More Horse and Rider Health with Dr Kristin Mowry, DPT

Dr. Allison Marshall and her brilliant and amazing friend Dr. Kristin Mowry discuss more health topic for both horse and rider, including good exercises, being cognizant of the horse-rider connection for the optimization of performance, and of course, sour dough bread and her new cookbook.  Enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Good morning, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

This is Dr. Allison Faber Marshall. We are back with another episode of the Full Circle Equine Wellness Podcast, but we are also back with another episode of Dr. Kristen Maury. We left off last time having talked a lot about nutrition. And when we stopped the podcast, Dr. Maury and I both said we had a lot more to talk about. So we have her back on the audio today to talk about a lot of really cool things about fascia and pelvis um needs and rider posture and exercises for riders and all kinds of fun stuff. And before we get started, just to remind anybody who's new, um I am an equine veterinarian in Richmond, Virginia, and my practice has been limited to chiropractic and Chinese medicine for the last 20 years, which is hard for me to believe that I'm even that old. I have been searching out different ways of caring for myself, other than mainstream medicine, and caring for our horses, and trying to introduce uh some really great options to raise the level of health for horses and people. So I'm really happy to um reintroduce my friend, uh, my dear friend, Dr. Kristen Maury. Welcome back. Thank you so much, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Allison. Um, everyone, my name is Dr. Kristen Mori. I have had a practice called the Healing and Wellness Center for over 20 years. I am a lifelong equestrian and I currently reside in Maryland near Annapolis, and I have a just kind of like a smathering of animal rescues here on my farm. I have two sons and a lovely husband. And uh I am honored to be a part of this podcast because it makes us all think and really get outside of the box on our horsemanship and um our equine relationships and um also just considering our own health. So here we go, Dr. Allison, for horses and fascia and and compassionate horsemanship, should I say?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Absolutely. Um one of the things that I'd love for you to talk about that I really wanted to cover in our last podcast is that you have an absolutely beautiful cookbook out that you spent a lot of time on. And I read over it again um after our last podcast. And it just has so much of the great information that you and I are talking about and beautiful photos. And I'm gonna go make my simmer pot this afternoon that you recommend in there. I'm not shamelessly plugging this, but I think that a lot of our listeners would be really interested in having a health supportive um reference like that. So if you don't mind just talking a little bit about that and then maybe a little bit about your soiree into healthy minerals that we've talked about lately.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Absolutely. Um, so this past November, uh, my patients uh had been really on me uh all of last year, 2025, begging me to put out a cookbook. And so I diligently got up early every morning and um, you know, worked late into the evenings because I had this um, you know, big yellow envelope from years of just compiling recipes and different little health nuggets that I wanted to include in a cookbook. So this cookbook is completely and entirely gluten and dairy-free, with of course the exception of the sourdough guide that is in the back, because I find that so many people who don't tolerate modern wheat in America, I will say, uh, can tolerate fermented wheat that is organic. And the fermentation process, especially with a long cold proof, really breaks down the components of gluten that are irritating in the gut. So I do have a sourdough guide in the back. There's health wisdom throughout.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Um I narrated the entire so much health wisdom per out throughout. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I love it so much. And I tried so many different brands that are indeed gluten and dairy free uh throughout the last 18 years. Um, I was gluten and dairy-free before it was popular. And that was because uh when I had my first son, he was indeed gluten and dairy intolerant as a baby. So nursing him, he was refluxy or colicky. And I wanted to get to the bottom of that. My pediatrician had offered reflux medication for my five-month-old, and I thought there's got to be a better way. So I did an elimination diet, but what that looked like for me was eating strictly brown rice for three days, and he had no trouble with my breast milk. So that led me to believe that there was something in my diet that I was passing through my milk. And this is an important big picture here for equine and human nutrition, is that um indeed what we eat is what we produce and what we become. And so um, I I had really not known what gluten was or dairy was, but I had read little nuggets about it. And so I decided that I would stop um those foods, and indeed his GI tract healed. Um, our family has been gluten and dairy free for 18 years, and um we have no struggle with that because we eat whole foods. And so when you, if you read this cookbook, um it's called Doc Eats. Um, it is not available on Amazon because I didn't want to be a part of that network, but I do have it on my website, and it is just a smathering of breakfast, lunch, dinner, soups, snacks, and favorite brands and some health advice in there that I think would benefit anyone. And so, to that, if gluten and dairy are very inflammatory to most people, we need to consider what we are also feeding our horses. Because if gluten and dairy is something that could make my joints hurt less, I didn't even know that that was possible, could make my body composition be, I mean, I stopped those two foods and lost 30 pounds. I was just inflamed. And so we have to consider our horses. Are we feeding them indeed genetically modified, you know, non-organic feeds that are full of corn, soy and wheat? And also, mind you, whey protein. Whey protein is straight up from dairy. And so there's there's much to be considered about the rider's diet and you know, what we bring to the back of our horses. So if they allow us that privilege to sit on their backs and that they respond to our AIDS and that they work closely with our, you know, brain and um our hands and our seat, well, we should honor them by giving them the best nutrition that we can. So segue into those minerals, Dr. Allison. Uh, I also created in 2020 and have slowly built a very sustainable, wholesome made in America small batch made vitamin line. It's called Doc's Originals. And um I added something called mineral complex because everybody that presented in my practice was feeling so anxious. Well, anxiety can be simply from a mineral deficiency. And if you look at your diet, um, I would bet you that you don't have a ton of minerals in your diet. I didn't, because I just didn't know. And so this goes for our animals, this goes for dogs and cats, it goes for, you know, horses and cows. And they say, you know, put a salt block out, and that helps. It does. But um, if you want your horse to feel balanced and digest well and to truly have a calm in the nervous system, one of the most important things you can do is support that with minerals. Um, in our last podcast, I had mentioned I'm not a brand affiliate. I'm not paid by anybody. Um, I love that. So nobody's bought me. So uh I love uh, I believe it's called Health Data Labs Source. Source is a um wonderful bioavailable mineral, and you can put it in the feed. Uh it doesn't, my horses are picky and they eat it right up. I think because they know that they need it. Um, but also I love daily gold. Daily gold is minerals, but it also offers a binder. And um a binder is bentonite clay in in this instant. And um, I just love it because our horses are exposed to toxins sprayed in the air, sprayed on their hay sources, right? And we talked about that a bit as well in the last podcast. Um, you know, glycosphates and herbicides and pesticides on their hay, but also they're exposed to mold, not only in the uh barn, but also in their hay, mycotoxins. And so it is super important that we offer our horses minerals for their nervous system, but also that nice bentonite clay that is soothing and helpful for their digestion. So binding up toxins. So there you have it, Dr. Allison. There is um all that you asked for my uh cookbook and my sources of minerals. And um I just I am so thankful to be here today.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

All the time when we talk, I like think, oh, I've got a question about that. Oh, I've got a question about that. So it's very interesting because whey, um, I think whey is so controversial, right? Like it seems as though I try to listen to a lot of podcasts about, you know, yes, us post-menopausal women should be getting one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. And that's too much protein for me at a at a buck and a half. I'm 150 pounds, so that's just a lot of. And so they recommend, oh, take some whey powder, you know, and we mean on the other hand, it's less processed, and on the other hand, it's um dairy-based, so that's good. And I guess if one was not dairy free, um, and there's certainly a lot of controversy about that. And I find for myself that as long as I eat non-pasteurized dairy, that I am perfectly fine. Um, I think the processing of that has a lot to do. But it I just wanted to kind of comment on how interesting it is that a nutrient, I so my mom was a health educator, uh, and but that was back in the day when it was no fat, no fat, no fat. We needed no fat, but we ate lots of carbs. And now the pendulum has swung to no carb, no carb, no carb. That's actually what raises your cholesterol. Um, healthy fats are really important. Eggs are back, avocados are back, coconut oil is back. And I found it frustrating until I realized through the lens of Chinese food therapy that different bodies need different things. And I just kind of wanted to comment to the to the point where I think just eating cleaner is better. Like I would have to agree with you that I'm not sure whey protein agrees with me very well, but I also have to defer to maybe that works for some people. I I don't know. And you know, that probably depends on how it's produced, right? Like if it's it does.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

You're so right. And and to that, you know, our our our commentary regarding being dairy free or gluten-free, that's not, you know, a requirement for everybody. Not everybody needs to be that. Um, but I would say, and it's a gateway from the It's a gateway to try. It is from the bottom of my heart. If you or someone you love has any level of chronic fatigue, um, you know, systemic inflammation that looks like what that looks like, just to explain what systemic inflammation looks like, is you know, imbalanced hormones and sleep issues and digestive issues and headaches. If you suffer from that, the single most important thing you can do is look at your diet. It is not to look to a medication first, it is not to look to a supplement first. Rather, it is simply changing your diet. And so people go, okay, doc, where do I start? The first place to truly start is to make sure that you are eliminating foods that are inflammatory. Just as you mentioned, Dr. Allison, pasteurized dairy is processed. And our body doesn't know how to absorb those nutrients that have been so modified. And so it's so important to look at, you know, if you just temporarily, let's say for two months, cut out pasteurized dairy and you cut out your, you know, wheat, it's going to make you feel better. Then you can find sources, you know, slowly add them in that do make you feel better, or perhaps you add them in and go, uh-uh, nope, I don't want that. Now, whey protein, as you had mentioned, whey protein is in a lot of animal feed. Um, and so people go, well, what is whey? If you had a gallon of milk in your refrigerator and you went away on vacation and you came back from vacation and you were like, oh, look at this milk, it's gone bad. Whey is the clear protein that has floated to the top and separated itself out from the milk fats. And so this is this is a very take-home point for human nutrition, especially. Most people are not lactose intolerant. It is the protein lactyl boomin that is the problem, indeed. And so, you know, everybody goes, well, I get the lactose-free stuff. And I'm going, that's even further processed. Um, so lactyl boomin is still left behind in that whey and in that milk fat that's on the bottom. So that's what whey protein is. So when they make whey protein, they are allowing milk to indeed sour and scooping off that whey that is that clear top. Um, yeah, there you go. There, there is my explanation for you on that.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

It just it it brings so much to mind, you know. I I love talking to you because it we have such a ping-pong, like you said, um, we have pickleball to bring it up to conversation. Yes, exactly. Um uh I have to tell everybody that um Dr. Kristen made a comment after we were done that we were the delicious dish. And uh if anybody wants to Google old Saturday Night Live from the riot millennium, it is hilarious. We are, I received that. I am gonna claim to be the delicious dish.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

But so fun.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

It's really neat. You know, it it makes me think of the fact that really, um, and I don't know if I said this on our last podcast, but I recently had a training session with um uh our our Jim's trainer, who is just wonderful. And what he said was so poignant because I think it applies to our modern life. He said, people don't do push-ups anymore, people don't do sit-ups anymore, people don't do just planks. Those are the exercises that actually are going to work the most muscles in your body and lunges and body weight stuff. He said, and he pointed to the gym and he said, they go and you use all these machines, and that is not only isolating, but people aren't ready to handle that amount of isolation for certain muscle groups, and that's not what we need for health. And I I feel like that applies to our health as well. Is my OBGYN, Dr. Nathan Rabhan, who I miss because he's so lovely, he's retired. But he said, um, when I was pregnant with my first child, Allison, eat as close to the ground as you can. Anything that you unwrap means that that's process. And I I love that analogy for those of us who are just trying to clean up our diet, is I think through exercise, through, you know, I'm all about the the computer age, and we sort of think that we're simplifying life, but in reality, we're complicating it to the point that our bodies can't use it anymore. Like we're not, we're not truly genetically made for that.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

So I just, yeah, I'm well saying, thank you for saying that because it's so important that, you know, people are like, oh, your your clo your cookbook cookbook is gluten and dairy free? I said, yes. The reason I wrote it is because if I would suggest that a new patient of mine would remove gluten and dairy well, uh, they would go to the processed packaged stuff that says gluten and dairy free. And then they would come in and they'd say, Well, my digestion's better, but I don't feel any better. And that's because, you know, there's all these companies out there making a killing off of people going gluten and dairy free. Indeed, all of the fruits, all of the vegetables, meats, fish, you know, rice and potatoes, that's gluten and dairy free. And so it's important to know that when I point people to stay away from gluten and dairy, that's the processed foods. When they indeed come back to Whole Foods, they're not really going to be needing to consume that, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

And I and I'll tell you what, I have found that. I have found myself being gluten intolerant. We talked about this on the last podcast. Yeah. And recently, if I, but I've been that way since 2008 when I took the Chinese medicine food therapy course and realized that in Chinese medicine, gluten and dairy and peanuts are the things that kind of stick our energies that we should be avoiding. So I would love to say that finally, if I eat a piece of sourdough bread, you know, or avocado toast or something like that, I don't, my joints don't hurt anymore. So I'm hoping that I've cleaned up my act enough at my late age of life that you do kind of reverse that. I I love the idea in Chinese medicine that there are no such thing as allergies. They don't believe in allergies, they just believe in imbalance. Yes. And the imbalance um shows itself as intolerance for foods, as you know, itchy skin, as headaches, just all the things that you said is really imbalance and true fatigue. Yeah. True fatigue. These people are exhausted and don't know why. Right. And it's it's so much to do has the stress of our our culture that tells us we have to run like we didn't run 50 years ago, even or a hundred years ago for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

For sure. And I I love that you brought up peanut butter.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Um and push a button in your head and off you'll go on this one.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Well, I I just need to say, and you know, for those who are first-time listeners or listening a second time, why are we spending, you know, the first half of this podcast really unpacking human nutrition is because this matters to your horse, who you are, and your health impacts directly your equine friends. And so you need to show up as your best self for your horse who shows up to give you truly their best selves. And so gluten dairy and peanut butter work on a certain receptor in the brain. They're called mu receptors, M U. M U receptors are receptors that are the same hit as someone gets from drug use, especially opioids. So when you yes, when you consume gluten dairy and peanut butter, this is why people go to the peanut butter jar, stick a spoon in, and go to town. Because it it's a hit. And they they don't realize it, but oh boy, does it send their whole brain and their cerebral cortex on this magic carpet ride of joy? This is where eating your feelings comes from, right? And so yeah, it's so important just to realize that connection. Uh, early in my career, I studied food addiction, um, really being honest with ourselves about why we eat certain foods. And it's interesting because you'll see that connection throughout in my cookbook of, you know, I used to eat this as a kid. Um, my mom has passed away. About a decade ago, and she her love language was making us food. And so what foods trigger certain emotions for people, there's your heavy-hitting uh, you know, evidence-based medicine that food and dopamine just run hand in hand. And so when the world disappoints us or relationships disappoint us, food doesn't talk back. Indeed, it just makes us feel good. However, the latter of that is that you end up feeling absolutely terrible within the next four days after eating something, you feel great in the moment. And then it just picks you up and drops you off uh just like a terrible date. So I I just wanted to note that for everybody and make sure, you know, just drops you off at the curb. Um, and we can't we cannot be eating foods that do that, right? I want to wake up, I want to feel well, I want to feel calm and happy. I want to give myself the grace that I need for the day. I want to uh eat foods that are going to fuel my body. Everybody wants this. We we wake up with the best of intentions. Um, but good intentions are just out the window usually by noon for people because 10 million things have bombarded them in their morning and in their early afternoon. They're tired, they're cranky, they're frustrated, they're overwhelmed, and they turn to food for a dopamine hit. It is, this is normal. This is nothing to beat yourself up over, but it's something to be aware of and work actively to correct because I promise you the freedom that's on the other side of that is amazing. So that when you then show up to your barn and you mount your horse, you are truly joyful and they read that, right? They are telepathic beings that really sense our gut brain connection. And I don't think many people think about that.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I'm gonna, I'm laughing hysterically because the telepathic beings thing reminds me of when my daughter was little and we had an off-track thoroughbred that was just a lovely individual. And he was fairly atypical as a thoroughbred because he was always happy, always cheerful, didn't have an angry bone in his body, but he was very, very sensitive. And um, when she was her teenage years and maybe having, I wouldn't call them mood swings, but you know, those kind of days, he would come up out of the pasture and he'd see her from about 30 yards out and turn right around and go, Nope, not today. That's right. And she would throw her halter down and she's like, I know it's me. Right. That's right. But they do. They read us from and there's all kinds of beautiful, you know, talks about that on the internet that they do read our energy and we do have a um an obligation or responsibility is a better word, to make sure that we try to stay as clean as possible and not expect them to vacuum up our trash.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

There it is. Right there you nailed it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

A lot of people say, Oh, this is my this is my soulless, you know, I have my horse for my relaxation. And that's great. But um maybe uh we should think what are we to them, right? For sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

They can't look at us and go, oh no.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Well, they they can and they do, but they do it for us anyway. And there'll there'll be plenty of times, and I am not thinking about a specific client when I see this, but there'll be plenty of times where I just am in awe, especially with school horses, like what they actually do for us. You know what I mean? They know they're teachers and they are just so noble. And um, I personally have an altruistic goal of being as good as them for the rest of my life, you know, and and therapeutic horses.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I mean, it's just such an honor, right? It's what an honor that they just to just to serve those horses who serve so beautifully and they give their whole heart, um, and they're so forgiving and loving, and they're just they're wonderful beings, you know, and that just segues us into, you know, today's discussion of horses and fascia. And if I could could relay a message today, you know, your horse and horses in general, you know, not just yours, but the ones in the barn or your pasture mates, um, you know, they're not machines. They're so sensitive, incredibly sensitive. Um, and they're living athletes, and their body records every experience that they have ever had. And ours do as well. Um, we're not very conscious of that. But when we understand fascia, and we'll explain that in a moment, we begin to realize that many behaviors that we label as resistance are actually simply the horse telling us something in their body doesn't feel right. And so they're trying to tell us, hey, I have a problem there. And we're just like, oh, stop being this way or stop being that way, or you know, give me a whip or give me a spur, or put a harsher bit on. I want to talk a little bit about that today. Um, and so, you know, fascia, people always say, well, what is fascia? Okay, so you have all of your organs and you have all of your muscles and you have your bones and your nerves and your vessels. Well, in between, all of that tissue in the body is this slimy but but strong um fascia that is so when you go to cut chicken, it's that very clear film that is between muscles, that goes around muscles, that goes around vessels, that goes around your organs. And fascia is the connection, it is the information highway for all of that to communicate from the brain to the spinal cord to the nerves that run out to the muscles. If you don't have fascia, you don't have an information highway of the body. And the fascia is so sensitive that it can create or release restrictions based on trauma, use, emotions, anything, right? Any experience. There's recordings in the fascia. So most riders, you know, they only think about the bones, the joints, the muscles, you know, the stifle, the hawk. But truly what connects the horse from the pole to the tail and down the legs is a body of fascia. It's that web of connective tissue. And, you know, it is the most important thing that we can do is put our hands on our ponies, just like you do, Dr. Allison. It's so amazing to watch you work. And we can ask their body through our body, hey, what's going on? And it's not that your brain has to even know, but the fact that you show up there with that intention, you will be able to be a therapeutic assistant to help your horse release.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I love that. Um, I think I mentioned this in my last podcast, but it bears maybe talking about again in that when I was learning how to teach myofascial release, I learned sort of the process, but I really felt like I, as a veterinarian, I should learn more about the science behind fascia. And unfortunately, it is a fairly new science, and there isn't a lot of research, and all of the research, most of the research, at least on the quality of fascia is done in humans. And there are some books out there, by the way, for um fascial lines and fascial trains in horses, which are really cool. But what I learned is that our nervous system, um transmits information through our bodies at 50 meters per second. Yes. Our fascia transmits information at 1,500 meters per second. So fast, yes. It's 30 times faster than our nervous system. So those who are studying fascia, which by the way, probably when Dr. Maury and I were in our professional training, as we do anatomy, we sort of cut all that goo away so we can see the arteries and veins and nerves and tendons. And really, it's probably the most important structure in our lives and in our bodies. And we're finally figuring that out, I think, in some mainstream medicine, although mainstream medicine doesn't know how to address it either. Um, but that's just super important. And I would love for you to speak to um posture in your riders that you work on and maybe some exercises that they might be able to do. And I don't know if you can describe those, but I know that you talk to me about them all the time and ways to strengthen and correct. And yeah, having a great body worker for yourself is important.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

And I'm not just talking about a deep tissue massage, although that's lovely as well. Um, but someone who understands the connections, because again, we hold things in our body, our fascia holds a record of things. Um, I can remember when I was back in one of my early courseworks, I studied heavily under John Barnes, who has since passed away, but what an incredible teacher and what an incredible physical therapist. And he worked with horses as well. His son, I believe, is an equine therapist, and he's he is phenomenal. I will be taking one of his courses in the next year. Very excited for that. Myofascial release for the equines. And and I do fascial release on equines as well, which one of the first things that uh Dr. John Barnes ever said was uh, can you sit up straight and can you put your shoulders back and down? Because everybody is slumped in their chair. You know, people don't realize your head is 16 to 18 pounds. Okay. So it doesn't sound like much, but well, if you think of a newborn baby, you know, that's seven to ten pounds, right? Let's talk about doubling that. That is so heavy. And then people often don't think about how tiny the neck bones are, right? Those cervical vertebrae, I always call them chicken necks. Like our cervical spine is small. So in your neck, that's it. That's what's holding things up. And and so, as the backup system for that, it's right between the shoulder blades. Most patients that present the first time to me say, Ah, I always have this like tightness in between my shoulder blades and like up on top of my shoulders where it like connects to my neck. And, you know, I take a little look at them from the sideline, and you know, their chin is so far out. And as a rider, you can totally see this, right? And look at where people's chins are, you know. And so the I was taught plumb line posture when I rode, you know, I was taught back in the 80s. And so you sat up straight, but we need to bring our shoulder blades back and down, right? And so we need to then bring our chin backwards. And and when we do that, it really stretches out those pectoral muscles in the front. Now, this is the disconnect where people really need to pay attention and don't really think beyond just pull your shoulders back and down. When we round forward, as we normally do at a computer, looking down at our phones, you know, doing dishes, even cooking, our muscles between our shoulders and and up, you know, um, I'd say from the bra line to the back of your skull, they are so weak and they are so stretched out. When you do bring them back, then your low back and your glutes need to kick in. So when people say, Okay, I want to be a better rider, you know, what exercises should I do? I'm like, well, there's actually quite a few. One, your core strength. Love it, but let's talk about that. Core strength isn't just sit-ups or you know, leg raises, right? Your core, the root of it is your high neigh. Your glutes. We need to make sure that our glute minimus, medius, and maximus are their absolute best for our horses. So the easiest way to look into those exercises, because it is hard to describe via podcast, is to go on YouTube and say exercises for glute minimus, glute medious, and glute maximus. They are three different muscles, they function completely different and they each need their own set of exercises. Ladies and gentlemen, you will be astonished at how weak you feel when you begin to exercise your glute mead and your glutmin. So those muscles in your rear end then balance your ability to strengthen your abs. You know, everybody's like, oh, I'm doing my sit-ups and my crunches and my leg raises and my bridges. That's great, but you need to strengthen your rump. Same thing for horses, right? What do we say about our horses? Oh, the motor is where? In the hind end. Well, how do we get them to strengthen their hind end? Start with some hills, right? And this is where it ties right back into our last podcast, Dr. Allison. You gotta get out of the arena. You have got to get out of the arena. You gotta get them on different surfaces, but hills are gold. Now, hills for humans are gold. We tend to not want to walk up hills or stairs, right? We want to take the elevator, we want to take the escalator, take the stairs. It's so important. And you're gonna be okay being a little short of breath. It's good, it's good for you, you know? You're so funny. So, um, you know, the one thing that I would say really nails all of the muscles that I want to get, you know, strengthened on a human is if you lay on your belly and you take deep breaths, because you gotta breathe. You can't hold your breath. A lot of people do this first time, they hold their breath. Lay on your belly and raise up your arms and raise up, meaning backwards, right? Like you're flying. That's called superman's. Put your feet off the ground so that you are literally balancing right there on your pelvis and your belly. And hold that. Try to hold it for 10 seconds. You're gonna start shaking. But those muscles need to be strengthened. So, do you know what I do? I get on a real good song, I get on my belly, and I will raise and lower to the beat. Why do I do that? Well, because I lose count within like three seconds if I'm trying to do a rep, can't even remember how many, and then I get frustrated. And then I also am more motivated because I just love music so much, right? So I will exercise to the beat of a song, and that's an excellent rep and set for me. So I I highly recommend that. But Superman's is is my number one. Also, get yourself against a wall, okay? A flat wall that you can then do, let's say, an upper body snow angel. They're called wall angels. It is so difficult for people to be able to slide their arms in a plane that is consistent, keeping the backs of your hands and your elbows against a wall over your head all the way down to your waist. Those are those are really great beginning exercises for the rider to be able to strengthen the muscles that your horse needs. Okay. And um if you start there, you must give it six to eight weeks. You know, everybody quits exercises after six weeks because they say it doesn't work. But if they just waited two more weeks, they would see how much it works. The eight-week marker is everything. So if you start that today, you know, you're looking at May before you see changes. And and that's the start of, you know, the prime show season. So why don't we get after that as soon as you hear this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

I think that's lovely. And when you're doing wall angels, do you have your legs apart or together or doesn't it matter? I'm I'm I'm in truly doesn't matter. Okay. Really.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I mean, you know, whatever you're comfortable with. I my normal stance is just having my feet below my shoulders, right? Um I I love squats, but form really matters. So if you're gonna do squats ever, please reference YouTube videos. There's so many personal trainers out there who have great exercises that they have posted, and I love, I just love that for them. Um, so YouTube, uh Glut Mean Minimus, Medius, and Maximus. Um, you can also YouTube Wall Angels. Uh, you can also YouTube Supermans. Those are wonderful. Supermans, and sometimes people call them swimmers, and that's fine as well. Um, your horse will thank you. You will thank you, and um you will be amazed at what it feels like to lengthen the front of you, your pectoral muscles, your rectus abdominis muscles, and strengthen the back of you, which is you know, your latissimus dorsae, your trapezius, upper, middle, and lower, and all three gluteus muscles.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

I think that's amazing. And I also find that when my wonderful fitness guy is talking to me about simplicities, first of all, he told me to do Superman's. So uh I'm hearing that a lot, and I need to make sure I know that I do a lot of core, but what I learned also was that like doing the bug on your back and holding a big therapy ball, you know, in between your elbows and knees, I wasn't completely engaging my low back to the ground because, you know, he gets down there. He's like, Nope, nope, you're still arched. You gotta, you gotta smush that down, you know. Like it's true. Well, it's amazing as I I've worked out um all my life. I have just exercised as my Prozac, as I as I say. And true. Um, so I feel like I've been doing things pretty correctly, and it's amazing how you can catch yourself in the simplicity of things that you might be able to improve, not the big bulky stuff. But the other thing that is amazing to me is um yoga. I think that um some really well done, simple yoga moves are both lengthening and strengthening and really, I think great for my booty and my core as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yoga videos are on Apple Fitness. I mean, it is just absolutely amazing. Apple Fitness Yeah, there's it comes free. I think with an Apple TV, Apple Fitness videos, people don't even know they exist. And I just I was amazed by them years ago when I started practicing yoga. And then on YouTube is Yoga with Adrian. And I've recommended her to so many people because she has this catalog now. I mean, she's been teaching for over a decade, I know very confidently I can say that. And she just makes free yoga videos and she always has her dog, and it's really sweet because you know, some are 10 minutes, some are 15, some are 30, and some will be for low back and some will be for shoulders. So she has such a varietal to choose from on there. And um I just I love those two resources. So I just wanted to go ahead and plug those. Love that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

So I did take the um Mark Barnes course, by the way. You were talking about John Barnes being sort of this father of fascial release in America, and uh that was the course that I took in 2012, a long time ago, and have incorporated it with I say my chiropractic, because that's a that's something that people know what that is. But I think that, you know, doing the fascial release body work is just amazing. And like you said, I think getting a practitioner that can really help the the humans be more symmetrical, be more mobile. You know, mobility is almost more important than strength as we age. I think it actually is strength as we age. I think it ties together more and more.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

And so when we think about our fascia, Dr. Allison, we must think about our horse's fascia. Um and I have a horse that has significant fascial restrictions. So I can very much speak to that he is a Canadian sport horse. And so I learned the hard way about fascial restrictions in my horse affecting my lower back. I also learned about how my back affects the fascial restrictions of my horse. And so I think that I really want to challenge every equestrian to think about that. If you think about a horse's lifespan, right, you need to. Consider that you were not there likely for their birth and their early handling. Right. So from birth to training, every single moment imprints on these horses. Um, halter pressure as false. How the horses are started or broken under saddle. This is huge. Having tight nose bands and very harsh bits, having imbalanced riders, falls or accidents, or trauma that the horse has been through. And again, just like those racehorses, repetitive training patterns. These experiences are what create tension in, and you will see it and you will feel it if you if you want to, but the jaw, the pole in their tongue and in their fascial structures. And that leads to several things that people often dismiss as behavioral, and they're not. It leads to resistance, head tossing, asymmetry, difficulty bending, and the dead giveaway is the tail to the side.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Absolutely. I can attest to all of that. And, you know, it is really difficult to know where these restrictions come from, right? Like on the one hand, I um I see thoroughbreds that have not been handled at all or even put a halter on them until they were two years old. And then their training processes, uh, hate uh, you know, I hate to say breaking, but the breaking process is just really breaking them. You know, they have to be harsh, they have to be worse. But on the other hand, you know, uh having a foal that um has to wear a halter all the time, or the foal, you know, we see the rescues that need that the halters have grown into their heads all the time. I know. Yeah. Um, I I would absolutely say that my um I find that chiropractic and myofascial release, and I I do a Chinese version of that sort of thing, which is it falls in the category of tweena. When when I do all that, a lot of times the cocked tail can improve. But it is just amazing how interconnected the body is stem to stern, and how, and if anybody wants to listen to my podcast on the neuro, the neurology of chiropractic, then I think that was January or February this year, December or something. Um thank you. The head and the tail are connected, like the dura mater spreads the pressure out. So if there's a lot of pole pressure, it spreads it to the croup. And if there's a lot of sacroiliac and croup pressure, it spreads it to the pole. The same goes for the neck and the low back. So it is often I find that horses with problems with their neck spine will have a roachy lumbar area. Absolutely. It's amazing how further is farther, if that makes any sense. You know, it's like our bodies really transmit tension um a long ways away. And I also learned in my fabulous um surf with amigas uh surf um retreat, surf retreat last week, that the tongue and the diaphragm are connected to our pelvic floor. Holy smokes, that was a monster blower for me, is that I've worked on my breathing. I love doing breath work. That's super important. We could touch on that with horses as well, um, that they tune right into our breathing. But I had no idea the tongue was related to my pelvic floor as an aging woman. So all fascinating stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Yes, absolutely. It is, if you if you think of your equine, um, their breathing and airway function, right? And their stride length and their propulsion, right? This is coming from their rear end, but being driven by their brain telling their rear end what to do, all while we are sitting on their back with our emotions, with our fascial restrictions, and with our inflammation, right? So we have to consider that large picture, what we're bringing to them, how they're performing, and what we can do to help them, not how we can train them further, but what we can do to partner with them, right? Like just like humans have right or left hands, right? Horses also have a dominant side too. That's that's natural. Now, some of us are ambidextrous, congratulations, but not all of us are. And so that that front and the hind end also are important because if they have been allowed, they'll be very strong in the front and just let that hind end go for, you know, its own little daisy ride. But the same thing with humans, right? Humans will sit as long as they can. So, you know, they they're they can be very mobile with their arms, but not strong in the seat. Um, I always tell my patients, um, this is kind of important for riders as well. I challenge you. I challenge you to cross your arms. So, you know, put a palm on each shoulder and get in the middle of the room, sit down, lay completely down, again, with your arms still crossed, and then get yourself back up to standing without using your arms.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

It is gold and it should be a life goal. Now, I always joke when I'm, you know, doing public speaking that you know I've fallen and I can't get up. This is this is your way out of that. But that's awesome. Everybody remembers that commercial, right? Um that's awesome. However, uh, it is so important that you are able to do that, that that you don't need your arms to stand up out of a chair, that you don't need your arms to get up off the floor, that you have that pelvic strength and alignment and mobility to be able to do that. And honestly, if you can't, don't feel badly about it, but do not allow that to become your normal. Say, I will be able to do this. So we have um, just like in that sh old show Double Dare, we've given a physical challenge today, Dr.

unknown 50:36

Allison.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Well, and and you know, there was a there was a time, I I I said this last time, there was a time where I was having the message, and I love when messages come to me repeatedly, because I think that's um sort of the universe talking to me and saying, um, this is something you need to pay attention to. And there was a period where I would wake up in the morning and I would hear the words, anything can be healed. You know, I think that's kind of part of the problem of Western medicine is that we think we get allergies and they're not to be corrected, or we think we have this tightness and that's just aging and it's never gonna get any better. And I disagree with everybody. I I disagree because I think that that everything can be healed.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Yeah. I agree. I totally agree. And if we take the time to acknowledge what it is and then to break it down into baby steps, not rush the process, right? I liken that, you know, in the human language to those who have been in the hospital, right? So you lose a week every single day that you lay in a hospital bed.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

And so remind me, I've been away from my exercise for two weeks, and I had a butt buster yesterday in the gym, and I feel exhausted and and weak. I was surfing, so I was definitely active, but I wasn't using exactly what you talked about, which was my lower body.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

And those horses, they need to be able to move, move, move. Circulation, neurology, all of it. Those horses need to be able to move. And they also are doing self-help, by the way. Horses know what they need. They need you to help them, but they can also help themselves. One of the biggest mistakes I see modern riders doing in multiple disciplines, might I add, is forcing horses into frames instead of creating a comfortability, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:43

I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go one step further, is that a frame is something that is visual. And my daughter and I have had this conversation recently. I think that a frame is something that we think is what there it is a visual of what we think it means to be using yourself correctly. And really, I think the word should be abolished from equine rider language. It should be a connection and it should be um engagement. And I think that second, yeah, I'm I'm just I'm not into the frame thing. I just I think that that is one of the fascinating things that I've been learning over the last couple of years is from the farriers that I've been working with, one of which is my life partner, and it it you cannot look at a horse's foot and say, you can see the discomfort, but the the shoeing and trimming process is um is a process. And so people will send me pictures and say, What do you think about this shoeing? And I I I can't comment. You know what I mean? Right because it isn't a look, it is a function of how the horse is moving and what that farrier has tried to accommodate for the um anatomical deviations in that limb. And so, and as that horse gets trimmed, the foot changes within the trim. And so there's so much of our world that we want to assess by visual that just cannot be assessed. So I'm sorry to digress and get on my own soapbox as you were taking off on yours, but no, I'm with you. Frame is not a word.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

And and I second that. Um, and and I challenge the horse industry to address it. Um, just as they addressed, you know, not trimming whiskers in Europe. We really need to address this issue of putting your horse, forcing your horse into a working frame. I feel, and it is my opinion, everybody has one. I feel that the horse must volunteer that posture. And that posture comes encouraged to work themselves correctly. Yes. And and that, and and I will feel this in my own horse, but what does that take? Well, that takes several moments, maybe 15 to 20 to 30, when people are kind of done exercising, right? Um it takes time for him to connect to me, to trust me, to move forward, to loosen up. There's there's it takes time, right? And it takes connection. That horse in his cerebral cortex must feel safe and must be comfortable. They will speak to you.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Comfort and safety are are integrally connected in horses. We're gonna have comfort that they don't.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

It's so true. And and so what I often saw, um, you know, I ran a boarding facility for quite some time, is the the you know, rider gets on, they walk once in one direction, they walk once in the other direction, and um, you know, they begin to trot and their horse's head goes up. Okay, so there's the hollow back. And so what these riders do is they lower their hands. What does that do to our posture? Forward head, rounded shoulders, forward chin. So now we are unbalanced sitting over the horse's with their end, you know, shoulder, not engaging their rear end, but instead indeed getting their head down. I I could care less about their head being down, but the horse is not feeling it. So for our listeners, uh, and you know, maybe it's trainers, maybe this is just a simple rider, um, what would it feel like for you to have a piece of metal in your mouth, right, with someone pulling backwards on your head and neck while carrying your body weight on the the back side. So when riders sit with that question, I think that that changes how they think about the the softness of their contact. Contact is everything. And I have found that if you think about the tension that you bring in your head, neck, and shoulders from your work day um or you know, your stress level, that translates into how you grip and hold your reins. That translates in how you pull backwards or forwards. And if your gluteus muscles are not strong enough to hold up the weight of your head, which is what, 16 to 18 pounds, your arms, your trunk, then that variability is translated through your reins. And your horse is trying to understand what your leg aids are, but also understand where you are in your center of gravity. And so until you perfect that at a walk and a stop and a start, I don't suggest much that you move to a trot and a canter, let alone jumping. You know, all the all the little girls and the little riders want to just jump. But you must master that connection in your seat and not be a heavy-seated rider, but in that seat through your legs, through your heels, through your spine and your head, and then allow the arms to do their work. So when I was growing up, we would ride without without hands. We would tie our reins in a knot and we would ride without hands. The horses looked gorgeous. When you take your hands back, that's when trouble starts. And that's where you can really sort out as a rider if you are being a friend or a foe. And while you're riding, watch your horse's ears. They will tell you. Watch the horse's eye. It will tell you. It is everything. Watch their breathing pattern. And so I challenge everybody to really not force the horse to be the machine, but look at them holistically, look at yourself holistically, care for your horse's fascia, care for your fascia, and not stress so much about performance but connection. And that is the the route of success for the sport of equestrians.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

I love that. Thank you. Of course. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

And passionate horsemanship, right? Well, and I'm I'm assuming that you're you have a lot of experience through your patients to be able to, you know, understand how their bodies are working with their horses, not just you and your own. Well, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Absolutely. And you know, they'll they'll bring their riding problems to the treatment table in my you know, office. And I will be able to dissect out very quickly where that's coming from because typically the horse is not the problem, it's us.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

And that's always the case. I feel like I could have things.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

Yeah, just trying to tell us something. Thank you for helping my mom correct her attitude as well as her posture.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Just take a moment to understand, you know. I I just recently had a um a request for an appointment. And, you know, it was a lot of back and forth of, well, I can't be there. I work 8 to 5:30. I'm going to have to find somebody else to hold for you. And I could tell through my phone that this rider was so involved in her life and coming out and riding her horse three or four times a week was almost a chore, or she was really relying on that horse to, you know, go with her hurricane flow. And I I've never seen this horse before. It's on my books, and I'm, you know, but that's not atypical. It is atypical for my my practice now, but it is not atypical for me to have people that are kind of racing through their own life and they're wondering why their horses are having problems or they can't focus or they can't settle. And it's so much because the owners are um having issues that they're ignoring, and the horse is the perfect mirror. So our horses are our our our perfect mirror, and um, the better we hone our ability to listen to them and to think about things from their perspective, and you know, knowing that our human culture and especially our Western culture is is just very impatient. And it's and I'm I'm no better than anybody else. I'm not preaching because I can really get overbooked and overburdened and not take time to, you know, reconnect with myself and the beautiful breeze and um the birds and all the things. You know, that brings to mind another thing. Um we talked a little bit about breath, but I think the horses really tune into our riders' breathing. And maybe you could talk about I I was recently reading and listening to some breathwork exercises. And by the way, there's a great book, and it's just called Breath, and it is written by James Nestor. I would highly recommend anybody um listening um read that book because they he talks all about how important breathing is, how important not eating baby food and actually chewing our food. I don't know if you've read the book, Dr. Kristen, or not, but I have not, but I'm it is fabulous. Um, and he talks about looking at skulls of people thousands of years old and how their skulls were arranged differently and all of their teeth were straight. We had no need for braces back then, and a lot of it was nasal breathing and chewing our food and things that we don't slow down enough to do now. But so true. Some of the breathing exercises that he talks about was um something that I believe was started in the military was just box breathing. So you take a four-second count, you breathe in for four seconds, you hold for four seconds, you breathe out for four seconds, you hold for four seconds, and you can increase that time. Um, something else that my hero Andrew Huberman has um coined or or or uh developed is um the physiological sigh. And so there's lots of studies behind if you breathe slowly through your nose as deeply as you can, and then right as you think your lungs are full enough, you do an extra little whiff and then let it out really slowly. That it he he talks about it as kind of that's what we do when we're crying to settle ourselves, is that we take a big sigh and then we have a last little kind of a gaspy breath. And that is really settling for our vagal nerve, like the breath work that we could do on our own first thing every morning before you get out of bed, as you've opened your eyes, is gonna help our horses. And so the horses um monitor not only your energy, but your breathing. And so if you are shallow, you know, um diaphragmatic breathing and you're not really breathing deeply through your body and allowing that breath energy through your body. I love that um Chinese medicine talks about the different types of qi, and there are there's immune qi, there's all kinds of qi for our body. We think about qi as one thing of energy and there's all different branches, but our guc, is our food qi. And so what we ingest and what the energy that we take in, and you and I have talked now for two hours about how important it is to keep our Gucci clean, right? Our what we take in through our bodies as clean as possible.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

But we also have qing qi, which is q-in-g, and our qing qi is our breath qi. So we need to make sure that we're getting good energy in through our breath as well, and just regulating our breathing will um settle our horses and help us regulate to them. So And just to speak to that, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Allison, I don't know where I read this or um learned this fact, but have you ever just been riding your horse and they take a deep breath?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

That is their cue to us to take a deep breath.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

I love that. And it isn't that we finally relaxed and they're finally relaxed, it is that they're trying to help us out. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Yeah. And and I have followed that for years. Um Um, anytime my horse is just walking and they take a deep breath, I take a deep breath so that they hear it and they feel it. And um breathing together synchronously is super important. Um, and I'll I'll end on this thought is when I uh I showed a lot when I was little and was wildly successful. And then I went to college at 16 and then to medical school and got married and um was sort of, you know, house poor and couldn't afford horses. So I came kind of crawling back in my late 20s and uh just I'll ride anybody's horse or anything. And so I I entered uh ironically the show arena again, and I think I had something to prove to myself, you know, do I still have it? You know, and so I remember going into my first course. I was I was uh kind of an equitation and and a hunter gal. And so uh after life after babies didn't leave my equitation so beautiful. And so I just went into the hunter arena. So, you know, I enter into my first course and I come out and I am gasping, and I mean gasping for air and and actually quite tearful. And my trainer goes, What happened to you? And I was like, I don't know. I I I actually think I held my breath the entire course. And it indeed, um, because my second round was coming up, I um, yes, I held my breath in the show arena. And um, so I had to train myself to breathe when doing a course. You know, if if I was in a lesson and we did, you know, uh a couple of lines or, you know, a single, I was totally fine breathing. But when I entered the arena being judged, I mean, I held my breath and had no idea I was doing so. So I just want to add that nugget because I can imagine that if I did it, many other people do as well. How must your horse feel? My horse was probably like, should I dial an ambulance? Um, my rider.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Well, my rider's our bodies are like a brick, right? Our bodies are like a brick when we don't breathe. And the the tension of the lack of breathing goes into our fascia. So, you know, our tension can be mitigated just by breathing and nasal breathing, not mouth breathing. That that is one of the things that book really talked about was correct. I'm also a runner, and you must have a breathing rhythm, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

Yeah. Um, so so that's that's just a little important nugget to to mention to my uh listeners who are here that do enter that show arena and who are judged. Indeed, we need to be very aware that we are breathing. And and I often think as we are approaching a fence, yes, you're counting, yes, you're feeling the rhythm, yes, you're riding the rhythm, but you need to check in with your own self to breathe because I bet you you will find that distance a lot more successfully when you're oxygenated.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

So cool. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

Thanks so much for being here. Been so wonderful, just you know, honoring the horses and talking about really caring about ourselves and, you know, really optimizing that connection between horse and rider, but also just showing up as our best selves and giving our horses uh space to communicate with us properly about their needs, um, honoring their past and helping them partner with us because ultimately that's what they want. You know, horses are healers. So uh it needs to be a duality, it needs to uh be a relationship and a partnership, and um that can deepen over time. So I hope that everyone enjoyed listening. If you need any more information uh on on anything that I do, I'm more than happy to be available. I have a website that you can access and I'm gonna spell it out for you. I'm gonna say it and then I'll spell it out. It is www.drmoricares.com. So that is www.dr m-o w r y c arescares dot com. On there, there's an email, there's an area where you can leave a message. I hope that you all have enjoyed this. Dr. Allison, thank you for having me be a part of this incredible podcast. I think my horses have benefited from your heart and your hands for so many years. Um, you are one of my true heroes on this earth, soul sister. I mean, you're so sweet. Thank you. Working with you has been incredible. Um, and I wish that we could multiply you in every state and city because the equines that benefit from your hands are just doing your hands are doing wonders and they're doing so much better because of the work that you bring. Um, and speaking to that as a veterinarian, I honor you so much because you truly take care of yourself. So you show up for yourself with diet, with exercise, with uh, you know, proper supplementation, um, by looking at your own, you know, whole picture, what you offer to us as your clients is tremendous. You know, um you come to our barns as a whole, healthy being, and you have the biggest heart, and it is just an absolute honor to be with you. Um, it is an honor to work with you and to be a space where people can listen in and learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

Gosh, I don't know what to say after that. Thank you. I appreciate all of your words. I I would encourage anybody who is trying to think about where to begin on their journey to be healthier, that anything can be healed, and it just is one step at a time. And so, you know, you recounting, I mean, you've been in my life for 10 to 15 years, and you've watched me uh try to make healthier choices on all platforms. And I think that's really what it takes is a a curiosity, an attitude of curiosity and learning. And so I'll say, I could take this out of my diet, let's see what happens, or I could exercise in this way and let's see what happens. And I I think really people get very daunted about, you know, when we talk about health, they're like, oh, I'm not doing any of it. I might, I just shouldn't bother. And I it is it's very it can be daunting if you look at it like that, but you just oh, I love the the saying from Lao Tzu, which is the writer of the Tao Deijing, which is the ancient Chinese uh handbook or Bible. He says, An oak tree begins with one acorn and a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step. So true. So true. On that note, it's perfect place to end.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

Yes, progress over perfection, everyone. Just keep making progress. All my love.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:29

Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much, Kristen.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

Absolutely a pleasure to talk to you and to speak to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

Talk soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:39

Bye.