Being a Mom Boss with Dr. Joyce Khang

We talk about it all! From running the house, to running her practice and how going against the advice of family and friends has helped and where it's brought in challenges. I appreciate her candid nature and willingness to share. Her authenticity rings true for all female practice owners and the ones thinking about how to go into practice ownership.

Transcript

0:00

Welcome back to the podcast from dentist to denovo. I'm Jonathan Miller and I couldn't be more excited to have a

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7 seconds

certified Instagram influencer but also a dentist and also a mom and also a wife and uh I think the term sometimes these

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days is maybe mom boss. Have you heard that, doc? Yes. This is Joyce the dentist. I might say doc or doctor. I

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hope that's okay. Um but I'm so excited that you decided to come in and join me here. Um, and I know your practice isn't too far away, uh, but you are busy. So,

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thank you for that round of applause if you will, but so, thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

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Um, let's dive into because we already been chatting and and we could probably go on for for hours here, but let's dive into I I bring that part up about um,

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well, let's be honest. When I first messaged you about being on the podcast, you were like, I I'm not a startup and like we didn't work together. All true.

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I wanted you to talk about those things I mentioned. I work with a lot of female dentists and um it's funny sometimes we're starting project and then they

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call me up and go we have news and I already know what's about to be said next. We're expecting you know and we're expecting sometimes our first one or sometimes our second or third or I can

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very distinctively remember one uh of the the female dentists I helped not too long ago. She was not expecting at all and just kind of surprised we're having

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a third, you know, much later in life um when she thought she was maybe done having kids. So she decided let's have a startup uh and then also now let's have

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a little one. Uh, and so I wanted to hear a lot about that because I find that, you know, I think that if I'm

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being frank, um, I find that women business owners are better than male business owners for certain reasons. And I will say why. Um, the one of the

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biggest ones is you're more typically in my experience more caring about the relationship and about the experience.

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Whereas when I ask and I did this one time in a in a room full of dental students, raise your hand on who wants to be a practice owner or not. Um, all

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the guys raised their hand very kind of like chess out and one girl and it was a 50-50 mix. One girl was like this and I said, "Why just one? What's going on?"

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And all the guys were like, "Well, we're I know about profits and about bottom lines and margins and Ibidas and this and that and the other." So I asked the lady, I was like, "Hey, why would you

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why would you kind of raise your hand?" And she's like, "Well, I really prioritize work life balance and I might want to have children one day and I care about the relationships and about the

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patient experience." And I kind of told all the guys in the room, that's the proper way. So, this is why I wanted to have you on to talk about your, you

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know, being a mom and being a wife and you got to be present in all those arenas, plus you're the CEO of your enterprise, um, and you run a team and you run a household and all that stuff.

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So, how did you obviously when you started your practice, you you bought it, is that correct? Or how did that come about? Yeah. When did you have this idea that you were going to go into

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practice ownership? always knew it or sort of kind of knew it or No, I I actually never wanted to be a practice owner. Awesome.

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Uh my mom was a practice owner. Oh, okay.

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Yeah, she's a dentist at USC86. She was one of the few females that went on to own her own practice. So, I like grew up in the dental

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space. Oh, I'm a Nepo like dental neo baby. Okay.

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So, I always knew I didn't want to be a practice owner. Even when I was going to dental school, people were like, "Why did your mom sell her practice like while I was in dental school?"

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like, well, I'm I'm not going to be a practice owner. It looks hard. True.

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And she never came to any of my things when I was growing up. And I was kind of like, I'm going to do it differently.

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So, when I um like joined the workforce, I was an associate and then I never really wanted to open. And then, you know, fast forward, I opened.

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So, um it was never in the plans. My original goal was to work three days a week and like go to Pilates, go to

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Fashion Island with my stroller and like live a live a balanced life, but that didn't really happen.

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Um, so yeah, it you never plan for it.

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And the funny thing is when you said that a lot of the people that you work with, women who are doing their startups, they end up getting pregnant.

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I have noticed this a lot of people Yes.

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I feel like all my like I don't know if it's like all it's really common I think when women are doing startups they get

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pregnant or like they're doing both at the same time. Have you noticed that? I I mean it's happened a lot with me but I didn't know it was like a I didn't it was a common I didn't know it was a

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common theme. I just thought it was like oh this is happening.

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I said it on Instagram stories the other day and then like a bunch of my friends who are pregnant doing startups they were like that's me that's me that's me.

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But I think I think there's like an energy about being pregnant. I have this theory. It's kind of like, you know, how when you're pregnant in the third trimester, you're nesting.

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I feel like it's a nesting energy. And I mean, I only know from the guy's side, so sort of.

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Yeah. Like you start like taking cleaning things, making things orderly, and then that energy is just so abundant

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and powerful. And when you put it into a practice setting, they like get everything ready for their practice and then the practice opens. I I honestly don't know how they do it after that.

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Okay. Okay. No, no, fair enough. So when you you opened then you had baby is that oh um so I took over the practice in 2014.

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Okay.

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And then I had Preston my firstborn 2020. Mhm.

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I was already married for like several years and I I actually didn't want to have kids for a while cuz I just never felt ready as the years were going

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by. And then I decided to um you know try because I was like getting old and then my gynecologist was like you got to

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try around like 44 45 at least. And we got pregnant during the pandemic.

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Okay. Wow. It's a scary time to get pregnant.

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Yes. Yes. But it was like and I cried. I cried when I found out I was pregnant.

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Um because I just wasn't like mentally ready, emotionally ready. And even though I had a good marriage and everything, but I I thought it was going

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to like ruin my career or derail my career or detract from my career in some way. And I really didn't want that

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because my career was always number one for me.

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And so, yeah, that's that's kind of why I cried. But what I found is that after I had Preston, I became even more like

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laser focused on my career. And um now I have number two. I just took a three-month maternity leave and closed the practice and I'm back and the

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practice is doing better than ever, which thank God because I drained my bank account to go on that maternity leave. But um yeah, there's like a really focused energy about being pregnant.

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Yeah, I would agree with that. I also find a lot of um whenever I'm talking to doctors that have had children, there's a lot of analogies to raising children

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and building a practice. Um, and you know, there's stages of growth and there's all these things and and so I also think there's something to that.

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Uh, maybe what I told my wife one day when we were in this like our our boys are are grown up now. Well, seven and five, so they're grown up a bit. They

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don't nap anymore. We're past that stage, right? And so the stuff though that we figured out we could accomplish in like a 30 minute nap. I'm like, we would have ran the world by now if we

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knew how effective we could be. But when you don't have kids, you're kind of 30 minutes this, that, the other.

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when you have to be super effective with that 30 minutes, you figure that out during nap time of children. And then when you need to be effective in your practice, you know that there isn't any

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minute to waste and you're just I don't know. I find that there's something to that part to your uh piggyback off of your nesting energy, but also just like uh oh, I know that this time is precious

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and valuable and I need to get this, you know, I need to get this is done, if you will. Um so I think there's something there to that.

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Yeah. You become like focused laser and nothing gets in the way.

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Yes. Um, like actually there's a lot of soulsearching that happens when you have the baby and then you have the career

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that you like were building so seriously for a long time.

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The the baby, it it doesn't ruin your career by any means, but it makes you rethink the way

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that you spend your time, which is your most valuable asset. And then um you kind of have to trim trim your life in a

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way like all the stuff that I used to do that was not important. It had to go.

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And then when you put all that energy into the things that actually matter, it blossoms so much more because you're putting all of that energy into one direction.

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Does it make you feel like about, you know, raising your children? I know your son's five now, right? Um, is he just turning five or he's like five and four months?

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Okay. Five and four months. Um, is there any part of you that's like, hey, I'm doing this to show them like kind of

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what a mom boss is and that mom can do because you grew up with a clearly a powerful woman figure. I mean, it was very much male-dominated back then. Um,

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we're starting to see kind of a tide turn in that like it's not I think that most of the practices changing hands today are male owners. Um, but I think

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that we're definitely seeing the tide turn. We see it in dental school graduation rates and more females coming out of school. Are you doing a little bit of this for that too? Like, hey, mom can have you can do it all. You could be

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all these things if you want or no, not really.

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I wish I could say that I was doing it for them like so they could see me do it all because sometimes I do think that

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and sometimes I'll share like Instagram inspiration that is along those lines.

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But if I'm going to be really honest, I do it for myself. Um, I'm not built to not have a career. Uh

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I if I had to stay home every day and be a stay-at-home wife, which is really hard. Yes, I agree.

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I don't think that I could, I think I would be depressed if if I had to do that. So, I just think I'm wired to have a career. And I do that for myself.

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Um now that I have a daughter, I kind of feel a little bit more that I'm doing it for her, too.

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But like, let's be real. even if I didn't have her, I'd be doing what I'm doing because I I need to have it to be like happy and sane and to have something of my own. And I think that's what I want them to see.

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Okay. So then when you It's interesting because usually the way you talk about it, I would have said, "Oh, you started your practice for sure." But you took over a practice, is that correct?

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It just took it over from somebody you knew or somebody who was like, "Hey, this is kind of cool if you want to come in here and associate." Like, did you do the associate track to ownership track or were you were they like, "Hey, it's

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for sale. Come in and get it if you want it." It was for sale. Okay.

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And back in I don't know what has happened, but in 2014 Mhm. this is a two-chair practice by the way. Okay.

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Which is a non-desirable practice. I could sell it for almost nothing now. Fair enough.

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But like back then there was a eight person wait list for this practice. I was fighting for this practice. Wow.

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And I just like saw it on some uh broker listing went in. I was like this is the one. My mom was like don't do it. It's a

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really bad location. Although it's like close to here, it's in the neighborhood.

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Yes. So, it's in a good like macro area, but micro no walk by anything like that.

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It's not very It's not a very good location. Okay. Okay. Um, and thank God I have social media.

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That's how I get my patients. But back then I didn't have social media. So, my mom was really worried about that and I didn't listen to her. I just I really

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fell in love with this two-chair practice. I fought all the people to get it and then I took over and then I lost like half the patients from attrition. I

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have replaced every single thing inside that practice. I completely like remodeled it in 2022 23 spent a ton of money. Okay.

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And then now I might be getting kicked out next year.

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So it's been a whole whirlwind CEO life for sure, you know, or business owner life for sure. So what

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I'm kind of blown away because obviously at some point you listen to mom about dental school unless you're the type that she was like don't go to dental school and then you did it anyway or

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she she didn't want me to go to dental school.

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Okay. So you went to dental school anyway then she didn't want you to get this practice and you're like I'm doing it anyway.

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Um maybe your mom's really really smart with this reverse psychology thing. I don't know. Or maybe you just it's just one of those relationships. But so mom

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says don't do it. you know this yeah the macro looks good but the the traditional um we'll call it curb appeal was not was

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not there uh and you somehow just felt it in your gut I would say is that fair so I the reason why I'm reiterating that so much especially for the audience is

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when I work with startup doctors or buying doctors there's there's we can analyze the data as much as you want but I tell them all look like you still have to dec you have to make the decision is

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this right for you or not because the analytics can say whatever they say people will tell you what you you know what they think is the right thing. And of course with social media today, if

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you went to out and put out your practice, hey, I'm thinking about this.

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It's two chairs. Is this I bet you most of the group like, no, no, don't do it.

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You're dumb. This and that and the other, whatever. You still felt compelled to this is damn it, this is the one for me.

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And I just think that that is important for anybody that that there still has to be a little bit of that because if you're not feeling that at all, um

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you're not going to get enough data points or enough audience or or or votes, if you will, to say, "Yeah, you should do it." You still have to have a little bit of like is that fair?

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Yeah. I mean I You were married when you did this or you guys were together? Oh, yes. I was married. Okay. Early.

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She's like very passive about my the decisions I make because I do what I want anyway.

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Supportive husband. I call that I call it supportive husband. Yeah.

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So I am just the type like I'll I'll do what I want. um even if it goes against like

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a lot of wisdom, but I do look towards authority figures who really really know the space. I think maybe if you're

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really close to me, I'm kind of like, oh, well, that's your opinion. It's not it's not like you're a pro at this, which by the way, my mom is a killer

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businesswoman. Like she's she's she slayed it. Okay.

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Um and she's retired and all that. So, I should have listened to her. It's and I am not actually a very good businesswoman. I didn't know what I was

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doing. I just like felt the feels. I was like, "This smells like Newport Beach air." I was like, "This is that's fair." Yeah.

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And then I was like, I'm I'm just going to figure it out afterwards. So I think that something that I do is I feel like

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everything is figure outable and I also do I'm not I'm kind of like

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risk averse in a way where the the tut practice like what's the worst that could happen.

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The startup though that scares me.

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People have asked me would you do a startup right now and I'm like oh I don't know. I'm I'm scared. So, like even though I do what I want, there's a

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part of me that's kind of like I don't do everything that I want.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, your husband did a startup recently. Just did a startup.

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Yeah. Is it two months old? I'm following the journey on social. I don't know. It's Yeah.

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It's about as old as your newborn, right? Like it's kind of randomly.

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You guys are really all in. So, he is passive to you in the degree of like, "Hey, honey, you do you." And I, like I said, I call that supportive

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husband. Uh, I do the same with my wife and we're very happily married and we've been married now 11 years this year. Uh, so I I can appreciate where he's coming

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from. Uh, but were you in his ear to do a startup or honey? No, please don't do a startup. This is not a good idea.

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Oh my gosh. When he told me, so he was working at a DSO um, and he's a partner

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and you know the drive and everything it was really getting to him and he's just like when we I was pregnant with my second and he's like I'm I'm done. I

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need to I need to like open close to home. I want to be closer. Like that was his main thing. He wanted to be closer. But

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I think that there is a part of him that wanted to have that autonomy.

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And all of our friends are dentists. So he sees how everyone else does. And I

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think that he felt fairly confident that he could have something of his own and he would have to to make that jump for

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himself. So when he told me he wanted to do something, I was like, "Okay, let's let's acquire." let's acquire. So, we were looking around the area for a really long time

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and just everything was horrible. And I remember that because I looked for a really long time, too, before I found my two chair practice that wasn't worth the

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two chairs I was buying. But like it was it's bad out there.

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The stuff that you're buying is really like the buildings are dilapidated.

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There's something wrong with every single one. And I told him, you know, there is going to be something wrong with all of them. Um, but there was just something too wrong with all of them.

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And at a certain point, he was like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do an acquisition. I want to do a startup. And literally, I was I was

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like, why was like I was like, are you depending on me to support the

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family for like for a few years while you get this up and running? Because we're not fresh chickens. Yeah, he took a step back from something where

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he had a stable job and he was making a lot of money. And then now I'm like, are you depending on me? I'm pregnant.

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I, you know, have a twochair practice, which, you know, per chair, how much can you produce per chair? So, I have a

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two-chair practice. I do probably better than an average two-chair practice because I do cosmetic dentistry, but I am not the one

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to be supporting the entire family. all the eggs in one basket.

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That's your job. My job is to be happy and to like do do the things that are hobbies, like make social media posts and and go to work and have a a job.

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But I was Yeah. So, he was like looking at spaces. We looked at all these different spaces and

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I went along for the ride cuz I felt in his energy at that moment. I was like, "Oh, this guy, he's going to do what I

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do all the time." just like do what he wants to do. Interesting.

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Yeah. So, I had to go along with his ride. And part of it is that he knows that I have some experience as being a dentist. And so, at a certain point, I

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was like, why don't we look at Gen 2 offices? Smart. Is that what you ended up with? Mhm. Okay.

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Yeah. So, with that, I felt like really safe with that. I was like, we can do this. Yeah.

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And then he looked to me and I think that he was like, okay, we can do this. Joyce Joyce is like cool with this. Let's let's do it.

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Was that part of it because lower risk profile? You don't have to not as much time to build it out, not as much money to get it up and going. Um, am I is that

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is that why you were more advantageous or was there something else I'm missing?

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I think it it was the money. when we were looking around, it was going to be like 700,000 to a million dollars to

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build out, especially to his taste and a modern office. And I'm like, Byron,

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we're old. Like, we're not like starting our careers. You need to get in there, start making money. So, um, I thought

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second generation, there happened to be one in Huntington Beach, right near our house that was like pretty much built out.

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We didn't have to do very much to it. I say we, but it's really him. Like, this was his project. People are always like, "Oh, are you helping him?" I'm like, "No, it's not my thing.

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This is all him." And I want him to feel proud and have that ownership because he deserves it after working somewhere to support the family for this long.

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Yeah. Okay. Interesting. It's funny that he took the leap later in career like that. But I would tell you I see a lot of doctors come out of that same model

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partnership or ownership track and insert DSO here. Uh and they, you know, more or less get fed up or it's just not

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right for me anymore, whatever. And they have to ease their way out. And they're, we'll call them older in career, if you will. Um I wouldn't dare say old, but that is that you're a husband. You guys

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can say whatever you want. Um but you know, I think that uh that also kind of gives you think of it I think of it like um I don't know. Did you guys before you

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got married, did you date each other for the long long time and then got married?

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Like were you guys high school college sweethearts or anything like that or no?

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You dated so you dated you kissed a few frogs before you found your prince? Is that fair? I guess or maybe one or two, maybe not.

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Anyways, my point being is that at some point you knew this is the one. And so I think the same thing coming out of that corporate relationship model uh where

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you're going, "Hey, I know exactly what I want, but more importantly, I know exactly what I'm not going to put up with anymore." And then you kind of have your kind of line in the sand or your your list of non-negotiables. And then

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that's when you really like I think those startup doctors are are very successful very early because they're just so clear and so focused. Um I think

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that if you start too soon you run the risk of still not knowing what you want. It's like being you know I don't know.

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It's a it's it's kind of like I don't want to say if you get married young it's terrible but I I guess since I didn't get married young and then I'm like oh that's why. But I just find that

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like hey if you know what you really want then great. If you know that at a young age fantastic but odds are most don't. Most don't. And if you haven't been out of dental school for a while and you haven't worked at a few places

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and you may not know what you really like and what you don't like or more importantly like what you're not willing to compromise on anymore.

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Um so I guess I'm saying that to maybe give you a little more confidence. I think he's going to do just great uh and be just fine and not have to just rely on you to support the family. Um you

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know and I I kudos also you know for appreciating that hey uh you know I yes it makes more sense to buy but that just

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there's just crap out there. I see that in most markets, like most major markets like this, it okay, we're being a bit dramatic in calling it crap, but the

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21 minutes, 29 seconds

truth is is that they're all going to be 20 plus year old equipment. It's all going to be dilapidated. It's all going to need a lot of work. And so, you're buying what I think you're really buying

21:36

21 minutes, 36 seconds

is somebody else's bad habits. There are certain ones out there that are very, very good. Um, but I say that there are three types of buyers out there, and you may have heard this before. There's

21:44

21 minutes, 44 seconds

obviously the buyer that's buying for future opportunity, which means I'm buying a practice with patience, and I'm hoping maybe how your practice was when you got it. like, hey, this is going to

21:52

21 minutes, 52 seconds

go up. I can still I can see a path to just make it do better. Efficiencies, processes, maybe new technology. I can see it go. The other one is, hey, I'm

21:59

21 minutes, 59 seconds

buying for historical data. This thing has always done a million dollars. It's always cash flowed. It's always done well. So, highly likely that I'll take over and it's always going to do well.

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22 minutes, 7 seconds

The third buyer, though, is the one you never want to be, which is the desperate buyer. And that's just I got to have something. I'm so sick of my job. I'm so sick of this and that and I can't uh uh

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22 minutes, 16 seconds

and I'll just buy. Give me whatever you got, I'll buy it. And I think that's how a lot of practices get sold, you know, cuz you guys said no. I agree.

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22 minutes, 22 seconds

Yeah. Well, when you said no, you said no for all those reasons, like, hey, I wouldn't put any money into this. Or what was it that was telling you, hey, don't buy?

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22 minutes, 28 seconds

There were certain ones. Okay. There was a little bit of desperation there for a little bit.

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22 minutes, 34 seconds

Fair. Being honest, he did want to get he did want to get his new thing going. And then basically what I was telling him is you are

22:42

22 minutes, 42 seconds

basically buying yourself a new job. Stop it. like take a step back. And even though he

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22 minutes, 50 seconds

kind of knew what he wanted during the process, he still needed to have that exploratory moment. Like there are

22:59

22 minutes, 59 seconds

moments where he starts to dip into, oh, maybe I want to be fee for service or maybe like he sees how I do it. He sees how some of our friends do it and then

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23 minutes, 7 seconds

he like picks their brains and then he's kind of like he has a new idea and he's like maybe I want to do this and not do PO but he he he kind of like I think in

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23 minutes, 15 seconds

the end knew that he wanted to do the whole PO structure. It's what he's used to. He it's something that he knows that he's good at.

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23 minutes, 25 seconds

Um but I just had to let him like have all this these thoughts and and go through the whole process. And it's

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23 minutes, 33 seconds

funny because when I do things, I'm I don't need his like approval or anything. I just do it because I'm fairly confident that I'm going to

23:42

23 minutes, 42 seconds

either make it or not. And him though, he was he's like, "Joyce, you're not you're not supporting

23:50

23 minutes, 50 seconds

me. Like, you're not supportive." And I'm like, "What are you talking about? I'm supportive.

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23 minutes, 55 seconds

I'm supportive." And he's like, "You're not you're not like giving me thumbs up. you're not. I'm like, this is yours. This is yours. You do it.

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24 minutes, 6 seconds

So, I had to learn also being a startup wifey how to be supportive, which he had

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24 minutes, 13 seconds

never needed before in our entire care like our entire marriage. He had never needed me to be to give him support. Um,

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24 minutes, 21 seconds

and then at that moment, he's like, "You need to give me support." I was like, "Okay, I'll do that." Do you think that's because it can be

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24 minutes, 30 seconds

kind of a lonely journey? um doing a startup.

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24 minutes, 33 seconds

You know what would really get to his mind? Like people would message him and say, "Hey, it's so brave of you to leave

24:42

24 minutes, 42 seconds

your job and do a startup when you're so old." And then he I think he was kind of like,

24:50

24 minutes, 50 seconds

"Is it brave of me? Is this a mistake?" Like, yeah, the line between bravery and foolishness.

24:58

24 minutes, 58 seconds

It was like a mind trip. Yeah. And so he would go like back and forth like he'd have he'd be overly confident for a second and then he'd go back and be like, "Am I missing something?" And I

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25 minutes, 6 seconds

think those are the moments where he just need me to be like, "Hey, we got this. We got this." Got it. And so you had to kind of step into that a little bit.

25:14

25 minutes, 14 seconds

Yeah. Which usually I'm like, "It's your problem. I'm going to go do this. You do that." Okay. I want to pull on a thread that

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25 minutes, 21 seconds

you said earlier because today you have, I would say, a pretty established brand online. Fair enough. You obviously have a pretty established practice. um I'll

25:28

25 minutes, 28 seconds

be at two chairs if people know you you probably I mean do you do you feel like you want for patients if you will or you probably have a pretty steady pipeline

25:36

25 minutes, 36 seconds

of folks seeking you out cuz you're it's mostly cosmetic driven right so when did you decide hey this is the route I'm going to go the day you bought it later

25:43

25 minutes, 43 seconds

on in life always knew that no uh when I bought the practice it was a PO practice and then I grew it as such

25:52

25 minutes, 52 seconds

I didn't honestly grow it very hard very well okay and I had no idea that it wasn't growing fast because I didn't really have that

26:00

26 minutes

many like dentist colleague friends that I was connected with that I could compare to. And then also I just I don't

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26 minutes, 8 seconds

think I'm competitive in that way. I'm also in my own bubble in a you know like in

26:18

26 minutes, 18 seconds

my own bubble and I was teaching half the time at USC so I didn't really care I guess. Then when I had the baby is

26:26

26 minutes, 26 seconds

when I left USC and then I was like we're gonna blow up this practice. And then I was like if I'm having this baby,

26:35

26 minutes, 35 seconds

if I'm going back to the practice and I'm leaving teaching, I want to do exactly what I want to do and that's cosmetic dentistry. So then I

26:42

26 minutes, 42 seconds

started dropping all my insuranceances and I was like, well, it's a two-chair practice. What's the worst that could happen? I lose all my patients, which is

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26 minutes, 51 seconds

not how you're supposed to do it. Again, I told you I'm not good at business, but I'm like I weigh the risks and I'm like, I could I can handle this. If all the

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26 minutes, 58 seconds

patients go and I start building my cosmetic practice, that means I have lots of chair space to do cosmetic dentistry. If they ever walk in, I can do that case.

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27 minutes, 7 seconds

Yes.

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27 minutes, 7 seconds

Um, so that's that's when I really buckled down and started building the fee for service cosmetic practice. So, this practice has taken a complete 180.

27:16

27 minutes, 16 seconds

Oh, wow. And did you is that when you really shined a light on Instagram and social to make that part of the transition or were you already doing that?

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27 minutes, 24 seconds

I started Instagram in 2018. Okay.

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27 minutes, 28 seconds

But I didn't really use it as a marketing platform until until I realized that patients

27:35

27 minutes, 35 seconds

come in and I had a few patients that were coming in from the beginning. But it takes time to ramp up your Instagram.

27:41

27 minutes, 41 seconds

Like it doesn't just start working just because you turn it on and post a picture. M you have to have a consistent presence and then the more you do that the more

27:49

27 minutes, 49 seconds

people the more findable you are. And then um yeah at a certain point I was like oh my god this Instagram thing works and that

27:58

27 minutes, 58 seconds

perfectly lined up with me trying to do the cosmetic dentistry thing full time dropping the insurance and I I honestly

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28 minutes, 7 seconds

think if I didn't have that steady stream of patients coming from Instagram I don't know if I would have had the balls to do all the things I did. Okay.

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28 minutes, 14 seconds

Cuz it was a little reckless.

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28 minutes, 17 seconds

Well, you know, you shared um you know, if you go back to your Instagram, it you shared some pretty personal stuff journey about conceiving and other

28:25

28 minutes, 25 seconds

things like are you probably not today, but were you ever worried that like, hey, some of the stuff I share on my Instagram might hurt my ability to be

28:32

28 minutes, 32 seconds

taken seriously as a clinician or anything like that or maybe I overshare my personal stuff or I don't think that's hurt you, but I'm just trying to figure out like at some point you had to

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28 minutes, 39 seconds

make the decision of like, yeah, I'm going to lean into this or lean away from it.

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28 minutes, 44 seconds

I don't mind sharing things that other people consider personal. Okay.

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28 minutes, 49 seconds

To me, what's personal is like if me and Byron get in a fight, I'm not going to talk about that online. That's personal to me.

28:57

28 minutes, 57 seconds

But like um some of the IVF stuff, I don't mind sharing that. I feel like

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29 minutes, 4 seconds

I've been online long enough where those like the people who follow me are people I talk to almost every day. M

29:11

29 minutes, 11 seconds

it's not just that I'm posting and then whoever sees it sees it. I'm constantly like chatting with people in the DMs.

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29 minutes, 18 seconds

Like I have never met them, but I feel like they're my friends. It's a weird parasocial relationship sort of thing, but I feel like I'm talking to my friends.

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29 minutes, 28 seconds

Okay.

29:28

29 minutes, 28 seconds

So, it's just sharing life like you would with your friends. And I fully believe if it's something that you're uncomfortable sharing, then don't do it.

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29 minutes, 36 seconds

Okay?

29:37

29 minutes, 37 seconds

You don't have to share like everything about your life. So I I would have thought that you know there's some part

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29 minutes, 44 seconds

of this that like you obviously it didn't pencil out but I would have thought at some point like oh I don't want to share too much about this cuz then will they take me seriously

29:52

29 minutes, 52 seconds

you know and I figure you know when I talk to a lot of female dentists they're like yes I've had to my whole career overcome some version of like when I walk in the op you're the assistant or

30:00

30 minutes

you're the hygienist and you're like I'm wearing a lab coat but bud and it says doctor here why are you still thinking I'm the assistant hygienist? So I already think that like you have to kind

30:07

30 minutes, 7 seconds

of be that much more if you will because the way the lay public might can perceive you. And so I guess it would you say that's one of your secrets is

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30 minutes, 16 seconds

leaning into that and sharing I don't want to say personal information but like being authentic or and andor did you ever get any like why are you sharing that and you

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30 minutes, 24 seconds

shouldn't share that and you know don't do that.

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30 minutes, 28 seconds

No, I really did struggle with that. I mean when I started in 2018 there were no dentists. I mean, there were a few,

30:35

30 minutes, 35 seconds

but not really what I was doing. And agree. Yeah.

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30 minutes, 39 seconds

I got shhat on a lot by dentists. Like, this girl is just trying to be an influencer or whatever. Um, you do share skincare stuff.

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30 minutes, 48 seconds

I do.

30:48

30 minutes, 48 seconds

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which my wife does that influencer wife, but please keep going. Keep going.

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30 minutes, 53 seconds

But, um, I think I wasn't taken very seriously in the dental community at first, and I still kept doing it.

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31 minutes, 1 second

Again, I do whatever I want. Mhm.

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31 minutes, 3 seconds

Uh when I I think I've always had a very streamlined career where I'm like, you can't make fun of me. I'm fairly

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31 minutes, 12 seconds

accomplished. You can't like say I'm just an influencer. I'm actually a practice owner. I teach at USC. Like what are you coming at me for? Right?

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31 minutes, 20 seconds

You can't do that. I'm not like a fresh chicken. I think that when you're newer and you don't have the confidence in your your career um and your like professional persona, it's harder.

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31 minutes, 33 seconds

But I do think even if I had 10 years of experience and I just started posting on Instagram, it's hard no matter no matter how much credibility you have already.

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31 minutes, 44 seconds

And where I really really felt I really really felt what you're talking about when I had

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31 minutes, 53 seconds

my second I lost still birth. So that time nobody knew until I was ready to share that

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32 minutes, 2 seconds

because everyone just thought I was still pregnant. Wow.

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32 minutes, 4 seconds

And during that time I felt like I didn't that was like probably the most emotional that I I've ever been in my

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32 minutes, 11 seconds

life. I'm not an emotional person in general. Like I don't cry. I'm I'm a firstborn Asian daughter. We don't do

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32 minutes, 19 seconds

that. We're like very practical. We get things done. I don't cry. Okay. Um, but like that was the first time I was like not okay of course

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32 minutes, 27 seconds

and I didn't know how to show up at that time cuz first of all I hadn't shared with with anyone

32:35

32 minutes, 35 seconds

totally and I was like hiding in my house and I was like pretending that I was just completely fine.

32:42

32 minutes, 42 seconds

Um like in the practice too people were like how's your pregnancy going? And I'm like oh it's fine it's great.

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32 minutes, 49 seconds

But because I kept going like it's great. I I would forget that of what what had actually happened and I didn't want people to see me like vulnerable feeling sad and vulnerable.

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33 minutes, 1 second

But what was actually like really therapeutic for me is I I made YouTube videos which sounds crazy

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33 minutes, 9 seconds

but before I had the second I used to vlog all the time and I vlogged that entire thing. I made videos of like of losing the baby.

33:20

33 minutes, 20 seconds

Um how I felt afterwards, how I felt like I had to always overcompensate in my entire life

33:28

33 minutes, 28 seconds

because I didn't want people to think that I was weak or that I couldn't perform as best as my the male

33:36

33 minutes, 36 seconds

colleagues. Cosmetic dentistry when I was getting in was still very male-dominated and I didn't want them to be like, "Oh, you know, she's pregnant

33:44

33 minutes, 44 seconds

or she just lost a baby. I don't want to do my smile makeover with her." So, there was a lot of that that I was aware of where it was harder for me to

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33 minutes, 52 seconds

show up really authentically. But, I just found a way that I felt comfortable with and I got that story out there.

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34 minutes, 3 seconds

And it's not really a marketing move if that's what you're asking. Like I'm not It doesn't sound like it. It doesn't sound like a marketing move.

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34 minutes, 9 seconds

I didn't do it because like I expected patience. I almost felt like it would detract people, but I felt like it was something that I needed to talk about

34:18

34 minutes, 18 seconds

because the more that I talked to people about it, the more I realized it happens to women all the time and nobody talks about it. And so, long story short, I

34:27

34 minutes, 27 seconds

know I just like rambled for a long time, but like long story short, I found that the more I shared, it didn't

34:35

34 minutes, 35 seconds

actually detract from me, it actually humanizes what I do.

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34 minutes, 40 seconds

And people found deeper connection with me.

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34 minutes, 46 seconds

There are maybe some people who maybe didn't want to do their smile makeover with me at the time, and that's okay.

34:53

34 minutes, 53 seconds

It's okay because the people that are there for you are the people are are the strongest like connections that you have and they're going to be there for you like thick and thin.

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35 minutes, 2 seconds

You'll find out who's really there for you, right, when you're going through something like that is kind of where where my head goes.

35:07

35 minutes, 7 seconds

Yeah. And then so I think it helped actually a lot of women. And I think having a greater purpose like

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35 minutes, 14 seconds

that when you share certain things is is a good driver in a way, but you shouldn't just do it because you're trying to help everyone. like you have

35:21

35 minutes, 21 seconds

to do it because it helps you and then it should help other people as like a you know chain effect or whatever.

35:29

35 minutes, 29 seconds

Yeah. Okay. So, so then in that world of of uh Instagram and growth and all that stuff like your your your top three

35:37

35 minutes, 37 seconds

hacks for somebody listening about how to grow on Instagram, what would you say that is? Oh my gosh. Top three hacks.

35:43

35 minutes, 43 seconds

Yeah. If you have to give just three I maybe you could do five if you really had to. Maybe only have one.

35:49

35 minutes, 49 seconds

I can't. I mean, like hacks hacks are just like silly.

35:53

35 minutes, 53 seconds

How about Okay, so then how about your like core principles, your foundations?

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35 minutes, 56 seconds

Hey, these three, four, five things you have to do if you want to do great on social. You have to show up.

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36 minutes, 2 seconds

Okay, you have to show up consistently every day.

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36 minutes, 6 seconds

If you think about it, I know that like dentists, they look at social media and they're like, "Oh my god, this is just like one extra thing I have to do." I'm

36:14

36 minutes, 14 seconds

like, "What are you talking about? This is amazing. It's free. The more that you show up, the more you're findable. The more people see you, the more people

36:23

36 minutes, 23 seconds

remember your face, the more people remember your voice, the more people trust you. So, like social media is a trust building platform. You cannot

36:31

36 minutes, 31 seconds

just come on when you willy willy-nilly feel like it. It's part of your business. So, like for me, if I'm, you

36:40

36 minutes, 40 seconds

know, getting over a cold or something like that, I'm still going to go to work. Mhm.

36:44

36 minutes, 44 seconds

I'm still going to show up on social media if I'm like getting a cold, too. Yeah.

36:50

36 minutes, 50 seconds

Um, you might shut it down if you're going on vacation, but I take I'm I'm going to go on vacation on social media, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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36 minutes, 58 seconds

And part of my brand is actually being consistent because I've never missed a week of posting since 2018. Wow.

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37 minutes, 4 seconds

And I actually post two to three times a week. I post on stories almost every day. Yes. Yes.

37:10

37 minutes, 10 seconds

I never miss stories. So regardless of whether people think I'm stable or unstable because I'm going through something and whether they want to go

37:19

37 minutes, 19 seconds

with me as their doctor, what they actually know is I've been a consistent human being ever since they've known me.

37:28

37 minutes, 28 seconds

Like I there's no major change up.

37:30

37 minutes, 30 seconds

There's no nothing. Like when you ask me what do you want to talk about today?

37:32

37 minutes, 32 seconds

I'm like whatever. I know myself. I whatever is true to me will come out and I don't need to prepare. Like who knows me better than me?

37:40

37 minutes, 40 seconds

Yes. That's true. That's very true. So, you have to be consistent.

37:44

37 minutes, 44 seconds

Okay. Consistency, showing up. I I picked up something there, which is you you do, you know, basically a reframe,

37:52

37 minutes, 52 seconds

if you will. So, instead of looking at social media as a pain in your butt, you look at as as a giant opportunity. And I think that mental shift of like this is

37:59

37 minutes, 59 seconds

can be fun or exciting or free or free marketing or help my business grow or as a part of my business, those are all ways to shift it such that it's not pain

38:07

38 minutes, 7 seconds

of my ass, a burden, an obligation, and all that. And I think a lot of dentists look at uh even when I talk to them like you're not going to make me do dances on TikTok. I'm like no I don't want you to

38:16

38 minutes, 16 seconds

do dances on TikTok but I do want you to be authentic and real and then and actually do it. If you wait until the doors open cuz you're going to then want to shoot your chairs or shoot content

38:24

38 minutes, 24 seconds

when your doors open, you are way too late is what I usually tell them.

38:28

38 minutes, 28 seconds

But so that's what I'm picking up besides consistency and showing up is I think that the the audience should understand you have to reframe that. I would say that that's true for being a

38:36

38 minutes, 36 seconds

business owner. There's a lot of stuff that you can look at and if you look at all those things like oh what a pain in my butt. You better start refraraming that and I don't know if you want to call it lying to yourself for being

38:44

38 minutes, 44 seconds

delusional but there's got to be a little bit of a a something to shift it so that you actually want to go attack it and and be the solution so to speak.

38:52

38 minutes, 52 seconds

Yeah. It's like that that one in Instagram reel where it's like I quit my 9 to5 so I could work 24/7.

38:58

38 minutes, 58 seconds

Yes. Yes. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. But you're happy. You're happy. Okay.

39:02

39 minutes, 2 seconds

It is such a big opportunity. I I've been like screaming this from the rooftops because I don't do any marketing for my practice. It all comes from Instagram and it's free.

39:14

39 minutes, 14 seconds

Before when I bought my practice, I didn't have Instagram. I would have been screwed cuz I I I work in the middle of a neighborhood. But now people find me

39:22

39 minutes, 22 seconds

like they'll travel to me and I just like make silly little videos and just post them.

39:28

39 minutes, 28 seconds

It's crazy. I love it. Okay. And um my husband who did the startup Yeah.

39:34

39 minutes, 34 seconds

I was like, "You need to be on Instagram now." Which this whole time he's my husband. He's been watching me build this Instagram for years and years and

39:41

39 minutes, 41 seconds

years. He hates social media. He was like, he's like, "I'm never going to do it." And then now that he has a startup, he's like, "Joyce." Oh, yeah.

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39 minutes, 50 seconds

How do you do it?

39:53

39 minutes, 53 seconds

Well, and you also are you still teaching folks how to do it? Do you take on some folks that want to learn how to do it or you have content about how to do it better?

40:01

40 minutes, 1 second

No, there was a period of time that I had a course. Okay.

40:05

40 minutes, 5 seconds

Uh for dentists on how to like grow Instagram and things like that. I don't have that anymore. Yeah. It's it was not my passion.

40:13

40 minutes, 13 seconds

Yeah. Fair. That's fair.

40:14

40 minutes, 14 seconds

Yeah. So, but I I actually love helping dentists. I just don't like feeling like their teacher. Yeah.

40:22

40 minutes, 22 seconds

I What was the what's the saying? I'm a I'm not a guru. Like I'm just doing it and you can come along for the ride.

40:32

40 minutes, 32 seconds

Okay. No, that's fair. That's fair. I think it's also challenging um you know when folks ask me about like well what should I do from Instagram or should I hire a company and all that stuff. I

40:41

40 minutes, 41 seconds

finally changed the algorithm and all the stuff so much that if if you were teaching a course on it and then it changed like you might go oh well half this course now is

40:49

40 minutes, 49 seconds

forget this so now we got to go learn this. And you're like you're scrambled as well. I mean, I went to school for marketing. I have a business marketing degree. And when I was in college, I didn't know that.

40:57

40 minutes, 57 seconds

Yeah. Yeah. When I was in college, Facebook was just coming out. That's how old I am. So, you had to still have a college, uh, you know, at.edu, whatever.

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41 minutes, 4 seconds

And then, you know, from the time I entered college, came out when I was going to college in Ohio, uh, freshman year, I think second half of freshman

41:12

41 minutes, 12 seconds

year, it came out. MySpace was there as well at the time. Uh and then you know by the time I finished college and then a maybe gosh maybe one two years later

41:20

41 minutes, 20 seconds

it was like Facebook's a whole totally different thing and all the stuff we learned about marketing in college was like completely on its head cuz everybody was all digital. Everybody was

41:28

41 minutes, 28 seconds

all digital uh and you could track data better and you could do things uh make decisions faster with data which was cool learn how to do that in marketing

41:36

41 minutes, 36 seconds

uh school but the way in which the marketing was it was like oh you can forget all that stuff you know and I think that'll change again as we see AI surge and all those other things coming

41:44

41 minutes, 44 seconds

down the pipeline but like if you were going to go do a startup today or buy a practice today what would you what would you do first in that marketing arena or

41:52

41 minutes, 52 seconds

what would you avoid are there any mistakes of like I want to do this crap over here keep that off to the side social media

41:58

41 minutes, 58 seconds

Okay. Well, fair. But so you would you would brand, you would you would just say announce, you would put yourself out

42:06

42 minutes, 6 seconds

there. This is who I am. Like how would you do that?

42:10

42 minutes, 10 seconds

Um, okay. I'm not a marketing genius. I think you're like technically trained. I have no marketing background. I was just

42:19

42 minutes, 19 seconds

winging it. The only difference between me and everyone else out there is I've been doing it for longer. So, I have more data points of what works and what

42:26

42 minutes, 26 seconds

doesn't work. And I've broken through the the whole like cringess of being on camera and talking to my phone.

42:36

42 minutes, 36 seconds

I'd rather talk to my phone than public speaking. It's so people are always like, "Do you want to come speak?" I'm like, "No, thank you. I'll just do a

42:45

42 minutes, 45 seconds

webinar." Yes. I'll just talk to my phone and talk to my phone every day. I don't want to talk to people. It's fine. Wait, what was the question? Um,

42:53

42 minutes, 53 seconds

so if you were going to do a startup today, what would you do?

42:55

42 minutes, 55 seconds

Yes. So, this is what I told Byron. I'm like, you need to like figure out cuz in every area different things work. Mhm.

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43 minutes, 2 seconds

But you need to have social media because that is going to futureproof your practice because social media is not going anywhere. And if you think

43:11

43 minutes, 11 seconds

that's happening, then you're just like delaying the inevitable. And social media like Instagram may not be the it

43:19

43 minutes, 19 seconds

whatever in a year or two questionably is not right now but you have to start

43:26

43 minutes, 26 seconds

doing it because that like skill of making the videos and putting yourself out there those are all things that take time and that that are not natural. So that's where I would focus a lot on it.

43:35

43 minutes, 35 seconds

So like for Byron's Instagram I didn't help him make his first post. I told him, "If you make your first post like

43:43

43 minutes, 43 seconds

this, it's going to do well." And he was like, "Okay." So, his first post, if you guys go back and watch it, um, is his his handle is Byron the dentist. Yes.

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43 minutes, 53 seconds

Scroll all the way down.

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43 minutes, 54 seconds

It's a video where he's not even talking in it.

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43 minutes, 59 seconds

It's just pictures of him, and I dug him up through my phone. Pictures of him, him telling his story. There's like a story arc saying like, I I've been

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44 minutes, 7 seconds

working for this long as a dentist. Um, I had my daughter. I realized I couldn't do this anymore. Uh, working for

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44 minutes, 15 seconds

somebody else and I decided to start my own practice while my wife was pregnant or something like that. I don't know.

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44 minutes, 21 seconds

There's like a story arc and there's like clips of him crying. And he was like, "Joyce, why did you put the clips of me crying?" I'm like, "Because it's

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44 minutes, 29 seconds

the emotion. People have to connect with you." And and emotionally, this is very effective. Mhm.

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44 minutes, 36 seconds

It did really well. People reached out. They were very moved by his whole story.

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44 minutes, 41 seconds

Again, people were like, "It's so brave of you to do a startup being so old."

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44 minutes, 48 seconds

Uh, but I think a lot of people actually are in jobs that they hate. Mhm.

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44 minutes, 53 seconds

And you're kind of speaking to them like it's never too late to do something that you truly want to do and to to like make that happen for yourself. Even if you

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45 minutes, 1 second

feel trapped, even if you feel like you have so many obligations to do XYZ, you can't. it's never too late to do

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45 minutes, 8 seconds

something else for yourself. And so that story resonated with people and this is all within like a 15 to 20 second Instagram reel.

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45 minutes, 19 seconds

But I knew that would do well because I've been doing this a long time and it did. So fast forward, what's his

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45 minutes, 27 seconds

next thing going to be? What's his next Instagram post going to be? Because everyone's sitting there looking at their phones like, "What am I going to post next?" Like that's the worst part

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45 minutes, 34 seconds

about Instagram is there's always a tomorrow to post and you don't have anything unless you make it. So true.

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45 minutes, 41 seconds

So from there on I I just said this is this is all you now.

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45 minutes, 47 seconds

I I I helped you. You know I helped you. You understand the psychology.

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45 minutes, 54 seconds

I want you to do this now. Like and your next one is not going to do as good and that's okay. But I want you to get in the habit of making these videos because

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46 minutes, 2 seconds

the more you make it, the more the easier it's going to be. And people are like, "Why don't you just make it for him? You're so good at this." I'm like, "I have a practice. I have multiple

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46 minutes, 10 seconds

businesses. I have the kids. Like, I cannot be making also Byron's videos.

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46 minutes, 14 seconds

The man needs to do it himself." Yeah, of course. So, as a business owner then and as a mom and as a wife and all these things, what's the toughest part?

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46 minutes, 24 seconds

Um, the toughest part of being on Instagram? toughest part of being a mom boss, if you will, running your business and also balancing all those things.

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46 minutes, 33 seconds

I think I think most of the time I don't think that it's hard. Okay.

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46 minutes, 41 seconds

Not that it's not. It's just not the way my brain works. Mhm.

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46 minutes, 45 seconds

More recently, I think I feel a little bit more like it's creeping up on me.

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46 minutes, 52 seconds

And so, one of the hard hardest things for me is reaching out for help. And I just hired a personal assistant.

47:00

47 minutes

Oh wow.

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47 minutes, 1 second

So, and the first thing that the personal assistant said to me was, "I work for a lot of families and I know

47:08

47 minutes, 8 seconds

how hard it is to ask for help when you're like doing all the things." And he's like, and she's like, "I'm proud of you." I was like, "Oh, thank you.

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47 minutes, 15 seconds

That's great. That's great.

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47 minutes, 18 seconds

I think it's hard to ask for help." I agree with that for sure. Yeah.

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47 minutes, 22 seconds

Totally agree with that. Um, so then how do you and Byron balance it, right? Like obviously now you're both business owners. Before he kind of had a 9 to5, go consistent, show up, do your thing.

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47 minutes, 32 seconds

He's now about to be working 24/7 if he's not already. And are you guys just finding your groove right now?

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47 minutes, 38 seconds

No, I get mad at him a lot. That's part of it. That's part of it. That's part of it.

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47 minutes, 44 seconds

Like, you know, I my practice is fairly busy. Yeah. Um, and then I have

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47 minutes, 52 seconds

to cut my hours short so that I can come home and do all the things for the kids.

47:59

47 minutes, 59 seconds

Preston, I I told you he's kind of special needs, so he has appointments and things that I take him to.

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48 minutes, 5 seconds

We actually got an Opair, who was so helpful. She's helping us a lot with the baby. If we didn't have her, I don't

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48 minutes, 12 seconds

know what I would be doing. But um even just like with one kid, there's so many things for him to do that I have to make sure he gets to or like I have to get home on time and I make sure I do that.

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48 minutes, 22 seconds

And I've actually been on Byron's case about this. I was like, I know that you're doing a startup and that's like your number one priority right now, but

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48 minutes, 30 seconds

like do you ever think that you have to be home at a certain time? No. I was like, that's the privilege that you have because I'm doing it.

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48 minutes, 38 seconds

Oh my gosh. Too funny. Too funny.

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48 minutes, 40 seconds

Maybe this is why he thinks I'm not supportive. maybe.

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48 minutes, 44 seconds

But I'm like, I know that you're being busy, but I'm busy, too. And that's the hardest thing is like I'm busy, too.

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48 minutes, 51 seconds

Questionably busier, but I manage it.

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48 minutes, 54 seconds

Um, and I'm just like working from my phone 24/7 once I get home.

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48 minutes, 59 seconds

And I think because I've been doing it for longer, I'm able to manage it.

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49 minutes, 6 seconds

And he's still like figuring out how to.

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49 minutes, 10 seconds

So, I give him a little bit of grace, but I also am always like up his ass about like the expectation is that at a certain point you're going to help.

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49 minutes, 19 seconds

It's not just all going to be me. Once you start helping, I can I can be like a a crazy animal and like start building more more things and doing more things.

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49 minutes, 29 seconds

I do feel a little bit held back by motherhood, but I I don't feel like that in a bad way. I feel very blessed that I get to do all the things and still be a

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49 minutes, 38 seconds

mom, but I am ambition-wise, I'm really holding back.

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49 minutes, 42 seconds

Interesting. So, do you have any regrets? No.

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49 minutes, 47 seconds

Great. And what's next? What's next for you?

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49 minutes, 50 seconds

If your if your kids were like, I pretend that they were growing up and could kind of take care of themselves and they wouldn't need you there all all the hours of all the days. What would

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49 minutes, 58 seconds

you be doing? Same but more something totally different?

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50 minutes, 3 seconds

I've really wondered this because if I move my practice to Newport Beach, the rent is higher. And to me, that just means I'm going to have to work longer, harder, for longer.

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50 minutes, 12 seconds

Yeah.

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50 minutes, 13 seconds

Um, and I don't want to I actually I don't know if I've become accustomed to the hours that I work. Like I shorten my

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50 minutes, 20 seconds

hours at work. I eat the cost of having the employees sit there so that I could go do the mom things. But I like doing that. Yeah.

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50 minutes, 28 seconds

So, I don't know if I would work more as a dentist. I probably would work more doing other things or maybe I wouldn't.

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50 minutes, 38 seconds

I like my life. Yeah. The way it is. Yeah.

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50 minutes, 41 seconds

And I like being just busy enough where I feel like I'm going to tip over, but I don't. And then I like that. I love hanging out with the kids.

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50 minutes, 48 seconds

They're like my pride and joy.

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50 minutes, 51 seconds

They're so fun. And every day I wake up in the morning really annoyingly and I'm like, "Byron, these are the best days of our lives cuz they're never going to be

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50 minutes, 58 seconds

this young ever again." And they're such precious moments.

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51 minutes, 1 second

So true. And um yeah, that's my my whole thing is I don't even think about what I'm gonna do tomorrow or no, I do in a

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51 minutes, 9 seconds

year. I feel like everything changes in a year, but like I want to be in the moment and

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51 minutes, 16 seconds

I focus a lot on being there in the moment.

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51 minutes, 20 seconds

I like that. I like that. I often tell doctors cuz they'll come to me, hey what do you do or how would you help me or all these things and and so you know a

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51 minutes, 28 seconds

lot of folks talk about begin with the end in mind and all this stuff and I oftenimes go forget that for a second let's focus on what's the best next step you can take so that we can make everything else easier if there if you

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51 minutes, 37 seconds

were to look around at the landscape of the decision ahead or the goal that you want to have what's the first aka best next step we could take so that way we

51:45

51 minutes, 45 seconds

can we can put you in the best position possible each and every step will kind of compounding our efforts if you will kind of like diet and exercise, you know, you're going to gym and then do this and that and eat right and all

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51 minutes, 53 seconds

these things and then like when you you'll hit your goals that much faster, maybe that much easier and or when you get there, you know, you won't think, oh, I made all these missteps and I made all these mistakes and all that stuff.

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52 minutes, 2 seconds

So, I really like the like combination of living in the moment and combination of like I don't really love a fiveyear plan, 10 year plan. I like the hey, I have a goal that's good and great, but

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52 minutes, 10 seconds

I'm going to try and take the best next step, you know, each and every time. That makes sense.

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52 minutes, 15 seconds

Uh, would you and Byron ever work together? No.

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52 minutes, 19 seconds

I'm just Oh, I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't think I think he's okay with me. Obviously, I would bring all my patients to his practice.

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52 minutes, 27 seconds

Mhm. It's my backup. Okay.

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52 minutes, 31 seconds

Everything else we go, it's my backup. So, like I I actually plan for 5 years. Right now, I love what

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52 minutes, 40 seconds

I do as a dentist clinically and I know that I want to go another five years, but I don't know if I want to go another

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52 minutes, 47 seconds

10 years. And I think if I move my practice and sign a sign a lease or whatever and have a new loan to pay off, that's

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52 minutes, 54 seconds

going to be a 10-year commitment. And that's what's kind of holding me back right now is like, damn, that's a that's another 10 years. And I don't even know what I'm doing next year.

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53 minutes, 5 seconds

Okay. But 10 years, your son will be 15.

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53 minutes, 9 seconds

Ah, right. Wow. Your daughter will be 10 going on 11. But five years, he's 10, she's five.

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53 minutes, 18 seconds

easier to take trips, I guess, at that point. Can throw them on a plane for a little longer, I guess, and do different things. And they're obviously their own individuals. So, yeah, I could see that because then you'd have a Yeah.

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53 minutes, 27 seconds

15year-old, it's a whole another game. And a 10-year-old, a 10-year-old girl.

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53 minutes, 30 seconds

Girls are like so much more advanced than us boys. You know, a 10-year-old girl is like going on 15, 16, if you will. I have a younger sister who's 12

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53 minutes, 38 seconds

years younger than me, so I got to see this in real time, and I remember being like, "Oh my gosh, what what is happening with this little person?" So, I don't worry about Harper. She's She's

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53 minutes, 46 seconds

good. She's going to be a boss boss mom herself.

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53 minutes, 50 seconds

Yeah. Yeah. So, last thing, advice to the the people listening and especially the the female dentists um about going

53:58

53 minutes, 58 seconds

into practice ownership. No regrets there obviously, but what would you tell somebody who's listening who's like, "Well, I want to do it all. I want to have um you know, practice ownership and

54:06

54 minutes, 6 seconds

I want to be a good mom and I want to obviously show up as a wife and I want to do all those things." What is the advice?

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54 minutes, 14 seconds

I don't know. Okay. Well, I don't know anything about what worked for you startup. I'll tell you what worked for me is

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54 minutes, 22 seconds

I obviously I did what I wanted to do, but assess the risk. My rent in my tiny two

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54 minutes, 30 seconds

chair practice is like it was 1,800 at the time.

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54 minutes, 34 seconds

It's now 2,300. And because of those things, I'm able to be way more flexible with what I do

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54 minutes, 41 seconds

with my personal life with taking a hit, taking three months off. Yeah.

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54 minutes, 48 seconds

Most people are slightly overleveraged, I think, and they're not as flexible.

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54 minutes, 55 seconds

So, it all comes in stages. If you're like, if you're going to have kids, sometimes

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55 minutes, 1 second

it's good to have something smaller and kind of, you know, be more flexible on the personal side. In 10 years, I'm

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55 minutes, 10 seconds

going to be a lot more flexible in being able to work.

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55 minutes, 14 seconds

Um, I think I don't really know.

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55 minutes, 18 seconds

Like work more. You might have more to pour in.

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55 minutes, 20 seconds

Yeah. But like it's all stages. And so you just have to make the best decision for the stage that you're at. And what

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55 minutes, 26 seconds

I've also learned is that women are just they'll make it happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. They have the energy.

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55 minutes, 34 seconds

Yes. Yes.

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55 minutes, 36 seconds

Very tired energy, but like they have the energy to make anything happen.

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55 minutes, 41 seconds

We're crazy. We're crazy. I love like I love being a woman in dentistry and and being surrounded by successful women in dentistry.

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55 minutes, 49 seconds

Oh, that reminds me, you know, who who do you surround yourself with? Is it a combination of just people you look up to? Is it people that are all on the same exact stage as you? So, kind of

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55 minutes, 56 seconds

like a hey, we can kind of commiserate together about having newborns and having practices or like who do you look to to kind of get either get more energy

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56 minutes, 4 seconds

off of or get more advice from or that kind of thing?

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56 minutes, 7 seconds

I don't hang out with a lot of people in real life. I don't leave my house very much. I'm an introvert, but I will leave. I've been leaving a lot more because of Byron.

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56 minutes, 17 seconds

Okay. because when he started his startup whole thing, I was like, "Okay, we got to hang out with people who have done startups."

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56 minutes, 25 seconds

Like this is the gift that I can give you is I have a lot of connections. And so, um, we were we hang out with like,

56:33

56 minutes, 33 seconds

do you know Dr. Savat? He's actually like one of my friends. And I was like, you got to hang out with him. And we hang out with Steven. We love Steen.

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56 minutes, 40 seconds

We actually start we were hanging out with him before, too. But, um, he's he's Byron's learned so much from him. Um,

56:47

56 minutes, 47 seconds

one of our friends that we hang out with all the time, they're both practice owners and, um, Ron Fam, he did a

56:55

56 minutes, 55 seconds

startup and then his wife did Preston's pal expander and so she's also a practice owner. So, I'm more like her.

57:04

57 minutes, 4 seconds

Yeah.

57:04

57 minutes, 4 seconds

We we kind of do like bougie niche dentistry. Yeah.

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57 minutes, 8 seconds

And feif for service and and those two are like two peas in a pod, but it's great to hang out with people who are like just slightly ahead of you. Yeah.

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57 minutes, 17 seconds

And also way ahead of you.

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57 minutes, 19 seconds

Yeah. Yeah. So like attracts like. But then you guys also made a conscious decision to say, "Hey, let's start hanging out with these people that are already where we want to be." Very cool.

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57 minutes, 27 seconds

I always tell Byron like I don't want to hang out with people who are who are like aimless in life. Like I I'm very intentional about who I hang out with

57:36

57 minutes, 36 seconds

and they have to be they have to have it together or like not necessarily be like successful yet, but have that

57:43

57 minutes, 43 seconds

personality where nothing's going to stop them. Yeah. Love that. Uh, where can we find you? On Instagram, Joyce the dentist.

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57 minutes, 51 seconds

Joyce the dentist. Anywhere else? Tik Tok. YouTube.

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57 minutes, 54 seconds

Is it Joyce the dentist on Tik Tok as well? Yeah. Oh, everything's Joyce the dentist. I have so many platforms.

57:59

57 minutes, 59 seconds

Yeah. Yeah. What since since you brought it up, like do you find that one's trending better than the other? Is Tik Tok really going to be some amazing

58:07

58 minutes, 7 seconds

super awesome thing? Is it something that we're overlooking? Is it just you got to do you got to do it across all platforms all the time? I post on Tik Tok every day.

58:17

58 minutes, 17 seconds

Okay. Are you dancing on it? Very casual. Okay. Very casual.

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58 minutes, 21 seconds

It's just I just put up my phone and I start talking. Okay.

58:24

58 minutes, 24 seconds

It's practice for me to talk to the to the phone. But also way less like you know how Instagram it's so

58:33

58 minutes, 33 seconds

it's so rigid in there. Like you have to have it polished and stuff. Tik Tok you don't have to do that. So um and Tik Tok the algorithm is different. So I can

58:42

58 minutes, 42 seconds

talk to a dental audience or I could talk to a public regular you know audience and the algorithm will find the

58:50

58 minutes, 50 seconds

audience. It's not so confused by the audience. Whereas Instagram like you were saying I had a course.

58:57

58 minutes, 57 seconds

I didn't even promote it on my Instagram because I didn't want to confuse the algorithm. The algorithm is meant to show my videos to people who are looking

59:04

59 minutes, 4 seconds

you know not dentists to for my services in this nearby area. um which you can't target necessarily, but it's supposed to

59:12

59 minutes, 12 seconds

show my stuff to non-dentists. If I start making dental content, then it's going to go to dentists. So, you have to decide on Instagram, Tik Tok, I feel

59:20

59 minutes, 20 seconds

like the audience, you don't have to decide as much.

59:23

59 minutes, 23 seconds

Um I have the most amount of followers on YouTube, but the types of patients that come in from YouTube are very, very different.

59:32

59 minutes, 32 seconds

Um so, YouTube very well educated. They've researched a lot. they already bought into you

59:39

59 minutes, 39 seconds

because you've put out all this educational content and the the amount of time that they've spent binging your content is so much longer because they're long form videos.

59:48

59 minutes, 48 seconds

The patients that come in from Tik Tok, Tik Tok's like I love Tik Tok because that's where you get people who see you.

59:56

59 minutes, 56 seconds

Mhm.

59:57

59 minutes, 57 seconds

And so if I go to a restaurant in the area, people will recognize me from Tik Tok. Oh, okay.

1:00:02

1 hour, 2 seconds

Even though I'm just like a local dentist, they're like, "Oh, that's what he's a dentist." And it's crazy. It's still Byron's always surprised by it

1:00:09

1 hour, 9 seconds

when people recognize me, but it's from Tik Tok.

1:00:13

1 hour, 13 seconds

Instagram is where I have the tightest community like ride or die sort of community and that's because of the way

1:00:21

1 hour, 21 seconds

the platform is built. So each one does something different.

1:00:24

1 hour, 24 seconds

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Well, thank you for giving us that insight. That's a marketing course in and of itself that I did not get in marketing school. Uh we'll find you on all social platforms

1:00:32

1 hour, 32 seconds

at Joyce the dentist. Thank you so much for being here. That is a wrap. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.