Why “Why Should Anyone Care?” Is The Most Important Question, with Chief Marketing Officer Roanne Neuwirth

On this episode of Executiveland, Elizabeth Freedman sits down with Roanne Neuwirth, former Global Chief Marketing Officer for BTS. They explore the evolving role of marketing in the C-Suite and how executives can drive credibility in an AI-driven world.

Key takeaways:

• How CMOs balance functional expertise, people leadership, and executive team membership
• Why strategic marketing is critical for differentiation, relevance, and value creation, especially in the age of AI
• Methods for guiding internal teams to prioritize, partner effectively, and champion business strategy
• The growing importance of executive visibility on platforms such as LinkedIn to strengthen personal and company brands
• Lessons from Roanne on building trust, strong client relationships, and impactful storytelling in consulting and professional services

Share this episode with marketing and executive leaders seeking to amplify their influence, drive growth, and elevate their team’s impact.

For more tools, insights, and strategies to lead with clarity and credibility, visit Elizabeth’s website, take the C-Suite Readiness Assessment, and subscribe to Executiveland on  Apple Podcasts and Spotify and so you never miss a new chapter of the unwritten playbook!

Past Episode Mentioned: Ep 2 - On the Right Side of History: Cognizant CEO Ravi Kumar on Democratizing AI

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• Forbes Column: https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethfreedman/
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hi and welcome to Executive Land. I'm Elizabeth Friedman, and this is where top leaders go off script to share straight talk and the unwritten playbook about life in the C-suite. For more ideas, visit East SuiteLeader.com. Now let's dive into today's episode. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Executive Land. And I am excited because today we have Rowann Newark, who is, as you will learn in just a minute, not just a brilliant chief marketing officer, but also friend, colleague, uh trusted advisor for me. And so, Rowann, I am thrilled you're here. I know we're in for a treat. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Well, thank you, Elizabeth. I'm excited to be here and talk about my favorite things with one of my favorite people.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I love it. And you know, we love to talk all things marketing. And Rowann, side note, you are the first CMO we've had on the podcast. Um, right? We've 25 plus episodes strong. And so an extra uh welcome for I'm honored to represent the function. We love it. Well, and Rowan, you know, I introduced you as CMO, and of course, that's really true. I know in your last role, you were the global um chief marketing officer for BTS. You have deep expertise in the B2B marketing space, professional services marketing in particular. But what am I missing here? How well should we be introducing you to our audience?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I think, you know, one of the things that I bring to bear as a marketer is, you know, how to go to market for companies that really value relationships, insight, and see sweet engagement. And so I get a lot of energy bringing sort of bringing the client conversation in when it comes to building, when it comes to building gravitas, when it comes to actually, you know, building revenue, and when it comes to really defining the value of the brand.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

And you know, you did that for me in so many ways, Rowan, because of course that's a huge part of the work I do. How am I having conversations with the market? And so you and your team would just provide so much guidance there. But maybe we can start there because I know this is a huge part of the work you do, right? Advising not just folks like me, CEOs, people in the C-suite who have to do this. And so, in the spirit of the unwritten playbook of the C-suite, what was your experience like having to sort of hold up the mantle of marketing? Maybe for folks that were listening, maybe for some that weren't, give us a little bit of a sense of what it's really like to be a CMO.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Well, it's a great question because I think uh, you know, I think it's probably there's aspects that are no different than being another somebody else in the C-suite. Um, and I think, um, but I I guess from a marketing perspective, it's, you know, there's a lot of challenges in being a CMO. I think one of the ones really is it's not well understood. It's not a particularly respected role, I think. Um, and I think that, you know, sort of the marketing teams also experience that in the business. And sort of as a CMO, you're kind of carrying the torch for your team, your function, but also for the company. And so it's sort of a lot on your shoulders when you're spending half your time trying to convince people that marketing is great while you're trying to, you know, sort of go to market, build the brand, drive revenue, support sales. And so um it's it's challenging, but it's also um it's fun. And I think, you know, I I I guess I sort of think, I think of there's kind of three when you're in the C-suite, I feel like there's three roles, and I think this is true, what I found to be true for myself. First, you're you're a functional leader, right? So you have to, you're an expert in my case at marketing. I bring the marketing lens, it's part of my job to um to communicate the value. Um, and then you're a leader of a team. And um, you know, for me, being a CMO, especially in like professional services company where the marketing function isn't what the company does, you know, the people on the team are sort of very separated from the client work, which I actually think in places where they're brought in, it's more powerful, but that's a separate conversation. Um, so you know, you're you're and so you know, you have to lead this team, set a vision, encourage them, create a career path in a in a function that often doesn't have a clear career path because that's not what the company does. So you have this first you're a functional leader, an expert, then you're a people leader, and that there's a lot on a CMO to really make marketing at your company something that's exciting for your team. And then your third big role is you're part of a leadership team. And so there's a whole agenda that the leadership team needs to do together to grow the business, create value, um, you know, sort of establish longevity and differentiation. So those three hats, I think, for any functional leader and for marketer, is are are really all of them are going on at once.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Oh yeah. Particularly at that C-suite level. And maybe Rowan, let's break each of those roles down. And I want to start with the role of you really leading marketing for an enterprise, for a large company. And for people listening, whether you work in professional services or other industries, how do we understand what marketing leaders are held accountable for, particularly at that C level? End of the day, what do chief marketing officers get paid to do? How are results measured?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

I mean, it's a great question. And I think the answer is it varies widely, and that's part of the challenge. So and I think it varies by industry. Um, you know, uh certainly, and then you know, B2B is very different than B2C. Um, and then B2B SaaS tech companies are very different than sort of professional services. So I think it's there's not a single answer. I mean, at the end of the day, marketing has to be part of the engine that drives revenue and creates value. So, I mean, everyone's sort of measured on that. But I think whether, you know, specific metrics and what um CMOs are expected to do really, really I've really seen it really differs. And so I think um certainly pipeline, you know, contributing to pipeline, whether whether marketing is held accountable for closed deals or not, again, depends a bit on the environment and how how um you know marketing, sales enablement, and bd work together, because it's different in every company. So I think the um sort of the that how it's measured really depends on where it sits and how and the relationship to sales. And I think in some companies it's it's joined at the hip. In other companies it's not. I think the places where it's not joined at the hip, it's a lot harder to actually drive revenue through the pipeline from the top of the funnel down through. Um, but I like to, I mean, the way I look at um at so at marketing is it's marketing is about one-to-many. It's about building, building the brand, creating, you know, creating the demand, driving interest, and all of that. And then once you start talking one-to-one, that becomes sales enablement and then business development. And so if you have kind of a tight chain of those three steps, then you know, everyone's accountable for their piece of the pipeline. But ultimately, I think sales and marketing together are are you know, should be held accountable for the bottom line.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah. Yeah. I can speak for myself, Rowan. Certainly in my business, it's my biggest light item. It's it's just critical. Um, and so that's why, you know, help us understand for those organizations where, and this may be frankly a rather dark and you know, depressing way to put it, but like we don't even have marketing in the organization. What would we be missing? What wouldn't happen if if marketing was not in that C-suite, was not driving results in the way that you've described?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

I mean, it's a great question. Um, and I think there's organizations that ask that. I mean, you know, from from my view, particularly uh in this world of AI, where um I think there's a lot of companies that don't particularly understand or care about marketing, think that you can just get, you know, get get a little AI engine to build some blogs and you'll be all set. And what you really miss is the differentiated voice. I mean, right now, differentiation um and relevance matter more than ever. And that that's not just for professional services. I mean, there's a million companies doing a million things. And the more everyone is relying on AI to talk about what they do and to sell their products and services, the noise is just getting louder and there's no differentiation whatsoever. And I'm seeing some interesting roll back around to um to, oh, I guess actually we need a human to figure out so who are we trying to talk to? Um, without marketing, you don't have anyone sort of defining, well, so who are we talking to? Are you just talking to everybody? Is everybody a buyer? If everyone's a buyer, your message is going to be diluted at best case scenario. Yes. And I think, you know, the other, you know, we're certainly seeing with AI that the idea of differentiation, of making sure you're talking to the right people and not selling everything to everyone is going to become even more critical uh as as the noise in the marketplace gets louder and as more people think they can do things themselves. So if you want to differentiate your product or service, uh you really need marketing and strategic marketing. You don't need a junior level email marketer to tell your story. You need someone that really can step back and understand where you've come from, where you're going, what what are your clients' challenges? Um, I think the other thing that I see it people miss when when they don't have marketing bringing in the voice of the customer, it's so easy to talk about yourself and your product.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

You know, you see we've had those conversations right now. Yes, you know, the sale, you know, salespeople that just just have to talk about how great their ideas are or the product is. And the fact of the matter is, you know, part of marketing's role is to get um experts and sellers to be able to say, why should anyone care?

unknown 11:31

Right?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Like you and I have had those conversations where you know we have an idea and it, you know, it's part of my role to say, so why does this matter to a buyer? Right. And if you don't have that, you're just gonna be talking at your buyers. And, you know, I mean, companies, you know, may I think if you have I think the the more the more you're the the higher the stakes of who you're selling to, the size of the deals, um and the the sort of the kind of the the the challenge of defining the value of what you do, the higher those are and the harder it is, the more you need marketing. Um because you know, think about like a tennis ball. I mean, marketing can do some really fun things about you know promotion and getting you to love your brand of tennis ball, but it's I mean there's not a lot of differentiation in one tennis ball to another. Maybe they're different colors, maybe there's a super new bounce technology, right? But but if you think about sort of you know big ticket, um, big ticket technology, big ticket consulting, um, you know, high like the um large large SaaS systems, you know, that if you you really need someone to come up with so what's the story that that an executive buyer is gonna care about? And if you don't have marketing, your story is gonna be led by product developers.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

And it's hard for it's really hard to define value without the marketing lens.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Oh, I I mean, I couldn't agree more. It just becomes such a critical uh element of how you run a business and everything that you said Roman. It's being able to really pinpoint your differentiated value, how that gets articulated, the way we weave in the voice of the customer, how we listen to our market to shape and drive current and future products and services. I mean, we can go on. There are so many reasons why this role not only must exist, but must play a prominent role within the organization, particularly given some of the other trends and themes that you were touching on. And so when you're let's talk about that one of the other aspects of the role you touched on, which is your own leadership over the function, sort of leading the team. So now we've got an organization that maybe has, like you and me, we get, we've drunk the Kool-Aid, we understand the value. Maybe you've got organizations where they don't know essentially how to partner well with marketing. How do you help your team help the organization partner effectively, particularly when maybe you've got an organization saying, well, I'd love to, I don't have time, or hey, great idea marketing, maybe in six months, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

So I love this because I mean, this is this is every this is like this is life every day, right? And and you and I have had conversations about this, and you yourself have always been a great partner. Um so I think you know, this some of this will resonate. I mean, I think that is the biggest challenge. Um, and part of it is, you know, part of it is helping to, you know, that part the the role of being the the the drumbeat that that establishes the value. That's why, like, that's why the the CMO is sort of the biggest face to the inside organization because that help helps to establish the credibility. So when the team goes out to partner, you know, there's some there's there's some gravitas behind them. So that's part of it. I think some of it is, you know, it's interesting. One of the things that I've also reflected on is in many ways a CMO, and I think this actually is true about other C-suite roles as well, is sort of a chain, you know, you have to know how to drive change and transformation because part of what you're talking about is getting people to change how they behave. You know, it's it's establishing creative uh credibility and then um you know, sort of making it exciting to partner.

unknown 15:45

Right?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

It's like how do you how do you get these busy executives to s to shift from, you know, I don't have time for you, to looking forward to kind of doing an interview with your team for a PR article, right? Or you know, spending an extra two hours working on the point of view with the marketing team, you know, on the team, because they're like, oh wow, you know, when you guys set in on that meeting, we thought about that point of view so differently. It really created, you know, a whole new way that we're gonna talk about this in the market, and we wouldn't have had that without you. I think so there's sort of there's being the being the face of it, there's also um one of the things, one of the ways that I've always sort of approached that change, change management challenge is finding you find some, you know, you find some excited people to try it with, right? You you know, you don't try to engage everybody at once. There's always one or two really great people who are dying to try something new, um, who you know really care about sort of going to market with a new point of view. I mean, I think some of the work that I you know did at BTS around sort of the business buyer segment, that team, those those business leaders, they really were committed to going to market with it to with this new client base. And so they were super excited. They're like, well, what like just tell us what we don't know and tell us how to help. Let's just do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

And so if you know, if you if you kind of target those and then you bring your team along so that they see, oh, okay, I understand. You know, you find you find the early adopters, you find the people that that are innovative, that want to try, and then you can, and then you have, you know, you get them to be your champion. And then you have the team see that, oh, okay, it's that's how you know you build. And and you, and I think patience, I mean, one of the things, and and I, you know, you know a number of the people on my team, and I spend a lot of time talking about the long game.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Um, and also I think the other the other piece that you have to do is help people understand what battles to fight and what battles not to fight.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Because what you're talking about, I mean, there's always battles and um, and you know, the with the skeptics, you know, and and and as you build credibility, there's also, you know, you after you've done this for a long time, you can much more readily assess which battles are gonna get you somewhere and which are just gonna waste your energy. And there'll be times when my team will say, Well, you know, why didn't you go after so and so for what they said? I said, Look, so this is what I'm trying to get out of this, whatever this is, whether, you know, we need to execute this campaign on X, and we need, you know, we need some really powerful content on X, Y, and Z to do that. And, you know, I know that if we go this route, we're gonna get that. That person is gonna be a detractor, but if we spend a lot of time trying to convince them rather than just moving, moving forward and getting something out of the marketplace, we're never gonna help drive revenue and we're never gonna move the needle. So I think there's also that, you know, guidance about when to fight, when not to fight, you know, and also uh a big thing is how to say yes and how to say no. And I think and I think actually C-suite leaders, you know, the whole thing about decision making, that's it's it's one of the I think I think people don't realize that before you get to the C-suite, how much of being a C-suite leader is about decision making. Tiny decision making, big decision making, accountability for the decisions, um and whether that's sort of within your function, across the leadership team, whether you're coaching and encouraging your C-suite peers on the question of decisions and accountability. And so I think that um that that really's important to help your team sometimes they can't make them, and sometimes they also they just need to learn how to make them themselves and and then providing the support. Um, because that's another piece that I see my role is is setting the bar high, but providing all the support that the team needs to reach that bar. Because you can't have one of the, you know, you can't do both. You have to do, I mean, you can't do one or the other, you have to do both.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

You you really do. And what you're giving us here, Rowann, is such a great playbook for marketing leaders, certainly, but really any functional leader that exists within an organization where all the things that you touched on, it's continuing to try to partner effectively, drive the value, recognizing again, we have competing priorities. And so I love the recommendation of, right, it's not about, you know, everything everywhere all at once, but let's find those pockets of the organization as a starting point, particularly it sounds like when we're piloting something new, early adopters. I think also the idea of right, how we are here to enable and support effective decision making at that executive level. And yet, you've and again, you're you're helping your team be able to do that, and you yourself have to be one of those decision makers. And I think you're right, it's decisions all the time. Although, you know, one of the things you said, I want us to come back to this saying yes and no. Tell us a little bit more about that. What did you mean there?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

So, well, you know, I mean, obviously, and I mean, one of the, you know, sort of what's ha what's interesting is as as you know, the the function starts to create momentum and people start to want to be part of it, which happens, you know, you know, when you do all these things right, you create some pull, just like you, just like marketing does externally for the company, it also works internally. Right. Um, and so you know, that and there's and there's always, you know, marketing is one of those functions, and I think this also. Goes to some of the challenge in the C-suite that everybody thinks they have an opinion on it. And you know, their grandmother watches the podcast and they come and tell you how to do the podcast differently. You know, their nephew sort of saw a TikTok video, so they said we should throw out that campaign and do a TikTok video. And you know, you have all this nonsense from the entire organization. And so, you know, on the one hand, you really want enthusiasm, and the more people think about marketing, the better they're going to understand it and better support it and provide the expert sort of content to help the engine go. But it also means that you can get too many, you know, there's too many things that people want. Some of them are really stupid, but you can't say they're stupid, or certainly more junior people on the team can't say they're stupid. Um, I mean, I could say they're stupid, but they can't. You know, there are these meetings with important people, and um, and so there's kind of this, so there's but on the other hand, it's you have to be so careful not to become the no function. And so it's sort of the, you know, figuring out how I mean I uh one of the things that I always do when there's too many of these things is okay, so which of these actually is tying back to what the business strategy and the CEO are caring about right now? Like which of these things actually ties to that? Um, and it and um if they all do, then you have a you know you have a separate issue of sort of how to fix them. But I think that that sort of teaching that, you know, teaching the lens of think about does this just matter to this person or does this matter to the business? And and how to assess that. And um, you know, that's an important skill to kind of teach people, and it also gives some transparency. And then when you say to someone, well, so we can't work on this project right now for you, because you know, the AI implementation rollout is happening, and you know, that's a big priority for the business. So your you know, your idea for this really cool article on X that doesn't have anything to do with that, we have to table that.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Um but but there's also, and as you know, you know, I mean, I think one of the interesting things that you and I have often talked about, just about leadership in general, is this learning the sort of teaching of learning and then teaching the next the next group how to say yes and no in a way that is um productive. Yes so like you can say, you know, um no not right now, no not me, you know, no not this, um, and and so there's that side of it. And then there's the just helping helping find you know finding the the backbone to set the priorities against. Because I think because it's I think it sometimes it's hard for and I think this is true on any function, whether it's HR, whether it's IT, you know, you have your functional priorities. Like these marketers, you know, the team's really smart. My team's amazing. I know they're amazing, they're there because they know what they're doing, but they don't always, you know, things that are a priority from a marketing perspective, and even things that we know work really well, we might have to set aside because the business has different priorities. And sometimes those priorities aren't right. And that's what another interesting challenge on that I've encountered in sort of in the C-suite is when it's clear that there's something amiss with the big priorities, and you know, sort of weighing the responsibility, like that's that's a lot of responsibility to just sort of weigh, like, so how much do I let that filter down? How much do I try to influence it? How much do I let it go? Um, so I think that, you know, that's another way to help the team kind of build those relationships. And then I just the other thing I just think is, you know, in many ways, I mean, my uh the my first 10 years of my career were in in consulting as a consultant, you know, client-facing consultant. And I think it's one of the best ways to build a career, whether you want to stay in consulting or not, because it teaches you about everything you just about everything you need to know. And one of the things it teaches you is around, you know, sort of the client focus and the shoes, you know, putting yourself in the shoes of the people that you're working with. And in some ways, internal functions are act kind of like consulting firms.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Um and that, I mean, I think, you know, I think the problem it's really a partnership. Um, I think it's it's not a vendor relationship, it should be a partnership relationship. I think sometimes marketing and IT and HR get treated like they're vendors, but it's really um, you know, if you think about your role on the marketing team, you know, maybe you're the content creator and trying to build some really powerful blogs and external articles, you're partnering with those experts. And, you know, you have an expertise, they have an expertise, neither of you knows how to do what the other does. And so your partnership is what creates the value. And and helping the team learn how to do that well and be confident to do that is part of, I think, part of the role. And again, I think that's true whether it's IT, um, whether it's HR, whether it's finance.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

So interesting, the consulting element. And of course, Rowan, you know, I majority of my career has been in consulting. And, you know, it's always interesting when you're partnering with an organization, they've got a set of objectives or priorities, and you're sitting on the other side thinking, um, you know, you have questions about those, right? You respect your client, you respect the company, but you're wondering about some of those and what's the way to voice that given the role you're there to play. And so that certainly came to mind as you were describing, I think sometimes what the dynamic can feel like, particularly if you're wearing a functional role and you know, you've got a perspective and a point of view. But I think it would be easy. And of course, the key difference is you are a member of that team, you are part of the organization, but those, let's not pretend there are those sort of challenges to navigate. And how do you voice those things when when you're in a functional role at that C-suite level? It's a little bit of a different dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Um it really is. And, you know, and I think and I think the answer, the answer different, you know, one of the I was reflecting a little bit of this, and I think, you know, one of the things that is so uh an interesting fact to think about is, you know, not every C-suite is the same. And so what might work in one C-suite environment is not gonna work in another. So there's sort of first there's kind of how you were before you got to the C-suite doesn't necessarily get you there, but there's also, you know, CEOs are vastly different. Um, and how they want to work, their ability, their leadership abilities and skills are vastly different. And so um and the kind of environment that a CEO creates with the leadership team, you know, I've seen the gamut, so have you.

unknown 29:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Right. I mean it's and so I think that it um I think that the answer um the the one thing I've learned is that um sometimes sometimes you need to just let it go. And even when you know it's not right, and even when you see things hurtling down a path that is leading to destruction, there's a point at which there is zero appetite or ability to hear. And if that's the case, I mean I think the hardest thing is sometimes having to let it go.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

That's I think that's harder than speaking up, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah. It really does come down to that so often, Rowan, and right back to your earlier comment. What what are the hills to die on? Where do you just you really do have to walk away and play the bigger game, the longer game, as you say. And you know, to your other point, uh every C-suite really is different for all the reasons we've discussed, including even, is there a chief marketing officer who sits at that level? And presumably, if there is, right, we want to invite in the view and perspective of marketing, for example, on the team. But once again, the culture of the organization of the team drives so much of those types of decisions. Although one of the things that I've seen you talk about, and certainly, you know, everyone should check out Rowan's LinkedIn profile because you've got some great videos and thought leadership and talking about just the space of marketing today, because of course it is so dynamic, particularly with the, you know, just what AI has done to disrupt even just how we think about leveraging the tool. But beyond that, Rowan, the role of even CEOs in marketing, their organizations, having a voice and a presence. And so curious about what you're seeing there, some of the things that you've been discussing online, what would be helpful for us to know, regardless of what size organization we're in, even our role that maybe we should be thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Well, you know, it's it's a great question. And I think what what is interesting is um sort of what have I what I've observed uh in part, I think, driven, well, actually driven very largely by what's happening with AI search, the LLMs, you know, there's um first of all, with all the AI noise, having a differentiated point of view is now more important than ever. So things like quote, content or thought leadership are actually um very serious and very elevated in terms of how you're going to differentiate. And what is also very interesting is that these the LLMs are what they're doing is they're really they're searching particularly LinkedIn, interestingly, um, in terms of to really to test the credibility. Um so they're and and what they're doing is so when they when they're going to include your company in the search uh for particular ideas or or challenges or product or services, they're going to be scraping things like LinkedIn to not only look at what the company's saying, but actually what's happening is they're looking at what the leaders are saying and how active the leaders are on LinkedIn and what those leaders are saying about not just about puppies and and products, but are they actually credible thought leaders too? And this is a really interesting shift that actually then raises the raise seriously raises the bar for CEOs and the rest of the C-suite to be active on LinkedIn. I mean, for a long time, I've seen C-suite leaders sort of ignoring the need to be out there. And um there, you know, I've worked with some CEOs that um one of the CEOs, you know, that we have in common in our past, she really understands kind of the role of the CEO as sort of also chief thought leader. And um, but there's a lot of CEOs and other C-suite leaders. I mean, this meant you know, CFOs, CTOs need to worry about this too. But they need to be out there and visible as credible experts also. And not, it's it's no longer just about their own career or profile, it's actually impacting how their companies are found via um AI search. And one of the things that is is sort of quickly becoming clear in the data is AI search is a small part of how your company's found, but the conversion of people that find you that way is dramatically higher. Oh. So um, so it's becoming, so it's like, you know, I mean, it's again this, I think there's this whole move to niche everything, you know, niche services, niche products, targeted, you know, clear. Um, and CEOs that are sort of not understanding that they actually need to be out there too, are um, and this is not, I mean, this is across the board. This I think it you know matters even more for smaller founder-led firms, obviously, because um with a you know, founders kind of are the voice of their company. But I think it even matters in large companies now because it that's how that's how the company is being is being judged and found. And and I think that in what's interesting is so it's a big expectation. I think it's also a place where those C-suite leaders need to kind of understand that marketing is their, you know, can be their savior in this in this case.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Right? Because it's you know, I mean, not everyone's gonna know how to do that, you but you have to be smart enough to ask for help.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yes. That's right. Well, and so Rowan, when you think about someone in the C-suite listening to this who wants to be searched and found in the way you're describing, right? Provide that level of visibility um and just awareness that their their company um offers. What would you suggest to them? Is this just about posting ideas on LinkedIn? What could that look like?

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Well, I think, you know, it's all of those things. And again, this is something it's worth getting some help on, but I think it's there's, you know, what the uh and also all the algorithms on LinkedIn have changed dramatically too. And so they're um since November they did some real shifting around and they're really looking for insights, ideas. You know, it's not just commenting this, you know, great post, it's saying something about the post that indicates what you know about. Um so there's you know, it's it's it's interacting with others, it's posting, you know, video content. I mean, I mean, I think Elizabeth, you're a you're a poster child for all the right things to do on LinkedIn. Um, and but it's but I mean it's just so interesting. So if you know, if if a if a CEO started sort of doing a little weekly video state of the, you know, her her perspective on the state of the market or the state of whatever that is connected to what her clients care about, those kind of things like they have massive impact. Um and so the other thing is um it's you know it does have to be thoughtful and it also has to be relevant. I mean, I've also seen the rise of um, especially there's some younger founder CEOs that I see that are they they're all over this, the sort of the podcasting idea or the you know weekly video interview thing. But they're kind of they're sort of talking about all sorts of random things that are of interest to them, and that's great, but we it's it's not relevant. So everything has, you know, so like if you think about again back to you being the poster child, you know, you your all of your content is entirely relevant and related to your message and how you help people. So, you know, I I I was, I mean, I was there was a um CEO of a um it was like an advisory firm, a leadership advisory firm, and he was interviewing somebody who does content creation at a marketing agency. And I mean, that's personally interesting to me because that's my world, but like what does it have to do with leadership? It had the the episode had zero to do with leadership, it had zero if I were a client of this person, I wouldn't have understood. Like, so what am I what am I supposed to take away? Like, how is I I don't understand why you're talking about content. Um, so I think that's another piece um for executives that um I mean the the the scary side is that you have to say something, you have to say it often, but the less scary side is that you know you know your business, right? You know your business, you know your clients. You know, really nobody in the C-suite should be uninformed about what their clients care about. Even if they're like even you know, even if you're a CHRO, a CTO, CFO, you you know, you should be up on your clients.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Oh my god, yes, Rowan.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

And so talk about those. Like you can talk about those. You're you're a senior leader, you can talk about leadership and connect it back to what your clients care about.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah. Oh wow. I mean, all of this is so important. And it really starts with, I think, the idea of you know, the role of executives as marketers and how does that look for them? But how important that is now becoming even more so, to your point, with the right advent of AI, particularly in the search world, to their companies. And so companies that don't um really create, I think, a level of expectation, maybe accountability across that senior executive leadership, and then have a chief marketing officer and a marketing team to provide guidance, that partnership leadership to guide that activity. It's like at your peril because you and I, of course, know companies where they do understand this, they readily embrace this. Oh, yeah. Rowan, I was thinking about um Ravi Kumar, CEO of Cognizant, who is on this podcast. He's one, you know, for those that don't know, you know, certainly to check out his work and the work of his outstanding marketing team, because to your point, it's all very aligned. And it's it's very much in service of really being able to illuminate the important work they're doing, their point of view and perspective in AI. And oh, by the way, they're not the only game in town, but I, you know, there's such a commitment to I think getting that story out and Robbie's commitment that I just see a real differentiated, highly effective approach there. And so it's just an example, I think, of what you've been highlighting here.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

And and he's a great example too, because it's, you know, he's so um, well, he's an I mean he's a very engaging human being, and and and that's you know, he's so he's he's very skilled, but it's also so clear about his passion and how he really, how he really understands it. You absolutely know when you listen to him, watch him, that he totally understands what matters to his clients. He totally, you know, and and he really has a vision and sort of a really authentic sense of how to improve their lives. And so it's very compelling, you know. I mean, it's all very aligned, but it, but he sort of, because he is able to combine right message with like his his personal passion and conviction, and then some you know, like really tight, insightful information, that little trio makes that content so uh impactful.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yes. Oh, yes. And I mean, we've had a number of CEOs and leaders on the podcast, more to come, who I think also model this. And not all are in the C-suite, by the way, Rowan, but I think they are appreciating um the more that I can bring in to your point these different elements and then put them out in the world in a way that is helpful, that is of service. It benefits my organization, it benefits me, it helps people see the incredible value we're creating, whether you're a potential customer or an employee. It's like, right? It's just the so what of why we exist and why we do the work we do. And so being able to see leaders model how we communicate that so what and convey it, it's not just important for the market, but for your own people internally.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

It's you know, actually, like and I think it actually to, you know, if you're thinking about sort of what you know, what it takes to be in the C-suite, I mean, absolutely, you know, if you're someone who's out there building your personal expert brand, that is not gonna hurt you.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

That's exactly right. It's not gonna hurt gonna hurt people. Yes, and good timing, Rowan. You know, certainly uh we've talked a lot about shifts in the market. We know, right, we've talked about how senior leaders really can advocate for themselves and their careers. So this is also so helpful on a personal level. And maybe on that note, Rowan, before we wrap up, talk to us a little bit about sort of personally what's going on with you. What are you looking forward to? to where are you focused next in your work?

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Well so you know it's a great question because I think I mean as I reflect on kind of marketing right now it's you know it's in some ways it's a really depressing time but in other ways it's very energizing because I think what what I'm seeing quickly emerge from the AI tsunami is that actually the things that make me really energized and the things that I know matter so that's client relationships, smart great insights, um you know being able to tell powerful stories and then communicate them in the way that matter and then building the engine to do that. Like that absolutely matters now more than ever. And the piece I think that I'm most excited about is this whole thing around how trust has bubbled up to be one of the most important things to differentiate brands, companies and leaders in this AI age. And so it makes me very hopeful about a a better world. And also you know I see that kind of my perspective the you know the perspective I bring to to marketing is one that's going to um to continue to be important in really differentiating what you know what companies are doing and how they can reach their clients. So you know I'm in myself sort of I love I particularly love working with um advisory and consulting companies that you know have are sort of founder led and are looking for their next level of growth and I think you know there's such an aptitude and a um appetite out there from a lot of those leaders to so you know how do we do this? And and and it's a great time to you know leverage AI for the volume but lean into the things that have always differentiated companies with their clients and differentiated leaders with their people and so I I'm hopeful and excited about kind of what what's coming next for the world with uh you know with AI and beyond.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

You said it Rowan well I know the difference you've made in so many organizations and leaders and um just reminding all of us me included right to believe in the value of the message and then let's really try to get it out there. And I I just don't want to leave this conversation without underscoring just the work that you and your team always did to be that encouraging voice. You know and the truth is you know we're talking about marketing and the importance of getting out inside companies but the truth is in today's environment we want the best ideas the ideas that help the world to be the ideas that we get to hear. And so marketing helps. And so for all the reasons we want the great marketing people to be wildly successful. And so Rowan I just can't thank you enough for being with us today. Listen everyone you got to check out Rowan's um incredible LinkedIn profile. Speaking of LinkedIn Rowan and so we'll link to that in the show notes but thank you for today's conversation and all the ideas about marketing you shared with us in the audience.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

And thank you so much Elizabeth I mean I think the you know you're you really sort of exhibit kind of the kind of partner the kind of leader the kind of founder and CEO that that is able to drive so much value from the partnership uh with marketing. And so uh you're you're an example that others should take and I think you're you know a shining example of of what to do right.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

So I love it. I'll remember that one Rowan thank you so much thank you thanks Elizabeth well that's all for today in ExecutiveLand. Thanks for listening and if you're looking for more check out my website eSweetleader.com where you'll see all kinds of free resources and take the free executive readiness assessment. It shows you exactly where you're strong and where to focus next in your own leadership. And don't forget subscribe to this podcast so you never miss an episode. I'll see you next time in Executive Plan