Locals
Where we talk to people who are... well... local.
Locals
Steve Wright, The Last Hiker
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Steve Wright, author of The Weight I Carried, joins us today for a talk about his childhood, his life and his 2,200 mile hike through grief to healing on the Appalachian Trail.
There is a little adult language in this interview. Nothing you've not heard before.
Welcome to Locals, the podcast in which we talk to people who are, well, local. Today's episode is the first of a two-part conversation. Steve Wright's story is simply too big and too fascinating to be conveyed in one episode. You might know Steve. He's a local contractor, he's the father of Jocelyn and Tristan, and he lost his beloved wife Sandy to cancer in 2018. He's the author of The Weight I Carried, a memoir of his life and the healing journey he took on the Appalachian Trail. I can attest, it's a wonderful book. And Steve will tell you where you can get it at the end of our second episode. Woven into Steve's story is the legacy of the Vietnam War, the racial tensions of 1968, as well as picking tomatoes, milking cows before school. There are threads of love and loss and redemption in it. His story is about perseverance and includes the lifelong gift of a teacher who sees who you are. His story is amazing. And I'm gonna let him tell it. Here's Steve Wright. So, Steve, it's nice to talk to you. And if you could tell me you grew up locally, you are from Millville, right? So just tell me about your childhood.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so we were super poor. My dad was an alcoholic. I've never seen my dad drink a drink. There was eight of us. Four of us, the kids are blind and four can see. It's uh retinopigmatosis. And that's kind of how we we grew up. I worked on um a tomato farm. It was actually Van Houten's and uh Manley Foats. I worked on two different ones. It would have been in the summer going into third grade, but all my family did. The only one that didn't was my youngest sister Tammy, because you know she would have been a little bit too young. I was probably a little bit too young, but anyway, I mean I wanted to go. I wanted to work, and I love being with my brothers and sisters. We all worked in tomato fields. My dad was going to die if he didn't get on a dialysis machine. World War II vet, and he served in France. I suppose he had PTSD, you know, but they didn't talk about that. So he had some problems and he became an alcoholic. He never, like what I would say, in any way abused me. Not saying that things didn't happen between my older brothers, though, because they, you know, I'm the youngest of eight. They were older, so they did see all the drinking and stuff. Um my mom was a super religious lady, just absolutely believed in the Bible and and God, and made us sit down and have a Bible reading every night after even my dad. Okay, um, for 20 minutes and we would talk about it. What church did you go to? When I was in it this little town, it was the Millville Christian Church. All right. Okay. And then when I moved back, which would have been uh three and a half years later, I was in a rebellion thing. So I was like, I don't want nothing to do with that. I got a job working for this farmer. His name is Justin Smith. He was a Quaker. So I became a Quaker. Oh, did you really? Yeah, I was a Quaker from sixth grade until I graduated. And my wife, Sandy, she was a Methodist. So then I ended up wanting to be with her. I started going to her like Sunday school stuff, and then pretty soon I joined the Methodist church. Always had a soft spot in my heart for both of those churches, though, the the Christian church and the Quaker Church.
SPEAKER_00So you went to the Millville meeting? Yes. Elizabeth and I are on the rolls as members there. We attend now, but we have for years. My kids grew up in the Millville meeting. So yeah, it's a wonderful building. You know Ed Zullenberger then. Oh, I know Ed, yeah. I know Ed.
SPEAKER_01Ed was the youngest guy in the church. I was well, the youngest adult. And him and my sister Bonnie went to Penn State together. Uh-huh. But Ed, it kind of like was, oh, there's another young guy. The youngest person besides us was like 65. Right. Oh my god, it was funny. So he was, he'd sit next to me, and I had a window seat, and I fed squirrels before I came into the meeting. I had a I worked on this farm, so I put an ear of corn outside there and I watched the squirrel. Oh, that's great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know those windows, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. We knew his mother was a real devout Quaker.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All those guys, Justin Smith and Jack. You probably remember Jack.
SPEAKER_00I remember Jack. Yeah, and we were there when Jack was, oh, he was at the end of his life, but he had such a beautiful baritone resonant voice, and he was always so moved when he would stand up to talk about thinking he was amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, was you there when Bob Mosteller was here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Bob too. And Dean Girton.
SPEAKER_00No Dean, yeah, yeah. Yes. No Dean's family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well that Justin and Elma Smith was the ones, and more or less, he kind of adopted me. So I worked at his place in the morning before school, and when I came home, the bus dropped me off at Van Houten's. Uh-huh. So that's what how that worked. That's great.
SPEAKER_00And then at some point you moved away, you said.
SPEAKER_01Yes. In third grade, I had already flunked school in first grade. In third grade, we moved up there, and so we moved at the end of the summer as I was going into third grade. So it was 1968. So Martin Luther King was already killed. Then Robert F. Kennedy, I think, was killed in June. I think April is when Martin Luther King was killed. But I remember Robert F. Kennedy, the day I started, they changed the school's name from I think it was East Smithfield to Robert F. Kennedy. Yeah, so it started a little thing there anyway, you know, because it was, I would say it was about 70% black. Anyway, so I'm a farm kid, and there's one tree and seemed like the whole city. I was a tree climber. So I climb up this tree, and this little black kid comes around and know, hey buddy, you want to race? And I said, sure. So anyway, I climbed back down and I said, We'll make it even. I zoom right up. But I had already just climbed it, so I knew where the best place was. He couldn't get up. So anyway, I told him to come around the other side, and I said, We'll start from here, this limb. So anyway, zoom on up. I beat him pretty bad. Well, anyway, that didn't go over. We had a crowd around us then, and it was a big circle. And they started throwing rocks at me. It was a fairly big tree. I would say it had to have been close to like 40 feet, you know. And I'm a pretty good judge of heights. My main job is steeple. I do steeples, church steeples and things, you know, government buildings working on slate roof. So I would say it was a 40-foot tree, but they were hitting me with the rocks. And I said, I gotta go down. And James was the kid's name. Now I didn't know that at the time. He said, Don't go down. He said, There's something wrong with them. He said, they'll kill you. And I thought he was exaggerating. Well, I was like, well, they kept hitting me, and I thought, well, I might as well go down. You know, they're gonna get me anyway. So I go down, as soon as my feet hit the ground, they start pushing me. You know, and I'm in a circle, and the circle gets literally and literally, and they're pushing harder and harder. Well, then, you know, I'm I'm not looking, they they push me, I'm off balance, and then somebody hits me real hard in the face. Not in the nose at this point, but in the face, and it just like stunned me. I thought, what? I was never hit in my life, you know. So that knocked me down on the ground. And then I thought, well, they'll surely quit. Well, then they started kicking me, stomping on me with their heels. By the end of this, now James had ran for the cops right away. There's always police at this place. So he ran and the cops came back, but the last thing I remember is getting hit in this ear were I got 2% of my hearing in this ear. Oh wow. So I went unconscious. When I came to, my mom and dad wasn't there, I was in the hospital, but nobody knew who I was. They were like, Well, what's your name, Sonny? And it was James. It said, Hey, we need to know your name. I s I couldn't even think of my name at first, but then I said, It's Stephen, but I had this real bad concussion. I was like I was dizzy, you know. And then the mom says, Where do you live, honey? Because he went home and got his mom. They uh put an APB out for me. So then my mom and dad found me. Now I don't know how long I was in the hospital, and none of my sisters or brothers can remember. So, but I know I was there a while. I ended up breaking all my ribs, and I both busted hands, both hands were busted. From this fight. From this fight, and both feet were busted. I was in just an absolute cast, and then I busted my nose, and then my eyes were swelled shut, and I had just m cuts everywhere because they, you know, this was school, and this was in the 60s, and some people wore dress shoes, especially if you're in the city. So they had sharp heels, you know. So I had just cuts and gashes everywhere. I didn't break any arm or any leg, but my ankles and hands were busted.
SPEAKER_00Now, did you feel, as you remember, was this a racial thing? Was it because you were out a white kid from outside? Yeah, it was as an amount of the anger that just stimulated.
SPEAKER_01So what it was was definitely because of Robert F. Kennedy getting shot. Uh-huh. Because that's what I heard. Uh-huh. That's what I remember. And then that's what I remember when I came back to school. I didn't get back to school for two months. So it was I like I couldn't wipe my butt. My dad had to pick me up out of bed and then put me on the toilet. This was after I was in bed for a couple weeks with a bed pan. But then finally, um I got to go in the bathroom, but I couldn't walk because I had two busted feet. Oh my god. So, and then all my ribs are busted. So as soon as I would start to try to do anything, my abdomen would give away because of the pain in my ribs and my, you know, they obviously kicked me in the guts, too. So that was all sore. And then I had no strength. You know, James saved my life for sure. But we couldn't be friends, like openly, but he was my best friend in Rhode Island. But I had to sneak through another neighborhood to get to his house, or he had to sneak to an now. If we were with our moms, we could walk to each other's house the the correct way. But we could not. They had respect for mothers, you know, but not for kids. Yeah, it was crazy, crazy time. So what took you there and what brought you back to Millville? What brought us there was my dad had to get on dialysis.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that was the reason.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, got it. And and uh it was the only dialysis machine. See, he was a vet and we had no money, so no insurance. The only place that he could find was vet hospital. Well, all the ones in Pennsylvania, they were already filled up. So the closest one was Providence, Rhode Island. So we rooted up all the kids and no money, no nothing. If it wasn't for my oldest sister and Otto, my brother-in-law, I mean, I don't know what we would have done without it, you know. And he was a Jewish man. He was like a a Jesus to us, okay? The guy was an absolute blessing to our family, just an awesome, awesome man. And my sister was she would not leave us abandoned. She had gotten married, she was the oldest of the whole family. Uh-huh. She's 17 years older than me. That's how we got there.
SPEAKER_00I did an interview with Carrie Rodemoyer, who was a Vietnam vet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he talked about his PTSD. Yeah. Although he said it wasn't D, he said it wasn't a disorder. It was a really logical thing that happens when you experience what he experienced. And that's your father. And I think, boy, if we could ever calculate the amount of the cost of wars after the war with your father and the thousands upon thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands of veterans who suffer physically and emotionally after that. I think it's incalculable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01So I could go on and on and on with that story because of what my dad he felt terrible guilt of me getting beat up. And my older brother, Wally, it's next in line in the boys at least, he got beat up bad too. And it wasn't long after I got beat up. My next in line oldest brother was in Vietnam. Now my other brother, Drexels, the oldest one, was signed up for Vietnam. He got sent to Germany, but he got hurt real bad in basic. Anyway, he didn't end up having to go. So our family was glued to this Vietnam news every night. We were glued to that news. And then my dad being in World War II vet, you know, he's worried about his boy. And my brother George, he did see combat. It was a hell of a time. So my dad felt terribly guilty about me getting beat up and about Wally getting beat up. And I said something to my dad. This is one of the things that haunted me on the Appalachian Trail. I figured it was all his fault that our whole family got moved up there. I I said, I wish you'd just die, and then we would be able to go back to Millville.
SPEAKER_00Did you say that to him?
SPEAKER_01I did. Anyway, he was like just turned away. He didn't yell at me. He didn't do anything, but my mom heard me say it. I did it again later. She didn't like scold me at that time, but the next day she explained to me, words can kill. Zooming ahead to fifth grade now.
SPEAKER_00And you were still there. I'm still there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So in fifth grade, I flunk again. And I'm like, I suck at school. I'm no good at this. Why should I even go? I just want to go to Vietnam with my brother. You know? And I'm only in fifth grade, but I just was like, well, I know I'm not gonna go to college. I can't do it. I I can't read. I'm good in math. I'm good at history. I'm good, all those other things, but spelling and reading.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever been tested to see whether dyslex dyslexia or no, I haven't, but everybody tells me that. It'd be interesting to hear.
SPEAKER_01You know, they did. My I got a best friend that says, you are a candidate for this. That was the scoop. And when so this was the biggest fight of my life. I came home from school and I throw my report card down in front of my mom and dad, and I said, I flunked. And I said, I am not going back. I'm not gonna be embarrassed again. My dad was giving me hell and I didn't want to hear it. And my mom was, you can't, you have to go back to school. It's illegal for you not to go back to school. And my dad said, This isn't even an argument. You're going back to school, and you're gonna have to repeat another grade. Then I said it again to him. But this time, I mean, I was vengeance in my voice, you know. I said, I wish you'd fucking die, you know, like just just like that. And I said, This is all your fault. This is not my fault. I can't get it, I can't hear nothing. I sit in the back because my name starts with W, and now I can't hear out of this ear. Yeah, but that was the first time I told my parents I couldn't hear. You know, I was just like, I am not going back to school. All I knew that my ear rang. I didn't know I couldn't hear, you know. I didn't get a hearing test until I wanted to go to the army. And they tested me, and you can't go in, you're deaf. So anyway, um I didn't know I was deaf. I just got used to it. Right. But I did tell them, I said, I can't hear anything. I can't, you know, but it didn't register them that anything might have still been wrong with me because I never complained. It hurt. My ear hurt, uh, but it buzzed like locusts. That's what I heard. So I thought, oh, I'm hearing stuff. So I I thought I was alright, you know, but I'm a kid. Anyway, my mom first slaps me. Now I'm completely healed, and my dad just was like in the middle of just screaming at me. I said that to him, and he just, you should have seen his face, buddy. It was just heart-wrenching. And he just dropped and put his head down and he started crying and he walked left the room. And my mom said, I told you, words can kill. I said, You could kill that man with those words. And this is what was killed me. Ten days later he died. No. So I was just uh I killed him. You still to this day, you can't tell me I didn't kill my dad because if you would have saw his face when I said that, it's just all the energy, all the will to want to live just left him. I put myself in his uh shoes all the time now. I can't imagine my son Tristan saying this to me. It would kill me, you know, and it did kill him. So I hauled this shit up those freaking mountains. You know, it it was not just my wife's death, it was my wife's death that started, but I got these nightmares on the trail. I I hadn't even thought of this. I didn't tell hardly anybody about this, and I did tell my wife that what I said, and I suppose she probably told her friends, you know. She was in seventh grade. I was in ninth grade when we started to like each other. You had Sandy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Sandy was in seventh grade. I knew I wanted to marry her, and I I absolutely was in love with her by tenth grade. Let's go back, and that is an amazing moment. What did your father die of? So he ended up dying of a brain aneurysm. The blood clot went from you know, he had a shunt in his legs, yeah, or in his arm. They moved it all the time because his veins would collapse. I suppose it was it was a blood clot to the brain and aneurysm. That was right after I said that. And that's what everybody says, trying to make me feel good. I know I killed him. And that's why I wrote the book for people like me. I didn't write this book to make anybody go on the Appalachian Trail. I wrote it because I needed it. I found forgiveness for that on the trail. And I didn't get it until the last day of the hiking. Of the last day. Now, I got I got a major healing about a month, maybe five weeks before the hike was over. And I was the last guy on trail by almost two months. And uh, seven weeks. It was like the the last other hiker I saw. Now, I would see people on the weekends, on Friday night to maybe Sunday afternoon, that you know, you'd pass somebody. But I was alone from Sunday afternoon until Friday evening. There was nobody on the track. I was in the wilderness just like all these people in the Bible. Yeah. You know, every time God wanted to do something, he'd send them to the wilderness. Well, I know what they feel like, brother. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, let's go back again. So after your father passed away, then your mother chose to move you back to Millville?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, my mom actually had a nervous breakdown too. And what happened was was she probably was like, oh my God, no, what am I gonna do? I don't have a husband, I got all these kids, I got no money. And she did. She had a nervous breakdown. I didn't know what happened to my mom. I never asked anybody. I still don't know where she went. Now I know she went away, but I didn't know she went to a state hospital. I don't know. That might seem funny to you. Like, why in the hell didn't you ask them? It doesn't matter. I didn't talk about because that was my defense. Yeah. Fuck this. Um keeping this inside. That fight taught me how to hide things. It taught me that if you fall down, you gotta get up or they'll kill you. And I was a soccer coach and I couldn't stand when my kids would fall down. I was a basketball coach. Oh, I bitch and swear, kids, but I was bitching at them kids. Get up. Don't fake an injury. But that was installed in me because when I fell down, you could get killed. So all those, there was all kinds of stuff that affected me for the rest of my life because of that fight. And then my dad, it affected him terrible the first time when I said it. He took me to a gym. Now I'm back in third grade again. And now this is very slightly in my book because we had to delete 22,000 words to get it affordable. Okay. So this is one of the stories. But I'm already writing another book, and this one's in it. Okay. This is, I would say, two weeks after the fight. And um, I'm still just all busted up. I look like shit. And my dad picks me up, and he's like, I can see he was crying, you know, but he's not like you know, just tears are coming down his face. He picks me up, and it was one of those days that he was at the end of himself, he didn't feel good. And I don't know if you ever saw somebody back in those days on dialysis, but it makes them puke. The first day after you just violently sick all the day. Yeah, it was a hell of a death. Now he picks me up out of bed and he doesn't carry me into the toilet. He carries me outside, and my mom's chasing after my dad, and he opens the door and he puts me in this. I thought, where the hell am I going? So anyway, my mom's just, Wally, what are you doing with them? And he doesn't say a word to my mom. He just shuts the door and she's pounding on the window to try to get him to stop, and he just pulls away. I thought, what the hell's going on? He takes me to a gym. He gets me out, and he he bundles me up like this, and I go into this gym and he's holding me, he's cradling me, kinda in his arms, but he's got my my ass on his right arm. And his shunt is on his right arm at the time. And uh anyway, I pull his shunt out of his vein. So he's bleeding all over the place. I know I didn't know that. Yeah. So he walks in the gym, he's just dripping blood all over, and I'm still all black and blue, and he goes right up to the guy, the the boxing trainer, which I found out later was a World War II vet. And then he just says to the guy, he says, Look what they did to my son. My words just killed him, and he was like, I came too sick to teach my son how to defend himself. And he says, You gotta teach my son how to defend himself. And he says, Your son is busted up, it looks like he's, you know, you know, and he says, Well, when he gets better, can you train him? Because I'm gonna die. And the the guy was like, I don't take anybody, he's too young. And he says, Look what they did to him, you know, and now he is crying. And he says, Sir, you're you're bleeding all over this guy. And he wouldn't let the guy take me out of my dad's arm. They're kind of like tug of war. But he saw my dad's shunt out of his arm and he says, I'll take your son. Just like that. When my dad first said, You're in World War II vet, so am I. And he said, and I got no money, but this kid's a good worker. And he said, He'll work for you. Can you train him? And he did. So I went to that gym.
SPEAKER_00So once you healed, yeah, then you worked for him while you trained.
SPEAKER_01I all I did was really clean up, clean the toilets and and wipe down the all the ropes, all the poles. Yeah. I did the floor of the boxing rink. I cleaned the the punching bags and all that kind of stuff. And he taught me how to defend myself. And then he taught me how to really, he says, okay, they're not gonna fight fair. So you gotta fight like them. So he taught me what the Marines taught him. He taught me how to fight like a Marine. And I'm in I'm in third grade, buddy. So, yeah, first he taught me how to box, and he says, the biggest thing is you don't want anybody to hit you in the nose. So that was the big thing. So I, you know, I learned how to keep my hands up regardless and guard my nose. He says, if you get hit in the nose, you're disoriented. He said, let them hit you in the cheek. You got great cheeks. He said, You'd be a great fighter. He said, I can tell. He said, and your skull's thick, you can absorb some punches, you know. And he goes like this, you know. Anybody to come back from what you did is you gotta have a thick head. And he said, that's what a fighter's gotta have if they're gonna be in this for a long haul. So anyway, I love the guy. I gotta tell you this one little thing that's so cool. So this is, I'm writing my book, and I think this story's gonna be in my book, right? I write this part in my book, and I thought, I wonder if I could get a hold of that guy. Now, I'm thinking, well, he's gotta be dead because my dad would have been over a hundred. So this guy's gotta be dead, but maybe the gym's still there. So I call all these gyms in Providence Rhode Island. I have no idea where this place is. I don't know if it's even in business anymore. Well, I call every one of them, you know, and Providence is a fighting town. There's a lot of gyms. I've struck out on everybody, and I'm thinking, well, this was a dead end. I'll get a hold of this last guy, the last gym. And I said, hey, I said, this is a long shot, and I know that the guy that owned a gym might be dead or is dead. He would be over a hundred. The guy said, Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad died a long time ago. I said, Oh, you're the son, and and he said, Yeah, and I said, Well, okay. There was a young boy that I sparred with in a gym, and I said, I came in hurt, and this guy trained me how to box, and then I sparred with his son, and he said, That would be me.
SPEAKER_00So he remembered, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He remembered. He says, Your dad carried you in, and he said, You were all beat up. All of us looked at you, and and he said, I am the guy that you fought. So, yeah, isn't that something? That is something. So I'm going to Providence this summer, and I'm gonna meet the guy. Oh, Steve, that's amazing. Oh, what a crazy. Yeah, and that'll be in the next book.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Yeah, but what I like to do is uh bring us back to Pennsylvania. How long were you there and when and how did you get back to Pennsylvania?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I said I flunked school. My dad dies ten days later, so why stay in Providence anymore? Everybody gets moved back. So I was in trouble, okay, not just because I flunked school. I burned a woods down, and then I got caught stealing two different times. So I was on probation three different ways. So everybody gets placed except for me. Nobody wanted me. So I was in trouble all the time.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, I because your mother was out of the home. My mom we don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and my mom was in some kind of a thing, you know, she was trying to get help. So my oldest sister placed all of us, but she couldn't place me. Everybody had kids like my age, and I just figured they probably thought, yeah, I'll take this one, but I ain't taking this one. You know, so anyway, that was kind of I had a cousin, then his name was Jack Wright and Connie. They ended up agreeing, but oh boy, this is in the book, and I don't want to ruin it. It caused super friction between them. Like I was gonna run away, and it was just all kinds of friction. I won't go into that anymore. That's what happened. Now I was on probation and I was able to pass fifth grade. I think I had to have a C average or something like that for the first uh marking period. As soon as I moved out of their house, which would have been before Christmas, so I was there a little while.
SPEAKER_00Now were they in Providence or were they back here in?
SPEAKER_01They were in Millfield.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you came back here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, good. Yep. And then immediately, as soon as I moved home, I got my jobs. I started working for these farmers. I fed the cows in the morning and then I I go to this thing at night, the the tomato picking. And then I got to be a janitor in sixth grade, too. I got to be the janitor at Jerseytown, which was a grade school back then. Now it's not anything. You know, that's it's uh auction place and they do bluegrass music. They do, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's right next to Jersey Town. I don't know, and that was actually a school, believe it. Yeah, I refinished every floor in there. Did you really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But my brother was a carpenter, Draxall Wright. Uh I think you might know Draxall. I know the name. Yeah. Quaker construction.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes, they've done work on our house before they put a roof on our house. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's what I did. And I actually was a pretty good carpenter, even at a young age, you know. My dad was a roofer and a plumber. He was died before he really could teach me anything. But the guy that taught, that learned off of my dad taught me. So that was kind of lineage. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, so then you're back in Pennsylvania, and you're about to meet Sandy, and we're gonna stop for just one minute. And that's where we're going to leave it for today's episode. So far, Steve's been moved from Millville to Providence, Rhode Island, so his father can get dialysis. He's been beaten so thoroughly in an elementary school brawl that he has a concussion, broken ribs, two broken hands, two broken ankles, and has lost 98% of the hearing in one ear. He's also flunked two grades. He's been arrested for stealing and burning down a woods. Now, if you know Steve, you know what a good, moral, and successful person he is. So how did he get from the obstacles of his childhood to a long, loving marriage to his childhood sweetheart, a career as a professional contractor, and a 2,200-mile hike through grief, loss, and into peace along the Appalachian Trail. Well, to find that out, and it is a fascinating story. You'll have to listen to next week's episode of Locals. We'll see you then. Have a nice week.