah, give him my number and see what happens. Gave him my number, literally within 24 hours, he'd sent flowers to my work. Um, flowers to my work, even on the card, it said I love you. What so I was like, This is a red flag, and I was I promised I love you on the on the card. And to friends, I was like, This is weird, this is a red flag, this is not normal. Who says that?

Hollie 5:37

That is, I mean, I thought I moved quick next month.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

So I spoke to friends about it. That's love bombing to the male level, yeah. Um, mutual friend, male mutual friend. I was like, Look, this is really weird. Like, who does that? Do you not think that's on the phone? Like, do you not think that's really weird? And he was like, and I'm gonna be honest with you, you know, when these were his words, and these always stay in my head. Yeah, he said, you know, when a dog's been abused or it's hasn't been treated very nicely, and then someone comes and gives it love, it doesn't know what to do with it, and that's what you're saying. Saying basically that you don't know I don't know how to accept love or receive love.

Hollie 6:17

I mean 24 hours is still a bit quick though, still a bit quick, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

But yeah, he half agreed with me in that sense, but in the other sense, he was like, Yeah, just give it a chance.

Hollie 6:29

Like he's a nice guy, he's you know almost as well with things like that. As much as you think that they are like, because there's been so many situations that you think, oh my god, no, that's weird, that's weird, but it also makes it a little bit like indeed like I feel like you've probably got that bit in you where you're like, Oh, this is in a bit endearing, and then you think as as weird as it is, you would you kind of want to explore it.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I'll be honest with you, I wasn't like that in the beginning. I was like, nah, nah, nah, this isn't for me, it's not okay, yeah. And obviously, the age thing, I was 31, 32, yeah, he was 46 at the time.

Hollie 7:04

So, yeah, it's a big age gap, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

45 he was, and he lied about that as well. We can talk about that, but yeah, he was like another red flag, yeah. I didn't find that out until later down the line. Well, he said he was younger, yeah. Okay, so he said he was 40, right, and actually he was 45.

Hollie 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Um I've gone off track.

Hollie 7:26

That's all right, no, don't be silly. So you met that way.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

We met that way, he knew the flowers, he sent me the flowers, I was like, no, no, no, no. So that was in the November for months, yeah. With we're talking, we're not meeting up, we're not nothing, there's nothing there. Um, but he's you know, saying, Should we do this, should we do that? I was like, no, no, no. I rejected him. So you was really strong. I was really strong. I was, yeah. I was like, no, I just don't feel that this is right. And and obviously, we have touched himself, we won't go into it, but I have been in abusive relationships in the past, so I saw it as like, no, this is not right. Um months pass, months pass. I go to church, I was praying, I was in a bad place in my life at that time, okay. And I was praying so hard, like just give me direction, give me some kind of something, a direction, yeah. Um, and I felt that as the weeks went on after that, it I was being pushed towards him even more, like in and I can't even explain that, yeah.

Hollie 8:30

But you just felt yourself.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

I just felt yeah, that that was that was my future.

Hollie 8:38

I mean he was very persistent, very persistent, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Considering that you like most would you know and if like I said, I rejected him, if any, I probably mugged him off a little bit if I'm honest, which got used against me down the line. Yeah, um, yeah. So it met him in the November by April. I was like, do you know what? Let's just let's just see where this goes, give it, give it a go.

Hollie 9:03

Um and how was it at that once you'd kind of given in, so you've agreed to go out and take it. How quickly then was it quite quick that it kind of went from like yeah, I mean, well, considering he said I love you in flowers for in trouble fries, I mean imagine.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Obviously, after he'd said it, and I was like, I think I even said to him it's a bit weird, like and he was like, I don't mean that I love you, I'm not in love with you, I'm just he'll just let me know that I I think you're a lovely person, and you know, so he did backtracking that yeah, because it is he, I think he realised that that probably wasn't the right thing to say.

Hollie 9:40

So then it was quite intense. So once you've entered into the relationship, very intense, yeah, very intense, very intense.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Um did you move in? Yeah, he moved into my flat within two months, right? Okay, um, so that's my you know, I privately rented that flat, that was my flat. Yeah, and he came to my home.

Hollie 10:00

And how quickly, so once you've lived together, how quickly was there was there ever a time in that? So obviously, you've you've stayed off for a long time, you've then got into the relationship, it's quite intense. Was there any signs once you were in the relationship? That was there any part of you was you completely into it, or was there parts or bits of his behaviour that you were thinking this isn't right? Did you ever have an inkling that this could be something at that point?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Other than the persistency and you know, like the way that he was trying to get me into a relationship, yeah, which you can see that as a red flag, or you can see that as someone that is really chasing you and really wants you.

Hollie 10:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard, isn't it? Because I think we spoke about this before, and it's almost like I think as you grow up, you're kind of told that if someone wants you hard enough, they won't stop, you know, they will persist you. And I remember, you know, saying to or someone saying, Well, he hasn't tried hard enough, but it's also like when do you take no as no? It's almost a bit well, like harassment, yeah. You know, where's the line of you know, you're persistent, and you know, you want someone to at least that makes you feel cared about. Well, that's how I would look at it. But actually, where is the line of I've told you no? You know, was you ever thinking he's not gonna go away? So I may as well it wasn't it wasn't that um when I got into the relationship with him, it was fine, it was it was fine, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, he hadn't really shown any signs of aggression, no nothing, nothing at all like that.

Hollie 11:44

So was he very much like love bombing?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

He was very charming and couldn't do anything, yeah.

Hollie 11:50

He was lovely, like he was a lovely, you know, and I thought you're an older guy, maybe you know, maybe I need an older guy, someone that's gone through the shit, yeah and then has come out the other side and actually has realised that yeah, and actually it because I think a lot of the time I know when you meet men your uh your own age, men are naturally younger. Sorry, right, men are naturally a little bit more behind, I feel like sometimes maturity-wise, dramatically 100%. I think as you get older, you start thinking, I want an older man. You'd like to think they'd be a little bit more mature anyway.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

You would like to think so, but in this case, not no, as we're gonna hear.

Hollie 12:30

So it was all lovely. How quickly did he move in? Within two months. Wow, so quick quick, quick.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

But that was, I'll be honest with you, that was kind of I mean, that's I would never do that again. I would never ever do that again.

Hollie 12:45

Of course, but when you're being love bombed, and they do, and this is the problem with abusive relationships, is they show up as everything you've ever wanted. He was an older guy, he was charming, you thought he'd been through enough life experiences, and he was going to be this older guy that comes in and shows you what love is and how to be looked after and loved. And so you would, as a woman, when you feel like that, you know, now you would probably have the experience to think, well, that's soon, that's you know, my gut at the beginning was right. But you do get wrapped up in it because ultimately, as well, that is what we want is to be loved. So when someone comes in and they're doing all of that intenseness and they're doing it so quickly, it's so easy to fall into it, yeah. Wrapped up and want to be with them, and you think the natural next step, you know, when you're in your 30s and 40s, the natural next step is to be like, right, let's move in together, but you don't know someone.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

No, you don't. I don't think you ever truly and that's probably the cold side of me, but I don't think you ever truly can know someone.

Hollie 13:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially, I mean, after a couple of months, you know, and I've done it, I've been, I've done it, all my relationships have always been quite intense quite quickly, and that's why I probably none of them have worked out. But I think you don't know someone, and it's so easy for someone to put on an act, but then as we find out that act gets harder and harder to keep up, and then this is where they start trying their true colours. So when did it when was so he was charming? When did that act, because that's what it is, start to crack? When was the first time?

SPEAKER_01 14:23

So the first time was probably May, so a month.

Hollie 14:29

So when sorry, so you met so you went out in the November? We didn't go out, you didn't met, we met in the November.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

We met in November when did you April relationship and then May? Okay. We went to a friend's barbecue, um, and then ended up going to a local bar afterwards. And I had I I was just chatting to people on the door. I I knew the security guards, I was just as you do, as you do. I was just saying hello. He I've turned around and he's gone. He was gone, and I was like, shit, basically gone. Next thing you know, he's like pulled up abruptly outside the bar, and and I I was like, What are you doing? And he's like, in the car, and I didn't know there was a problem at this point. I didn't I didn't know, I just thought, yeah, well, it's not like he made a problem when I was at the door, he just disappeared, and then all of a sudden he's there in the car. Yeah, so I've got in the car because I didn't know there was a problem. Um, and he said that I'd embarrassed him and humiliated him. And how how could I do that? And I was again, like I said, like I've experienced this kind of behaviour before, so I was like, What? Like you can't you can't tell me who to talk to, you can't tell me nothing. I'll I'm going, I'm getting out. And I tried to get out of the car, lock the car. I don't know if you by the George pub, yeah, and you can turn right or left. And we was at those lights, and there was a car next to us, and they're like, they can see what's going on, and they were like shouting, and and he's yeah, locked the car, done the window up, locked the door, done the window up, and I wouldn't say, and this is not me downplaying it, but he didn't punch me, he didn't slap me, it was like a it was like a flick in the it but it did bruise me and it did bleed.

Hollie 16:16

That's not me downplaying it. I think it you you minimize it because I think we we see and I have done this, you see so much with domestic, but that is still abuse, yeah. You know, that is the minute someone puts their hands on you, but in your head, you try and talk yourself around, yeah, and and I think that's natural, it's almost like a a a coping mechanism as well. That we now know that even if that he never laid his hands on you, emotional abuse is things so I think we live in a world where unless like because I would look at things and be like, Well, I wasn't in hospital, I've seen women laying in bed with broke that in comas. I think we all do that. I think we all think and you think actually it's not that bad, and it's the normal, it's a coping mechanism and almost a protective thing for you to get for it and think it's not that bad, but actually it it is bad, and at that point, that's when I should have cut it dead completely.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah, of course. He wasn't living with me at that point, he wasn't living with me. Okay, um, we were it was the first time we got drunk together, yeah. So I felt like the next day we seemed to be. Was it just drinks? Yeah, like alcohol fuelled, like what don't really know what happened, you know. I mean that it's happened in yeah, two weeks, probably probably two weeks, and things were back to normal.

Hollie 17:40

Like I So did he so after this happened.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

He was really sorry. He was really apologetic. Very apologetic, and this is where that cycle starts because it's the ups and downs, it's the that was the first and the last time that he ever apologised. Yeah, okay. The first time it happened was the only time that I ever got that apology afterwards. Violence would happen, there would never be an apology after, you know.

Hollie 18:08

And this is where I guess because I think at the early stages as well, he probably thought if he didn't apologise, he wasn't living with you at this point. He's got no you can cut off, he didn't have his foot in the door enough, yeah, you know, and that would make sense as to why I'd imagine when he's done it the other times, he was living with you, yeah, and he he knows it's a lot easier to keep you in that cycle. Yeah, whereas at that point, I you could have just been like, no, not for me. And yeah, which I should have done. I should have done. Yeah, but listen, we all should have done, but unfortunately, you you were part of that cycle already, you know. You'd already had the love bombing, you'd already had all of that. So by that point, your body and your brain and the chemicals and your nervous system is already starting to get used to them highs and lows, yeah, exactly. Crave that, and also when you have been through it before, it's almost familiar to your body that that cycle, that feeling. You probably have been there before, and your body is that it almost feels safe, which is mad to say, but when it's like, oh, this cycle is back, oh, these feelings are back, and I recognise that, and and we know in our heads it's not good, but our body and how that works, even if something is unsafe, if our body is used to it, it sees it as safe and it sees the unfamiliar as not, so it's a lot quicker for you to fall back into the cycle.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, maybe all right, maybe that, yeah.

Hollie 19:35

Yeah, um, so then so he was violent and then he apologised. You go back into it. How is it after that?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Fine, absolutely fine, yeah. So then after months, he then moved in.

Hollie 19:53

Um and there was no more in between this, was there ever so obviously this was physical. Was there any controllingness? Was there emotional abuse? No, there was none of that, so okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

None of that. He was he liked my family. Obviously, my my family and friends knew about the incident that happened in May. They knew so straight away they're like, No, no, you can't do this, you can't. Um but I did, and then my mum and my sister, me, my mum and my sister were very, very close. My mum and my sister eventually were like, sh people make mistakes. He was after he was violent the first time, he was very much like, I do want to get the help, I don't want to do that again. I don't want to be that person, I'm gonna go to church, I want to do a Bible course, which he did. He did do all of that, he would go every week and he did. Um, so after some time, you know, my mum started to come around a little bit, and yeah, we can be in situations.

Hollie 20:55

If you're if you're sticking to your guns and you're staying in the in the relationship, rather than go against you, maybe as the family, you know, yeah, it's better to it's better to stand by you, and yeah, you know, it's it's all so easy to say in hindsight, but it's such difficult situations to navigate, especially when it's your family, you know. We'd all like to stand and say we would do this and we would do that, but I guess at that point, if you're still staying in the relationship and you're living with that person, they need to know you're safe, and I guess and it's better to be close to someone like that than be pushed away because I've done that in the past. And these people are very good at putting on acts, yeah. You know, and if he's doing all the study, I'm not saying it's right, and not saying, you know, the minute someone lays hands on you, but I guess when you know, as a family, when you're seeing that and you're see, you know, you as well as you being manipulated, they are everyone's being manipulated, aren't they? Into this act of they're this person and they're doing this and they're never gonna. do it again we spoke about off camera at this point you done was it at this point you've done a claire's law yeah I've done a claire's law okay so for anyone listening a claire's law um we've spoken about on previous episodes is basically a police disclosure that you can do you don't have to no one has to have been violent with you you can go to the police and request someone's history so um this is completely confidential and you fit in a form online I will actually put the link to it in the show notes but you can go and request if you've got any suspicions even if they've not been violent but you just suspect something you can get their history and if there is anything violent on there even if it's not towards a woman and because I know I had that they have to share it with you and this will be completely confidential and then you can decide what to do with that information but if someone has had any violent history it will be on Claire's law so just to explain for anyone listening what this is.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

So here's Claire's law was shocking it went back to 1999 of just and what year was this in last year? No this was 2024 I mean still yeah and was it all violence against women yes yeah yeah and at this point at this point I was in love with him yeah I probably wasn't I was I probably wasn't up until probably May and probably May time I just didn't even though I'd gone in I just didn't I didn't love him but do you think did you have that feeling of I can be the one to fix him?

Hollie 23:59

Yeah yeah I'm already that person or I he doesn't need fixing because he's doing the church he's doing the church stuff and he's he's of an age you know like this stuff was all past it was nothing recent there was nothing like 2020 or anything it kind of was I think the last incident was 2016 so I was like do you know what like we discussed everyone's got a pass you've got a pass you've and but already you were downplaying it in your head because you had you'd had that incident within yourself you've been violent I can already see that it's in I've already seen it I've already shown me and I think that's really important for people when someone shows you who they are believing the first time yeah that's it well they do say actions speak louder than words and in this case it couldn't be more more true could it but isn't it mad how like even even after he's been violent with you and I know you say oh you didn't hit me didn't he still laid his hands on you that was controlling because just because you were talking to someone that you looked at his Claire's law and thought well nothing's recent and completely completely yeah but disregarded all the rest of it and all the other red flags yeah yeah yeah that's mental because I loved him at that point if that had have happened three months before you think you'd have found it easier to walk quite but I loved him at that point and I was well also he's been the violent and then he's been this good guy and then he's been that back to the night in shining armour so already we've got the highs we've got the lows we've got the love bombings we've got the I'm he's this perfect man he's made a mistake and already you're in that in that loop yeah quick quick quick quickly if if we're being honest yeah I mean because yeah yeah yeah it's not actually a big time frame November so it is still in yeah it's very intense it is intense yeah um so how quickly after this did you fall pregnant? So this continued and then you didn't yeah so we had we after the first violent incident there was no more it was no more there was no arguments we we we always got on I would say we always got on we always laughed we always had good times together he worked I worked we would just have this very simple life we'll just go to work come back together at the end of the day have nice dinner do nice things like it's just everything that and this is so important as well because this is a bit like my experience in the fact of so many women will be going through this and not believing it's abuse because you have those good moments because you are sitting there having normal dinners oh he's been violent once and then for three months he's he's fine and that minimizes what it actually is and so many women will relate to this because I think there is so many people out there confused thinking it's so because they live a normal life you know I remember he would be violent the next day two hours three hours later we'll be on the sofa cuddling up watching a movie and and it just becomes normal so I think the fact that you are talking about this and you know you had that episode but then you had the best relationship the best relationship we and and the pregnancy wasn't um a surprise yeah you know we knew it could happen we knew it could happen we knew that we were having unprotected sex and we knew it could happen at any point we were so happy like so happy we went on holiday we had the best time we went on holiday in October I felt pregnant in the sep no September October September went on holiday October I felt pregnant we were so happy so so happy my really really good friend one of my best friends she suggested that I terminate the baby she knew she knew she knew you know when someone knows she knew and I I best friends always do I turned on her completely I don't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

I shut her out completely I cut her out my life because I can't I can't have you in my life he was constantly on about her always always always probably because he knew that actually like what saying that she's no good she's no good for you she's no good for you she I don't I don't want my child around her yeah and I just thought oh my god I don't I don't want this lovely so the easiest thing to do as well is to just take out the friend because you know you're living with him you're in this bubble you're in the abuse cycle you might not have known it at the time and he knows what he's doing and also you know they know the longer they that the when someone is around you and they are slagging off your friend without you even realizing you start to almost believe the things they're saying so everything they do you're seeing now in a negative light yeah you you start seeing your friends in a different way because I done it he would and I would never look at my friends' behaviour and he would say certain things about how they'd act and you would probably be the same and then you start thinking oh do you know what yeah actually that's it's not funny I don't know what it's really not funny.

Hollie 29:07

No but that is it's what happens you start seeing in your friends in the same light that they do.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

And then before you know it like you're just yeah and then you and then it's easier to cut them out than it is than to deal with them every single day in your ear about that person and then you just like and then it overwhelms you overwhelms you and you just think the best thing to do here like you said is just cut that person out and then I I don't have to deal with that. Yeah absolutely um so you obviously didn't listen no obviously you didn't listen I have always wanted to be a mum and thank God because you've got your beautiful he is the best thing that ever happened to me. Little boy right yeah little boy and if I'm honest I would go through I would go through that again to have him in the end. Yeah I would yeah but it's so hard isn't it when there's children involved because it's like something so traumatic but obviously at this point the only incident that's happened is the little flick in the car in the face we've got over that now we've we've had a lovely summer I'm pregnant what could I want you know I mean this is this is the best time of my life at this point.

Hollie 30:10

So through the pregnancy he was fine he was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

He wasn't just fine he was amazing like he he would was everything you want everything that a woman would want in a man yeah and then you have the baby had the baby um when was the baby born July 21st 24 summer baby summer baby I was in lay bar for a week um had a really traumatic birth which resulted in baby going into neonatal for 10 days to intensive care for 10 days that was horrible it was it was awful um he was there for the the birth he was there every he never left my side when I was pregnant like he didn't you know like I said it was just a very normal relationship yeah go to work we'd come home we'd see family you know it was just normal um also sorry just to but when you're going through that and when you're pregnant also you're not going out you're not drinking you're not seeing your friends yeah you're not doing all those things so you're eliminating actually what would normally be like through the summer you would normally if he wasn't pregnant probably be going out would he have been the same then yeah and that's the thing you know when you're pregnant and you're spending all your time with him and you know he knows he's got you and you're not living your normal life he's got nothing is that enough for him at that point there's no real huge triggers I mean I'm sure he'd have they always find something as we find out but it could have been a very different story had you not have been pregnant. Yeah but then saying that after I'd had the you know after I'd had the baby if yeah if anything you're more restricted when you've got a newborn baby than you are when you're pregnant I would say um but when I had the baby he went into neonatal he was transferred I had him at Whipp's cross he was transferred to Homerton within hours of birth he disappeared um I just remember being in the hospital he disappeared so yeah say he disappeared don't say his name he disappeared from the hospital um I just remember being in the hospital my baby was gone he was gone and I just I was just I was just in shock like I just remember just being so shocked that I can't even explain it like I can't I can't even imagine but to have a baby grab a baby for nine months and then just not it not be there and that's not what we're talking about here but you know I mean that was a massive thing oh my god and to not have your partner there so where where would he I couldn't tell you I couldn't even tell you so in that instant when you needed within the mile yeah when I needed him the absolute most he he wasn't there and that that was like did you try and ring him yeah I'm ringing him and he's not answering not answering or he'd answer and be like I'm just having a drink with my cousin like that casually that casually and I'd be like sorry you're you're what like where who's your cousin who's your cousin because not seen him no like or heard of you being with any like you know he he didn't really go out himself like it was just so all of a sudden the day my son was born you where are you and who are these people that you're with um so I got discharged from hospital the next day and I remember sitting there and I'm ringing his phone he wouldn't answer and I'm like fucking hell like what am I gonna do how how am I gonna get home like what am I so he's literally just left me in the hospital I mean I can't even imagine your cage you need to take him in no right um that was probably the that yeah but I was inside you know like being a new mum it's it's just it's a shocking experience anyway I think so I was just like I just don't know what's going on right now do you know what I mean I don't know what's going on my baby's gone you're gone I remember ringing my friend and saying can you go to my flat can you see if he's there can you see if his car's there like I need someone to pick me up like I'm I've and having to deal with that on top of a baby like I mean becoming a mum like you said anyway but having a baby in a different hospital in intensity in intensity and there's no one there with him there's no one there with him wow yeah my legs are literally like um my friend went to my flat banged on the door and he came down and he was asleep and and she was like honey like afterwards we've had a conversation she was like I was so scared that I was gonna go there and he was going to be with someone else and I said yeah like that's what I thought that is what what because what else would you think you would you would what would you think um but he wasn't so yeah he came and got me from the hospital but I was like do you like do you realise the stress you've just caused me and he was just like no he didn't really understand it he didn't it was kind of like it was so blasé and such a light and I'm like because when someone when you're thinking in your head this is so you were almost and would you almost relieved that he just wasn't with someone else yeah so it's almost like oh he was asleep so we're let him asleep but that's not okay in that particular you were just relieved at that point that he's come he wasn't with someone else so in actual fact it's not that bad is how we're bad see it it's not that bad it's not as bad as what my brain where my brain was going when I'm sitting in that hospital that he's in bed with someone else I mean he must they all know what they're doing but like for him to just casually go asleep knowing that you were being that you were in hospital he's been out drinking like he would have known what that was doing to you yeah I mean I I don't know that this is something that I battle with my head not just in that situation but the the whole situation I think do you know what you're doing do you do you is it calculated is it do you you know or do you just do it knowing that it's going to hurt someone and you just become carefully what they was doing they know exactly what they're doing they do it's a hard thing to because you can't imagine but thank god we can't imagine yeah how someone can do that but how could you treat there is no way with a baby in intensive care and your partner that you would not be there like you know and and because that was such a big thing for me you know like my I didn't want him to be with me to be with the baby like someone needs to be with the baby you know because in neon age where you're only allowed parents and grandparents yeah that's it so it's not like I could have got a friend or something I at this point I'm still in the hospital recovering myself in Omar. You've just had a baby had a four steps delivery as well so it was like it was yeah it's hard I couldn't walk and then when I went to see the baby for the first time he picked me up took me home from the hospital I I showered I got changed and I was like I need to go to the the hospital and he gave me the car keys and I was like I don't know if I can drive I'm not sure if I can drive yet you know and he was like it makes you feel sick um I drove to hospital to Hompton hospital so he didn't go with me and I don't know if you know him there's no parking yeah so I had to park 20 minutes away from when I tell you like my legs were like this like it it took me I think 45 minutes to get from the car to the the neonatal unit and when I'm in the hospital like I should have been in a wheelchair so that's how bad it was like it was awful um and I walked from the car I'll always remember this when I was walking like and I'm literally hobbling a crackhead was walking and he I was like I I'm following my map and I'm like I need to get to the hospital and and he was like I'll I'll walk with you and I was like but at this point I was like yeah and he walked with me and he went do you want me to come in with you and I went no thank you but you're gonna thanks but you know like in that the most probably the most vulnerable the per yeah that that's what you've had to do.

Hollie 38:32

Yeah but the person that was there for me was a stranger on the street and not the man who was the father of no wow um so so had he seen the baby at this point?

SPEAKER_01 38:43

He saw the baby when the baby was born and then that was then the baby got taken upstairs to the neonatal and went to cross and then got transferred so no he he saw the baby when he was born um but no and and did was there a c you know was when he said to you right you go what was his route did he give a reason as to why do you I'm tired I'm tired because I've been I've been out all night oh poor man no um right so you wow um so you go and see the baby so I went so how long did the baby have to stay in intensive care for ten days and then you could bring him yeah home so he I didn't know that at that point every day at that point you're just taking each day each day as it comes each hour as it comes just and did he go to the hospital at all in those ten days twice well twice and the second time it was boiling hot it was July it was boiling boiling hot and I was on a ward I was right by the window I had the sun it was it was yeah horrible um he bought me a fan and and I remember like he literally came dropped this fan and left and I was like I just I at this I'm just thinking like am I am I the problem here like am I of course you do that's what happened like what's happening here what's happening am I a problem am I expecting too much yeah but obviously I'm there with other mums with their partners and then but I can't even imagine like and I'm thinking what the fucking hell what has just gone on like what what's gone on because the whole time that I and how selfish that you have to think of him and that while your baby's in intensive care. The one time the one one time that he did come into the neonatal you've got other babies mums and dads and obviously a lot of the dads have their top top to do skin to skin with their babies there was a guy and he was accusing me of looking at him and him looking at me and I just was like you've just got to go like wow and after that I didn't encourage him to come back as you want because they were nervous yeah so then when you when you go home what's it like then so you the baby comes out of hospital you go out he comes and picks us up I I remember that day as well like I'm calling him like right have we already to come home ready um I got was she nervous to go home no no because I think I I've I'm all I've always been a healthy fit person so to be in a hospital environment I also got readmitted into hospital I got discharged from WIPS and then I got admitted into Homington because I had retained placenta so there was more like there was more yeah going on with me as well um so at that point after like the whole 10 days I just I just want to go home I just want to go home I just want to start what we planned you know and even my mum at that point because the birth was so traumatic and um my mum was like look that was a very traumatic experience for everyone my mum was traumatised she was like I think it just needs a bit of time you know like he's not he's not himself you're right he's not acting this isn't normal behaviour but she gave him the benefit of the doubt even after what had happened yeah prior um yeah and then how was the home life home life was I was on my own he just would go out he would just go out all the time and like I said it that was never our relationship before the main complete it was a complete yeah 360 of of dynamic of the whole relationships drinking drugs never been a part of our relationship like I said that one time we went out and had a drink in the beginning and it ended the way it did was we never really done that again drink and alcohol drink and drugs never a part of us it was never that I've never been a party girl I've never been a drinker really like it's just not really my life um so for him to all of a sudden be be that I'm like whoa like I I didn't I didn't know this side of you and he's constantly going out I'm obviously I say I was ringing him with I wasn't because I was just of motherhood yeah like and do you think that in his head like it's so hard to try and understand even after like to try and understand what goes through their brain yeah do you think that he thought I've got a baby with her now that's it I've got her yeah I do so all of that up until then and then you've got the baby he knows he's tied to you he's got that connection and he changes yeah he'd make me feel shit about anything and everything to do with the baby you know like you're you've never done the amount of times I've heard this which makes absolutely no sense you've never done this before you don't know what you're doing and I'd be like Mark no mother has ever done it before until they've done it. No one no one no one knows Possible to know what you're doing until you're doing it with the baby. Um, and I just used to say, Why are you saying that? Like it used to really trigger me inside, and you said, Why are you saying that?

Hollie 44:09

Yeah, because that's the worst thing. It I think as well, you know, you can put your anyone down about you know, not saying it's nice and white and whatever, but the minute you uh attack the children or your ability to how you parent the children, that's a whole nother diff level of you know how that's gonna affect it. You've got all of this going on, your baby's been in intensive care, you've had a traumatic birth, you've got all your hormones going around in those beginning stages anyway. To have someone then putting you down is how you are as a mum.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

I was trying to breastfeed and he'd come in, and and I did find it hard to breastfeed. I think probably because I didn't hold him until he was four days old. Do you know what I mean? So it was a bit of post-natal depression. Yeah, a bit of postnatal depression. Maybe the bonding didn't happen the way that it should. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, but I he used to come in and be like, he doesn't want it, he doesn't want it, he doesn't want it, and I'll be like, I just I just need to get it right.

Hollie 45:00

It does you know, and I think there's so much pressure on breastfeeding and stuff anyway, isn't there? So that just makes you feel like you're not doing the right, yeah, the right job, and then I think you don't you feel like you've which is absolutely not true. I breastfed and done it for two weeks and then gave up, but I feel like even from a nurse's point of view, sometimes it makes you feel like if you don't if you start and you don't do it, you've almost feel like you failed at something, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 45:23

I did persevere with it, but I didn't get the support, and to have someone telling you your baby doesn't want it, your baby doesn't even want it, and you're just sitting on the bed like it does. Do you know what I mean? I just learning, you're learning, of course, and I think it's so important to have a good partner by your side when you have a baby. Oh my god, I mean, absolutely, absolutely. Obviously, it doesn't work out that way for a lot of people, yeah.

Hollie 45:50

But I mean that listen, there's a difference of things not working out, isn't there? Then you know, you can be people don't work out in relationships together, but you can still have enough respect to be there for the baby and to support the woman that you're you know, especially that early on, like to do the 360 that you've done in the world. That's already happening, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah, all that's already kind of going on, and I'm I was just I just um I was dazed. I wasn't angry, I wasn't upset. I was just probably numb.

Hollie 46:20

I was I would be numb to you probably don't know what's going on at this point. So when so obviously he's done a complete 360. When did the violence come back in again?

SPEAKER_01 46:32

When was so my son was six weeks old um and he'd gone out not my son, him, yeah, he'd gone out um again. It was like I don't know half one, two in the morning, and I'm ringing his phone, like, where are you, where are you? He wasn't answering, and then he just strolls through the door, probably about two or three in the morning. It was the middle of the night. Um and and I did confront him. I was like, This, you know, by this point they've been kind of just and I'm like, what is going on? Like you can't what do you think this is? Do you know what I mean? Like, what what is going on here? And he had his phone in his hand, and he didn't he came in, didn't even take his coat off, it didn't take his shoes off. I was on the sofa with the bed, I had the baby on my arms, and yeah, he just came over to me with the phone shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up, hit me like in the face with the phone. I was just like what? And then that was it, he left. He just went straight back out. There was no I don't know, he didn't if I I don't know if I'd have maybe said something back or something. I I was just shocked. I was just like, I can't believe he'd just done that, I can't believe he's just done that.

Hollie 47:44

And then he just left.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

How did you fit that in that? Was you just in shock? I was in so much shock, so much shock. Um, yeah, it was the middle of the night. I I just remember, I know this is really random, but I just needed a vape. Like I just was like, I just need a vape, and I remember ordering a vape um on delivery from King's Cross because that was the only place that I could get a bloody vape from, and I just remember just yeah, just sitting there vaping with a couple babies with that. I don't know what's just gone on, I don't know.

Hollie 48:12

Honestly, I mean I can't even like it's it's so hard to like I think knowing as a because I'm a mum as well. I think knowing those emotions that you go through becoming a mum, even in a good relationship, whatever relationship, but to have all of this going on, and to have it so you know, okay, you'd had the instant before, but then like you said, in between it's such a person to literally overnight your whole reality of what you believe this family life is going to be, yeah, your experience as a new mum, the traumatic, but all of that to then this, like I cannot, I cannot.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah, that's it, and then you're you're literally just your reality.

Hollie 48:56

I mean it takes away your whole experience. Not I don't mean it takes away, listen, you've got a beautiful baby, but it it does, it you know it ruined it doesn't grow up. I didn't enjoy it, I did enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

When I talked to my parents, I didn't enjoy everyone's stage, like I don't really remember it. Like I'm sure that a lot of people don't anyway, without any violence.

Hollie 49:13

Without any of that, yeah, it's hard enough to get through, you know, when you're working together in a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

But just surviving it, and I wasn't I yeah, I'd done everything that I needed to do for my baby, but I I didn't enjoy it. I didn't know I didn't.

Hollie 49:26

So then so does he come back? What what so how was the relationship after that? So you've got this, so he has this so he's done that.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

So yeah.

Hollie 49:36

Um I think the next day I'd just brush it under the carpet. Did you think in your head at that point I'm done? No, no, no, no. Did you just what did was you wanting him to come back? Was you it?

SPEAKER_01 49:51

I think, and I don't want to keep on going on about motherhood, but I think because it it's I was in the thick of it, like I just didn't have the the brain capacity to think about that side of things too much, like it was just like this is what he just needs to be on. He's going out all the time. I'm now just him. That's just that's just where it is. Yeah, um, and that went on for some time, um, from October to December.

Hollie 50:22

Um, in between this, so he's been violent again. Was there was was things continuing as normal? Like would he come home and things would be good?

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Yeah, well how was the he was drinking a lot, so he'd go out drinking and then go missing for days, um, and then come back with his tail between his legs. Like, I know we're fucked up, I know we're fucked up. I when I start drinking, start taking drugs, and I see your f your name on my phone ringing, ringing, ring, it gives me anxiety, so I can't deal with it. So I was like, Oh, I can understand that, but we've really got to stop you've got to knock yourself in the head the drink of the drugs. I don't even know what drugs he was taking, to be honest with you. I suspect that it was like bad, sad, yeah, yeah.

Hollie 51:08

Um because I think the actually, um I've got a guest coming on next week who will be a really good one actually to watch, and she's actually coming on with her partner, and they work with women going through abuse with men that are battling addiction. And um, it's really interesting because although that makes them I don't want to say worse, underneath that they are still that person, it's just almost like they get the drink and it fuels it that little bit more, and then you've got something to blame, and then you're blaming it on that like you did at the beginning. It's something to blame every time it was blind.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

When I was saying that the last time he wasn't drunk, it was the middle of the day. So no, but in your head to get your head round, isn't it? So it's not every time it's happened, then it was always alcohol from his side, like it it you know, or drugs used under the influence or something, yeah. Um, so yeah, uh you're right, it is easy to go to know blame it on that.

Hollie 52:06

Like it's not him, yeah, it's not yeah, that's and when he's coming off it, he's sorry.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Exactly, yeah. Like after a because yeah, sometimes he wouldn't be drunk or in drugs, but it would be the days after, yeah. And then he's needy and vumble and needy, you know, sorry, and yeah, but obviously he'd be going out for days on it, and then coming home. I you know, I just need to go and wash my hair for a minute, mate. Do you know what I mean? Like I just need a minute, yeah.

Hollie 52:28

He'd get in bed and go to sleep, and I'd be like, You've like you're fucking but then I guess when you're going like that and it sends you mad, it's then you need to be this it's because you're acting like this and it's it's gaslighting, it's gaslighting, completely gaslighting, and then you know, you're you're uh get probably shouting as you know any normal mutt person would when this was going on, and then you're blamed for the behaviour and you make them the way they are, yeah, and that's where it begins. Yeah, wow, and how long did this go on for?

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Um so December 24. So my son was six months old.

Hollie 53:07

Um he and was there violence in between so from the one that you'd done no, okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

So no physical violence.

Hollie 53:17

Just it it was just there so to go. I mean, all the other abuse of emotional abuse.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Yeah. December, he again this the drink and the drugs is still a problem, still a problem. New not New Year's Eve, Christmas Eve. I remember being so excited to go to church on Christmas Eve with my baby. We've we'd been the previous year, me and him, no baby, and I was so excited to go again with our baby, so excited, and I'd been to my friends. Um, I've gone home in the afternoon thinking, right, like it's four o'clock, we need to get ready to go to church. And I'd got home and he was up his face on MDMA, and I was like gobsmacked, like what's going on here? Do you know what I mean? Like we've got a baby, we've got a baby, like we've got to be. Wow, yeah. Um, and that was it, was that like the yeah, like that got my back up. Um we still had a nice Christmas day together, we had a nice Christmas day together. He worked shift work, so he'd work in the in the nights, so he'd go to work at like six and come back at seven in the morning. Um and this particular day he he was it was like a come down situation, yeah. Um, and he was on the phone with someone, I don't know who, and he was talking about me, and he was saying, you know, she she's what I said before, she's she's a new mum, she doesn't know what she's doing, she's never done this before. And I was like, he's holding the baby. And I was like, Mark, why are you talking about me like that? And he turned around and was like, I don't know what makes you think that you're so important that I'd be talking about you. Like that was gaslighting again, do you know? Because you just think you've clearly fucking are talking about me, you know, yeah. You're doing it right in front of my face, yeah. Um, and I was like, just give me the baby. Like he's he's at this point just verbally abusing me, give him give him a baby. Don't get to talk to me or talk about me like that. You're holding my son, like give him to me. And he wouldn't, so I've gone to walk out of the room, and he's stood up and booted me, kicked me so hard in the tailbone. I had an epple jaw as well, like so, like my body was still in bits from it was pain that I've never felt before, like it was so so painful. And I just remember going down to the floor, like screaming, like, no, this really it really hurts, it really hurts, it really hurts. You know, like when I've watched your story and like the fingers, when you know, like a little flick in the face, but when you're actually you it fucking hurts so bad, you know what I mean? You're like, please just just stop, like you know, when you're in that situation and it's like, are you gonna stop? Like, what what's gonna happen here? And he just I don't know, I he he thrived when I was down peak. Yeah, um yeah, and that that progressed. So on that day, I don't know, he lost it, he lost it completely. Completely lost it, he locked the doors. Um like I said, he was going to work that night, so at this point it's probably about three o'clock in the afternoon, and I knew that he would leave for work at six. So when this began, I knew I just have to keep quiet. Just you've just got to ride this out, and he's gonna go to work, and then you can then you can do something.

Hollie 56:48

But right now you've just got to and that is the best thing to do because when you say you're gonna leave that can just escalate.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

I've said that and that has made it worse.

Hollie 56:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Um yeah. So he goes to work. He went to work and I uh phon a really, really good friend that I went to school with, so a a long friend, my longest friend. Um, and she this hurts me to talk about. She put me on loudspeaker, she was with her husband and her children, she put me on loudspeaker, and it was almost like it was a bit of entertainment. Wow, all I wanted was for her to say, I'm getting in the car, didn't have a car, that's another story. But I did have a car before I was with him, and then later into the relationship before the baby, he was like, Let's just get a car together, we'll get a car together. So I didn't have a car, so he's gone to work in the car, I didn't have a car. All I wanted was for her, bearing you're not a single mum, you've got a husband there, yeah. Your husband could have looked after the kids, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could you should have got in the car and come to me, yeah. But she didn't, she just had no loud speaker, and she phoned my sister. I didn't want my sister at that point.

Hollie 58:07

I I because you know once your family are involved, that's it, it's done, and you don't necessarily you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

You don't know where you're out, just all just too much to deal with. You just I just knew I need to get me and this completely out of this house, and I just need to get away. And she phoned my sister. My sister was like, if I come and get you, if I come and do all of this, because my family don't live in London or Essex, they're in Wells away. Yeah, so she said, If I come and do all of this, then you know you you can't go back, you can't do it, you can't go back to him.

Hollie 58:37

And that's just pressure you don't need at that moment. And I was like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

But sh my sister came, yes, sir. She came and she took us um to her house. She had a spare room, so uh at this point I'm he strangled me, so that was what I had bruises all over my neck. Um yeah, at this point I'm in my sister's spare room and I'm like, what is going on here? That's my flat. It's not even his, it's mine. And now I'm in my sister's spare bedroom with a newborn baby. I'd literally I'd I'd taken everything out of drawers. Yeah, I had all his clothes, I had all my clothes, I had everything. Yeah, and yeah, yeah. After a couple of weeks, I looked at flats down in the area that my mum, my sister lived in. I was like, I just you know, when you're just in that limbo, like I don't know what I'm gonna do, I don't know, I don't know what to do. And in the end, I was like, I want to go home, I just want my home. I you know, I want my routine with my baby in my home, and I want I want my friends and I just want your life my normal life.

Hollie 59:38

Why should you have to walk away from everything?

SPEAKER_01 59:40

So I went back um and I went back after two weeks, so this was January. Um and I went down his phone beginning of February last year. Um and I found messages on his phone to a female asking, well not asking, but sh having conversations about me um saying to her that I make it really hard for him to have a relationship with his son. Make that make sense when you're living with me, and all I do is beg for you to be at home.

Hollie 1:00:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Um painting me out to be a horrible, horrible person and asking her to beat me up, which I was just I just couldn't believe my eyes, you know. I was like, what am I reading? This was early in the morning, it was about seven o'clock in the morning, and I'd gone into the bedroom. He was in bed, obviously. Um and I was like, Well, what is this? Like, what is this? And he jumped up out of bed, like he was coming for me, and I had the baby, I had pajamas on, baby still had pajamas on. I just ran outside, I just ran. That was it, yeah. Um went to a neighbour's house, called the police. That all that day, obviously, like I said, it was early in the morning, it was seven o'clock in the morning. Um, I was just saying to him, You need to go, you need to go, you need to go. And he wouldn't go at that point. I was like, I don't want this anymore. This is done now. I'm done. You need to go, you need to leave my flat. He wouldn't. Where am I gonna go? Where am I gonna go? When you find me somewhere to go, then I'll go. And I was like, We're sharing a car. So the end negotiation of it was he take the car, take the car at that point. You just like just whatever you whatever could be. Take the car, yeah. So that was the the end, the end, yeah, of the relationship.

Hollie 1:01:34

And so you've got, I know you've mentioned you got a you managed to get so after that. How was the co-parenting?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

The co-parenting obviously from February he moved out, things were we didn't really talk, do you know what I mean? You've you've done what you've done to me. It's yeah, I don't want to talk to you. He didn't really want to talk to me, but to be honest with you, it was just like yeah, we're just not gonna talk. It got to probably May last year, and he was like, I want to see our son. And I I'm very much a person that thinks that whatever's happened in your relationship, you shouldn't stop children.

Hollie 1:02:14

But you're a good person as well, so you always think of I thought I was doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Yeah, I really thought that put all that aside, I don't want my son not to have a dad, I don't want that for him. I'm not even thinking about you, I'm thinking about my son not having a dad, and that upsets me, you know. Um so I started letting him see him, we'd go out to the park, we'd go out for dinners together, like as a family, but not in a relationship, no sexual relationship, no nothing. It was just yeah, we would meet up and have a nice time with our son. Um fast forward to October, sorry, um, October 2024, normal day. By this point, obviously, from May up until October, you know, it's been okay. Okay, it's been a yeah, you've moved co-parenting, not in relationship to co-parenting. He's now moved out of the way.

Hollie 1:03:09

Which is you know a hard thing to do when considering everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Considering everything that's happened, yeah, but I still put all that aside and still yeah. So he's come to visit our son on a normal day in October. Um his mood was just not quite right. Um, we'd been out to a dance class with the baby. I needed help with all the stuff back up the stairs when we got back, so it came up, and then it was baby's nap the time, so I said, Mike, like he's not gonna go, yeah, he's not gonna go to sleep. Um, all the time I hear he need to go. And he starts getting aggressive, body language changes, everything kind of changes, and he used to call me this a lot, but it triggered me. He was like, shut the fuck up, you fucking idiot. And I was like, Do you know what? You do not get to talk to me. I'm holding, I don't get any financial help from him, nothing.

Hollie 1:04:03

You're holding it all together.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

I'm holding it all together. You've violated me in the past, I've still allowed you, and here you are again talking to me like that, and you don't get to do that, you don't get to do that to me. And he had he picked the baby up off the bed, walked into the kitchen, I followed him, and I was frustrated at this point. I was like, get the fuck out of my house, give him my baby, get the fuck out of my house, and he um strangled me for all me. With one hand, he's holding the baby, and he dropped the baby on the floor to put his other hand upon my phone. And yeah, I was looking for frantically looking for my phone. I've actually got the baby now, and I'm looking for my phone. And he followed me. I'm sitting on the sofa at this point with my phone, taken my phone, and he just started kicking me um in the legs. And then I ran, I ran about the house. He followed me this time, he followed chased me. Got to a neighbour banging on the door at the neighbour's house. She's opened, I've gone straight in, and he's then like he didn't go for her, but he towered over her. I'm coming in, my son's in there. No not, she shut the door. Wow, and we called the police, and yeah, the police came, um, but they were like minutes too late by the time he they he literally left and they turned up. Um he did sit outside neighbour's house for a good ten minutes. And did what did the police do? So the police that came, they were they were good, I would say. They were they were like, Look, if you're saying that he's just gone two minutes ago, let's not even take a statement yet, let's just get back in the car, we're gonna go and get him. I've given his address, yeah. So they knew what direction he was heading in.

unknown 1:05:59

They

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Went there and they came back and they said he wasn't there, we we haven't found him, we don't know, you know. But they said to me, I remember them saying, like, it's a matter of time, it will happen by the end of the day, it will happen by the end of the day. And did they? No, they it then went quiet after that, it went completely quiet from the police. Um, just that obviously he was wanted and there was a warrant out for his arrest. Um, the police automatically, I think anytime any domestic violence is reported with the police, they have to report to social services. Yeah, so within hours of this traumatic thing happening to me, I've got that to deal with. Yeah, and I've caught it.

Hollie 1:06:41

And then that makes you feel like you're what have I done? What have I done? You're getting more interrogation than what they're not interested in him.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

Yeah, they weren't interested in him, they was interested in me. They was interested in how I'm going to protect my child, what are you gonna do about this? And it's just so overwhelming at that moment, so yeah. I understand though, in in the same way, I understand because of course, yeah.

Hollie 1:07:04

But at that time when you've got all of this going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

You have to look at individual cases, and in my case, I'm the one that called the police. No one called the police on my behalf, yeah, I called the police, I'm the one that reached out to the police.

Hollie 1:07:18

You know, get him and and do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

Yeah, because at this point, I've I've called the police, he's out there doing what he wants, and now I'm here broken with social services.

Hollie 1:07:29

Social services, which is a whole nother layer. So you did go on to get so you I mean the police weren't great, but you did go on to get a so he's not no longer part of the so after that incident you've cut him out, or he could yeah, he's no longer making no no contact. No contact, but you did go on to get a non-molestation order.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Yeah, so I was contacted again. The police give out your details to domestic violence victim charities, like all of a sudden you're being bombarded by like social services, yeah, um charities, and it's just like, oh my god, I don't know what I just it was too much for me at my ways. Um I was offered legal aid because I wasn't earning enough. But this is something that is important if you're not if you're earning a decent wage, if you know, not even a decent wage, if you're just earning, you know, then you have to pay for your non-molestation order. It's a civil order that goes for a family call, and it's down to you to pay for that. So, luckily, I got funded by the legal aid, but if you're earning this a certain amount, then you have to pay for it yourself, and it's not cheap, it's it's about mine was£7,000. Why should we pay?

Hollie 1:08:55

I wow, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Yeah, it's not a criminal, it's a it's a civil, it's a civil order, so you you pay for it yourself, you don't. In my case, you don't, but and I'm I found it quite shocking. I think it's shocking. I mean, I actually know someone that's in a situation where they want to get a non-monestation and they're gonna have to pay for it themselves, and it's like well, we're gonna start a petition about that now.

Hollie 1:09:22

Yeah, I think we should.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

You shouldn't have to pay for that yourself.

Hollie 1:09:26

Oh way. Oh my god. Yeah, right. Well that's something we're gonna look into. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

I've got the non-monestation. And what does the non-monestation order? So non-monestation order stops him from contacting me for And how long you got it for I got it for two years. Okay, so generally they're one. Um the judge did say that she felt that it needed two years, and and she did she was very vocal about how she felt that the police had let me down. Um and once I had the non-ministation in place, the police did actually arrest him by chance. Um, and because I'd already done what I'd done because I didn't feel safe because she hadn't arrested him, I've got my own protection. Do you know what I mean?

Hollie 1:10:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've had to do that yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

Yeah, and I also had to do it for the social service, I had to do that. Like that's that they would, you know, and when I say I had to, for me, there was no choice, but for some mums, because I read stories and I look at stories where mums are in this situation and they can't get out of it for whatever reason, like maybe the abuse is I don't know, top-notch doing it.

Hollie 1:10:35

And they're in the that, you know, it's easy. Luckily for you, luckily for you. Your home was your home if it wasn't in his name, but this is the problem, is it's so me and my best friend talk about this. If I wasn't financially dependent on it, and I had that, and they always said to me, you know, if he was, it's it's a different story.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

See why would be cancelling for so long.

Hollie 1:10:56

For so long, it's been like if you've if you own a house together or it's his house, it's if you've got that cycle of the trauma bond and all of that, but you're financially dependent, and that's just I mean, all I had to think financially was right, I'm gonna lose£500 a month from you, like yeah, yeah, you can make that work, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

But if you've got no home, you've got no you can stand on women's day, why women's day 100%.

Hollie 1:11:20

Wow, babe. Um I mean you are amazing, so yeah. You are honestly amazing to go through all of that and while becoming a navigating motherhood, um is just like yeah, I mean, the perfect person to have on on International Women's Day because what an empowering to see you now and how you are, and you know, building your life back up again for you and your little boy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

For me, there was no choice, and that's what I yeah, there was no choice because I I I wanted a better life.

Hollie 1:11:57

You know, thank God in a way that well not in a way, but that you had to because our children help us, you know, go on, and he was that strength that got you through it, but also got you out of it. Yeah, um, and thank you so much for sharing your story. And I think you know, you've raised such amazing points with you know, number one, how normal abusive relationships can seem the Claire's Law, which is a massive thing, but also you know, the non-molestation order, and that's definitely something that we're gonna have to work on because that is absolutely insane. And yeah, I wish you all the best, you're gonna help so many women, and you are amazing and a beautiful. That's you know, when I posted the video that I posted, for me, if it was to help resonate with one person, just one, and that's the thing, and I think with this, you know, it's will get a whole nother audience of I didn't have to struggle through motherhood with that. There'll be so many women that are navigating that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:03

And honestly, the the best the way that I feel it's the best thing I ever done was make that decision when I made it and take my baby out of that situation and just focus on being a good mum.

Hollie 1:13:14

And that's what I was just gonna ask you is if you know, to anyone listening, what is what is the one thing that if you know if you could say anything to anyone listening now in your situation?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

I would say that an abusive relationship is so heavy and and you when you're in it, you feel like you can't get out of it, and that's just you know, and there is it's so confusing, it's so so confusing.

Hollie 1:13:38

But when you step out of it, obviously it doesn't happen day one, no, but over time you're like, wow, like and it never changes, it would never ever change, it'll only get worse. Yeah, thank you so much. Honestly, your story is it's a hard here, but you know, to see you here now, and you know, the things you've done, and you know, the woman that you've become is amazing, so you should be so proud of yourself, and so proud of yourself for coming on and sharing and helping. I hope it's absolutely shed the light. I hope it absolutely will. So, thank you, thank you. So brave. Thank you guys for listening. Um, it's a hard here. I'm gonna put some um relevant um links in the show notes, so there will be ones to non-molestation orders and the Claire's law, and of course, all of the domestic abuse helplines. Um, if you think that anyone you know, whether it's yourself, um you know, please, if there's anyone that you know that it's not yourself, sorry, then please share the podcast. Um, but if you yourself are going through it and you need help, like I said, it will be in the show notes. But please make sure you follow, you subscribe, you like, and if you need any support and we can help at all, then our DMs are always open. Um, but thank you so much. Thank you, and we'll see you in the next episode. Thanks, guys.