The Creative Block
A new show dedicated to the conversations with artists, entrepreneurs and small-business owners in and around the Omaha, Lincoln and Council Bluffs area.
The Creative Block
Taylor, Christa, Sharon, Kevin, Cody, Andrea Joy
Welcome back to The Creative Block — the podcast where creative minds break down walls and build something unforgettable.
This week, I’m joined by six incredible guests:
Taylor Kibbie, GM of Omaha’s iconic Alice and Wicked Rabbit bars.
Christa Schiessl, a wedding and portrait photographer with a sharp eye for details.
Sharon Manhart, muralist and painter transforming spaces with her bold ideas.
Kevin Kabore, one of the areas most inspiring filmmaker and digital storyteller.
Cody Jones, an accomplished filmmaker currently working on the global hit series Ted Lasso.
And Andrea Joy — motivational speaker, life coach, and force for community change.
Let’s get into the work, the why, and the wild ride of the creative journey.
https://www.youtube.com/@creativeblockpod
https://www.instagram.com/creativeblock.pod
It is important to talk about money with other creatives. It is absolutely this like, oh, if you talk about money, then it's because you sold out and you're only concerned about getting paid. Pay artists. We are small businesses ourselves. It is a job. It is a career. It is an absolute legitimate way to pay your bills, to pay your mortgage, buy a car, pay for your kid's college. It is not a hobby. Just because we enjoy what we do, that just means we're fortunate. That doesn't mean it's not a job.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Welcome back to the podcast where creative minds break down walls and build something unforgettable. This week I'm joined by six incredible guests. Taylor Kibbe is the GM of Omaha's iconic Alice and Wicked Rabbit bars. Krista Schissel is a wedding photographer and portrait photographer with a sharp eye for detail and emotions. We'll be right back.
UNKNOWN:Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:I honestly cannot thank you enough for taking time out of your day to, you know, come and chat with us. I got to give a shout out to my guy, Tay. Taylor. Tay. We call him Swifty. T-Bone. T-Bone. That was prior. He's the general manager here at Alice. Alice is a maiden social company brand, if you will. If you've been to Wicked Rabbit or Buried Rye via Farina Lackalona.
SPEAKER_02:There
SPEAKER_04:you go. So really cool that you let us use the venue for
SPEAKER_02:this little conversation. Oh, thank you guys for being
SPEAKER_04:here. You know, honestly, the purpose of this, I was thinking in my head, I was watching one of those Hollywood reporter, you know, when everybody gets on a round table, some of the most interesting people in the world, right? But We have a lot of those here, I believe. I think there's just a lot, we're just not world known. And so I was just like, why don't we get something local like that, figure something out, we can shoot in a cool venue, we can give some love to local entrepreneurs, local businesses, things like that. And I was just like, I always come up with like these creative, I don't come up with, I always get creative blocked. It's sort of like writer's block, right? And so I'm like, what do I do? Well, I don't reach out. So I actually, like I've talked to Andrea Joy several times and I talked to my guy Nate who's behind the camera and Matt and I've worked with him. And, you know, I just was like, you know, what if I just had them all in the room? So just put people that you kind of admire from afar that you don't know, have a conversation with and figure it out because we're all, you know, we've all, you know, at different places in our careers, but we're all kind of in the same ecosystem. So that was really it. And that's why I reached out to you guys on IGN and said, let's get a group together and let's have a conversation. So the fact that you guys were all down, I love it. And I think everybody here has a different thing, believe it or not. I don't know if he has an artistic bone in his body, but he's very creative behind the bar. No, I'm just kidding. I'm picking on you a lot, man. But so real quick, I'll just introduce myself. I'm Chad. I'm a filmmaker, videographer, content creator. Was born in Omaha, lived in small town Nebraska. I've traveled the world. I wish I could travel more. I've got to, I've lived in New York. I've lived in Los Angeles. I've studied film. I've studied acting. I was an actor for a while. And I moved back here in 2010. Started working at M's Pub. And that's where I met a ton of creative people. And I started getting kind of creative with, I thought maybe the bar thing was for me. And then I started kind of like, you know, filming myself doing it and all this stuff. And I was like, maybe I do want to get back into editing and post-production and all that stuff. And so I started doing a little post-production stuff for a local company here. And I started kind of growing and growing. I was like, maybe I want to get behind the camera and test some stuff. So that's kind of what happened. And I started my own thing in 2019. And since then, things have gone really well. But, you know, you always hit, blocks. And it's like, okay, where do I go next? So that's kind of what led me to wanting to sit down with some people that are really killing it here locally. So I guess we'll just kind of go down the line here and give me an idea of what you do, who you are. A little introduction. Krista, why don't you start? Oh, snap. You guys, pick on
SPEAKER_05:me. No. Well, I'm Krista. Hi, Krista. Hey, Krista. I'm Krista Schissel. I am based out of Lincoln. I am a professor wedding photographer and portrait photographer. I shot my first wedding in high school. I've been a photographer ever since then and really just decided in 2020 that I was going to niche down into wedding photography and take this business full-time because I'd been doing it for so long, was so scared for years and years and years to make the leap. Nate, help me. Nate, hi. So yeah, That's kind of where I'm at. Yeah,
SPEAKER_07:I love it. My name is Sharon Manhart. I'm a traditional sign and mural painter. I started painting signs when I was in high school. My first job out of high school was working at a grocery store for five years doing all of their advertising in the shop. And then I tattooed for five years and then I worked a million other random jobs to try to survive. But every job I worked, I would always end up making the signs for whatever place I worked. So after I was working for Autumn Pruitt, Hardy College, She took advantage of me wanting to do those things. I was able to do some work for her there. That spiraled into doing some work for other local breweries and restaurants and stuff. So I've been on my own full time for probably about 13 or 14 years, hand painting signs and murals all over town. I love the blend of fine art and graphic design. So I feel like murals, public art, and hand-painted signs are a great marriage of all of that. So that's my story. And my husband works with me, too.
SPEAKER_00:You've got to give him some love. He's wonderful. He's always like, what?
UNKNOWN:Kevin.
SPEAKER_01:My name is Kevin Kabor. I'm a photographer and videographer. I'm creative. I make a lot of stuff for social media. I consider myself a middle child because I do a lot of online content creation, but then I get to work with higher production stuff. I was born in Burkina Faso, West Africa. My dad was a videographer and did a lot of... documentaries and my mom was a professional editor so like growing up just i just always had like a camera in my hand yeah i didn't have a choice and i have just been making stuff that's
SPEAKER_04:cool that's awesome yeah love love the stuff that you're creating man i mean i've seen some growth too it's
SPEAKER_03:um i'm cody jones uh i found filmmaking through photography. I started with photography, and I thought I wanted to be a photographer, and it just felt really lone wolf for me. I'd always really loved group projects throughout school. Every time the teacher was like, find a group of four, I was like, yes! Geek. But nobody else liked being in a group project in school. And I kind of missed that, and looking at a career in photography, I I just kind of saw myself working, you know, mostly solo to do art. And that started to really kind of bum me out. And then I was sitting in the movie theater and the credits scroll and there's hundreds of names. I was like, there it is. There's the team. That's the group project. So, and it's image making, which I did really truly love photography, but I just, I wanted to do it with people and collaborate. And so since then I was like, I got to do filmmaking. So now I do, a very silly, unique role called digital imaging technician within the camera department for narrative and television and commercial. Why is it silly? What are you talking about? It's just like... You said a
SPEAKER_04:bunch of words that I
SPEAKER_03:need a PhD to understand. That's what I'm saying. It's complicated. I also do color for post-production as well. Those two roles... I think that's how I know you. I know you as a colorist. Colorist, yes. So... It's
SPEAKER_06:awesome. Very cool. And I will say, I love a group project. I love group creative projects. And I like to say I'm a creative who loves to work with creatives. And how do we make that a good time? But I'm Andrea Joy Pearson. I'm the founder of a space called Joy Brings Light. In that it's a leadership development company. I think we all get the opportunity to be leaders in our own lives. I'm a nationally recognized speaker, facilitator, creator. director. I feel like I'm leaving something off. Oh yeah, strategic advisor. In that, particularly for my creative art side, I am a sound healer. I do traditional sound healing and experimental sound. I'm a visual artist and you heard me say creative director. I really just like to say, how do we all bring the uniqueness, the special vibe that we each have and let our minds express together to to tell a story, to say something special and to do something special in real time. Love it. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:I'm Taylor Kibbe. I've been doing this for about 20 years now. Bartended in LA, Chicago, Mexico, Puerto Rico, and then now Omaha, Nebraska as well. We're part of Maven Social, so we own multiple bars here in town, but primarily we've got the top-end restaurants and top-end bars in the entire city. Again, we really do like getting all the community together as well, too, so we definitely appreciate you guys being here and asking us to go ahead and do this. Any sort of local business, obviously, to support the community. That's the best way to go ahead and continue business. It's a beautiful space. It's absolutely gorgeous.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. We, uh, you know, that was, that was probably the main thing that made me go like, okay, this could work. Like if we get everybody together and we do it in a different spot at each time, it kind of gives people, uh, you know, um, maybe they, they go to a space they haven't either been in a while or have never been. And they get an opportunity to be like, all right, like I got to tell my friends about this. It's cool. So it gives them some. That's great. Right. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, thanks again, guys. So I guess a few questions, like, so, and this is open discussion now at this point, and we all cross talk, you know, just talk to me. I'm not like, I'm not the host. I'm just a cog, right, in the machine. But, you know, so lately, though, I've just kind of been, what are people doing, you know, for, you know, I call it creative block. How do you get out of that? How do you hammer through that? I mean, Kevin, I've seen you do... I saw your work and you were also behind the camera and you've lately started getting kind of in front of the camera and kind of inspired me to be like, yeah, I gotta do that too. Why do you think that was important for you?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I feel like I've always done it, but I just didn't post it. I just didn't like it. I wasn't confident and then I was like, I'm very competitive, so I play basketball growing up. I was like, I'm nicer than these people. And they just don't care. So I was like, okay, I just gotta not care a little bit. I was like, my haircut was bad, and I was like, maybe I shouldn't post it. It would be like dumb things. I get it.
SPEAKER_04:That's perfectionism. Anybody else? How do you... I just, I don't know. I know, you know, filmmaking, photography, things like that. But like, you know, tell me about like what, with what you do. Like I'm, I don't know anything about it.
SPEAKER_07:As far as what I do, it can be very isolating when you're just creating something by yourself, because if you're not filming somebody else, like this is something you at least have one other person that this is bouncing off of. But if you're just painting a wall, you're literally just you right there, six inches from your face, painting a wall. It's very isolating. It's very on your own. As everybody said in our introductions, though, it's about collaboration. So the way I've I one of the number one things I hate in a creative community is gatekeeping. So my my mission, my soapbox is about educating artists about the business side of being a creative. So when I'm struggling with coming up for a layout or what content is going to be in a mural, I have multiple group chats that i can just say hey this is a picture of the wall this is what the client's like it's a small town but we want to do something that's a little bit edgier but not so much so that all ages aren't going to enjoy it so reaching out to your community and saying like what what envelope like what edges can i push here but still keep this so just reaching out to community and having those conversations with others is how i get through that i don't know what to do right here when you're holding a pencil and a piece of paper and you're just stuck Community is everything.
SPEAKER_03:100%.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. But nurturing those community relationships because if you want to just be yourself in a studio working by yourself, you don't have that community and you're only hurting yourself. Like everybody loses when you isolate yourself. Sure. So nurture.
SPEAKER_06:I think, so two things. I think community is everything, right? And one, I like to say you are your first community. But inside of that I think the release of perfection is really important so like just to like jump back to what Kevin was talking about of saying like oh I make all this stuff but how much actually gets seen by others and I think that's probably true for majority of creatives I might even say a lot of us here they're like we make more than what people see right and it's that release of the perfection in trying to show up a particular type of way or something that I struggle with is always wanting to make sure things are really high quality right and in that being able to say it's okay people are pulling out their phones like getting on just in the car you know no production like any of this and saying it's okay for me not to be perfect and that in itself is beautiful right and also taking on a mindset something that helps me at times is taking on a mindset of being iteration focused so like I'm not focused on how do I make this thing perfect I'm focused on how do I just have a whole lot of iterations and know that for me to get to the more perfect which doesn't exist, right? But like the highest quality, I just need to go through a bunch of iterations. So it's like, okay, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm not even going to worry about really how it's looking for real, for real, until we maybe get to the eighth or ninth iteration. You and I are a lot alike that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it keeps you productive. I'm version one through 20. Yeah. And sometimes it's version two that work. But I got to get to 20 to go, man, if I didn't try that, like, how am I supposed to know? You know, I've got to switch it over here. it takes a lot of time, right? Krista's like, she knows, I think she knows well enough to be like, why are we doing this again? You know, it's like, we've shot some weddings together where it's like, I need another take. But yeah. No, but see, I'm like,
SPEAKER_06:no, take that first and second take and we out. Like, it's going to work. Like, that's just the iteration of that. Like, it'll be better six months from now, but like, I'm not going to try to be that. I'm just going to try to be what I can be right now. And like, I think people like authenticity. So like, it doesn't have to be perfect. So it's like, we got three takes of this and that's it. And that's it. Like, let's just get to the next thing.
SPEAKER_04:Like, yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. Tell me about, uh, the, the wedding photography business, you know, so. When I first was doing it, I was like, okay, I think photography is the way to go. You know, and Nate and I were just like, man, photos are so much better, man. The video, it's crazy. Yeah, you get 2,000 photos, but, you know, you cull it down to about 400 and you're good to go. Like, video can take, like, months for me to get through, like, a wedding film. It can take a long time. You got to make it pretty, you know. Music takes me the damn longest because you got to get the, you know, the license stuff and all this other stuff. It's like, man, music takes forever.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Tell me, how do you think from when you started the wedding photography business sort of evolved and like, where are you in that sort of that community? Because she just won a big, you kind of won a big award.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I don't know. Like there's just, everything is so like, ever-changing and evolving in the wedding industry. And I think it's really important to just be curious, try new things. And that's kind of what helps me cultivate the new ideas and just new equipment, that sort of thing. Being able to just, I don't know, being agile and flexible and not being closed-minded has really helped me throughout, I guess, this process.
SPEAKER_04:Tell us about this best of that you recently received, this big award.
SPEAKER_05:Man.
SPEAKER_04:Not to ruin the... Okay,
SPEAKER_05:okay. No. Tell us about it. So, let's see. You've been nominated on... Okay, I'm Lincoln Choice Award winner for Best of Wedding Photography. I've won it... Don't be modest. Three years now. Oh, wow. So, yeah, and then... And then one year got third. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04:She did our, uh, my wife and I's wedding in Colorado. And, uh, we just, I mean, we got them hung up on our, our, now we have a baby and she goes through all of our photos. It's really fun. I think it pissed every time. Cause it's like, you know, I had such a, I had such a really nice time and a good moment. Nate was there too. He did the video. Uh, but, um, well, yeah, no, I've, I've always kind of like, every time I've worked in, it's like, you're so, you know, how, when, you know, things get, Okay. you know, there's a lot of on the fly.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Because things happen, there's rain, you know, there's things you can't, can't, you know, plan for. But your creative process in getting there, like tell me a little bit about how you kind of, because everything is so different. Like, what do you, how do you plan? Do you have a plan going in or are you more of a, let's fly by the seat of our pants?
SPEAKER_05:No, no, no, no. There's a game plan that we plan months in advance. But obviously it never goes as planned. Because there's always something, like a bride either like getting the reception venue ready and not where they need to be or just something happens. And it's to be expected. There's moving parts. And I think just being flexible and being able to fly by the seat of your pants on a wedding day if something needs to switch. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:And so like, you know, on the aspect of community, even though you're technically, it's you doing it, it's your mind, it's your creative process. What has the community sort of like, how has it sort of... helped you articulate your vision? Like, cause I'm sure you borrow stuff from other creators that you just, I mean, from compositions to different things. I mean, there's gotta be, there's gotta be some things.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. There's definitely some things that inspire me to try new things. Like last week, TikTok inspired me to try like off camera flash with a trigger and like do that. And so I've been learning that and it's been a lot of fun. Did it
SPEAKER_04:work out for you?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I'm pretty excited to start implementing
SPEAKER_04:it. So
SPEAKER_05:yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It just kind of creates like some different sort of dramatic shadows and things like
SPEAKER_05:that. Yep. It changes where the shadows end up landing on like usually behind your subject. So they're not as prominent in the shot and just kind of gives it more of a, I don't know if I'd say paparazzi effect, but just kind of, I don't know, a softer shadow. So
SPEAKER_04:yeah. You know, I think, so I used to bartend and jump to Taylor here for a second. I used to bartend and it would get so busy and people were just like, they'd come to the bar and they didn't want something fancy and all that stuff. I'd whip it together real quick. How'd you do that so fast? It's repetition, the whole thing. I always felt like I was almost going, you know, too fast. Like I was taking the art out of it because I was just trying to get it done. I was trying to get step one, two, three, four, get in front of the person. So I get to the next, you know, and you know, where you are at this level, you know, I've spent some time here. It is. Art. This is not the type of bartending I did. Like you guys are putting in like, what's the smoke bubble? There's some wild stuff. I did a bunch of content for them recently and man, we did some really cool things. We got things on fire, we're smoking stuff. why do you think that sort of the bar business has kind of moved into that sort of like, we need to kind of, you know, we need to set ourselves apart. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the biggest thing. What I always tell everybody is small tears. You can buy a bottle of Jack Daniel and have a great night. 1599. I've been there. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:When
SPEAKER_02:you go to the bar, I mean, you're looking for experience. You're looking for camaraderie. You're looking to go ahead and make memories and possibly drink enough to forget all those memories. Yeah. But when you go out to a bar, I mean, you are going out for the experience. You're paying for that experience, for that camaraderie, for everything that's around you, for the scene, for everything else that's going on as well, too. The bar industry definitely has kicked up quite substantially over the last 10 years. A lot of that has been due to social media aspects and stuff like that as well, too. The nice part about the bartending industry now is back in the day when I started this 20 years ago, I mean, there was bar books and there was about two different companies. Like, Death& Co. was one of the only companies, only bars in the entire United States that made a book of their recipes so there's one place so I had books and books and books of cocktails just the garnishments the liquor that go into them and now everything's just at your handheld you can see what New York City's doing what LA's doing what Japan's doing what everyone else is doing all across the entire world all at the same time and that's definitely the fun part of creativity as well too that everything's there and that's also the problem is you can do anything you want so you gotta figure out where to start and what's attainable my whole biggest thing is problem solutions and deadlines. That's kind of what we're doing here and here as well, too. Creativity and problem solution is the exact same thing. For a wedding, you have the wedding person that's like, make me look pretty, but not too pretty. I want you here. Never. We've got to figure out what they want.
SPEAKER_06:We've
SPEAKER_02:got to figure out what they want. Of course, going to the deadline It's like you say as well. It's like going fast. I mean, there's always a good solution, a better solution, a best solution. And it's got to be figured out, like, what's the deadline? Do they want this cocktail in two minutes or do they want this cocktail in 15 minutes and I can go ham in that cocktail?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think, like... the first drink I think I ever had here, it was like on fire and smoking and like, and I was just like, it tastes amazing, but I'm like, I don't want to drink it. It's too, you know, it's like, it's like a piece of art, you know what I mean? There is
SPEAKER_07:like painting over your beautiful. Recently.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Uh, we just went to, I went to a convention in Cincinnati, which was a 50th anniversary of the letterheads meetings, which is basically like old school lettering artists started getting it together 50 years ago. But there was about 600 people in this, um, sign you in Cincinnati, Ohio and one of the things that one of the mural artists said there was sometimes you sign the mural and sometimes you sign the check because sometimes you're so proud of the creation that you've made that you're signing that art and you want to be related to it and sometimes you're just signing the check and it's about just producing like sometimes you're just passing some Bud Lights and that's all they want and you're just cashing the check you're signing the check exactly so it's you have to understanding your customer do they want you creating a custom experience or do they just need you to literally get that sign up right now and just get
SPEAKER_06:it done? That's a good point. One of the things that I want to talk about with that in particular is I think that's, that's what is a big separating factor between people who do it as a hobby and people who do it as a profession, right? Because like when you're doing it as a profession, you're taking in more and your output has to be higher. And you are also a lot of times you were in the space that not only am I pleasing myself i also have to please the person who is signing the check on the other side and so that means like there's a level of release that's there and a level of open-mindedness and open-heartedness and also deadlines right so like you you have to be able to do a solid churn and to be able to listen to what other people are asking for and to be able to regurgitate that back out visually or sound wise or engineering wise or lighting lighting light the lightning wise, right? Whatever that looks like, right? Versus if you're doing it as a hobby, you can sit and work on that, you know, that one thing that you're doing for three years if you want to. You know, you did 75 iterations in the background that nobody saw. Whereas like if you're doing it as a profession, you got to get this done in three weeks. And like, not only does it have to be done, it has to be done to your liking and theirs at the same time.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think that there is a sort of as an artist, do you ever find, okay, when does that art then become someone else's. In other words, because they pay for it, do they own it now? I mean, they do, but that art, you know, you paint something and you put a signature there. Is that another conversation? Is that something different? That's a whole
SPEAKER_07:other conversation. That's a
SPEAKER_03:contractual issue. I just want to jump in really quick. I love that you said you signed the check or you signed the art. Ours is one for the meal, one for the reel.
SPEAKER_07:Nice.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. There you go. Look at
SPEAKER_07:that.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. It's just going to be a fun
SPEAKER_04:little thing. Yeah, kind of tell me, I was thinking like, you know, you've got a Van Gogh here and it's been purchased a gazillion times, sits in a museum. Whose is it? Is it Van Gogh's or is it the museum's or is it us? Whose is it? Who owns it?
SPEAKER_07:In our experience, that's going to be a contractual issue that you have to discuss with your client. Because if there are people that if you create a logo and paint it on the wall for a business, you still own the creative rights to that. They own the sign that's on the wall. So if they want to put that logo that you created on T-shirts, on hats, you have to then sign a license and contract so that you release the ownership of that. And there could be stipulations of you can use this for five years. You can only use this for such and And I've done that with other local graphic designers that I've hired them to design an image and they gave me two years to print t-shirts with that image on it. But then after that, I would have to re-up the contract. So you own what you create until it's purchased as a free use for whatever they want. like then that has to be a whole nother conversation.
SPEAKER_04:Now, Krista, if you had an issue with that before with copier, like people taking your images and then just like printing them off themselves and like not paying the, because I thought that there was an issue where they didn't, they wanted to go save some money. And they just wanted the digital images, but not print them. But they printed them anyway. I thought there was something.
SPEAKER_05:Not with, no, I don't think I've had that issue. So in my contracts with my clients, it's like a personal licensing agreement. So they can use those photos for any like personal use. Now, I obviously still hold the copyrights. And I think that's kind of confusing for most people. But it just
SPEAKER_04:kind of. Does it change your editing and stuff like that? Has it ever been an issue where they like throw filters on it when you post it?
SPEAKER_05:I've seen it happen to other photographers. Back when I was more of a hobbyist, it's happened to myself, but I didn't really have a good set contract in place. So it wasn't really
SPEAKER_07:something that we... I think something along the lines with that. So like if a client had photos that you took of their wedding and then someone that had a publication, then ask the bride if they could use that photo in a magazine without asking you. That would be the issue. Because then it's more of a... Personal use
SPEAKER_04:free, but professional use free. It's important to protect yourself in
SPEAKER_07:that way. And make sure you get credit for anything that you create. That is such an important thing. I work with Arielle a lot with Louis Creative House. And if she will link me in a lot of her reels, because I'll help with the painting process, but I would never take one of her photos that she's taken of me working and not credit her once I share it. So if you're, whether I'm at one of your events or whether I'm sharing a photo that you took, all always make sure credit the creatives. I mean, just tag them somewhere in it. It doesn't have to be a whole diatribe, but just make sure that people know I got this drink. It was here. This is who made it. This is the umbrella group.
SPEAKER_04:And this has been a PSA.
SPEAKER_07:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Give artists their
SPEAKER_06:credits. It's how you honor people. So there's a couple of things that I kind of want to jump in that we just talked about, but let me start where we were and then kind of go back a little bit. So one of them being is that to any of the artists and creatives that are out here. be willing to advocate for yourself you deserve to have credit you deserve to feel good about what it is that particularly again if you are giving it to another entity that you feel good about what is happening to it now and what's going to happen to it in the future and to make sure that you advocate that your name is continually attached to it and it's okay to say hey i only want to give this up for a year or i want to give you rights to this for five years right so that you you make sure that someone's not just getting something forever and they paid you five dollars for it so be willing to advocate for yourself it's not always the most comfortable thing to do reach out to other creatives who are in some of the same spaces that you're in or reach out to just other creatives that you know and ask them how they navigate those conversations or how they build out their contracts because as you continue to do it know that that people in the background who do it regularly are advocating for certain things to be put into place and you deserve that as well because you deserve to feel good about your art now and moving forward and so then the second thing that I wanted to go back to was actually something Taylor was talking about when people are coming in for the drinks and what it is is like you know you can just buy a bottle somewhere or you can come here and you're coming for the experience is I think you know so in that space you're going to say I'm a strategic advisor and a lot of that is around culture and experience design and I think everyone wants an experience dance. Right. And I think that's what separates us from computers is that like, we want to have an experience. We want to, to feel something. People will always remember what they saw or what they heard, but they often will remember how they feel and how they felt. Right. And so it's like, how do you create experiences in whatever it is that you are making that you are putting out that people feel something. And so one of like, when I'm creative directing, one of the first things, and like, not even just creative creative director with teams, for me, if I'm creating something, the first question that has to be asked is how do we want people to feel? Before we make anything, before we talk about any colors, any light, any sounds, anything, any script, it has to be how do we want people to feel? feel. That puts a purpose behind your project. Yeah. Because people want an experience.
SPEAKER_04:So then your art or your creation, it's not necessarily then, you know, yours. I mean, it's yours, right? Because you're creating it, but you're
SPEAKER_06:giving it. If
SPEAKER_04:you're giving it, you're giving it. But it's also,
SPEAKER_06:right. If you're giving it, you're giving it. And you have to accept that. Again, if you are making it for yourself, it's all about you. But
SPEAKER_04:there are artists out there that really will make something. It's like, I don't care what the rest of the world thinks of it. I'm going to go out there and do a selfish thing for myself and people will just buy it because I am who I am. And I mean, if that's the way it is, that's the way it is. I mean, you're lucky like that or whatever. But... Partially though. I mean, I think there's truth to that because I can say, for me, you heard
SPEAKER_06:me say, my company's called Joy Brings Light. Ultimately, a lot of times, I want people to feel joy in some capacity. 100%. But I can't control whether or not that's what the... outcome is. So I could say, say I'm, I'm going to, uh, for me as a sound healer, I'm going in to curate a sound healing session and mine are highly curated and intentional. And I will always ask any clients when I sit down, what's going on with your team, like so that I can, can build back. And I might say, okay, this team, there's a lot of strife that's happening here. I want them to feel connected and I want them to feel seen. And so I'm curating with that in mind, but I can't control if that's actually like the outcome that other people feel that's not my job though either and that's where some of that like release has to happen and even like going all the way back to what Kevin was talking about in that space of being able to release perfection is you can't control how somebody's going to take it anyway they might or might not have even noticed the hairline Right? So you can't get too caught up in it because once it's out, it's up to other people to completely determine their whole experience. Kevin, you have
SPEAKER_04:beautiful hair
SPEAKER_06:all the
SPEAKER_01:time. All the time. Beautiful. I got a haircut last week. But kind of connecting both of you guys, like I made a video about Omaha and a lot of people like received it well. But behind it, it was like, I want to leave. I want to go to New York because I feel like this isn't giving me what I want. So in my response, I made a video to convince myself. And then people took it completely not how I meant, but people were like, oh, wow, this is beautiful, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, that's not what I was like when it was. I
SPEAKER_07:remember there was a long exactly what you're saying. There was an interview on when MTV used to play music and have 120 minutes interviews and stuff. But they were interviewing a band, and I don't know if it was Coldplay or Pearl Jam, but they said, so what does this song mean? And the artist said... I don't want to speak to what it meant to me because after I create it, it could be a love song to someone. It could be a breakup song to someone else. It could be like an independent anthem to someone else. So like you can have an intention behind it, but once you give it to someone else, they can receive it however they want. But like, that's the beauty of art is it can be received in a million different ways once it's outside of you. So that's a benefit. That's great.
SPEAKER_04:I agree. It's more... Because it almost becomes more than kind of what... It tributaries off into different things and maybe becomes more than you even intended because of other people's interpretations of it. Cody, you've been quiet. You know, I know... You're working on a project that as soon as you say it, everybody's going to know what you're talking about. And I know you can't dive too much into it. Yeah. So because, so, you know, I think the reason I want to bring it up is because you probably worked on some projects that all of us are like, Oh, you did that? Like that's wild. Like you were doing some pretty dope things. And Kevin too. I mean, he's, you know, we'll talk about that too. He's done some Nike stuff and we can talk about that. Tell me, what are you working on these days, Cody? And where are you in your work?
SPEAKER_03:So I have a TV show that I got on here coming up, and you might be familiar with Ted Lasso.
SPEAKER_04:What? Yeah, I'm pretty sure even if you haven't seen it, everybody knows what it is.
UNKNOWN:Ah!
SPEAKER_06:Beautiful! Congratulations! That's actually... This is
SPEAKER_03:one of the bigger projects that you've... This is probably one of the biggest projects that I've had the opportunity to be a part of so far. How do you feel about it so far? I'm so stoked.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like
SPEAKER_04:I just got hired by Ted Lasso. Congratulations! Is Apple going to sue us for putting this out in the world? I mean... Hold on, that pause had me
SPEAKER_06:concerned
SPEAKER_04:for a second. So I won't show in the script, you let me read, but other than that, we're fine,
SPEAKER_03:right? Right. I mean, season four has been announced, so I don't think it's a mystery. What are you doing? I'm going to be the digital imaging technician in the camera department. Wow. Okay, what the hell is
SPEAKER_04:that? What does that mean? Are you taking, it sounds like you're taking the photos and you're putting them in the water.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah. In the dark room. Yeah, maybe. It's a little different. Yeah, tell us about it. Yeah, it's a weird position. that came about when filmmaking went from analog celluloid film to digital cameras and digital media. So it entails a whole bunch of responsibilities within the camera department. The one that a lot of people are familiar with is just taking all of the media that comes from the cameras, the digital assets, and backing it up and making sure that that's all done safely and organized. And really, I love to tell people it's being the liaison between production and post-production. Cause when you're doing, making the movie and it's crazy and you're shooting everything.
SPEAKER_04:We're talking about millions of dollars that you're, I mean, one asset is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Oh yeah. Every minute on the clock. It's unreal. Especially with a project like that.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Yeah. And it all comes through me and gets passed along to post-production. And so at that point, when it comes out of the camera, when it comes out of the sound mixer, like there's one copy of that footage and I hold it and go play. That one always freaks people out, but I love it.
SPEAKER_05:We don't want to
SPEAKER_00:drop it in
SPEAKER_05:the trash. This is
SPEAKER_00:not a time
SPEAKER_05:to slip and fall. Wait, they're not shooting on dual cards
SPEAKER_04:here? What? Okay. These files are massive, so you've got terabytes about terabytes. So obviously, you don't just get a gig like that by showing up and putting your hat there. I mean, over the course, your work has to speak for itself. You know, what would you say, like getting that, you know, from when you first started kind of with what you do, how did you, I mean, how do you think you ended up getting this gig? It's not, you know, through an
SPEAKER_03:agent. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Somebody spoke for you. How long is a piece of string? I mean, I decided that I wanted to be a filmmaker and, you know, 2018 or whatever. I think that's when I went freelance was in 2018. Amazing. Like 2012 in high school, I was like, I want to do photography and And like, since then, I've just been taking steps to try to continue to pursue that at that level. And so, you know, the relationships that I cultivate, the people, the groups, the creative groups that I'm in, all work at that level. And I've always aimed and shot, you know, that's my goal, right? Is to be on this level of work. So
SPEAKER_04:interesting is like, so for me, in my experience, and maybe Krista and even Kevin can attest to this, as far as like working in the photography filmmaking business, is we kind of have to put ourselves out there like through Instagram and have our work speak for itself. But a lot of your work, you can't show because it's owned by major studios. It's owned by big productions, right? So how do you get your name? And it's not like you can take a vertical scene and post it on Instagram and be like, hey, I did that of Jason Sudeikis and a scene with some of the other actors and just put it out there.
SPEAKER_01:Before he says it, he's not going to say this, but he's literally a legend. Like, in, like, the photo, video world. Before I even, like, met him, I had been hearing his name by, like, the top creators in town for, like, years. So, like, when I got to meet him, I was like, oh, this is the guy? Like, he's, like, crazy. So, yeah. So, he's, like... So, he's, like... No, so he's being humble, but, like, he's, like, everyone that's, like, really cold is, like, Cody's It's the best. So learn them out. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:First time I heard you, I was working with a company, and you would kind of put your name out there to maybe be the colorist. For anybody who doesn't know what that is, it's color correction, post-production for film and video work, stuff like that. But it was the first time I heard your name, and I kind of looked at your style, and I was like, wow. you know, I'd seen some of your stuff, but then I only saw so limited, right? Because the stuff you're working on is just like, you know, I saw, you know, some cell phone videos of you working on some bigger projects. I'm like, man, I wish I could see some of this stuff, but a lot of it is right. It's all owned by these big studios. So it's kind of, how does that, how, what's the challenge of that? Because you're working with different agencies, like it's much bigger.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. It's really weird. Um, Because the person who hires me is the director of photography. And that person is hired by the director. And it's just this long chain of people that get employed until it gets down to me. So I don't talk to anybody that works at Warner Brothers or Apple. Oh, of course not. I'll never meet them. No, never. But to get the call, right? Right. It's just been years of like... trying to get the call right like today somebody calls and the job is like a wedding and I've shot weddings and like tomorrow they're like hey you want to come be on this little commercial for grandma's cookies you know and I'm like great we'll go do it you know and it's just you know day after day like kind of showing up and being the best version of yourself you can be and you know and then when you talk to people having intentional conversations like hey like I know we're doing this this is what I want to do and like stuff like that it gets you like into the right conversations because you know Um, I talked to Kevin and I'm like, Hey Kevin, like, I'm trying to do this. And Kevin's like, Oh, I know like three people who do that. You should go talk to these people, you know? So you just never know. Cause like maybe Kevin's, maybe Kevin's the guy that needs to talk to you. Like you just, you never know who's going to be the person. Right. And so it's, it's like the networking and the community and how you can open the rooms. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And so one of the questions that I had for you was, you know, you mentioned that there is a line of people and basically one person gets hired and then the next person gets hired and then they hire people along the the chain and you said you got hired by the director of photography. And in that, have you worked with the director of photography before you came on for this particular role?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, and that's funny that you ask, uh, I've never worked with this director of photography before. Um, and she's, she's done a lot of stuff like Fargo and alien. Um, so she's, she's gets around, which is so legit with the capital L. So I'm super excited. to get the opportunity to work for her. And she also has like her DIT that she would probably prefer to hire out of LA where she's coming from. Of course. So there's always these like factors. So now you have to kind
SPEAKER_04:of almost prove yourself all over again.
SPEAKER_03:A little bit, especially being from the Midwest. It's crazy. Like all the time. We all know. Yeah. Right. It's like people come in and they get a phone call and they're like, so do you really know what's going on? And I'm like, right. I hope so. Cause I
SPEAKER_04:don't think people would put it in that business. People do not stick their neck out if they don't 100% because that I mean they really they really are putting I've worked I've worked in it before in the acting world I mean you don't get onto a set unless you are qualified invited I mean it's yes there's nepotism yes there's people that are you know certain levels but Everybody, what's interesting about working on those bigger budget things, those studio shows, films, documentaries, things like that, everybody on set is working. If you go to the grocery store, Not only the people that are at this, right? There's customers. Not everybody there is working. But when you are on a set, the craft service person is working. Even the person driving the golf cart is transportation for someone else. Everybody there is earning a check for something. Nobody is there shopping. Nobody is there on their day off. And if they are, it's because they work for the– everybody there is working. That's the interesting thing about– there could be 100– in 50 people, depending on how big the thing is. But I mean, it could be a huge crew because you've got lighting, gaffers, and people have to be on their spots because if something has to change immediately, it's all got to get struck and put back in place, back to one, all this stuff. So you can speak to that probably the most because you're there and you're a cog in this massive machine that's got a massive budget. And if you want to work again, you got to, number one, you got to be likable. I mean, you know, because you could be the greatest in the world, but they're like, I'd rather go with the second tier down because I don't want
SPEAKER_06:to
SPEAKER_04:work with that person. Because they make my life worse. And so, you know, I mean, like I said, you can kind of speak that, but I feel like that's another reason why you are so beloved in the film community is because I want to work with you. There might be a better DIT out there in the world, right? For sure. Right? Oh, yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. There's a lot of us. Hold on, but maybe not.
SPEAKER_04:Okay,
SPEAKER_06:maybe
SPEAKER_04:just as
SPEAKER_06:good, but maybe not better.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, but just as good. I love it. That's what I mean. Those are hard jobs to get, and that's a tough... You've got to build yourself into those things. You have to be patient, and you have to be willing to do some grunt work did you start as a PA
SPEAKER_03:no so it's interesting I want to double back because you were asking about connections but so I've never worked for this DP before and like repeat clients is something that does happen a lot in the film industry where you get in and that's what I've been what I'm working for is to get in good with some people, some DPs who are like, that's my boy. We're going, we're doing every movie together. Cause that would be, that'd be the dream, right? Where it's just, you know. And that leads to a
SPEAKER_07:consistent work environment that leads to having a solid life structure that you, that you're not saying yes to every little project that comes along because you're starving. You can then be pickier about what you take on and like having those bonds with people that can happen in every single field that you become that person for that group. We've been fortunate enough to, I mean, the majority of our work is repeat customers, which is insane because we work for a lot of small businesses. So that's nuts that they're opening new locations that then we become that person that comes in. We have a large client that's now franchising the early bird restaurant, which is now a chain. And we, I did the first one, which was gosh, nine or 10 years ago. And they now are franchising into Iowa they're talking about Las Vegas and Tennessee and Ohio and all over the place and we ask them at some point are you going to just start printing these things off like ideally that's what makes sense financially and they're like no this is part of the package like you are when we pitch to a franchisee it is this hand painted catalog they will come and do the murals within your spaces that we'll travel for they're like if you're willing to do it you are the person that will be doing this but that's because when they say jump we say how Every single time we have never missed a deadline for them for any client like that is just but we also work with a lot of like alley pointer we work with leaders construction, we are the hand painted artist for anything they need for any of their clients, whether it's a school, or a hotel, or an office building co working space. But that's because they know that we'll show up. We're covered with insurance. We have a team that can get it done by deadline. And it's going to look exactly like what they ordered. So if they want to branch out and work with someone new, that's great. But that's them rolling the dice, which is with us, it's a guaranteed return on investment. So... that reputation of having the people that know that they can rely on you and that you will come through and that you will say how high that is so important. And if you are, like you were saying earlier about your, your temperament, how are you to work with? There are a million more talented artists in Omaha than myself who, I'm really good.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe not.
SPEAKER_07:I think that I look up to many, many, many other artists, their creativity, their skill set, I believe is elevated from where I'm at. But the thing is, is that I can get the invoice over in time. I can get the contract. So like they can do better art, but the client knows that we're the package that gets the business side of things. And when it's time is money. And maybe they get a better product from someone else, but they don't know if it's going to be in three weeks or three months. And that is important. So reputation is everything. And good news travels fast, but bad news travels faster. So if you have a few bad, you know, experiences with people. And
SPEAKER_01:kind of to your point, like growing up playing like sports, someone might be a better, someone might be faster, someone might be stronger. But like people rate things on the overall package. So like just because one attribute is better than the other doesn't make them the best. I think you have to take it as a whole.
SPEAKER_06:It's a lot of things that factor in. I think if we were to sum up just some of what we talked about, I think there is a level of consistency that has to be there. People need to know what it is that they're going to be getting. I do think that there's that level of likability that is there. I also think people being familiar with you makes a difference. You start building community. They know they can count on you. It just makes it that like you can create a product that they're trying to have get executed, right? So like, as you said, like when you are dealing with as the projects get bigger, there is higher risk when it comes to the amount of money and the amount of time and all the people's schedules who had to come together to make it happen. We don't always have a lot of time to be able to get you caught up. We need people we know we can depend on. We can have a team that is there, right? And so like one of the things that I would say is actually really similar to what was just said is how do I show up as my best consistently. How do I stay honest with myself about who it is that I am, what it is that I can do, and make sure that I'm trying to stay in line with that consistently because I think you pinpointed something that I just want to bring out even more is that I think sometimes to get into the best rooms, you're often invited. To get into the best rooms, you're often invited. It's not always just like these open calls, national calls, and now you're competing against 5,000 people who also put their stuff in. It's generally somebody calls you, somebody said your name, somebody says, come to this thing with me, and you meet somebody there. It's like an invite is attached in some capacity. And so it's like, what does it look like for you to just show up simply as your best self, be able to speak to who it is that you are, what it is that you're about, what it is that you want to do in letting that carry you not trying to say how do I meet this next person that person how do I treat the people I'm around really well and how do I treat myself well by knowing who it is that I am and showing up in that capacity consistently
SPEAKER_07:yep and whether it's a big corporate client or whether it's a young woman that's just opening a small bakery do you treat both of them with the same amount of respect the same amount of time management like across the board because anyone could that big corporate client that that might be their little sister. And when you treat her with the respect that you would show somebody with the big paychecks, then they're like, you know what? I'm going to call them because that's a very, they feel like they can trust. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And they all matter, right? I take on this mindset of, you know, People's time, effort and energy matters. Yes. Like just period. Right. So like whether it's a, it's a larger corporate client and say, they're saying, you know, we're going to pay you$10,000 to come out for something. And you have a person that's not even a nonprofit yet, but just wanting to start a nonprofit and they're having a small event. And they said, well, we can give you$150. Right. Even, even whatever it is, if you decide to say yes, you have said yes. Yes. And like their time matters because that$10,000 is easy or hard for the corporate client. And that$150 may be extremely hard for that person who just asked for you to come in. And you're like, that's$150. It's so below my thing. If you said yes, you said yes. I don't care if your normal fee is$10,000. If
SPEAKER_04:you said yes, for whatever reason, you need
SPEAKER_06:to live up to your
SPEAKER_04:standard. It's a bigger risk for those smaller clients too. You have to create a new standard. And on the different side of the coin, Krista's work, here's the thing, unless return clients Because a lot of weddings, unless they, you know. Oh, yeah. You don't, you know, return clients are really, right? I mean, if you have a return client, which have you?
SPEAKER_02:Siblings.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, aside from just like. Right, there's, right. Well, aside
SPEAKER_04:from like. Family members, family members.
SPEAKER_05:Weddings, like they get married, they have babies, they have a whole circle. A whole circle. Yeah, that's different. Yeah, that's different. But no, I have not had a couple.
SPEAKER_04:The person they come back and get married. My joke is I'll always be there for the next, I'll be there for the next one. Of course. I'll see you to the next one. It's a dumb joke. They always laugh because they know I'm being a fool.
SPEAKER_01:Before
SPEAKER_00:camera,
SPEAKER_06:we
SPEAKER_01:were
SPEAKER_06:talking about how wedding photographers... That is a wild
SPEAKER_01:joke. We were talking about how wedding photographers are experts in reading the room. So maybe how does that translate to other things?
SPEAKER_05:I think also just being like the expert noticer like just the art of noticing and just like watching things unfold I don't know if that answers your question I feel like
SPEAKER_07:that's part of a creative process because I mean whether you're doing a mural for a community with a group of a committee that is speaking up to what they want to see or whether you're at a wedding and even though the bride and groom might be you know dancing on the dance floor but then their kids or little brother and sister over here having a moment you've got to have your head on a swivel that everybody's experience at that wedding is important. Like photos from my wedding, My favorites are not the ones of me and my husband. It's the one where I'm pinning the flowers on my brother-in-law and my mother-in-law. They're the ones of all the kids at the s'mores bar, you know, like getting their stuff.
SPEAKER_04:And stuff maybe you didn't get to experience firsthand. No. And
SPEAKER_07:I used to do wedding florals. So being in the wedding business also. And anytime I would meet with a bride and they're like, so, you know, what is, I don't know how much to budget for all this stuff. And I was like, a thousand percent, put your money. into a photographer or videographer. I was like, I'm saying cut my budget. And put the money into the photographer because they're going to catch things that you don't see. Your flowers, there's going to be good photos of them. There's going to be good photos and then they die. This is what, when you are struggling 10 years from now and you want to go back and look at your photo album and remember why you did this and come back to those moments, you need to have the photos. So that is just like, I get chills when I talk about it because I've had so many conversations with floral clients. Put the money in photography. That is, that is... That is for seeing through other eyes that you didn't get to see those moments. That's so important.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I think it goes back to, like, the experience that you were talking about. Because, like, I'll be... probably halfway through a wedding and I have people come up to me and they're like, you're doing such a great job. I'm like, how do you know this? How
SPEAKER_00:do
SPEAKER_05:you know I'm not just botching the whole day out? It goes back to the experience. My lens cover. Oh my God. How do they know, right? Or someone
SPEAKER_07:can be very professional but not personable. Part
SPEAKER_06:of that is the job. It's showing up and being somebody who makes me and feel comfortable as they're having, you know, history like put down in time. Like I think that is part of the job because somebody might be a good photographer, but if they make everybody in the room uncomfortable, it kind of, you know. Are
SPEAKER_07:you the photographer that's going to go get grandma and help her get up and then position her and say like, do you feel comfortable? Let's get her a chair and make sure that she's, but those are the, those are the photos you look at. And like, those are the ones that are fleeting because like, especially with family members, you don't know how long you're going to have them around. So really including that personality. I
SPEAKER_06:want to say like that personality thing is true for anybody who works with clients to make sure that you're creating a hospitable environment for anybody that you're working with, any team that you're working with. Like we talked about, it's useful for like your growth and career growth, but also it's really essential that you realize when you are working with other people that it's not just about you. I have had creative projects literally be break down because the videographer does not want to collaborate with anybody that's there they have a bad attitude and not only are you like I'm not going to work with this person again it actually messes up yes what it is that you're making like at the exact same time right and so it's just like that is a part of the job it's not just like what is the product that you're making if you're the one making it on some level you are attached to that project from the time you say say yes to the time you're like, here's all of the materials, all the assets, everything, all the way down to the invoices, right? And even something that I'm trying to balancing it better at is like when you get to the point that you can bring in other people who fill out the skill sets that maybe you don't have right like I know it takes me a little while to get the invoices back out and things like that bring somebody in right who has the abilities that you have in those areas that you're really great bring in somebody else who has those other skill sets that are great to help round you out so that you can improve your overall process because people are not just looking at the output they're looking at the total
SPEAKER_04:package and that can be extremely hard to do because finding the people that fit your sort of you know that want to work that want to do this thing you know and it's not just like the actual work itself it's also I want to work it's it's the culture it's like I want to work with them these are the people I want to be around like it took me forever I found Nate thank God you know what I mean and then you know and then I found Matt and you know and or they found me I don't know
SPEAKER_07:I mean it's just like any relationship you might have a lot of things in common with someone and you might say well this is the partner I want to be with because we have so much in common. It's so wonderful. But that doesn't necessarily round out your relationship. My husband is a mechanic. He is a meticulous, motivated, organized, just to the nines. That is a thousand percent not me. I get to a wall and I was like, this looks great. Let's paint it. And he's like, okay, we're going to project the image. We're going to make sure it's level. We're going to have to level this up a little bit over here. But that's because, and he started working with me over COVID because I couldn't have my regular people that worked with me that I loved collaborating with but were a little bit more like me that were just the creative fun painters but he comes in and he's just like okay well we haven't got these estimates out we're going to do these emails first thing this morning you're going to go to your appointment then we're going to go finish this job so that is so important that you try to figure out how to find people that round out your skill set because if you just have more of you I mean,
SPEAKER_06:like, you might be great, but there might be gaps, right? Like, it might be great, but there might be gaps. And, like, it's so important to also find people that you can truly be your most authentic self with so that you can be honest, like, really honest about what am I good at? Like, what am I really good at? What should I be focusing the majority of my time on? So you're saying I should call
SPEAKER_00:my wife?
SPEAKER_06:I
SPEAKER_00:mean, maybe. She can't leave me, right? No, everybody does it, but that's the thing. It's like, just because
SPEAKER_06:you work well in certain spaces No, but people might want to bring on their friends. They might want to bring on spouses. And like you heard me say, you got to be really honest about what am I good at and what are you good at? And does it really fit together like a puzzle piece? Because just as we get along really well, doesn't mean that we don't have the same weaknesses, right? And so like finding people who truly do balance that out and who also can take your personality that can fit the culture. And like when you are somebody who's bringing other people on, You get to determine, okay, well, does it fit my culture, right? Versus if they're getting brought on, they have to be able to fit into the culture at least for a certain amount of time. I think Taylor can really speak to
SPEAKER_04:this because the bottom of this is like culture is everything. I mean, we talked about this before. You can go to a million places here in town and have a better drink or a better sandwich or whatever it is. But if the people behind it are not personal, the service is bad or whatever it is, the sandwich is amazing. It's great. It's great food. Number one, it takes forever. They make me feel bad about it. It's whatever it is. There's all those things, but I mean, culture, I think, at the Maven Social is of utmost importance. It's
SPEAKER_02:always the people make your own business. I mean, if you lost all of your employees, that bar wouldn't be the same bar. If you lost all of your employees, that restaurant would not be the same restaurant anymore. It's always about the people that make the business. I always say that we're not in the liquor industry, we're in the people industry. It's cliche, but it's very true. It's very
SPEAKER_04:true. 100%. And challenges, we'll go around and kind of talk about what we're working on like right now, is there anything specific that, you know, either Maven or, uh, Alice and, and, and because you're, you're between, um, what are the brands that you're between?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm the GM at a Wicked Rabbit and I also run Alice. Have you
SPEAKER_04:guys been to Wicked Rabbit's bar too?
SPEAKER_02:It's cool.
SPEAKER_05:Is that right next to Hotel Dockery? Okay. Yes, I have
SPEAKER_04:been. Can you
SPEAKER_05:explain that
SPEAKER_02:a little bit? Uh, yeah. So it's, uh, basically the first speakeasy in Omaha realistically for that, that, uh, aspect.
SPEAKER_04:Define speakeasy.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, so speakeasy is going to be a hidden bar with a secret entrance, realistically. So speakeasies came back in the Prohibition era where you couldn't openly drink. You could if you were really rich, and that was basically about it back in the day. That's kind of like today, right? Yeah. So speakeasies were specifically a hidden bar, typically with a false entrance, or it would say, like, dental office, and you go in the back and there's a bar kind of essence. So Wicked Rabbit's right downtown, connected to Hotel Deco. We've got a liquor store in the front, and then it's got a secret door that opens up. So it's kind of fun because Ken is one of my favorite people in the entire world. Six foot, 12, Thor looking guy, mohawk. That'd
SPEAKER_04:be seven foot, right? Six foot, 12.
SPEAKER_02:Six foot, 12 is seven foot. Let me do the math on that. Jail cell by himself, just blasting punk music. You walk in, you see Ken. And you ask for the Wicked Rabbit. You're not quite sure where you are. The secret door opens up and they've got great staff at the back to take great care of you. Beautiful ambiance. There's just that dichotomy of that front area, punk music, and then back area where it's just all pristine, taken care of, top notch kind of quality.
SPEAKER_07:I gotta say, I don't drink often, like a few times a year. I love going to that
SPEAKER_02:place. I've got great non-alcoholic cocktails, too. That's great. I love it. It's something for
SPEAKER_07:everybody. That place is a thousand percent the experience.
SPEAKER_04:I know that there is, obviously, with Through the Looking Glass and Wicked Rabbit, with those names and then you've got Alice. What's going on with those names? Is there a theme that we need to know about
SPEAKER_02:here? There's a little something there and like that's kind of the creative aspect about it too is it means whatever it means to you.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So of course it is related a little bit to Alice in Wonderland. Let's be honest for the same time like none of our spots are like specifically Alice in Wonderland themes. That way it just has that creative aspect. It's whatever it means to you. Wicked Rabbit specifically is kind of like chasing the rabbit down the rabbit hole to go ahead and see where that leads to. So just kind of following your own passion and Find something new. Just being creative in your own right. Trying new things. Learning new things. But yeah, especially our aspect, just with trying new things, there's always something else. I mean, with hop on the walls right here, I've got about three to 400 bottles. If you mixed all those together with three different ingredients, I mean, you have thousands, millions of different options. So that's the fun part. There's always something new out there with seasonality coming in, fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, stuff like that as well, too. My staff always about once every week, I probably get about eight different cocktails my staff want to make. So we'll kind of go through that like, OK, this is great. How do I make it better? Okay. This is awful. Let's go from in this direction. Um, and it also comes into an aspect as far as like, Hey, uh, we need a citrus cocktail. We need a vodka cocktail. We need a whiskey cocktail. So that way it gets us a place to start and outline and like outline and then kind of go from there as well too. And just kind of watch what develops. And, um, that's, that's the fun part is just kind of watching what develops known to your medium, especially all you guys know that's extremely important. Um, and just kind of seeing what develops out of there. Uh, cause sometimes you'll mix two different things together. Sambuca is a licorice liqueur. You got pineapple juice. Both of those things are very specific flavor contexts. When you put them together, it's amazing. It's weird. You wouldn't think that would ever
SPEAKER_04:taste good. It's like paint. You put two different colors together and you get something different. Okay, fair. But she just, she had
SPEAKER_07:that little black licorice
SPEAKER_04:and pineapple. I like
SPEAKER_07:pineapple. Why ruin it with black
SPEAKER_04:licorice? Think of the paint job Okay, okay. I
SPEAKER_07:have an experience just like that. When I was working in Exarvon Village, we did a mural that actually Kevin came out and did some filming on. And we had almost the entire background painted, all the colors that were in it. And Jay Nottle came out and took a look at it. And he's like, this looks really washed out. Can we like maybe pump up the level of the color? And I don't know how you guys feel, but when you're almost done with the project. And someone says, can we just like, but it's also like one of the biggest developers in town. He's like the guy that writes the checks. And so I was like, ah, but you have to know how to talk to that person because you have to acknowledge what they're saying and not just say, trust the process. You have to like explain it, but also validate their commentary on it. So I said, okay, let me just do a black outline on this. You can see how the color is going to pop once this happens. So, like you said those are two different things that someone might not like it but then you taste it and see the whole process and once the black outline was on it he's like these colors don't even look the same anymore and it's like it's all the contrast it's the contrast with the black so but you have to validate people's comments on that because that also stops you and says like okay well maybe they are too washed out it's good to make them feel like their commentary matters Like
SPEAKER_04:no matter who they are. 100%.
SPEAKER_07:100%.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Kristen, tell me, you know, you do destination, like you do destination weddings, right? The difference between that and like, you know, just something, you know, in your, like, is there a project or when I say project, they're all projects because it's still, but like, has there been an event or a wedding that like stands out for you? Like something in your, you know, what would you say? Kind of, you know, just to give you a little, just give me an opportunity to, you know, like, was it, was it a destination wedding? Was it a, you know, first time you brought the drone out? Like what, like what, what's something that you've worked on recently that you're pretty proud of?
SPEAKER_05:Gosh. Tough question. I'm pretty proud of most of them. Of course.
SPEAKER_00:Of course you
SPEAKER_04:are. Of course you are. You should,
SPEAKER_07:yeah, yeah. All of your clients should feel really good that you said that. Of course. Because, like, it's not just this one big one that makes you feel good. Like, all of them make you feel
SPEAKER_04:good. And I don't want you to single out by giving a name. I'm just saying, like, you know, I went this way and I tried this thing. And, you know, I guess what I'm trying to get at is, like, was there something where it clicked for you? Like, you know, maybe you did a Colorado wedding or maybe you did something
SPEAKER_05:similar. He's 15 at his own wedding. No, I'm not. I
SPEAKER_04:was just on a small farm. I was on a small farm. We were like in the mountains right there.
UNKNOWN:Okay, maybe I'll ask. Yeah, you might.
SPEAKER_04:I'm trying to think. That's how you verbally paint the whole picture for us. Yeah, exactly. Listen, this is my show. Is your wedding
SPEAKER_07:photo going to be like the thumbnail for this talk? Oh my God. Oh my
SPEAKER_04:God. I love my wife. I love my wife. No, no. But yeah, I mean like I've just from, you know, cause we're all, we're all like elaborating on these big day and then, you know, I mean, you're, you're modest with your work. So I'm trying to, you know, Oh
SPEAKER_05:man, I'm a modest person. I don't know if you know.
SPEAKER_04:I do. I do. I do. The
SPEAKER_05:most
SPEAKER_07:humble person
SPEAKER_04:ever. But that's what we love you. We love you. But your work is really, I mean, it really does speak for itself. And so I just want to give, you know, was there a time where you're like, yes, I know I can do this for a living? I mean, because I think all of us have been to that point. Was there a time where it's like, you know, I did this thing and boom, I got the pictures back and it was just like, I can do this.
SPEAKER_05:You know, for the longest time, I didn't know if this was like even a thing to be able to be an entrepreneur. Like I was like, I went to art school at UNL and like no shade on the professors, but they were just like starving artists and they put this mindset in your head. And I'm like, Okay. So like I hired my wedding photographer and I was like, he obviously did it full time at the time. And like, I was just like, I have no clue where to even begin. Um, so for probably 10 years, this was my hobby and it wasn't until COVID where like everything like smacked me in my face. I had some pretty big life events happen and finally got serious. And I was like, I, I, I want to do something for myself and put myself first. I was telling I'm tired of building someone else's empire. So this doesn't answer your question, but I'm going down a rabbit
SPEAKER_00:hole. It was really
SPEAKER_05:actually a mindset shift that my business, I hired a business coach, got really serious and they helped me see that it was possible. And like earlier I was talking about staying curious and, um, being open minded. It, it was all about my mindset. It had nothing to do with the work that I was producing, that I was capable of it because I was very capable of it. I shot my first wedding in high school. why would you put a high schooler in charge of a wedding? Just saying. But anyways,
SPEAKER_06:so.
SPEAKER_05:They believed in you. I mean, they were my aunt and uncle now. They believed in me. Nepotism. I know, I know. But yeah, no, it wasn't like this one project. Like I've been a photographer all my life pretty much. So I don't
SPEAKER_04:know. You decided, you made that, you made the decision was like, I'm going to do this for me. Yeah. And then you saw other people doing it too, I'm sure. It's like, I can do that. It's just the commitment. And that
SPEAKER_05:community too, being able to have that support system and peers in the industry, whether they're photographers, videographers, florists, just being able to have people that you can bounce your ideas or your problems and questions off of, having that community is just so important. So it wasn't the work that told me I could do this. It was almost you. People were coming to me. I was just
SPEAKER_03:going to say, I was an in-house videographer for like two years, just an employee at an architecture firm. And it was my friends who were doing it freelance that were like, you have to quit your job.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:you
SPEAKER_07:know the quote like be the person that you needed when you were a teenager yes be the person that you needed when you were a creative that didn't want to just continue contributing to someone else's bigger picture like that's what we need to be to each other now and i just i have to say like talk about money It is important to talk about money with other creatives. It is absolutely this like, oh, if you talk about money, then it's because you sold out and you're only concerned about getting paid. Pay artists. We are small businesses ourselves. It is a job. It is a career. It is an absolute legitimate way to pay your bills, to pay your mortgage, buy a car, pay for your kid's college. It is not a hobby. Just because we enjoy what we do, that just means we're fortunate. That doesn't mean it's not a job. Right. 100%. And I just think that when somebody is talking, like if there's a photographer out there undercutting everyone's pricing, there are ways to call them out or to educate the community on it. We've had a lot of experiences that people will say, we want a mural on the side of this building and we give them a price. And they're like, oh my God, I had no idea it was going to cost that much. That doesn't mean we're too expensive. That means that's the standard.
SPEAKER_04:She's paid by big art, by the way. She's
SPEAKER_07:paid
SPEAKER_04:by big art. What
SPEAKER_07:is that?
SPEAKER_04:I just
SPEAKER_07:think it's so, so important to talk about those finances because there's other mural artists in Omaha and around the country that are always going to say, but I just enjoy what I do. So I don't want to overcharge people. Like, but if you charge a going rate, then you can pay your artists more. We pay top dollar to everyone that comes and paints with us. We've got about 10 subcontractors that work for us every year. It's our most expensive expensive bill that we write off. Write offs are important too. It is the most, the largest amount of money that we write off every year is our subcontracted labor. But we expect damn near perfection from everyone. I don't want you making TikToks all day while you're working with us. I don't want you texting your boyfriend. I want you on the wall working, having a good time. We're going to buy you ice cream when the day's done. We're going to give you a great pay.
SPEAKER_00:No,
SPEAKER_07:no, no. I just think it's so important. So when we hire people to come work with us, that might be a fine artist that are not like a working commercial artist. We'll say, let's talk about estimating. How are you bidding your projects? How are you estimating your projects? What type of contracts are you using? How are you invoicing a client? Because how you invoice shows your level of professionalism that you can say, this is how much it is. I'm willing to be flexible to a degree. but I'm a professional artist. This is my business. This is my, you know, paperwork with my header on it, my logo on it. I'm legitimate. We are all legitimate. Whatever we're doing and creating, we're legitimate and deserve to be paid
SPEAKER_01:for. Can I ask a question? For context, I'm 26. I feel like... Maybe. You can be my son.
SPEAKER_06:I feel
SPEAKER_01:like I'm in this weird position where I was lucky to have a lot of older friends who are artists, commercial, give you game. And this advice is very valid to people that have the skills. I think sometimes it's like people that don't have the skills hear that and it's like, oh, I need to just invoice when they haven't done anything yet.
SPEAKER_07:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And it's a weird transition of like, I felt this. Okay, I'm just doing this to get good, get good, get good. And then there's this gray area where like, okay.
SPEAKER_07:When can you start getting paid for what you're creating? There's a lot of people out there that are artists to whatever level and they say, well, how much should I charge for this mural? It's my second mural. It's like, well, you shouldn't charge what I'm charging because I've got 30 plus years of doing this behind me. So there is a level of... if you are new, that can be on a scale of your building a portfolio.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that is... It comes to the community, though. Yes, you
SPEAKER_07:have to talk about it.
SPEAKER_03:I'll say, I am the most courageous when I talk to my colleagues about how to charge their clients. I'm like, turn it up to 11. Don't let them give an
SPEAKER_04:inch. But then when it's time for you to invoice them, I'm like, oh, yes. That's why I'm
SPEAKER_06:like, let's go back to what I said. I had to look in the camera. Be willing to advocate for yourself and try not to be in the mindset of lack and desperation as you are thinking through how you should be able to advocate and communicate what it is that you need right and it is important I really like I was trying to give time but I'm like I have to jump in on what you said about like when you were at university there were people who were there but they were coming from more of a starving mindset a starving artist mindset it's It's so imperative that you get yourself in communities with people who are doing what you want to do or who have done what you want to do. Mentorship is so important. Whether it's through a coach, whether it's through a friend, whether it's through a family member, you have to get people around you who can really see that your dream can be realized. And they can help you break that down from, I like to say, hard skills and soft skills. skills they can take your your skills and be able to merge them together because you may have the talent right but do you have the business acumen to understand how to be able to go from a hobbyist to someone who is building their livelihood off of it and being around people who see that your dream can be realized if you put these things you know this this this in place right it's imperative that you get people around you who can put you up on game who can talk to you in real ways that says like Like, listen, I know you want to charge what I'm charging. You may be better served by charging this, right? That doesn't mean, like, you're charging, you know, one-tenth of what I'm charging. It just may be, I like to say, how do we make it a fast yes and a slow no, right? Like, staying inside of... The
SPEAKER_03:pocket.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, like, how is it that, like, I feel good, right? But also, it's not so high that somebody's like, that's preposterous at the exact same time. But how do you balance that? Balance
SPEAKER_04:that.
SPEAKER_06:Finding industry standards is
SPEAKER_04:useful. That's where I've found the most difficulty is, you know, on that tight rope of balancing when to go up here and go over here. And, you know, some of my invoices I send are not invoices but proposals. A lot of times I'm giving them options. You know, like most of us, you give them options. You've got the, you know, the low, middle, and high. And you give them that sort of range like, you know, everybody does. But it's like... you know that middle is usually the sweet spot because you know they're kind of getting everything for the big it's just you know i might not crew up as much here i might you know you know take an extra thing here or whatever but that middle range is usually kind of but that that is that is a huge huge jump when you're doing that and then sometimes i also feel like that's where this like creative thing is like well I'm probably still going to give them everything that huge, you know, in my bigger package. Anyways, it's like, I want to make sure that, you know, my work is being whatever, but I, I want them, I guess I want them to kind of see the different tiers. Like this is, this is kind of where we feel. This is how many hours you get for this is how many hours you get for that. And that's, and, and, It's definitely a learning curve for sure. I
SPEAKER_03:would also say just reach out. The person you're looking up to whose work is amazing and you would never think you could be at that level or whatever, you can just talk to those people. I think that's how we all got where we are. In the reverse, people will Talk to you. That's why I
SPEAKER_04:sent you guys all messages. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I actually do look up to all of you in very, you know, in, in, you know, in different ways. I mean, shoot, I've known Taylor now for six months since we did the thing last year. And ever since then, I was like, dude, this guy's an artist. I mean, he's very good at what he does and managing all this stuff. And Chris, I've known you, you know, for years, uh, working wedding stuff. And I'm like, I'm not booking any weddings these days. What's your secret, you know? And, and I don't know anything about what you do, but I respect, you know, all the stuff you've done with Luli and, and, and some of the stuff with early bird and all the, all the different, all I don't know anything about it, but I want to know more. Everyone I know wants to see your stuff. I've been thinking and I've
SPEAKER_05:seen your stuff, I guess. If you're with Early Bird.
SPEAKER_04:Each one of you have something for me that I want to... I don't want to verbatim steal it, but I'm going to borrow some of y'all's art. But that builds a bigger community. And it's great to see yourself
SPEAKER_07:recognized in something. I've seen my murals in the background of Kevin's photos. And that is just like... Like, oh my God, that girl's so sexy. Like, look at her. But then it's just like pattern and color behind her, which I'm getting chills saying it. Like, I love your work so much, Kevin. Like,
SPEAKER_01:you're just so
SPEAKER_04:good. Kevin, I want to know how you get motivated to do, like you're a, you know, I know we don't have a ton of time. We could sit here all freaking day. But I do want to wrap it up. But I want to get to kind of the heart of why we're here. And it's like getting motivated to create. Like, I think you're one of the most motivated, like single creator It's unbelievable. I see all the stuff that you're putting out. What's your motivation? What inspires you to just be creative and go do it? Are you winging it? What are we
SPEAKER_01:doing? I've got two things. First, for his thing, just for young people, It's easy to be a mentor if you're doing it. Because it's easy for me to jump in and give you advice if I see that you've tried. If you don't try, it's hard for me to give you any feedback. But if you're doing the work and learning, it's easy to guide you. That makes sense, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, totally. Because you don't really know where to start, right? If you're doing them, it's like, whoa. Someone says,
SPEAKER_07:I want to be a muralist. How do I do that? That's
SPEAKER_01:not. Yeah, exactly. How long does it take? Start from scratch. For motivated, I think I'm very delusional. I think I can do it. Yeah, like, if I think... So, mushrooms... No, like, I just, like... That's not what he's saying. Different conversation. That's not what he's saying. I think, like... That's not true. I don't know why, but, like, my parents just, like, instilled in me so much confidence that, like, I think I could do, like, whatever.
SPEAKER_00:So, like, I'm
SPEAKER_01:doing... I think everyone does themselves a disservice if they have an idea and don't do it. So, like... What motivates me is like, There's so many ideas I've had in the past that I thought it, didn't do it, and I see it online. And then I get so irritated. So now it's like, if I think it, I need to limit the time between like thinking it. Ideation, execution. And you
SPEAKER_07:said that with doing this.
SPEAKER_04:That's my, and that's partial. I heard that from somebody, maybe Peter McKinnon did a thing where he was like, the more time you have in between ideation and execution, it's probably not going to happen. Or if it does happen, this execution, it's going to be watered down. Because there's so much time between that you've lost your nerve or whatever and that's why I wanted to do this so I'll keep doing it with different people at different places it's a lot of work and it's a lot of stuff but this is one of the best conversations I've ever had like seriously
SPEAKER_01:and honestly the young me if I was like 12 and had the camera gear I had I would be shooting every day so it's like I'm not gonna shoot and I have all this stuff and I know the cool people it's like I'm gonna keep doing it and then the third thing as like a professional the more I find if I have an editing job and it sucks but I'm doing it for the check Yeah. I'm going to hate editing if I don't the same day do something cool. Got you. So to avoid burnout, I just have to create more stuff I care about. So that's kind of how it helps. To
SPEAKER_07:piggyback on what you said, having an attitude of gratitude that you're just grateful that you get to be a creative too. So when you come up with something, you need to just work on it and creative and put it out there because that is also just building your joy in what you're doing. Like
SPEAKER_01:now I can hit up whoever and they're down to shoot. It's like, I'm going to use that. All
SPEAKER_06:right. Okay, I feel like that was my segue to come in. Yes, I explicitly train and teach on this because I think these are some of like the keys of life is like your joy really is what can bring you life. And when you step into your joy, that's how you step into your light. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, when I hear us talking about like, you heard me say earlier, like iterations and you say like, Like how do you shorten that gap between an idea and actually producing it? I think that space is called inspired action, right? So how do you take the things that like build like passion and joy and you do it through inspired action. I mean, I think that shows up differently for everyone. It's when you get that idea, you get that spark, you get that light that comes out. You don't just sit in it. You take a level of internal psychological safety mixed with confidence Confidence mixed with understanding whatever skill sets that you have, whatever strengths you have. Everybody had some strengths and you roll with that.
SPEAKER_04:You just get it done. Do you research? Do you go like look at examples? Do you try to find sort of reinforce? Yes and no. Yes and no.
SPEAKER_06:Yes and no. Right. Yes and no. I'm always looking for reinforcements. Well, and I think that's what can get people really caught up. Right. Because I think sometimes when you start looking at those reinforcements. Yeah. You get caught. You get caught in the imposter syndrome. You get caught in like just like the research of it you get caught in like oh it's got to be bigger bigger it's got to be to be this good it's got where it's just like just get that iteration out like so you know I'm a big believer at this point in my life of you know you learn by doing right more so than me like you know I really love to be a muralist right and some people might say well I'm going to just start following a bunch of muralists I'm going to like get books I'm going to take a class like me now would be like take inspired action get a canvas get a poster and like make something go get a couple of cans right and like get out there and just like get a YouTube video up and like just do it like learn by doing when you have ideas be willing to take inspired action and when you take those inspired action if you notice you light up right it gives you some joy keep going and then you'll start to meet more people you'll start to get you'll start to get jobs people will notice what it is that you're doing they'll notice there's something a little bit different about what you bring like yeah like you can make things as good as like that person can make things but there's something about that energy yes like that's there and like i gotta have some if you
SPEAKER_07:exude joy and pride in what you're doing and that is attractive to people i think i think i've gotten jobs not because i was the least expensive like a lot of times will be more expensive because we've got so many years experience. When I walk into somebody's restaurant or business, it's like, oh my God, these windows, this lighting in here is bananas. Like this just has such a great flow right back to where you want this mural. Like this is just perfect. When you show as much joy for what you're doing, for your clients and for your own creative self, people feed off
SPEAKER_06:of that. They feel it and are drawn to you. It's back to that experience. You
SPEAKER_01:feel it. People can feel it, but it
SPEAKER_04:also comes out in the execution
SPEAKER_01:too, right? The work itself. So practical advice. Last year, I did 87 days. I posted a video a day. I shot it and made
SPEAKER_00:it.
SPEAKER_01:Unfortunately, you don't have time to overthink. So I think it's kind of like a muscle. If you do it every day You can't be bad. So now the muscle of like an idea of executing. So it becomes habit,
SPEAKER_04:right? It's just a forced habit type situation. I have no
SPEAKER_07:discipline for that. I have probably 50 to 60 jobs that we've completed sitting on my phone. Photos, time-lapse video. I hate doing social media videos because I overthink the paragraph. Talk about how I feel about the person and what I saw them go through. And I just can't post, just get it out.
SPEAKER_01:I did a consequence. If I didn't post it, I had to give my friend five dollars. that's
SPEAKER_06:what a mentor like that's what a mentor or a coach can be is an accountability partner and one of the things i really want to make sure that i stay uh in this moment around um accountability partners whether that's through like friends mentors or coaches coaches can change your life i want to be very very clear about this. Coaches can change your life and You do like in the space of like, how do you like shorten that gap? Do not get caught up trying to pay somebody$30,000 before you actually do the thing, right? A good coach is not gonna take your whole life savings, okay? Like be mindful of that. A good coach is not gonna take your whole life savings to do what it is that you want to do. First of all, always remember that you could just do it right now with whatever you have. can do it. A good coach may charge some for their time, but they are there because they care about you and they want to see you thrive in that capacity. They are not only utilizing you to pay everything to subsidize their whole lifestyle. So be mindful of that because I've seen that with just so many artists that like you think, oh, I need to get my knowledge up. I need to get my skill set up before I go out here and do it. And really what you can set yourself up for is getting taken advantage of and wasting a lot of time, not actually doing the things that light you up, that you So just like learn by doing, find other people who are doing what it is that you're doing, put some accountability in place, get some consistency, try to have a good vibe as you do it and like be as authentic as you can. And I think generally like we can all say stuff will work out on some level. Stuff will work out for you.
SPEAKER_05:You don't have to have it all figured out. And I can tell that you have listened to Gabby Bernstein. I don't know if you know who that is. I don't. Oh my gosh. You were talking about inspired action and I kept thinking of her words like inspired action clears my path. Gabby listens to her. Sorry, Gabby. I can't wait. Okay. Well, I guess I was wrong. I just kept hearing the Like when you were just like asking those questions, it's like, it will come to you. You have to like, the curiosity, the open mindset and being able to be like, take an idea if it hits you and sparks fly, you just run with it.
SPEAKER_04:Just
SPEAKER_05:like you did.
SPEAKER_04:And that's kind of what I'm working on now is I, you know, I want to be able to kind of develop this in conversations that can hopefully whoever sees it can have, you know, you know, they'll have their own questions. They can DM with different things like that. And I don't bring different subjects to whatever. I want to make it a big community thing. We can't get everybody in the room at the same time, but you know, so maturely you start to, kind of build a little bit of thing. But then, you know, I also think that I've, you know, stressing collaboration has always been, you know, when I'm by myself is when I struggle the most because I second
SPEAKER_07:guess myself. Isolate. I do. COVID was bad for creatives.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's where the delusion comes in. It's like, well, I think it's cool.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. That's enough. Yeah. Right. And I do, I do like some of the stuff that I do, but I, like you said, I got so many things on the back burner and I'm posting because i'm like nah because it's not it's not my haircut or how i look you know for for me it's like this sounds dumb this is too like i'm not i'm not
SPEAKER_01:yeah you can't do that don't discount yourself i know what i think
SPEAKER_05:your ego is getting in the way i
SPEAKER_04:see it i see it now i agree for sure no question that's another reason this is three free therapy that's what could
SPEAKER_01:happen what could happen is like if i make something today In a week, I'm gonna be better than today. So if I don't put it out this week, I'm gonna hate it because I'm better.
SPEAKER_05:You're stretching
SPEAKER_01:that muscle. So if you wait, you're kind of discounting yourself again. I'm
SPEAKER_07:learning so much.
SPEAKER_03:Sharon, I had a question for you really quick. So in the filmmaking world, it's totally different. If we don't have time, we don't come here. If you
SPEAKER_04:guys do, we do.
SPEAKER_03:I
SPEAKER_04:can't afford
SPEAKER_03:them. So there's like this idea of free work. Um, cause I know what the whole business thing, and I just am curious what that translates for you guys, but we will go do free work. And, uh, because it's kind of just part of the industry a little bit. Yeah. And you have to manage very carefully with how you spend your time in that regard. Yes. Um, and especially at the bottom end with getting started, that's the easy foot in the door. Like I can show up on somebody's short film. Okay. I have a very good response
SPEAKER_07:to this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Please.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. So, um, Building your portfolio, yes, you're going to be lower cost or possibly even free, especially if it's for family or close friends or something. What I have done now, because there are still clients that I will give a friends and family discount to, but I will give them an invoice to say, this is a$3,000 mural that I am discounting to zero. for you. So if you hire another artist to come out and paint a mural of a similar size, it will be at least or around$3,000. So you're not just giving them something for free without an acknowledgement of what its value is. You are telling them, I'm doing a$10,000 mural for$5,000. If it's for a nonprofit, get that form for your taxes that you're doing a$5,000 donation. So that, that is basically like, that is what I tell people, especially when they're beginning is even if they're beginning and doing it for free, say, just so you know, the going rate in our area is going to be 15 to$20 beginning rate. a square foot for this mural I'm doing it for free but in the future and if you tell anyone else about this project Tell them they did give me a great deal, but they said the value is this much.
SPEAKER_05:Educating your clients. That way they don't go into
SPEAKER_07:it. Super quick. We did a big project for Red Oak, Iowa. They came to us a year previous. They said, this is what our budget is. This is the square footage right off the bat. It was like$4 a square foot. Can't do it. That's just not going to be able to happen. So instead of just saying, I can't do it. I said, here is a list of seven murals that we did, how much they were. So I was very transparent with what they cost square footage wise. Some of them were big clients. Some of them were smaller clients. And I was able to say to them, we could do this at a minimum of yada, yada. And he said, thank you. This guy, even though I told him, no, we couldn't do it for that price. He said, thank you so much. We didn't have a frame of reference for this. So what they did, we expected to never hear it. from them again God bless this town Red Oak you guys gotta go visit it's just beautiful people down there they fundraised another$10,000 to add to that budget reached back out to us even though we were the ones that said no and he said we love that you were patient you helped us understand what the value was and they said we value artists work we don't want to just find someone else to do it for our lower budget we want to make sure more people want to work with us. So then even though we still did it at a discount for them, they knew what the value was. We went there and did the biggest mural we've ever done. We stayed at that guy's house. They made us pancakes for breakfast. It took three weeks. It was almost 100 degrees outside the whole time. It was the most fulfilling project we ever did. They knew what the value was. They knew that we gave them a great deal. And it was such a beautiful result because it was an educate understanding of how that worked. But then we set a standard. Every other artist they hire, they know what the minimum needs to be.
SPEAKER_04:Such a good lesson in like, you know, it's a really easy thing.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But it can be easily overlooked as well. Yes. But be
SPEAKER_07:patient with people. Understand, like, people come, how much is a wedding bouquet? I mean, do you want three flowers or do you want a cascading piece? Like, do you want a wedding video or do you just want some family snapshots? There is such a wide range. Understand Understanding your customer is very important and educating them on what the standards are so yeah,
SPEAKER_01:this is very bad, but like I
SPEAKER_06:Feel
SPEAKER_01:like the free like just like the free filming thing, it kind of is like, for what? Like, unless you, I think you should do it for free if it's like, okay, I have this idea for a project and I will be able to use it for a portfolio to get me paid, it makes sense. And I think the film crews, they fall into a trap of like, they all work on this one project that no one sees, that doesn't really do anything.
SPEAKER_04:Don't tell these guys that. I know, that sounds bad. They work it
SPEAKER_01:for much. This is going huge. But it's only worth it if it's for experience or like it's for a portfolio. So if it's not going to fit into either of those, it's like, not really. Right. In my opinion, not worth it. Yep, it's...
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, so this is something that in my professional career, I have continually advocated for sustainability for artists. And so I've had the opportunity to be a senior executive, particularly my background is in opera. My original background is in opera and human resources and diversity, equity, inclusion, but really focused on belonging. And inside of this it's there is that space that you have to be willing and ready to teach people yes right and this is something that like as we are like being a starving artist is not acceptable just in general it's not it's not okay for anybody to be out here starving that's also working that doesn't even make sense to me um and inside of that we do have to be ready to teach people and we're teaching for our own we're teaching first ourselves right so splitting something like here's the valuation is you teaching yourself this is my valuation I feel comfortable passing to people. I'm teaching the other person that's on the other side. Like this is what you'd be thinking about in general when you're thinking about hiring people for this kind of work. But then also you're setting the standard for what comes after you, right? So it starts to build up the industry standard. And this is something that we all have to do together as a creative community that we're still doing in 2025, teaching people the value of art. And everything has brought a whole nother conversation. We start talking about like AI and like what that brings. example we're not going to get into that right now like teaching people the value of art and so when you have the opportunity to speak up to advocate to help set standards that you make sure that you're doing it in a way that it serves not just you but it serves how we are thinking about artists and creatives in the industry because I am not like I think I'm not a big fan of free work okay like I'm just not a fan of free work just in general so definitely the in kind domain is a fantastic one that it was a while before somebody put me on game with that one so I like I feel like a gym was really dropped um and in that another thing that I have utilized is if you can't pay like what the amount is but it's something that I want to give like having some type of honorarium that's there um it should not be that you have adults coming out completely for free unless everybody's doing it for free right so like if we're just having I like to call creative jam sessions so like or you know yeah so like if we're just having a jam session like Like, you know, I'm modeling, you're shooting, let's do it. If this is happening and we're both doing this for free, then like, okay, we're just having fun together. And like, and building our portfolios at the same time. It's like an educational play. Yeah, but if there's money happening at any, yes, that thing like, you should be passing that down. And that goes for something when people think of like the creative arts, like photography, dance, visual arts. But even you heard me say, I'm a speaker. So like, even if you, and like speaking as an art, like I want to be very clear about this, but like if there's like a conference and you want a speaker to come in for free, but you're charging tickets for the conference, like if there's money that's happening at any point, then that means everyone who's involved should be getting something. Because even if it's, you're coming out for an hour, but we want to make sure that you get$25 for that hour of your time. If they
SPEAKER_07:offer, even if it's a low amount, it just shows that they know that you're valuable. Even if it's not enough, it just shows that that offer is even there. That is so important. But if they just say, we're just looking for people to donate their time. And it's like, well, I'm looking for someone to donate time to fix my car too. That's another thing that's so important is that no one goes to your restaurants and says, yeah, I really like this meal, but would you be able to do it for this much? You don't call a plumber and say, well, I do need to get my sink replaced, but could you do it for this amount no other businesses do that except creative businesses but it is still a business so just think of that where do you go and say yeah I'm hungry but I don't have that much well then you go somewhere else and you buy some food somewhere else so why do we do it so easily and we should not be you both are saying like something very
SPEAKER_01:cute like you both are saying a lot of things because you guys are pros i'm like young so like i have so many i have friends
SPEAKER_03:i
SPEAKER_01:have friends that i know that hear this conversation and they're like i won't work for free, but they need practice. I think you should practice for free all the time. So they don't get better, they don't sharpen the skills because they think they need to get paid to do that. That's also a
SPEAKER_07:dangerous mindset. There's a lot of overconfident kids, and I use the word kids because I just mean inexperienced, of any age, but there's a lot of people out there just saying like, my stuff don't stink and I deserve to get paid for this too because I've got this equipment. And it's like, you have nothing to show for that.
SPEAKER_06:price. Yeah. And so if you are, if you are like just starting, you are building a portfolio. Well, one, again, that's a great time to have some creative jam sessions. That's a great time for you to build community with other creatives and other artists. Because if I have never done photography before at all, I might say, Hey, can I come on a shoot with you and be your second person? I can do lighting. I can do anything. Right. Like, so if you're in that kind of space where you're like, I'm transitioning, you can't expect the same thing as somebody who's been doing something for 15 years. Like, let's be real, right? But if there's a money apart, you can still say, I'm going to give you$25 to come and do my life. Like, yeah, I'm not getting paid anywhere near what the contract
SPEAKER_04:is getting. If you're a videographer and you want to work on a show, you can help me with this production.
SPEAKER_06:Right? But if you are dealing with like, I am a fan of like mentorship programs and things like that. That might be a little bit different. So if you're dealing with like a college or a high school, again, that is a different type of scenario. If you are 14 shooting your family's wedding, baby, be happy they're letting you shoot that wedding. They're taking a risk on you and they're paying you in that hug at the end, right? But you're still getting paid, Tossie. So I just wanted to clarify because of that. Make sure you're getting some type of an energy exchange, which is bigger than money. Make sure it's an energy exchange that you can be happy with. But it's important that I say this. You will never, never, never get paid What you are worth. You are worth so much more than any amount of money. You'll never get paid what you are worth, but you just need to make sure that you're getting paid something that's a reasonable energy exchange for you.
SPEAKER_03:Just to tack on to the end of that, I tell people all the time, it's critical we protect our enthusiasm. And if that number does not make you show up to work and be so happy to be there, it's not enough. And likewise, back to what you said at the very beginning was like If you accept a number that is below what you're enthusiastic, you have to show up. You still have to show up to be enthusiastic.
SPEAKER_04:I want to sit here for another four hours, but we all have things to get back to. We'll have you guys on again for sure. We'll do it at another place another time and we'll do that for sure. I got to put a ball on it. I love that you're having
SPEAKER_07:this conversation because I find so many times that people are so disjointed and so unwilling to think that you have anything in common with someone else until you sit down at a table break bread and you realize the things we have in common are so much bigger than what we have that separate us because like things that you guys do it's nothing like what we do but I have so much in common with everyone at this table so these conversations are just rad I
SPEAKER_04:mean it's really important that I brought in a whole vast array of from you know from restaurant because I think the major art there restaurant, bar, from photography and video, what we do. But then also we film the stuff that you produce. Like we're putting, we're taking photos of stuff that you produce. And I mean, look at the, you got stained glass here. That's art. Somebody did it, you know, and then the arches from who designed the sconces. There's art everywhere in everything that we are doing. And so there's a vast array of things. And that's really why I wanted to do it because I, you know, I'm struggle with, you know, getting out there and being a part of that community. And I shut myself in so much that I'm like, okay, I got to get out there. I got to do something because it's going to inspire me then to do that more. So I seriously, from the bottom of my heart, I really appreciate each and every one of you. It really does mean the world because I've wanted to do this as Nate. I've wanted to do this since I've known him. And I tried an iteration of it, did not work out, was not, just the culture, the feel wasn't right. But I know get some people that you respect in the field and bring them in and have a conversation. Awesome. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. Appreciate it. That's it. I
SPEAKER_06:have a request before we leave. I mean, we're right here, you
SPEAKER_02:know. Can I get in my family? We can. We can do something. Okay, period. I don't know if he's set up. I don't
SPEAKER_06:know if he's set up like that. He already said yes. Man, don't be trying to take my yes away. We're going to take a selfie. We're going to take a one, two, three, four