Lead With Influence
Lead with Influence is about influencing positive change — in yourself, your relationships, and your leadership. Hosted by executive coach Matt Norman, each episode distills insights from decades of experience helping people communicate with impact, lead with humility, and build trust across differences. These short, thoughtful reflections will help you grow in self-awareness, develop emotional intelligence, and show up more powerfully in your work and life.
Lead With Influence
The Inner Game of the Stage
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Nervousness before a big moment isn't weakness. It's biology. And learning to work with it changes everything.
In this episode, we break down Matt Norman's approach to managing performance anxiety, whether you're stepping onto a stage, leading a high-stakes meeting, or navigating any situation where the pressure is on. We explore why your body treats a presentation like a physical threat, how gradual exposure rewires your response over time, and why shifting your focus from self-preservation to serving your audience is the real unlock.
If you've ever felt your heart race before speaking up, this one's for you.
Read the full article at mattnorman.com.
Your brain is, well, it's an incredibly advanced piece of biological machinery. I mean, it can solve complex calculus, it can compose symphonies and send rovers to Mars.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Right. But despite all of that evolutionary processing power, it has one massive glaring flaw.
SPEAKER_00And it's a big one.
SPEAKER_01It really is. It literally cannot tell the difference between a grizzly bear charging at you in the woods and uh unmuting your microphone to speak up on a crowded Zoom call.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01Your body physically reacts to both of those scenarios in the exact same way.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell It is such a remarkable biological glitch. That intense physical wave of panic before stepping into any kind of spotlight, it's just deeply ingrained in us.
SPEAKER_01It really is.
SPEAKER_00And the real tragedy of that glitch is that for so many people, that terrible feeling is exactly what keeps them from ever trying out. You know, it keeps them from speaking up or taking the opportunity in the first place.
SPEAKER_01Which is the core focus of today's deep dive. We are looking at a highly practical article from Matt Norman.
SPEAKER_00Yes, from May 19, 2026.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. It's titled The Inner Game of the Stage. And we're going to look at the exact mechanics of performers' anxiety, how it manipulates our biology, and you know, more importantly, how we can practically disarm it.
SPEAKER_00Because we have to disarm it.
SPEAKER_01We do. Okay, let's unpack this. Because understanding how to manage this specific brand of panic is well, it's not just a nice-to-have skill for theater actors or touring musicians.
SPEAKER_00No, not at all.
SPEAKER_01It is fundamental to your professional survival.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell, you really just cannot escape it if you want to grow. I mean, if you have any ambition to lead, to move people, or to influence others in any capacity, you are eventually going to have to step onto a stage. Right. But that fear of visibility is a massive barrier. Yeah. It silences great ideas and it sidelines highly capable people who simply do not want to endure the physical discomfort of, you know, being looked at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, being in the spotlight is terrifying. But before we can solve the panic, we have to understand exactly what is happening in our bodies when that spotlight hits. We have to look under the hood. Norman starts his piece with a very grounded, relatable story. It's about his son, who is gearing up for his first and final high school guitar and vocal solo.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the pressure of high school solos.
SPEAKER_01Right. The stakes for this kid feel astronomical. He's facing three nights playing in front of hundreds of people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he's just consumed by this gnawing worry of embarrassment, of totally messing up.
SPEAKER_00Well, and what Norman highlights through that story is that this anxiety is not just a passing mood, right? It's not just a mental state.
SPEAKER_01What is it then?
SPEAKER_00It's a profound cascading biological event. So when you anticipate stepping onto that stage, your brain perceives a threat to your social standing.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00But evolutionarily speaking, being cast out of the social tribe used to mean literal death in the wilderness.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So your brain doesn't differentiate. It triggers the fight or flight response. Your body receives a massive, sudden dump of adrenaline and epinephrine.
SPEAKER_01But wait, let me stop you there. Isn't a little adrenaline actually a good thing for performance?
SPEAKER_00What do you mean by the way?
SPEAKER_01Well, athletes talk about getting hyped up all the time. Doesn't that rush of energy keep you sharp and focused?
SPEAKER_00Ah, yeah, it is the ultimate double-edged sword. Okay. You are completely right that a certain threshold of adrenaline creates focus and energy. It wakes up your senses.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But the system is very delicate.
SPEAKER_01So what happens when there's too much?
SPEAKER_00When the perceived threat is too high, the system overloads. And too much adrenaline causes paralyzing physical tension.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Norman uses an incredibly vivid analogy for this. He says this massive physiological dump of adrenaline and epinephrine is a highly effective, sophisticated self-protection measure.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00If you were fighting a bear in the woods.
SPEAKER_01Because if a bear is charging you, your body's only priority is gross motor movement. You want all the blood rushing away from your extremities, right? Exactly. Straight into your major muscle groups, your thighs, your chest, your back, so you can run or fight. You want your heart rate maxed out.
SPEAKER_00Precisely. But that exact same biological response is entirely unhelpful when you were trying to execute fine motor skills.
SPEAKER_01Like playing a guitar.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Like hitting specific, delicate, high vocal notes or moving your fingers rapidly across the narrow frets of a guitar.
SPEAKER_01Because the blood has literally left your fingers.
SPEAKER_00Yes. The biology that evolved to keep you alive in a life or death scenario is actively working against you when you need precision and control.
SPEAKER_01So it is the bear versus the guitar?
SPEAKER_00That's it.
SPEAKER_01Our bodies are gearing up for Mortal Kombat when we just need to sing a song, or, you know, more likely for you listening to this, deliver a quarterly report.
SPEAKER_00Which brings up a really crucial point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We need to redefine what a stage actually is.
SPEAKER_01Right, because most of us aren't playing high school guitar solos.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. But we face that exact same biological response in the office every single week. A stage is rarely a raised platform with a spotlight.
SPEAKER_01If we connect this to the bigger picture, oh wait, actually, what is a stage in the corporate world?
SPEAKER_00Well, if we connect this to the bigger picture, a stage is simply any moment of high stakes visibility.
SPEAKER_01Like pitching to the executive board.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Pitching a new project to an unsmiling board. Or delivering a really difficult performance review.
SPEAKER_01Oh, those are the worst.
SPEAKER_00They are. Or simply, you know, speaking up in a crowded meeting to offer a dissenting opinion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that sudden rush of panic when you go to unmute yourself.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And the real danger of that fight or flight response on those everyday corporate stages isn't just that your voice might shake.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Norman argues the real danger is the psychological trap it forces you into. It causes an extreme, almost absolute inward focus.
SPEAKER_01Inward focus, meaning you're only thinking about yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yes. That inward focus is the enemy of connection. When your brain is convinced you are under attack by a predator, its only priority is self-preservation.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00So your entire field of awareness shrinks down to yourself. In a boardroom, that internal monologue becomes completely consuming.
SPEAKER_01You're sitting there thinking, like, how do I look right now? Or did I stumble over that word?
SPEAKER_00What is the boss thinking of my slide? Exactly. You are hyper-obsessed with your own survival.
SPEAKER_01So if my brain thinks I'm fighting a bear, I just don't have the processing power left to care about the people sitting across the table from me.
SPEAKER_00And that is the exact leadership cost Norman is warning about. You cannot make a true connection with your audience if you are trapped in self-preservation.
SPEAKER_01It's impossible.
SPEAKER_00Right. Norman talks about accumulating relationship capital. And he speaks very clearly. You simply cannot accumulate relationship capital when you are entirely focused on yourself.
SPEAKER_01Let's make that concrete. So if I'm giving a pitch and I'm totally inwardly focused on my own survival, I might completely miss the fact that the client across the table just crossed their arms and furrowed their brow.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01I'm so worried about reciting my next bullet point perfectly that I don't pause to ask them if they have a concern. I just plow right through.
SPEAKER_00And you lose the client because you miss the nonverbal cue.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's a perfect example. Leadership is built on trust, empathy, and mutual understanding. All of those require an outward focus.
SPEAKER_01So if you're silently panicking about your own performance, you've severed the connection.
SPEAKER_00You're effectively alone in the room fighting the imaginary bear.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so that is the biological trap and the very steep professional cost. If inward focus is the enemy, how do we stop it before we even step up to speak?
SPEAKER_00Well, Norman lays out a clear progression of strategies, and it starts with how we prepare long before the spotlight hits.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00He advocates for progressive exposure.
SPEAKER_01Progressive exposure, like building up an immunity.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It's deeply rooted in behavioral psychology. Norman compares it to progressive overload in weight training.
SPEAKER_01Okay. How so?
SPEAKER_00Well, if you want to get stronger, you don't walk into the gym on day one and try to bench press 500 pounds.
SPEAKER_01No, you crush yourself.
SPEAKER_00You'd get injured. Yeah. You start small with a weight you can handle, and you slowly add resistance over time.
SPEAKER_01I hear that, but I have to push back a little here.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_01If I am someone who is absolutely terrified of public speaking, the standard advice is often, you know, just volunteer to lead the weekly team huddle.
SPEAKER_00Right, which is terrible advice.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Because to someone with severe anxiety, leading a huddle feels like a 500-pound weight. It's like telling an arachnophobe to just hold a tarantula to get over their fear.
SPEAKER_00It's way too much, way too fast.
SPEAKER_01So how small of a step are we actually talking about for day one?
SPEAKER_00That's a great challenge. And it requires us to scale the exposure way, way back.
SPEAKER_01Like what?
SPEAKER_00If leading a huddle is too much, progressive exposure might look like simply turning your camera on during a remote meeting where you usually hide behind the black screen.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Just the camera.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Or it might mean typing a question into the chat box one week and then challenging yourself to verbally ask a single pre-written question the next week.
SPEAKER_01So it's about finding the smallest possible dose of visibility.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Something that makes you slightly uncomfortable, but not panicked.
SPEAKER_01It's almost like giving yourself micro doses of visibility. So the brain stops treating it as like a lethal allergy.
SPEAKER_00Precisely. By intentionally embracing these smaller speaking opportunities, you are literally retraining your amygdala, the fear center of the brain.
SPEAKER_01You're giving it proof that you won't die.
SPEAKER_00Yes. You are providing empirical evidence that being seen does not result in death. And you slowly reduce the intensity of the fight or flight response.
SPEAKER_01Okay. That makes a lot of sense. But eventually, we do have to face the high stakes crowd. We have to prepare the actual material.
SPEAKER_00We do. And this is where strategy too comes in. Structured preparation.
SPEAKER_01And Norman issues a very strong warning here against rigid memorization.
SPEAKER_00He really does.
SPEAKER_01Which goes against almost everything we're taught in school, right? In school, you write a speech, you memorize every single word, and you recite it.
SPEAKER_00It is the most common trap because it creates a false sense of security. When we're terrified, we crave control.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we think a script is a safety net.
SPEAKER_00But it's not.
SPEAKER_01No, if the article uses this great house of cards analogy, if you rigidly memorize a script and you drop just one single word, the whole house of cards collapses.
SPEAKER_00It's so true. Rote memorization creates an incredibly brittle performance.
SPEAKER_01Because if the structure breaks, there's no recovery.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So the better way, the more resilient approach is what Norman calls structured preparation. You don't memorize the script, you understand the flow.
SPEAKER_01What does that look like practically?
SPEAKER_00It means knowing your general approach ahead of time, you know your core argument, you know the specific concerns of your audience, and you know the main landmarks you need to hit.
SPEAKER_01So you're not obsessing over exact phrasing.
SPEAKER_00Right. When you know the terrain rather than the exact words, you can naturally relax into the narrative.
SPEAKER_01Because if you get sidetracked by a detour or someone asks a question, you can just navigate back.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It gives you the flexibility to actually be a human being in the room rather than just reading a teleprompter.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So we've microdosed our exposure over time and we're using structured preparation instead of a brittle house of cards. Right. But let's be real. Preparation is essential. But what do we do when the moment actually arrives? We're standing at the podium and the adrenaline suddenly floods our system anyway.
SPEAKER_00The bear is in the room.
SPEAKER_01The bear is in the room. What do we do in that exact moment of panic?
SPEAKER_00That is the moment of truth. In the moment, mental and physical triage becomes absolutely necessary.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And the first line of defense is cognitive reframing.
SPEAKER_01Cognitive reframing.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it involves a psychological concept called metacognition.
SPEAKER_01Which is thinking about your thinking. Right. Exactly. Here's where it gets really interesting. Because Norman points out that the fastest way to reduce stage fright in the moment is to shift your focus outward. Yes. You have to remind yourself that the interaction is about serving them, the audience. It is not about protecting you.
SPEAKER_00What's fascinating here is how active this process has to be. You can't just passively hope the anxiety fades. You have to fight it. Metacognition requires you to catch catastrophic thoughts in real time. When your brain says, I'm going to completely ruin my career with this slide, you have to actively replace that with affirming truths.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I have to play devil's advocate again here.
SPEAKER_00Go for it.
SPEAKER_01Because affirming truths can sometimes sound a lot like, you know, toxic positivity. If I am standing there fleckly shaking, telling myself I'm a powerful champion of industry, well, it feels like a complete lie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, your brain knows you're faking it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. How does this differ from just pasting on a fake smile?
SPEAKER_00It is a crucial distinction. Toxic positivity is about denying reality. Cognitive reframing is about grounding yourself in objective facts.
SPEAKER_01Objective facts.
SPEAKER_00Yes. You use them to override a malfunctioning alarm system. Your affirming truths shouldn't be delusional hype.
SPEAKER_01Give me an example.
SPEAKER_00An unarguable data point. You remind yourself I was invited to speak because I did the research. I understand this data. I am objectively capable.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And perhaps the most vital grounding fact is my inherent worth as a human being is not tied to a flawless corporate performance.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I without that.
SPEAKER_00You're using logic to actively short circuit the brain's illogical panic signals.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I see the difference. You aren't pretending the fear isn't there. You're just refusing to let the fear dictate the facts. Exactly. But I mean, logic usually goes out the window when my brain is in full panic mode. How do I force my body to listen to these facts if my physical hardware is malfunctioning, my heart is still pounding?
SPEAKER_00And that transition from the mental to the physical is exactly why cognitive reframing must be paired with nervous system regulation.
SPEAKER_01Nervous system regulation.
SPEAKER_00Yes. You have a physiological need to signal to your body that you are safe, that the bear is gone.
SPEAKER_01And how do we do that?
SPEAKER_00The most direct access point to your autonomic nervous system is your breath. Specifically, the slow, extended exhale.
SPEAKER_01I've always heard take a deep breath when you're nervous, but Norman really emphasizes the exhale. Why is the exhale the secret weapon?
SPEAKER_00It comes down to the vagus nerve.
SPEAKER_01The vagus nerve.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It runs from your brainstem down through your neck and into your chest and abdomen. When you inhale quickly, you're signaling arousal.
SPEAKER_01Like a gasp.
SPEAKER_00Right. But when you take a slow, extended exhale-like utilizing box breathing or breathing out through a tiny straw, your diaphragm massages that vagus nerve. And that physical stimulation triggers the nerve to release a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine.
SPEAKER_01Okay, science time. What does acetylcholine do?
SPEAKER_00It acts as a literal chemical brake pedal on your heart. It chemically forces your heart muscle to slow down.
SPEAKER_01So you are essentially hacking your own nervous system to force a state of calm.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01And Norman pairs that breathing with a very specific practical technique that I found fascinating: the loose face, loose lips method.
SPEAKER_00Yes, managing physical tension. It's the other half of that equation.
SPEAKER_01Because when we go into fight or flight, our default instinct is to clench, right? We lock our jaws, we tense our shoulders.
SPEAKER_00We tighten our necks, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And if your jaw and neck are tight, your vocal cords are physically constricted, your voice comes out thin or shaky.
SPEAKER_00And there is nothing worse than hearing your own voice trumble.
SPEAKER_01It's the worst. Because it instantly validates your fear. You hear yourself sound panic, so you panic more.
SPEAKER_00It's a horrific feedback loop. But by consciously practicing the loose face, loose lips cue right before you speak, you actively interrupt that tension.
SPEAKER_01You deliberately drop your jaw, soften your mouth. Let your facial muscles go slack.
SPEAKER_00This physically opens up your airway. It sounds trivial, but a relaxed jaw creates a strong, steady voice.
SPEAKER_01And when your brain hears that steady voice, it reinforces the physical safety signal.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Okay, this raises an important question, though. We've covered the biology, the long-term preparation, the immediate triage.
SPEAKER_00We know how to survive the moment.
SPEAKER_01But Norman takes this a step further. He argues that navigating the sphere doesn't just make you a better speaker, it actually makes you a profoundly better leader in the long run.
SPEAKER_00This is, without a doubt, the most transformative insight in the entire article. He calls it reframing the journey.
SPEAKER_01Reframing the journey.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Norman challenges us to stop viewing performance anxiety as like a shameful weakness that needs to be permanently eradicated.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Instead, he argues that this struggle with anxiety isn't just a limitation, it's a bridge.
SPEAKER_01A bridge to empathy.
SPEAKER_00Precisely. When you intimately know the feeling of a pounding heart and a dry mouth, when you've had to battle catastrophic thoughts just to give a status update.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you get it.
SPEAKER_00It permanently changes how you view the people you lead. Navigating your own anxiety gives you a profound visceral empathy for the fears and struggles of others.
SPEAKER_01So it's not a weakness, it's almost like a superpower for managing people.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Imagine a senior manager who used to be terrified of public speaking. They're watching a junior developer struggle to present to the board.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Because that manager knows the bear is in the room with that junior employee. They don't judge them as incompetent.
SPEAKER_01They recognize the biological glitch.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So the manager pauses, throws them a softball question, and gives them a graceful off-ramp to catch their breath.
SPEAKER_01And that kind of empathetic intervention builds immense loyalty.
SPEAKER_00It really does. That shared humanity becomes a vital source of relatability in your leadership. People don't want a robotic leader.
SPEAKER_01No, they want a human being who understands fear and has learned to work with it.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01So what does this all mean? We have journeyed through the inner game of the stage. We started with that terrifying moment right before the doors open and unpacked the ancient bear fighting biology that causes it. Right. We learned the true danger isn't a shakely voice, but that extreme inward focus that completely severs our connection to the audience.
SPEAKER_00And we walked through a comprehensive toolkit. We looked at retraining the brain through progressive exposure.
SPEAKER_01Replacing the rigid house of cards with structured preparation.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01We learned how to actively fight catastrophic thoughts with objective facts through cognitive reframing.
SPEAKER_00And how to hack our heart rate with extended exhales and the loose face, loose lips method.
SPEAKER_01And finally, we realized that enduring the struggle is exactly what builds the empathy necessary for true leadership.
SPEAKER_00Now Norman makes it clear there is no single magic bullet here.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00You can't just do a few minutes of box breathing and expect decades of anxiety to vanish. But taken in combination, these five strategies unlock what he calls a relaxed focus.
SPEAKER_01Relaxed focus.
SPEAKER_00Yes. It's a state where you have enough energy to be dynamic, but enough calm to be truly present. It allows you to actually connect.
SPEAKER_01And Norman leaves us with a final challenge that completely flips the script.
SPEAKER_00He really does.
SPEAKER_01The goal isn't just to grit your teeth and survive your next speaking opportunity. The goal is to actively seek it out with a new mindset.
SPEAKER_00Because if the stage is where true leadership happens, you can't wait for it to come to you.
SPEAKER_01You have to find yours. So the final thought to mull over as you go about your day is this What stage do you need to step onto this week?
SPEAKER_00Where do you need to intentionally make yourself visible?
SPEAKER_01Think about that set of double doors from the beginning of our deep dive. The next time you stand outside them, your heart might still pound a bit.
SPEAKER_00Your palms might sweat.
SPEAKER_01The adrenaline will still be there. But this time, you know the bear isn't real. You have the tools to hack your nervous system, open the doors, and make a real connection. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us on this deep dive into Matt Norman's work. Keep asking the hard questions, keep leaning into those uncomfortable moments of growth, and keep sharing the knowledge you discover. We will catch you next time.