Story Matters: Communication, Narrative, Advocacy

Orly talks with Emmy Award–winning performer, filmmaker, and actor Yuval David, who is also a prominent advocate for Jewish and LGBTQ rights, to discuss the importance of narrative and communication in his advocacy work as an advisor, and as a citizen of both the United States and Israel.

Transcript

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All right everyone, welcome back to another episode of Peaced Off! Thank you so much for continuing to tune in. Today, we’re doing a little bit of a different format. I’m solo hosting and we have one wonderful guest, Yuval David. He’s an Emmy Award winning journalist and filmmaker, actor. He’s also a prominent advocate for Jewish and LGBT rights. He’s been a strategic advisor, still is, to international NGOs and policy Institutes, advocacy orgs. He brings a lot of expertise in media and communications and sociopolitical analysis. He’s written a lot of commentary, it appears, across leading news networks all over the place, publications. He frequently speaks at conferences, academic institutions, high level policy forums, and he’s also a creative guy. He’s an actor and a filmmaker. His work has been on FX, HBO, all the networks, Disney, so on and so on. Just a really, really talented guy. He’s a great writer. Academic papers, commentary articles, poetry, even. And you know, Yuval, really……he’s a broadcaster he’s a commentator, and he embraces and dissects complex and contentious issues, and he’s focused on creating space for clarity, courage, and meaningful dialogue. I’m really, really proud and honored to have you here, Yuval. We ran into each other at Sundance, of all places, and then the conversation of Peaced Off! came up. And I’m really glad we finally got you on the program. And so, I mean, I know I just sort of told your bio a little bit, but I’d love to just for you to explain it because that’s an incredible range of stuff that you’ve been doing and still do. So just a little bit to understand yourself and your career, briefly. Yeah. Hearing you read the different things that I do, makes me understand why sometimes people ask me if I’m not exhausted all the time. Because it sounds like a lot. It is a lot, but it all very much makes sense to me in my head. You know, I think ultimately, I’m a storyteller. I’m a storyteller whether it’s in journalism and media, entertainment, as an actor and filmmaker, and within sociopolitical advocacy and activism. It’s all about how to understand the narrative, to dive deeply, especially into the most challenging elements, and then relay the message and craft it in a storytelling format. Understanding what is this story about? What is this issue, this topic about? What is the platform in which I’m sharing it and who is the desired audience, and then what is the effect that I want to have on the audience when they take ownership of the story, when they receive the story? So that’s the through line for me in everything. And I’ve been doing sociopolitical advocacy and activism for most of my life, because I just was aware that everybody needs to do that. Who is your family? Who’s your your circle of friends? Who is your community? What are the issues and the topics that matter to you, and what can you do to support them and advocate for them? And when you know how to advocate for yourself, your family, your friends, your community, you know how to advocate for the community at large and for your nation at large. And that’s something that I’ve always done. I found that as my career advanced in entertainment and media, so did my advocacy opportunities. All of a sudden, people wanted to hear from me more often. But in contrast, I became a much better advocate because I improved my own skills, talents, and craft as an actor, filmmaker and journalist. Awesome. Well, and speaking of your country, what do you actually, officially and unofficially do for Israel as far as social media messaging, any public speaking? Well, my country, I have two countries. I’m a citizen of the United States and of Israel. I’m born and raised in the United States and also spend a lot of time in Israel. Most of my family is in Israel, and I was raised with that great pride of understanding what it means to be a dual citizen. So my socio political advocacy is not solely focused on Israel. It’s also focused on the United States. Because I proudly recognize that I’m a citizen of two countries that struggle to maintain the democracy that they do and are talked about an awful lot around the world, for better or for worse. So my answer, what do I do officially and unofficially? I advise dozens of political and social and community-based organizations in the United States and Israel. So I get brought on as an advisor, as a consultant, as a contractor. When I come in as a speaker or a workshop leader, or if there’s specific initiatives that I’m involved in. So, I collaborate with these different organizations. I don’t officially work for any government, I don’t work for the U.S. government, and I don’t work for the Israeli government. But I partner with them on initiatives where they realize that who I am and what I do is beneficial to advance them, their organizations, and their initiatives further forward. Thank you. Well, speaking of all that work you’ve been doing, what do you think......I mean, this topic obsesses me. What do you think Israel is doing well and not so well in terms of public relations since October 7th of 2023? Well, I recently had a meeting with the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, and I addressed this topic specifically, and I actually asked him almost, almost exactly the same question that you just asked me, because I also then followed up and said, Israel very much is failing in the PR war. So are the Jewish organizations internationally that are supposed to represent the Jewish people. We are losing the PR war and it is very ridiculous. Why are we losing this PR war when we have so much information? And one of the big problems is there are only 15.3 to 15.7 million Jews in the world. Meanwhile, there are 2.4 billion Christians in the world, 2.2 billion Muslims in the world, 1.3 to 1.5 billion Hindus in the world, 585 million Buddhists in the world. And I can continue through that list. The numbers are against us. So when we try to mobilize the Jewish community, we’re still such a small people to mobilize and get our message out, when there are other people who don’t like us. Well, the people who don’t like us are greater in numbers than us very significantly. And when they wish to impart a message onto the world, especially on social media and media, they just have more people who are active in it. So when I speak with political and organizational leaders who are Jewish and very active in representing the Jewish people, Israel, Zionism, and even just our values, I talk about this. And so many of them say what the Prime Minister said to me just a couple of weeks ago, where “we wish that there was somebody who could put a lot of money into this and really do a better job.” And my answer is “you, why aren’t you?” Or to them I said,“why aren’t they doing a better job?” Because we know that the Israeli military is very strong, and the IDF, and especially the Air Force, are known for being very brilliant and strategic, even though they massively failed, obviously, on October 7th and before October 7th, 2023, which is a failure that’s going to be explored for a long time. So we know that the military is very strong, but the PR basically sucks. They’re failing in a PR war. So why are they failing? Because we were very sensitive in how we were sharing information of proof—videos and photos of people who are victimized— because we care about the victims, we care about their families. We don’t want to put information out there. So, the Wild West of social media will take and utilize these photos and videos, which will just increase the trauma of those who are traumatized. Well, you know what, with full understanding of that, and I’ve been in the trauma space leading workshops and speaking and going through my own PTSD and CTSD, as I call it, because we don’t have a post traumatic stress, is, yes, we must be sensitive to that. But, on the other hand, if we don’t share this information, we’re going to be too late to the game of PR. And once somebody’s mind is set, it’s very hard to change their mind. So if we’re late to showing how Jews and Israelis of all faiths and ethnicities have been and continue to be targeted and victimized, then they’re just going to remember what Pallywood showed them. What the Gaza Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas, is sharing. And at first, soon after October 7th, media around the world was sharing the information that was being shared by Hamas, a recognized terrorist group that violates, human rights on a daily basis. But media was listening to their information and sharing it as fact. And then media backpedaled and kept saying, well, according to the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, according to the Hamas-run, you know, Gaza works industry, whatever it is that they were saying, they started to say, according to the “Hamas-run…”, but then they stopped doing that again. Most people in the world are useful idiots who don’t have a lot of information and are easily manipulable. And that is how Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and these other Islamist groups have been able to manipulate feeble minds that don’t have a lot of information. And I’m not saying that in a way to be insulting of those who aren’t experts on the Middle East, and radical Islam, and the history of Israel, and the Jewish indigeneity, and other indigenous peoples to the region and all of these topics. But people who don’t have a lot will see a photo or a video on their device, and that’s all they need to see. So, that’s a very long-winded answer to is Israel succeeding or failing? Israel very much is failing in the PR war. People like me who rise up and do activism are doing as much as we can, yet there’s still a lot more that needs to be done, and we’re still failing. But where we win is that we’re optimistic. We believe that we can succeed in creating a better future. It’s why I oftentimes say that I’m short-term pessimistic, but long-term optimistic. It’s going to get worse. We’re going to see worse things in our societies around the world due to this battle against radical Islam. But I do believe in a brighter future, and that’s why I do everything I do. Well, that was a mouthful, and thank you for that. It was a lot. That was not very you know, with all my media training, I need to be able to speak shorter. No that was okay. You mentioned the term Pallywood. I don’t want to get into it here because we’re going to have a whole episode on it, and actually we’re going to have a two parter because we’re going to have people arguing that Pallywood exists and that it’s, you know, there’s sort of some fake imagery and then arguing opposite to that. And I think it’s important to hear a discourse around that. You know, I just want to acknowledge that you talk about the social media and all the activism campaign you’re doing. There’s people who think Israel is all the things that people accuse it of. An apartheid state and colonialist, and now committing genocide, and so on……who will say that’s all Hezbollah, and it’s, you know, you blame Hamas, but it’s also the IDF is also......I’m just noting that there’s those arguments and, those are hard to, come out from under because, to your point, you know, when people’s minds are made up, they’re made up. I also want to note that, within Israel, there’s a good community of people that are very much criticizing the government in Haaretz every single day. You can read and you can look at certain people’s feeds on social media. So it’s interesting. It’s complex, and it definitely feels like Israel is losing the PR war. And I definitely wish it would spend more effort, in that space. But I get it. It’s a tough battle. Well, you know, for you as a masterful storyteller, as a person who, Orly, not only are you a great storyteller, but you help other storytellers tell their stories. And with your understanding of how to run a business, your expertise as a lawyer, you know, you’re bringing all of these things into it, where you’re able to also have that......Wow, I’m thinking in Hebrew all of a sudden... You’re able to have that, what is it the 3000... 30,000ft view? 40,000ft view. I think it’s 30,000. I think it’s meant to be like you’re on a plane. Right? So you’re able to look at it from afar, but then really get deep into it. Even though we have all of these politicians and political governmental organizations, I think that they really are not able to extract themselves. As I walk towards my bookshelf and understand how to look at things from afar, they look at things so closely, and the more work I do within governmental affairs, both in the United States and Israel, the more I realize how exhausting governmental affairs actually is. I thought that I saw the biggest egos in and throughout my work in the entertainment industry. In government, they’re a different league. And to tell somebody, even when I’m hired as an advisor or consultant, can sometimes be very, very challenging. And that’s when I put on my director hat, my producer hat, my coach hat, and understand how to relay a message to them the way they want to hear it. And when you recognize that you’re speaking with somebody who has a very significant ego, then sometimes you need to give them that ego stroking to relay that message. Now, let me not only put that focus on actual politicians and government and organizational leaders. We’re seeing that throughout the activist space, especially the performative activists, the people who are walking around and marching with the sign and think that they’re doing something to change the world. But meanwhile, they don’t have the information and they don’t know anything beyond the placard strategy. If it rhymes and if a sloganeering slogan can fit on a sign, then it must be true. And they don’t know anything beyond that. So when I engage with people like that, I also recognize that they have this massive ego and they’re responding emotionally to something that they want to change, but meanwhile they don’t have the information. So how do we tap into those minds and souls and give them that information in a way that they can learn and then do something with? That’s what I really try to do beyond being an entertainment, an entertainer, a motivator, an advisor, an activist, I feel like I’m an educator. How to impart the information to help coach people, to be better activists, to be better citizens of the world. And that’s a very, very, very challenging task. Indeed. Well, hopefully we’re helping you do that. With this. Although I know I’m going to get accused of platforming you and not someone who thinks differently, but we’re trying to do it. You know, it’s interesting. I just have to chime in and say with Peaced Off!, it was so hard to get off the ground. And I’m very focused on that center space and really facilitating dialogue, and having people who think differently hear the other’s perspective and keep exchanging so that there is continuing education, and that matters to me a lot. So, I mean, you say you’re......do you feel that you’re more of a moderate centrist? Well, I’m trying to facilitate that dialogue. And I think that I don’t want to even label myself politically, but I think that my nature is to want to hear everything on all the sides and reconcile the information and try to find more common ground between peoples of every side. So I agree with you. I feel the same exact way. And that’s how I realized that I’m a moderate centrist. I used to think that I was much more left leaning. I used to be very active in the progressive movement, until I realized that so many people around me within the progressive movement weren’t really progressive and were what I started to call regressive or faux-gressive. Where the progressive values weren’t for everybody. I’m an inclusion activist practicing radical acceptance……obviously, I’ve said that line a thousand times… and it means I believe that everybody has a seat at the table. But there are are limitations to that. Everybody has a seat at the table. As long as you’re not trying to murder, to kill, or to practice erasure of somebody else at the table. It’s the same way that I approach free speech. I believe in freedom of speech for all people, unless that speech is hate speech, which calls for the death and the destruction of other people. Which could happen on any side. And I’m totally with you. And as long as you’re willing to actually sit at this table and be polite and respectful and not say someone else who is not a hate monger can’t sit with you. And that’s what I find so disturbing about this conflict, is the lack of willingness to listen. But let me get through my, I have more questions for you. I have questions for you too. Oh my goodness. Uh oh, we’ll never be finished. Well, you know, we met, in person, at the Sundance Film Festival, 2025. But we knew of each other. Of course. Of course. I’ve been working with The Film Collaborative before. And Jeffrey Winter, who runs our festival division. I know you were in touch with him a lot. And he’s our Co-Executive Director. I should honor him with his honorific. He is honorific. He really is. Let me tell you, you had a lot of compliments about him. So, when it comes to the independent film community, the festival space, and awards and all that stuff, I mean, I know I have my own thoughts, but, what comes to your mind with regard to Israel and anything Jewish? And the Israel Palestine issue? What are you seeing? What are you thinking about in that space? I’m finding that the entertainment industry very much is trying to cater to what is the most popular hashtag, and the fact that #FreePalestine is a much more popular hashtag than, Free the Hostages or #BringThemHome. We’re facing a massive issue where we’re seeing that so many of these film festivals and spaces within the entertainment industry are platforming the “pro-Palestinian,” and I am putting that in quotation marks. They’re platforming the pro-Palestinian narratives more than the “pro-Israel” narratives. Again, I’m using quotation marks purposefully, and that’s a problem. We’re seeing the deplatforming of Jews, of Zionists, and of Israelis. That’s a very dangerous thing. That’s something that should not be happening within our entertainment industry that’s supposed to be inclusive of all different types of stories. And I think it’s due to the problems that I witnessed myself as an actor, and as a filmmaker, but also as a sociopolitical activist within the progressive spaces, within the DEI initiatives, that I also used to be very active with, where people started to have this sort of victimhood Olympics, or understanding which victimhood narrative are we going to focus on and tell all of the other victims to just wait in line. Well, you know what? Victimhood doesn’t wait in line. It all happens at the same time. People’s narratives don’t happen one at a time. That’s the complexity of humanity. There’s so many stories that are happening at the same time. And what I’ve witnessed, is when Jews, Israelis, and Zionists are presenting their works, there are protests against them by people who wish to silence them, to erase them, and to kick them out of whatever platform, whatever experience. But in contrast, when we’re seeing Palestinian Muslim Islamist voices being shared, you know, we will maybe even go and see it so we can say that we saw it and we’re not silencing people or trying to stop their right from presenting something. Now, I’m saying this in a very, us-them sort of framework, and it’s definitely not a binary situation. It’s not a black and white thing. It’s a messy gray area. But that’s one of the big problems. I do not believe in erasing somebody’s identity or erasing somebody’s narrative. I do believe in the importance of sharing facts and truthful information. That’s part of the problem. The entertainment industry is a platform for sociopolitical advocacy. We share narratives in a way that politicians and journalists can’t. We’re able to touch the hearts and the minds of people in ways that other people can’t. That’s the magic of storytelling. And if we continue to allow these film festivals and people throughout the entertainment industry to share specific narratives and completely warp the truth of what is really happening, then we’re practicing historical revisionism right in front of our eyes. I totally agree with you. I just want to go on record saying that, and I’m going to make another effort that I already did after I witnessed this happening in the beginning of 2025. And actually, what am I talking about? In all of 2024. And I’m going to really push for that kind of more equitable and true DEI representation because really it’s not okay. Now, I totally agree with you. Okay, so speaking of movies, though, and we have to be a little bit more brief in our answer. I know, I’m talking too long. I’m so sorry. It’s okay. We want to hear your pearls it’s just people’s attention spans. No one’s going to listen to everything. So are there any films that you think just, you know, you’ve loved that relate to October 7th or have been released since? I don’t mean like you know,“Bad Shabbos,” whatever movie. I mean, like, related to the Israel Palestine issues related to October 7th that you want to talk about briefly. As briefly as I can. I think that the the films and the content about October 7th and the ongoing terrorism, I’m going to actually step back into the media space. I think there are news outlets that are sharing information that can affect our minds. I think it’s very important to pay attention to the work that’s coming out from honest reporting for Foundation for Defense of Democracies. The Middle East Forum, where I’m a a fellow, as well, and really listening to the content on social media that’s being created by people who are former hostages, by people who served in the IDF and are sharing their stories by Palestinians who are fighting against Hamas, against terrorism. And that’s where I’m going to answer the question, as opposed to focusing on the film side of things. I’m also very traumatized. I’m going to try to keep this short. I’m traumatized not only because of the personal stories of friends of mine and people I know who are deeply affected by the ongoing war. But to see this content is very difficult for me. The 45 minute video of actual Hamas- and Palestinian Islamic Jihad-filmed content that they filmed themselves, I think is very important for a lot of people to see. I agree, and I agree that it shouldn’t have been held back for as long as it was from the public. It was a mistake, even though I understand why that was done. So, now, you’re also a gay/queer person, so am I, you know, you do a lot of ads. What’s that? I said “hey girl, hey.” Hey! Well, so, you know, speaking of being queer, and as to the Israel Palestine issue, I mean, quickly, if you can. What do you have to say about that? I know, not to say the community is a monolith, right? There’s like, obviously a full spectrum of queerness, gay, lesbian, trans, everything. But just, you know, any thoughts? Yeah. We’re seeing the rise of Queers for Palestine, which is a group of people that keeps spreading. They started coming for me back in 2016 because they wished to silence me as they accused me of being obviously Zionist and openly Jewish. That was their accusation of me. And I said, thanks for seeing me. I mean, it’s still very true. We’re seeing a horrendous thing happening within our LGBTQIA+ community and space where there’s a silencing of Jews and Zionists by people who don’t really know what the Jewish narrative is about and what Zionism really means. We’re seeing people within the LGBTQ space who are supporting nationalist movements of people of the MENA region of Middle East and North Africa, and nationalist movement of our own LGBTQ nation. And yet not allowing or not wanting other peoples to be able to have their own nationalist movement. Nationalism isn’t a bad word. It’s a good word. It connects you to your nation, to your community. So we’re seeing such misinformation and disinformation spreading throughout the LGBTQ community, especially when it relates to Jews and Israel. Jews have always been part of civil rights, social justice and human rights movements, very much in the forefront. Israel is the only nation in the Middle East that protects LGBTQ rights. Where LGBT people serve in the government, serve in the military, are part of every part of society. It’s the only country in the Middle East that does that. It’s the country in the Middle East that also has asylum seekers, LGBT asylum seekers who go to Israel from other parts of the Middle East. So the way that people within our LGBT community kind of erase that or don’t focus on that is the antithesis to what our LGBT movement should be about. Here in the United States, our LGBTQ people have so many rights and liberties and luxuries, we need to start to make sure that we’re helping LGBT people around the world, from an LGBT perspective. And that’s what I’m not seeing enough of from our LGBTQ community. I hear that, you know, I know that people who would label themselves progressive left speak of a fear around right wing aggression toward them, you know, like all kinds of hateful, including violent, statements and acts. I so rarely hear people speak about it in reverse, but I think that you’ve experienced some threatening stuff. And so, actually, I didn’t intend to ask you this, but now I am going to because it kind of came a little implicitly a few minutes ago. You know, you’re obviously very “pro-Israel,” for lack of a better description, even with your centrist description of yourself. I don’t know, what happens online and in public spaces to you, anything critical, I mean, critical beyond the norm? Well, I receive death threats regularly because I dare speak out about what I believe in, who I am, and standing up for the values. When you say that I’m pro-Israel, I’m also pro-American. I’m also pro-democracy. I’m pro women’s rights and pro LGBTQ rights. You know, I consider that a pretty low bar. I support anybody who supports women’s rights and LGBTQ rights. That, I find that the people who support those things also support freedom of religion, equal access to education, you know, health care for all things like that. So my low bar is where I start. But I’m criticized for doing that. And when I speak, I have speaking engagements and workshops that I lead across the US, Canada and Israel and many times internationally, as well. I have to have security now because there are people who wish to silence my voice or upset that I’m there, which is so shocking. Why do I need to have security? I think it’s absolutely ridiculous. On social media, I get an insane amount of hate messages, as comments on, doesn’t matter what I’m posting, people will post“Free Palestine,” or “Jews should die,” or“Zionists,” you know, “should die,” or “go back into the gas chambers,” like horrendous things that get sent to me regularly as comments and as direct messages. It’s disturbing and it’s absolutely horrible. So anti-Semitism isn’t only a Jewish issue. Anti-Semitism is an everybody issue. Anybody who understands that anti-Semitism is anti-Jewish racism, that anti-Semitism is racism and is bigotry and is, hateful, should help us condemn it. Anti-Israel, anti-Zionist perspectives are anti-Semitic when they’re not anti-Semitism. I’m sorry, when anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitism is when it’s coming from somebody who believes that no people should have self-actualization, that no people should be able to govern themselves. Somebody believes that no people should be able to govern themselves, and no people should have a country that will protect them, then absolutely. Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism. If anti-Zionism only exists, and being against a national movement is only against the right of the Jewish people, that’s when it’s antisemitism. And we’re seeing this spread far and wide. I deal with it on a daily basis, and it’s nothing short of exhausting. And I agree with you. That’s why I agree with the 2010 anti-Semitism definition. You know, long before any Republicans had anything to do with the White House. I’ll double check the year. But anyway, and this is the one that Biden supports and I really agree with that. I digress, I have to ask you really quick, do you believe in a two state solution? And if you do, can you quickly describe it? I’ve always believed in a two state solution. I’ve wanted a two state solution. The only problem with that is the same thing that so many Israeli leaders have come to understand is that Israel has gone to the negotiation table time and time and time again, even before Israel was created as a state, the British and other international powers also tried to create an Arab and a Muslim state before that. The problem is in those negotiations, is Israel keeps negotiating with leadership that doesn’t want a two state solution. That’s a problem. How do you create a two state solution when people are chanting“From the River to the Sea,” which that expression means that from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, they believe that there should only be an Islamist state which bars Jews, Christians, and non-practicing Muslims. How do you have a two state solution while you’re trying to negotiate with people who don’t want you to have a country? What do the Christian Palestinians believe? And, you know, there are fewer of them, I’m just curious. There are fewer and fewer Christian Palestinians because of what’s happening within Gaza and within parts of Judea and Samaria, where Christian communities are being targeted as well by Islamist factions. So......my answer is yes, I want there to be a two state solution. What a dream. How do we get there? I really don’t know. Until there can be proper leadership of the Palestinian people who do want a democracy. That’s the only time we can have a two state solution. The problem is Hamas is a terrorist organization that’s subjugates its own people and its own Gazans in Gaza. That’s not a group that’s going to want them to have rights for themselves. And, we have people like the Palestinian Authority with Mahmoud Abbas, who also is a rapidly aging, older man who isn’t respected across the different Palestinian communities around Judea and Samaria, or, as the Jordanians call it, the West Bank. So they don’t have a leadership that wants to actually protect and develop them. They have leaders that steal most of the aid that goes in to help Palestinians and the leaders become very wealthy, and they’re not actually helping develop infrastructure in the Palestinian territories. How are we going to have a two state solution if it’s working in favor of these leaders who are terribly corrupt and becoming very wealthy? Yeah, and we’ve had some really impressive Palestinian guests on who’ve spoken to some of this and, I would love to have more. I mean, you use the phrase Judea, Samaria. Somebody might object to that and say,“It really shouldn’t be called that.” So I just, anyone who’s listening who wants to say other opinions about this matter, we welcome you. And then my last......I’m going to wrap up all my last thoughts and ask you one final question. This is a really, really difficult time for Israel. There’s a lot of division within the country it’s a difficult time for Israel’s reputation around the world. Somebody told me that American synagogues were removing the Israeli flag. That’s very painful to hear. You know, what does the future look like? What do you think is going to happen? We know what you hope for, but what do you really think is going to happen in the next, I don’t know, a year or two? I think we’re facing a terrible time when many Jews who aren’t as ingrained and don’t have as much knowledge about what it means to be Jewish from a peoplehood perspective,…about Jewish peoplehood, nationality, culture, ethnicity, religion, history, and indigeneity… that those people are going to continue to distance themselves from Jewishness. Why do people want to be part of a people who are constantly being attacked, who are seeing anti-Semitism and seeing people hate us around the world? Why would they want to continue to be part of this people? So, I fear that we’re going to see more people distancing themselves as opposed to diving deeper into what it means to be Jewish and understanding that Israel is ingrained in our peoplehood. The land, the region, and our indigeneity have been part of our peoplehood for so long. What we do need, and what I do hope, is that more people will become more Jewish, whatever that means to them, to become more knowledgeable and educated about the Jewish people. When we see, Reform and Reconstructionist synagogues, synagogues that I’ve been a member of my whole life, distancing themselves from Israel, is a very dangerous thing. I am an Israeli, I am pro-Israel, but I also criticize so many things about Israel. So many politicians and so many policies. I do the same as an American. I am pro-American, but there’s so many people I criticize. That’s because I believe in democracy. So I hope that more people will focus on their values, what is important to them, and then understand who are the people and which are the governments that support those values and then support those governments, people, and organizations. What a what a really great way to end. Toda raba, thank you so much. Toda raba. Bevakasha [you’re welcome]. It was really great having you. Yeah, I know your time is valuable, and Lord knows we’re not paying you. Likewise. I know you’re time is valuable and I appreciate everything you do. That’s something that I admire about you, Orly,a and anybody I’ve met through you or who works with you, is appreciating the challenge. You know, when there’s challenge, there’s change. When you’re challenged by something, it means that you can grow and improve towards something further, you know, towards a better future, whatever that means. So many people recognize a challenge and then try to distance themselves from it. And maybe that’s human nature, because challenge is intimidating. This is a challenging topic. We’re dealing with some very challenging times, and anybody who cares about the future needs to lean into the challenge, because through that challenge, we will improve ourselves and others. Absolutely. Wow. I feel like I’m talking like a fortune cookie or one of those... I’ll take it, I’ll take it. I love fortune cookies. You know, it’s been really great. Thank you very much. Thanks to everyone for listening, tuning in. And, you know, we’ll be doing a few more of these podcasts and eventually our Eventive event. So hopefully we see you for that one. Take care. This has been episode nine of Peaced Off!, a film and conversation series presented by The Film Collaborative with our guest journalist, filmmaker, actor and political advisor Yuval David. Peaced Off! is curated and executive produced by Orly Ravid. It is produced by Abe Gurko. Orly Ravid is our moderator for this episode. Our head of audio and video production is David Averbach, who also serves as series art director. You can find more about this podcast at getpeacedoff.com.