That's Just Human
That’s Just Human, a podcast that explores all aspects of being human, living in a body, and dealing with life’s obstacles. We discuss people’s stories, learn practical tools for growth and healing that help you learn to step into your authentic self and aliveness.
That's Just Human
Episode 30: From Prison to Purpose w/Matt Melvin
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The Heart of the Conversation:
In this episode of That’s Just Human, I sit down with Matt Melvin, who shares his extraordinary journey through the American penal system and his subsequent path to finding a unique voice. We discuss his experiences of navigating 10 different institutions over 16 months, the realities of being bullied in prison, and how he used that time as a "boot camp" for spiritual and personal growth.
The transmission we explore:
Prison as a Boot Camp: How Matt transformed a period of incarceration into an opportunity for deep study and mental discipline, finding a sense of purpose behind bars.
The Reality of the System: A candid look at the challenges of the carceral experience, including the dynamics of bullying and the psychological resilience required to emerge intact.
Navigating Complex Identities: An exploration of Matt’s perspective as a gay Christian, and how he bridges seemingly conflicting worlds to find his own truth.
The Power of Open-Mindedness: The importance of building a "tribe" of diverse people who don't always agree, and how civil discourse enriches our lives.
Movement as Medicine: Why physical activity—be it swimming, gardening, or dancing—is a vital tool for overcoming isolation and finding daily joy.
An Invitation from Elisha:
"Sometimes the most profound growth happens in the places we least expect to find it. Matt’s story is a reminder that our circumstances do not have to define our spirit, and that even in the face of immense pressure, we can choose to become something stronger and more refined. If you’ve ever felt like an outsider or struggled to reconcile different parts of your own identity, I invite you to listen to Matt’s journey. This conversation is an invitation to look past labels and see the resilient human heart underneath—and to remember that we are all, in our own way, on a journey toward finding our own version of peace."
Time Stamps:
00:00 Introduction to Matt Melvin
00:18 Background on Autism and Emotions
03:15 Stolen Car and Impulsivity
05:12 Prison as Rehabilitation
05:40 Writing "Bully Behind Bars"
06:24 Discipline in Solitary Confinement
08:24 Religion and Cults in Prison
10:36 Self-Forgiveness and Love
11:19 Incremental Goal Setting
12:30 Accountability Partners
14:14 Mentoring Men’s Groups
15:40 Authenticity vs. "Face Masks"
16:41 Neurodivergence and Hypervigilance
18:17 Micro-Commitments and Habits
19:55 Choosing a Church
21:07 Identity in Conservative Churches
22:55 Human Judgment and Rumors
26:30 Vulnerability in Men’s Weekends
27:01 Struggles of the Wealthy/Status-Driven
28:51 Importance of Communication
35:53 Where to Find Matt’s Work
37:19 Final Wisdom and Physical Activity
Find Matt on the internet:
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Bullied-Behind-Bars-Christian-Supporter-ebook/dp/B09SFKYFCD
Website: https://www.bulliedbehindbars.com/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/Bulliedbehindbars
X: https://www.x.com/Barsbullied
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Matthew.Melvin.5621
Link to Transcript of Show:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TTkNdzmSbfWbIxboFrEjlkATq-UnyTxL/view?usp=sharing
Apply to be on the Show:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdo3jzeiCYLsDQMnfZbar8GlhJOjWGAFLtMlsZI2L8XwZ_IMw/viewform?usp=sharing
Find Elisha Elsewhere on the web:
https://linktr.ee/elishalightangel
Went to ten different institutions, four states, sixteen months in a prison, a month and a half and a halfway house. I used prison as a boot camp for Bible study.
SPEAKER_01Hello and welcome to That's Just Human, a podcast that explores all aspects of being human, living in a human body, and dealing with life's obstacles. I'm your host, Elisha Light Angel, and by day I'm a massage therapist. Right now I'm a podcaster, and like you, I also happen to live in a human body, and I have a plethora of human experiences. This is the space that I like to talk about my own and also explore other people's human experiences and get the entire gamut. So today we have the honor and privilege of bringing you our next guest, Matt Melvin, and he's going to share his story of going to prison and being bullied in prison and all the things that have come about. It's going to be a very fascinating story, I'm sure. And I am quite excited to hear about this. He also has authored a book of his own biography about being a gay Christian Trump supporter. And we're going to hear a little bit more about what that means for him. And please welcome Matt Melvin. Thank you for coming onto my podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me on the show.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So I am really fascinated to get into your life experience and stories and what your journey has brought you so far. So it started out, it sounds like, with some decisions. But before we even get into what you did that got you in jail, what was life like for you at that point in time?
SPEAKER_02When I stole the car?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, like before you even get there, how is how is life? How are you dealing with life? Like, what were your struggles and kind of the processes that you were going through?
SPEAKER_02Well, I have autism. I'm on the Asperger spectrum. And I wasn't dealing with emotions at all. I was stuffing emotions. My family is full of stoics, suck it up buttercup. Men don't show emotions. Real men don't cry. But in reality, I was miserable. I was allowing unresolved anger, hate, resentment to cloud my judgment. And because I was going to therapy and as a because I was told to, and not because I had decided that I needed to work on myself. It was I was spinning tires. I wasn't doing the work I needed to do. When I stole the car back in 2004, the car dealership didn't pay me my commissions, and in a way, I was saying, I'm not gonna be bullied anymore. Because for 35 years I've been bullied non-stop. I did it in the wrong way. Absolutely. However, because again, I hadn't dealt with my emotions properly, my emotions clouded sound judgment.
SPEAKER_01So you stole a car and you were working at a dealership. Um, how did that come about?
SPEAKER_02I was working at Freedom Nissan, Shelburne Road, South Burlington, Vermont. They didn't pay me my commissions. The side effect of autism is the impulsivity. Alicia, I still have impulsivity today. That doesn't go away. Medication, therapy, men's groups, it doesn't matter. That impulsivity still lives with me today. The difference today versus 2004 is I have better tools, I have better friends, I am able to regulate that impulsivity for good rather than bad things.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So this was an impulsive choice back then that you got angry, made the impulsive choice. I feel like a lot of people want to make those impulsive choices. And um, you know, many people hold back, not everybody. So after this, obviously, in you steal a car, people, you know, police, the people you stole it from frown upon it. So they put you in jail. Um, lead us through a little bit of this journey, because it sounds like this has been really kind of a transformation point in your life.
SPEAKER_02The first time I went to prison, I didn't really learn anything. It was more punishment than rehabilitation. Prison is not rehabilitation. The difference the first time versus the second time was I was not doing any work. I was still full of anger and hatred and resentment and didn't love myself. In 2016, when I went to prison the second time, that's when I wrote my book, Bully Behind Bars, a gay Christian Trump supporter goes to prison, went to 10 different institutions, four states, 16 months in a prison, a month and a half and a halfway house. I used prison as a boot camp for Bible study, seminary school boot camp. I went to every single Bible study, went to every single Jehovah's Witness Scientology, Christian Science, and enmeshed myself in the Bible. I spent a lot of time in solitary confinement. The inmates would lie to the guards, tell them I tried to proposition them. I went spent 23 hours a day locked in a cell all by myself. And while the prison might have had my body, they didn't have my mind. I know a lot of people are in a mental health prison, which is worse than a physical prison. And that's where I started my discipline of reading my Bible every day, praying, fasting, eating healthy, and exercising, and one more, making my bed. And all of these disciplines have helped me to become the man I am today. Wait, how did you eat healthy in jail? That's a good question. By being very mindful about what I ate. Just because they put it on my plate didn't mean I ate it.
SPEAKER_01Okay. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_02That was a good idea. I've never been asked that. I've never been asked that. That's a terrific question. Thank you very much for asking that.
SPEAKER_01You're welcome. Well, I just get questions. Um, I've never spent time in prison, but I spent one day in jail and they gave me some bread and peanut butter and something else. And what I didn't eat it. Um, so I know they're not known for loading you up with, you know, vegetables and nice grass-fed beef, and you know, nothing like that.
SPEAKER_02No, what I mean is by watching what I put into my body. Prisons have a lot, spent a lot of time giving inmates hot dogs and brown beans. I stayed clear away from that because that affected my body. It also affected other inmates around me. And it, I didn't want to attract negative attention to myself.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense. So um, you said that you were attending like Christian, Jehovah's Witness, Scientology. Are these all different programs that are offered and available for you in the prison system? Is that how you got started? Or did it start kind of before you ended up there? I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02I wanted to ammesh myself in every single Bible study that was available. Some of these that I had named are cults, and the reason that they are so prevalent in the prisons is because a lot of men, because I was a male prison, are missing love and a father figure in their life, and they think that some kind of institution is going to bring them all the answers to everything that they need, when in fact all they want to do is get all their money and have complete, total control over you. Because when you give up your money and you give up all of your friends, an institution has total control over you and can manipulate you to do things that you otherwise wouldn't do. What does that remind you of? That is exactly how a gang works. No different. They're just this institution is just promising uh love and they're using the Bible. Just because uh an organization uses the Bible doesn't mean that they're any better than a gang. I remember watching a court show, and the judge said, It's astonishing to me how many people have been defendants and they've done crimes in the name of religion. And that always stuck out to me because that is so true. So many people do things in the name of religion, and it's not really religious a religious organization, it's a cult that brainwashes them into doing what they want them to do.
SPEAKER_01I would definitely go with the cult uh aspect, or even some places can be culty without necessarily following all of the rules of being a cult. Um, but that's interesting. So you basically you're not on solitary confinement, but you kind of put yourself in solitary mode and just spent time with the Bible and writing.
SPEAKER_02That's how I processed my life, and I knew I wanted to change. And until I started writing my book and and creating these strong disciplines, that's where I started forgiving myself, loving myself, starting to forgive others and loving others. And if you don't love yourself, you can't love another person.
SPEAKER_01That's um quite a transformation to go through, I think, in prison. So, how I mean, how long were you there this second time? And like in this process, how long was it taking you? And kind of was it just this small little changes each day, or how did you experience that to come to this overall be becoming the person that you wanted to become?
SPEAKER_02Any discipline takes time. I started off reading my Bible for five minutes, then it grew to 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 3540, etc. The discipline, that the exercising that started five minutes and then it grew. Making my bed, that's simple that doesn't take much time. That was always consistent. But in terms of the food, I started off just eating everything that they gave me. And then I noticed that this didn't feel right and it didn't react well with my body, and I wasn't feeling well, and I was attracting that negative attention. So I started cutting back and watching what I ate and trading the beans for something else that another inmate had that I wanted. And these small steps helped me to get to where I wanted to be. Only 3% of the population sets goals, and they're the most successful people.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. That's interesting. I'm a goal setter, but I don't know how to live life without goals.
SPEAKER_02But um, let me speak to a few minutes to goals. Sure. If you want a goal, it has to be measurable. It can't be I want to lose a lot of weight. What is a lot of weight? A lot of weight to me is very different from a lot of weight to somebody else. That's one. So they have to be measurable, they have to be written down and they have to be communicated with somebody to somebody else that's going to hold you accountable. So this person is not your mom, they're not your best friend. This person needs to be somebody that's going to call you out when you say you're going to do something and you don't do it. And that is challenging for a lot of people. If you are a pushover or you are a people pleaser, probably not somebody you want to have as your accountability partner. I would be a great accountability partner. But guess what? I don't really need an accountability partner because I can do this all by myself. But most people, in my opinion, do need an accountability partner.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense. I don't understand the concept of saying you're gonna do something and not doing it because if I say I'm gonna do something, it gets done, like that's otherwise I'm not saying it. That's how that is. But um, yeah, interesting. Carrying on with your story. So you learned these habits and these tools and these skills and practiced them while you're in prison. So I'm assuming you now carry them outside of prison and into life, integrating back into society. Um how does that look for you post-prison and then even now? Because I'm assuming there's been some time and tweaking how you have your habits and rituals and stuff.
SPEAKER_02The habits are still the same. The only difference is now I'm teaching that to other people. And I'm part of several men's groups, and I work with men to try to develop these skills. And it's challenging because you know, a lot of men, because that's who I work with mostly, will use excuses. Women do the same thing. And an excuse is nothing but a lie. So I encourage people to not lie. In the end, who are you hurting? When you lie, you're not hurting me, you're only hurting yourself. I encourage people to find friends and relationships that they can be completely and utterly transparent, honest 110% of the time.
SPEAKER_01We need more of that. People need those people in our lives, and that provides a safety net for us too. Because be you have to feel safe with another person to be able to fully be transparent with them. That lack of safety is when we close up and don't want to share an aspect of ourselves because there's a lot of not so pretty or nice aspects that we all carry inside of us, and we just want people often to see only the good parts of us, and we're very multifaceted.
SPEAKER_02A lot of people put on face masks, absolutely, and I encourage people to not wear face masks, to be the same person they are with me, to their spouse, to in the workforce, because the issue when you wear face masks is you are essentially an actor. You're putting on a performance, and in the end, the only person that hurts is yourself, and it hurts all those relationships that you're trying to develop because I don't know who you are. Who are you? Are you Judy Garland, Jane Fonda? I don't know. Right when I I feel that it makes me want to step back because I don't know who you really are.
SPEAKER_01I would also say because you're on the spectrum, your perception of people is gonna be different than somebody that is neurotypical, and so you're more hyper-vigilant to some of the Well, I am, no question.
SPEAKER_02Very hyper-vigilant, far more than any of my friends that are neurotypical.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that can run people the wrong way. Yeah. I I mean I get that. I have I'm pretty sure most of my friends are somewhere on some kind of spectrum or ADHD, or I just neurospicy. We'll go with that. I am as I'm surrounded by lots of neurospicy individuals. I probably am somewhere on there myself, I don't know. Um, but it's not a part of my identity. I'm just me. And uh similarly, it's um easy to detect when somebody's not being authentic to who they are and they have that mask up. And uh I don't think that everybody catches on to that because they're also wearing a mask and so involved in how they're appearing to everyone instead of just being whoever it is they are and allowing that to come through.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, 100% agree with that.
SPEAKER_01I I too would encourage people to just step into themselves and drop that, and then we can connect with one another. But it also comes with having more compassion and empathy for other people as well, and that's a practice for a mass majority. Um, because when we're in our feelings, we're not feeling compassionate or empathetic in those moments, and it does take a practice to understand that from that standpoint.
SPEAKER_02Everything takes practice, and I encourage everybody to start off small, make a small commitment and fulfill that commitment, and then build from there, you know. Just like when you're going up a staircase, you start off with one and then you go to two, three, four, five. But don't try to climb Mount Everest if you haven't even climbed Camel's Hump is a mountain here.
SPEAKER_01Well, just like you were saying, when you're in prison, you started with five minutes. It, you know, even though you're in there for hours by yourself and you have all this time, that five minutes felt like a step that you had to take in that moment. And then it built from there. So whatever the task is or the new step, I like to say little baby steps that people can take. You know, you're stair-stepping, you know, one micro change that we can commit to until it becomes a habit. And it might be you drink an extra eight ounces of water in a day, and that's it. I mean, it's a real that's a micro commitment. It's not anything big, it's something that you can add in. And some people hate water. So adding eight ounces of water for them is a big deal. Uh so it's wherever we are having those little baby steps to come into this transformation. So I'm curious, too, going back to your story now. Um, you get out of prison, did you search for a church at this point or somewhere to belong to, or did you kind of stick to your own, like your own process with you and God?
SPEAKER_02I found a couple of churches. I came and went. I I think if you're looking for a church, you need to interview them. You need to look at several. Don't just be content with the first one you find. Talk to parishioners, see what other activities they have going on. It's all about the fellowship. The fellowship is, in my opinion, what makes or breaks a church. I found a church in New Hampshire that was all Bible study. And I was the youngest one that was a part of the group. And I loved it. It was great because I didn't want the coffee. I I didn't need the other activities to fulfill what I was looking for. I wanted just Bible study.
SPEAKER_01So I'm curious because you are gay and um there are progressive Christian churches that do have open arms for anybody, but then there's a lot that still are not. So, what has been your experience trying to find a group of people that maybe fits on that more progressive spectrum and entering church and how you how have you been received with that being you?
SPEAKER_02I've never set foot in any progressive church. It's not for me, it's not who I am. I prefer the conservative churches, and I just we don't talk about the sexual preference. To me, that's none of their business. That's how I've lived my life. What other people think of me is none of my business.
SPEAKER_01So they just open arms and don't know. I mean, I'm just um there's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02They know, but we we just don't discuss it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I have to do that. So it's kind of swept under the rug.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I'm curious, why is that a preferred way than maybe finding somebody that is more progressive and says, you know what, I really do believe that God made you in his image as he did all of us, and would open like really welcome that with open arms with complete no judgment.
SPEAKER_02There's always Judgment in any institution you go to. That's the reality. People always have judgment. And I don't really care what other people think of me. I'm there to serve God. And I know who I am. And it's not for me a networking event. It's, you know, a place that I can experience God and fellowship with Him. And today I'm doing my own thing because I went to a lot of different institutions and was judged. And I'm doing my own thing. I watch sermons online. I'm in my Bible every day. I do men's groups online. And that to me is much more freeing than when you mentioned I was going to this church and you know we were putting things under the rug.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And people weren't authentic and weren't genuine. And that just got tiresome for me.
SPEAKER_01I think um, I think there's a lot of that in a lot of different churches. Like the judgment, even though um God says not to judge, we as humans, it it is a very human thing to want to judge somebody else, I think. I I think it just kind of in the core of our being. And so to work on being non-judgmental is something that you have to do a lot more consciously, not that people do. So many people have the experience that they step into a church and they're um feeling, we'll say, love bombed when they first go in. Everybody's very open, like gracious, they're there, they want them to come in. And then once some of who they are starts to leak out, they start receiving backlash or the rumors, the rumor meal starts going, people are talking behind their back, or I mean there there's always something similar to that that tends to push people outside of that church. And then often what I find is people come into doing their own thing. So whether it's their own time with reading the Bible or their the way that they view their relationship with God, which I think is is personal, and that none of us are gonna have the exact same relationship or the exact same viewpoints. But if we have that feeling, regardless, and then try not to judge somebody else, because you know, what what is it my business, what your relationship with God is, and what is it your business what my relationship with God is? But we're human and we both have emotions and we both live like all of these different human elements that come into play, and those are the touch points, and we still share the same earth, we still share the breathe the same air, like we're sharing all of this regardless.
SPEAKER_02I believe that if people worried more about themselves than other people, this world would be a completely different world. And I sometimes feel like I live in a I live in Earth and other people live in some kind of fantasy land.
SPEAKER_01I mean, maybe. I think we all have um interesting viewpoints sometimes. But coming back to our true authentic self, do you have a way when you're working with men that helps them tap in to um to that authenticity to get rid of the lies that they're telling themselves and then therefore telling the people around them?
SPEAKER_02What is holding you back from living in authenticity? That would be one question. Who who are you who what by putting on a fat face mask, how is that service? How is that serving you? If you were to live in true authenticity, how would that look? What is stopping you from doing this today?
SPEAKER_01Those are all good questions. So do you have to be a good thing?
SPEAKER_02I ask a lot of difficult questions. I can ask questions till I'm blue in the face. If somebody's and then the next question is, are you willing to make these changes? If they say no, might as well just move on.
SPEAKER_01So are you working with men one-on-one, or do you have like men's groups where you kind of help be a support system to one another and open up in this way to becoming authentic and growing?
SPEAKER_02I am part of several men's groups. I also staff several men's weekends where men can come and be vulnerable. That's where I really started making my changes is going to a men's weekend, giving up my cell phone, not knowing the agenda, not knowing what time it is, being in a bunkhouse, having limited food, and being able to have a journal, and when I'm told that we're gonna be in essential silence, we're in essential silence. The men that struggle the most were those that have had everything handed to them, if I'm to be completely transparent. Millionaires, billionaires, wealthy people who really don't have anything, who are used to being telling other people what to do, those are the men that struggle the most. Or the men that were used to dictating to other people, whether it's their spouse, their kids, whoever, they come and they may be a business owner, used to telling people what they're gonna do, when they're gonna do it, those are the people that struggle the most. And three, people that had other people pay for them to be there. You have to have skin in the game, otherwise, you're not gonna get anything out of it. And just like everything in life, what you put into it is what you get out. If you do the homework assignment, if you are on time, if you bring your food item, all of these are how you show up in life. When you are late, you are saying to everybody else, I'm more important than you, and you can just you can wait. That is not a good way. Whether, even if you're the president of the United States, that's not a way you should live. You should live that you are just as important as everybody else. There's nobody in the room that's more important than anybody else. Whether it's the guy that's the facilitator or whether it's the guy that's cooking the meals. Nobody's more important than anybody else.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, where do you lean into the compassionate part that sometimes life just happens? Like maybe that person was gonna be 15 minutes early, but then they got a speeding ticket or a flat tire, or somehow you just hit every single red light on the road and you were gonna be early.
SPEAKER_02Great question. Do they communicate? Do they let us know, or do they just are they non-communicative? So if that person is communicating with the leader and let us know, no problem. We'll we'll process it. We'll process it. But we're not gonna be as hard on somebody that communicated with us and let us know that they were gonna be late, versus somebody that just wait makes us wait for two, three hours. Because every all all not only are all the staff men are waiting for you, but all the participants are waiting for you. And how would you feel if you have to wait two or three hours for somebody else? I'm sure you know somebody in your life that you've had to wait for an extremely long amount of time. And how did you feel?
SPEAKER_01I just go about doing my things. Well, first I'm gonna message them that they're late and let them know how I feel because I am a little blunt. And um and then I'm gonna find something else to do, but I'm not gonna wait hours. Like I might be a little peeved at you unless there's a good reason.
SPEAKER_02You know, that's a good question, but we're all at a at a at an area, we're all at a camp. So that's the big difference. We're not just at a hotel, we're at a camp, usually in the mountains, and we are holding the staff, are holding space for you, the participants are holding space for you, and we can't continue with our schedule until everybody's there.
SPEAKER_01Right. I can definitely see how some people might have um an important uh what is it, superiority.
SPEAKER_02Complex. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I was trying to think of the word, and that could be a thing. I really like that you're having men's groups. Um, when I started my own spiritual awakening back in 2011, I came into some goddess groups. So it was like all of us women constantly getting together, feeding each other's souls spiritually, holding, um, yeah, having the accountability, supporting others in life with whatever our endeavors are, you know. And it was this really beautiful thing that helped all of us grow. And we're, you know, we all have partners and different men in our life, and none of them were having groups or anything. And we're like, we need for men to like we need leaders, like men leaders who are willing to be vulnerable to talk about feelings and to create these spaces specifically for men. And I see more of these groups popping up now in like 2025, 2026. I'm hearing more about them. And I I think it's a really beautiful thing that's happening because as you grew up hearing that like men need to stuff their emotions down, it's this toxic mindset that infiltrates all of society. And it's not just you, like so many men got this growing up that they shouldn't feel their emotions or or have them, that they needed to be strong or needed to provide or needed to do this, and it puts a pressure that internally you may not feel you can even live up to, but now you have to, because this is what you were told from the time you were born that you're supposed to be fitting into this box. And women want men to just share their emotions with them, and it's hard because you've been told your whole life that you shouldn't be this way, like you need to be strong for um for your other person, like not take this on. So I'm really glad that you're out there providing a space for men to open up in this way and this capacity. I I think coming to our hearts more, not just men, women, we all just need to come into our hearts more. It's how we feel into each other.
SPEAKER_02And you can't rely on your spouse to be your only source of comfort. If you're a man, you need men. If you're a woman, you need women. Period. End of story.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think that we have a lot of, again, it's like toxic ideas about what it is, but I think a healthy relationship is having relationships outside of that main one that feed your um likes, interests, and nurture you in different ways. And those are all really important to have. And it makes you more of an interesting person to your partner when you come back with something new or different perspective, refreshed, and then you come together and you get to share these other experiences that you had with other people. I think that's a healthier way to relate to somebody.
SPEAKER_02And I want friends in my life that are working on themselves. I refuse to have friendships with men and or women that think that they have everything figured out because I don't have everything figured out. And when I staff these weekends, it I even though I'm not sharing my personal journey, because that's not what the space is for, it's for the participants to share their journey. I can see common things, and then as we're getting closer to the end, I can touch base with somebody. Hey, that really was part of my story. Can I share a little bit more about it? And that's how we find common ground.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I love that. Finding common ground. We always have lots of differences, but we also always have that common ground. Well, we're um getting closer to the end of our time together. Is there anything that I might have forgotten to ask you and you wanted to share about your journey?
SPEAKER_02My journey is no different than a lot of people. While you may have not set in prison, you may be in a mental health prison. And I encourage you to find, look at different churches, look at different groups, and not just settle for the first one you find. Be open-minded, ask questions. That is absolutely critical. Ask questions, network with people and be okay with not knowing all the answers. I don't know all the answers. I'm always asking questions. When I stop asking questions, I know immediately I'm not doing my job.
SPEAKER_01That's beautiful. Well, I'm glad we came to common ground today because I know we don't see eye to eye on everything, but I love I love that um we do share some similar values in life and bringing people together. And that's that's what it's all about is finding that commonality and that human thread between us. So I have one last uh or no, first, where can people find you and um about your book? On the internet.
SPEAKER_02My book, Bullied Behind Bars, a gay Christian Trump supporter goes to prison, is available on Amazon. You can follow me on Instagram, ideally, because you can also find my poems, Bullied Behind Bars, X bars bullied, Facebook Matthew.melvin.5621. Email me, bulliedbehindbars at gmail.com, and of course my website, www.bulliedbehindbars.com. Reach out to me. I'm happy to help you in any capacity I can. I know a lot of different groups. Maybe I can steer you in the right direction. The more direct you are with me about what you're looking for, the more I can help you. So don't just send me one sentence because then I'll have more questions. Give me at least some of your experience, where you live. Are you looking for in-person or Zoom meetings? What has been your experience so far? If it's not working, why is it not working for you? The more you can give me, the more I can help.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. I will put those links into the show notes so that you can go and click on something if you do want to connect with him. And one last question. If you have one bit of wisdom or advice just anywhere from your life, can be something we touched on today, just something that randomly comes to you. For the listeners, what would that bit of wisdom be?
SPEAKER_02Engage in activities where you can move your body. Swimming, dancing, cooking, gardening. These are all great activities to do. Try to remove isolating activities. Watching TV, reading by yourself, video games. These won't bring you joy. Try to find the joy. And I love I'm an ocean swimmer. I love going way out far in the ocean. It's just me. And and whatever's underneath me, I'm fearless. So I don't worry about it. And and talk, find a good tribe of men and women that can build you up and that are open-minded to different ideas. I have friends from all walks of life. We don't agree on everything. And that's okay. I don't want it to find a person in my life that agrees with me wholeheartedly about everything because that would be very, very boring.
SPEAKER_01I agree. Well, thank you. That was uh great advice. Move your body. I I concur. Move your body. Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing some of your story and what you do and how you help others in this world and share who you are.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much. Have a great afternoon.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. If you're out there listening and this was touching to you, you know somebody that might like to hear it, please share. And you can leave me reviews on Apple iTunes, you can leave five stars on Spotify, you can hop over to YouTube if you're listening, you can see our faces, and you can like, subscribe, comment, all of those things help get my podcast out into the world and share more human experiences. As you embrace your humanness, be kind, be you, and remember everything is part of the journey.