S2 E4 - Stop Chasing Titles with Claire Painter

On this episode of Leadership Unscripted with Dr. Greg Steely, we’re joined by Claire Painter, Associate Director of Student Leadership at the University of Central Oklahoma. Claire leads and shapes high-impact programs including the President’s Leadership Council, Leaders of Tomorrow, TEDxUCO, and the Nigh Leadership Academy, equipping students to lead with purpose, clarity, and conviction.

In this conversation, Claire unpacks what it really means to develop student leaders in today’s world. From understanding how Gen Z defines leadership and purpose, to building transformational experiences that extend beyond the classroom, she shares practical insight into how young leaders grow into individuals who influence systems, not just spaces. She also challenges common misconceptions about leadership and highlights the ongoing importance of servant leadership in higher education.

As institutions and organizations look to prepare the next generation, this conversation offers a grounded, forward-looking perspective on leadership development that lasts. Watch or listen now to Leadership Unscripted.

Leadership Unscripted is brought to you by Growing Leaders a program of the Maxwell Leadership Foundation. Learn more about Growing Leaders at Growingleaders.com and Maxwell Leadership Foundation by Visiting Maxwellleadership.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I personally don't think we can be effective leaders if we don't care about what we're doing. Values are really what get us up out of bed every day, um, but also what sustain good leadership and good decision making. Leadership starts with us, but it doesn't end with us. And so if we're not passionate about what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I'm more excited to be with our guest today. Claire Painter is the Associate Director of Student Leadership. She leads the Nye Leadership Academy. At the heart of who she is, is it's about the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Kind of your thoughts a little bit. Your host, Greg Steel. You already did that. Welcome to Leadership by Script. That's one of the better ones I've heard. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Hello, welcome to this episode. I am very excited as I'm here on an unbelievable university campus, University of Central Oklahoma. This place is magnificent. Uh we just walked through this campus and it's just beautiful. Students everywhere, which I love. I love to see students walking around campus. But I'm more excited to be with our guest today. Claire Painter is the Associate Director of Student Leadership. Any place that has people that are leading students and leadership on a campus, we are for and we are here. She has a plethora of things in her background that she is really good at. But she leads the president's uh leadership, student leadership council, the Nye Leadership Academy, um, and a bunch of other things that we'll talk about in here. But the at the heart of who she is is it's about the next generation. It's about leadership, it's about showing the next generation what leadership looks like. Uh, we talked a little bit uh earlier with the president and talked about how we believe that the next generation, it's not about the problems, it's about the potential, right? And Claire believes in that. So, Claire Painter, welcome. It's an honor to be here with you on this campus. Thank you for being with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Thanks for having me. Absolutely to chat.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Well, great. Um, let's get started.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

So you do a lot of things here on the campus. I mean, as usual, you work for a university and so you just get a lot of different hats.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

So you will lead academies and you lead a leadership council. I want you to talk a little bit about what it's like the difference for a for a young person to participate in leadership as as opposed to becoming a leader. Talk about how y'all manage that.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Sure. So I definitely think, especially when students first get to the university, they maybe have had a more cookie cutter or what people would view as a traditional leadership journey. Maybe they've done student counsel or participated in different committees or or things like that within their community, um, and not always have really embraced leadership as their identity, more as positional. And so we really work with students on who am I as a leader and what are the leadership capabilities that I possess with my own unique identity and personality. Um, and so while we do have them participate in events and go to things, really work with them on developing that own leadership identity and in who that is and authentic to them, um, which we see always trans for most part, I shouldn't say always, we can never say absolutes, but uh the majority of our students end up transforming into wonderful, amazing leaders who it's really built into their identity. It's built into their everyday actions. And so that's what I probably say is the difference between participating versus becoming a leader. Um the students who really put in the work to figure out what are my values, what does that mean for my leadership and the impacts that I want to have, and how can I incorporate that into my daily life because leadership is not just about, as we know, the the big titles or the the big events that we're doing, but how we're making impacts daily. Yeah. Um and so that's what really we really challenge our students in. And that's the work we start with them as soon as they arrive on campus and are in our programs.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

That's so good. Yeah, we uh I talk a lot about leadership today, it's less about titles and more about time. Yeah. It's about the time you invest in others, the time you invest in yourself to become a leader. And that's that's what you guys are doing. That's how you're teaching that, which is really, really incredible. Talk about how the hunger you're seeing from this next generation on they they want to become a leader. And like you said, some of them come from this cookie cutter, you know, they may or may not have leadership modeled well in their life. Yes. Talk about this hunger that they have to understand and learn more about leadership.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I definitely think this generation is very passionate about making a difference. They they are driven by wanting to feel like they're doing something that matters, that has meaning. They are passionate about um about helping others. So their leadership is definitely while everyone likes to have things on their resume, sure, for the future, it's not as self-serving as as maybe some past generations at the beginning before they've really identified their own leadership. They are, I've noticed a trend typically coming here and they're already like, well, I want to be a leader because I want to make an impact in this community or for this thing that I care about, really see them valuing the things that matter and have meaning to them versus the things that are maybe what they think they should be doing, or like, oh, this would be a good title, whatever. So they're definitely not as positionally driven and more about authenticity and and doing things that align with their values um in accordance with making a difference in the areas that they're passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I love that. You've mentioned values a couple of times. Talk a little bit about why you think that's important in leadership.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

I think it's important in leadership because I personally don't think we can be effective leaders if we don't care about what we're doing. Um so if I didn't value, you know, building up others and and wanting to see other people make great impacts on our community, I wouldn't be able to do my job every day. Um and values are really what get us up out of bed every day, um, but also what sustain good leadership and good decision making and long-term impacts within our community because leadership starts with us, but it doesn't end with us. And so if we're not passionate about what we're doing and don't value like the people that we're working with or the missions that we're serving, it's not gonna go very far. It will stop with us um and not continue that kind of ripple effect that we hope to see within leadership. Um, because we tell our students all the time uh great leaders turn other people into leaders as well. Um, so we we don't want that to stop with us. We want those impacts to keep happening uh for generations to come. And that starts with doing things that we care about and align with what we're passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

I love that. Talk talk about because you know, values is not always in today's society, it's it it can be a very polarizing statement, right? Because people will say, Well, you're not gonna teach me what I should value. How do y'all balance that with this generation who who's very passionate about what they believe, right? And they don't want to be taken off that line if if it's something that is against what they believe. How do y'all how do you work around that balance?

SPEAKER_02 6:54

So I think we don't necessarily tell students what they should value. Um we talk to them about how to identify what they care about and thought it's okay for that to be different than the person who's sitting next to them, but also how to navigate conversations with people who maybe valued things that are different than them and might be on totally opposite ends of the spectrum. And I have noticed with this generation, especially they are much more aligned and about having um civil discourse with their with their uh fellow students. Yes, um, um, I think a lot of them are turned away by really um combative individuals who aren't willing to talk about things. They, even though they might be strong in in what they care about and what they stand for, they're much more willing to listen to people who care about things different than them. That might not change their mind, and that's okay, but they're willing to learn from them and open their eyes to other perspectives. Um, especially we have a lot of students who are from smaller communities that maybe have the same mentality as a lot of people, and so I love seeing them come to our university and have the chance to really meet people from other areas and expand upon that view and um learn more about like why they believe what they believe and why it's important, but also be challenged in that.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah. That's so good. One of the things that I noticed on the a class that I think you teach, we we were talking about one of the classes that you were teaching. I'm gonna mention that in a second, because if you want to come here, you should come here and take this class. So um you y'all do a uh a servant a servant leadership class. Yes. Which is which servanthood's a value, yeah, right? And it and like you said, we don't we don't push value, but we're highly recommending that this is a value, and we know this next generation, which you mentioned earlier, is all about service. They really want to make a difference, right? They really want a cause to get behind in order to make it's not about them, but the world teaches them be very about yourself, right? So talk a little bit about that that class and just the feedback you get from students and the growth you see there.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yes. So um, well, the class is based on uh Robert K. Greenleaf Servant Leadership Theory, the father of servant leadership. So we start there and talk some about just the theory at that level. But really, uh uh with all of our classes, all of our content, we try our hardest to put it back in into the application into how it applies to them, of course. So um we do a lot of discussing and case studies and things around, okay, if you were in this scenario, like how what would be your response and how how would that be service-minded or what would be be the implications if you responded differently and all of those things. So putting them in those real world circumstances, I think helps them see um with the class is called servant leadership and action. Yeah. Um, so not just, okay, let's talk about servant leadership and oh, it's nice and we love serving others. Like if we're actually put in a situation, what does that look like? Because it's not always black and white of how I'm gonna respond. Um, but kind of not to talk about values again, but going back to like ethically, okay, like I think this is how I would respond to like have the most good for the most people. Um, and those others who maybe aren't impacted by this decision, let me think of other ways that I could still like serve them and make impacts there. Um, so we talk a lot about that, as well as just the value or the um not values, the characteristics of government leadership. And really, in my opinion, you can't have leadership without service. Um, it's really hard and sh like to separate both of them. I don't think they should be separated either. Um, so while we're not telling them they have to want to serve in XYZ places, um, I do think teaching them that the two go together is important. That's good. Um, and service doesn't have to mean doing a trash pickup, whatever the case may be, but caring for your fellow human and wanting to do well for them and and serve them that in that capacity um is a lot of what we talk about.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

That's good. I mean service can be just like you said, it doesn't have to be. A lot of people think like I, you know, I'm I need to go work in a homeless shelter or I need to you c you can, that's great. That'd be great. But sometimes it's just listening.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Right? Just shut down yourself, listen. Or or it's uh being saying kind words to someone who needs it. And that's that's a level of service I think in this generation, sometimes we say they want to make the big, you know, I want I want to go, you know, serve on the line, you know. And lots of times if we just start with that less of a noticed service of listening or speaking, and that's what I love about what you're talking about, marrying those two is really, really good. Okay, let's talk about leadership and diving.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

So there listen, if if you're if you are going to come here or you're gonna send a student here or your or your child here, all right, to this to this university, there's two things you need to understand that we've learned here. One, President Lamb will buy coffee free for students in Starbucks, all right? So show up every day and wait for this this good-looking dude with a beard and hair, and he's gonna come, he's gonna buy you coffee. That's one. Okay, so you get free coffee almost every day, probably. You could get it easy. Yes. The second is they have a class called Leadership and Diving. At first you would think they're just putting leadership there to make it sound like it needs to have something because they're really going to dive in Cozumel. But it's so interesting when you talked about that. Um, you don't have to go into details, but talk about the importance of those types of activities, diving or whatever it might be, to grab out that we can learn leadership from the from the things we enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yes, absolutely. So um diving actually has a lot of leadership characteristics, so nonverbal communication, teamwork, um, all of those types of things. And those are present in everyday interactions, everyday things that we're doing. Um, because it is from those experiences that we actually learn the most about leadership. We can sit in a classroom or a workshop uh and hear things all day long, but putting them in action is really whenever they become a part of our leadership identity that comes, yeah, from from learning new things, from challenging ourselves in those areas. We have a lot of students in that class specifically, or who have maybe gone on other cultural experiences that are really out of their comfort zone or tried a new student organization or whatever the case may be who are really challenged and in okay, well, I thought that I was a good communicator, but now that I'm doing this and I'm scared of being underwater, or whatever the case may be, I realize that like I shut down whenever I'm in new new experiences that feel uncomfortable to me or whatever the case may be. So we're able to have really great conversations with students about um how to navigate um leadership in the real world and within the things that we're doing outside of just our organizational positions or whatever, and it really makes it a lot more um sentient and personal for them.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I love that. Yeah. I love the fact that you guys are taking this principle that people need to understand that leadership is everywhere, right? It's everywhere because you're a leader, and where you go, leadership follows you. So it follows you in your classroom and your hobbies and your home. It's really, really good. All right, we're gonna finish up with this rapid fire.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Are you ready? We think you're prepared for it.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

I don't know. We'll see you.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Okay. So I read a little bit about what you like to do in your free time.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

So you like to be on the lake, uh-huh, right, with your husband.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

And your dog.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Okay, what kind of dog?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

She's a lab mix.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Um, I actually also have I haven't updated my bio. I have uh five and a half month-old twins now, also. So they will be coming to the lake with us next summer. Congrats. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

We have um Lauren, Lauren at at our um at our office just had twins.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

And they're probab similar to the same age.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Uh yeah, she's in Las Vegas, so not to totally throw you off, but yes. Uh so the twins and the dog. Mabel is our dog's name. Mabel. She's a loud name.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

So they're all, so they're all now you now it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Now you have a lot. Yeah. Right? It's not a little, now it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Well, yeah, a family of three to a family of five because she is a family member.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Of course. Yes. And we're one of those. Right. We applaud that. Yep. Um, okay. Spotify first.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

If we were to open up your little Spotify account, you are going to have who in the top three songs on your Spotify list.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Oh, that is such a hard question. I've I've loved music my entire life. It is a huge part of who I am. So that is a very difficult question. Um, currently I've really been I've been listening to Olivia Dean a lot. She has a new album called The Art of Loving. It's very good. It's kind of like RB, poppy, jazzy. It's really good. So she'll probably be up there for me in my Spotify rap this year. Um, I'm a big Taylor Swift fan. Okay. Um, grew up listening to her. So yeah. You know, just a little lady named Taylor She's successful. She'll probably be up there. I've been listening to an artist named Patrick Droney, a lot. Also, he's more a singer, songwriter, um, but his lyrics are really, really good. I've I've seen him live a couple of times, and he's just very phenomenal artist.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

So you're the music equivalent of a foodie, is what what it sounds like, right? You're music-y. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

I pretty much listen to a bit of everything.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And a lot of new people. And you want to know who would be at the top of my yeah, I'd love to I don't know if you've even heard of these people before because I'm very old.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Pink Floyd. Yes. Okay. Led Zeppelin.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Rush.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah, I love all of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Okay. Yes. Yeah, they should all open for Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

More people would go listen to them than Taylor Swift, I would think, right? Come on.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

I think it would draw a diverse crowd for sure. Uh, but I love all of the like classic styles.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

You like all styles and you could listen to just about anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah. All right, last question. Your twins.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Love their mom.

unknown 16:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

What do you want them to say? They graduate from college. What do you want them to say about their mom and her leadership?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Oh gosh, that is oh, that's gonna make me tear up thinking about them being that old. Um there I have a boy and a girl. I don't think I said that earlier, but I think they I would love for them to say that their mom is a compassionate individual who truly has a desire for developing others and helping them see their own potential and finding success. Um, not not for her own personal gain, but because of the way she cares about the world around her. And uh that includes wanting our world to be a better place for my children. Um, and I hope that I can raise them to be kind, caring, compassionate leaders who are authentic to what they care about as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

That's awesome. Well said. I think that's a mic drop. That was great.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

And and I believe you're doing that now.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

With your students here. And that's that, you know, your your kids are gonna see that, which is great. Thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for serving the next generation uh and for being on this podcast. You were, Claire, you were a breath of fresh air. You were great, your answers were great. And uh thanks for taking the time away from what you have, which is an extensive amount of work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Okay, I it doesn't feel like work the majority of the time.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

There you go. Majority of the time. I love that. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, and thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed that. Yeah.