Discipline Over Dopamine: Build Systems That Actually Work with David Dunham

Most men don’t fail from lack of information - they fail from lack of clarity and conviction.

In this episode, Whitney Sewell sits down with Dave Dunham to talk about his journey from success to near collapse - and how faith, discipline, and decisive leadership helped him rebuild.

From leading his family through crisis to redefining success beyond revenue, Dave shares hard-earned lessons on why indecision is dangerous and why conviction matters more than knowledge.

If you’re feeling stuck or unsure of your next step, this episode will challenge and encourage you to lead with clarity.

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Download Whitney’s Personal Operating System:
 https://courageousmen.com/personal-operating-system

Learn more:
 https://www.whitneysewell.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

55% of the time they're only doing half of the work. The other 45% of the time, they're doing 60% of their own work. But it says the owner, you can't lower your standard. Your standard is the standard to which it has the business run. AI can only replace the doers, not the decision makers. Discipline over dopamine. How can I be disciplined to be able to get this over time? Welcome to the Courageous Men Podcast, where we help Christian men follow God faithfully, love their families well, and build a legacy that lasts. And now your host, Whitney Stewart.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

This is a courageous men podcast. Thank you for listening again today. I hope you are encouraged to lead in your business and in your home and in your community in ways for the Lord you've you've never been encouraged to do before. Our guest today is going to do just that as well. He spent years uh building successful gyms and coaching entrepreneurs and helping business owners move from chaos to disciplined leadership. But something that really stood out to me is his focus on decisive leadership and in business and in faith and also how he leads his family. You know, he he walked through many tough seasons and where his faith and convictions were, you know, just required him to make very hard decisions professionally. Uh his name is Dave Dunham. Uh, and you're gonna learn so much from him today. And and I I love some details. Even I was about to end the podcast, and then he said something else that challenged me in a big way. So I encourage you to listen to the end. Dave, in your experience working with entrepreneurs and gym owners, you know, you've seen how much hesitation and indecision can hold a business back. Why do you think so many leaders struggle to make clear decisions?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I think that most uh leaders struggle with indecision is because information is free, but experience is not. And what that basically means is is that there is no shortage, especially like now in the day and age that we're in. Like you can look up everything, there's a GPT for it, there's something that is out there to make your your searching power easier because it's all at your fingertips. But like what people don't put enough caveat on or they don't put enough like thought process into is the fact that like that the experience that goes along with it is what we have to cherish, right? And that experience is what creates our ability to not just lead, but to lead by example and to lean through what we know. And to me, like that's where the most growth comes from. Every business or every entrepreneur that I've ever worked with, that CEO or that owner has like cut their teeth somehow in that industry. And then to be honest with you, that's how I can tell you if you're gonna be successful or not in what you're doing, is based on the experiences that you had. Now, don't get me wrong, like I'm not saying that like you have to struggle with everything you do. So, like, don't don't don't think that it's just like there's you there you gotta go out and you gotta grind to get it because I don't believe that. But I think that like there has to be this level of experience that you have that you put in the work to be able to get to where you need to, so you have some sort of constructive base that you can make and that you can lead with. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

It does. I I love that thinking, and the experience is what we have to cherish. That's what uh and that's it's where the learning really happens, right? Uh and that's how many it's prepping you so much for future experiences uh and for growth.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, and it's a hundred percent as to why, like, and we we can take this in a in a whole nother rabbit hole, but like it's why stories always work, right? Is that if you if you really think about like fables and stories, I mean the Bible, like all these things that we basically that we go off of, the reason why people get so enthralled in what they are and then find the meaning behind it is because the story leads to the belief, and then the belief leads to the action. And so if you really are looking at things about like what makes individuals phenomenal leaders, it's like they go through the thing, they're able to, they're able to tell the story, but they're able to tell the story in a way that can be expounded upon or that can a person can own their own interpretation of what it was that creates belief, and that belief creates action, and then that action creates momentum, that momentum creates success.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

What have you seen happen in businesses when uh a leader finally starts making decisions with say clarity and conviction?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Exponential growth, right? And so the reason why I say that is because like my grandpa used to say is like there's no way to catch fish in muddy water. And so, like, it's the truth is like if you're looking down and you can't see like ahead of your feet, or you can't see where you're putting the line, you're the likelihood of you catching something is few and far in between. However, like if you think about it, that's why people love to go deep sea fishing. That's why they love to go and fish in ponds and lakes, is because they can see the fish are out there, then it's a matter of like their skill and expertise that takes them to be able to take in the big hauls. And so the same thing I think works in business is clarity always creates this decisive behavior. And then once we create that decisive behavior, we create actions, and then once those actions happen and you move, right? Even my shirt, right? Profit favors a decisive, and it's the absolute belief in what we have, is because it's more important for you to be decisive and make a decision based on clarity of your goals, clarity on what your standards are, and then create the and then create momentum than it is for to have anything else.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

I've seen it so many times personally, you know, across my team. When I can gain clarity to them, like exactly what they're responsible for, exactly what they're, you know, we're measuring success. Like the blinders come off for them too. And like now they can make decisions like they've never made before as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

If everybody we used to um, one of the teams that I led was a group of ex-gym owners who were coaches, and the way that we simply did it was it was like we gave our team, like I'm big on edifying and adding persona to teams, right? Is that I think that like if you can do that, then it creates ownership pretty immediately in things. And like we do the same thing like in business models too. But we did this with a team and we referred to ourselves as the 96 Bulls, right? And if you think about the 96 Bulls, the 96 Bulls, the reason why I did that was for a couple reasons, right? Number one, 96 Bulls were the most at the time were the most prolific basketball team to ever touch the Graces architect floor, right? Number two is because the Bulls were made not just of superstars, but they were made of all types of individuals that had specific roles that they dug into because that role led to the overall success. And then number three, even though they had the best player in the world, the best player in the world held a standard for the others, right? And there's I can even go off into a Michael George story, but on top of that, the last part is that they had Phil Jackson. The reason why this is the most important is because the best players in the world had a coach who was able to point out their blind spots and allow them to do the things that they were able to do, but keep them, keep them in line in order to be successful. And so, like as we built the team, that's exactly how we did it was truly understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the individuals that were on the team, understanding who the A players on that team, giving them the ability to set the structure and the standard behind it, as long as it held into the standard that we wanted to achieve for the entire company, and then running it that way. So I was Phil Jackson, those guys, we had a group of advisor guys, like those, those were my Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, if you will. And then we had the other people that were there to kind of work their way through it. So I it made it so much easier to run with because there was so much clarity behind those individuals. It made that that team an instant success.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

I read, I think it was Phil Jackson's biography or something a number of years ago. I can't remember the name of it, but yeah, I just remember thinking, man, this is good. So much to learn from that.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

There's a cool story. Um, and I think it's in Relentless, or maybe I heard it.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Oh, that's it. I think that's the name of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah. And so maybe I heard Tim Grover talk about it on a podcast, or I read it in the book. I don't, I don't remember, right? Like again, information in there. He talks about like um one of the reasons like Michael Jordan was the best player on the planet, but probably one of the least like individuals as a teammate, right? And the reason why is because his standards were so unreal, but his standards were unreal because of the expectations that he had for the individuals that were around him to be able to hold the bar with him, right? So the story goes is like he used to tell individuals on his team that he wouldn't give them the ball unless he was assured that they can make nine out of 10 shots, right? Now think about it, shooting 90% as a professional, right? Is it probably can happen, right? Like we've I don't know if you've ever been to like a shoot around and seen guys shoot or anything like that. Like those guys are good, they're professionals, like that's what they do, right? But the ability to intensify that based on the expectations of the greatest player, I think it raises the bar of the other individuals that are on the team. And so, like, you may not like it while you're in the moment, but at the end of the day, like you grow to appreciate it after because like that pressure creates diamonds, and then that led, yeah, that that obviously led to the success that they had on their runs.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

I I'm I I've never followed basketball a ton in my life, but I was so impressed by that book, learning about Michael Jordan, you know, those standards, just like you're talking about, even if he said nine out of ten and they got to seven out of ten, then they're probably still better than most, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Like so it's like is you're still inadvertently. He like so, like the the root story of it is is like he knew that he couldn't win without them, but at the end of the day, like he had to understand like how to raise their standard without just being like, hey, you're not good at this. It was like, no, like let's figure out a conducive way for us to do this and be successful. So the ability to be successful also is to if you're always ready, then you never have to get ready. And so, like, if in your head you innately have to hit nine shots, the one time that you get a shot, there's probably not going to be more pressure than what you've already faced in practice. So the ability to hit that shot becomes so much easier when you're like when you're in the game that it becomes just like routine work to you.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Wow, that's incredible. Hey Dave, is there a moment maybe in your own journey where you've realized that uh indecision was uh say costing you something, could be personally or professionally?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

There's a lot. Uh and so let's say indecisive from a business standpoint. When I first opened my gyms, right? So we had we were my wife and worked really hard, we had really good advisors over the course of time. We had advisors in different realms, right? I was we were really looking back on it now, it's like, man, like we really structured this thing really well. Like God was really looking out for us. Um, because I started off with a tech advisor who taught me how to run ads and how to understand KPIs and how to look at numbers. Then I had a guy, I think next to the next move was like my coach got hired by like Bedros. We taught me like processes and systems, and we did really well with there. And then I had, you know, the next phase was like I hired Alex Mosey and we were in gym, we were in Gym Launch, uh, using Gym Launch as a client before I actually went to work there. And so we learned uh front-end offers and acquisition costs and those things. So the story is we joined Gym Launch at a point where it was a really pivotal point for us. And I remember being on the call with the sales guy and then talking to Alex to in Alex Club. So I remember being there and I was like, man, it's my last thousand dollars. Like this is legit. I don't if if this is my last bit of money, and uh if this doesn't work, then I don't know what I'm gonna do as a business owner. And keep in mind, like we had made hundreds of thousands of dollars. We had opened up multiple gyms, but like we were like every other gym that you see, or every other business that you see that grows fast, it's like we were bloated. Payroll was I was fast to hire and slow to fire, right? That's the opposite of what it should be. Um, I was going through all those pieces, and the the decisive moment came into this was I remember talking to sales guy, his name is Dylan, taught me through all the processes, like, I'm gonna let you sit with this for a little bit. And I was like, man, I don't know, dude. Like I've had a coach before, and you know, and it worked. And then I stopped working because I got a little, you know, I got a little, I got a little ego driven in the situation. And so I need to, I don't know if this is gonna be the right move for me. So we hop on a call, and uh he's like, I'm gonna, he's like, I think you're gonna be a good fit. I'm gonna turn you over and let you talk to the the owner, Alex. And and Alex is like, okay, he's like, uh, so tell me about yourself. And again, this is all ego at the time. And I'm like, man, like I've been in these programs and I've made like thousands of dollars and I've done all this stuff. And he's like, Well, the math just told me you're it's you're on your last thousand dollars. So, like, explain to me how he got here.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

And I said, Oh, well, there it is. And so um, he we we walk through and he talks me through it, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna join. And I remember I was like, It's my last thousand dollars, like last, like legitimately, we have to pay rent, like we're getting ready to have a k another kid, we're going through this entire process, and you know, I get off the phone and I remember laying in bed with Heather because I'm up, right? And my Heather's my uh my forgiving wife, and uh I lay in bed with her and I'm like, babe, I was like, I just spent a thousand bucks on this coaching program, but they guaranteed it's gonna work. And she rolled over and she's like, I love you. She's like, if it doesn't work, we don't work, and there's no motivation in the world like that. And I remember we got ads live in like seven days, and we had so many opportunities in that first seven days that we were almost like paralysis of like what have we done because we've had so we've got so many opportunities that are there. And I remember us talking, and I said, you know, this is the point where our life will change forever, and we never look back, and we lockstep and we just never look back. And that is the moment I would say from a personal standpoint, I guess it's a little bit of business too, but like that is where the indecision almost cost me my marriage, but it also almost cost me my business because at the end of the day, like I was a little hesitant on making the decision that I knew I needed to, more so because I was afraid of being successful, what the outcome would have looked like more than anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:31

So you you were afraid of being successful, yeah, without a doubt, without a doubt, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

And this is from a guy who like I've you I've been like kind of joked, but like I've been like a one percent guy like my my life, right? Like I've played football, I've been an all-American, I've played on a phenomenal high school football team that was the best football team in the state of Florida, one of the best in the country. Like I've been, you name it, like I've been able to do it. Like, and you know, you still you still have those doubts and you still have to fall back on faith and you still look it for you still look for little things, right? Like I'm a guy who like let me look for a sign when in all actuality, like the sign is already there uh in your belief system and how you approach things. So I wasn't really looking for a sign, I need to reassess and probably like refocus on my goals. Does that make sense? Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

There's so many things we could talk about about what you just mentioned. I want to dive in on one critical point there. And you know, you talk about you shared that uh with your bride uh and the response that you got. Walk us through maybe how you led her uh, you know, over the the next number of months and how your family moved forward and you know, as you're leading your your spouse through that.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, like to a fault, right? Like I think that like we all get to a point where like we're we have this level of delusion at that time. Like I so I'm let me throw this out there too, right? Um this is gonna be counterintuitive to what we just said. So take this with a take this as we're going through and as we're talking through the process, is that by nature I'm a decisive individual. So I met my wife, we dated for six months, and we got married. Like I am decisive, right? Like I know what I want, and then that's what I go after. Um, but in the same token, when it came down to this, I based what I was doing off of who I thought my that my identity was in the situation, which is why I led when I spoke to Alex about like what I'd done in the past and how great that these things were, but they didn't really amount to a ton. And they did because they were great for a short amount of time, but they weren't great for a long period of time. When it came down to like Heather and her decision, I had to give her space because I understood where she was coming from, right? I knew exactly where she was coming from because while she loved me, she also understood like she had basically left a six-figure job to come help me with this gym. And so where she was coming from wasn't a place of like of love, but it wasn't a place that she had that same level of delusion or grandeur, if you will, that I had. And so when we were walking through the process, it's like one, I had to give her space because I needed to make sure that like she understood what it was. Two, is I will give and I'll lay out like the full plan to individuals and then allow them the ability to interpret it and then give it to me how they what the interpretation is so I can answer questions directly for them. This goes back to like the clarity conversation, right? And so like I had to lay out like exactly what it looked like what do we have to do, how we do it, what does success look like for us? We had to like manage all those things because if she's already on the fence, allowing her to create these variations of this path in her mind wasn't going to be the most successful. And then after that, what I did was I just stuck to my word and I stuck to what I said I was gonna do. Now there's bumps and bruises along the way, right? Don't get me wrong. There's bumps and bruises in that thing. Like, you know, there were refunds. Experiences, right? 100%, right? So that's this is so that's where the reframe came from. It's like because there was like there are experiences that happen along the way. There are refunds and there are hard conversations and you letting go of coaches, and there's all things that happen along the way, but like those we ended up chalking up as we got stronger and as we built up our skin in the business, is those things led to being a hundred percent experiences that we look back on, and even like we talk about it now. I was like, if we wouldn't have those things, we wouldn't be where we are today.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, and I think even that that was preparing you even for a bigger transition that you all made later, too, right? I know you all went through a major transition, and maybe you can walk us through a little bit of that or a little bit of that season, too, is you and your bride have now had these experiences that you were talking about, right? And now you're moving through another transition together that I that I know is a difficult season.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, it was pretty difficult, right? So, like we had made the transition. I was with, you know, we were with these other people, and they were like, oh man, like you need to open up multiple gyms and you do all these things. And we had opened up like three gyms, and I opened up one that was like the you know, the you and so like it's funny to say it back now because like when you when you really think about it like man, like that's pretty brazen and pretty egocentric to to kind of think that way because it wasn't serving what it was supposed to serve. And so, like, we can get on that in a minute too, because like we wrote scriptures on the on the pylons and all those things, but like it wasn't that wasn't really what it ended up equaling out to, which is well, I also believe that like it it never took off the way it was supposed to, but that's a whole nother part of the conversation. So I'm really tough for us. So, and that's what led to the decision to look for another opportunity, maybe with another form of guidance or with another person was because like we had gotten to a point where we were like, what are we gonna do? Like, um, you know, business wasn't there. I had a coach leave and he left and he took clients with him, which you know, I mean, there's not really he can't take somebody who's not willing to go. So at the end of the day, that means that like we didn't do the things that we were supposed to do because we were so wrapped up in what we were doing. So the time was really tough. And you talk about going from making$120,000 a month, we were down to like, you know, I want to say like eight or nine thousand dollars a month. So I so like really think about that, yeah. Right? It's like$120K down to like eight thousand dollars a month, three gyms down to one, full classes of 40 people down to eight or ten. Like, you know, we we went through it before we were able to kind of build momentum and create clarity for ourselves. So, like we legitimately, you name it, we went through it during that time period. We had some crazy things happen too, which I'm kind of appreciative as well. Like, we had two coaches who left us during that time period, and one left and it hurt because I spent a lot of time with him. He just learned from it, right? And then another person left and he actually went and committed a crime in his work shirt from us, like he robbed a bank. Yeah, um, he went and robbed a bank in his work shirt, which is absolutely crazy. But in the same token, uh, we learned a lot in the situation. And I remember spending less than a thousand dollars, and I remember just praying and saying, you know, it's the same thing, right? It's like if I get this opportunity or if I create this opportunity, I will never be in this position again. I've never publicly said this, so I'll and so like this is kind of new stuff, but like we were at a point where you know we'd given up everything and and we had given up our house. Like, so imagine being a dad with four little kids, and you were sleeping in a friend's room with you, your wife, and four kids, but you own a business. And I remember just laying there and being like, My life has to change. And we went from that to praying every night, working our way through the process and saying if we give this opportunity, we won't look back. And like I said, we we didn't.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Wow. The Lord brought you to praying though, right? Brought you back to him. Sounds like you got you got more of the Lord in the process.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Yeah, and like um, you know, the the wild thing on it is is like my my wife and my mom used to always say that they kind of were kindred spirits, but on a different on a different level. And one of the things that they always tell you or that they always tell me in situations, is like, I always pray for abundance, right? So like we always pray and we always put what we want out, and then from that standpoint, the Lord will deliver. And that legitimately is how we looked at the situation. So it wasn't a matter of like, you know, praying for peace in the situation. It was like, no, God, like here's what we want. Show us the way in order, or you know, put us in direction in order to get to that point in regards to like what you see fit and how you see fit. And, you know, when we reconnected with the church and, you know, we did some soul searching amongst ourselves because there's a lot of things that like, you know, that I needed to fix in order to hold myself accountable. And we did those things in order to push forward that I think that really separated us at the time.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Looking back now, Dave, you know, I'm thinking about like the men who are listening who may feel stuck in a scenario like that, you know, as well. Maybe they're in a job or business or just a situation. That no longer aligns with who they are or their convictions. And how would you advise them now, after this experience, you know, experience that you've had, how would you advise them to begin to discern that? You know, maybe the difference between you know quitting and and stepping out in faith as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

So this is where like you know, faith and goals kind of get attached hand in hand, at least in in my mind, on how things truly work is like the first thing that we really wanted to do. And I this is a credit 100% to my wife, right? So like I feel like you know that I know she's gonna watch this and she's gonna be like, oh, like I told you, like I'm like, yeah, like eight years later I can say it. Truth of the matter is is like, you know, I was one of those people who at the end of the day was like kind of spurned on like going to church, right? Like, so when I grew up, we grew up and my mom had like a thousand different beliefs. It felt like she believed in God, but like, man, like you name it, we did it. Because my mom is like, you know, she's like this intellectual being, and so like she wanted to see it. Like, so you name it, we saw it, like Buddhism, Pentecostal, like you you name the pride, like we were we were there, and so like I just Catholic, like I just felt like I was burnt out. And uh Heather took me to this church, and I was like, Oh, this ain't half bad. You know, music was music was decent, the thing was there, like there was a voice, even though sometimes like there's like just a voice in the in the worship, and you're like, Oh, I like that voice, right? And the you know, the preacher was good, and it was like, okay, this ain't half bad. And the one thing I think that she did during that time period that helped us kind of create that bridge was like she refocused me in regards to like finding a sense of community. The number one thing that you want to do when you're in trouble is you want to isolate yourself, right? And like you want to create like this barrier, nobody knows what I'm going through, like life's so hard. And don't get me wrong, there are different levels of heart. I'll say this, and this is kind of a tangent, so I apologize. I'm going a little bit everywhere, but I promise I'll bring it back. My oldest son, we're getting ready to take him uh on a trip, and we're stopped at a gas station and we're gonna go eat gas. And uh, we're at this gas station at a Walmart, and a guy who is unhoused walks up to me and he's like, Hey man, can I get uh can I have money and you know I'm gonna go get a something to drink? And I was like, No, like, hey, we're getting ready to hit the road, but I tell you what I can do is I can just give you some money and then just or I can go buy you some food because it's right across McDonald's right across the street. And so, like, the guy looks at my vehicle, so keep so keep this in mind. Sunhouse individual looks at my vehicle, looks at me, I hand him a 20, and he's like, Man, he's like, You should have given me more. Gave me my 20 back and then went and set back down, right? So when I tell you it's different levels of hard, that guy's hard is a hundred percent different than the hard that that we were that I'm living at the time, right? His heart is how do I find the next fix? Because that fixes what his goal is. And I hate to use it that way, but that's like yeah, his goal is not the same as mine. And so, like when I think about those times and I think about those things, it's like my wife helped me refocus and find number one, what my heart really was, which is a matter of like soul searching and digging to the bottom, like what were things that were preventing me from getting there? Two, is we recommitted ourselves to find a sense of community. And even though that we were having troubles in business at the time, like we gave back. We were abundant with our time. I may not have been able to give more money in situations to the church, I couldn't tide more, I couldn't do a ton else, but like I can give my time to someone else, and that filled my bucket, right? Like we volunteered a church. No, my wife led by example on that. Like she volunteered a church and she was in the thing, and you know, we read, and you know, we were in this growth track program, and we did all these things to get reconnected, which in turn led me to a small men's group, right? And again, these are different variations of hard that you that you see, right? And there's people from all walks of life, some super wealthy, some on their way up, some that are just starting uh in their relationship with God and with money. And it was phenomenal because not only did I get an opportunity to express myself, but it also led to ultimately us being able to get back on our feet. And it wasn't from the small group and it wasn't from those pieces, but it was the entire part of the journey that was like refocusing, finding a goal, in community, being uh abundant with my time and giving it to others, focusing directly in regards to like how do I hold ourselves accountable, having clear and concise clarity on the goal, and then moving forward, and then ultimately it led to our our something that was outside of our water streams, which is what we ended up selling our gym. And so, like you could have told me when that whole thing started that hey, you're sleeping in a friend's bedroom, the six of you guys, and then you basically don't have a ton of cash, you're gonna get a thousand dollars, that thousand dollars is gonna get to you signing people up, you're gonna regrow the gym, rebuild the culture, rebuild yourself, and then sell it. I'll never believe it.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah. I I appreciate you bringing up the the piece of the danger of men being in isolation, the importance of community, and how that played a role through all this for you. Because I I've talked about it quite a bit on the podcast, how no doubt as men we we we'll go over and isolate ourselves and just kind of hide from a lot of problems, right? And and community, our our church community specifically has just been so instrumental in my family, my marriage, our walk with the Lord, my children's walk with the Lord, you know, how I've pursued business and partnership. I mean, like all these things. But then in addition to that, Christian men who are way ahead of me in business and mentorships and things like that, that have just, I don't know where I'd be without all those things, you know, like that community of people. I mean, yeah, it's it's just so instrumental. I cannot say it enough. And I appreciate you bringing that up, just the role that that's played for you all, no doubt about it. I want to draw some things out from your just really operator mindset as well. And and because I know that, you know, you're working with lots of entrepreneurs and you know who are struggling in different ways. And I think I think I've seen you quoted where you say, you know, they don't actually have a marketing problem, they have an operator problem. And I wanted you to be able to elaborate on that a little bit and let's dive in there as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Most people believe that, like, because you run to the thing that that basically is the least painful, right? And so like most people believe that like the number one issue in your business is the fact that like I can't, like, it's all it's I have a lead issue, that is my problem. If I just had more leads, my life would be different. Where in all actuality, if you get flooded with leads, what it would show you is that like the whole other problem is what you're not even looking, right? And so when we think about things are like especially like when I when I talk to individuals like as they're coming into a program or as they're just like working through processes, is we see pretty quickly that there are no processes on the backside for individuals to be able to create success, right? And so like they focus most operators and most businesses, and this isn't just fitness businesses, this is business in general. And you probably have seen this too in all of your conversations, is that like the number one thing that people go to is a lead problem because it's the easiest thing to manipulate. And if you think about what the market tells you all the time, is like, let me get you these leads. And it's you know, it's you don't pay until you have somebody come through your door and you do all these different things that are out there that are an abundance of information, but they do it because it's the sexiest thing. It's the lady in the red dress. The hard work, no different than anything that we've talked about this entire this entire podcast, but like the hard work are the things that have to happen on the back end in order for you to be successful, right? And so it's like, do you have a proper attention system? Are you leading by example to your team? Do you understand like how to hold the line in your business when it comes to making decisions? Have you created clarity? Do you have regular meetings? Like all these things that have to happen in order to it. Um, I think most business owners and all and I'll actually live by the 55-45 rule. And so that's like 55% of the time, they're only doing half of the work, and then the other 45% of the time, they're doing 60% of the wrong work. And so, like, and and all that really means, I know that sounds like it sounds a little crazy, but the truth of the matter is is that like we get really hyper focused on doing a lot of the wrong thing instead of a little right, yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

I speak to your your three three five operator system because I'm sure that plays into all this as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah, and so like the three three five, it's like it's just a basic framework that we go by, right? So, like I'm an old football player and I'll use simple terminology, right? So, like if you think about things like we have playbooks and we have those things, so three three five is pretty simple. So it's like pillar number one is just making sure that like you own your numbers, right? So one of the biggest gaps I think in most businesses is the fact that like people make every decision that they have based off of like how they feel and actually like what the numbers are, right? Number two is that we just hold the line, and so like what I mean by that is as an owner, you can't lower your standard. Your standard is the standard which has the business run. And then if you're holding that standard, then that means it's infectious, right? Which leads to like number three, which is basically like protecting the energy. And so, what I mean by that is that like if you are the owner and if you are working 40, 50, 60 hours a week, you're not protecting your energy. You are basically you're trying to protect your business against the spoils of the world, right? In comparison to building a process, letting go directly to it, and then working your regular, working your way and coaching your way and leading individuals through the process, right? The second three is basically like the ceiling of the business is your leadership, right? And so, like, I think it's have you ever seen like the old adage, it's like the guys that are stuck in the that are stuck like in the canon, it's like the business can't grow unless they can get past the same thing that works in this, right? So, number one, and I think this is probably the theme of the podcast, is like lead with clarity. So you want to make sure that like at the end of the day, like your things are so dialed out through communication that at the end of the day, like they have no choice but to go, but to go forward, right? Number two is that we want to communicate and then we want to create action. And so I'm a big believer in the fact that like we create like these 90-day targets, and then everything that we communicate goes directly towards that target. Like I most people call them like wigs for like wildly important goals. We just like to think about them as like clear and concise action statements. Because like if I think about, again, another athletic analogy, but there's like four phases in a season, and so like legitimately it's a three-month process or 90-day process throughout the course of it. You have preseason, which is you're getting ready for the season, you have during season, which you're warning your way through it. You have postseason, which is basically getting your way after whatever happened in the season, preparing for the next season. This is usually where the most transformation happens on a football team. And then you have the summertime, right? So then you go back into it again, right? And so that way works through it. And so the last part to that three is like we want to build operators, like not order takers. And so, like right now, we're in an age where everybody but believes that like AI is like coming to take your jobs and doing this and doing that. AI can only replace the doers, right? Not the decision makers. And your job as a leader is to essentially is to create this level of individuals that are here to take your job or make your job a lot easier. When you walk into a team or when you're leading a team, that team should be better than when they ever met you. And what I mean by that is that, like, if you ever were replaced, it would be rightfully so because everybody who's left on that team is inherently better than you. That's a whole nother thing about abundance mindset that we talk about throughout the course of the process, but it's just the truth. And then the last thing are like the five core functions of business, right? And so the last piece is like your sales. So just making sure that you have a clear and concise acquisition system. Uh, you have fulfillment, which is ensuring that like not only can you get them, but you know how to keep them, and then you know how to deliver world-class service. You've got retention, which to me is like one of the sexiest things that most people just don't look at. So it's like, how do I make each individual worth more money to me? Right. And then how do I increase their experience by them being worth more money? That's the little caveat, is it isn't just okay to increase LTV. It's like, what does that LTV do for their client experience? Right. So, like, if I'm charging$5, but everybody stays with me, I can't afford to fulfill and I can't afford to send out birthday cards to individuals because that would take up 50% of what they're paying me. Like, I can't afford to do things that a gym that's charging$25 can do. And so those are low examples, but that's where it comes from. Ascension is that there has to be a clear and concise ascension model across the board. Most people just don't believe that. It's really weird to me. But if you start to break down any business, now that we are we've got some other companies under our portfolio. So, like we have, you know, this gym, we have the coaching department, which is our coaching consulting company that we have for gyms. And then now we have this uh Max Life, which is in our portfolio too, with a complete GLP one and peptide company. But like there's ascension processes that we've built in there too. So it isn't just about the first purchase, it's about like, hey, like, what is the next thing? So maybe you bought a GLP one, but now part of your journey to increase your results is to sell you into a peptide. The same thing works like in every business, is like there always has to be that. And the last piece is is like you just have to make a decision, and that revenue like doesn't fix it, like your discipline will. So, like another saying that we live by is like um discipline over dopamine. And so, like, instead of worrying about like that one hit, it's like, no, like, how can I be disciplined to be able to get this over time? Because like that's where success looks like, right? It's like, how do I create this longevity over time? And you know, we talked about experiences, we've talked about like, you know, being ready so you don't have to get ready. We've talked about all these things, but like that is the the nuts and bolts of that 335. It's just understanding like those pieces to the business and then um taking them and turn them into clear and concise action.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Love that. I love the structure and the details behind it. And and even in the beginning, you're talking about protecting your energy and thinking through some of that. And it leads me right to most men will say, and I'm guilty of this too, you know, well, I'm doing all this for my family, right? I'm I'm building, leading, growing businesses, starting businesses, and no doubt to have your success and to do all these businesses. I mean, you got to have that structure in place, and you're helping so many others do that same thing. How have you kept the businesses from consuming your family?

SPEAKER_00 36:04

We have like frameworks um and we have guidelines in our family, right? So, like one of the things that we instituted, I think has worked really well. And this is there's there's two things. And again, you're getting all the you're getting all the behind-the-scenes stuff here, right? So it's my if my wife's friends like are watching this, they're gonna be like, what? That makes a lot of sense now. So one thing is that we do set like we set our times in regards to like what it is, our goal, um, and even like small things. So we have a family meeting every week. In that family meeting, we talk about meals, we talk about ups, we talk about downs. We do that. We agree to eat three to four times per week, typically speaking, four times a week with each other. In that time period that we have that we eat with each other, like, and it's cool because Heather and I don't lead it. Our kids, what was the best part about your day, right? But they what's cool about that is is that they don't ask questions like, was your day a good day? Was it a bad day? Because one of the things that we teach them is like that that's not true. A day is a day. And then we talk about the things that we can do to improve, but it's dope because they ask questions because they listen with intent, and so they ask those questions um during those time periods. Another thing that we do is like we have hard stops. So like I've moved into like no working on Sundays that helps my family a ton. I've also changed my work schedule because I'm naturally up early. So like I have moved my time that I work to where there's dead silence in the house, and that helps too because when everyone's home, then I get to hang out and I get to be dad, right? Um, Heather and I meet, and you know, we talk business and we talk the business of the Dunims, which is a whole nother thing, right? I'm a lot to deal with now. And so like we talk the business of the denunes and we talk the business of things, right? So like um she tells me about the things that are going on with her, I tell her about things that are going on with me. Um, we talk structurally about the things that happen, like with the family and what needs to what needs to happen. Like, you know, there's you know, we talked last night, and like there's a trip that our girls have for like FPLA, and then there's uh, you know, they're going to Nashville for cheer and they just got back from cheer, but all these things affect the family in different ways. And so we navigate through those items. The biggest thing that I would say is that like you set the boundaries to protect your family, but then you just live by those things. And so like you schedule your family time first, and then you delegate the operations directly to your business, whatever you have or whoever you have that is there, but we're respectful of those things too, don't get me wrong. And then you we basically don't allow our business to be like a constant presence. When I worked in the corporate world, uh post-onning a gym, like I was 24-7 on SLAT, like 24-7 on SLAT. You know, the promise that I made to Heather and to my kids was like, I was not going to be a slave to work once we owned our own things. And that is something that we just that we've dealt with, right? And so, you know, my kids, there's we we watched the show blackish. At the end of the show, there's this thing, it's like, it's like daddy's working, and like that used to be their joke. Well, my kids used to be the joke because if I was sitting with them on the couch, I'd have my iPad or I'd have my cell phone and I'd be responding to Slack, so I'd be talking to customers. I'll never forget one of the moments that changed this for us was we were going through a hurricane. It was the first hurricane that we had in our new home. And we were going through this hurricane, and I had to have so just throwing this out there, think and and we can think about how wild this really is. But like we were going through a hurricane, and I had to do an exit interview for my old job during that hurricane because the guy lived in a different part of the country, and it's a hurricane in Florida. So keep in mind, this is a disgruntled person, 120 mile per hour wind, boom, boom, beating up the house, going through this entire process. Everybody's inside. I'm on the phone. Hey man, like, you know, can you tell me what's happening in your business? Can you tell me where it's I can laugh about it now? Uh you tell me what's happening, can you tell me what's going on? Oh, like here's where it's at. You know, you you we want to be more rational than they are. There can only be one person in the angry boat. All the things that you go through and that you learn uh in crisis diversion. And so we're going through the con. Like, I'm like, hey man, I'm not even gonna lie to you. I have to go. I can feel and hear the wind ripping on my door and pushing water in our front door. I've got to get off the phone, right? Guy says, I'm not gonna use the word. I could give an F about what's happening at your house. I want to cancel my membership with you guys. What you're doing is irrelevant, and you're just making up a story. So don't get me wrong, people are people, and I completely understand that. But there's a lesson in what was there though, right? My family is huddling around the leader of the family, and I am spending my time talking to this individual so he won't not pay$3,197. That is not a priority, right? And I will never forget that moment, never. And I'm lucky that my kids don't necessarily like that's not something that's ingrained in their thing. Their thing is like, you know, we were here, and you know, Heather and I made it fun, and you know, it was a camp in the living room, and so like it was fun to them, but like that is the moment that I will always remember, and that is why you know the the reservations and things that are there. But that's why I said if the business was to ever collapse, like because someone stepped away, right? Then you don't own the business, like it's just an extenuated job. And that was the example of that because that was a job.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

Yeah, it owned you. Yeah, wow. What an intense moment that man that just changes us, right? The Lord uses those times to man refocus us, and we need his help to continue in that way. Uh wow, I'd love to keep talking about that unfortunately, and we're out of time. But Dave, uh we maybe we can have you back in the future and us dive in some more on some of these topics. I would love that. I I want you to have time though to give one challenge to the men listening today. If if they could act, you know, uh, this week uh in some way and become a stronger husband, father, leader, what would that challenge be?

SPEAKER_00 41:49

My challenge would be is to understand that your legacy is not your revenue. And so like if you can spend one hour this week with your family, like investing in them, then that is how you create a legacy.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

That's well said. I love that. That's incredible. Dave, so grateful to have had you on the show. My goodness, yeah, you're a great guest, great example for us men who are experiencing hard seasons, right? And and as you I appreciate your transparency behind hard seasons, uh, even for you and Heather and how you all navigated those things together, which I think is is crucially important. Even you giving her credit, by the way, you said she's gonna listen to this. I hope she does. So uh yeah, it's great. I I love that, you know, you're honoring her in that way. And no doubt, as I was telling you, maybe it's before we started recording, I I don't know where we'd be without our spouses. I don't know where I'd be. I mean, uh my goodness, I don't even want to think about it, honestly. Uh, but yeah, so grateful for you, grateful for Heather as well, and just your transparency behind hard seasons. Everyone listening is going to face hard seasons if they haven't already that you're going to, right? And and I hope that they are preparing themselves, you know, with the Lord and just time with the Lord, time with your family. You know, you're growing in that leadership with them and and you know, just every day. So thank you for being that example for us and being willing to share. How can the listeners find you, get in touch with you, learn more about you?

SPEAKER_00 43:10

That's the easiest way to get a hold of me is Instagram, right? Uh, and so the you can find me on Instagram, it's the so t-h e dave d A V E Dunham uh on Instagram. That's gonna be the easiest way. Shoot me a message, uh, I respond back typically within 24 hours. Like, uh, you know, we're in a we're in a stage right now where we're growing and uh God's providing a lot for us right now. And uh I'd love to be able to just help someone or help someone find some abundance as well. Like we've got this uh got a goal internally in our house right now, uh, is to give away a hundred hours. And so, like, that's a hundred hours of communication that we have to help someone else out that doesn't live in our household, and so that's all the us combined. And so it's it's just a really nice thing. So our kids volunteer, we answer questions online. If people hit me up and Ask me questions about their business, I'm happy to answer and go through those things. Like it's just what we're uh it's what we're called to do.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Wow. I I love that challenge right there. Your your family, as a family, you all have committed to giving away a hundred hours. Is that right? Is that kids included? Is that just you? It's kids out there.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Oh no, it's everybody, yeah. Like Heather volunteers in Heather volunteers at church. All right, we have two our two girls volunteer to church. My oldest son, he will go and volunteer uh the baseball field, like uh and he'll help with little, he'll help the kids. My oldest kid, I mean, my youngest kid will volunteer at school. Uh, two girls will volunteer at school. Like I handle it in regards to like, you know, we're we're doing some stuff around here uh with entrepreneurs that we've had with a kind of like a group of individuals who look like me uh but haven't really had any structure in regards to like entrepreneurial status. And so being able to help people who have young innovative minds, like so we're doing these things to give away things. I know it seems crazy, but like and when I say it back, like it sounds a little more self-serving, but it's really not. Um it's really our want to give away because we understand like what the abundance can do, um, not just for us, but for other people. If I had the same opportunity to speak with someone who was in a position who looked like me and who could do the things, then I think I would have driven me a lot far than what I were than what I ended up doing, right? And so we want to be able to do the same thing. A lot of people that are that are out there don't have kids and so they don't understand the struggle and they don't understand how to navigate. And so we're happy to we're happy to help and push through.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Love that you've challenged me again here right at the end, this this hundred hours, but but I love how you're including the whole family in that. I love that you even mentioned how you and Heather are going and serving with the kids, right? They're seeing you serve as well and being that example. Wow, that's incredible. I hope the men listening are challenged by that. I mean, even thinking about that and the family meetings weekly. Incredible. Dave, thank you so much. Grateful to have had you on the show and to have met you. I know you've encouraged so many men by being so transparent by your story and what you've learned, where the Lord has brought you and Heather. Thank you.