Pioneering Health Wisdom With Dr Benjamin Zacherl

✨ Hello, I’m Fran, Your NLP & Business Coach. I’m exploring a wide range of business ideas and money-making paths, with practical takeaways you can apply.

In this episode, I’m interviewing Dr. Ben, a pioneering health transformation expert with over two decades of experience helping thousands of patients achieve lasting health breakthroughs.

As the creator of the Iron Clad Immunity Method, he uniquely blends ancient wisdom with cutting-edge science to target the root causes of chronic health issues. His innovative approach goes beyond conventional medicine by emphasising the powerful connection between the mind and body, inspiring lasting change and true wellness.

You can connect to Dr. Ben and the Iron Clad Immunity in the following ways ⬇️

🎥 YouTube -  @ironcladimmunity6910  
https://www.facebook.com/ben.zacherl
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ironcladimmunity
https://www.ironcladimmunity.com
📩 Email - info@ironcladimmunity.com

Find me at @ www.melancholymentor.com

* As a coach, I listen without judgment, understanding that others views may differ from my own.

#nlpcoach #inspiration #motivation #healthtransformation

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Fran 0:00

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Melancholy Coaching Podcast. I'm Brian, your host and NLP coach. Join me as I interview spiriting business owners and self-improvement seekers about their experiences while delving into personal development, motivation and strategies for overcoming challenges. Let's ignite our creative potential together. Hello everyone and welcome to the Melancholy Coaching Podcast. I'm Fran, your NLP coach, and I'm excited to introduce an empowering guest, a pioneering health transformation expert who has helped thousands of patients across two decades achieve lasting health breakthroughs. Creator of the Ironclad Immunity Method, Dr. Ben combines ancient wisdom with modern science to address the root causes of chronic health challenges. His approach transcends conventional medicine by focusing on the mind-body connection, helping patients reverse conditions like diabetes, autoimmunity and inflammatory disorders, which sounds incredible. Gifted speaker and passionate educator, Dr. Ben leads an international community of ironclad warriors, which also sounds very exciting by the way, who have achieved what they once thought impossible. His work is driven by a simple yet powerful belief. Transformation begins in the mind and the body follows. Which I thoroughly agree with, by the way. I think that's amazing. So Dr. Ben, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's uh it's an honor to be uh to be here.

Fran 1:46

It's an honor to have you here.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Thank you.

Fran 1:50

I'd like to uh just begin by asking you a question, like a burning question of mine.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Okay.

Ancient Practices Meet Modern Science

Fran 1:57

So your your ironclad immunity method, so this uniquely blends ancient traditions with modern scientific insights in research. So could you give us an example of an ancient practice that you've incorporated? You know, and if you're able to kind of, you know, how does it work alongside the uh the scientific understanding?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, that's a that's a fantastic question. I probably the best example is that the mind is where most of our problems start with, right? Let's let's let's think about it from the perspective of a lot of inflammation, the really probably the worst diseases of modern day society, say heart disease, a lot of data and science about cancer as well. A lot of the addictive things from alcoholism to uh food addictions, if you look at obesity rates, all these kinds of things, how they're tied to cancer, all that stuff comes from the same sort of problem. And I think we all know what this problem is. It's like, well, maybe some of us. Some of us are are just maybe born with amazing discipline. I certainly wasn't. And it's not just having one ice cream that gets you in trouble, it's having like 10 a day for over-exaggeration, right? It's not having one beer, it's having two 20, you know. So the the the interesting thing about it is it's really it's it's a willpower thing in a way. And and as an NLP practitioner and coach yourself, you understand how how our minds really create the experience for us and how it makes us feel and how we kind of live out of these programs, right?

Fran 3:36

Yeah. I believe that our our minds create high reality.

Meditation, Willpower, And Cravings

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Absolutely, right? So a lot of times what what what what we'll see in in Ironclad is the exact same meditative, maybe to answer your question more directly, the exact same meditative processes that you have to go through to do a simple meditation, or maybe even an advanced meditation, has a discipline component from for your mind. So let's say like a yoga nidra. If you're familiar with yoga nidra, it's a still. No? No, okay. Well, you know, just any like a zen meditation practice. You're sitting in a zen meditation and you get your body in a posture, you know, and you can even think of this to a degree of tai chi or some other sort of uh shigum kind of practice. You have to tell your body to stay, like a colleague mentor of mine, Joe Dispenses, says, you know, I'm gonna tell my body to sit like it's an animal and it's gonna listen, right? That simple body stay, don't move. If you have an itch, I'm not gonna scratch it. That simple mind ability to be able to do that in other meditation practices, but focuses on your breathing, all those types of things, build a part of your brain that Huberman talks about, uh, I won't get into the technical aspects of the neurology, but the part of your brain that allows you to be stronger in getting yourself to do something. So it's kind of a backdoor way using these different meditative practices at the right time to kind of trick people into getting willpower. So that that's it's a really interesting thing. Aside from that, being able to grow in willpower, you also get incredible reductions in the amount of stress that you have, how you feel stress-wise. Like we were just at this, I'll give you an example from our last week with our group. One of our amazing members, I asked her, I said, so when you tell yourself she she she she wants to eat sweet stuff, right? She likes that's that's one of her things. So you know, a lot of people have this, they eat one cookie and becomes another, and you know, then the whole bag's gone. And so she's trying to overcome that. And I said to her, So what happens when you tell yourself no? And she says, Well, I get this feeling inside myself like I'm not celebrating myself, like I'm I was a good girl. I need to get my cookie, you know, or I need to get my dessert, right?

Fran 5:51

It's just a it's a reward.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah, right. It's I've give me give me this reward. I feel like I'm punishing myself when I don't have that cookie. So I said, Well, let's talk a little bit about that. So basically, what what what she was able to experience is to understand that feeling of disappointment, that feeling of I told myself no, and now there's this, uh you can do meditative practices, kind of discharge that feeling without going into it's hard to sit with those feelings of disappointment though. Yeah. And and and but so the the thing is is that you can, through the meditations we teach people, disperse that energy instead of sometimes it's a simple thing of distraction. Okay, well, are you gonna go for a walk? Are you gonna do a hobby? Are you just gonna distract yourself with some other sort of thing? In the beginning, some people need to kind of do that. I could give you an example from our process that has to do with like alcohol, but it it really does boil down to the same willpower that you need to sit and do a meditation builds up a certain kind of awareness and ability to do to pick another path to disperse that energy.

Fran 6:57

So I presume that works the same for if I'll give you an example. Say if it's that cookie, yeah, because it's not a reward as such, it's that this you want the second cookie to taste as good as the first cookie, and it doesn't, but maybe the third cookie will taste as good as the first cookie. Yeah, you're chasing that feeling.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Absolutely. Yeah, that that's definitely.

Fran 7:18

I assume it would work the same.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Yeah. But it it it's more about it's more about the the feelings you get when you resist yourself.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

So we have this voice in our head that's telling us I want to do this. Some a lot of times it's programming. We talk a lot about this as we go through the pro the gauntlet. But it's really it really does boil down to the ability to get yourself to do what you want yourself to do or to resist your own urges, to not go into an unconscious state and just react. It's one of the reasons why the yogis and a lot of these really spiritual people have really, really great willpower is because they're the true ones is that the through the meditation practice you learn to master yourself, and mastering your brain masters everything else. So you're able to and it's not you don't struggle, it's not like it's hard. It's it's it's it's it's it's an easy thing to do because oh, I'm feeling this tension, I know how to disperse that tension right away. A lot of people are running.

Fran 8:19

The thing is though, it's um it's it's the hardest thing in the world if you don't know how.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah, yeah. It well, people feel like they're and a lot of people just are unconsciously reacting.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

They just they just are enacting, you know, in patterns that they've established. And we we talk about this in a part of this, if you what we do in Ironclad, if you the through the course of the three months, the first month is about really about awareness, growing the awareness which helps people make changes, is the awareness of what their individual problems are. And and not necessarily the food things. You learn a lot about that too, but yeah, it's much better.

Fran 8:57

That was that was kind of an example, wasn't it? So it could, you know, it covers other areas as well, not just not just food.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Well, we I mean we we we we try to keep Ironclad incredibly simple. You can pretty much think about it as that we have a food challenge every week, and we have a mental challenge every week. And there's they start off really simple because we have people that are incredibly advanced meditative practitioners, but what we've found as well, most of the people that start ironclad are good at like one or two kinds of meditation. They haven't done I've I I mean when I was 18 years old, and this is this isn't a bragging thing, but well, actually, I wanted to be a a uh Tibetan monk. I I applied to go to a monastery.

Fran 9:38

I love that.

Distraction, Breathwork, And Stress Relief

SPEAKER_02 9:38

And and uh I was denied because I thought I had it when I was 18. But I was I'm I'm grateful because I was just so passionate about it. And I've done a lot of work and I most recently completed a Yoga Nidra training course with Tannis Fishman, who's amazing. She actually made some meditations for our group originally. It was in one of her meditations that I got the inspiration to create Ironclad. But so the different paths that we walk and the different meditation practices, they kind of all are woven together in the same area. And you'll have people that are amazing, and we have practitioners that are amazing at Shigong, or the we I'm from the uh I live in the Netherlands. I'm from the United States, but I live in the Netherlands. And you have Wim Hof practitioners, right? You know, the the everybody most people know is the guy with the beard, and he goes in. You know who Wim Hof is? He goes in ice, he's the ice man. He goes in cold water, and you he climbs the top of mountains, and you see him in snow and he's in his shorts.

Fran 10:32

And that's quite ex that sounds quite extreme.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Well, it there's some there's some really good good stuff to do that. The the benefits of of cooling your body down for anti-inflammatory effects.

Fran 10:42

There's a lot of see that's that's why people have ice baths and things like that. And um I've actually been in like a cryo chamber where you go in and it's like freezing temperatures. Yeah, and it's all monitored and everything, and it's meant to have a lot of health benefits.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, that's that's how that works. It kind of helps to break the inflammation cycle. And we have we have, for example, in Ironclad, we have a week where we work on that and we do the breathing exercises because the the deep breathing exercises, the different kind of yoga breathing, is we also go through phases of of that in in our program. And why? Because they they take people to different states. So as we walk through the ironclad gauntlet, we're we we call it a gauntlet because it's continually challenging the the people who do ironclad to grow, mainly mentally. Though there's every week like a physical challenge as far as food.

Fran 11:31

So it's it's nice to have that kind of almost like a token of recognition that you're progressing.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Yeah, well, and they depending on what the goals, which is it's really interesting as well. We've had members, a lot of the members that we've had through the years, especially the ones we have now, are unfortunately dealing with cancer. So we've got people that are struggling with that. Either they've had it before or they're they're actively dealing with it. We've had sadly enough members who were kind of given up on, and it was sort of their last hope kind of thing. And they're all doing great. Diabetics as well, because again, this stuff goes down to food-related choices. Cancer is a little bit different in the sense that the food things are sometimes we have to, like with every single member, some members need to have things a little bit tailored to them because of where they're at and what their goals are. But the program is largely the same. Let's take, for example, we have members, for example, who want to gain weight, which is weird. But you you'd think, well, what does somebody who wants to gain weight and someone who wants to lose it have in common? Well, I want to give you one great example. It both has to do with stuff that they're either eating or they're not eating.

Fran 12:39

Yeah. Or possibly just to do with their bodies. Like I'll give you a personal example. One of my daughters has epilepsy, and she's relatively what would be classed as thin. She's a she's a very she's tall, but she's a very small build and doesn't put on any weight. Um, and some of that's due to her medical condition and the the um medication that she takes. She just doesn't put weight on. So you know if she had more kind of you know, help with her mind and then what what to feed her body with.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Right. Well, let's get let's go on an example of that, for example.

Fran 13:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

How old is she?

Fran 13:16

She's 27.

Weekly Food And Mind Challenges

SPEAKER_02 13:17

27, okay. There's a there's a lot of for the what I've seen a consistent thing with people who who have who struggle gaining weight is generally they one of the sensations that we get people to learn about is do you have is you do you have the feeling, how do you like the feeling of an empty stomach as opposed to the feeling of a full stomach? Okay. Personally, for me right now, I've been fasting for two days. I haven't, I've only had water for the last two days. So I know I'm very intimately right now what the feeling of an empty stomach is like. There's nothing in there except just some water. That's it, right? So, and I I do this as part of my own practice and other things that I've done, and there's reasons why we're getting ready to guide people in the end of our group in three weeks. So, but for example, it's very similar in a way, because this sensation, I had to learn to know it. I'm not dying, nothing's bad's happening. I'd learn to appreciate it. Whereas people who are generally very skinny, they generally like the feeling of having nothing in their stomach. They don't like the feeling of, I just ate a big meal and it's just sitting there. We've all had a meal like that that doesn't sit right with us, right? It's just kind of a big lump, just oh, it feels heavy. That they don't like that sensation. Whereas people who generally struggle to lose weight do not like the sensation of an empty stomach. They like that feeling. They want that feeling of there's something hardy and heavy.

Fran 14:42

So I suppose it's almost I was just thinking actually, I think she may actually even be 30. Always get the ages of my daughter's wrong.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

I won't know.

Fran 14:52

Yeah, I understand that, that feeling of fool, because that can also be a comfort.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Right. Yeah. It it and so it's like a hug, you know?

Fran 14:59

Yeah, and it's damaging. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

There's there's uh only a handful of reasons why people eat stuff at all anyway. Uh we eat stuff because of ritual, because it's just the time of the year to eat it.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

You know, in the Netherlands, I uh having lived in uh I grew up in the States and I moved here, and they have, you know, the the Sinterklause Saint Nick thing where they have these little pepper nut cookies, they're these sort of gingerbread cookie, kind of little round things with these really not very tasty candies. Why or why they they give them out by the the handful to everybody, all the kids at around that time. Why is that? Why do we eat a turkey in the United States at Thanksgiving?

Fran 15:39

Some of it's some kind of it's I mean, you said ritual, but it's similar to conditioning in a way. Like especially if you're in a nine to five or something. You know, when when I've worked nine to five jobs, it's been that's your break time, that's your lunch time, you know, whether you're hungry or not, you know, you kind of made to go at those times. So it's a conditioning.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

What other animal in nature eats three meals a day?

Fran 16:02

I know a few that would if they had an opportunity to. So, you know, whether they should or not is another matter.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Yeah. So but it it the and it this isn't about how many meals a day that you eat. It really is that that, but it's just an example of why do we react to some programming. I mean, the reason why, for example, do you know why we eat turkey in the United States for for Thanksgiving?

Fran 16:26

No, actually, I don't. I feel like I should know. I don't know. Just for reference, I'm in the UK. So for anybody listening, I'm British.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yeah. So you know about everybody, you know, you know about the tradition, right? The turkey and the Thanksgiving and gravy and all that kind of stuff.

Fran 16:43

And probably similar to a British Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, what you see uh, yeah. Sometimes we'll have that. My my my family, we did have that for Christmas too, but that's the traditional Thanksgiving thing. The reason is that there was after the war World War II, there was a magazine called the Saturday Evening Post. And uh I think Norman Rockwell painted a painting called, I think it's called No No Pain or Harvest. He painted a painting that became very famous. It's a very famous image. It's a a woman and she's got a big turkey, and it's she's at the head of the table, and all the kids are there's this lifestyle. And it was on the cover of the Saturday Evening Post and became a very it became like the synonymous image of what is associated with Thanksgiving. And that's why every family needed a big turkey with because it just just because of that one image became this also then goes into some kind of commercialism and very good marketing as well.

Fran 17:43

Yeah, yeah, well, a bit like things like diamonds, yeah. Something to do with the marketing of them.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Coca-Cola, the the the Coca-Cola snow to polar bears with what Santa Claus drinks Coca-Cola. You'll I've seen families in the United States where people put out Coca-Cola, one of the traditions is cookies, but because Santa Claus on the commercials are what the kids want to leave a Coca-Cola for. I mean, it's it's it's in it's crazy, but it's it's really good marketing. It it's bonding, and your your product is being linked to this ritualistic thing. So that's just one example.

Cold Exposure And Anti-Inflammation

Fran 18:18

So I so it kind of almost would make brains feel safe around that. And that's potentially why some people are more for Coca-Cola than Pepsi, you know, it's that kind of that loyalty and that marketing. And we can do the same things to our own selves, can't we?

unknown 18:32

Yeah.

Fran 18:33

Without those things that we do or those things that we think, it's all to do with those condition conditioning or those rituals that we've got. But the habits can be broke, you know, they can be made more healthy.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Absolutely. Yeah, that's a very, that's a very, very good, yeah. The the one of the rich so what we do through the process of the gauntlet is we're breaking those rituals consciously.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

By by generally shedding down the things that, for example, it's I I it's I I really do love and enjoy different kinds of special beer. It's one of my favorite things. But why is it that so there's certain sort of times where I really want one? For example, a nice warm summer day, and you're at a terrace or something, and you're at, oh, it'd be nice, you know. On other times I don't want one at all. But there's a ritual.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

They link together.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah, and and so you're aware of that, and it's like, well, now we're in season, we're gone, but I don't have to do that. We went, for example, to a really cool festival last summer, and we were sober the entire time, had nothing to drink, and really consciously made the decision of doing that to change it. Fasting is a great way to to just not only limit that, but limit all food and see where your routines, it's a huge reset button for for your whole life and your psyche. And but yeah, that's that's the sort of stuff that we get into in IronCloud and and why we like to do that. And and we we use every week a new meditative practice because I need I'd heard of meditation, you know, and I've kind of known people that have.

Fran 20:00

Done it and I didn't actually I say give it a try. I didn't actually give it a try myself until what part of my story is that I had I've had depression for many, many years and it hit really badly during menopause. I'm age 55 now, and the menopause hit me quite hard. I was very depressed and felt that I needed to try and help myself. And I started using a mindfulness practice and I wasn't aware of mindfulness either, which I now think is absolutely shocking. That I was in my 50s and hadn't hurt, you know, I was approaching 50 and didn't realise what mindfulness was. You know, I feel like some of these things we should know when we're younger. Well, just how much difference would it make to us as human beings if we knew some of this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Well, it absolutely. I I I've kind of come around to the idea that everybody has it, but we just don't call it that.

Fran 20:54

Yeah, that's that's yeah, because actually thinking about it, I had sat and smelt that cup of coffee and lingered over it and but hadn't realized what I was doing. So that yeah, I think it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

You bring like the conscious intention into it, but you you you take take any anybody like a musician, they it's it's a meditation to to practice your instrument a lot of times, you know, or yeah, sometimes cleaning for somebody is a meditation, they love it, they get into the they get into the flow, right?

Fran 21:25

You get into the zone and don't don't even start me because I love that.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, right.

Fran 21:29

Because I've got another I've got another specific question for you.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah, okay, cool.

Fran 21:33

If that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

We can go keep going.

Fran 21:35

So no, that's okay. Just want to like, because I've got a few like a couple of questions just linked around your okay more specifically about what you do. So in your experience, what are some common misconceptions people have about immunity and overall health?

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Misconceptions about uh overall health, and what was the other one?

Fran 21:59

Yeah, that their immunity and overall health and over and overall health, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Great question. Misconceptions generally, people unfortunately it's it's one of the difficult challenges, maybe back up a little bit what of of like marketing what ironclad does. Because every marketer's like you need to go down to like one niche, like one thing. And health is a is a total body thing. Your immune system, you can't just be like, I'm just gonna boost that and I'm not gonna worry about the other structures and functions.

Fran 22:30

Yeah, I hear you. So it's that kind of thing of, oh, I need to give my immunity a boost. I'll take some vitamin C for five days, and you know, it's not necessarily gonna do the job overall.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Well, if that's the only thing you were deficient on and everything else was good, then that's fine. But it's generally women You'd have to know, wouldn't you?

Fran 22:46

You'd have to have had those tests done.

Tailoring For Cancer And Diabetes

SPEAKER_02 22:48

And and and not only just that, like you it's it's the factors you can look at it. Let's let's maybe let's look at look at health from uh first off, my definition of health is that you when we say something is healthy, it is increasing or or when something's unhealthy, it increases our risks of having something negative happen to us. It's it's it it makes us more likely to have a negative health event, right? And when something's healthy, it decreases our risk. Well, it's challenging because you know, like water is really healthy, but if it can also drown you and you can drink so much you'll die. So it's it's like they have the saying in German, it's like it's it's it's the quantity that makes the poison. You know, so it's it like kind of back to what I said about it doesn't matter, it's not one ice cream, it's a hundred ice creams. Now, I don't eat that, but uh some people do. Uh you know, it's not one beer. I like that. It it's it's it's it's 20 or 30 or you know, continual too much, too many. Anything out out of balance is going to create you problems. And it's because our body funk functions as a doctor, you learn this about the the fundamental idea of homeostasis that everything needs to function and work with in balance. So the nervous system is divided into two main functions. You have the parasympathetic system and the sympathetic system. Sympathetic is the blood goes to your brain and to your arms, and it's like fight. You gotta fight or fight, gotta go, right? Panel of the metal. Sympathetic is modern day society, going, going, going all the time. Phones that are alerting to us. We're constantly on the go. We don't have any time to relax. You know, you just come home and you crash. Parasympathetic is is after you've had that big, huge Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner, and you're just like full and you're gonna parasympathetic is sleep. It's what it's the mode we generally allow ourselves to go into on vacation. It's one of the reasons why people like get sick right away, because their immune system has finally had the opportunity to kind of work stuff out and yeah, sort of it reacts, it boosts because you're giving it rest.

Fran 24:50

You said something of interest there. You said allow. Yeah, it's like we allow ourselves, we allow ourselves to to take that rest, and then you know, potentially we can become unwell because we're not holding the fault up in our exactly. So it's all about that permission, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 25:07

It's and it's about the the homeostatic balance that you need to find to get there. So, what people don't generally understand about immunity is immunity is like it's like a a balanced immune system doesn't overreact. So it some a lot of people have autoimmune-related diseases because their body is literally attacking itself. So it's it's properly regulated. Sometimes the therapies in in medicine are to suppress the immune system, which then you're gonna suffer the downsides of not having that. So you need to take, for example, corticosteroid that suppresses the immune system, and then they have to take an antibiotic because you can't fight off the bacteria. So you're you're getting these stacks of medications on top of each other, and then you have this the side effects of those, and what are those effects gonna be? So that's one of the issues with not seeing your health as a total, as a totality thing. I think that's that's really important. And the second one is I don't think, and this is something I know you understand, you've kind of hinted at it, people don't understand the ability that their mind has to do, how important the mind is, not just from like the decisions of I'm gonna eat this or that, but also from the constant being able to shift into when I'm I need more energy, how to shift my energy up. We we we teach meditative practices that do it in a natural way, from breathing exercises or whatever, or being able to take yourself into a I need to rest and relax state. That's why you get a lot of people that they're caffeinating themselves in the morning to get themselves going, and then they're alcohol or whatever, some depressant sort of thing, or they'll use exercise to crash themselves at the end. You need to have balance of both. You can't just be in a depressive state where you're just everything's down and you're you're energetic.

Appetite, Fasting, And Body Signals

Fran 26:45

That's why things like energy drinks exist, isn't it? Yeah, you know, and then and that that in itself potentially I wonder whether that can become addictive, whether it's the feeling or that you get from it, or you know, maybe the sugar. I don't, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, well, you you want to stay in balance, right? So I I when I was younger, very younger, I was very depressed. No one would describe me as depressed today, but I was very, very depressed when I was. And what a part of the reason why, and this is one of the things that people don't understand, it's why we have a food component, is people do not understand how the way they're eating is creating how they feel. They don't, they don't realize that because let's say you you're in a uh you're kind of having a depressed day, you know that hit of sugar, that sweet thing, is gonna give you, it's gonna make you feel a little better. And it's easy. It's right there. It you grab it. But then you get a speak, uh, a really a really big uh peak in your blood glucose, and then you're gonna have an insulin reaction, it's gonna bring it down, and you everybody knows that the crash, and then you're hungry. And when when you get those really sharp drops, that stimulates more hunger. So then you go back to more sugar and you kind of get in this vicious cycle. So it it what ends up happening, the byproducts of this, there's a lot of information about what this does. It overstimulates the dopamine centers in your brain, and people who are depressed want to feel anything that's good. So they they go for these really easy fixes and they they end up feeling worse, like any uh addict does. Same thing happens with uh whatever cocaine or alcohol or whatever drug you want to use, you'll get an initial reaction, but eventually you're gonna end up worse than you started.

Fran 28:21

But that's do you think some of that is because I don't know this is a bit of a general statement, but as human beings, I wonder if we're wired for instant gratification. Whether it's just in some personalities or something that we're wired for instant gratification. I think there's definitely that instant thing that's gonna make it work or make you feel better.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah, and well that goes also absolutely it it people don't I another thing too, and this is maybe important, uh we believe, and this is really maybe important to say this, which makes this makes ironcloud very unique. We believe we have a concept in Ironcloud of seasons. And what we mean by an Ironcloud season is like twice a year we guide people individually through our through our our process. We do that in the beginning of fall, and then we end around the beginning first week of December, and then we have another spring session. We're in our spring session right now and we're almost done. We are working on on building an on-demand program right now because it's a little bit too difficult to we're getting a little overwhelmed with with with that. So we'd like to have people that could take an on-demand program too, whatever they wanted. But that's what we're doing, the way we're doing it now. And the reason we have these seasons very consciously taught and understood. We want you like what you like for a reason. Yeah, like I'm I'm drawn to beer because it there's something I I don't, you know, you know, whether if you believe in God or not, or you can just believe in the fact that we have taste buds. You know, I was a chef before I was in college. I mean, I love to eat amazing good quality food that tastes delicious. It's and that these amazing meals and these amazing beers and amazing things, like I want to live and enjoy and use the sensations that I was given. There's like, for example, fast for a few days and then have a strawberry and you'll you'll have an amazing experience. It's like it's like this is like the heavens uh nectar, you know?

Fran 30:23

But then that's where the willpower comes into it to not eat all of the strawberries. Right, but you know, and everybody else's as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Yeah, right. Or maybe eat all the strawberries and then get sick and feel like, well, that wasn't what I was supposed to do. But for for example, but the but the idea is to have a season of restriction, and this is one of the problems. People, our bodies are built this way. We have a ketogenic energy system. The ketogenic system is the what causes us to lose weight. It really, really does an amazing job. Cancer cells live on sugar. So when we're in a ketogenic state, we can't cancer cells generally can die, especially if you do like I'm doing right now. I'm on the second day of a fast. I like to go at least three because that really helps to wipe out cancer cells in your body. So my immune system gets upregulated right now. 80% of your immune system is around your digestive tract to protect you from all the things that you eat. So I'm able to, my immune system right now is all these cells are being activated going through my body, especially when I'm dealing with doing like like I am doing these different meditations to help kind of keep everything going, reduce my energy, self-direct things that I want to have focused on. That it it really is a powerful way to have this, but it's it's really difficult. You in fact, I would say probably not healthy to stay in this sort of well, fasting. You can't do it in indefinitely, you're gonna die. So you have to be able to, right? You can't just all be in one state, you can't be in just a gross state. You you we are built, we we are naturally potentially apologies because I get a bit excited to speak.

Fran 31:54

So it's um it's about that the reset and then starting again. So it's kind of you know, the fast in itself is the reset, and then you're good to go again.

Rituals, Marketing, And Food Identity

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Yeah, and and and to celebrate those things. So the throughout the process of a gauntlet, people learn to let go of things that they that they don't want to have. Like, for example, I I don't generally, after one of my very first experiences with with with Arclad, I I don't eat sugar. It's just not a thing that I eat. Like that's why I don't have ice cream. I I do one of my reasons that I like one of my sort of weaknesses, I guess you could say, in some aspects, are ritual, as it has to do with and social pressure. Ritual somewhat less, but social pressure somewhat more. So if you if I were to come over to your house and you bake me some sort of sweet cake or something, and you're like, I bake this for you, please, and you don't know that I don't have sugar, and you're like, please try it. I might say no, but I'll probably have a bite and I'll and I can appreciate it. Just not like I'm gonna die or anything. And if I like it, I'll maybe have two. But it's it's it's it's it's not a part of my identity, if that makes sense. So I don't eat it. But I used to. I used to drink Coca-Cola and eat all that stuff. And the reason I don't is because what it does to me now, I don't like how I feel when I have it. So it's a part of my identity that like I don't drink cola. When I if I ever have some, it's like it's bizarre, it tastes really weird. And I used to drink it all the time.

Fran 33:21

So some of this, right? I just like to say that I want to say obviously, but maybe it's not obvious. All of this comes with no judgment. So anybody listening to this is absolutely no judgment. And oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Within an LP, I always say there's like there's no right, there's no wrong, like it just is. You know, these these are just kind of things that we're bringing that have worked for us that can pay forward to help other people. Like with the with what I do helped me, it helped me through my depression. It it could help somebody else, it may not, you know, it's but it comes with no judgment.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Excellent point. There there is, and there is none. I mean, with with even these things, because everyone struggles, we all struggle on different stuff. It's about learning because people, I'll get judged all the time. They'll see, like, oh, the the big health guy who started Ironcloud here he has at a beer festival, drinking beer with his friends. Yeah, well, they don't see me fasting for four days now, but you know what I mean? Like, but but it's not about that. It's really easy to say that.

Fran 34:16

The the funny-I I could I could get judged as well. So I'm like with food-related stuff, I'm vegan. And the possible like misconception that that I have generally from people is that I'm really healthy. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna be the one with my face in the ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Yeah, I was vegan for a number of years, so I I I don't know.

Fran 34:39

People assume that you know you either don't eat a lot or you, you know, you're really, really healthy. And I'm like, look, I have to I have I've got those those those kind of little food voices as well that say eat me, you know, whether it's all the sugars and all the rest of it. So I don't have added sugar, but I don't necessarily cut sugar out. So, you know, potentially I could actually dig into that junk food. It's only that I try and get my mind to override things and say, look, it's not you're not going to feel good afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

You know, no, it you know. Well, it it the problem, and this is for me personally. Um I know people who are we've had we have iron cladders who are vegan. It's challenging, it's more challenging, I think, because it's you really have to know the recipes and really have be well prepared for that. It's definitely very doable.

Fran 35:28

But it comes it comes in the same though for people that have allergies or maybe intolerances or kind of dairy, or you know, things have to be adjusted sometimes, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Yeah, well, of course. And and uh for sometimes, for example, we have we have a a phase in Ironclad where we remove all toxins and people say, Well, I need to take my medication. Of course you do. We we've we've had ironcladders, for example, who are taking chemo and going through a bunch of different stuff, and you adapt things to get them through there. The the thing about what ironclad is is a community of people. So we've been doing this for years and years now, and people continue to come back and people rock it for three months, and then they go back and they kind of fall back into their own patterns. They've changed, and some of them make long-term changes that are a deeper level, and some people have a bad week or two and they come back and they feel ashamed, but it isn't about that. Yeah, the the thing about it is I don't know any addict that really uh enjoys their addiction. You know, like it's that there's no pleasure in it. It's not like if you eat, you're drinking all this beer or whatever, alcohol or whatever it is. I really, when I go to a beer festival, I really enjoy it. And if I have some sugar or candy or something, if someone were gave it to me and I wanted it and I'd have it, I'd really enjoy it. I don't enjoy that stuff, so I don't have it anymore because my tastes have changed, and I'm part of it because my identity has changed. That's one of the things, for example, with being a vegan that I struggle with a lot, is that it I had I was eating a lot more sugar to can to get my my uh and it it caused those those those spikes in my in my glucose. And it it I didn't like how that made me feel over the long haul.

Fran 37:02

See, I tend to know the places that I can go because a lot of the time, especially being vegan or having dietary restrictions as such, whether that's for medical reasons or personal, it's not as easy just to go out and get something.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Right.

Fran 37:16

You know, it's you you actually start to see how much we're driven towards all the sugars and the fats and the you know the things in it. I suppose a lot of it's to do with processed foods and stuff. Yeah. Um, but as you've said, ironclad isn't just about food, is it? It's the the the mind as well. It's your mind and your body.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

The food is more like the way, like similar as what I'm doing, like with a fast, the fast isn't really about food, is it? It's about everything other than it's about how do you feel good without that? How what meditation practices can I utilize? I get a tremendous amount of stuff done when I'm on a fast because I don't have to worry about cooking and preparing food and all that sort of stuff. And I trust me, as I mean, as a chef and everything, I eat really well. We have really, really wonderful meals. I love going to uh gourmet restaurants and stuff like that. I really I eat I eat amazing when when I'm in in that that phase.

Fran 38:10

I think I wonder whether, right? You say, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Go ahead.

Fran 38:14

You see, you say that because you're not having to prepare meals or think about that, so you get more done. But I wonder whether initially you would get more done to take your mind off not wanting to cook or not wanting to do anything else.

Systemic Health And Homeostasis

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Well, maybe one day as Iron Cry grows, we've thought about this, having people through the process, because we do have as we go through, we we'd like to with our YouTube channel, we have some recipes on there, we'd like to have more. And we'd maybe to have like a whole kind of thing that there's recipes everybody can make or a variety of stuff. Maybe a whole cookbook will come out one day. Because I did do a lot of cooking, and some of our members are really high-quality chefs, and and we've kind of come up with some really kind of cool things that that would that we can make that are really delicious. And they don't take a tremendous amount of work, but they do take some. But it is a time, and the other thing, too, now you know what really is cool, Fran, nowadays, you could probably go online and order all the stuff you need via various sort of services now. There's a lot more options online for people, especially if you plan it out right where you can order particular types of food or whatever based on what season you're in. But for us in Ironclad, the thing I want to maybe the the big thing about season to mention is that it's it's and a lot of the beginning ironcladders don't understand this. They get to the end of the first gauntlet of three months and they're like, I'm gonna never change, I'm never gonna go back to doing this, that, or the other thing. And we try to tell them, you were drawn to that for a reason. You know, and and it's not about you need to be to learn because to have a balanced life, you need to be able to go out, even though I'm this health expert and overcome all these really and help people really be really amazing diseases. I still go to a festival and have a hot dog and drink beer, and you know, I mean, because what kind of bodily life is this when you can't when you have to live the super Super restrictive, you know, and I'll go to places so it does come down to discipline though, doesn't it?

Fran 40:05

Is that discipline?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

It did it absolutely does, and to understand that like I'm not gonna or what are the good the best options here for me based on where I'm at in this in in in what in what season and and of course to plan accordingly. But I go out, I want to have a good time, you know. And a lot of times the weird thing is is like I don't eat very much bread, but when I I go to a place and I have to get some, it tastes like dried dough for the most part. You know what I mean? Like it's like it's like it's like what it is, and it's like I don't it doesn't taste like food to me anymore.

Fran 40:34

Yeah, it's possible for your taste buds to change and you yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it that's it.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

That's one of the main things people say after the first season. Like pizza is weird. It's like it's like it's not a food. Do you know what I mean? Like we're food is something that you can like uh if you look at it, we have a saying in Dutch of Aids, what you ate, which means know what you eat. I know what a tomato is. I I even know what like a stew is. You put tomatoes and you put a piece of meat or you put stuff in a in a pot and you know, it's some maybe say an Indian curry, you put stuff in there, the the lentils, you get all your stuff, your coconut, you get your your spices in there, some onions, some garlic, you get it, get everything, get it bubbling. I know what all that stuff is, but I don't know what is in a pizza dough and and and these weird things that what's the cheese? What kind of is that? I mean, the whole idea of milk as a vegan, I think you'll understand this. It's and I'm not like I said, no judging anybody because I have cheese sometimes when it's gourmet. I have these things that are produced, but that's because I want to try the experience of it. We are the dominant species on earth because we've learned how to utilize and get energy from all these cool sources, and there's whole culture for them.

Fran 41:42

I feel like the overarching thing with this particular part of of our conversation is to is that awareness. So it's being aware of what you're putting into your body, it's being a and with your mind, it's being aware of the thoughts that you're having.

unknown 41:59

Yeah.

Fran 41:59

And that see that discipline for me comes into it because I'm very prone to depression. Um and I'm I love sitting with negative thoughts, or there's just there's just such a safety for me in there because it's familiar. I'm not saying it's right for me, but it feels familiar, so it feels safe. And I've had to override that. So every time I have those negative thoughts about myself, I consciously catch it and have to say something positive instead. And I try and reframe it and flip it around. So it's kind of that overarching thing of for me, it's being aware of all of my thoughts all the time, just so that I can make sure that I keep my mind healthy with your body. It's being aware of what you're putting into it, isn't it? You know, what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

I have a I have a challenge for you.

Fran 42:45

Go on.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

You want you want to try this? This yeah, this is right up, this is kind of right up your alley.

Fran 42:50

Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

I'll I'll I'll give a little bit of a background of where this came from. So this is a example, long, long, long. I've got one probably one of the best books I ever read. This is when I was in my, I think it was 22 or 23, was Don Miguel Ruiz, the Four Agreements. Do you know the book?

Fran 43:07

No, no, I'm not familiar with that.

Sugar, Mood, And Dopamine Loops

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Amazing book, if you can get it. Don Miguel Ruiz, it's called The Four Agreements. It's a short book. It's it's probably about like this size, not not very big. One of the best books I've ever. I just just I got all his all his books. Loved it. But basically, I won't get into it, what what those things are. You can check that out yourself. I'm sure people, some people watching this know what it is. It's it's a pretty famous book. Basically, what I did, and this is the challenge that I'm gonna challenge you to do. This became it became a big discussion in my family. Uh and what we did what we decided to do as a result, it was a challenge, and this is the challenge I have for you, okay? Really a good out good one up your alley. Do not, I want to challenge you to just go the rest of the day, maybe the rest of this weekend, okay? And you may not use negative words. You may not speak anything in the negative, okay? You may that means you can't say no, or you can't say any. We could we can do it now for a little while just to pry just to just just to pretend, right? I I did this with my girlfriend, love of my life, mother of my daughter. We I did this with her about a month ago. We got in a conversation about something, how she was struggling with this negative thought stuff. You know, she's being negative about herself. She said, let's try this as an example. So it's it, if you do this experiment, what you'll what you'll really quickly realize is how quickly less than positive things, right? So avoiding saying even the word negative, how quickly less than positive things just spring into your brain. So instead of saying, I'm not gonna do well, do you like this? Instead of saying I don't like it, you should say, Well, I like other things a lot more, right? Just it's it's it's an amazing mind exercise to do that and and to catch yourself and to see how quickly you you say things negatively.

Fran 45:05

Instead of like uh great example of that reframing as well. You know, okay, so it's like that, but how can we say it differently?

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Coming up with incredible so you're getting your brain to come up with these incredibly creative ways of not using negative word, negative negative verbiage, you can't speak it, and you'll see how quickly the negativity gets it'll change your mood in so many ways because you literally, through the language inside your brain, are and just as a challenge, just to see and and what Cayenne found and is so quickly, she's like, You can really do this. It's like well, I used to do this for like long periods of time. When I came to the Netherlands and I learned Dutch, right? I'm fluent in Dutch, I I removed all negative words from my language. I could just not learn how to say anything in a negative way. I could just say everything always in a positive spin. So and it's it it really does affect how your mind works, how your energy works, how that how that goes. So give that one a try. It can Yeah, I wonder.

Fran 45:59

I like that. And it can be a challenge for anybody listening as well.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah, dude. If if you're stuck in in any sort of negativity, there's there's two things. That and the other thing too, it's it's this is well known. Same kind of idea is and it's one thing we do uh in constantly in Ironclad is we we we are really, really uh in active gratitude a lot. We spend a lot of time talking to people about uh getting them to really and and when I'm saying active gratitude, I mean really we spend a lot of time in our one-on-one sessions, in our group sessions, talking about what we're grateful for, about our bodies.

Fran 46:36

So it's also being conscious, it's being conscious, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Being conscious and grateful and it really con I mean and in and in in the things that deeply matter, and you can see people when we start with them. A lot of them people don't have experience with with with gratitude at all, or they don't, or they they're they're kind of stay upper surface. It's really easy, by the way, when you've just it's your birthday party and you've got all these gifts and everyone's there, and you're you know, you're like, I got so much to be grateful for. It's much more amazing to do that when you're broken and you have a really bad day, and you learn a tremendous like sometimes it's like we always have so many things that we're breathing. I see this all the time with with patients and other people that grateful that you got another day. Be grateful that you're here, you know, watching this and listening to it. Just the fact that you can breathe in and out, and that you know, there's so much beauty and wonder in the world, so much to love as well.

Fran 47:32

See, I I do, I completely hear you. I do. And I've switched a lot of that around myself since you know, starting on my own journey with with the NLP and the mindfulness and everything. You're talking to somebody who right, I'm gonna be completely honest here. So cover your ears, anybody listening, if you don't want to hear it. If if somebody had previously told me that you can choose to be happy, you can be, you know, you can have sincere gratitude and be conscious about it, and that you can choose to be happy. I would probably have thought about, I wouldn't have acted upon it, but I'd have thought about punching them in the face because how annoying can you be to say something like that? It's not true. Like I would never have believed it to be true. And it would have actually irritated me. I would have felt irritated about it.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Yeah.

Fran 48:24

Because how can it be true? And since then, like sometimes I think about that, I think about how I how I think I would have reacted, you know, because I would have shrugged, I I know I would have shrugged it off. Because anybody that would say to me, like, oh, but you know, why are you so depressed all the time? I just shrugged it off all the time. Like, you don't know, it's like it's just part of me. It's in my bones, I can't be any other way. And because I didn't see any other way, because it couldn't be true. How can it be true if you don't if you don't believe that it could be a fact?

Seasons Of Restriction And Celebration

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Well, it it you have to yeah, exactly. I I I a hundred percent with you. I I one one thing I noticed about a lot of different archives myself is this is a great example for me. Um I'm I struggle, struggled a lot with perfectionism. And perfectionism really saps at the it's it's been an incredible driver in my life. The the things that I that I've done and learned, it's it's been because I'm I'm kind of very relentless and perseverant and I very stubborn, I don't give up. But a part of that comes from this this this this perfectionism, and I was thinking this has got really wonderful qualities for success in life and all these other sorts of things. But it it's a it's a torturous thing. You know, I'll do amazing things, and I'm like, well, of course you should do that. That's what you're you know, that's the only thing. And I the only solution I found for that really that works in switching that is gratitude. Because perfectionists, the best they get are like, well, of course you should do that. That's that's you know, that's the that's the minimum you should expect from yourself, kind of thing, as opposed to which is basically a constant message self-messaging of it's not enough, it's never enough, it's never enough, you're never enough, or that the the situation isn't enough, or you've got to do more, or you could have done better.

Fran 50:15

When these I've come to realize that things like emotional awareness and emotional intelligence and that is not a given. Like we have to we have to learn that and we have to be aware of it. So, you know, my my revelation about being incredibly irritated by happy people, you know, said more about myself and my own understanding of the world and learning. So now I'm not irritated by happy people, I love them. But I do understand, I do understand that kind of depression side of it. And you know, I know we're on a challenge here, but you know, the negativity, I I understand it.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Yeah. Well, we know for the sake of sake of discussion, it it it it it it's probably better to to put that one on pause. But try that that negative uh really give that a shot. Especially in your relationships with other people with talking, just just really give it a try try to speak nothing negative, just see if you can get and see how quickly yeah that that's a challenge and when in what areas. It's it's very, very, very interesting.

Fran 51:18

Yeah, because that helps with um your own self-awareness as well.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Yeah, no, totally. Yeah, it's really it's really cool. Yeah, right.

Fran 51:26

I've got another specific question for you. How do you envision the community of ironclad warriors growing and evolving in the future?

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Uh that's pretty cool. We spend a lot of time on that actually, because what ironclad is is really a community of people. We we are uh kind of a movement in that in that regard. And the reason is we need each other to transform. I kind of say like it was me and God were the first ones, and then after that, we just but I couldn't have done it. I there's some things that I just I feel are just divinely inspired. I don't exactly know where some of the stuff we do comes from, but it's really, really powerful and it works, and it comes from that that sort of space of you know, we talk about the the Atman is is what they talk about it in Yoga Nidra, but it's like the it's the the the space where all health and love and joy flows from. So but we do it with other people. The power of we've never had a Dunarak without a group. We've always had it, even the first group was a group of 10, and we've we've grown steadily since then. And so the community of people what we're what we're going to stick with is having a spring and a fall group with a break time in between to do with the seasons. And we're working right now on that will always be live. So that's always a live group for people with new information, new meditations, new and different things. And it allows the the power of the community of the people that are in there. Right now we do two live Zooms a week with the members, and that and then the rest of the stuff's all via, we use a Slack app right now to do that, to disseminate everything, and people are in a private Slack app. We are very, very one of the things about Ironclad in our community that's really important to mention is we have famous uh people, we have people for a variety of reasons don't want their identity to be widely widely known. So we're very protective of people's privacy. It's people's health. And there's other reasons why. Like some people, we have doctors, for example, that that take our that don't, that are themselves health coaches to help other people. They don't necessarily want to be out there for it doesn't matter to us, we we regard the privacy of everybody. So the community is is is a community of people who bring come together to help each other heal. And it it really is something that grows the primary ways via the other ironcladders themselves. And why this is important is it it helps us. For example, if if you were an ironcladder and you went through the you you love it, you think it's amazing, and then you tell other people the next season, you are much more likely to push yourself a little bit harder, go a little bit deeper, go better, because you you're you've got people that are looking up to you who are in there. So we've got a lot of that that that that that goes on. It's it grows kind of like in that sort of a way. But we are to the point too where eventually for us it gets challenging to be able to keep up with numbers. That's why we're working with an automated program that people can do that first, and then afterwards, if they need more help and assistance, they can join our live groups or if they're there. This is like totally for me. I love it. Get in there.

Fran 54:47

Okay, so with with the the automated program, would that so I'm guessing that would work the same as like an evergreen program. So it's written and yeah.

No-Judgement Change And Taste Shifts

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Yeah, the exactly. We we are we are not, we haven't, we don't have an automated one yet. We're working on that, putting it together. One of the reasons also it's become more important is we have to have a version that's dedicated for people who have cancer. Because cancer people, like let's say you cancer patients need help immediately. They need to be able to start right away. And other people want to start right away. A lot of people should, but some people struggle when they get on there with motivation, like, well, yeah, it doesn't really fit in my schedule right now. I don't have the time. Generally, most cancer patients are like, I have all the time in the world. Whatever it is that's gonna make me live another day, please. So we need something that they can on-demand start on kind of like right away. That's one of the things. For example, if we we're we're we just started, we're well, we're two months into our group. We're done at the end of this month. And then we won't start again until September. So if somebody reaches out and says, Hey, I really need your help, I'm gonna have to basically have to wait. And and that's that's happened before. So we really need to have some sort of an automated program for those people that can get in there and then they might have questions and need help and other stuff. The live groups are the best, I think, because that's where we really we tailor things. We can answer specific questions, we can we can tweak stuff, whereas the the automated program is less like that. And we don't really have it fixed yet. So we kind of know what we're gonna do. We've been doing the same thing for a long time and we know what works and what doesn't, but but we don't have it automated yet. But that's that's where we're going. So there'll be an automated version for people, and then there'll be the twice-a-year live groups for the for the folks. When we have terminology for these for this stuff too. So everybody who's watching this, maybe Fran, you could consider yourself to be what we call Ironclad Curious.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

So you're curious about what it is, you don't really know what it is. Once people decide they they go on a really important call with us, uh, the Ironclad breakthrough call. And on that call, we we we kind of get you down to your reason why. This season, every season has a name. This is the season of why in Ironclad. We've had the season of power, we've had the season of Chiara, we've had the season of transformation, but this is the Ironclad season of why. And the reason is it's it's really ironcladders this season are really really getting in touch with their reason why they want to transform, what their reason to transform is, and and really breaking it down to something that's deeply that deeply matters. So, like I'll give you an example where this came from. I had a patient, the patient who was struggling with his weight. He was always overweight and saw him for years, and he came in one day and he's slowly losing weight. And I saw him a couple months later and he did kept the weight off. And then, you know, three months after that, he'd still like, man, you you're looking great. What did you do? He's like, Well, my wife, and I said, Your wife? Yeah, like I think what did she say to you? She's like, No, no, no, it's not like that. He's like, I didn't uh I didn't tell you this, but my wife, her last kidney is being rejected. His wife had kidney disease. Wow, and his both of his the kidneys were being rejected. And his the doctor said, You can donate one of yours, but you have to maintain your weight at a specific level for six months. That's a why. That's a reason why, other than I just want to look better when I go to the beach.

Fran 58:12

And that's that's a really big motivation as well as it's a lot of different things, right? But see, the thing is when it comes to why, so therefore why is similar to a motivation, isn't it? Because you're motivated towards your why. But then as human beings, we all have different motivators, right? We're motivated in in different ways. So that obviously that that situation found his motivation to strive towards his why.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

And then he was he was able to stick to the thing because he thought about her every day, he saw her every day. It's like, you know, I'm I'm constantly reminded of this. If I don't do this, I might lose the woman I love, you know. So that's a deep motivation. For me, the motivation, my first motivating thing for Ironclid came from a moment a long time ago when I looked in the mirror and I didn't recognize who I was, and I felt terrible. And I just knew in my soul, I knew that if I just kept going in this direction, I wasn't going to be around a long time. I wasn't gonna be there for my children and for my family and for my patients because I'd gone through a breakup and things were really tough and I was in a really, really, really bad spot. And I remember catching myself in the mirror and being like, who is this person? And really coming to an idea of like, I need to do something, or you know, my I'm I'm this isn't the kind of quality of life I want to live. I hate how I feel. And I just had this really ominous feeling that if something didn't change, I wasn't gonna be around for a long time. I was, I was gonna, some some sort of disease or sickness is gonna kind of take me. And I I'd seen enough of that with my patients. I didn't want to be one of those people. And I I wanted to really change my life and my health. I wanted to figure this out. I had all this information in my head, all this stuff about, well, this is how you're supposed to change and you're supposed to do this and do this diet.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

But I didn't know why none of it worked, and none of it worked because I was in, I was focusing on the the sort of what to do, like that I would do this. And do that and do this and this, this plan, this diet plan. And I wasn't focusing on like how I thought. I wasn't thinking about the meditative practices and the processes. So what Ironclad is, is a kind of synergy of all those things together. Having the commitment of a group with you, having people that that genuinely care about you, that have the knowledge and expertise to help you, depending on what your situation is. Because probably everything that's out there, we've seen it. But also really being able to connect you to what matters. And the other thing, too, with Ironclad is it's Ironclad's very simple. It's not very complex.

Fran 1:00:39

So therefore, somebody that's already in Ironclad and ready for it, you know, it wouldn't necessarily be the person that's curious, so the friend that's curious may not be ready.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Right.

Fran 1:00:52

So it can't, you know, these things can't happen until you're ready.

unknown 1:00:55

Yeah.

Fran 1:00:56

You're not to know when people are ready, are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

So no, no. And well, part of the process is, you know, when people are interested in us, they get a forum that they fill out a short form and it gives us questions to get a sense of like what sort of health issues are they dealing with. And the other thing, too, is and this is why with everybody that that's become Ironclad, they all go through the breakthrough call. And on that call, we talk to them about their situation and we get a sense of like. And generally what happens, you either come out of that with they're like, they want to do Ironclad and we want them to join. Sometimes they they're interested in it, but we don't think they're the right fit for us because the people are going to be with us forever, right? So it's like it's kind of like a marriage, but like you're joining the family, you know? It's like, so you're you're in, you're in with us, with everybody as part of the group. And then you also have other individuals who are like, yeah, this is perfect for me. We want you in, but they don't want to for a variety of reasons, or it's not the right time. We they want to, but not right now. Okay. So, and all those things can happen. Sometimes that's because, and on the breakthrough call, the call really isn't about whether they be go ironclad or not. It's about figuring out the core of what their problem is and they're getting them down to their deep reason why. Like what they're really struggling with. And then sometimes it's just, you're doing amazing. Add this, that, or the other thing in there. You need to to practice this kind of meditative practices that'll really help you, you know, or like you need to work on X, Y, or Z. So it it it sometimes it's giving directing people to other practices or other things that can help them because that's other other resources as well.

Fran 1:02:27

So I presume because you've got a YouTube channel, so I presume that would come under a resource. Yeah. People that aren't necessarily in Ironclad, but they could um subscribe to your YouTube channel and consume your content.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Yeah, yeah. I I'm then that's a business. But what I do have, I have a lot of stuff on social media, different posts I've done about varieties.

Fran 1:02:49

They're all resources as well, aren't they, for people. So they still kind of come into your world.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Yeah, we have a Facebook group group as well, the Ironclad Immunity Community.

Fran 1:02:57

Uh I was gonna mention that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Yeah, in that in that Facebook group, we we we help give people a lot, a lot of posts are in there throughout the years. We've been we've been that was one of the first things we ever made years and years ago. So that's that's been there forever. But yeah, it's it's it's an amazing, it's an amazing thing to be able to help people and guide people through all that. But the where's the community gonna go? We're gonna continue to grow. Eventually, it's gonna get to the point where other ironcladders will help start other groups because we we just can't maintain everything. And that's where it's where it's probably going to grow, kind of grow and spread like that. And we'll keep doing what we're doing every twice a year and for the people that want to hang out. And the other cool thing where I'd like to go as well is because I the way I look at meditation, meditative practices, they're all designed to kind of get us to the top of the hill. So a lot of times what happens in our live sessions is explaining maybe the biomedical stuff with why we're taking away a particular type of food or or dealing with a particular type of mental struggle somebody's having, or talking about different meditative practices that will help them through what they're going through. For example, like the example I just gave you, if you're stuck in negative thinking, try speaking only positively for a weekend and see what that does, where you have to constantly be aware of like, wait a minute, like, and then when you go into your automatic rhythm of like, oh, with my family, my kids, whatever, you immediately go back into this this natural flow, your partner, yeah, all right, at work, whatever.

Fran 1:04:27

It's like a reprogramming.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Yeah. It really is. And it the the the first part of that, if you think about like for Ironclad, too, the first part is the awareness that you're what you even say. Because people are they're they're like I said, people are unconscious most of the time. They just sort of react out of an unconsciousness. So fasting for me is a huge reset. It blasts out all of my mind, my body, everything is kind of put into a and a bubble. And that's kind of what Ironclad does. It's a gauntlet in a way that really helps people to sort of get a new perspective on life and to change, to make really deep directed change. The other thing, too, to say about this is what we actually do in Ironclad at the end is people build a new identity. So Ironclad is build a new name, and their new identity is based on who they want to become. And then we work on that throughout the process. So it's a great thing because a lot of people, their issues boil down to the identity. Well, I just told you several of my identities. Like I'm a doctor, that's an identity, but it's also I'm a beer drinker. I like special beer. That's an identity. If I really don't want to have beer anymore, I need to change that identity, I don't do that anymore.

unknown 1:05:31

Right.

Fran 1:05:32

And sometimes there are things that are adopted as our identity that aren't that we would choose.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Yeah, and they're unaware of it, right? So instead of making learning, hey, I can make a conscious choice, and through every gauntlet at the end, we just do we like the identity that we've picked we've chosen for ourselves, we're working to be. Do we want to change that? Do we want to uh create something else? And a lot of these things go so much deeper than, you know, I want to lose some weight or something, they they're they're they're or even the disease, they start off with that because it's it's incredibly important. You're not going to be able to do anything for your family and friend if you're bit in your business, if you're sick, you're not focused, you're not thinking well. That that's that has to be like the basics. And then later on, people can transform in other ways that they want. So that's that's really like as we've gone further advanced, we could bring in other people into our into the community. We could have a lot of different kinds of guests come and help with different meditative practices or some other ideas. We've got last season we had the and the season of power, we did some more power building, physically strength. We uh we came up with something called the ironclad gorilla. Like, like be the be the get your get your inner gorilla to come out, go lift, lift hard, do that kind of those types of things. So there's there's a really kind of cool uniquenesses and things we have with every season that make it kind of cool. But the basis is always the basis. It's it's getting people to to to to become aware of like what's going on with them, what their habits and patterns are bringing in them, and that we do we do that in really cool ways in the in the pro in the process of the gauntlet. Second month is kind of starting to sort of buckle down and to make trans transformation, and last month is really hardcore transformation. It's where people really push the metal of the pedal of the metal and really make stuff, and then we end with the metatonia, which is our our our closing weekend. Which which um metatonia, what what that means is deep transformation through penitence. So it's like it's like you've gone through a religious experience, like a almost a religious experience.

Fran 1:07:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

And you you've but you've also been penitent. You've you know, like what we what what Catholics uh or Christians, Catholics used to do with Easter, how they would they would have the the Easter Lent, they would fast, and they wouldn't, you know, they would abstain from something, and then you have Easter Sunday as a big party. It kind of has elements of that in there.

Fran 1:07:54

Big party.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Well, that's what it sort of was. Like Jesus is risen and you know, like I remember doing that as a kid, like, okay, no, you don't get to have candy for this time. Now I get a big Easter basket and gorge out on it. So that's not what we recommend iron cards do, who just go back to all their there were stuff at the end. But it is about celebrating and feeling good and enjoying those things. And the real cool thing is, how do you change your tastes? For example, breaking all your sugar for a period of time and then coming back to the end and having some again, you realize I don't really like this that much. It's not really what I wanted. So you can't know that unless you have a break from it. So you need to take time away. So, like I said, like right now, you give me a strawberry.

Fran 1:08:33

That's very true.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Yeah, you give me a strawberry right now, it's gonna be the most delicious thing I've ever had in my life. I'm not having one because I I get to eat uh in a couple days, but anyway. But thank you for your time. I really like this.

Fran 1:08:42

This is I love that. I'm gonna ask you just a little favor. Please, can you so I've been calling you Dr. Ben, can you please say your surname? Because I'm not 100% sure how to pronounce it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Yeah, and Dr. Benjamin Zacharol.

Fran 1:08:59

Zacharol.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

I thought it was, and I wasn't sure whether to put more accent on the E orel or Yeah, it's it's it's German from Austria, but that's Zacharol is how it was how I was caught it. Although if you go down to Ger the to that area, they say Zachol, but yeah, that's what they say. Yeah.

Fran 1:09:18

I still I can say Zacharel, so we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

Zacharel is great. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Fran 1:09:23

So yeah, so thank you very much for sharing your insights and your experience. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

It was really wonderful. I'm I'm glad I you were the first interview I've done on there. I've got I've got been a couple other things, I've had a couple other set up and they didn't work out and get cancelled, but I'm really glad to have done this with you. This is why I do this.

Fran 1:09:40

Well, I'd love to have you back.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

Okay, yeah, yeah. If you want to have me back, let me know. Uh that'd be great. Yeah, thank you.

Building Community And Privacy

Fran 1:09:45

Um, so I just want to say so, for those of you listening and or watching, those of you interested in learning more about Dr. Ben Zacharell and his work, you could visit his YouTube channel, which is Ironclad Immunity 6910 on Facebook, Benjamin George Zacharell and the Facebook group, I believe is that just called Ironclad Commun Immunity.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

I think it's I think it's the Ironclad Immunity Community.

Fran 1:10:12

That's quite a tongue twister, isn't it? Let's try it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

Little rhyme, little rhyme. Ironclad immunity community. Yeah.

Fran 1:10:20

Okay. Cool. So you can there are different ways of accessing Dr. Bay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:25

We have a website too, www.ironclad.com.

Fran 1:10:28

Uh oh, amazing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:29

Yeah, and www.ironclad.nl if you're a Dutch speaker, but that's uh yeah, and there's other stuff too, but that that's great. People can reach out to me if they have any questions. They can also send an email at info at ironcladimmunity.com and I'll get it. Reach out to me on whatever social media. I I'm not, to be real honest, Fran, I'm not a huge social media lover because it's kind of opposite what we do in Ironclad, but it's you gotta be available for people.

Fran 1:10:53

It's it's a way of people either getting resources so that you can kind of nurture that interest or just a means to an end of communication, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

Absolutely. But it it it does. We have helped people through that. So but I'm it it it's not not my I'm not a huge fan of social media without. But I'm there. I it's because I'm a fan, just it's because I don't, it's not something for me. You know what it is? It's that it's a weird thing, and people have told me this before. It's that as much as I love helping people, because that's my my heart goal, it's what I've I love to do, absolutely love it, it's what my life's devoted to. I'm not a person who needs the you know, there's there's people they need this attention. I'm I don't need that. And I the only reason I I'm I I spend as much time on social media and the things that I do is just to get people attention so that people know what we do and I'm able to help more people.

Fran 1:11:44

I don't have Yeah, but see, there's that's that's the whole because again, gonna say no judgment, those wanting attention or go get it, you know, absolutely no judgment. But I feel like there's another big conversation to be had there because that sparked a lot of things in my mind actually about like you know, the the intentions and the things that we do, you know, for for different reasons. And I feel like we need to, we're gonna come back to that one. So for today, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Thank you very much, it's been wonderful, thank you, appreciate it.

Fran 1:12:15

So if you're interested in more content like this, be sure to check out the melancholy coaching on YouTube, um, because I'm on YouTube as well. And until next time, stay curious, keep igniting your creative potential. Check out Dr. Ben and come and find me as well. Thank you very much.

unknown 1:12:32

Bye.

Fran 1:12:33

Thank you for joining me on the Melancholy Coaching podcast. I'd love you to subscribe for queries auto connect, email and info at melancholymentor.com. Until next time, keep igniting your creative potential.