Beyond Compliance: Is AI the Future of Workplace Accessibility? (w/ Hector Minto)

Ever felt like workplace accessibility is just another box to tick? Think again. It's the secret sauce to innovation, inclusion, and business success. But how do you go beyond the bare minimum to build a workplace that truly works for everyone?

In this episode, we chat with Hector Minto, Microsoft's Global Director of Commercial Accessibility, about the real deal on accessibility. We get into how generative AI is a game-changer for neurodiversity, the massive business perks of a diverse team, and the legal stuff every organisation needs to know. Hector shares how partners, like Transparity, are crucial in turning accessibility from a goal into a reality.

Tune in to discover how to build a workplace where technology works for everyone.

Today's guest 

Hector Minto, Global Director of Commercial Accessibility at Microsoft

Hosted by

Susannah Jeffery, Transparity

The Transparity Transform Podcast brings together thought leaders from across the UK's technology sector to discuss the industry and nation's hottest topics.

Brought to you by Transparity, the UK's most accredited pureplay Microsoft partner. Find out more about who we are and what we do, at www.transparity.com 

Transcript

0:00

Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today to talk about all things accessibility and why it is such a fundamental importance step for all organisations to consider in becoming the best possible business they can be and in meeting their objectives. Today I'm joined by Hector Minto, Microsoft's global director of commercial accessibility. Hector, thank you for joining us. And please tell me a bit more about yourself and what you do. Yeah, well, firstly, it's great to be back with Transparity. When I joined Microsoft nine years ago, it's one of the first companies who kind of saw that this was a commercial conversation. And essentially that's what I do. I'm working with governments, enterprise customers, disability community around the world and our sales teams around the world with partners to drive more conversations about disability, cultura, you know, what it means to be somebody with a disability in the workplace or as customer, and then accessibility, which is the deliverable. So making sure that we're building technology that just works for people with disabilities. So across the globe, we have an amazing group of Microsoft employees essentially taking this topic on as part of what they do and driving that local conversation. So why does accessibility matter so much within the workplace? Yeah, the demographics are there for all to see. You know, when I started, 1 in 6 people with a disability is what we kind of talked about. Now we talk 1 in 5, 1 in 4 sometimes, because we've added neurodiversity and mental health, it’s kind of really big conversations right now across society. But essentially the demographics suggest, there are a lot of people with disabilities, either disability that people are born with or they’ve acquired during their lifetime. And when we think about tech, if you can't use it, it's not much use. And so accessibility as a deliverable is really kind of one of those topics that's going to only grow in importance. The more that we are expecting people to use a digital experience as opposed to an in-person experience. When we think about across the industries, it’s going to be incredibly important that we don't just exclude this huge population that's out there. So over the years, how have you seen, accessibility in terms of how technology can support it? How have you seen that grow and evolve? It is the question. So, like I started this 30 years ago, it was, you know, it was niche. I think that's the only way to describe it. You know, in fact, we weren't even using computers back then. That was about people reading the newspapers or controlling their homes or accessing their television or their lights. So the conversation was all about independent living, really. Now we live with our tech, right? So the conversation has moved from being very user centred. You know, so it's been kind of we have this person with a disability. How do they access this thing? And now it's become more systemic. So we're looking at industries, the banks, the hospitals, the education establishments, the government services. The more the technology becomes the kind of the lead experience. That's really the big change. So it's moving from being kind of a niche, bespoke experience to being more the one that has to be built in en-masse for organisations. And can you give me some examples of how it's evolved from the early days, then? You talked about people being able to access basic services, turn on their television, for example. What are we looking at as that has evolved over the years and how that's changed? Yeah. So first things first, when it started, it was about how does this person who cannot do this thing having some a piece of assistive tech that does it. Now we're talking about the built infrastructure being more accessible. So if we think about, say, somebody who's blind, they will use a screen reader, which means they will listen to text content rather than see it. Okay. So the technology that they have, they will get that they will get the technology in front of them. But when they actually start to interface with an experience, they're banking that, you know, the lectures, whatever it might be, that you know, their content that also has to be built accessible. And that's not their responsibility. That becomes the responsibility of society. And why do you think that now more than ever, employers and businesses are looking to build that in? Because of course that is an investment isn't it? And it's not just about the fact that they may have to comply with certain regulations. What do you think the driver is here? Yeah. People is the straight answer. The conversation's getting louder. You know, there's no getting away from it. You know, if we look across all of the major companies that I've worked with in the last nine years, they've got their employee resource groups. They're having a conversation about what it means to be a person with a disability working in that organisation. And they are looking at it and thinking, well, how do we support our employees, both as groups, as employee resource groups? But then that's reaching management where they're seeing we have legal requirements to make sure that we're offering equality within the workplace. And then, they also want to make sure they're not locking out people with disabilities from joining their companies and their organisations. Governments have a very specific challenge. So the disability employment gap, wherever we can see it globally, it's like double for all people with disabilities. So if you have a disability, you're twice as likely to be unemployed wherever we sort of see this information. And so governments are starting to put some pressure back on companies and employers, particularly major employers, to start looking at their representation, either through quotas, or, things like disability pay gaps. That's one of those kind of new conversations that's really starting to evolve. But the answer to your question is the lived experience of people with disabilities inside organisations; they're just getting more deliberate. I mean, it's not even kind of a it's not a tense conversation. It's just people are more... certainly this generation coming through are way more likely to have a conversation about their disability. You know, I'm 50 now or 51. And I think, you know, people would hide their disabilities. Yeah. But people who were deaf in the workplace, they just wouldn't talk about it. People with limb amputations would cover their limb amputation. Yeah. Now, you know this. You sort of see people around the UK now, you’ve got people walk around with, you know, amputated limbs on full display. People are colouring in their cochlear implants as fashion aids. Yes. So the conversation's getting louder, more confident. And when that happens, it just becomes more obvious that, you know, if you're having that conversation inside an organisation, let's let's do something. And to put it bluntly, Microsoft technology plays a critical role here. You know, if you cannot access Teams, Office, you know, whatever it might be, you know, you're SharePoint. If you can't access these systems, then it's much harder for you to work in that organisation. So you can have the cultural demand, that’s sort of saying, hey, we need people with disabilities working this organisation, but then you have the technical deliverable of building things accessible. I couldn't agree with you more because I remember the 2012 Olympics, and when we advertise the Paralympics and the way in which they did it, it made all of those Paralympians look like superheroes. You know, because the way in which prosthetics now, you know, look and feel, you’re right, people are proud. They have no reason to hide or they're like under a bush or something. People talk to me about the legacy. Like whenever you do games. I mean, we're working with the Paralympic Committee right now. I think, you know, I'm getting ready for Italy for the winter version. And they will always talk about legacy. Yeah. And I always say, like London, the legacy was absolutely pride. You know, it was definitely like this became a kind of a moment where it wasn't, you know, you didn't have to hide disability. We saw programmes like The Last Leg. It’s on Channel 4 on a Friday night, that's still going! It's 2025. It’s still here. Right. But but it's because there was this cultural moment where it was like, we're going to talk about this topic. We're not going to run away from it. The superhero thing didn't, you know, didn't land with everybody because as I say, my generation, that kind of went, oh, do we feel like this is superhero? You know, because there are elements of being disabled that are still, you know, grotty. You know, it's like the experience can be difficult. You know, you are excluded from things. Taxis will refuse guide dogs still in 2025. Right. You know, so you know the optimism is great, the deliverable still has to happen. And so I would argue we're now getting to a point where it's like we're looking back on things like 2012 and saying, yeah, we've got the pride now. But but there's still the work that has to be done. You can't get away with just saying, oh, we're super proud. You know, we're going to wear the lanyard. You now have to also say, well, we've got to build systems to be accessible. One of the biggest legacies of London, particularly on the 2012, is the city is much more accessible. You know, like across the space, you know. You want to get on the Elizabeth line and get, you know, from here to Canary Wharf now. It is beautifully accessible all the way. Actually, and with people in the stations ready to support you, with confidence, you know, not as a kind of a queuing up to meet the disability meet-and-greet in the station, you know, honestly, it was awful in previous generations. And I'm not saying it's perfect now but it's just more confident now. It's more kind of matter of fact, which is kind of, you know, the way it should be. So we talk about, the fact that obviously businesses are embracing with more positivity and happiness, but there is still the law to be followed. There are regulations to be met, and that's a path the businesses have to navigate. Could you talk through in a little bit more detail, perhaps what those regulations mean for companies, how they can navigate them, the things that are most important for them to consider? Yeah. So it's different across different parts of the world. But if we kind of focus on the UK here now you've got the equality duty, which essentially means that you are duty bound as an employer to not discriminate against your employees. It's really as simple as that. But as I said, the kind of the knowledge of employees with disability is getting greater and therefore not providing accommodations or adjustments in the workplace to allow somebody with a disability to be as productive as they want to be within the workplace. That's really on the employer now. And so HR professionals are looking at it and saying, well, actually, what role does tech play in this? That's the bit we have the best thing. And it's not just tech, it's also policies and all sorts of things. But essentially, you as an employer have to make sure that you're providing everything. Now accommodations or adjustments, depending on how you describe them, used to be quite a kind of a long drawn out process. So if you think about that person who's lost their hearing in the workplace, okay, well, what would you do? Well, you would have to probably have some kind of, scribe for meetings. You may have to provide that. You would then maybe have to provide sign language interpretation, which is still, you know, a need, but the technology is playing a much greater role now, and it's also adding to the flexibility of the employee experience. So, my boss, Jenny, generally follows the Chief Accessibility of Microsoft globally. She's deaf. And I've watched her experience in my nine years here, going from, you had to coordinate every meeting and lock every meeting in and book the interpreter. Yeah. And then teams came along with this auto captioning. And then it got a lot more flexible. We could meet any time. Occasionally, now I'll ring her when she's driving in her car and, you know, she's still able to kind of, you know, hopefully while she's at the traffic lights. But you get the point. The tech is evolving, the flexibility of employing people with disabilities. And I mean, it would be great if we talk about neurodiversity now, mental health and these sort of things where that's also, you know, tech sources start to play a role there. But essentially the tech is a constant add on, you know, to support people with disabilities and employers. I don't think it's going to be individual case by individual case now, moving forward. The responsibility will be to provide a flexibly, digitally inclusive workplace. Captions turned on, etc.. So talking more about sort of neurodiversity. Can you give me some examples of how technology is supporting people who are neurodiverse? I myself, you know, have friends with ADHD and autism, for example. So therefore I know full well that, you know, in the workplace there are lots of people with lots of different things that they have to manage and deal with. Maybe we can just add a little bit of context first, because it's interesting that when I think through kind of, as I say, long time working in this space, yeah, technology was always quite about delivering the functional experience. So if you couldn't hear something, well there’s tech, for that, if you can't see something, there's tech for that. Yeah. If you couldn't press a button you had a physical disability or a mobility issue, then tech would be added on to kind of support that. We didn't really do neurodiversity or mental health. We did a cognition interestingly kind of what we would term in the UK learning disability, there were quite nice bespoke technologies for this. But neurodiversity in particular, I think was kind of almost like the poor relation in terms of what the tech could do, but generative AI and of course we're going to say Copilot, but Copilot, it's astonishing how that landed, with the neurodiverse communities inside workplaces when when that got out. I don't think it's made it into the, you know, the consumer side quite as much as it will. Trust me, that's coming. That is coming. But in the workplace, we've really started to hear very early on, so the minute you had a Copilot next to you, you know, in M365, you know, you had a long document, suddenly somebody who's ADHD is going to have to read the whole thing. I can just quickly summarise it and it's good. Yeah. And it may be that, yes, I probably do have to read the whole thing, but to get me through this meeting, bullet it for me, like the first prompts we saw in M365 from people with ADHD were, I'm not reading this whole thing. Please read the whole thing and provide four bullet points. No more than four bullet points, go. Yeah, so what happened was because we were having a kind of an active conversation on disability already as Microsoft. And this is honestly, this is what I'm kind of almost like proud about, is that when Copilot landed in the workplace, they were already ready to have this conversation. Yeah, because Microsoft was already there talking about all the other aspects of accessibility. But all of my salespeople, essentially, you know, our teams and our partners, you know, were out there already having that conversation really early, not waiting for it to happen. And the feedback we got very quickly was it's a neurodiversity win. Yeah. It's you know, it is somebody who's autistic, let's say, who's worried about the tone of their email. Am I being blunt here? You know, like I don't often always read these signs. Copilot am I being blunt in this response? Could you help me make it more professional? Go. Yeah. Now, that's for each individual to kind of decide how they wanted to use it. But it was really clear really quickly that this community was coming back to us saying exactly how they would write it. People who are dyslexic, biggest thing, the biggest thing all my career has been this fear of the blank page. Yeah, it's like I've been asked to do this task, but my dyslexia is really even stopping me getting started. Actually, I'm thinking back to kind of PowerPoint, designer back in the day, like even before AI, we used it then for people who were dyslexic to kind of give them a starting point into a document. But Copilot came along and it was like, no, now I can get a really good first draft out real quick and then I can add my personality to it afterwards. But yeah, you know, when I contextualise it, tech used to be very kind of functional. How do we take away the disability essentially through adding this functional assistive technology. And it's moved now to almost like what I would call like social assistive tech. Like helping me with the tone of an email is not, you know, it's not you know, the email still gets written. Yeah. Like, it's not a functional barrier. It's more actually my disability means that my tone is often not great. That's a social thing, you know, like, I get probably coming across, I get quite excited about that because it's like there's a whole new sphere of assistive technology that we're going to start talking about. I think it's wonderful because, you know, everybody needs that second pair of eyes or that other person to say, you know, am I am I being too direct? Am I getting my point across? But for people that really do struggle with certain tones of voice, I mean, I can imagine it's transformative. And I know that it has landed incredibly well with, you know, people who are neurodiverse. Talk to me a little bit more about the business benefits of employing people that are neurodiverse that may have disabilities. Because obviously a lot of businesses might think, yes, I need to comply with these regulations. I have to be able to be seen to be doing certain things. But it's more than that by employing people from different walks of life. There are benefits to business. I'm assuming that you can talk to those for me. 100%. I mean, look, I mean, first things first, the community is already there. Right. There's a kind of a an attraction element of like, hey, could we bring more people with more diversity into our organisation? And, you know, all of the kind of the, the studies on having diverse teams are there, you know, different perspectives. Every organisation is kind of aching for kind of, you know, different perspectives to kind of keep things alive, you know, refreshed. I think, and, all businesses of all sizes and at any stage of their existence are kind of, you know, talking to this. But disability in particular is interesting because there's a design element that people with disabilities require. So the rest of us will kind of muddle along. Okay. But the minute somebody with a disability is literally saying, I can't use this. Yep. Then it drives an innovation. It drives, actually, you can't be the only person who can't use this. I was I was talking about the blurred background in Teams. You know, the blurred background. Yes. That came from lip reading, that came from disability. And Microsoft were the first to do it. Now, had Swetha, who was the engineer who created that? Who was a lip reader herself. Not said all of these faces, all of these messy backgrounds, this is exhausting for me, and I know we've got this new technology and could we add this into Teams? It's actually Skype, back then. But you know, having that person in the room say it is very different from, okay, let's build our product and let's go out to research with our consumers. Yeah. Having people inside your organisation, you're saying, I can't even use our own product. You know, and I would find it difficult to bank here. Yeah, I would find it difficult to shop in this shop. Yeah. Or this whole interface is so cluttered. I don't want it to be here. Yeah. You know, when you hear it, you know, in your own teams, then it drives much more immediate change. I mean, honestly, I could even say that about Windows 11. I'm not joking it’s so interesting to me, when I joined Microsoft, I thought everyone was going to be, like, amazingly perfect the minute I joined and like most kind of pedestals that hold people on, you know, I spent a long time shouting into Microsoft, can we have this? Can we have this? And I thought I was going to get in and I was like, be like The Wizard of Oz. You know, these amazing Teams doing amazing work, but not the same as every other company out there. You know, there are challenges. There are kind of, you know, contrasting requirements and all this sort of thing. And what I noticed was people who’d built careers in a bit of kind of accessibility expertise were suddenly moving into engineering teams. They weren't sitting in the, you know, in the specialist team anymore. They were moving into the actual, you know, team who were building that kit. And so when you looked at the, the contrast themes that came into Windows 11, so anybody who's watching this that's blind low vision or low vision, the old experience, if people will remember back to the old version windows, when you put it into contrast mode, it was like, we hate you. And I mean that in the nicest way possible, but it was ugly. It was so ugly. It was so blocky. When you magnified it, it looked disgusting. And it was basically because it was like a legal requirement. It's like, oh, we've got to make this visible for people with low vision. So okay, well we'll put somebody on that and them go do it. The Windows 11 one was beautiful. The contrast themes, like you would all live perfectly happily in those contrast teams. But the reason it was beautiful is because you had some amazing people like Jeremy, you know, in my team working in that team, saying, I'm not putting up with an ugly alternative for something. I'm in this team, this is my product. Let's make this beautiful. And I think in absolute summary, that's the difference, is that if you don't have people within your organisations, you know, really telling home truths about what it's like and what it's like to use this thing, it will get moved further and further, further down the line of the design process. It will maybe get forgotten about altogether. But having people embedded in your organisation who are ready to talk about their experiences, that is what leads to designing for delight. And that's better. And design for delight always keeps you legal. Yeah. Designing for legal minimum bar always keeps you on the very edge of being legal. You know, attracting legal risk, whereas actually pushing way further than that, to delight, is honestly the benefit. And then what it leads to is the classic curb cut effect inclusive design where you discover something like the blurred background that everybody goes, well, like most people would benefit from that, wouldn't they? Right. You don't get there unless you have the person who's excluded kind of raising their hand and saying, you know, could we do better here? But this applies to every industry. Yeah, it really does. So going back to AI, obviously it is the topic of conversation in technology. But even in society in general at the moment. What do you see as being the core benefits AI can bring? I know we've touched upon Copilot's ability to summarise, make points, help the tone of voice, but also moving to the future, Microsoft, very innovative, forward looking organisation, always wanting to do the best for its customers. Talk to me a little bit about what you see coming down the line. This is a great question. I mean, so so people with disabilities have been in the AI space for some time. So before we got to generative AI, we just had cognitive services. You know, the classic Azure. Here are the cognitive services like the immersive reader and the image recognition. And so we were already using those tools to to innovate around disability. But this new gen age is just a new toolkit. There's a new toy box. I mean, it's like, wow, like things that we thought were impossible are now going to be possible. The one that I smile about, I'm going to say six years ago we had, Anne Taylor, who's blind on the main stage at Future Decoded. I remember Transparity were there with me then as well, talking about this, but she's blind, and she was on stage, mainstage at the big event. 4000 people, I think it was it was like huge, it felt like. And she was saying, look, you know, we're showing all the accessibility, you know, that we were adding using what we were called AI back then. Yeah. And then she was like, one day I'm going to be able to open up a graph, you know, an Excel spreadsheet with some illustrations, with some visual data. And AI is going to be able to help me interpret visual data. And we were all like, yeah, come on, we are going to go and do that, right? Yeah. But but what was great was she knew that's the direction of travel. You know, she works in our innovation team. She could see where this was all going and what was going to be possible. And what's going to happen for people with disabilities is the whole experience will change. So there's boring structural accessibility. You should all be making your documents accessible. Okay. Great colour contrast, headings, navigation, built into your documents. There's an amazing accessibility checker built into Office that teaches you how to do that. But also, one day and actually the day is today. Honestly, this is happening now. These are Ray-Ban glasses okay. These have AI built into them. I've got Copilot in there as well. But now somebody who's blind can go to a document and say, what am I looking at here? Now, there are dangers in all of that, right? In terms of is it giving legal, legitimate information. There's some industries that are going to go, we're not going near this for now. Yeah, but if we were to say if I was looking at a menu in a restaurant right now, I could sit there and go, well and vegetarian, what can I eat on this menu? And the AI will do that for me. Now, we would all love that in a way. Yeah, well, we do? I don't know. But you know, conceptually we would all like that. But for somebody who's blind. Yeah that is a game changer. Yeah. And so it goes back to this designing for delight. I think generative AI is going to turn what used to be clunky, hard experiences around making stuff accessible into much more delightful experiences. One of the first, case studies we published, and we can maybe share the link to it, is what we did with the Wright’s Rijksmuseum. All of the artwork in the Rijksmuseum, if you're blind, you can have a conversation with them. Yeah, and have a conversation with is such a great conversation about how people are going to use their tools in the future. What generative AI allows you to do is not just see this functional, ugly experience read to you, you know, in a legally compliant way. Great. And it allows you to have a conversation with it. Yeah. So if I look at, for example, a political polls tracker, you know, these graphs, so who's closing in the polls and all this stuff? I can now have a conversation with that visual data. What happened there? Why do you think it was? And then it will go into the internet and say, well, there was a stock market crash then, or something. You know, it will start adding some context into the data that I'm looking at. So the whole point and what the disability community are going to teach us really early, they're going to be the first adopters of this is up until now, you have had a functional conversation with your customers and your business. What you're going to have in the in the future is a richer conversation with an AI element to it, built on your company's data and all this kind of stuff. But the the whole interaction experience that we're going to have with tech in the future is going to be what we've always called multimodal. It's going to be lots of ways to input in, lots of ways to receive information out. But that's really the key change that I see coming for people with disabilities is. And it will take a while for it to kind of get out into the society. That's always the bit I feel kind of a bit itchy about. It's like we have these great conversations inside business, but is it reaching Mrs. Jones in Altrincham, you know, and that's the bit I really want to kind of focus on and make sure we're dealing with moving forward. But the firstly, it starts with people with disabilities and AI will be the first people to teach us how to use it properly, because they're just going to be so exposed to it in the kind of they're going to have to use some of these tools, and therefore they're going to kind of be some of the first adopters. I think what's exciting for me, listening to you, is that a lot of people will talk about how AI may threaten their job or threaten their livelihood. It's the exact opposite. AI is an enabler. It is. But I don't think we should ignore, you know, how people feel about kind of you know, it's always, I think when new technology comes out, people think, how is it going to impact me in this job now? How many times in this podcast have I mentioned my age? But like when I was at school, you did train to be a thing. You don't train to be a thing anymore. You know, you train to go and like, you develop your human skills of communication, you know, hard work, effort, you know, all these things, just massively human attributes. But this idea that you’re going to stay in the same job, these job sections are it's going to get shorter and shorter and shorter, but the jobs will keep changing. And the idea that everything's fixed in society is just not true. Yeah. Like there's a lot to do out there. And I just think, I maybe I'm too optimistic. I hope I'm not. But essentially where I look at it is, yes, there will be things that kind of AI is immediately applied to. But what will humans do when they're sitting there going, what do I spend my time doing next? And what role do I move into next? There's a lot of things to fix in society, and I just don't see us sitting still and going, well, I'll just sit home now. I just hope, you know, I've got kids myself. And so, I think about this all the time. And here's what I will say to my kids. Sorry if this is even remotely interesting, but I do think it kind of gets to it. It's like, get all the skills you can, but the skills are going to change. You're never going to stop learning. I haven't, I'm a chemist. I didn't stay there. But work out what industry you want to work in. Because if you work at what industry you want to work in, you'll get in and then you will shift to whatever, you know, wherever you go. But sort of aligning yourself with the industry and the purpose of the industry and something that you love or that you're interested in, I think to me is the is the best advice we can give people. And then AI will play a role in sort of how we all work as humans. The risk of AI is that it homogenises everything as well. And so, you know, the absolute bit about what makes us productive and human, that will be what becomes more valuable. And then just to bring it full circle, that's what the disabled community can teach us every single day. I think it's really exciting for me because what you're effectively saying is, it's a dialog. It's an interaction. Technology doesn't exist in isolation. Neither does a community within this world. And they will interact. They will inform each other, and they will support innovation on both sides. And as you say, we have a lot to learn from the disability community in terms of what they can bring to us, and they can bring to the whole, you know, tech for accessibility question. If we move on to just my final thoughts and words, what would you say is the most important thing for businesses to take forwards as they embrace the age of AI and do their best to, employ and understand the needs of people with disabilities and more than that, benefit from employing people with disabilities. So just in the age of AI, the data that will be missing will be the people who are excluded from the experiences you build. And that can go across language, literacy, disability. Any kind of excluded group will be excluded by the data that you build your systems on. So first things first, if we're missing data in the AI systems that we build, we're going to attract the regulator further down the track. Yeah. So if you’re somebody can't use what you're building, that's when society says, well why is this person being discriminated against. So first things first, AI, we're doing a lot of work inside Microsoft right now on kind of whose data is not in the AI. You know, we've got to be proactively working to make sure that we're getting that, so that we can drive these equitable experiences. And then the guidance that I would give to anybody who's looking at this topic of accessibility. Let me frame it this way. Some companies are obsessed with their legal requirements of their customers, but they're not doing a great job with their own colleague experience. And then there's other organisations that I meet who are just, like, massively do a great job on the inclusion agenda within their organisation. But those professionals are not sitting there thinking, what's it like for the customers? And what I would say to people is link these together and in the middle add skilling, you know, building things inclusive and forget accessible for the moment, just inclusive of a wide group of humans. Only it doesn't happen just by accident. You've got to be super deliberate about doing it. But these horizons of colleague experiences, skills and capability and then innovating for your customers, if we can coordinate customers to start linking these conversations, frankly, even between professionals like the HR director should be talking to the brand person and saying, how do we link disability inclusion across all, you know, everything that we do? You know, remember Microsoft did Super Bowl ads on disability. When people say to me like, why is it important? Microsoft? Well, it made Super Bowl ads. You know, it made Super Bowl ads because Microsoft was saying to the world, this is a Microsoft that wants to include everybody moving forward. It's like, you know, we've come from the first 25 years or whatever we were at the time, of like building software and making it work for people. But as we move forward, we got to build it for everybody. And that brand experience or that brand messaging of inclusion really came through in the accessibility work that we're doing. So, just to keep it short, the linking your representation and what talent and voice you have within your organisation, nurturing that will lead to you building more inclusive digital experiences, but only if you deliberately link the two. So, just another couple of questions for you, Hector. Obviously Transparity works very closely with our customers, and I'm thinking of organisations like RNIB where we have sought to deliver real benefits to their employees. And there is a role we play in enabling businesses. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more to how Microsoft and partners like Transparity can deliver those benefits. Absolutely. So, you know, firstly, thank you for doing that work. I mean, you are the final mile for us. Like I also think like it's almost like we talk hypothetically sometimes as Microsoft. But unless partners are out there doing that final piece for us, all the work we do kind of just stays where it was. So, you know, you having that deliberate conversation and actually working with customers who've got that very specific need, like the RNIB. And congratulations on the award. I mean, I was cheering, you know, that when I saw it on social. But what that teaches you is your team is, this is how you do it, because this customer really needs it. You know, they've got the established need and they're showing us. But hopefully then that diffuses out into kind of other customers where it's not so obvious, but you do the work anyway. You realise you can build, you know, those accessible systems, those accessible business applications for that customer. I think that's important. And that's really what it's all about for me. It's like the partners will go do the work. You know, Microsoft increasingly becomes that general purpose technology provider. It's like, look, you know, we're building these tools. We've got this AI, we've got this opportunity to build more inclusive. But unless I've got people out there having a commercial conversation about accessibility day in, day out, we don't make progress in society. So, that's the role. And thank you. Absolute pleasure. Hector, thank you so much for joining us today. I think it's been an absolutely, inspiring and insightful, discussion. Please, if you have any questions, do get in contact with Transparity. And once again, embrace accessibility to the delight of your colleagues, your customers and your communities.