Fun, Fellowship, and Charity - A Discussion on the Grotto

In this episode, co-hosts Chris Crume and Matt Salyer interview Illustrious Brother Chuck Gaiser, about all things Grotto.  This episode kicks off our multi-part series discussing different appendant bodies in Masonry.  We again bring you an extended cut interview that drops knowledge and light.

Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and X!

You can also reach us at newark.97.lodge@gmail.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is Beyond the Door, Exploring the Light of Freemasonry. Hello, and welcome again to Beyond the Door, Exploring the Light of Freemasonry. I am Chris Kroom, and once again joined by my co-host, Matt Salier. How are y'all doing? Boy, we are in May at this point. It feels like just yesterday we had started this podcast. We're going to drop the 10th episode here coming up. And what a cool journey, I think it's been thus far.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Yeah, a little bit this has been an interesting project. It really has. And I'm hoping it grows real legs, like true, true long legs, and we can we can kind of lean into some additional topics here and there, but definitely taken in a couple of different directions that weren't originally anticipated, at least this early. But it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Yeah. And I think, did I hear maybe spin-off content there?

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Oh, I don't know about that, but uh you have my attention. We'll say that.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I mean, I I think the like the title of the Master Mason episode, the world is our oyster on this, right? There's a lot of different directions we can go. And I think the biggest thing is we're just super grateful for the outpouring of support that we've had thus far. And, you know, it wouldn't be possible without all the amazing listeners out there downloading this podcast, listening to it, telling their friends, their family, their brothers about this podcast and you know, really what it means.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Yeah, I would echo every last bit of that. It's the support, the the positive things that I've heard in person, it's really I'm I'm glad it's touching something out there in a in a positive way.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So well, I think today, too, you know, as we've kind of gotten out of the three degrees, we start to explore, you know, what the oyster really is, you know, from that Master Mason degree. And our interview today with illustrious brother Chuck Geiser coming here and talking about the grotto is one of those appendant bodies that we kind of are starting with. But for those that don't know what appendant bodies are and don't know what the grotto is, tell me a little bit about that real fast.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Well, and I can only speak to my own experience, right? But the grotto for the longest time was under the radar. I I kind of heard about it in passing from some of our more seasoned members, but I never knew hardly anything about it. And then Chuck decided he, or rather, we invited him, I should say, into the launch to do something in the way of a lodge education program on it. And and it kind of opened my eyes. And I'm really glad that we were able to have him down here and and talk a little bit more about it. But to answer the question, so the grotto is a standalone appendant body of Freemasonry. It is not on the York right path, it is not on the Scottish Rite path, and it's a little bit more of a relaxed atmosphere. The the grotto is it was kind of born of the idea that we work really hard within Blue Lodge, and so we should be able to play equally hard, right? So kind of getting a little bit more of the humor and the fun and the I don't want to say party because I don't want to blow it out of proportion, but you yeah, well, and and kind of the event planning and the guy, like, you know, dancing, music, etc.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah. Well, and and uh what I love about this too, and again, backing up just a bit, you know, appendant bodies, you know, these are those things that you can do after you've gotten your master mason degree. You can continue to explore Freemasonry in new and unique ways. And what I love about Grotto, and you're gonna hear this in our interview with with Chuck, is it's a very unique way to continue your path of Freemasonry. Really lean heavily into the fellowship, the brotherhood, the families, and getting them involved in what we do.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

100%. And and I really took away from that that I really feel like the blue lodges in the grotto should be supporting one another more. Absolutely. And if that's my own personal call to action for anybody out there, I mean, I'm kind of taking it to heart, and I hope others do too, because I I see a lot of possibilities with combining forces for events and you know, kind of getting the spouses involved and having the kids run around playing together. It just it kind of builds that culture and and I'd like to see more of it.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, absolutely. So we're really thrilled to have Illustrious Brother Geyser in the Newark 97 podcast studio, and we really think you're gonna love this episode.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

All right. Well, in typical fashion, we want to share some of the upcoming happenings here in the 19th District and around the state. So Tuesday, June the 2nd at 7:30 p.m., Newark No. 97 will have their stated meeting. Saturday, June the 6th at 9 a.m., there will be a district leadership program phase two at Center Lodge number 86. Saturday, June 13th at 9 a.m. That district leadership program phase two will also take place at New Home No. 338. Also on Saturday, June 13th, and again on June 27th from 9 a.m. to noon, the Licking County Historical Society Passport Tours will take place at the Newark Masonic Temple. These are coming to an end.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, I will say if you have not gotten out here to see those paintings, get out here because we've got, I think, three dates left, two in June and one in July. So first time that these paintings had been visible to the public since the 1850s. Not that we like to keep our secrets, but you know, it just shows that you know, if you're not a member, you don't necessarily get to enjoy some of that rich history that's here as well. Well, it's beautiful artwork. So it is worth the trip down here. It truly is. And if you're if you're from Newark, it is culturally relevant to Newark as well for our history.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

And then Friday, June 19th, 6 p.m., the 19th and 20th district visitation will take place at the Moose Lodge in Mount Vernon.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Should be a good time, too. That's a really cool place. It's where we had the Grand Masters reception for 19th District. So good food, good time. And good fellowship.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Absolutely. All right. And rounding out June on Saturday, June 27th at 9 a.m., the district leadership program phase number two will be here at Newark number 97.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

You know, as we get into this interview here in just a minute with Illustrator's brother Geyser, you know, I think this is kind of setting up where we're going to head for the next few months with some of the, you know, interviews that we're going to do and talking about the appendant bodies. But next month, really special episode coming out of Beyond the Door that I think is really going to be fun for a lot of folks. We're going to do a very special Father's Day episode. Both myself and Matt, our dads are Masons as well, with two completely different journeys. And really just the stories and everything that we're going to talk about, I think, is going to be great.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this one. And it well, and a little bit of a little bit of trepidation. You never know what ridiculous story your dad might tell about your youth.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

You never know what dad might say. You're right. But I think it's again, it it's that fathers and sons thing that you know we see very commonly in the world. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

I I'm I am overwhelmingly in support of this. Like it it's going to be it's going to be a good conversation. And it's I say this in a good way. It's kind of interesting what comes out when when you get people to sit down and you have that conversation. And it's we're we're really pointed about it. There's not no interruptions. You got the headphones on. I'm kind of curious what what'll shake loose.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, I am too. And and hopefully this is a really good send-off into the summer, you know, knowing that a lot of lodges do go dark in the summer. So just because lodges go dark in the summer doesn't mean that beyond the door is going to be going dark during the summer. We'll be here all summer for you as well. That is the plan. June, July, August. If your lodge is dark, don't worry. We're going to have our dulcet tones coming over the airwaves to you. The absolute best that we can do in terms of content. But if there's anything that you're wanting to hear from us too, I think this is an important place to say this. Please reach out. You know, we we give our email address and our social media handles at the end of every episode. Reach out. If there is a topic that is important to you or something you'd like us to expound upon, we are always more than willing to take those topics and discuss them.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Do we want better and add interviewee as well. Yeah. If there is a if there is a special Mason with an interesting story that you think deserves to have have a moment behind the microphone and share that and something that we can take to the brethren, more than interested.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Because I think I think, you know, at the heart of it, that's what this is all about. It's about the stories of Freemasonry and what it's meant to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Oh, yeah. I I couldn't agree more. I think the stories and the education, I that's what interested me about the idea to begin with, is learning a bit and bringing people along with the ride.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah. And boy, what a ride it's been. So without further ado, we're gonna kick it over to our interview with illustrious brother Chuck Geyser. Well, it is my distinct pleasure to welcome brother Chuck Geyser into the Newark 97 podcast studio. We are just super excited to have you here with us today uh to talk all things grotto.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Okay. I'm glad to be here and see you guys and and all that.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Yeah, welcome, Chuck. Thank you. Yeah, happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, I mean, you know, it it's always good to, you know, talk inside of a lodge, but outside of what we normally do, and you know, and really thinking about that, I'm gonna jump right in here. What you know, who are you outside the lodge? What do you do, you know, outside of the lodge?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Well, I'm retired. I don't know how many you know, I'm 85 years old.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

No, I would not have guessed that. I was gonna say I wasn't gonna guess that. I would never have guessed that.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

And I was raised in 1965. So I've been a Mason for 61 years. Wow. But so consequently, I'm retired and the wife and I, we like to travel. We do gardening. In fact, we've spent about the last three days in our backyard. We got a fenced-in backyard, and she loves raising flowers and roses and all that kind of stuff, and and uh we've pretty much got it ready for the summer now. But since when I first retired, I've spent a lot of time on the golf course because my wife still worked. So me and my buddies would go out and golf about every workday. And after a while you get older and things don't work as well when for that swinging that golf club and all that.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Did you get better at the game though? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, yeah, pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Good.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

And then I I got interested in going back to lodge more so. But I when I went in in 1965, it was only a matter of months that I got put on second shift. I worked at Rockwell, and that kind of curtailed me doing anything with Masonic. So in my career from then on, I worked on the an hourly person and then after five years I was asked to go in supervision and I spent 15 years in supervision, but while I was doing that, I started going to school over to OSUN and I never did get a degree. I got probably that close, but I never did get a degree, but I did become an in what you an engineer there. And so that I retired in ninth December of 1999 and had a as an engineer a very good career at Rockwell. And and from there that's when I started the golf. And then but in between all that time, I I really wasn't active with a lodge. But I did at Rockwell, there were some guys that belonged to Scottish Wright in Cambridge, and they uh talked me into joining Scottish Wright, which I did. And consequently, I really liked Scottish Right, and I went through one of the bodies down there, and that's how I got my 33rd in, by uh by uh going through one of the bodies in the Scottish Rite. Well, after that I got my 33rd, my wife said, you know, you should go back to the Blue Lodge because there's where your start began in Masonry. So I started going back to Heath, that's my home lodge, which used to be down here as Crusader. This is where I was raised in this building right here. So I did, and of course, when I walked in, you know, and they're questioned me about things, and I said, Yeah, I'm a 33rd and all that. Evidently they thought he knows everything about masonry, and I hadn't even been back to a blue lodge, so I really didn't, you know. And uh they put me right in as uh junior deacon. Boom. Right now. Nothing like trial by fire right there. So from there I and of course went through the chairs in 2008. Uh I was the master of uh Heath out there. And then I started uh going to uh getting involved in York right. And then you when they have elections and everything, that we was all sitting up there, and they didn't have a recorder for chapter, council, or commandery. So I'm sitting there and thinking, I never did do anything like that, but I'll I'll put my name in the hat, and I did, and of course, you know that's that is the one thing about Masonic Body.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

If you want a job, you are guaranteed a job.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

You've got it right now. And uh from that, it I really just became so involved with uh some of the uh bodies of uh by going through you know, chapter council and commander, you then are eligible to to become a why uh night york cross of honor. And of course that leads to other things, you know. So you just get all kinds of honors there after a while and all that.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

So that's that that's a fairly unusual journey, if you don't mind my saying. So you had a long hiatus essentially from Blue Lodge. From like 1965 until in the 90s. So you're so you had almost 30 years of service then when you had your first job in Blue Lodge.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yep, yep. That is it. Yeah, that's the reason I said I didn't really know that much about the Blue Lodge as far as you know what went on and all this and that. Yeah. And when I did get raised here, I did come back down and and was helping them with uh, you know, they would at that time and they always took in new candidates very frequently.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

And I would help them out. But like I say, then when I got put on second shift, that that came to a halt.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

We have some brothers that are that way too that I know very much want to be here, but the usual vocation and obviously raising a family, they've that's a hard choice to make. They and they're a second shift. So you you you brought up how the frequency. How frequently were people being introduced down there?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Oh my golly, we would they'd take in maybe eight or ten a month. Oh my lord. Wow. You were busy all the time, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I mean so you were doing degree work eight to ten times a month.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Yeah.

unknown 16:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

And you know, and then of course, being as new as I was, I th really didn't know what the heck I was doing. They'd tell me what to do, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Stand there, say this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

And it makes you wonder, you know, what if what if I hadn't been put on second shift? What what would have led to in Masonics, you know?

SPEAKER_03 16:54

But still, you've got an interesting Masonic career, nevertheless. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, I mean, you know, it it's that first 30 years, but then that second 30 years, it's like, wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Really jumped in it. And jumped in, yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yeah. That's interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Uh you mentioned your wife. She's the one holding down the fort then at home when you're out here. Sure is. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

And her and I went through the Eastern Star one time. Okay. And uh she was the worthy matron, and I was a worthy patron right here when it was here in in this building. And of course, she knows a lot about Masonics. Her dad was a Mason, her brother. My dad was a Mason. My ex-father-in-law was a Mason. In fact, my dad was a shriner, and that was in West Virginia. So, and they are really the ones that my ex-father-in-law and my dad got me interested in Masonry. And they came to Newark one time and said, Here, here's your uh fees. You're going into the Sonic Lodge. They didn't say you want to go or anything like that. That that's how I got put in, just like that, you know. But and then when I once you did it, once I did it, it was found out it was very interesting and I liked it.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

So thinking about like the night you know, being here in 1965, I mean, there had to be people all over the place too. I mean, just the the lodge room had to be filled.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

It was, yes. Same thing with I mentioned about my wife and I going through Eastern Star. I can remember when we did our inspection, the blue room upstairs was completely full. I think it was 150 some people. Wow, wow. At our inspection. That's and the same thing was with blue lodges. My golly, there'd be people up in the balconies, you know, the room would just be full.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Well, they they'd have to probably bring in extra chairs. Chairs, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Sure would.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

I mean, I can only imagine that room packed like that. I I I have never seen it that way. I think about 60 to 70 is the most we've ever seen in there.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

I've seen it close one time. Really? Well, it was it was pre-COVID. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Well, if you remember, I was the inspection candidate for Master Mason. Everybody wanted to see you. Pre- No, I don't know about all that. It was it was 2012, you know, pre-COVID quite a bit, and and there were a lot. There were a lot of faces in that room. I can't say the bit the balcony was full, but I the downstairs at least was very full.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah. I mean hopefully we can get back to that spot here soon.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah. Well, and when you'd come down, you know, the entertainment room in there, the pool room. Yeah, you know, there'd be guys in there playing pool or cards in the and there where the card tables are. Yeah. There'd be uh masons sitting there playing cards and just having a good time and all that.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

You'd you'd like to see that come back, but what about families, wives and kids ever down here?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

I never saw that too much. Okay. Now in Grotto, maybe we'll get into that a little bit more, but you can't do that. I do have that question. Okay. Yeah, I know that's on there. I won't see how I won't say any more about that right now.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

You know, also thinking about just you know life outside of you know lodge, what are your hobbies? What do you like to do?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Well, as I mentioned, golf, but uh I like I love woodworking. I got a little woodworking shop.

SPEAKER_05 20:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And uh I love to do that, but I haven't Masonry here in the last eight to ten years has really kept me busy, especially when you're secretary of you know the three bodies in New York, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

The secretary of uh Grotto.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

I didn't know you had that role too. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

You must write really well then.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

I don't know. You can read it at least. Yeah, I can Yep.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Anything particular that you like to do in woodworking or just anything. Just Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah. Furniture or anything. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Yeah, there's no wrong answer. I was genuinely curious because some people, some people have a thing that they like to do and they do it houses or something. Right. You know, and then others, it's like they they like the challenge of it, so they want that new thing. You know what I mean? So they're kind of looking for projects all the time.

SPEAKER_05 21:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

So you know, if I'm sitting here looking at your phone today, too, who's your favorite artist or band, or what music are you listening to right now?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Elvis Presley. Ooh, I like it. That was a fast answer. That was a really fast dancer.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Fast answer.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

My son got me interested that when he was a little boy, and Elvis was real popular. He used he had little recording uh records, you know, yeah. And he'd play that just constantly. And I think, good golly, that guy drives me crazy. But then when I got to listening to him, I thought, I think he's got a really unique voice. It seemed like a lot of the artists, they the songs they sing always had that same tone and beat to them, you know, but every song seemed a little bit different to me. Me for for it from him, you know. He had a wide range. He had a super wide.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

I mean, his gospel album is one of my favorites. I love his gospel.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Well, I think if he if he had sounded the same on every album, if he'd sounded the same on every song, I don't think he would have kind of reached that cultural milestone that he I mean people people had busts of him in their home. Oh yeah. The memorabilia for that man is, I mean, through the roof.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

If you've ever, you know, there's a lot of people like to impersonate him. Have you ever been to one of them?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

I have not. My wife has.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

The women will just, I mean, they act like they did back then. Yeah. Right. Act a little crazy and all that.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

My my wife has gone to one down in Branson with uh my father-in-law. So he loves Elvis, so they've gone to that competition before. It was a competition.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Uh-huh. Yeah. I went to two of his concerts. Wait, one was actual real Elvis con Elvis. Oh my god. That's cool. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

The first one we went to, and I told you my little boy was a favorite of his. From the time he came on stage until he left, it was. And I do you like that? Hey, what do you think? Just he just is just in awe. He just was so focused on my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

That's awesome. How old was your little boy at the time?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Probably about five.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Oh wow. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't imagine seeing Elvis in person. You know, we talk about him all the time. He's still such a c you know cultural icon. Yep. I couldn't imagine that. And to think that he actually his career wasn't that long when you really look at it. I mean, and his you know, his yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

But he was in everything. He was in everything. I mean, he did music, he did movies.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah. And I mean never did a world tour. I did not know that. Never did a world tour. You're right. I uh I I learned that from the Baslerman movie, but yeah, never did a tour.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

I don't know how I know I'm just thinking of this off the cuff, but I don't actually know how he was who would be received out of North America. I mean, I knew that. Oh, he would. He was popular.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

He was internationally popular. Okay. He was super popular internationally, but never got never did a tour.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Interesting. Well, when he was in the military, you know, he was stationed in Germany. I don't know I don't think he did any entertainment. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Um yeah, I like all really all kinds of music, but he's one of my favorites. I like country music, symphony. Okay. I like about all kinds of music. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Uh you know, if you're thinking books or movies, which one's better? Probably dances with wolves or that type of W do you like the book or do you like the movie for dances with wolves? I've done both. Which one did you like better?

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Uh I always kind of like a movie. I don't know. You really get to s see and all that w with a book, but you you're gonna use more of your what, your imagination when and try to, but I I kinda like a movie, I think, and be able to sit there and just watch what goes on and and all that.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah. Well, and I know you and I have talked about this before because you're a huge Lord of the Rings fan. I am. Which did you prefer?

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Oh, the books, unquestionably. Like without well, don't get me wrong, Peter Jackson did an admirable job in a lot of ways on that series, particularly with casting. Yeah. But the books have so much more of the lore. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Well, you can only fit so much into a three-hour movie.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Or three three-hour movies. Well, yeah, one per book, yeah. Right. But no, uh, Dance of the Wolves is spectacular, by the way. It's a great movie. Kevin Costner at his best. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Sure was.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Definitely, definitely at his best. You know, aside from your ritual, what what is the most informative Masonic book you've ever read?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Probably you've heard of the Mackey books. Okay. I've I've read a lot of those. Okay. And I was trying to think. I've got one book in my little library of Masonics that I can't think of the name of it, but it it covers all the bodies in uh Masonics, you know, and describes them and everything. And it it kind of helps you to maybe to understand what each body's meanings are. Okay. So I kind of like that one, but I can't think of the name of it right now.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

That's fair. Yeah, no, I mean I it's amazing too when you think about how each body kind of plays into each other as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

So you you mentioned your father-in-law kind of dragging you down here to get started. Had you heard of Masonry before that?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Well, s certainly.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Oh, you said your father was also a Mason.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, and I was I was born in West Virginia, but he moved the family to Pennsylvania when I was probably three or four years old. And that's when he became a Mason, was in Pennsylvania. And as you know, up there they don't have rituals.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

I actually did not know that. I didn't know that. It's all mounted.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Mouth to ear. Wow. All mouth to ear.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

And I can remember s even as that real young age, is my dad talking to other Masons and talking about that. But at the time it was like, you know, I don't know what they're talking about, but now I think about it, I can remember them talking that, you know, the the mouth to ear teaching one another, you know, the what parts they had to plu do and all that.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Okay. But you know what?

SPEAKER_01 27:41

I find that I find that fascinating because again, it's probably an easier way to learn. I mean, that's how we teach people the ritualistic code now.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I I I think people learn different, so I don't know that I would say easier, but I will say this. I think that actually fosters I think the the fact that you're you can't do self-study means that you are fostering a much more brotherly environment. Yeah probably. Hundred percent. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah, I didn't know that Pennsylvania was are they still to this day?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Mouth to ear.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

So you got you have early childhood memories then of your dad doing that.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Like I say, at the time I didn't even know what I was hearing. Right, of course. You know, but now that I think back, I can remember them talking about that.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

That's interesting. Okay. So you m probably have memories too of him putting on a suit and disappearing in the evenings to go off to meeting. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And he was a shriner in uh Parkersburg, West Virginia, and he was, you know, the I don't know if you've ever seen the Shriners with the motorcycles. Oh yeah. They go to Washington, D.C. He did all that. They would practice on a Sunday, they'd go out after church, you know, and practice. But the thing of it was after church, they might go to the VFW or something before they would practice. Some kinds of practices didn't go too well. If you I went home one time and he had a road rash all down the bus.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

So I've always said if I joined Shrine, that's the reason I want to join Shrines. I want to ride one of those little minibikes. Yeah. No argument.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

With them little carts.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah, one of those little carts or a minibike. I was like, that just looks cool, wearing a little Fez and driving a cart.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Well, this just fascinates me because of how young you were. Like, so I I'm I'm hoping these are fond memories because I have little guys myself, right? And I know that I disappear on Tuesday evenings, sometimes, you know, Mondays or Wednesdays too. And I'm hoping I'm hoping that that kind of translates really well when they grow up and they're like, yeah, dad did this thing, but it was important to him, it made him better, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

So hopefully that's the impression that you had. I don't know, that seems like a leading question, so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

But yeah, that's because of my dad being a Mason, I think I can remember also him telling me that, you know, if if you become a Mason, it's gonna make you a better man. I can I do remember that very well. Back in my youth.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, very cool. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

That's that's awesome. I mean, that kind of reminds me of my grandpa a little bit, although he was kind of of the school of you just don't talk about it too. But as he got older, he talked a little bit more about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

But Jen, in my teenage years though, I really I never thought too much about it. Because we I was raised he bought a dairy farm and I was raised on a dairy farm, and never thought too much about it until my senior year in high school. He said, Are you gonna stay here and make a go of this as a dairy farm? And I said, I don't think so. I don't want to become a farmer. And then that's when I got married and came to Newark, and shortly after that I was 21 years old, and that's when my dad and my father-in-law came over and said, You're gonna be a Mason now.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

So your wife's from the area then?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

The white my white current wife is. I'm divorced.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Ah, got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

She's from Cambridge.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Not too far away. No, not far at all. No. And the the Scottish Wright cathedral there is gorgeous too. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Have you ever been out there? I don't think I've been to the Cambridge one.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

You're missing out. Actually, he needs to uh be reinstated, if I remember correctly. Yeah. NPD on his dues right now. Pretty sure that's accurate.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Not my proudest moment. Need to need to resolve that. Yeah, thinking back on your Masonic journey too, you know, you had your petition, you had your investigation, now you're, you know, ready for that entered apprentice degree. You're here, you've got your, you know, you got your blue clothes on, probably the same ones that are still up there. You know, I don't think we've changed them, just washed them maybe once or twice, but you're you're right in the preparation room. What are the first you know, what are the thoughts going through your mind before you knock on that door?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Golly, I gotta think back now. Sixty years ago.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Were the were there in the were your father-in-law and dad in the crowd?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

They did not when I took my innered apprentice in fellowcraft, they did not come over. But of course, when I was raised as a Freemason, they came over and saw that.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

So you didn't you didn't even have any friendly faces then?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

No.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Okay. That reminds me of mine, too.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Now I went in with a fellow that I work with at Rockwell.

SPEAKER_05 32:28

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Okay. And we him and I studied together. We we c we had a mentor and we'd go to him and he'd teach us, you know, the work.

SPEAKER_05 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

And then this fellow and me would get together on our own and we would know the lecture and everything, the questions. I mean, we could I'd ask him the question and and he'd answer, and then we'd reverse it. And we just knew that thing inside and out. But as far as the thoughts, you know, I I I guess when you're blindfolded like that, you your mind is saying, you know, what in the world is this? You know, that they got you blindfolded and leading you around and you're stumbling like, you know, and and you're trying to imagine what's what's out there that they don't want me to see right now, you know, and all that. And then after after you're inner apprentice and and they take that blindfold off, you know, then you see what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Then when you take your fellow craft, you got a little bit more of an idea what the confidence goes up as as the degrees go on. That that inner apprentice. I haven't talked to anybody who didn't have the jitters.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

And and the the people that the friends that I knew, the masons, you know, of course they tease you. You know, all that teasing goes on before you before you ever become an inner apprentice. So, you know, you you that's that I guess that's the things that you're thinking about. Is is all these things I I know they're joking me, but what is it really some of these things going to come true?

SPEAKER_03 33:55

I I've heard some pretty interesting throwaway comments made to people just beforehand, just to get them guessing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Uh I'll never forget when I went up to my grandparents' house after you know, after actually going through my three degrees, my grandpa asked me, he said, Did they give you a rowdy goat? It's always a goat. Yeah, always always a goat. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

That's one of the main ones.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

And backing up just a minute, what I find you know, I I I related really well, really well when you said you know you had a guy that you went in with and you guys could you know sit there and go back and forth with the question. You and Steve. It reminded me of me and Steve. We came in like literally what three, four weeks apart, something like that. Yeah. And because I got to watch every one of his degrees because I would go through it before he did. But we would do the exact same thing. We memorized the ritual inside and out, and we could actually ask and answer the questions together. So I and I love that about the fraternity, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Well, I think that's a good way to go in too. It is right. And don't get me wrong, I think that every for every degree is for the individual, of course, right? But coming in and not being that lone man when you're trying to learn that stuff. Yeah, kind of feeling like you're under pressure and the person Yeah, it learning it with somebody is always better.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah. And and somebody that's not your mentor, too. Correct. Yeah. Well, and it gives you that, again, that familiar face, right? I mean, I I think about me standing on the other side of that door. I'm like, what the hell am I doing right now? I don't know any of these guys. You know, I they're sitting there talking about a goat, and I'm sitting here blindfolded in this room. What is going on? And, you know, not being from the area originally, that, you know, it's a little bit nerve-wracking, and especially for an introvert.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

So I I think anybody that probably goes first in as an interapprentice, you're gonna sweat a little bit. I can remember, I can remember I was very nervous, you know. Yeah. And and and probably had a little sweat on my brow and all that because you you don't know what to expect. Yeah, because nobody tells you really anything at that point, you know. Yeah. Other than the jokes of what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah. I'm thankful that it was February, so it was a little cold up there. I didn't sweat too much. Right. So I I knew exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

I was yeah. Late fall, early winter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yep. It wasn't like uh it wasn't like Greg's Master Mason when we did that one and everybody was sweating because it was July. So Yeah, that's what about the public speaking, Chuck?

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Were you fairly new to public speaking? Like returning your work.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Was that nerve-wracking or well what we went through in in the degrees, I really can't say it was nerve-wracking. Now, I'm not I don't I'm not a very good public speaker, I would say, but I guess I was at ease by going in with him because we knew the work so well that it just wasn't so bad. In fact, we had to prompt the prompter. He got stuck a couple times down there. That's a good sign. That's a great sign.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

I think Steve and I did the exact same thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

And that's something. Oh my gosh. It it but it's a good thing, in in seriousness, it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_05 37:19

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Yeah. It it tells it it being on the other side of that exam, like now for me, it tells me that that guy cares. They're committed to the craft.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

They put in the work, committed to the craft, just like just like the grandmaster says, it's committed to the craft. And I think that that really shows that commitment. You know, knowing that you're, you know, your your dad and your father-in-law were here when you had that master mason degree, you know, you go through it and you know, we both we all know what uh, you know, that master mason degree, it's a little bit different. What were your immediate thoughts afterwards? You know, typically, like at least in Newark, you know, we go through the degree and the master asks the candidate, you know, we've been talking for about two hours. Now it's your turn to talk. You know, what were your thoughts like right afterwards?

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Well, I guess my thoughts would be regarded Masons very highly. And I was thinking, you know, I'm part of that community of Masons. And there's this town of Newark, Ohio, and I was told the population, you know, you'd be as a young man it was 50,000 people. And I'm a Mason, and and I do other people now look at up at me as a more of an upstanding citizen and everything because of what Masonry stands for and all that. And I don't know if I'm getting my thought across enough that it it I just felt that the people that I knew were going to th think more of me because I was a Mason and and and they knew what Masonry meant, you know, as far as m making you a good man and and being truthful and all that kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Higher thoughts, higher deeds, higher standards. I very much understand. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Did you get to see uh the ancient? I've I've I've heard that we've got uh if you have enough characters, you can do it with torches.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

No, I've never seen that.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

I've wanted to see that so much. I know Richard's probably one of those guys that has seen it, but I've wanted to see that for a while. Same.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

That's of course, you know Art Sterling. If you ever talk to him, there were so many things in years past that you know they used to do that you wish that we could get back to some of that and things.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

100%. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we I mean, actually we had Art St Art as a guest on here in our Arthur was our first two, yeah, he was in our first two episodes. And uh, you know, if you haven't checked those out, I'd recommend going and hearing those. But yeah, I mean, knowing that your first job was the junior deacon role, right? You got thrown right in. That seems to be everybody's first thing. It's like, hey, you know, you were you a junior deacon? No, I was a junior steward. Oh, that's right. You were a junior steward, and then you went right to junior deacon right after that?

SPEAKER_03 40:21

No. Try again. Go give me two more promotions. Junior steward to junior warden in one election.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

So you you started at junior deacon. Yeah. What did that progression then look like after junior deacon for you? Was it linear?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah, yeah. Pretty linear. Went through all the rest of the chairs from there on. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

And then spent one year in the East or Yeah, just one year.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Okay. And that 2008 is wasn't that uh Ohio's something in Was that the bicentennial? Centennial, wasn't it? I'm thinking that's that was the centennial year 2008.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

That's probably correct, yes. Yeah. I'll see if I can find it. I think it was their bicentennial, yeah, if I remember correctly. I wasn't living in the state yet, but I think I vaguely remember seeing some of those license plates around still.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I'm disappointed in myself. I should know this history.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah, as an Ohioan, yeah, you should. But uh I shouldn't be my year, but so you were in the east during that bicentennial. Yes. What was that? I mean, what was that like knowing that there was like something big going on in the state?

SPEAKER_00 41:36

I don't know. I don't remember really seemed like it was that big of a deal or anything like that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

No no uh game time jitters, the first time in the east right before the gavel, right before the yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Oh yeah, yeah, you sure do. But uh you know, John Patrick? Yeah. Of course, he was kind of my minor as I was going through all that. And when I was the master, and our inspection was in the Master Mason degree, him and I'd go out almost every day out the lodge and practice, you know.

SPEAKER_05 42:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

And there were times he'd said, I don't know if you're gonna get this or not, Chuck.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

And just hear the confidence oozing out of his voice.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Well, when we did, when we actually had our inspection, I don't know what it was. It was just like, oh shoot, you know, just went right through it and and we got done. He said, Well, that was amazing. You know, you you just went through that like it was nothing. I said, Well, as much as we practiced, you know, it should have gone that way.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Good.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

He would I would uh he had me to do the questions and the answers, you know, do it the whole thing. And and I'd be going along and he'd be walking out near the around the altar or whatever, you know, and pretty soon he'd go, I'd say, what? I that was right. I know. I just shaking my head, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

He'd just trying to trip you up.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Just trap him and trip me up, you know. That's and I it must have worked because we had a very excellent uh inspection.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

So you know, he still does that to me all the time, too.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

I think I'd be worried if if somebody wasn't ribbing me in some way.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

I know, I would be too. So you went to the east in 2008. Did you ever circle back around to the east again or did you just serve that one time? Just that one time. Well, and I and I find again, I I I I find that interesting too, because again, nowadays we're talking about you know, guys having to take the East multiple times in a row or lots of past masters having to fit in there. How many people, you know, when you were master of the lodge, how many people were in your lodge and regularly attending meetings?

SPEAKER_00 43:46

We would of course we always had our corps of officers that was always there. And we would probably have 10 to 15 on the sidelines at every meeting. So we were and then Freddie Pohl went in. I'm trying to think. Uh yeah, when I was the master, he was just starting in masonry, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Wow. No way. I would not have guessed, nor I.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Okay. He hasn't been in that long, really.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Wow. That feels meteoric in terms of everything he's accomplished then. Okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, after he got after he served as master of the lodge, boy, he really took it. Sure did.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Wow. So you sat in all the chairs then? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Every one of them.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

What's your favorite job in the Blue Lodge?

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Probably senior deacon.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Uh yeah. Everybody loves it. And that's one you haven't done.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

You're just sitting there and you're busy. You know, it seems like all the time there's something to do.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

You've always got your fingers in everything.

SPEAKER_05 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Having that front row seat too with the candidates is cool. I I like it that you're you're their first contact. You're their first introduction and you know, real introduction into masonry. I mean, you you can make or break their experience. I mean, it's a big job. It's a weighty job when you really think about it. It well, it sure is. It but it's fun. Because again, you get to be you're their eyes and ears, right? Yep. Still gotta go back and punch that ticket one day. You gotta punch that ticket and junior deacon. Junior Deacon. Sounds like next year, right?

SPEAKER_03 45:32

I uh yeah, as always, I I will go where needed.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Oh, I know. I know. You know when you think about your Masonic journey outside of Blue Lodge and Grotto, yeah, we talked a little bit about Scottish Right. Tell us a little bit more about that, too.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

I think as I said before, there was a couple guys at my where I worked got me interested in Scottish Rite, you know, and from there that's how I went through the chairs. And for some reason Scottish Right has, of course, uh 31 degrees. Okay. So you're sitting there, you're not Scottish Wright, is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 46:23

I I have been. I just need to add I need to address it. Okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

You remember you had to sit there and observe the all the the degrees at that time, you know. And if you keep going back and you'll pretty soon you're gonna see them all and everything, but it always fascinated me to to uh watch him portray all these different degrees and the meaning behind the degrees, you know, and all that. That uh that always just uh impressed me quite a bit that uh the reason I like Scottish right. But now I got into York right after that. Yeah. And and York right's a little bit different, I believe, in the respect that w how you observe and go through the degrees and all that, you know. And uh so now it's like I that's another thing talking about my dad. I can remember my dad talking to his friends about now which way'd you go, Scottish Right or York right, you know. And uh I just wish that he would have lived long enough to see me to be able to go to both and get to the top of both, you know.

SPEAKER_03 47:24

Yeah, they're very different. Uh and I don't have as much under my belt in Scottish Right as I do York right now. Right. But it just that little bit, I can tell they're very, very different.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Yep. Well, they are, but some of the degrees are very similar to what you'll s uh in in chapter and different things. You'll see a lot of things that together, you know, have the same meaning behind them and all that. A little bit of crossing. The work is very similar in in places.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

It it Yorkright feels a little bit more linear. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Scottish right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

From what I understand, again, not being York Wright myself, it's a little bit more intimate, too, right? You you're in a smaller room typically with you know guys that you more know than a York right. Or I mean in a Scottish right.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

This is anecdotal for me, right? I can't speak for every single body, but that has been my experience, yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Yeah, you're a in in Scottish right, you're sitting in a big auditorium, you know, everybody's watching.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Yeah. And that York Right is in more of a lodge room type type experience. So it's a little bit of a a different it depends on what which direction you want to go. I mean, I picked Scottish because that's where my grandfather had gone. So and I know you picked York.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Well, I originally mainly I originally picked Scottish with dad. And then I it the the big thing for me with Scottish Right was the distance, right? And that's what kind of got me most curious about York right here. And then having dipped a toe in now, I'm I'm all in. I'm committed. It's it's very interesting. Well, and and Richard Lewis got you in too.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Well, yeah. I mean, you can't say no to Richard. You cannot say no to Richard Lewis.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

He's got a lot of petitions for the York right here, Newark. Yeah, he's a good man.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

He's a good man. He sure is. Yeah, he really is. And he's somebody we have to get in this studio one of these days sooner rather than later, I I believe. Yeah. Well, so how'd you end up in the secretary chair over there, Chuck?

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Over York, right.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

York right.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

We were having election night tonight, and I know where this story's going. They didn't have a secretary. Nobody would they kept going around and going around and going around. And if they would if somebody they would vote for them, you know, the person would say, No, I don't want that job. And so I said to myself, well, I don't know. I've never been a secretary, so I think, you know, I'll put my name in a hat and see what happens. And as we had said that before, you know, of course, when you do that, boy, oh, hey, we got one. We got one.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

You're gonna be there for the next decade. Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

And you know, and Newark is kind of unusual because a lot of York right, they'll have a secretary, you know, for the chapter, and then a different person, of course, it's a recorder when you get into council. Same thing in in commander.

SPEAKER_05 50:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

But you know, here in Newark, you're secretary of all three bodies. And boy, that that same evening after the elections, you know, Art Sterling grabs me by the arm and come on down here at the office, he starts giving me things right now. You hear, you know, the way the here's how we do things, and here's where this is at.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

And why does that not surprise me at all?

SPEAKER_03 50:46

We already got a key made for you, Chuck, for the five leg cabinet. We'll see you on Mondays and Wednesdays. Right. He runs a tight ship. He does.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah, he does. Yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

He's a good teacher. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

That he is very, very good. That he is. He is a fantastic teacher and probably one of my favorite people to talk to, too.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yep. Got a lot of knowledge. Uh he retains so much that Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

He's probably forgotten more than I'll ever know.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

I mean, well, that was one of the that was one of the big things for me coming into York, right? Was he art had said to me, you know, once you once you get through this, I can teach you everything I know. And uh all of the all of the like cool factor in that went off in my brain. Was like, okay, there's there's no more no more secrecy, no more privacy, like or whatever we're gonna hesitate. Yeah. It was like, let's let's I'm in. Like, yeah, let's let's get there. Awesome. Was that your first job with with the York Right bodies?

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Okay. Is that has that been your only job with the York right bodies, or have you had more than just secretary?

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Well, you know, it went through the chairs. Right. But yeah. But yeah, I'd been through all the chairs, so Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

Wow. Same question. What what's your and apologies if it's not secretary. I'm not trying to put you in trouble, but what what's your favorite uh job in York, right? If you don't mind my asking. Anything really stand out.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

No, not really. I once I got trained by art, you know, as secretary, I really enjoy it. Um to me it keeps you younger, you know. You're down here and and working. Now sometimes my wife gets a little aggravated when I spend so much time down here. But you know, you got right now there's annual reports to be done, you know, and there's times when the dues cards go out, and and of course all the records you gotta keep as as a secretary. But I I guess I'd say secretary is probably one of my favorite places to be. I I I really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

It's a very involved role.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Right. And then of course, it's just like yesterday. I came down and spent about three hours down here because you know, we had council Wednesday night, and all that had to be torn down because we're doing Order of the Temple this coming Tuesday. And I tore all that other down, put it away, and got set up now for Tuesday night. Did all that myself.

SPEAKER_05 53:27

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

But you know, it was supposed to be a rainy day and all that, so I thought, shoot, I'll just go down there and get that done. And that that's what I did. So that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Yeah, I got my I got my email reminder from Tom Gartner on my way here. Heard the phone go off, checked it in the parking lot, like, hey, don't forget, don't forget to be here. Yeah. So you'll enjoy this. I'm excited for it.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

You'll enjoy it. Very excited for it. One of these days. I'll be over there. One of these days. I've been a little busy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

A little a little busy.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

A little busy. But you know, all this talk about all these appendant bodies, and I think that's a great time to pivot into you know, into grotto. So what exactly you know is grotto and what is its purpose? Well, you know, what what is the grotto?

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Well, of course, I've got this in front of me.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Cheat sheet. The cheat sheet.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Yeah, to tell you the truth, I went in grotto probably in the 70s, but I was never active as a grotto member until Freddie Paul and I five years ago, I believe, we decided, well, we'll go to one of their fellowship meetings, which they have a stated meeting and they always have a nice meal and all that. And we did, and lo and behold, that was election night.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

I think I know where this is going.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Exactly. They were they got to the point that they couldn't get a secretary or a treasurer. And Freddie and I were sitting back at a table, kind of not in a corner, but back away because they were having their meeting and all that, doing the elections. And they went through it the same thing as what I talked about in New York right there. Nobody wanted the secretary or treasurer's job. The guys that had it were at the point that they'd wanted to sit back and take life easy, you know, and and uh and just enjoy the the the grotto as uh as a regular member. So they went on and on like that about the election, and pretty soon Freddie and I both, I don't know how we did it, we just made eye contact. And I went, What do you think, Freddie? And he said, if you'll do secretary, he says, I'll do the treasurer, and he says, I'll do the newsletter for him. All right. And like I say, that's only been about five years ago that I've really been active with that. So that is like you're just all at once thrown into it. You know, it wasn't like it that I've been involved in what all they do and the things and all that, and just boom, I'm secretary of the local grotto now. So that's how that happened. And it had been that long ago, but the the years ago grotto you know on waterworks where they used to be that I'm not as familiar with New York.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

You know where that might be.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Is that their water plant right there?

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Just back the that big building?

SPEAKER_03 56:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

That was the grotto's. They built that.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

I'd heard that, but I wasn't okay Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

So when I first went in, they would have family things. I mean, all the time there was things with doing with the they had things for the kids, you know, Christmas and Easter and all that kind of thing, besides just having dinners which your wife or girlfriend, whatever, wanted to attend with you. And and also they had alcohol. But that was one of the things that how grotto got started, that some Masons said, you know, we just go to meetings that do our regular thing and all that, you know, and why can't we have Masonics and and also maybe have a little party time? And that was back in like the 1880s somethings that that got started, you know. And that's how them guys got it started, that they could have alcohol. They were they were Masons in good standing. You had to be a Mason to be a member of the grotto. But that's how they got started years ago. And I think that's the reason they had such a big membership at that time was that guys like to I don't know, lack of words, party, but you know, they'd like to have a little drink every now and again. Yeah, they figured you never did see anybody get out of order or anything like that, but you know, they always had to had the alcohol there for you to enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

And that's how I understand it. It's the it's Masons who are who are kind of figuratively letting their hair down, if you will, being being a little bit more relaxed.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Good way to put it.

SPEAKER_03 58:11

Yeah. A little more comedy, a little more lightheartedness, a little bit more fun. Well, and if you will.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

And I find that interesting too when you think about where lodges started, too, in rooms above bars. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that you know, not allowed, but it's like, well, we started in bars. I mean, what do you think they were doing before and after? You're not wrong. Yeah. So I that's why I find it interesting. It's like, oh no, no, no. And then we had to have grotto just for that whole purpose. So guys that wanted to just have a little bit more fun.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

So you went in in the 70s, you said, in the grotto. Yeah. But weren't active until a few years ago. No. Okay. So uh was there anything that drew you to it? Was it family that kind of pointed you towards just getting involved in the appendant bodies early or uh again, it was a friend at Rockwell where I worked, and he was active in the grotto, and he talked me into putting putting a petition in, you know, and said all the fun they have and all this and that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

The usual thing, like guys will t the Masons will tell you. So I did. And but when I was they don't have per se degree work like we do in Blue Lodge and some of the other appendiced bodies. I can remember being on a stage and they blindfolded you, but they would have a a chair set up where you when you sit in it, you got shocked. I'm serious. It was a fun, it was a fun initiation. Okay. They would give you a little pill before you just as soon as you got there.

unknown 59:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

But when you went to urinate, yeah, it would be pure red. I mean, it's hold what I mean that's the kind of that's telling you these things because that kind of I think sets the stage as to how they did grotto and in it was it one of these that uh the degree work that you went Yeah traditional drink degree work you know in Masonry.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

So it's a little bit more yeah, it's a little bit more practical. Yeah, there's some more practical jokes to it than a little bit more lighthearted than a regular lodge.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Oh, yeah. Because you could hear them laughing the things they did to you, they were just having a ball, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

That's amazing. Always take the red pill, just remember that. Always take the red pill.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

You didn't know they just I'd have forgetting what the guy told me that you had to take this pill, you didn't know what it was for, but after a little while you knew what it was for about 90 minutes later, you figured it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:52

My lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

So if if uh if if I'm a master mason and I want to join the grotto, what do I need to do to be able to join the grotto?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Just a petition, ask for a petition, naturally, and uh and of course you'll be just it's treated the same as a blue lodge, you're voted on and all that. Yeah. You know. But I don't know if you know in Scottish right, and I don't think they do it in grotto either. They really don't investigate you. And the thinking is he's a Mason in good standing, he pays his dues and he's been accepted as a Mason and went through the degrees, you know. W unless something might have happened between a little bit there, but they think, well, there isn't we don't really have to go talk to him and investigate him to the point that uh to make sure he's okay and all that, you know, like you normally do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

That tends to make sense to me just because of how blue lodges are run as far as unmasonic conduct is concerned. You'd think that if there were a very serious problem, somebody would have brought on Masonic charges and it would handle itself. You guys wouldn't have to do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

Yep. Yeah. Of course it when the they do vote on the petition, you know. Yes, of course, right and all that. And they always ask, you know, has anybody got any objections and all that?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

So similar to Blue Lodge has to be unanimous? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Certainly does. That's awesome. You know thinking about you know, as we as we look at, you know, we talked about the different ritual work in you know, Blue Lodge, Scottish Right, York, what's the ritual work look like? I mean, is it very similar to a Blue Lodge or a grotto? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

They really don't have any ritual work.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Really? Are there specific degrees that you go through or a degree or no? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

So that means no no inspections?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

No inspections. No memory. You do have a Supreme Council. There's people the Supreme Council has a uh the grand monarch and a sec grand secretary and all that, you know, that yeah.

unknown 1:02:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Just like Blue Lodge or anybody else does. So it's got some organization to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Well, it sure does. So it's got like it's got a lot of the foundations like we have. It's just not there's not degrees or rituals or things like that that are necessarily followed a hunt the same way.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

Now, from a w when I think of a grotto, I think of an individual lodge, if you will. I'm doing air quotes here. Do you guys have districts as well? Is there any type of hierarchy above a single grotto where there are no I think it's just like Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

I think it's like the grand state. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Okay. There's just different grottos, but it's just all in Ohio or grottos in Indiana or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

So there's not like a 19th district or something like that for grottoes in Ohio. No. Understood. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

No. And you do have a deputy. In fact, he comes all the time, you know, and he just observes that you have a an opening and have a regular meeting and and and have a secretary that tells the minutes and and uh the financial report and all that. So you do all that kind of stuff at your regular meetings.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

But is nothing I was saying, but nothing like an inspection or degree work and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:12

Is it is it anything like the table lodges for Blue Lodge? Like are you generally having a meal with the meeting?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

We always said we always have a meal, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

Is that during or like at the at the before or after point?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

So it is kind of like a table lodge. Then you have your meal and then you do your work right after that. Speaking of table lodge, that's gonna be fun to work on for here. But so but that's good to know that there, you know, that is out there. And it's to me, that's a great experience that guys can go get to learn a little bit about what a table lodge even looks like. So a lot of guys haven't even seen those. Right. Myself included. I've I mean, I've had the privilege to see two and be the guest speaker at one, but I love that. Uh again, that was outside the district, though. I mean, it was in another state. Yeah. Here and locally I've not done that, but I I love that there's an appendant body that allows you to kind of get that experience because again, it's one that's lacking in, I think, a lot of lodges. They just don't do table lodges.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Right. Now, when they had the when a grotto had the uh building there on the waterworks that we talked about earlier, you know, and I we I talked that the they served alcohol and all that. But now they sold the building and moved to Heath, as you know. Now, because Heath is in a blue lodge district or whatever, you know, you can't have alcohol. So we do not have alcohol at our meals or anything anymore.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

But what we'd have to do, and we haven't done it for since I've been in, if you was going to have something where you wanted to serve alcohol and have a dinner with your for your family or whatever, they'd have to go someplace else. They'd have to rent a place or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:53

So I get the impression though that I mean, don't get me wrong, being able to relax and have a drink or two i is certainly Fun and I think it kind of contributes to the atmosphere, but I don't think that's like the That's probably not the glue. Yeah, it's not the glue that keeps everybody together. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Well that that was exactly the case even when they were at Waterworks. We would have a meal, you know, and everything, and it was available. The alcohol was available, but it got so there was very few guys even going on and getting a beer or a whiskey or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

It was more about the fellowship with the meal.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Again, really about the table lodge aspect of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:30

Right. Well, and and with that in mind, I mean I know we talked quite a bit about music earlier, and I know once upon a time, even in Blue Lodge, music played a role. Is does music play a role at all in grotto?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

Not now it doesn't. But yes, they used to have a band and all that. You know, the the guys were members, you know, the grotto guys, and they they would they would play and all that when they guys would have live music too. Yes. Yes. But that's been a good many years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

I'm like picturing like I don't know what kind of music I'm picturing even being played. What kind of music was played if there was a ma uh like a band there?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

Like a lot of dancing, you know, where you could get up and dance, that type of thing. So like yeah, because they always had your wives or whatever, you know, and people would get up and dance. The floor would be full.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:14

Um, I'm picturing like 60s doo-wop happening right there. Yeah. I mean, that that's what I'm really picturing that. So that's amazing to think, you know, think that through. Would would I find you on the dance floor there, Matt? Oh, dude, I'm the biggest wallflower.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

I would I would be the guy with snarky comments about people who can't dance but have way more confidence than I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

They might hear you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:39

We got dance lessons occurring next door that probably heard that terrible quip.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

So so this sounds like it's more of like casual events than than formal events that take place in the grotto.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Yes. Even our dress now is very in fact, I'd go like I am right now, you know, to a annual meeting or I mean a uh stated meeting, you know. Jeans and a book.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Did it used to be a little bit more formalized with like suits, ties, things like that? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

And it just kind of graduated into this casual.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

And I think blue lodges have kind of gone that way too. You know, we were wearing suits and ties at one point for stated meetings, and now it's more business casual. Largely, yes. Degree work is obviously obviously still in the suit. But yeah, it just seems that that's the way we've gone. And and I don't disagree with that uh you know either, because again, I think that keeps guys coming in and coming back if you're comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

Yep. Uh Heath, I don't know if do you tend Heath?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

I've been out to aerospace a few times.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

Well, it seems like here lately, my golly, that's almost every stated meeting. They'll they'll put the word out it's casual dress. Yeah. You know. Now they don't like jeans too much. Yeah, no. But I noticed guys are starting to do that more as it progresses along with the more casual. Yeah, a little bit more casual.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:03

I I don't I can't obviously speak for anybody but myself, but I've never I mean, even when I was in the East, I never thought that of I never thought of it as disrespectful at all. Like I'd rather have them here and see that they've put in the work, yeah. Right. And not worry about what it is that they're dressed up like.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

But you've got some of the older Masons now. They they they that's they don't they think genes and all that is disrespectful, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:29

In an absolutely perfect world, Chuck, I'd still be in tuxedos sometimes, right? But the the reality is that many times I'd rather have the bodies than the you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

Well, don't we always say the internal, not the external qualifications? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:44

I mean that's uh that's something that I've always I've thought about that so many times, you know, when some of these older guys will say, now, you better not wear your jeans, you know. I want to see you in a suit and tie and all that, you know. Well, that's not what it says in the inner work.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

Yeah. Well I know I I always feel conflicted because I've I've actually said it in this microphone before. I I recognize there's a psychological impact to dressing too. Yes, right? You carry yourself differently. You I feel like people hold themselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

The community sees you with different things. Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

And I think again, when it comes down to to ritual work, that's super important. Yeah. You've got to comport yourself differently. Right. Agreed. But for a you know, a business meeting, I can do a business meeting in my pajamas. I mean, I'm not going to, but please don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

I can see that when you do degree work having new candidates coming in, you know. If they see you in jeans and a t-shirt and everything, they think, well, that's that's that's the thing, you know, and so that's what they're gonna wear. Right. And and even uh when I was worked at Rockwell, we had to wear a white shirt and tie all the time out on the floor, anything, you know. But the the thing they put in your head was is the respect.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

People will respect you more if you're dressed a little bit more respectable.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

It it is strange how it works. I don't I don't know what's at play behind it, but it's true. I mean they Yes. I I n I very rarely have to wear a suit these days, except for for lodge and you know, the occasional wedding or something. But I know if I run into a filling station on my way to a wedding, yeah, the the service you get is different in a suit than it is in a jeans and a t-shirt. It just is. Traveling.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

You in a suit and went over to Kroger or something to pick up some things to take home and boy, people before degree work.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

If I have to yeah, if I have to stop and get refreshments before degree work, and I'm walking into Kroger with my suit on at you know 6 30 at night, people look at you different when you're doing that. Yeah, but I think it also stresses the importance of what you're doing to those candidates, too. You're not just coming in in jeans and a t-shirt, you're showing them, yeah, this is important. I specifically got dressed up to come and be a part of this for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

You know, as we think about too, some of the events with Grotto, are these open events? I mean, so can spouses, significant others, kids, are they allowed to come to the events that Grotto has? Yes. Yes. Really? So it it's basically open to all Masons in their families then.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:15

Right. Yeah. That's what I was, you know, when I was talking earlier, the the things that they used to have, that the the wives were always there and they had the band and the dancing, and the kids would be there running around, you know. And it was a family thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

So were these events, are they are they dances? Like how how would you describe them? What what are some events that you're you've seen put on, I guess, by the grotto?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

Well, I think I mentioned that before. They always had a big Christmas party.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:47

You know, that was that was one of their big things, and of course they had presents for the children. And they always had a had an Easter thing that was a a little bit more not so partyish, but a little more formal, I guess you would say, because it'd be an Easter.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:04

It wasn't as loose. I guess I would say, you know, as you would have like a Christmas party or something like that. It seemed like that was a really a big thing. The Christmas was always the that place was full, that place around Waterworks. I mean, it was totally full. It you just couldn't believe all the people that was in there. Wow. And and and when they had awards or anything, you know, like we do in our lodges. Usually it was even full for that because it they'd bring the the families would come in and it was a big thing to have people come up and get their 25 or 50 year pin or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:42

And that's amazing. I'm here I'm yearning for uh for a time gone by, unfortunately. Oh yeah. I would like to see that again. Miss that. Well, I I mean uh the selfishly, I I mentioned I got I got little ones. So the idea of being able to have them you know c come in and see the relationships that I've built and introduce the wife to people and and they're good. Yeah, yeah. Like that's that that tight-knit com community, right? That community of trust. I I kind of like that idea. Yeah, I really do love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:17

You know, as we've weaved through this a little bit, we've talked, you know, a little bit about Scottish right, York right. You know, does the grotto exist on either of these paths or is it separate altogether? Is it something that is you know weaves into those two bodies, or does it just exist over here on its own?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:38

Well or maybe I'm maybe I'm phrasing that wrong. Grotto, is it it's not a part of Scottish or York, right? It's kind of a standalone body. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:45

Right. Okay. Yeah, it doesn't have anything to do with um with uh Scottish right, York right, Blue Lodge or anything. Totally standalone.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:52

So there would be nothing that we you know if I went in there and be like, oh, I'm not gonna recognize this from Scottish right, right? Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:59

Yeah, you wouldn't no, it wouldn't even be close.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:06

He says with a laugh. I was gonna say he thinks it with a laugh. I'm like, huh. I might have to I might have to get that petition after this tonight. You know, and we've talked a little bit about the the broader or the structure of the grottos, so it's a little bit looser in the fact that there's not like districts and things like that, but there is kind of the like the overarching, I guess, Grand Lodge of Ohio type thing to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

Yeah, they they keep a little bit of a strong fist type thing. It's like me being the secretary. I get things all the time for edicts.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

You know, that go on, same as in Blue Lodges and some of the others. Uh any changes or just any notification communications that come through the Supreme Council, you know, they they correspond that through me. And then, of course, I in our meetings, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

So very similar in the sense that they want there's a there's a higher body that that kind of pushes out information for you guys, and you guys you do have a set of rules that you gotta stay in. You gotta color you gotta color between the lines just there's bylaws and and all that there.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:13

Okay. Interesting. I only color between the lines with the crayons that I can see. Chris is colorblind if you were not aware, Chuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:23

No, I didn't know that. Of course, you you know, in uh grotto, you you were required to wear a fez. Oh. Oh, you've seen the shriners with their fezzes? Yeah, that's the the grotto wears those.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

They wear those uh similar or different color or pretty similar.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:39

Only thing is it has the grotto, that guy that looks like a Muslim, I guess. Okay, okay. Yeah. And then if you become monarch, uh usually the the the uh the grotto will buy you another fez that's got all this sparkly stuff on it. I mean, it really is really sharp looking.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

Oh, that is fancy. I can just see Matt with a sparkly fez on right now. I don't know that it'd fit my weird-shaped head, but I'll give it a go. Yeah, I have heard you know, rumor that many a Masonic lecture was taught and learned at grotto over you know a few beverages. Any truth to that, or is it something you know you'd prefer not to admit or deny?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:23

I don't know if it's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:24

I don't I've never never really that when I was a young Mason, much well, younger still, I guess. Because I I'm hoping I still got some years left on me. One or two. But yeah. When I when I was younger still, I'd heard that the grotto was where people went to learn the lectures and charges for Blue Lodge because everybody everybody over there was working on them as well. You'd do it over a couple of beers and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

Well, to be honest with you, I have never seen that. Oh, okay. I've never I never did witness anything like that that you know that's that was the main purpose. We're gonna have a little few beverages and and study. I'd I've I'd like to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:06

Well, I think we need to start that tradition. There you go. You're not kidding. You are not kidding.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:14

Well, a more serious question. Is there anything about the grotto that kind of enhances the Masonic journey for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

Well, other than the fact that it seems like they're a little bit more family oriented oriented. I know the Blue Lodge would like to be, but it seems like the grotto has more of a success doing things with the family than you do in the blue lodges or and uh you know, Scottish right kind of pushes family. When you get in commandry they'll they'll they'll uh emphasize family a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:56

But I think that's the main thing with grotto that it uh it it it's what enhanced me to become a grotto member then, you know, because I was a young man and it was it was fun to go to those things, you know, all the well and and on just from what you've told me today, it seems like and I don't disagree with you, right? I've I've not been a part of a Masonic body that wasn't big on family and how important it is. Right. But it feels it feels more philosophical, whereas what you're talking about is more of that rubber meeting the road, like they're putting on events, they're encouraging you to bring the spouse, they're encouraging you to bring the kids, right? So exactly. Okay. So it's it's less philosophical and more like real-world application, like bring bring people. We want we want to build a community here. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

Exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:46

What do you think stops like Blue Lodges, York Wright Lodges from breaking that philosophical barrier of being able to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

A lot of it is the age. Because just like myself, at my age, you know, I don't have even any grandchildren per se, you know. And things like went on b back then was a lot of young men that were starting their families, they had the children, and now you've got the Masons that are older and they don't have these families and the children that are the even the grandchildren so much, you know. And I think maybe the the age has a lot to do with Masonic functions in that respect.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:33

You know what I'm saying? That you know, like you guys, there's there aren't very many of you young guys in masonry anymore, to be truthful.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:41

We've we've unfortunately had that conversation a handful of times. It it feels like late Gen X through current date, not a lot of joiners. A lot of people just kind of doing their own thing. They're not a part of anything. It's not just masonry that they're not looking at, it's it's you know, elks, moose lodges, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

Like everybody who's a little meal and a little drink. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:09

Yeah. Exactly. And when you talk to somebody about masonry, what what are the what's their reaction? You you mean oh, you mean somebody works with bricks or something?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:23

I wish I could.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:25

So many people you don't even know what masonry it hardly exists.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:29

In the internet age, I wish I could have that conversation. Usually usually I either get people who think they know everything because they've watched a couple of History Channel documentaries or National Treasures with Bright Cage and or they're the other way and they're super kooky and they think that we're doing weird, you know, conspiratorial things down here. We're not. If we are, we're doing it very poorly. Very, very bad execution.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

No, I no, I think you're right. You know, there's a set of virtues that we try to instill upon folks, you know, through the Blue Lodge, through the York Right, through Scottish Rite. Are there any virtues or lessons from you know grotto that they try to reinforce with folks? Thinking about what we try to like, brother love, relief, and truth with the Blue Lodge.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

Well Yeah, it's really basically the same. And you mean they're Masons, the Grottoes, you know, so it that background of brotherly love and everything is it's the same in the grotto as it is, yeah. It's there isn't any difference in that respect, you know. Just like Masons, you know, help one another and assist one another and and grottos do the same thing, you know. It's they stand up for their membership and if you're a grotto member, just like your blue lodge does and and helps one another out.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:59

I like it. I no, I love it. I and uh and again thinking about the blue lodges and the grottoes, what you know how can the blue lodges and the grottoes work to support each other better today?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:14

You gotta get that word out, I think is the main thing, you know. I d we don't advertise. So if you're does your next door neighbor know about masonry?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:28

He does, only because his wife's grandfather is in it. Yeah. And yeah, that he he he's got a we have kids that are of similar age, and so between birthday parties and everything, I've gotten to meet that gentleman as well and shake hands. But even even with kids the same age and having me as a neighbor and family in, can't get him down here.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:53

You know, maybe another path, you know, when masonry became so popular, it was a lot of because guys coming back from wars or whatever. It was a camaraderie.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:04

Do we need to go after people that can recently come out of the military or something? You know, they like that camaraderie, you know, and make them aware of what what the masonries are masons are about. You know, I don't know if that would be a good path to pursue or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:21

Uh Veterans are an interesting are an interesting group, and I certainly would support that. We've we've had a couple in Newark 97 that have worked out very well in terms of their commitment and been being really good guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:34

But even still, it's kind of surprising that that there aren't more because I mean Well, and knowing the Marine Corps League, you know, we have a brother that works very heavily with that. And I was just talking with him last week, you know, their numbers are dwindling too.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:49

And that's what I was that's quite literally where I was going because it it surprises me that we have so few veterans in the lodge knowing exactly what you're talking about. They're coming from that that really tight-knit group of gentlemen. They're looking for that kind of brotherhood after the fact. And we've had a 20 20-year global war on terror. You would think there would be more. You would think. So I've uh to me that that would be one, as I said, a path to pursue, you know, to to get people and men interested in masonry and well one of the things that I uh and I'm saying this off the cuff, not try to put it anybody on the spot here, since we got a Christmas party coming up in December, no doubt, but you talking about the Grotto Christmas party and how big it used to be. And us having, well, you and the other masters having the idea of doing the feast of St. John, combining efforts.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:46

Yeah. What's to stop us from combining with the grotto and having a little bit of fun? That's right. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:52

That's right. What do we have to have the Christmas party up on three, or can we do something a little different? Can we can we add some numbers to the mix and make it a party?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:02

That's just where you're going.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:03

Yeah. Just a thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:04

Yeah, that's good thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:06

We'll have to revisit this episode here in a couple months, I think. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:14

Off the cuff here. What's the funniest story or thing you've seen happen at a grotto event, Chuck? Funniest.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:23

Probably what I said before when they would sit you down in the chair, you know. You got you got to see some of the other candidates go through that, you know. And I suppose that's probably one of the funniest things. The reaction down right back up.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:37

Didn't that happen to you? Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:42

Did it happen to Fred Paul, too? I guess is my question.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:46

Now I don't know when Freddie went into grotto.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:48

Okay. I was gonna say, because I can just see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:51

Yeah. He'd give him get up and give him a piece of his mind, wouldn't he?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:57

Start looking around for who did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:59

Yeah. This is gonna stop.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:04

There will be no more of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

You know, as we're kind of wrapping up, too, you know, if you could give one piece of advice to young Masons out there, what would you say to those young Masons out there?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:23

Be as involved as you would like to be, but keep your family in consideration. I think a lot of wives don't really understand Masonry and they think, you know, that's they're spending too much time and you they wondering what's really going on and all that. And that they ought to explain to their wives, and I think if you have things going on with the family and the and with the wives and children, they will see what goes on. you know, with with the masonry and maybe they'll understand it a little bit more. So just uh the guy the the the young men should should realize that they need to explain to the family because it's years ago it seemed like everybody knew what a mason what went on with masonry, you know, what it was all about and everything. But what I asked you a little bit just a little bit ago, you know, everybody you talk to, they they don't even never even heard of a masonry now. So I think the awareness is making other people around them understand what why they what they uh see in masonry and maybe you know that get in their mind that why I like to go to the meetings and all that. So okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:52

Yeah well Chuck thank you so much it has been an absolute pleasure to have you here at the Newark 97 podcast studio and we we completely appreciate your time here and it's been a fantastic uh fantastic time.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

Well I I really enjoyed it. Of course you know when I came down you didn't know what to expect from all that but uh I really did enjoy it and I I hope it's a success you know that uh something that you can put out and oh this is pretty phenomenal maybe other people will get something out of it you know and and a little understanding about masonry or that's the hope.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:26

Yeah and it's been phenomenal I can't thank you enough Chuck seriously thank you thank you and again a special thank you to illustrious brother Chuck Geyser for being our guest here this week what a great interview yeah I really appreciated him coming down here uh some of the stories his his interesting journey there yeah I mean we always talk about the journeys not being the same in Freemasonry and boy what a different journey than what you've experienced what I've experienced.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:04

A hundred percent but and just that I think you said it really well when you were like but that last 30 years like he's done so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

Yeah I mean I never knew that he was a 60 year Mason. I guess I had forgotten that until he talked about that. But what a great journey and boy we're really excited to tell these stories and continue to tell these stories. You know speaking about that again, you know, while we're really focusing on those appendant bodies remember next month's episode is our special Father's day episode and boy I think the stories coming out of that are either going to embarrass us or be really good or both.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:42

Yeah it might be equal measures of both we'll see we'll see how that goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:47

But the you know that is once again going to do it for us here at Beyond the Door. We really hope you enjoyed this episode and we look forward to connecting with you each and every month. Please help us grow our audience by subscribing to us on your Podcatcher of choice as well as sharing this podcast with your brothers friends and family. Did you enjoy this episode? Please leave us your feedback on your podcatcher of choice again we want only the good reviews right or just one or just one do we have one I don't remember I'd have to check okay but hey be the first one to give us that really good review. Leave us your comments leave us your feedback we really want to hear from everyone out there. Do you want to get in touch with us? Newark 97 is on Facebook Instagram and Twitter you can also reach us via email at newark.97 Until next time stay safe and as always search for light in Masonry