What’s next for WA, mining growth, Perth property & the FIFO future

With a massive $48 billion investment pipeline in mining and infrastructure, WA is on the move and poised for continued growth. But what does that really mean for everyday West Aussies, our housing market, and the future of the FIFO lifestyle?
In this episode, we’re joined by Mark Kouwenhoven, an industry veteran with 17 years of experience across some of WA’s biggest projects. Mark has seen firsthand how the mining and resources sector shapes our economy, our communities, and our property market and he’s here to share what’s changing, what’s coming, and why it matters.

We dive into how WA’s growth story is evolving right now, what this surge in investment could mean for jobs, housing demand and affordability. Mark offers his take on what’s next for the mining and property sectors, and what opportunities lie ahead. Whether you're planning your next move, investing in your future, or just curious about what’s next for WA, this episode is your insider’s look at the forces shaping our state.

Learn more at https://localehomes.com.au/ or https://localewealth.com.au/

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ABOUT ADAM SCHAAL 

Adam Schaal is the Founder and Director of Locale Property Group, a leading name in Australia’s property and construction industry. With decades of experience and billions in property transactions, he’s known for his integrity, leadership, and commitment to transparent, client-focused service. Adam is passionate about helping people achieve their property goals through honesty, expertise, and long-term relationships.

See more from Adam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-schaal/

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ABOUT OWN IT: Your Property Partner
Real stories. Real lessons. Real talk.

Buying your first home, upgrading, or investing can be daunting, you don’t have to do it alone. Hosted by Adam Schaal, Own It shares real experiences, wins, mistakes, and mindset shifts to help you make smarter moves without the jargon.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

With over 48 billion dollars being invested in mining and infrastructure, this is critical for shaping the property market. We've become a destination hub based on incredible industry resources out of any other state in Australia. It's very, very hard to be outside in the market when we're seeing Langar.$10,000 to$15,000 a month. Some of these young people, they don't understand that.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

They'll go and spend a lot of their money.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

My advice to them is Welcome to Own It the Property Podcast. Open chats about money, property investing, and everything in between. I'm Adam Schau, owner and founder of Locale Property Group. We're recording on the land of the Wujak Nunga people. So what's next for WA? With over$48 billion being invested in mining and infrastructure, this is critical for shaping the Perth property market, but also the employment market here in WA. Today we're chatting with Mark Owenhoven, who holds a general manager role at Fortisque Metals. Mark's going to talk about all things mining and how that's shaping today's workforce and WA's property market. Welcome and thank you, Mark, for joining us. You've been in the mining industry for over 17 years. What attracted you to the mining industry back in the day?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I first actually came out of university and went to study mechanical engineering with the desire to actually go into F1. Yeah what? Came out of university, went to work for a company in Malaga called Australian Automotive Components. I was one of two engineers working for the company, getting paid about$30,000 a year, making a lot of design decisions on the products that we would create. We had a lot of really cool products. Probably the best one that we came out with, and the top seller was a supercharger kit for a Harley Davidson. Oh wow. We sold plenty throughout the world. Michael Schumacher bought one, but all three distributors through the United States. That was going really well. Did have a couple of challenges and problems with our products, but we worked through that as engineers. Yep. However, ultimately what I'd seen at that period of time was a lot of my friends and colleagues were coming out of university going straight into the mining industry, earning$80,000,$90,000,$100,000 a year with no experience. Not only that, they were one of 10, 20 engineers working for the group, which meant they had mentoring experience, there were opportunities to develop. Unlike me, being thrown in the deep end with probably 20, 30 sort of people doing manufacturing reporting through to us, with probably no mentoring and guidance at that period of time as a young engineer.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Wow. And what was your first role in the mining industry?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

So I left there. I actually got an offer from BHP at that period of time. Went up and worked in Newman, lived in Newman. My first role was a reliability engineer. Great role. Came into the industry earning probably similar to the numbers I said before, around$90,000 a year, but a lot of benefits from living residential. So basically everything we earned was ours to keep.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Great. And so you entered as a reliability engineer. How did your career progress from that?

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, good good question. So we went into the reliability space, did a number of years, was conscious that we were going to leave Newman at a point in time. So I I said to myself, before I leave Newman, I wanted to go into a leadership role, supervising some of the blue-collar teams up there. So went in as a plant supervisor in the operations space. But it gave me an insight into leadership and insight into probably most of the things that I use now as a leader. I I learned from probably managing some of those people around that time in terms of what our people need. So that was that was fantastic. Did that for close to a year and then got an offer to come back to Perth and work on one of the major growth projects that were happening under BHP's wing at that point in time. So came back to Perth, was a senior project engineer leading a large team, working through then a variety of different roles in maintenance planning, in operations to where I am now, basically as a general manager of a site.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

So what changes are you seeing across WA in terms of growth expansion?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah, good. And look, I think it depends what commodity and what what type you're looking at. So if we if we speak iron ore, where I've spent the majority of my career, iron ore, there's there's probably a little bit of pessimism at the moment coming from China in terms of they don't expect China steel and China growth to increase too much over the next five or ten years. As a result, what does that mean for iron ore? There's not too much growth in the iron ore market. However, what there is is companies investing, we're seeing Rio's just gone and signed up for I think it's hoped down to two as a partnership with with Roy Hill, and that's a four or five billion dollar project. Um that's still coming on. What some of those big companies don't want is for their production to go backwards. So as old mines finish up and they and they run out of resource, they'll go and invest and actually build a new one to make sure they can continue that same amount of production year on year.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

And when they build a new mine, obviously that there would be demand, I guess, from a workforce point of view to actually build those mines. Is that to see your workforce increase?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Workforce increase. Number of a couple of thousand people in terms of required for construction. Um that's the direct impact that we see on site, plus the indirect uh obviously of the the trades and the manufacturing that happens down in Perth to support that.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

What we're seeing on the ground is the migration from interstate is incredible. It's something we haven't seen in um probably a decade. Uh, and international has always been a thing, but internationally it's um the demand is incredible. Uh interstate, uh, you know, five years ago we saw every Western Australian move over to Melbourne or Victoria uh into New South Wales. Um now we're seeing it the other way. So we advertise for a job, whether it's in marketing, finance, broking, consulting, whatever that may be. We're getting bulk applications, a lot of it coming from Victoria. So it's really incredible to see WA being the destination state and people moving to WA, obviously powerhouse economy, um, and uh yeah, obviously lots of opportunity in housing as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

And and it was interesting having a look and comparing the last mining boom that we saw, sort of 2008, 2009, 10. We saw that come to life and raw. As commodity prices came off, we did see a lot of those families move back over east. Yep. I think this time's going to be different. We're seeing a lot over in the state. There are some projects to keep going. As I said, there's new themes coming out and in play, be it the decarbonisation of Fortescue, be it some of the the Rio Tinto mines that are running out, we're seeing gold really take off as well. Yep. So there's there's other areas in the industry that are are picking up while others are down.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

That's keeping people here. But also if you go and have a look at the state government and and the Roger Cook government and what they're committing to local projects around the place, I I think they're almost paying for probably 25% of the jobs in in our industry on their own. Okay. It's it's it's massive. I went to a breakfast the other week with Roger Cook as he was speaking about decarbonisation and energy transition, still uh very supportive of gas as a transition energy. Um, but working towards how do we fund solar projects? How do we fund the uh the battery scheme that's happening uh at the moment? How do we see the solar scheme and and what projects can the state government do to support some of those?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

So do you think there's key learnings, I guess, from the last uh boom and obviously downturn? Um the government's putting some risk mitigation strategies in place to make sure that doesn't happen again, or we're just more diversified, um more sophisticated, or we we're a bigger um engine room, I guess, from a mining perspective. How's that um how are they managing that?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, I I think we're more diversified. I think there's probably some smarter decisions being made at government, but I I wouldn't say we're coming into a downturn as well. I I I think there's a point where our iron ore miners might be coming off a little bit, saying that the iron ore price has come back 10-15% over the last three or four months based on some China stimulus that's happening. So I I I think my guidance would be if you if you want to go and forecast commodity pricing or you want to forecast um metals pricing, then you probably shouldn't be doing the work that we're doing now. You go and work in those industries, and there's probably a lot more to make.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Reality is 99% of us can't do that. We can't forecast the commodity pricing and what's going to happen. So we sit here and we we go and do things within our control and what we can do.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Absolutely. And are you feeling uh pressures obviously with your staffing uh from a housing shortage point of view? And is that directly impacting um your labour forces yet, or have you seen any impacts?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

No, there's there's not a lot. What what we are seeing through work is the Perth market has really taken off. We're increasing the number of flights to other destinations. So we've bought Bustleton into the mix. Yep. Uh Bustleton's really taken off, and you're seeing prices up there move significantly. We've had to increase the number of flights and plane sizes that go into Bustleton. I think we were flying, um, don't quote me on the numbers, maybe a hundred seated planes down. Uh we've just up that to about 180 every every or a couple of times a week. Okay. Uh we're getting large push from our workforce on the likes of Albany and Geraldton for regional flights, but again, not seeing the demand there in terms of the total numbers to run flights down there. Uh, in absence of that, we we won't until there's the the number of people down there. I don't think that'll happen. I still think there's a number of people who want to live around the hubs. They don't want to be driving for four or five hours to get to an airport to work in the mining industry as a result. You're still seeing those Perth areas, um, still seeing Margaret River, Bustleton as attractive hubs for them.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Absolutely. And with the ongoing demand of labour, um, are you seeing uh salary rates or um inflation, I guess, on the salaries that you're paying currently? Obviously, we saw that significantly in the last boom. Um obviously we see mining um personnel get paid well, but uh have you seen pressure?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

We are um look, I I think there's a number of things at play pushing that as well. There's obviously the the CPI that's going up, and we're we're seeing a workforce saying they want to be compensated to keep up with CPI. Um we're seeing a workforce that wants to keep up with housing pricing and everything else, um, which is a challenge as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Absolutely. Look, from a construction perspective, we um the industry was diminished pretty heavily um probably post uh 2015. There was a five-year gap there. Um I think a lot of trades went up north um for obvious reasons. A, there was work, b they got paid really well, um weren't out in the weather necessarily what they were doing previously. Um, so that did diminish the trade pool, and now we're trying to rebuild that trade pool based on demand. Are you still seeing a lot of trades um getting pulled up into the resourcing industry? Heaps. Yeah, heaps.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

We see a lot of I suppose young electricians that were constructing homes come into the mining industry. Um we we probably see a good number last, as in 60-70% last, and come and say, hey, that the money's good, the lifestyle's good, um, and I can understand the transition of safety requirements compared to what I was doing down here. There are a number though that come and work and say, hey, this isn't for me. Um I like to go home every night, the family needs me, or uh I I don't agree with some of the safety things there, so that they happily volunteer themselves out and come back to what they were doing down in Perth.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Good, we need them down in construction land. But um look, that's been a that's been um it's just the pressure on housing prices has been significant. Obviously, we've seen housing prices probably up 70% from where they were from a construction point of view in 2020, um, and that's still increasing. We always thought that this is going to plateau and the demand is like a tsunami, it just keeps coming from a supply point of view and uh from a sorry demand point of view and the supply just cannot keep up. Um, we've seen build times compress back to reasonable time frames within 12 months, um but we're still seeing uh the prices of trades um back uh still where they were at the peak. Um brickies uh really great example, and obviously they'll paid underpage back in the day, and then we saw significant demand, and they went up to um over three dollars a brick from basically a dollar a brick. Um obviously that that when I was um in construction land of representing a building company, we got that back down to about 250 uh a brick. Um, and now that's back well above three bucks a brick. So they only had it probably a six-month period there where brickies went down and then they went back up. And to be honest, they're just going to stay there for an extended period of time because we just do not see that demand um diminishing.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

And what every time you see driving it, do you think it's the the demand pull of construction sitting in the pipeline, or do you think it's a shortage of trades driving it? What which one's pulling more?

SPEAKER_00 12:44

So demand. Um I think that the trades they're building the trade based slowly to catch up, and obviously we've seen some big competitors shut down and things like that um in the building industry, so that's helped supplement the building companies that are still going. But demand is ongoing, and um, whilst we saw significant investor demand, we we saw the 2020 stimulus, which was first-term buyer demand. Uh, then we saw just post that we saw significant investor demand, which was you know, up to 50% of all transactions in real estate and in uh new construction were through investors, a lot of at East Coast, they've obviously done very well and they're already deploying their capital. Um and now we're seeing own occupies back. So investors are still probably 30%, 20, 30%, definitely lower than what it was, but it's still very strong because we got really great yields over here, still affordable price points. Um, but owner occupies. Um the property volume uh of listings currently is below 4,000, which is like at critical levels. That's what it was 12 months ago, then increased to higher stock levels, and now it's gone back to lower than what that was 12 months ago. So even though we're building the homes more than ever, uh, we still can't keep up with demand. So migration for mining, um, international, interstate. Um, I'm seeing all over my TikTok like all these influences that are like, I've moved to Perth and it's amazing, and it's like all these cool things about Perth, and it's like that definitely didn't happen five years ago. Um, so uh we've become a destination hub based on incredible uh industry resources, um, powerhouse economy, earn incredible money. It's not too busy, we've got a great lifestyle, weather's great, and we're just seeing that demand increase. So the government is doing absolutely everything it can to stimulate the uh the market, but they're stimulating a market that has a shortage of trade base. So that's just exacerbating things with price pressures. So people I see people sitting on the sidelines going, I'll wait for property prices to reduce. I'm gonna see build prices reduce, they're just seriously not. And look, being a general manager at a building company, I genuinely thought that building prices were gonna reduce. I was sitting there talking to my chief financial officer at the time, going, we're gonna see this come off, and it's probably 40, 50 percent higher than what it was at that conversation, and it's not slowing down.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Back to what we said about forecasting, right? Um at the end of the day, we can't do it, so you're you you the the best thing to do, I think, is become part of it.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yep. So we've seen the uh mining workforce in WA uh exceed 135,000 jobs. Um that's been eight consecutive years of growth. Um, and you're saying that there's still demand and you're seeing growth. Um, what does that mean for the landscape?

SPEAKER_01 15:11

I don't think it's coming back. I I and I I would argue that that 135,000 number is probably a base employment number that we see up on sites. Yeah, purely first time, yes. We've got roaming contractors that come around. I'd probably say there's another 10,000, 20,000 of those that support sites with shutdowns and maintenance, and then probably double or triple that with support services through the Perth hubs, Malaga, um uh Welshpool, some of the big areas, the industrial areas have have got just as many people working through. So I I think that number's quite short. Do I think it's gonna come back? No, I don't. Um you add the construction activity that's gonna be happening in in mines supporting that going forward, um, and and we're in a great spot. The other argument is what will AI do to some of these numbers coming through? That's a huge theme that's coming through. Um everyone's saying that that's gonna have huge impacts on our labour force. I think the reality is with mining in Western Australia, a lot of the work that we currently do already up on site is maintenance, pulling an engine out of a truck. Um, can AI go and do some of those activities? No. Could it make it quicker and more efficient? Maybe. Um or definitely, I should say. However, you'll still need a base workforce to go and do those. Um conveyor belt breaks, but you still need people and labour to go and complete those tasks. So I I don't think it's going backwards. I'm seeing probably another changing landscape over the next probably 10, 20 years throughout Western Australia. A number of our larger ore bodies have diminished in in a lot of industries, um be it gold, be it iron ore, be it copper. Um and and what that means is our large concentrated hubs where we've got people working, um, we might have 2,000 people working there. That needs to be broken down once the ore bodies finished and and we need to transport ore from smaller ore bodies um into our bigger hubs that we've got going forward. So that means we're gonna have a lot more smaller mines operating around the place than than large single mines. And that will put increased pressure on um our labour workforce as well. We'll see more people working through those.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

That makes total sense. Are you seeing um supporting services and businesses uh increase um of late? Um supporting industries, uh whether it's uh workforce related, uh maintenance related, are you seeing more companies pop up?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I'm I'm seeing absolutely consultants seem to be going through the roof at the moment. Everyone seems to want to go and start their own consultancy and and do bits and pieces. That seems to be going going okay for some. Uh we're seeing in other areas probably a differentiation of services that are wanting to be offered to people that work away in mines. Um we now employ um masseurs, um, we we employ hairdressers, um, we employ um people to come up and run games and other things up on sites during during the breaks of people, and it's just giving them other opportunities to to enjoy their lifestyle up there. So it's pulling in areas of the industry that we wouldn't thought we would have. We've got physiotherapists, um it's having a huge impact. Personal trainers, is it's huge, it's pulling in everyone.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Have you got any forecasts on where that's going to go and how much further is that gonna expand? Are they basically creating a little city up there and having all services?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

All all sites are pretty good. And I think Fortiskew does this fantastically. They they listen to the workforce, they stay close to it, uh, and really listen and understand what the teams want. Yep. And try and make that an offering. Um, if if there's enough demand for it, if the people want it, how do we say, right, we've we've got an offering that can keep our employees happy, keep them motivated, keep them retained, uh, and as a result, the the investment will come back through the company and the effort that's put in.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Absolutely, really focus on well-being. Have you seen a big shift in that in the last five years, or we would have had since uh 17 years ago in the well-being investment? But uh run me through that and what are uh most companies investing in currently. Huge, huge changes.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Um a lot of it's what mental well-being. That's that's the been the big transition over the last five or six years, is it it's not only written into our our minds act and regs now in terms of our psychosocial hazards that we must look out for, but also it's built into um a lot of our employees' mindsets of I I want to go home, I want to have a good mindset when I'm at home, and I want to maintain that while I'm up at work. Um we we need to make sure we've got the right facilities and and infrastructure there to support it. Uh and and be that through um we we're running chatlands on site to make sure that people um have it have a good mental well-being or have someone to go and chat with. Um but also the training for the supervision, the um support services that we offer all of our employees. It it's great, and it just wasn't there some time ago. So that's that's the next transition. Uh I I think after that, what we'll see is how do we start deploying AI more. We've seen it conceptually at the moment in the industry. Um people have got ideas on where it gets used, but I think what we will start to see is more probably some of the the less traditional roles come into mining that can offer some of these services that uh are able to give an advantage where we haven't seen it before, where our current workforce doesn't probably have the um uh the knowledge of how to implement an AI function or tool or or a data science application. How do we transition those people into our industry to give us that productivity edge? Um we're hearing the federal government talk about it, hearing state government talk about it, that that productivity is going down. Um, and that's uh a benchmark. I think I sent something or or shared something with you many years ago on what does it look like for our overall productivity in the state in terms of homes built per person. Um, that's been going down. How do we bring that up to where it was? And some of these tools are going to help us get there. Same with mining.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Absolutely. What's uh what advice do you have for young entrants coming into the mining industry based on AI and what their skill sets are and how they should invest in themselves?

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Look, I I think we're in this vortex in WA that any industry you work in, um, be it banking. I I've I've got a friend in banking, um, she is the green advisor uh to mining and a manager, and you sort of go, wow, it it's just a vortex. It pulls in every industry, it it pulls in people from all sorts of different backgrounds to either work in it directly or support it, um, which is probably what you see through through where you're making some of your sales as well. Everyone's being pulled in, everyone's impacted by how how the mining industry operates. If young people come in, go and do your passion, follow your passion. Uh my passion was was going into F1 and motorsport. Um I went and followed a career that I thought could help me get there. Um I was sucked into the vortex of uh of mining in Western Australia and I love it. It's an absolutely great industry. Um, you're well looked after, the benefits are fantastic, and there's some fantastic, like minded people that you'll meet in there that can that can get you there.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

So, what forecasted projects have you seen on the horizon? Um, what do we anticipate over the next five years?

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Great question. So in in the iron ore space, I'll talk to first and then maybe look at gold and some of the other industries. We've seen um like I think BHP's partway through construction of their Western Ridge project out of Newman at the moment. Um that was I think a seven, eight hundred million dollar project um part way through. We've got Rio Tinto just finished a project and publicly came out with with Roy Hill and announced that they were kicking off another project, or or Hancock prospecting, I should say. Um Hopedowns 2, I believe it was. Um several billion dollars there. That'll kick off now and flow into the next few years. Um in the Fortescue space, all the mines are going really strong at the moment, but I think early into the next decade what we'll see is probably some of the older mines need to be replaced or or will start to turn on newer bodies. Um add the decarbonisation layer on over the top as well. Fortescue alone's publicly announced they're going to be spending six billion dollars between now and 2030 decarbonising their operations. In the gold space, gold has gone absolutely nuts over the last what two, three years, and and I don't see that turning back as well. That's that's a place where investors really want to stow their money at the moment. So we're seeing the I think Northern Stars kicking off the Hemi project in the Pilboro. We're seeing a lot of other smaller mines operate uh and kick off in the goldfields area. Um not too much happening in the nickel space. We really saw a reversal of that um probably two, three years ago, uh, with Indonesia kicking off their mines. That's really impacted our industry. And and I think the fear is unless we can maintain productivity in our state, um, will we and see other industries end up like the nickel industry? So we we need to make sure we're on the front foot, and I think everyone's working towards that. Lithium, probably a similar similar boat. Lithium prices have come off significantly. There's not too many projects that are currently underway. I think there's a few that have come on recently with Lion Town, um with West Farmers recently completed their projects and they need to get those into production. And I think we'll see that maintain a relatively stable uh outlook going forward. But but plenty of projects there. Um Woodside, uh they're completing their, I think one of their trains up on the northwest shelf. Uh that's got a couple of years left before that's finished. So plenty of construction projects in the pipeline, and then we'll start to see that transition to to the green space. So it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

What are we seeing in the exploration space? Um, is there a big ramp up in that space? And there's certain commodities that are going really hard. Obviously, you were talking about gold earlier.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Um what are we seeing in exploration?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Lots in exploration across all areas as well. I mean, gold's a massive one. Copper, everyone wants copper. Yep. No one knows where to find it. So there's drills going everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Are we seeing an increase in exploration in these areas?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah. Ongoing increase. Obviously, that's it. Compared to two, three years ago, massive increase. Generally, what you'll find is the amount of drills on the ground follows the commodity price. Commodity prices go up, we'll see the amount of drills go up. Small small producers or juniors think they can get into the game by going and finding something. Uh Rio Tinto's got their project uh up in the north north as well. Um can't remember what it's called, but they've got a copper project underway. So, yeah, lots lots happening across the whole industry.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Do we see exploration continuing to increase, or is that something that's plateauing? And obviously that's a huge um impact on workforce as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Absolutely. So again, in increasing now.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Um not only not only in the areas that that are growing, like I said, the copper industry and the gold industry, but we're seeing again the the iron ore miners as well. They need to maintain a certain resource and outlook for the future. They want to have 10 years of production ahead of them. Um I think Roy Hill's got probably five or six years production ahead of them. They're they're drilling a lot at the moment. Um, Fortescue, Rio Tinto, BHP, there's lots of drills out there at the moment trying to keep the industry going. So that that won't be slowing down. So WA economy currently has a 48 billion. WA has approximately 48 billion dollars of projects in its pipeline at the moment. That excludes some of the government projects that we've got underway. There's a massive confidence in what we've got going on here. I don't think we're going to see that period that we spoke about before where WA entered a bit of a bit of a snail's pace in in 2011-2012. We're seeing other industries step up and actually replace that. There's there's a massive outlook here and it's not slowing down. I think the property market's actually reinforcing that with pricing from interstate buyers, from domestic buyers. People know that it's a great spot to be. We've got a great future.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, absolutely. The more money that's in our state from uh mining, it just diversifies our economy just based on need. Construction is diversifying and growing based on need, and just general services are going to continue to increase. Yep. So WA has been known as a boom and bust state back in the day. Um are we more resilient than we've ever been?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I think we are. I think we are. We've we've had periods through the 80s, 90s, the 2000s was almost a boom on its own until we saw that that 2011, 2012, 13 period. Um you could argue that we're in one now. Um we've certainly got a lot of leaders in the state coming out saying we need to diversify to try and maintain that. But you've also got the state government saying, let's let's bring back to WA with the made in WA campaign. How do we how do we reinforce the state? How do we remove that boom and bust cycle? They're certainly doing a lot of spending, doing a lot of projects to bring manufacturing back to WA and in-house. Um, I think we'll I think we'll see downturns again in commodities, don't get me wrong. But I also think we'll be more resilient with with a more diverse commodity portfolio from WA. We've got a large range of manufacturing that's happening here. Um and the government's projects are uh are ramping up. We're seeing a lot in in state infrastructure, roads. Um they want to build a racetrack out at Burzwood. There's there's lots happening there for uh for the state's economy that's on our side.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

So how close do you how closely do you think property prices are linked to uh mining upturns and downturns?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Good question. Probably back to the one I said before. If I knew I'd be uh doing something else other than mining. Saying that, um, look, we're we're we're in a great spot and traditionally they have have followed a trend. Um we have been separated from the East Coast because of those reasons. We we saw, I think again, that that last period, that last downturn, we did see a lot of eastern states workers that become out of work. They return home, they they go back to the East Coast where their families are, their friends are. Um, it is linked. Don't get me wrong. I I think again, how can we differentiate ourselves as a state to try and bring that away? It's happening. Um we'll need to watch watch this space.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

So, what kind of legacy can FIFO workers create for their family, for themselves, their future? Uh, what are you saying?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I think what I see on a normal daily basis is our FIFO workers come from working in Perth, they go up to a role where they're working on site and they come home with this huge, um, huge bank balance of discretionary spending. And and a lot of them uh make some choices which probably aren't wise. I was chatting with a guy the other day who'd been working in the industry for 20 years. Um my comment to him was, I'm sure you'll be ready to retire soon. And he he said to me that he was still paying off his Mazda Ute that he had a car loan on. And I look at that and I just think, wow, you've worked, worked away for 20 years, you've sacrificed some of that family time. Absolutely. Uh, and and what have you got to show for it? Some of the young ones that come in, um, they absolutely make some smart decisions and say, right, how do I how do I go and build a share portfolio? How do I get into housing? Whatever it is. Uh, I encourage a lot of them to do it for the sake of it's actually forced savings for them. Absolutely. So be it you're paying off a home loan, you're buying a share portfolio, in three years' time, um, you've actually got something to show for your money in terms of an asset that will appreciate. Some of these young people, they don't understand that. They'll go and spend a lot of their money. My advice to them is if it's not in your bank account to start with and it's being forced, it's going to pay a home loan, it's going to pay off a share portfolio, it's not there to spend, and you'll spend and you'll live within your means. Absolutely. As you were before you're working flying fly out.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

What we see is people whose incomes increase and their cost of living just increased with it. Um obviously we uh manage a finance business as well, and we can see that just uh increases whether it's going out, um, partying, buying uts, buying boats, whatever that may be. Um and yeah, it's it's uh it's disappointing to see because, like you said, they've got um a lot of time away from family, they're they're sacrificing a lot, and um, whilst they're living it up, um they're just creating golden handcuffs for themselves, essentially, because they have to keep coming back, turning up and uh on that rabbit wheel, I guess, of uh of uh making sure that revenue is coming in. So super important they invest in themselves, um, they make smart decisions. To be honest, I believe the younger generation are really starting to embrace that a lot more. Obviously, we see the younger generation probably steering away from drinking, um, they're obviously focused a lot more on health and well-being. Um, and there's so much good information out there. There's a lot of um like influencers and aspirational people on social media. I follow plenty of them as well, and they give you a bit of a kick up the ass to steer you in the right direction from an investment point of view. Um, but yeah, it's just critical. Force savings is a great way to put it. Um, put yourself under a little bit of pressure, you're never gonna allow yourself to fail. So you're gonna start paying down that mortgage, and um you don't really compromise your life. You just start spending a little bit of money, you start looking for those specials, you start negotiating a bit when you go buy things, whatever that may be. So super, super important.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

And and it doesn't last, it it lasts for probably a year or two where you might go, cool, I'm in this situation of I I can't do some of those things I want to do. Um, after that period, you just find everything unshackles. Um one of the ladies I was working with, she's just finished building a home out in Byford, I think. Um at the end of building the home, her her repayments after having the the property valued was something like$350,$400 a week. Wow. You couldn't rent out there for that. So she's she's invested in herself for the last couple of years and found herself in a great position now. Absolutely. It opens up so many opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

100%. Uh like you said, uh income coming in, and just about anyone that bought a property in the last five years has done incredibly well, but we're still seeing property prices increase. So people are like, oh, I've missed the boat, I'm sitting out sitting on the sideline, should I invest interstate? Um, but we are talking to many developers, you know, one of the major developers at the moment that we work very closely with, um, they're talking about the next round of price increases. Uh, the demand is serious. Um, one of the biggest pressures we had as an industry last year was a undersupply of land stock. They just literally ran out of land to the point where we would have a client going, I want to buy a house and land package in Baldivas or Biford, and they'd be waiting six to eight weeks just for the next release of a block of land, and there'd be a release of four or five, six blocks, eight blocks, there'd be 200 people trying to buy them at once. That's coming back. Um, we're seeing demand, obviously, we see it on the ground, we're seeing stock levels diminish. We're waiting a week or two for a block of land now. Um, and talking to all the developers, they're like, prepare yourself because it's it's um they just literally can't keep up. Again, we have a finite amount of resources from a um civil contracting point of view. We've got a close friend that's in civil contracting, he um he's like, we've never, ever, ever been this busy, and it's like a tsunami of work coming at us, and we're having to turn work away. And there's only many so many uh civil contractors in WA, and there's only so many civil contractors that can be created in WA because there's just not a lot enough labour to create them. So um the housing shortage comes from multiple facets, like civil contracting. Um, you know, we've heard um I heard a scenario recently uh where Western Power they aren't energizing the sites because they can't get out there fast enough. Um so we're having to use generators to build the homes. Um I heard a story recently with a builder um that we work with, they have a client that is about to hand over, and Western Power still hasn't energized their site. So they're about to hand their home over with no power. And Western Power are like, we don't know when we're gonna have power your house up. So they're in this position of going, do we keep running generators? We literally can't move into a house because there's no power. That's government. So uh the the red tape and the um the labour shortages and the pressures are across all facets, um, and that's gonna be ongoing for an extended period of time. So with that much demand, um, that much shortage of stock, uh, there's pressures, we're gonna see property prices increase.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yep. And and I think second to that, the government it's unlikely that we're gonna see interest rates go up. We're probably gonna see interest rates come down. Um there's a few people out there at the moment, probably more so on the East Coast, that are that are doing a little bit tougher than we are over here. Yep. Um we'll see interest rates come down. If we see interest rates come down, that's probably gonna add more, add more opportunity to invest uh into that mix. Absolutely. More pressure on jobs, and and we'll see the market sustained. So I think we've got a little bit of a way to go in WA yet.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Absolutely, yeah. We look interest rates are anticipated. Victoria's obviously feeling it. Um it's very tough over there. Market is starting to improve. Obviously, New South Wales isn't performing as well as WA, but like you said, those rate drops is just going to further fuel that market. Uh, every rate drops about 15 grand approximately, give or take, um, to a borrowing power. So if we see uh sorry, every 0.25% drop adds uh 15 grand to people's borrowing power. So we have four drops, so a percent. That's another$45,000 potentially out on the market there. Um and we do anticipate those rate cuts. Um, every 0.25% drop we see, that's about$15,000 to borrowing power. So if we see multiple of those in a row, um we're gonna see more people with more money in their hands and they're gonna be driving those property prices up. Like we said earlier, property prices are the lowest they've ever been, pretty much historic uh lows. Um, they're at critical levels where there's a housing shortage. Uh, we're well below um that 4,000 mark. We can't build enough homes, so there is immense pressure. Uh so property uh property stock levels are at all-time low. Like I said earlier, uh we're below 4,000, and that's critical levels. So people are literally lining up for houses, um established um properties. There's multiple offers, they're usually selling within a week. Um, people are getting priced out of the market, and obviously, when you've got multiple offers going on in every property, people are getting just sheer desperation, and they're bidding higher and higher and higher every time that they miss out. So that's driving the prices up. Like I said earlier, we've got a constrained pipeline, we're not building enough houses, so property prices will continue to increase in Western Australia. So anyone sitting on the sideline, they need to really consider um what they can do currently. Um, people do look back and go, look, I'm making a compromise, I may not want to live in this area. Um, I I'm gonna save a bit more money and try to buy in an area that I want to achieve in, but you literally can't outsave the market unless you're earning really, really good money. Um, it's very, very hard to be out saving the market when we're seeing land got ten to fifteen thousand dollars a month at a time. Build prices are going up anywhere from one to two percent a month, um, which can equal anywhere from five to fifteen thousand dollars in a build contract, so it's um it's pretty serious. So if you can pull the trigger, um do it. Uh and a compromises it's all relative, right? Like my parents compromised when they built back in the day, and it was a sandpit, and that was Sorrento. So um that was out in the sticks back in the day. Um, I remember people never wanted to move to Alkamos five years ago. Alcamos is a thriving community now, and probably seen some of the biggest uh property growth uh percentages across WA. Um it's just absolutely boom. So get in while you can. Your first home's not always your forever home. So get into the market. Tell me about your first home.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

I bought a home when I was living in Newman years ago. So I shared the story of when I moved up to Newman. Um I I followed a similar philosophy on what else are you gonna do with your money? So what what else are you gonna do with it? Do you save, do you wait for property prices to come back? Um or or do you get in there? Do you get in there and then you're actually buffering along with the market? And that and that was really good to us. We we bought a place down in Mandra that we were thinking about going into. We didn't quite see the amount of capital growth there uh due to Mandra being a spot where probably surrounded by vacant land. Um that was a that was a learning for me as a first investor. Yep. We went into that industry, we had good tenants, we rented it out, we got some good depreciation, and it was fantastic for us in terms of what it did. Again, used the philosophy of forced savings. It forced us to stave while we were working away and put us in a really good position. We didn't make a lot on the capital growth side, um, but we did we did well off depreciation and the um the property and the rental income that we received. We sold that a few years later uh and we moved um into Palmyra, and and that was a great little spot. Um we stayed there for a few years and then um moved to where we are now.

unknown 38:41

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Um you're from Mantra originally? Grew up in Mandra. Yeah, Mandra Boy. Um and that's myself too. I invested in my backyard. So I invested on what I know, uh, probably what my parents told us as well. My old man was pushing me in certain areas, um, and I reflect, and obviously, I did a lot of developments, I invested in certain areas, I put all my eggs in one basket, um, just based on emotion and based on because I know it. Yep. Um, and that's a huge learning. And obviously, now I'm looking to purchase interstate and diversifying portfolio and having um at all types of different properties. I guess um that's the that's the key thing. Don't necessarily listen to the advice of your friends and family. Make sure you do consider markets holistically. You know, we're putting clients currently that have done really, really well in Western Australia, um, in Perth. They've boomed, uh, they bought a property three, four years ago, made some great capital growth, they're redeploying their capital now in Melbourne. Obviously, Melbourne's in a in a more challenging market. It's probably at the bottom of the cycle. Um, there's incredible building incentives over there. There's like$40,000 rebates on blocks of land, um, which we never even saw in WA, but they're obviously long gone, any rebate at all. Um so they're capitalizing on that market. Yes, the yield's a bit lower, uh, just like WA was five years ago. The yields are lower, the market's slow, it may take them a few, four, five weeks to get a tenant in there. But if you can batten down the hatches and navigate that and get through that, um, look at the people that bought five years ago or six, seven years ago in WA, when the market was down, how well they've done. So it's being a bit more strategic, not using emotions when investing, and making sure that you're getting the right advice when investing in property. I I think that's wise.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

And and not just for any investment, it's it's go and talk to the experts. Um read the papers, see what the experts are doing with their money. Um, and sort of nine times out of ten, there's an opportunity to follow and and and listen to them. For sure. You you're right. Had I had I gone and done that when I was a little bit younger, would I have would I have bought a home in Mandra? Potentially not. Mandra was good to us, like I said. Of course, yeah. So in terms of comparisons, in terms of growth opportunities, in terms of rental opportunities, there was much better out there that we we had foregone. Yep. Um, probably by listening to some of that that emotional advice that we got from people.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

So absolutely, and media is also a dangerous one to listen to, depending on what sort of media it is, like opinion pieces versus actual um economic papers, etc. Um, and often when there's blood on the streets and there's like uh negative media, it's actually a really good time to consider buying. Yep, it's really tough. You know, I'm currently trying to buy in an area that's um you know in a really challenging position from a property cycle point of view, and it is scary because you're like, is this recession ever going to turn around? But it will turn around. Like it's cyclical. We see WA went through a tough time, we then boomed, and I'm sure we'll go through a a more challenging time in the future. So um there's an old saying by Warren Buffett, um, when people are greedy, be fearful, and when people are fearful, be greedy. So um it's uh looking at those markets that are emerging, and um there are opportunity and uh putting your money in there strategic. Um in saying that, WA has been booming, but it's um it's still got a long way to go. Like you look at our median house prices comparatively to the rest of Australia. Yes, we've gone up a significant amount. We had a correction because we were unbelievably underpriced for a period of time. Um, and it's scary to think how much property prices have increased in the last five years, but we still compare ourselves to to Adelaide, we compare ourselves to Brisbane, we compare ourselves to um Sydney and Melbourne. Even Melbourne at the bottom of its property clock is still, you know, right there with us when they're going through the toughest time. We've got a lot of growth to go, um, and based on what we've been talking about with the resourcing industry, an incredible place to live, literally the most amount of sunshine than out of any other state in Australia. We've got incredible weather, and I think people are starting to um uh get a little bit over the Victorian weather potentially and um are loving it over here. So I've never in the last five years I've never spoken to so many people uh moving from Melbourne to WA. So it's it's we're diversifying and more cafes are popping up.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

State daddy McGowan really helped us coming out of COVID, didn't he? Um we we had a probably a reputation beforehand, but but we've created that view of we're a safe place to live, we're healthy, we've got good economy, we've got good lifestyles, we've got good weather, we've got the state government sponsoring that with the likes of UFC and other events coming to Perth, and and you hear the commentators that are are coming to the events and and talking about the events, talking about Perth, and it's a great spot to live.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Absolutely. It's like the uh worst kept secret, basically now. So, what excites you about the WR mining industry and its future ahead of it?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, really good question. There's there's lots happened, and there there probably hasn't been too much change in the mining industry over the last 50 years. The mining industry has has traditionally been uh turn big rocks into small rocks and and and we sell them. There's not a lot of science that goes along with it. I think what Fortescue and some of the big companies are up to now in terms of actually turning mining green, we're talking battery electric trucks, we're talking the largest amount of change that I've seen in my time in mining, um, let alone probably some of the people who have got the grey hair and they've been around fifty, sixty years in mining, it's gonna be massive. There's gonna be so many challenges that go along with it. We're really creating our own ecosystem of of productivity and energy that we need to manage. And it and it completely changes the game for mining. Um but it also changes the state for the better. Absolutely. There's gonna be in terms of emissions, in terms of pollution. It's absolutely the right thing to do. The whole world's talking about it. Uh the whole world is waiting for someone to go first and and show us how to do it. And Fortescue's gonna try and try and achieve that and take that batten and and we'll see how we go.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

I love that. And uh what are you seeing from a business point of view? Are you seeing companies embrace that uh I guess green technology and we're seeing people in or businesses in Western Australia starting to pop up based on that?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

We're seeing a few pop up. We're seeing we're seeing probably a few on each side. We're seeing a few with genuine products come through to um actually come and sell something that works and add value. Yep. We're seeing a few that are using it as an opportunity to to ride the marketing story and and and try and make a product and sell it. But there's gonna be a huge change that's gonna bring a whole new different group of people into the industry. Not only that, we're seeing graduates come through out of out of university and uh out of school and they say, I want to go and work for these companies that value green and that have a vision for the future. Um the young people are very different to when when we came out of school. Um that they've got that beliefs and and and they rally behind it. So um hopefully we see that change and and Fortescue will be there by by 2030. It's a great story. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

What are we seeing? Um jobs based on site, jobs based in Perth. Um, and are you seeing a shift and obviously with AI and automation and um managing things remotely? Um, what's that split? And we're seeing more and more jobs um coming available in the metro area or the Perth area. Um how's that looking? Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

We are. Look, if you go back 10-15 years ago, we saw the remote operations centres start to pop up. I think Rio went first with their one out at the airport, and BHP and uh Fortescue followed, and and now it's a lot easier for some of the juniors to go down that track as well, where the majority of the operations and the controlling of equipment will be done from Perth. So we've seen that been done already, which is great. I think what some of the mining companies expected to happen years ago, we would see a transition quicker of roles back to Perth. We have seen a large number of roles come back, but it probably hasn't been as quick in some areas as as we would have expected. So I think that's the next piece of how do we harness robotics? How do we how do we harness AI? Um hopefully Elon's humanoid comes through a little bit quicker and we can we can get those robots doing some of those simple tasks that that we shouldn't be exposing our people to, be it heavy lifting or or other things, how can we replace some of those difficult tasks for um for for high-risk jobs that will remove people from that?

SPEAKER_00 46:35

For sure. And with automation technology, um, are you seeing for excuse um teams diversifying and you have to embrace more technology-based people, IT-based people? Are you seeing that team move?

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah, we are, we are, but we'll also a certain amount of upskilling as well. So as you go and turn an autonomous fleet full of truck drivers into uh a robotic fleet that they drive themselves, autonomous, um, there's large amounts of training that have been put in from all the organizations on how do we make sure we look after those people, we keep them, we retrain them in other skills. Some will stay on site doing other bits and pieces, um, some will transition to Perth and and go into controller roles or working behind a computer doing designing of mine sites and hall roads and other bits and pieces to make the operation run. So people are looked after, um, and and we're seeing it through the statistics in the United States at the moment of robotics is replacing a certain amount of people, but it's creating jobs, just as many on the other side as people that need needed to go and drive those robotics. So we're gonna see the same here.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, Mark. It's been very, very cool. Um yeah, love having you here. It's great. Thanks for having me. I've had a great time, um, and I wish you all the best. Thank you for listening today. A special shout out to Mark Olenhoven for sharing his insights in the WA mining industry. Thank you for listening to Own It, the Property Podcast, where we talk about things that are shaping the Perth economy from mining all the way through to property. The future of WA isn't just happening to us, we're building it together. If you found today's chat helpful, share it with a mate, subscribe, or leave us a review.