Episode 2: Amishi Takalkar's Leadership Journey

What shapes a truly exceptional leader? In this captivating conversation with Amishi Takalkar, co-founder and CEO of Nailbiter, we explore the journey that transformed a young woman from Mumbai into a pioneering force in behavioral analytics.

The heart of our conversation explores Amishi's cultural transition to America, where despite her English fluency, she encountered unexpected challenges with accents, cultural references, and professional norms. Her candid admission about struggling with "self-doubt" despite having valuable contributions resonates with anyone who's felt like an outsider. This experience transformed into wisdom: "Be the hardworking squeaky wheel" – recognizing that excellent work doesn't always speak for itself.

What truly distinguishes Amishi's leadership philosophy is her refreshing perspective on workplace relationships. "We're not family, we're colleagues," she explains, creating space for honest professional relationships while maintaining genuine care for team members' growth. This approach has led to an unusual outcome – former employees frequently return to Nailbiter after gaining experience elsewhere, a testament to the strength of her leadership model.

Whether you're navigating cultural transitions, building a team across diverse backgrounds, or seeking to balance perfectionism with trust, Amishi's journey offers invaluable insights. Her parting wisdom? "Continue to listen... The less you talk and the more you listen, you grow as a leader." Subscribe now to hear more transformative leadership stories that will inspire your own professional journey.

Transcript

Meet Amishi Takalkar, CEO of Nailbiter

Nathaniel Noertker 0:20

Hello and welcome to Life in Leadership Stories. I'm your host, Nathaniel Noertker. I'm really excited to have you with me today as I talk with an amazing person and leader, Amishi Takalkar. Amishi is the co-founder and CEO of Nailbiter, a leading global market research company leading the way in behavioral analytics. We will focus today's conversation around four key topics Some of Amishi's personal journey and what helped shape her into who she is today. The influence of leaders she has worked for in her career, as well as the impact of relocating to the US and the impact that had on how she works with others. Her leadership lens. Hear about her style of leadership and the aspects of leading others that she has learned throughout her career. And finally, some rapid reflections, quick responses covering failures, successes and advice for her younger self about her career and her leadership improvements. So let's start talking with Amishi.

Amishi Takalkar 1:21

So, first of all, I just want to say thank you for inviting me to the podcast, especially when you know it's called Life and Leadership Stories. And if you had asked the 21-year-old me who got off the plane in Dallas, texas, for the first time and, you know, ever been to Texas, if you will I would have laughed and asked for the nearest Taco Bell. So it's been a journey right, it has been a very interesting journey. So, number one, just thank you. It's you know we worked together for a while, so you asking me to join this is in itself. I feel honored and want to thank you for it.

Nathaniel Noertker 2:05

Oh no, that's me that feels honored Truly. Thank you, I appreciate it.

Amishi Takalkar 2:10

And then just a little bit about myself in terms of where I grew up. I grew up in India. So my and you know for those of you who know you know India is just the range is crazy, right. So I grew up in Mumbai, which is one of the biggest cities, and I grew up in a very modern city, however in a little bit of a conservative household. So in our family my mother's always been a stay at home mom.

Amishi Takalkar 2:42

You know, men go to work and mentally I was always kind of looking at how my mom manages the house and how my dad manages the work and it was interesting because logically, you're expected as a girl to follow what your mothers are doing.

Amishi Takalkar 3:01

But I was always torn because I wanted to do both. I felt like I'm missing out if I just do one or the other. So that's where, kind of the whole you know, when you think about childhood and what you know, how that impacts how you kind of grow up to be, I feel like it was always about breaking the norm and it was always about wanting to do what I think is right for me versus letting others decide what's right for me. I think that was quite an interesting, you know, when I look back at that time you don't know you're doing this. I think that was. I'm glad I went, you know, had that challenge to kind of overcome as a teenager, because I feel like it's made me a much stronger human being, a mother and you know, and a colleague, as I see myself today.

Nathaniel Noertker 4:00

Absolutely and very much a departure right from where you are and all the things that you've accomplished, which is incredible. It's great to have those understanding and see what has what. What have you experienced? How does that shape what you want to be and what you want to do? And then, how does that shape how you parent right and really showcasing to your girls, your kids, what do they want to be, what do they want to take from you and all the things that you've learned?

From MTV India to Leadership Lessons

Amishi Takalkar 4:28

Yeah, that's that's. They're very proud about the fact that they can say their mom was a part-time VJ in, you know, mtv India. They were like, why don't you move to the U? S? You should have just had a very like you know, this popular life that you had back at home. So they still question me about that.

Amishi Takalkar 4:46

What they don't know is that actually I was doing my MBA and I got my first internship at MTV India. It was a full-time intern, like analyst type of a job, because I was doing my master's in advertising at that time and it was at that time in 2000, I want to say 99. It was like a startup. It's very much like you know, and it's just come to India, it's just started and there's a very small group of people who are trying to accomplish big things and you were told to do whatever the need was. You know, given the day, and so when a VJ would go missing or go sick, they were like we need someone from this office to go in front of the camera because you're going live in 30 minutes, and so that was an opportunity and I never thought I was going to do that, but again, it was an opportunity to step out of the comfort zone to do something that I never wanted to do. There's a reason I didn't continue down that path, move more to the analyst path and here doing insights and research, but it taught me a lot of things. It was, and it's, a fun experience that I love to talk about. I clearly wasn't very good at it either, so, again, you just go down the path that you naturally are better at than a vj.

Amishi Takalkar 6:07

So, um, so yeah, I think that was that was exciting. It gave me an opportunity to and you know, just kind of see how, yes, as an intern, you are like crunching numbers. You are doing things that are low risk, but then for a place like mtv, mtv India, to allow me to go on TV, they were taking a risk too, and that also kind of taught me that it's okay to take risks, because sometimes they won't work, but a lot of times they do work. And it actually also, as a member of their team, it made me more invested in what I was doing. It made me more kind of excited about what I was doing and the trust that they were placing on me. I really wanted to follow through. I really wanted to do the best I could, because, you know, not everyone gets to do that.

Amishi Takalkar 7:00

And I feel like, when I look at my leadership now, you will see this in Nailbiter all the time, which is, I will push people to go beyond their limits. Right, I will Again if they want to. There's no force. But you know that someone is really good, but they're holding themselves back. At least give them those opportunities to to shine Right. Give them the choice as well. Opportunities to to shine right, uh, give them the choice as well. But sometimes, when you're that young, you want a little bit of a nudge, a little bit of a push, a little bit of you know, like I don't know just some encouragement that it's okay to fail, but but try it right absolutely.

Nathaniel Noertker 7:38

I love that story. Right is how many people have been a vj on m right? I think that's amazing, number one. But number two pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, putting yourself in front of live TV presentation and communication skills you had to have those in order to be in that place, in front of that camera. How do you think that has impacted how you engage and interact with clients and conferences today? Had you not had that experience, would you be a little different today?

Amishi Takalkar 8:12

Look, I still get nervous when I'm on stage presenting at conferences. So it's, you know, no matter how much you do and I like it that I'm a little nervous because it allows me to, you know, put my best foot forward. I don't take anything for granted. I want to know my content really well. But I'll say this, because this used to be last minute and there was no prep, that there was no script, there was no prep, there was no teleprompters. You were literally told you're going to be talking about this song, here's the song. Go figure out what you're going to say, because you're going to be saying this is coming up next and so it what it today. So when I talk to clients and you know this well, because you've been a client of mine and you see me talking to clients is I don't necessarily work really well.

Amishi Takalkar 8:58

If there is a script I want to go with, like, I want to have a conversation. I don't want to talk, you know, talk at people. I want to go with, uh, like, I want to have a conversation. I don't want to talk, you know, talk at people. I want to talk with them. I want to, like, you know, have a conversation. That's the, that's what works for me. I'm not saying it works for everyone, but because you know, if you know what you're doing well, it's much easier and you care about the final audience. You will want to set it up in a way that you know you're not like in that box and following a script, and I feel like that's worked best for me.

Amishi Takalkar 9:33

Whether it's at conferences, whether it's, you know, in front of clients, I feel like I talk to them, the way I want to be talked to, right, and how what will catch my attention and how you know the tone, the content and as well as like, do I want to be like I know it all or do I want to be more like you know, more conversationalist, right, and that's. I feel like that's where I see people fail, because when people try to preach, I really check out personally. So it becomes very hard for me to preach to people like, oh, you should do this and this and this, and I can't. I suck at mentorship that way in terms of like, here's how you can, you know this, this, this right. I think it's more about sharing your experiences and talking about way, the way you see things, and being empathetic to what the other person is, you know.

Nathaniel Noertker 10:28

Absolutely, and I think those conversations with like, if you're given a presentation conversationally, giving that presentation that way versus reading off a script is much easier to receive as an audience member because you do feel like you're talking to that person, even though it could be a broad set of engagement.

Nathaniel Noertker 10:46

To receive as an audience member, because you do feel like you're talking to that person, even though it could be a broad set of engagement, like a big amount of people in the audience, you still feel much more like it's a one-on-one. And I know for me personally, being an audience member, when somebody is presenting in that style, where it's not so scripted, I tend to learn more and take more away because it has been more of that conversation and I think that that's an incredible asset to have when you're going and doing that, because not a lot of people can do that, which I'm always amazed by, and I think it's interesting that there are folks, when they communicate and give presentations, they have to be scripted or they're not going to be able to relay the information properly, versus those who are much more conversational and who can showcase that they have that knowledge of the data and consult with others.

Amishi Takalkar 11:34

I think that's such a valuable skill to have whether it's a client or even the audience that you're talking to. They can, uh, they appreciate that you are not telling them the same thing you've told 50 other times. Right? Your audience sees what you're doing, they know when you're reading, they know when you're you know just speaking from personal experiences it's if they know when you're trying to understand their problem and trying to solve it. So I feel like the more you listen and the more kind of a little bit more open ended you keep it. I feel like it just adds that much more connection between, between, no matter how big your audience is, whether it's one client or whether it's an auditorium of 300 people.

Cultural Transition Challenges

Nathaniel Noertker 12:19

Absolutely love that. Let's look at challenges maybe some growth areas that you have had that have formed kind of who you are. So are there any experiences with maybe you've had a difficult manager in your past or you've had a really good manager in your past, and how they have impacted your leadership style that you have today?

Amishi Takalkar 12:40

Yeah, look, I've been very fortunate to have good managers no-transcript and I don't connect with this person. I don't know if I can do my job well, so that used to be like my first sentence anytime I interviewed, which is do I, do I want to work for this person that I'm interviewing with. And so it worked out in the long run because I have had amazing managers that I um that have, like you know, really helped me be the person I am. I think they've mentored me, they have I'm still. I talk to some of them, even now I reach out to them and one of them is Amit. You know, you know him really well. Like he was, he was I was his client at when he was at Afinova, and when he came to me and said you should move to the vendor side, I was like you're like what are you on?

Amishi Takalkar 13:56

Like why would I ever do that to myself? Like I have a very comfortable life. I don't want. Like I had two kids at that time, really small right, three and one. So you really, as a mother, trying to manage home and work and everything like the work-life balance, and so my career was like just it's going, it's not really thriving, but I'm giving enough time to the kids and I'm doing what I feel is the right thing to be doing at that time. And so he said well, it, just because you move to the vendor side doesn't mean it's gonna suck like you should really try. I mean really pushed me to get out of my comfort zone. And I haven't looked back since.

Amishi Takalkar 14:34

Like since I moved to Affinova I stayed on, if you say on the vendor side, and even when we decided to do Nail biter together, it was again the trust and the push where he was like I think you can do it. I mean you, you know it. Sometimes you need I don't know some reinforcement, especially when you haven't done some things on your own. So even at that age it was good to have someone who thought I could do more than I thought I could do. So genuinely appreciate that. And same thing about another manager I had at AOL really pushed me hard to step out of my comfort zone and do things you know differently. So I would say that has definitely helped.

Amishi Takalkar 15:17

I would say that the one thing that I've learned and again, this is for women, you know, even those who come may maybe moving from another country to a different country to work and you're trying to fit into the culture, the language, the people and you kind of feel out of place. It is very scary to speak up because I was like in India you can tell me to go on TV and I'll do it, but all of a sudden I'm in Texas, I have, I couldn't understand the southern accent, like I could not for the longest time. I'm like is this English? Like how am I? I've seen Hollywood movies Like what's going?

Nathaniel Noertker 15:58

on. Why am I?

Amishi Takalkar 15:59

not understanding what my teacher is saying. I need like subtitles. Eventually I learned it. I just realized at that time that there are all these different accents and you know again, you see that in India, but you don't think of it when you go to a different country. That that's something like I, like I was, I still did my school in English, right, everything was in English. So I thought I, I'm awesome in English, like that's my preferred way of communication. So to come here and be like I have no idea what they're saying, they're talking about products that never existed in India. Like you know, lojack I don't know if you remember what that was Like. That was the first case study. Like okay, I'm that old, I'm dating myself, but my first case study in a marketing class when I went to school here was this low jack, which is a device that they would put in cars for anti theft or something like that.

Amishi Takalkar 16:52

Okay yes, now the whole class is talking about low jack and I'm like, what the heck is this saying? Like, figure out what they're talking about. The other thing they would talk about is all the you know NFL analogies. You have defense and you have offense and you have special teams and I never knew what football is all about. I had no idea.

Amishi Takalkar 17:14

Now I know a lot about it, but at that time, you know, a lot of these things really made it difficult for me to participate in class because I always thought I would be wrong, Even at work in the first few jobs, right, you're always kind of second guessing yourself. You don't, you're not doing justice to yourself or to like, if you're doing a group project, you're not participating. I did have good things to add. I was just very unsure and doubtful. My team didn't doubt me, but I doubted myself, that self-doubt. So I would say that you know, whether it's at school or work or wherever, I would say in hindsight, I should have at least said something to you know, participate. To make my point known, because they were valid points. In hindsight it could have helped the project, it could have helped up, whether at school or at work, it would have had a positive impact, but I did not do justice to myself, or to my team or to my managers by holding back.

Nathaniel Noertker 18:18

Yeah, I think that goes really well with some of the things that I've talked about.

Nathaniel Noertker 18:21

right, and that is intentional vocalization when you get into meetings, there are times when you do want to listen and you need to take in the information, but there are also times when you do need to speak up. You have good things to say and the reverse of that is, if you don't speak up, you can start to get this opinion of you formed that you don't care or you're not knowledgeable of the situation or you're just not paying attention, which is actually not the case. But you have to manage that perception of you by being willing to actively participate and vocalize things, not just to repeat something that somebody else has already said, but you have to get something into that conversation so that people learn to build that trust with you, learn to understand that you are actively engaging.

Leadership Style and Perfectionism

Amishi Takalkar 19:11

That is so true. And I also feel that India, when you grow up there like culturally you are, you know the saying that they have. That is, you do all the hard work and you'll see the results. America taught me something very different If you don't speak up for yourself, nobody's looking out for you. So so growing up that's and I think it's a balance of both you can not work hard and keep talking and expect results either. But I do feel that what was taught to me when I was younger around, just keep working hard.

Amishi Takalkar 19:45

Someone, you know people your work will speak for itself it doesn't not all the time, not all the time the squeaky wheel like you need to be a hard-working squeaky wheel, right, that's, that's absolutely.

Nathaniel Noertker 19:59

I think that's actually a very good description of that right. Right, you do have to be that hardworking squeaky wheel, because people do need to know that you're there and that's in order to get those promotions, to get that really kind of justification or credit for the things that you're doing. You have to do that. If you slide into the background which I have been guilty of many, many times in my past in my career kind of being that wallflower sliding in the background you will get overlooked.

Amishi Takalkar 20:29

Yep, yep, a hundred percent, and and that's that. That is, like I said, again very important here. Where you you want to be, and you know it's it's. I get it like corporate America is tough. You know the world we live in is tough and I can't expect someone like my manager, who could have been managing 50 other people, to be paying attention to me doing the hard work and noticing how good I am, and then you know, so it's kind of you're not just looking out for yourself, but at the same time you can't expect others to do what you should be doing in the first place.

Amishi Takalkar 21:05

So again, it's, it's, it's not just you, and expecting someone else to see what you do, I feel is a bit unfair. I and I'm saying it from the perspective of me being on the other side too right, I would love to promote all the good people and things like that, but I don't get to see every day how hard they're working. So unless and I do make an effort to have that conversation and find out what they're doing, but you get caught up in other things. You know clients called, something broke. You know my kid had a meltdown like. There are just so many things happening in your life that even though you may have the best intent, it, it may not go through the way you wanted it to be. So I feel like it's really a good practice to you. Know you don't want to brag, you know there's that line.

Nathaniel Noertker 21:52

The fine line.

Amishi Takalkar 21:53

Yeah, yeah, but at the same time, it's okay to find time to you know, talk to your manager, talk to your leader about what you're working on and how things are going and how are you feeling. I feel like that's the best way to go about it, versus only calling when you want to complain and only yes agreed.

Nathaniel Noertker 22:14

So, from your leadership perspective and how you are a leader today, right, so you have an organization that you run. You are a very good leader. What kind of experiences that you've had that have really shaped your approach to leadership today?

Amishi Takalkar 22:33

Yeah. So I have always like, if there are a few things that people some good things and some bad things that people will define me as and some of the good things are that I do lead from the front. Like you will see me, if the team is working late, I am working late with them on most days. They'll see me in that powerpoint presentation trying to help them out, trying to do the best by the client, making sure that I can do what I can to make their lives easier, like. So I do think that that is really important because, especially for a company our size, it matters. Right. It's hard when you're feeling alone and only one kind of dealing with all the problems at work and things like that. But when you see someone else is there with you trying to get you through, you know that late night that you might be having it just makes it easier. It becomes like you know you're just figuring things out together. So I feel like that is definitely something that that I have learned because I've worked alone as a founder. You know I had a co-founder, I have a co-founder. I've seen on the things I would work on alone. It's a very thankless job when you can't talk to someone celebrate the wins, you know, talk about things that are not going well, and, yes, I can share it with my family, but they don't get it, they don't get all of it. So it's only someone who works with you who's going to know that. You know, yes, I get it right. I went when you and I are talking and you talk to me about a deck that you know you're trying to solve for and you can't get the answer. We've been there, we've been there and we know what it feels like. I can't solve this puzzle. How do I solve it? So, so I think that is really. That is really important.

Amishi Takalkar 24:24

On the flip side, I am a little bit of a perfectionist, which is unfair to a lot of people, but it's hard to not be one. To be honest, right To me, clients and their data and their presentations are like sacrosanctious. Right, it's like I need to feel good about what's going out there. So I like look at it and look at it again, and look at it again. So I do feel that, and that somewhere comes from the fact that when you know, when you yourself in the beginning, that you know you're not a hundred percent confident when you come to a new place in a beginning that you know you're not 100% confident when you come to a new place in a new country and you're kind of questioning everything.

Amishi Takalkar 25:09

I think that just stayed with me, which is where now the only way I'm satisfied or confident about something that's going out is when I look at it once and twice and thrice and I'm like it's perfect, like nothing can go wrong with it, think I think that's where that's coming from. And the third thing I would say is that and I've gotten better at this, which is trust other people to kind of learn from you and you know kind of kind of do the right things because you've shown them the way right. You've shown them what you want to see, how you want to see it. So I think that part originally, if you had talked to me 10 years back, I was like complete OCD about even things you were working on I would probably say, oh, nathan, I need to see it, I'm going to check every little bit, but I've learned to trust the team to you know, not be a micromanager, because that comes very naturally to me.

Nathaniel Noertker 26:10

Yes, I understand. I think the first thing that you talked about is that servant leadership model. Right, and I think that is something that you hear a lot about in industry and leadership. You want servant leaders, you want to have a servant leadership model, but I don't feel like people talk about that enough as far as what does that mean and I think you gave a very good definition of that right being willing to jump in, doing those things with the team not for them, but with them and helping kind of push them along and getting them to where they need to be in the end, and that you're kind of living that journey with that person.

Nathaniel Noertker 26:50

I also like the aspect because I've struggled with that myself and you still see me struggle with this is allowing other people to kind of jump in and do those things and trusting that they will do that and not being so much of a perfectionist or OCD on certain things.

Nathaniel Noertker 27:07

It may not be the way that you want it, but as long as it's done in the end the right way and the results are good, does it really matter that it wasn't in your format or in this kind of thing and I have challenged myself with that in the past as well, and I've seen other people struggle with that Right, and I have challenged myself with that in the past as well and I've seen other people struggle with that right and we've all look, you and I have both seen folks in the industry or people that we've worked with that struggle with that aspect. And you sit back as an observer and almost go what are you doing? Like, let them do it, let the team manage it, they can do it. And are they ever going to learn if you don't let them actually do the, the, the thing that needs to be done, and either succeed or fail?

Amishi Takalkar 27:51

yep, yep, no, I, I agree, and I think that's how they grow, right?

Amishi Takalkar 27:55

I always talk about that yes um and and allow them to make their own mistakes, because I also feel that when my kid um breaks, you know, a glass and the water spilled all over, I'm much more angry about cleaning up than when I drop that glass of water, because you you're okay when you make your own mess and then you are supposed to fix it versus cleaning up other people's. So that's what I do when making my own mistake and that's where you know. That's how you grow right. That's how you learn. You make mistakes, but you learn from your mistakes and it's much easier to see it and fix it for yourself than have other people do it for you or fixing someone else's crap.

Nathaniel Noertker 28:38

Absolutely Within your experience. Have there been any leadership training experiences that have influenced your ability to lead others in a more effective way? Or you know something that you've gone through that you've really enjoyed, that has helped you grow as a leader and how you work with others. What is that experience and what does that look like?

Amishi Takalkar 29:04

Yeah, look, I've read a lot of leadership books, I have gone through a few trainings, but, honestly, if you ask me to remember any of them, I probably retain like 5% of it.

Amishi Takalkar 29:19

Right, because in that moment you learn a lot and you're very motivated and very excited, but there's only a few things that stay with you where you go. Okay, you know, this is who I am, because it's again about taking what you're told, but personalizing it and moving along. Right, and I think the main thing I have seen is how do people behave and how do they lead when no one is watching? Because the the big thing that I see is you'll see, in these big, you know, like I don't know all hands, meetings, people talking about leadership and how they are with their teams and things like that. To me, okay, I'm, you're saying all the right things, but when I see you interact with someone else, when you, when I see you write your emails, when I see you communicating, when someone makes a mistake, to me that is leadership. To me it's in the small moments where you need to, you know, show up as a leader, versus doing these trainings and talking big and saying all these things, versus it's it's literally the small things that count Absolutely.

Nathaniel Noertker 30:27

I completely agree with you because I think that you will have certain things that you learn right. I think one of the things I learned very early on in my career went through a leadership training. This always sticks with me is observable opportunities. And really, what did I observe that you did or that you've been working on? How do I, what does that mean as an opportunity and how do I help you move towards that? That is one piece, but if you look at all the leadership trainings and things that you, that I've taken over the years, just like yourself, how much of that do you use every day, day in and day out?

Nathaniel Noertker 31:02

There are small things that may shift what you do, but what I have found for myself is that the majority of who I am and what I do and how I am as a leader has come from doing and from learning. Oh, that didn't work as a leader. I need to shift this. I need to do this a little differently going forward, or I need to try this a different way in the next time I go about it. Right, a lot of it is learning from doing. There are some pieces that come to life, like you said, like you're going to make some small adjustments but ultimately you're going to learn in that environment what works and what doesn't you.

Amishi Takalkar 31:38

That's so right. I think that I'll say sometimes I feel like I'm doing this really good thing by saying something to someone and it's going to have this really positive impact on their lives and it backfires in such a bad way that you're literally like, oh my God, like what? Why did I do this? It's like very similar when I deal with my teenagers as well. Right Like it is, I feel like parenting is I mean sorry, leadership is like parenting teenagers.

Amishi Takalkar 32:02

Like half the time you're wondering if they're listening to you. The other times you're wondering if it's like they could be listening but nothing's happening. It's not like they're not processing it, and the other times you're just trying to get out of their way, like you do, you and I get out of the way, because it's going to be like a car crash if both of us end up in the same place right now. So, literally, like I feel like the two teenagers in the house have made me a better leader because they yeah, I see what works, what doesn't work. In fact, a lot of people who are now at need better. They're closer to my kids age than my age and I'm trying to use some of these lessons that I'm learning every day the tough lessons, uh, and trying to implement them in my professional life absolutely.

Nathaniel Noertker 32:49

I think before we get into rapid reflections, I've got one more um question for you and I think being part of your Nailbiter at right and and having that ability to work with you directly and work in in organization One of the things when I first started that stuck out to me that you had said as very, very early like I probably had been on board maybe a couple of weeks and one of the things that you mentioned in the company meeting was look, we're not family, we're colleagues.

Nathaniel Noertker 33:22

And at first I admittedly I was like, oh well, why not? Like we want to be fair, like we want that. But then, as you explain that and brought that to life, the light bulb kind of goes off and I was like, oh, I actually really liked that. Would love to hear explain that aspect of why do you have that perspective as far as leadership within your organization? Why do you take that position of we're not family, we're colleagues?

Amishi Takalkar 33:50

yeah, because, uh, you know you take a lot of things for granted with your family, right, number one, I can get away with a lot of things. Uh, because my parents only, my kids only have one mom, and so they are this, uh, and, and they know that they can get away with things like, they know how, um, they'll do certain things and I'll, you know, forgive and forget and move on, but it's not the same way at work. You are number one. You want to come here, I want you to work, but I don't want you to spend your entire day and night working. Right, I want you to come here, work, have a great time, make friends, you know like, celebrate your wins, you know, complain together, whatever. You wanted to do that, but at the end of the day, in the evening, I want you to go back to your family. I want you to go spend time with them. I want you to you know time with them. I want you to, you know, have that life right, because that's like the first thing.

Amishi Takalkar 34:48

And the second thing is whoever says work, you know their colleagues or their family or whatever, they're just wrong, because tomorrow, if something bad happens, you will let people go from your company, for whatever reason, performance or you know financials or what have you. You don't do that to your family members. You don't go like I can't afford you anymore, you're out, right? You're not going to say that to my teenagers. So it's it's.

Amishi Takalkar 35:15

It's good to be honest, and I want them to know that tomorrow, if they find something better, something that you know is a great career, move from them. I'll only be proud of them because they were working for me. They learned something good from here. Hopefully they can take it to their next job and they got a bigger job. I mean it'll be sad to see them go, but it that's how it works, that's how it's supposed to be. You come here, you build your experiences, you learn you form, you know whatever it is your, your decisions, you make your decisions. Is this the place for you? Is this, how long do you want to stay here? But then tomorrow, when something better comes along, you move. You don't do that to your husband. You don't go like, oh, I see this guy, he looks much better. I mean, at least I don't.

Nathaniel Noertker 36:02

There you go, but I think there's one aspect that you just talked about, right, when people leave your organization.

Nathaniel Noertker 36:11

I have been the recipient. I have seen as well others so not just to myself but to others Very different experiences that people have when they leave an organization, and I think one of the things that I have appreciated about being at MailBetter is watching that process. When somebody decides that, hey, I'm going to go somewhere else for my own growth, for whatever what that has looked like for them, and I would love for you to share with those who are listening why you take that stance. You kind of talked about that a little bit, but I think it's worth almost repeating and just talking a little bit more in depth about because and why you do that. Right, what does that mean to you? What does that mean to that person? Because when somebody exits, there are definitely ways that I've seen people get treated that are not appropriate for a leader to do and how they should behave, from my own personal opinion, but would love for you to talk about that a little bit more.

Amishi Takalkar 37:13

Yeah, look my perspective and Nathan, you know this that we've had more people leave, do something else and come back than a lot of other companies, and it is driven by the fact that you know you are growing every day. A person is not the same that they were when they joined you, versus how they're feeling and what they're doing in your five of being with you. They want to experience other things as well. They want to, you know, grow, and it is unfair as an organization for me to be like, nope, I hired you, I own you. That's not how that works. In fact, when they move, there are reasons why they're moving. Number one they could genuinely be unhappy with what they're doing here, right? No, I mean, I may not be a right fit, I would. I would want to think this is the perfect place in the world for everyone, but, in all honesty, we do our best, best, but they may feel like they're looking for something else. They're looking for something more, that they are, you know, maxed out. They want a different experience and I get it. I was. I did the same when I was, you know, uh, joining the industry that you want to diversify your experience and you want to learn. You want to grow, no matter what your age, no matter how long you've been in a particular organization. So that's the first thing.

Amishi Takalkar 38:30

Second thing is I personally do feel that if they found something that good like we've had people go on the client side right, clients have reached out and hired folks from Nailbiter, from Nail biter and you know when they want to go and work from them.

Amishi Takalkar 38:44

It makes me very proud because we created really good researchers, because these were folks who joined us right out of school with no research experience, and we they were.

Amishi Takalkar 38:55

They learned so much here that they're actually going, you know, able to go out and do something that a lot of people don't do, right. And the third thing is that I want to celebrate their success, like at the end of the day, I'm sure they're excited about the next thing that they're going to do and I want to be a part of that because I don't want to be the one saying you suck, I hate you like. No, I genuinely wish the best for them and they know that and I always tell them, especially the ones that are really that are really good, that I'm really sad to see them go. I'm like our doors will always be open. You know you go do what you need to do. If you ever want to come back, just give us a call and you know if something is, you know if I can do something, I'd love to have you back and sometimes they do come back.

Nathaniel Noertker 39:47

I love that, because that is exactly right. Right, You're sad for yourself but you're happy for them. If you genuinely care about that person, you're happy for them that they're going and doing something that they're excited about.

Rapid Reflections and Key Takeaways

Amishi Takalkar 39:59

Correct, correct, exactly, and I think it's again about empathy, right, versus just sympathy for yourself or you know, kind of just thinking about it like the world revolves around you kind of a perspective. So I feel like you just need to. It's okay, it happens. I have done the same things. All of us have done the same things when we had similar choices to make, so why are we expecting someone else to do things differently than what it's like? I find that to be like double standards at its best absolutely all right.

Nathaniel Noertker 40:31

So rapid reflections as we wrap up. What is your biggest failure as a leader?

Amishi Takalkar 40:38

if you're comfortable sharing, uh, I would say is that, uh, trying to do it all? I feel like you. Um, it was hard for me to delegate it like my. I would say is that trying to do it all? I feel like you. It was hard for me to delegate it Like my. I would say my biggest failure in the beginning at Nailbiter was like, if you can't do it, just give it to me and I'll take care of it. It was not about what can I do to get you there. I feel like that was that took a while. It's about like building that trust and in delegating and giving up that control. So for someone who's like very OCD just in all aspects of my life, I would say that would be the biggest failure. I'm still working on it. I wouldn't say I've reached that point yet. I think a lot of people I know will be nodding their heads when I say that I'm not there yet, but I constantly am learning and working to delegate more and more and more.

Nathaniel Noertker 41:32

Awesome, biggest success as a leader or your most proud moment, something you're most proud of as a leader?

Amishi Takalkar 41:40

Look, I will say there are to me at Nail biter right, I have clients who've come and told me that how do you have such a strong team? Everyone we talk to, um, like I can't even pick from. You know, I want this vp or director to work on my project versus another. Everyone's a great presenter, they're great human beings, they're likable, they're smart. So I do feel that, again, no credit to me. They are amazing people.

Amishi Takalkar 42:07

But at the same time, to find those people and bring them into a culture that you're trying to build in an organization, it's hard like it's. You know, we have one of the, the core kind of things that we have is we don't hire a-holes, right, and it's very hard to weed them out in the interviewing process. But I think that's the key thing to whoever interviews and I don't interview everyone, but even the other folks who are interviewing in the company that's something that's like in the back of their minds. Always that is this person going to hurt. You know, the, the culture of the company, right? So, just overall, and it's one thing for us to believe in that and say it, but clients saying that again and again and again, it's just so, because then there's nothing in it for them to tell me that, and so just to hear that is so satisfying, it just makes me so proud.

Nathaniel Noertker 43:00

Awesome Now thinking about your younger self, right, if you could go back and give yourself some advice. Let's start with your career journey. What would you tell your younger self about your career journey that you wish you would have known early?

Amishi Takalkar 43:19

on that I would say where there's a will, there is a way, right? I feel like if you really want something and you work hard towards it, you will get it. I believe that so much. I didn't believe it at that time. A lot of times you just feel like a failure. You feel like, oh, I'm trying so hard and I just can't figure this out.

Amishi Takalkar 43:40

I still can't understand that accent that this teacher is saying, understand that accent that this teacher is saying but, uh, you know, just be patient with yourself. You know, keep at it and good things will happen. I have not, um, like, don't give up, literally right. Like, work hard towards what you want and just don't give up. Just keep at it and good things will happen, because you deserve them. I always say this, this to myself how dare I not get it? I deserve it. Like if I'm working that hard for it, I better get it. And I teach that to my kids as well that as long as you feel you've given it 100% and you think you deserve it, it will happen. It may not happen right now, just because you want it right now, but it will happen at the right time.

Nathaniel Noertker 44:24

Absolutely. Things don't always happen on our timelines that we would like, but I think when you look back at certain things, you go okay, I can see where this occurred. Because of this and those are very satisfying moments to look back and go. Okay, I didn't make the right decision, or what was I thinking?

Amishi Takalkar 44:43

it's so important to trust yourself because in the beginning, like you know, a younger self right You're always looking for validation, you're always looking for confirmation that I want to do something. So I'll ask 10 people and you know we as researchers, if you know, six people said this and four people said something that you disagree. Six people said something you disagree with and four people agree with you. You're going to talk to 10 more people to see if that ratio changes. Increase the sample size. The base size go, guys, you need to.

Nathaniel Noertker 45:18

Exactly Last one. So again thinking about that advice to your younger self. What would you tell yourself if you could to improve your leadership ability today?

Amishi Takalkar 45:31

I would say that continue to listen, right, you don't? I think that is the biggest thing People will share. They will talk, they will feel like they, they were heard. The less you talk and the more you listen, you grow as a leader. When you listen, more you again like. That to me, is the number one things. You know. Number one thing is we love to hear ourselves talk, but it is when you kind of listen and stay curious and just be honest to yourself, know, have that integrity in you and I think that's all, yeah, excellent. I'm saying that to myself, so I'm just speaking out well.

Nathaniel Noertker 46:13

Thank you for joining us on this podcast life and leadership stories. I really appreciate all of the insights that you've provided and the input that you've given us to really help others learn from your journey.

Amishi Takalkar 46:29

Thank you, nathan, always a pleasure.

Nathaniel Noertker 46:31

So let's wrap up today's episode Number one. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Amishi Takalkar, the co-founder and CEO of Nailbiter. From today's conversation, I have some key takeaways that I wanted to share on my end. Number one push not only yourself out of your comfort zone, but do so for others as well. Encourage your team to do more and be willing to fail. Failures are where they are going to learn. Be conversational with your audience during a presentation. Help them connect with you more.

Nathaniel Noertker 47:07

When interviewing for a role, ask yourself if the interviewer will be a good leader for you. Ask do I really want to work for this person? Also, speak up for yourself and actively engage in meetings and with others. Be the hardworking squeaky wheel that Amishi talked about. Your work may not always speak for itself. Be a servant leader means partnering with your team, working beside them to help them manage the challenges and to celebrate the wins together. Trust your team to do what needs to be done. You can't do everything on your own. You've trained your team. Now let them do the job and grow from their successes and their failures.

Nathaniel Noertker 47:50

Leadership training can help you learn a few things that will stick with you, but how do you show up every day for your team. How do you lead when no one's watching? Leadership can be like parenting teenagers part wondering if they're even listening to you because you talk and don't see progress, and part spending your time getting out of the way and letting them learn. Also, we aren't family, we're colleagues, and that's a good thing. I love that aspect and I hope you had something that you took away from that portion of today's conversation as well. And finally, when people depart, celebrate their success. You can be sad for you but be happy for them. Thank you for listening. Thank you for showing up for your own growth. If Amishi's story resonated with you, I hope you'll come back for future episodes and hear from even more leaders. If this episode inspired you, share it with someone who needs encouragement today. And remember trust your gut, be kind, lead with purpose and never underestimate your impact. Until next time, I'm Nathaniel Noertker and this is Life and Leadership Stories. Thank you.