Torch Talk
Torch Talk is the podcast for bold local leaders.
Each week, we sit down with entrepreneurs, experts, and change makers to talk strategy, leadership, marketing, and what it really takes to grow a business today. Honest insights. No fluff. Real stories.
Torch Talk
The People Side of Growth
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In this episode of Torch Talk, Lindsey Chupp sits down with Rachel Summers, COO of Fierce Creative Solutions, for an honest conversation about leadership, growth, hiring, and what it takes to build a strong team.
Drawing from her experience helping grow Fierce over the last four years, Rachel shares lessons learned from navigating rapid growth, developing company culture, and building systems that support both employees and clients.
The conversation explores everything from hiring and team development to career transitions and personal growth. Lindsey and Rachel also discuss what today's workforce needs, what employers are really looking for, and why attitude and coachability often matter more than technical skills.
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
• Lessons learned through rapid business growth
• What makes a strong team culture
• Why attitude matters more than skill
• How Fierce approaches hiring and development
• The importance of coachability and communication
• Advice for professionals feeling stuck in their careers
• Why growth requires discomfort and hard work
This episode offers a practical look at leadership and team development, especially for business owners, managers, and professionals looking to grow, build stronger teams, and navigate change with confidence.
One thing that I also love about Fierce is that with all of that hard work and building, everybody who's a part of our team is a part of the build. So when we have a problem and we need to change a process, like it's the expert in the department that gets to be a voice for that. And that that ownership that comes with that and building the team's confidence with making some being a part of those decisions, that's what's like, mmm. I love it.
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to Torch Talk, the show where we spotlight bold leaders growing their businesses and communities with grit and purpose. Today's conversation is a special one for me because I'm joined by one of my longtime friends, Rachel Summers, COO of Fierce Creative Solutions. Rachel and I have known each other for more than 20 years, and I've had the opportunity to watch her grow into an incredible leader who's passionate about people, team development, and helping businesses grow with purpose. In today's Torch Talk, we're going to dive into leadership, growing teams, navigating rapid growth, adapting through challenges, and some of the biggest lessons learned along the way. We'll also talk about what today's workforce needs most and what Rachel wishes every job seeker understood entering the workplace. Welcome to Torch Talk, Rachel. Thank you. So excited to finally have my bestie on the show.
SPEAKER_01I am excited to be here. I am nervous because I'm not, I like to be on the other side of the camera, not in front of the camera, but always happy to have a conversation with you.
SPEAKER_00Transparently, you have probably watched more of the Torch Talks after they're done than I have.
SPEAKER_01I've watched plenty of them. Yep.
SPEAKER_00We are always two sides of the coin. So you're internal, I'm external. You're managing operations, I'm managing sales. So we can talk a little bit about what that's like. Um, so whenever I read the intro, you said we've actually known each other for more than 20 years.
SPEAKER_01Close to 30. A little bit depressing to say out loud. We did go to elementary school together, so yeah, long time.
SPEAKER_00And we're officially well into our 40s. So well into I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I am well into is a little much.
SPEAKER_00We are into we are into our 40s. So we have a long history that sometimes uh is really great. We work together, we've worked together for four years now. Um, so it presents its own challenges.
SPEAKER_01Within the team, too, when we are having a very um, I wouldn't say a very heated conversation, but when we are sharpening one another in a meeting and some of our team members walk in and they're like, ooh, ooh.
SPEAKER_00Our brainstorming sounds like fighting.
SPEAKER_01It does, it does. And usually I'm up like pacing around, like moving my arms around everywhere and very animated. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you joined Fierce four years ago. Um, you did not have a history or a background in marketing at all. You came from the healthcare industry. So I know you tell people all the time it took you a while to feel comfortable. What was that kind of like looking back now over the last four years? Describe what that was like, like really jumping, making a huge industry shift.
SPEAKER_01Well, one, if I would have known how hard it would have been, I don't know that I would have been brave enough to do it if I would have been able to see how much growing that I would have to do because growth is not glamorous, it's really gritty and hard, and you have to do a lot of self-reflection and um yeah, so coming from healthcare, which is what I have done like my I would say my whole life with having a sister with disabilities, especially. But healthcare your whole life, and then getting into marketing, I did not know what anything meant. I had in conversation the language, I didn't understand the language. When I first started, I had a notebook and a pen, I carried it around, I wrote down words that I didn't I would have to look them up later because it wouldn't have been appropriate to ask in the meeting, like, what is SEO? What does this mean? So a ton of growth, and then fierce is just always moving, marketing is always moving. So once you learn something, it changes. And that I guess that's a little bit comforting too, because with AI and all of the movement that's happening in the world, period. I don't know that anybody is an expert expert right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there are a lot of changes and adaptations. I was at Wayne Dale today for the career center, and when I was describing what we do, I said to all because it was third through fifth graders, I was saying, all of this by the time you graduate is probably going to be a hundred percent different because of the introduction of AI and how fast it feels like everything is moving out there right now.
SPEAKER_01Well, and we've seen um graduates that we are their first job coming right out of college, and they graduate with a marketing degree, and they have a lot of learning to do.
SPEAKER_00The marketing degrees are very generalized. So they only it's like my degrees in business administration, it's like a little bit of everything, and I feel like marketing degrees are kind of like that too, and half the time they don't even know a hundred percent what they want to do with that. Um, they generally have like maybe a creative interest or uh, you know, some they're leaning towards something, but they don't necessarily have a hundred percent like clear idea exactly what they want to do.
SPEAKER_01And then all of the other like I mean, we've interviewed journalists, PR like majors and different things that there's quite a bit of overlap with everything.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's very true. Okay, so you started on the administration side of Fierce Grave Solutions, so you were managing like finances, HR benefits, and we saw, I saw uh like a natural ability in you to help manage processes and operations. You love like a good process.
SPEAKER_01I love a good black and white, clear process. I hate a good black and white to my ears, baby. Let's go.
SPEAKER_00I would say I do, I like to help create processes and I hate to follow them.
SPEAKER_01You are you can look in a mess and see the path quickly. That's a super power of yours. You look at a mess and like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So, I mean, working together with you, I've learned so much. How many times have we just like battled it out over a problem and yeah, solved it then?
SPEAKER_00It is really fun to do that part where I I think I just said to you recently, like we're we're really both bringing um strength, so we need to make sure that we're always working together on something because you're bringing perspective that I need, and vice versa. And that's where I think we're kind of have like our superpower when we lean into that together, we're going to solve the problem faster, we're going to help the person sooner, we're gonna get a better result for the client, you know, all of those types of things.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think that we've learned in the four years like consistency is really important. We do move a lot and we can't be so rigid that we um we'll just be like stuck in a problem and um not want to pivot. But where you're really good at helping build out processes too, that like the same thing, that structure, the consistency, the and just being reliable, okay, this is how we do it, let's stick to this, let's stick to this. Like that's where now and Fierce Fierce's fifth anniversary is right around the corner. And it that is wild to me. Because we were walking on the trails and when you were building Fierce, before I was a part of Fierce, I got to hear all of the like the all of the things about creating a business, yes, and building a business and the challenges that come with that and seeing I feel like you didn't even come up for air. Like maybe even just now you're starting to come up from air because for air. Because I mean all the long hours, all the hard work that you put into, it's I would say that's true.
SPEAKER_00Like it feels like we have scaled the team now and built the operations and the systems in place to feel like we we have the right people. Um, we've really learned a lot about hiring. We've learned a lot about the right fit for fierce, looking at our mission, vision, and values and how do we utilize our core values. You were a um an integral part of implementing core values as a part of our annual performance reviews. When I describe that to other business owners, like our process, they're usually pretty wowed by that. I don't and we're young. We're very young.
SPEAKER_01That's that is really exciting. Yeah. It's I mean, we've we've built something great and something I'm like, I'm really proud of it too. And I hope I know that you are proud of it too. But seeing your growth as being like your best friend and somebody that's known you since elementary school, seeing the commitment, like the dedication, the hard work that you've put in, the time, my goodness, the time, the sacrifice, like that has really been inspiring to see. And one thing that I also love about Fierce is that with all of that hard work and building, everybody who's a part of our team is a part of the build. So when we have a problem and we need to change a process, like it's the expert in the department that gets to be a voice for that. And that that ownership that comes with that and building the team's confidence with making some being a part of those decisions, that's what's like, mmm, I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_00When we're interviewing somebody, we talk a lot about the changes, but this is a good place for somebody if you want to have influence over what yeah, like if you want your voice to matter and you want to be able to help shape and build something, this is the perfect place for you. If you want stability and you want to work for that company who's been around for 150 years and you like a calmer, steadier pace, this is probably not the best.
SPEAKER_01This is your nightmare, actually. If you want to just be told what to do and do it and put in your eight hours and walk away and that's it, we're not. We're not it. We are definitely not it. And that's okay. Like, that's another thing, like with the hiring process, there are great people out there that just aren't a good fit for fierce. And it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with fierce, it doesn't mean that anything is wrong with that individual, that candidate. It's just not a good fit because we are very unique, I I feel.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk a little bit about our hiring process while we're there. So tell us what tell me what the steps are. Tell the audience, tell the listeners.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. So, and this has also been a huge work in progress. We have learned so much through coaching and then um problem solving, getting ourselves into messes and then getting ourselves out of messes. So, um what we start, I mean, we usually post um the job listing on Indeed and on our social media. We like to get it uh word of mouth out there. So everybody who knows everybody, like spread the word, we need a SEO specialist or whatever the position may be. We review um the resumes that come in, and if you are, we say all the time, if you are applying for a creative role, your resume should reflect it. So if you send me a drab resume and it's for a creative role, I'm probably not gonna give you a call because I want it has to stick out. It has to, I mean, remember the one girl that I called and she had applied to a hundred places and she didn't even she knew nothing about fear. She knew I it was just it was a huge waste of time that call. But it has to stand out because we do get a lot of applicants and a lot of people are looking for jobs.
SPEAKER_00It's too easy to make a resume that looks good. Everybody can use Canva. There's a free version of Canva. You can go, you know. We used to have to make the resumes in Word, and we were really restricted by the layouts, and that and it was so hard to fit all that information on there. That is not a restriction that is there anymore. We also see a lot of people who imply on Indeed and use the Indeed resume. No tip, I will never call you. We are not, especially at a marketing agency. It does not matter what role you are, if you're using just the Indeed at resume, then we're not even considering you as a candidate. Um, it's too easy to stand out now. And so pro tip, make your resume look pretty.
SPEAKER_01And then um I'll if I'm interested in the resume, if I like what I see, then I will do a phone interview, and that's uh just pretty basic questions, but I understand seeing what your skill level is at a very high level, if it would be a good fit for Fierce, because it is so important that we bring somebody on that is a very good fit for our team. And then we would do an in-person interview. Usually that I mean it's sometimes with you and I, sometimes with um Julia and I, or individuals that would be in that department. So we'll do an in-person interview, and then if we like what we see there, we will do a disc assessment, and now we're utilizing the working genius as well.
SPEAKER_00I love we love both of those assessments. We don't pigeonhole anybody into a role or not based off of the results, but it helps us get a little bit of insight into their personality, how they might best fit into the role that they're applying for.
SPEAKER_01Never a deal breaker, but always a tool.
SPEAKER_00Correct. We love to utilize that as a team, and when we use that in the interview process, it puts them in the the team wheel as well, so we can see how they fit with the people that are gonna be working with them directly in their department and just the team as a whole.
SPEAKER_01Right. So then after those assessments come in, we review the results, then we will do a exercise so we can understand the individual's skill level in the department that they're gonna be working in. After that, oftentimes there's some back and forth with the exercise, some feedback given because feedback is a huge part of the fierce culture. And we want to understand how that person takes feedback and then how how, excuse me, how they also follow direction. Super important in Fierce and really in marketing, I would say in general. And then after all of that, we'll do a second interview. After the second interview, we usually have a pretty good feel. Now, with different departments, also, like, do you want to explain how the CRM's department works when we're hiring?
SPEAKER_00You mean how well, so the exercise for the CRMs is a little bit dialogue. So we bring them to a meeting. That has been a really hard role to fill because um we work with our clients so so much differently than I feel like they're used to experiencing when it comes to an agency. We view ourselves as a partnership, and so our monthly meetings um can be a little lively, kind of like me and you. So we go out, you know, we have some clients we've worked with for four and five years, and so we have a really established relationship, which means we feel like we're a part of the team, which means that we're going to give them a lot of pushback, feedback, and like kind of like we're gonna drive the marketing strategy when it comes to filling the CRM role. We have found it is very helpful to bring them along to a client meeting. Uh, we just recently went went through this process, and all of the clients we went to behaved super well. So we're looking at a real picture. They're almost like, oh, I'm being monitored, like we're gonna just be on our best behavior. But it it's helpful just for them. Um, at both of, you know, at both of the meetings that we took somebody out a candidate out on, we were going through the analytics, so they got to see the depth that we're going on the strategy and the types of things that we're gonna be reviewing with them. So it was helpful for them to actually see what a meeting, leading a meeting might actually look like.
SPEAKER_01So we say often in the interview process at Fierce, I say this all the time, like I never want anyone to leave a job that they're comfortable in. They could be in that position for five years, and it might not be, they might not be totally thriving, they might not love what they do, but they're content enough to come into fierce and be totally overwhelmed, it's way too much, it's too fast, and then be unhappy. Yeah, so painting that clear picture of what working for us actually looks like is always the goal and being very transparent. We have come a long way, uh, but we're far from perfect, and uh we we try to serve our team really well and our clients really well, but like I said earlier, sometimes it is just not a good fit, and we want to really figure that out sooner than later.
SPEAKER_00And we have found when we don't f follow the hiring process, that's where a lot of our mistakes come in. So it's a slow process, it probably takes like six six to eight weeks to go through the whole process from start to finish. We actually set that expectation up front so that somebody knows if they're looking for a job in two weeks, this it's not gonna go that fast here. Um, but we want to take the time to get to know them, we want them to get to know us, see what that looks like, so that like you said, we take the decision pretty seriously, both for us and for them.
SPEAKER_01We don't Yeah, we're looking out for them too. But our team, the team that we have is so important that I mean we've been in situations where the wrong fit has really affected the culture. Yes, and we want to make sure that whoever we're bringing in is like right values, right mindset.
SPEAKER_00There's a there's alignment there between fierce and the person, correct? Looking back over the last five years since we're nearing the five-year anniversary, I guess are there any um like big lessons that you think about? Like per it could be personally or for fierce, like is there any big standout like points or pivots that you could think of?
SPEAKER_01A good culture just doesn't happen by accident. It takes a lot of work and intention. I would say that because of our rapid growth, it uh rapid growth it it really identifies weaknesses fast in than having to figure out how to adapt and move.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, business experts would say growing too quickly can put a business out out of business. So that could be from an operational perspective, you just can't handle the work that's coming in.
SPEAKER_01And um I was in an interview earlier today, and I I had mentioned how it is a fine balance of the correct capacity, the correct workload with what our team can handle. So we might not have enough work for two specialists, but we have too much for one. And working through that can be challenging because we want to avoid burnout. We don't want people that we have trained and and invested a lot of like time and energy into and that we truly care about. We don't want them to quit because they feel overwhelmed and unappreciated and frustrated. So finding that balance and yeah, our the rapid growth that has been pretty challenging to manage. And you and I, I mean, we've had plenty of conversations where you're like, sell, sell, let's go, let's go, let's go. And I want this service, and maybe we could add this service, and let's try this and that. And I'm like, hey, like pump the brakes, like let's do what we have really, really well, and then slowly build off of that. So it's the yin and yang. We do a good job balancing that out together, but we I mean I've given you some crazy eyes for sure. Oh, this is the first girl.
SPEAKER_00I think we're just now reaching the point where I'm like, I'm gonna go sell still. Like, I think that we have the team here. So, you know, managing the capacity has always been a big issue for me when I was in banking. Like, that is a culture and environment pretty consistently where they're willing to max everybody out, like minim minimal staffing. Healthcare is the same way. Yeah, you're always working under staffing. So that was always a big deal. Like, I want to make sure that people don't feel what you're saying, which is burnout. But I think sometimes we almost made a mistake of overstaffing certain departments and not stretching capacity to the point. Now that we feel like we have good systems and processes, I think that's kind of like the next level of where we're at is how do we maximize capacity while balancing the, you know, not overworking somebody, but also how can we be more efficient? Are we doing the best strategy? What tools are out there that we can increase efficiency with?
SPEAKER_01Well, like I said, with that rapid growth, how it um identifies weaknesses fast, like how many overhauls have we had? We've done social media overhaul, where now I mean the process is like is I mean, we got it nailed down. Clean, it's beautiful. Um, we've done project management, it's clean, it's beautiful. And I mean, we're changing some different things with SEO now, but I mean, it's it's really it's good if it doesn't drown you, if it doesn't take you out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We've talked a lot about hiring. When it comes to reviewing candidates, interviewing, what are some of the qualities that really stand out to you besides a good looking resume? We fully covered that. When we're going through the processes, what qualities are we looking forward to know that they're a good fit on the fears team?
SPEAKER_01So, number one, like off off the bat, attitude matters over skill level and coachability. If you can Be if I can coach you, if um an expert in that department can coach you, if you're willing to learn, then how you come, like it's not as much of an issue. But your willingness to learn, your attitude, staying positive, it number one to me. I love and I also love seeing like gritty, gritty jobs on a resume where they're hard. Um, like Vince is a perfect example. He was painting and doing like all kinds of like gritty hard work, and I actually love to see that. It wouldn't be something that I would shy away from putting on your resume, even if it's unrelated to the industry that you're trying to get into. Put the gritty work on there because it just it tells me something about your work ethic. I love that. And then I would say, and let me shout this from the rooftops like soft skills matter, soft skills, communication, adaptability, um, time management, organization, confidence, shaking a hand confidently, being able to have a conversation with somebody and not like losing your crap. It really does matter.
SPEAKER_00It makes, yeah, it really makes a big difference because our team interacts a lot with our clients directly. We need to have good interpersonal communication.
SPEAKER_01Internally, too. We are so collaborative. So collaborative.
SPEAKER_00If somebody is listening to this and they feel stuck professionally, or maybe it's a new college student who's getting ready to graduate or has graduated, is looking for a job. What is some advice that you would give them for the next steps?
SPEAKER_01One, be brave enough to just go for it.
SPEAKER_00You'll learn as you sometimes not knowing is better than knowing, like you said.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, just go for it. I can't believe what I do now. It is kind of shocking to me. It is, and I learn so much every single day. I learn so much from the team. I mean, I laugh really hard at least once a day. Um there are plenty of challenges that come along with it, and we we hit on that. Like anything worth doing is gonna have challenges that come along. But the team is great. I love it, so just be brave enough to go for it. And then also, if you're feeling stuck, are you really stuck, or do you just need to like step back, take a breath, and like grind? Movement will get you out unstuck. So just do something. Figure out the next step, whether it's a very small step, but just move, do something and be willing to work really, really hard.
SPEAKER_00If you're not going forward, you're going backwards. Exactly. It's just a teeny tiny step. It's learning something about the industry, about the role, about the company you might be interested in.
SPEAKER_01And how many free resources are there for marketing, especially? Tons. I mean, so much. Even if you just get on YouTube, you can learn so much.
SPEAKER_00YouTube, HubSpot puts out tons of free courses so you can learn a little bit. I don't know that it really gives the full picture, but it's enough to say, oh, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01Webflow, remember why I took Webflow's course when I first started, of just so I could have a conversation with a web developer. I mean, yeah, so much out there.
SPEAKER_00Continually growing is one of our core values, and we that is my favorite.
SPEAKER_01My favorite.
SPEAKER_00We really mean it. Yeah. Like we're not kidding when we say that you have to continually be growing and learning around here. Okay, so in summary, any final closing thoughts that you'd want to share with the people who are listening? Uh, get off your butts and work really hard and have a good time doing it. Thank you so much for joining me today. It was a pleasure having you on. Hopefully, I can convince you to do it again in not too long of a time. I always enjoy our conversations and I can't wait for everybody to listen.
SPEAKER_01I loved it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for tuning into Torch Talk. If today's story inspired something in you, share it with a future change maker, colleague, or friend. Until next time, stay inspired, stay intentional, and keep your fire free.