Care + Competence = Trust

We talk with Mark Peoples, co-founder and chief visionary officer of NavX Realty, about how a hard start in school turns into a life built on resilience, faith, and service-first leadership. We dig into the skills that create real trust, the setbacks that shape better judgment, and the personal priorities that keep success from becoming the goal. 

• Mark’s early learning challenges and the mentor who redirected his path 
• A high school radio station sales call that builds confidence 
• Preparing for sales through practice, internships, and communication skills 
• The three drivers of trust: personality, care, and expertise 
• Teaching instead of pushing as a modern sales approach 
• Building trust through transparency and integrity 
• Parents as early leadership models and the value of work ethic 
• Servant leadership and the balance with delegation 
• Using Working Genius to lead with strengths 
• Rapid Reflections

Transcript

Opening And Guest Setup

Nathan 0:21

Hello, and I'm Nathan Noertker, and this is Life and Leadership Stories. Today's episode features Mark Peebles, co-founder and chief visionary officer of NavX Realty. Mark leads a growing real estate organization with nearly 150 agents across multiple states. But what really stands out is his journey. From struggling with early school challenges to building a thriving business, Mark's story is rooted in resilience, faith, and a deep commitment to people. He's not just a leader in business. He's a husband of 25 years, a father of three, and someone who truly believes that leadership starts with service. Well, thank you for joining me. So glad to have you with me today. So for anyone listening, I've got Mark Peebles on the line with me today. And we're going to talk about leadership, life and leadership stories. So, Mark, why don't you start out by telling us a little bit about yourself and kind of what journey you've been on within your career and within life?

Mark 1:21

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Nathan, for having me on today. This is a real pleasure. Um, I have read most of your book. I say most of it, really. I read most of your book uh because you had sent me a copy in advance and it's so good. I still need to go back and finish it. Um, but man, what an honor to get to be on with you today. So thank you very much. So I am uh the founder and chief visionary officer of NavX Realty. We are a real estate brokerage, uh, about a hundred and but almost 150 agents at this point in Ohio, all over Ohio, and then um all the way out in South Dakota and Wyoming. So we skipped a few states out there, and so I get the privilege to lead that company as the founder and chief visionary officer. And uh I'm also a husband to Elizabeth. In fact, this year we hit 25 years of marriage, and so that's a that's a big milestone to hit in life. And here's the cool thing 25 years that I've been with Elizabeth, and I can honestly say that she still drives me wild. And so, and it's my prayer for everyone that that they would have a marriage like that. Now, and she feels that the what's important is she feels the same way about me. Uh, I mean, just last week she said, Mark, you're driving me crazy. There you go. So, you know, similar, right? That's right, same thing, completely. I've been so blessed uh to be married to Elizabeth. And then I have three amazing kids, Tommy, Olivia, and Elisia. Uh, they're 22, 20, and uh 16 years old. And so that is certainly as a leader, uh, being a father has been an important part of that. And I'm sure we'll talk about that as we go today.

Nathan 3:14

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I think when you think about your background, let's start like younger and how you got into this industry. What really started your transition into becoming this co-founder and leader of this amazing business that you have?

Mark 3:30

Well, yeah, and I really to tell the story, I have to go way back to when I was a kid. Uh when I was a kid, I grew up with a learning disability. In fact, I think it was seventh grade that I went through all the testing and they said that I had a learning disability, which was reading comprehension and math calculation. I think, though, if we were to fast forward to today with how they understand different styles of learning, I would be called dyslexic. So somewhere on that uh spectrum of being dyslexic. And so um I struggled in school. I hated school. Uh, it was so hard for me. And I got into high school. And where I went to high school, Centerville uh high school, the Centerville Elks, um, big school, you know, 2,500 students, and they had all kinds of vocational programs. And so my sophomore year, I applied to be in a two-year vocational program, my junior and senior year, uh, which was radio, WCWT. It was the uh the high school radio station uh at Centerville High School. And so I applied. The first line of my application uh said, I'm going to be the next Peter Jennings. Wouldn't it be amazing to say that you launched my career? So, for those that don't know, like if there's younger people listening, they're probably like, well, who's Peter Jennings? Well, Peter Jennings back in the day was the guy that sat at the ABC News Desk. Back in the day, we didn't have the 24-hour news cycle, and I wanted to be someone that sat at the news desk. And so Peter Jennings was the newscaster, the news anchor that I looked up to. And I used to stand in front of the mirror and I would practice Mark Peebles ABC News, Washington. You know, like that's that's what I wanted to do. And so I got into the program. My teacher later told me, he said, Mark, if you had not written another word on that application, you were in the program. Um, my teacher turned out to be a believer, he's a Christian, and had a major impact on my life. And one day during my junior year of high school, Mr. Dunn pulled me into his office and he said, Mark, um, you know what? I think you can go as far as you want to go in broadcasting. But God made you for sales. And I said, What? I'm not going into sales. Like my dad's been in sales my whole life. My dad's, you know, the first generation realtor in the family. I was like, Mr. Dunn, thanks, but I'm sticking with broadcasting. He said, Okay. But that that year, that junior year, he sent me out on my first sales call. See, we're a self-supported radio station, and we would go out and we would sell $25 hourly sponsorships, or, you know, we had some packages that would be like two or three hundred dollars. But Mr. Dunn sends me out on my first sales call during my junior year, which didn't happen until your senior year. So here I am. I walk in to this Mexican restaurant, Los Pyramidis, in Centerville, Ohio, and I get in front of the manager and I tell him all about this hourly sponsorship he can do for $25. And he looks at me and he says, No. And I was like, No, like I you don't know what you're getting. So I go back to the radio station, I cut a spot, you know, I created a commercial for him, and I go back the next day with my tape player. Now, for again, younger people listening, they're gonna be like, What's a tape player? Well, that's what we used to be able to carry portable before we had iPhones, right? So I take my tape player in with this spot that I had recorded for him, and I play it for him, and it's like this hour of broadcasting on WCWT is brought to you by Lost Pyramidus in Centerville, Centerville's place for Mexican fig, right? You know, it was just it was an exciting, had some energetic uh uh Hispanic music behind it going, and he listens to it and he goes, Okay, and he pulls $25 out of the cash register and puts it in my hand, and it was on. And so my senior year, I became the the sales manager uh for the class. It was our 25th anniversary as a station, and I became the number one salesperson in the history of WCWT. That year, as a class, we sold over $20,000 in these small packages of advertising, and I alone sold 13,000 of that. So, me against the rest of the class, I sold 13,000 of it, and it it started me on this path of really loving the sales process. And so when I graduated from high school, I no longer said I'm gonna be the next Peter Jennings. I thought I would end up in like broadcast sales, right? I would be selling advertising. And so I graduate high school, I major in organizational communication, minor in broadcasting. I took the first uh quarter of broadcasting and realized this isn't for me. I don't I learned a lot of this in high school, and I really focused in on organizational communication and speech communication. Um, but what I did every single year, because I was going to be in sales, what I what I did every summer was I found a sales job. And so uh one summer I went and I interned with Media One, which would now be um Spectrum. You know, they sell cable advertising advertising. I did that. Uh I sold advertising for the radio station. I, you know, found opportunities to be in sales internships. And by the time I graduated, I'd met my wife Elizabeth, and her mom introduced me to the concept or the idea or the career field of pharmaceutical

Pharma Sales And Career Pivot

Mark 9:35

sales. And I thought, wow, I want to be in pharmaceutical sales. So, long story short, I end up with one interview in pharmaceutical sales coming out of college with Pfizer, and I landed the job. And uh when I got into the job, there were 235 uh, you know, new reps in my training class, and three of us fresh out of college, very hard to get in. But I had been preparing for this since high school, and when I look at the influence that Jeff Dunn had on my life, um, and and what great leaders and great influences do is they see something in you that you don't see in yourself, and they bring it to light. And Mr. Dunn certainly did that in my life. And from the moment that he spoke into my life, I began preparing for what would be a very challenging opportunity getting into Pfizer and was able to get in right out of college, very successful with that. Uh, but then I decided I didn't like pharmaceutical sales. So I was in the industry for five years, and one day my dad sat me down. This is my dad that I told many times, Dad, I'm never coming into real estate. But he caught me in a weak moment in 2006 and he said, Son, look, I know you don't like what you're doing right now. And I've built a great name, great reputation, a great business, and I have no one to hand it to. And I really want you to consider coming into real estate. And I looked back at him, and we were sitting in a Mexican restaurant full circle, and I said, uh, I said, okay, I'll do it. And so that started my journey in real estate. Um, I ended up, I ended up with a small biotech for my last year in pharmaceutical sales. And man, it was a it was so hard to get out of bed every day. And I'm sure, you know, there's people probably listening right now that are doing something that they're struggling to get out of bed every day to go and do. And I'm just gonna say, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What's wrong is that you're not listening to um your heart, you have not found a passion yet. And for me, what happened was I was struggling every day. And eventually my territory wasn't doing very well. They had just launched a new drug, things were not going well with that drug nationally, but but my territory certainly wasn't doing very well. So they called me to a regional review. So I went with met with the regional manager up in Chicago, so flew from Dayton, Ohio up to Chicago, and I'm sitting with the regional manager and my manager, and they look at me and say, Mark, do you really feel like this is what you want to be doing long term? And everything inside of me said, say yes, say yes, say yes, and no came out of my mouth. So I flew to Chicago with my manager, and I flew back with a guy who was just a buddy of mine that used to be my manager, and that really accelerated me getting into real estate. And so I started real estate September of 2006, and here I am almost 20 years later, and I'm doing something I'm passionate about. So I'm passionate about one, helping my clients, and I think what I love about it is, you know, I get to walk someone through the process of buying or selling a home, um, you know, be a part of what they dream of, because homeownership in the United States, it's a big part of the American dream. And I get to be a part of that, but then it's not over there. Then it's the ongoing relationship. Like, like I get to see when they have their grandbabies, like you, Nathan, have grandbaby. Like I love seeing that. You know, I love hearing about that kind of stuff and the great things happening in your family. That's part of what I love about it, the relationship and getting to see you enjoy something that I was a part of, right? I sold you the home where your grandson is going to run in and say, Hi, grandpa, and open their Christmas presents, right? I mean, I get to be a part of that moment. And I think that's what I love about it, as opposed to pharmaceutical sales, where I never saw the end user. I never saw any joy from it. There was, it wasn't there. And so I love that about real estate.

Real Estate Purpose And Resilience

Mark 14:07

Now take it a step further where I I founded NAVEX Realty in 2020, and now I get to speak into agents' lives, you know, because uh, and and we we can talk more about my my journey, but man, I've had a hard journey, a hard journey in real estate. I lost everything in 2008 when the market crashed. And I've been through the pain of the market, and I've been discouraged, and I felt like giving up. And now I feel like I can take what I've been through. And the agents that I get the privilege to lead, I'm able to speak into their lives. Don't give up. Just do it one more day. Keep fighting, make one more call, make one more text, you know, send one more text, do the stuff, and you're going to have the success. But don't give up too soon before you get to experience the joy of it.

Nathan 14:59

I love that. And as a side note, yes, he runs into the house, my two-year-old grandson, and what I hear is Papa, I'm here. And then he comes flying into the room. I'm like, yes, but you love that. Oh, absolutely.

Mark 15:11

He's and that's what that's I get to, I feel like, even though I don't get to be there for that, I got to be a part of that. Yes, right. So, so there's a there's a lot of joy in getting to do that because I know that families that I've served for years, and I've served hundreds and hundreds of families over my 20 years of being in the business. And and over that time, I know I've gotten to be part of so many of those moments. And and when your grandson runs in, you're not thinking, oh, Mark sold us a house. But for me, I know that I was part of getting to create that moment in your home.

Nathan 15:44

Absolutely. And one of the things I wanted to ask you about from Aid Leadership, now it's not a direct correlation, but I do find that very successful leaders do have some type of successful sales background as well. Because I think there's some synergies there. And I would love to talk about what are some of those that you potentially think or link from a sales perspective to a leadership perspective. Because I think it's talk about what would make you a successful salesperson, what has made you a successful salesperson? Why do you get that sale? Why do you get that deal kind of closed versus somebody who else who may not be able to get that done?

Mark 16:20

Yeah. Well, so first off, as a as a realtor, as a real estate agent, um, I don't look at selling house. Like when I'm showing a house to a client, um, I don't sell the house to them, right? Um, where my sales really is, is I have to sell someone on trusting me through the process, right? So my sales happens up front. Then I get you through the journey. So um, you're gonna pick what house you like, right? I'm gonna take you through houses. Now I watch for certain things, like I see buying signals. Like you can tell when someone walks into the one, things change about their attitude. Now it turns into I'm advising them. I don't have to sell them on it. They'll sell themselves. I'm advising them on how to make good decisions, right? But if I look back at what has made me successful in sales, it's uh number one, personality. Okay. So, and some people don't have great personalities. However, you can develop the right personality for sales. And I think one of the early things that did that for me was back in uh grade school, high school, I was in drama. All right. And so I learned to be in front of people, to be very comfortable delivering lines, which a lot of what we do is, you know, we are delivering our presentation. Okay. So I think drama helped me with a lot of that. I took improv uh in high school. I learned to be quick on my feet. Then I did radio, where when I would come on the mic in radio, I didn't have a script in front of me. I mean, I knew I had planned out what my set was going to look like for the day, but I didn't have a script in front of me. And I became very comfortable uh with my personality and with uh with talking to people, right? Now, the challenge of that is like right now it's one-way talking. You and I are having a conversation, but you're interviewing me, and I'm gonna do most of the talking. So now I kind of have to shift in my mind uh to remember to stop and ask the questions, make the connections, right? Um, but I do believe that early on, those things, drama, radio, I believe that really helped to develop my personality and develop my skill uh in talking and presenting. But then the other thing is I say care and expertise. So I tell all of my agents, I'm like, look, if you're in this business and every time you get a lead or every time you close a sale, it's just a number to you, you're in the wrong business. Uh, because like I said before, everyone that we work with, um, we have to care for them. They are real people, right? They have real families, they have real dreams, they have real needs, and we need to care for those. And so that's one of my promises is that uh as as when you're my client, I'm gonna care for you through the process. And it's part of my personality. I um recently I had an agent. We were at an event for for all of our agents, and I tell people all the time I love them. I've probably told you that, Nathan, over the years. Because I genuinely, there's something inside of me that I genuinely love people. And so um, this agent, I told her, I said, Catrice, I love you. I think you're great. You know, later on, she was talking to uh one of our staff members, and she said, you know, Mark told me that he loves me and I believe him. And and I think if you're gonna be successful, you have to have a true desire to help the people that you serve. And and that is truly who I am. I have gotten to the place where I really care about them and care about their success. And I believe when you come care about the success of others, it is always going to come back uh to you. And the other thing is expertise, right? Um, when when it comes to you know real estate agents, if you look at the list of most trusted professions in the United States, uh real estate agents don't fall into the most trusted. Um, in fact, we fall at the bottom, like next to used car sales and attorneys, right? Um, but people don't trust their agents. Well, I think the reason for that is because so many people uh in this industry, they get into the business and then they don't practice their craft. They don't become excellent at their craft, they don't study their craft, they don't study and understand the market. They, you know, the the uh Bible says study to show yourself approved, right? So you have to actually study the things that you're out preaching. And so for me, one of my commitments is that I'm going to be an expert. And so I subscribe to national news, uh, you know, real estate news subscriptions that I have. I have um, you know, monthly reports that I read. And then every week I'm following different news. I read my own markets. Um, every year we send out an annual client uh home value report to our, to our uh, to our clients that shows them like what's the market doing around your house because we're continually studying the market. And so if I'm going to earn the trust of the people that I serve, they need to know that I care about them, but they also need to know that I have the knowledge, the understanding, the skill set. To really know what's going on in the market and help them make the best decision.

Nathan 22:05

100%. I think you hit on three things there that's really important for our listeners of this episode to take away from what you're talking about from a sales relationship directly links to somebody who runs a really strong team. And I just want to recap those three really quick, right? So personality slash presentation. How are you engaging with your team? How are you engaging with the people around you? Is it are you somebody they want to be around? Or are you somebody that they're trying to avoid? Right. So that's that aspect of how you show up. How are you engaging with them, the relationship side of things, right? Are you building trust with them? Do you genuinely care about that person to see them succeed and see them grow? Because if you are, when they grow into a new role, maybe it's on your team or off your team, or there's transitioning off into even another organization, you truly care and you're truly engaging with them in the right way, you're going to be happy for their success and you're going to help them do that transition. And the third one you talked about was expertise, right? Does your team that works for you, that works with you, know that you can help them through the things that they're going through? Or are you a functional head that has no idea how to do what they do? Right. And I think those three things you just talked about, how you become really successful and how you work through those challenges of working with clients and working through people from a sales perspective. But I would say it 100% links to your team and how you manage them. Absolutely. Absolutely. I just think that's so important because I love how you framed that. And I think that's really good for those who are listening. And I know for a fact we've got some college students who listen to this podcast. Yeah. So I would say as they're going through those things, think about those different ways of how you show up, how you care, how you build, and what kind of knowledge base you're growing and building for yourself that you will be able to show up for your team in the long run.

Mark 24:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I hope college kids listen to this kind of stuff because here's the thing. Um, you've got, of course, you as the host, um, you have such a wealth of leadership experience and high-level leadership experience. I have a wealth of leadership experience, but I also have a wealth of failure, and I'm sure you do too, right? Absolutely. And here's the thing a college kid listening, I'll just say, you're going to fail. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to make the big one at some point. However, failure is actually what propels us forward and makes us better. Okay. Because uh every time I failed, in the moment, it is so low. It's awful when you fail. And you have to admit to it, right? Be willing to admit for it to it for one. But um, you know, it's going to propel you forward. And while you might not see it in the moment, you'll look back in a couple of years and be like, wow, I'm so much better for this. And then you can listen to guys like Nathan and guys who have failed a lot, like me, and you can prevent some of those failures up front, but just know you're still going to fail and it's okay.

Nathan 25:22

Absolutely.

Failure, Discomfort, Teaching Mindset

Nathan 25:23

One of the things I like to tell people who I'm mentoring even through this podcast, I've mentioned this a couple of different times on different episodes, but it's always worth repeating because it goes directly to what you're just talking about. This failure aspect. One thing I always like to remind people is there's no growth and comfort. Right. If you're comfortable, if you're cruising along, are you growing and are you expanding and really increasing what you can do? Yeah. Probably not. You have to get uncomfortable. You have to lean into spaces where, oh, I may not be the best at that, but how do I grow and move into that new space? Transparently, I'm in one of those spaces right now where I'm doing something new within my organization. But I have always, and this is a good conversation to have with you, Mark, because I have avoided sales my entire life, my entire career. I will go back, like I've been in the industry that I'm in for over 30 years. If I go back, let's call it 20 plus years, the amount of times that I had leaders who tried to get me to move into sales, and I was like, nope, nope, nope, not gonna do it. That's not for me. I want to be the educator in the room. I don't want to be the guy selling you something. I wish I would have done that earlier. I would have made that transition. Now I'm doing that and I'm having some success in it, and I'm having some non-success in it, right? But I'm growing because I'm seeing, oh, yeah, that's probably not my my strength right there, but how do I fix it? How do I work through that? But I'm growing because I'm uncomfortable and I'm learning new things.

Mark 26:57

The interesting thing though is that I think you uh Dave Ramsey calls it hard of a teacher. I think this the best salespeople are not the ones that you know say all the right sales lines. And I mean, there are people like that, but I think in today's society, people don't want to be sold. And that's not my style. I'm not a hard closer. I ask the right questions to get there, but I'm not a hard closer. Um, but I have the heart of a teacher, and I think you're like that too. You love to teach people, and and when you teach people, I think it draws them to you, it almost endears them to you in a way that they want to do business with you. And so I think that's an incredibly important piece of the sales process. And if you want to be successful in today's world in sales, I think you need to have the heart of a teacher.

Nathan 27:52

Absolutely. And to build that trust, you have to be willing to always be transparent with them. And what I mean by that is I'm gonna go back many years now. And I used to sit in the room with a very large retailer and help them build display plans, build plan a grant like sets and how the grocery store is gonna be laid out, right? So how that shelf is gonna be laid out. I represented my company within that room, even though technically that wasn't something that we were supposed to be doing. The retailer trusted me enough to bring me into that process. As I was sitting there, I remember multiple times where he would look at me and go, All right, Nathan, like I've got this spot on this display. What product do you want on there of yours? Sometimes it was the right thing for me to do to say, Oh, yeah, it's this one. But other times, and where I built the trust with him was to say, you know what? I could you could do this, category manager. Or you know what, you don't have this private label product of yours on that display, and it does really, really good. And you need to put that there. And it was his product, not mine. And you go, oh, okay, no, that's a good call. Let me do that. Did my company win in that moment? Not necessarily, but did they win in the long run? Absolutely, because it was in those positions. Yeah, you won the marathon.

Mark 29:15

You won the marathon, is what it was. You won the long game. Yeah.

Nathan 29:19

You have to build that trust. And that's part of the leadership aspect too, right? Building those um ability to learn where to lean in and where not to from a to build the trust in the relationship with others so that they long term see you as someone that they can come to for things that they need.

Mark 29:39

Yeah, that's so good. Integrity, I I mean, I think it almost goes without saying that that um integrity should be the foundation of everything that you do, right? If you can't have a clear conscience, if you can't lay your your head on the pillow at night and know that you did was what was right for your customer throughout the day, then by all means, like you're in the wrong industry, right? I agree. And that's any industry. I think we all need integrity now.

Nathan 30:10

Absolutely.

Parents, Mentors, Servant Leadership

Nathan 30:11

Now, one of the things I wanted to ask you about, you mentioned the influence that the teacher had on you very young, right? And and how he kind of shaped and and helped you see some things that you needed to look at and go do. Think about other leaders that you've had, right? Whether that be from the pharma space or even potentially your father as you get into that real estate side of things, what are some of those things where you've had a really good leader and you go, oh, that that was actually something I want to emulate? Or maybe you had something, go, uh, I want to avoid that behavior. What are some of those aspects that you've experienced that you've taken on and have helped shape and guide you?

Mark 30:49

Yeah, I think uh my dad is truly one of the greatest leaders in my life. He um from a very young age um was a role model for me, a mentor for me, and really um very much shaped who I am as a leader today. But I I can't bypass my mom. And so, you know, my parents did something when I was nine years old. They started me in a mowing business. Um, and basically my uncle was a builder in town, still is to this day, uh now into the second generation with their family. And I uh my parents used to drop me off. My grandparents lived in this neighborhood, and my my uncle had built several spec homes in the neighborhood that were going on the market. And so my parents would drop me off, and I would go around and I would cut the five or six lawns and then I would go back and I would weed eat around all the houses and driveways, and and then I would go back and sweep them all, and they would come back and pick me up, and we'd do it all over again the next week. So that was when I was nine. Then my uncle called when I was 10 and he said, Hey, I've got an office complex and a condo complex that we've built, and we need someone to cut the grass. Do you think Mark could do that? So the very next day, my dad was out with me buying a commercial mower because we had to have a commercial mower to do that. And uh went to a guy in the neighborhood that there was this house in the neighborhood that had this red trailer sitting out front, never moved. And so he went up and knocked on the door and said, Hey, uh, we're starting a mowing business. My son needs a trailer. Would you sell us your trailer? They sold us that trailer, which by the way, I had for like 36 years after that. Some cra not some crazy amount of time after that. I think uh I just got rid of it in the last two years. Um, but but that said, uh, my mom started cutting grass with me from the time I was 10 until I was 16 and could drive myself. And that early leadership in my life, she taught me how to do the job right the first time. Uh, she taught me how to do customer service, how to go up and talk to a customer about issues or when an issue would arise, how to handle that. Um, she showed me how to manage my time and manage my money and manage employees because we had a few other kids my age that we would bring out to work with us, and she would uh teach me how to lead them. And so my mom's early influence on my life was huge. And then there was my dad who would show up on those sites. You know, I remember we were at Summit Ridge Condos. It was a big complex that my uncle had built, and we were out there mowing. My dad, a realtor, shows up in his suit in the middle of the day and grabs a weed eater while he's in his suit and is weed eating all over the place just to help us out and teaching me that work ethic. Um, that you know, you do what it takes to get the job done. And so uh what an impact they had when I was young. And then fast forward, I think the way that my dad has taught me to lead, one, he's been through really hard stuff with me, and he's been through really hard stuff. And so when I got in the low moments of my life, he was there to lead me through it, not to be condemning, uh, not to call me a failure, but to bring encouragement, to bring life, to pray with me. And in fact, one of my favorite things is that I talk to my dad almost every morning. And many of those mornings, if I'm going through something or you know, I mentioned something that I'm dealing with, he says, we're gonna pray about that before we get off the phone. And so many of my mornings talking to my dad end with him praying for me, and what a blessing that has been in my life. So um I've learned so much about leadership from from parents who led me when I was young. Um, now I have, I mean, I've certainly seen poor leadership in my day. Um, and here's what it really comes down to. I think the leaders that I've either been under or the leaders that I've observed are the kind of leader that I would never want to follow, uh, are the ones that they are leading for themselves, right? They they lead with what is best for me first, not what is best for you know, the person that I'm leading. And I think if you look biblically at that, Jesus says, I did not come into the world to be served, but to serve. And so, you know, we as we're recording this, we've just gotten past Easter, and you have, you know, if uh for those who are Christians out there, I'm a Christian, I'm a follower of Jesus, and I look at this guy is the king of the universe. Like he he speaks and things come into existence, right? The the world was created through him, and yet he lowered himself and became a servant and gave everything for us, right? And so, as that example, that's the kind of person I want to follow, which is probably why 2,000 years after he rose from the dead, there are millions and millions and millions of people who have followed them. Many of them have lost their lives uh for him, and they are are still, people are still following to this day. But it's the leaders who they want the glory, right? They want to get the attention out of it. And let me tell you, if you're a growing leader out there, as someone that leads uh a lot of agents, and uh, you know, I've been in leadership positions, they just seem to find me all of my life. And as someone who does that, sometimes it's hard when you're working your tail off and you just want to tell someone, hey, look at me for once, right? Like I'm doing all this for you. Look at me, but it won't get you anywhere, and no one wants to follow a leader that's about themselves. But if you lead from a place of how can I get others to reach their dreams, how can I help others reach their destination, then you will always be a leader worth following. And again, the leaders that I've seen or been under, where it's all about you serve me, then I'm like, I don't want to be under that leader, right? And so, so I want to be the kind of leader that is sacrificial. I'm not great at it. I'm not, I'm not touting how great I am because every day there's this piece of me that wants the the attention, that wants the recognition. But if you can become the leader that says, okay, I'm uh without recognition, I'm gonna do this because it's the right thing to help them get where they need to go, then you're always gonna be a leader worth following.

Nathan 38:02

Agreed. And I think we all have that, right? It's a naturally human thing, right? When you are really trying to help somebody develop or you're working on something that's very challenging, you want that kind of recognition to some degree. But absolutely to your point, and I think I want to throw in the the terminology that some of these younger folks may hear that called as in the industry, servant leadership, right? It's exactly what you're talking about. What that means is basically putting others ahead of yourself, yeah, right. And and how do you do that? And how do you truly do that and making sure that they're taken care of? And that is something that I will say over the years, I've been, I don't want to say reprimanded for, but I will say guided that why are you doing all of this for your team, they need to do, which there's a balance, I will say. You can't do everything for your team. They otherwise you're taking away opportunities for them to learn and grow. But on the flip side of that, if I can stop them from losing time with their family over a weekend, or I can filter something out that doesn't need to get from them that they never see, I'm going to do it in order to protect them, in order to keep them focused on the areas that they need to focus on. But I think if you think about that, what you've been talking about is 100% servant leadership. So as they hear that in the industry, they hear that as they're coming out of college, think about what that means. It's putting those others ahead of yourself.

Mark 39:34

Yeah, and what you're saying, too, uh for the developing leaders out there, it's not a lack of delegation, because I think you can be a servant leader but delegate well. Correct. Too. And I think that is really where for me, uh as I've developed out as a leader, I've had to learn that there's certain things that I'm great at. In fact, uh, have you read the book Working Geniuses by um it's by uh uh Lencioni, Patrick Lencioni? I have not. Okay, so that's one I recommend everybody read that one.

Delegation And Working Genius

Mark 40:06

But uh in the book, which it's it's a really well-written book. I love how Lencioni writes. He writes um, I guess you would call it like allegories. He tells stories that make the the business point. And in this one, he talks about the six types of working genius. So you've got it's it's with the acronym widget. So you've got one wonder, invention, uh, discernment, um, galvanizing, enabling, and tenacity. Those are the six working geniuses, and I'm not going to go into all the detail on it, but realizing the things that I'm great at. I am someone who is great at invention. When someone who is a wonderer sees, you know what, I think this could be different. How could this be different? I'm the guy that steps in with all the ideas of how we can make things better, and that's how my mind works, and I'm great at that. The other thing I'm great at is I'm a galvanizer. And so I'm the guy, the rah-rah guy, that once we've decided to move forward on a project, I'm gonna go in and get people excited about it. And this is where, like as a public speaker, I do public speaking, real a lot of real estate education and keynotes across the country. And when I get in front of people, my goal is to help raise their level of professionalism. I want to elevate professionalism with them, but I'm gonna do that because I'm a galvanizer. I want to get them on board with all the value of being a better professional, of using these, this skill set to be better, right? Um, but understanding that that's what I'm great at and knowing like tenacity, which is the ability to finish something. Like some people they get life from finishing a project. I can't tell you the last time that I was able to fully finish a project. I've got great people around me who do, though, right? So, like, as an example, in the real estate transaction, paperwork is the bane of my existence. And so I am I'm great with being with the clients. One of my favorite things is being with the clients, seeing the smile on their face, you know, like seeing the excitement, but all of that back end calls, back and forth, processing. I would rather be in front of people. And so I've got someone on the back end that she thrives on finishing, on taking that process through and getting people to the closing table, because I realize that my skill set, what I am great at, is better used leading in front of people, right? Than doing all of that stuff that's not going to get done well if I do that. And so if you want to be a great leader, one, find out what you're great at. I recommend Six Types of Working Genius. Great book to understand what you're great at, but it also tells me what I'm not great at and what I need to bring other people into the room so that they enhance what I'm great at and I enhance what they're great at.

Nathan 42:59

I love that. I'm gonna have to read that one because I've not read that one. The the ones that I've read that are really kind of leaning into this similar kind of space is strengths builders, right? Really leaning into that one and understanding, okay, where are my strengths that I need to utilize and how does that relate to my team? And how do we all come together and utilize our strengths in the right way? Same kind of concept there, but I will have to read that book because I'm actually very interested in that one.

Mark 43:24

That's a good one. Really well. It's a really easy read. It's kind of a fun read, uh, the way that he wrote it. So nice.

Nathan 43:30

I will have to do that. Thank you for that one. All right, believe it or not, we are coming to the end of our time together. So I just had a few really quick, what I would like to call rapid reflections. Okay. And so these are share as much as you feel comfortable sharing. You don't want to answer it, that's fine too. You can tell me that let's move on from that one. And that's okay. Um, so let's start with the

Biggest Failure: Moving Too Fast

Nathan 43:51

first one. What is your biggest failure as a leader?

Mark 43:56

Wow, I've had a lot of them. I think. Yeah. How much time do we have here? You said we're coming to a close, didn't you? Are we starting a new podcast? No. I would say my biggest failure as a leader is I tend to jump fast. Like I feel like I run an agile company. Um, you know, I want to sign up for this latest, greatest software platform, and I'm ready to jump. Uh, I am ready to make the quick decisions. I expect the decision today, you know, and I lead a team. I've got a wonderful, amazing leadership team. And sometimes I jump fast and then I leave them picking up the pieces of everything I broke along the way. And so it's been one of my biggest mistakes. Um, it's cost us money. It has cost us a tremendous amount of time. Now, that doesn't mean I'm not willing to take risks and try something different that may or may not succeed, but sometimes I jump into it too fast. So, what I've learned, going back to the six types of working genius, one of those is discernment. And so that's not, it's not like biblical discernment. A lot of times we hear that thrown around where you know you talk about someone having discernment. What this discernment is, and Patrick, I've heard Patrick Lincioni talk about this, it's it's a discernment where you can analyze or take a look at a potential project or you know, uh an initiative that you want to go into in the company, and you can kind of break it down and think through all the pieces and the problems that could happen and and how to get out ahead of those things, and then help make a good decision on whether or not we move ahead on that. And so that's one of the things that um I've learned that when I'm gonna make a big decision, and I'll give you an example. We have a chance to expand into another state right now, and I'm talking to a broker there, and uh they're kind of they're they're uh gung ho, they're excited. And and anytime you're expanding, for a guy like me, for a leader like me who just loves to jump, it's like, yeah, let's go. You know, I want it to happen tomorrow. What I've learned to do, though, is I have to stop and I have to say, you know what? I'm gonna bring my discerners into the room and I'm gonna present the whole thing to them and I'm gonna let them pick it apart. Now, what I've learned, because I always felt like when they're picking it apart, they're criticizing me, right? I've learned though, that's not criticism. That is seeing that Mark has a vision. I am a visionary. That is that's who I am. So I have this big vision, and all they're doing is saying, okay, how can we help Mark get to that vision? But to get there, first we might have to break a few things and figure that out so that later we don't end up broken. Does that make sense?

Nathan 46:56

Absolutely. And I think honestly, if you're looking at and you have people around you that are willing to do that and to provide that um direct feedback critically to you, that shows how much they care about you as a leader. Because if they didn't care, they'd say, Oh, yeah, let's go for it. Exactly. And we have to learn that as leaders that when somebody's giving us that type of feedback, critical or whatever, take that in and understand it for what it is, is that they're caring about what you're doing and what you're working towards. It's not a now, you could have people who are out there to doing that to try to tear you down in some aspects, but for the most part, I would look at that as that somebody who really cares about what you're doing and what you're trying to build.

Mark 47:42

And that's exactly what it is. And the way that I had to come to that conclusion, unfortunately, is by making dumb decisions without pulling them in, hurting people, right? Hurting people that I love, because my team, you know, they're they are some of the most loyal people you will ever meet. And I've hurt them because of decisions that I've made without pulling them in on time. And I've left a lot of broken pieces in the wake. Now, though, through honest conversation, praise the Lord, I've got people who will come to me and say, okay, Mark, we need to fix this. And they will address it with me. And I always tell people, you can come to me. I wear big boy pants, and if we need to have big boy conversations, I'll pull on my big boy pants and we'll talk about it and we'll all get better together. And and I've got a team that does that, and I'm so thankful for them because otherwise we wouldn't, we wouldn't be here today. We would have made, we would have mistaked our way out of business, but but because of great people that that are willing to address those things, we're

Biggest Win: Family Legacy

Mark 48:46

here.

Nathan 48:46

Okay, we've probably covered a little bit, but the flip side of that biggest success, something you're most proud of as a leader.

Mark 48:52

Man, um I didn't even get into my personal vision today, but I have a personal vision uh that back in 2008, I was in the middle of losing everything. And that personal vision became to leave a legacy spiritually and financially that would impact the generations of my family. And so spiritually, uh, the impact or the legacy that I want to leave is I'm a Christian, follower of Jesus. I've talked about that. And it is my deep heart's desire that my children would also know and follow the Savior that I love. And then financially, I do want to leave a nice inheritance for my family. But but beyond that, uh, I want to teach them generosity. And we call it extreme generosity in our family. And it's about living life with open hands, right? So if I live a life where my hands are open and I'm willing to give of what I have time, talent, my resources, I'm willing to give of that, then guess what? My hands are open when I need something, and I can then receive it, right? As opposed to living a life with closed hands, uh, keeping everything to yourself. And then when you need something, well, because you've been living with closed hands, there's no way for you to possibly receive anything, any blessings that come your way, you know? And so I've wanted to teach my kids these principles. And so um, in terms of my leadership success, now that my son is about to graduate college and my daughter is uh finishing her final year of ministry school, and I see one that they're following in the faith, and not just following in it, but they're gonna have big impact on the world around them. Um, but then I also see generous hearts and uh open hands with them, you know? Um and then my 16-year-old daughter, man, she blows my mind every day. Uh, and she hasn't graduated yet, but I'm just I I look at my kids and I'm so blessed. And so um I don't know if I don't know if I can actually take the leadership um credit for that because I did marry way up in the world, and my wife is a phenomenal mom. I mean, she's a phenomenal wife, but what an incredible mom that they've had uh that has led them so well. But just to know that I got to be a part of that and I had a vision for it, and now to see it happen, I would call that my greatest leadership success.

Advice: Don’t Miss The Moments

Mark 51:28

That's awesome.

Nathan 51:29

Last question for you. Okay. If you could give a piece of advice to your younger self based on what you know now about life or leadership, either one, you take your choice, and thinking about our younger audience now, what would that be?

Mark 51:45

That's a it's funny you asked this question. I ask a similar question on my podcast, and you know, I think it would be lean in to every moment and every season. And the reason I say that is because I just told you my how my how old my kids are finishing college, and uh my sister actually this morning sent me a picture of my 20-year-old daughter, she's the one finishing her third year of of ministry school here and going to be going into full-time ministry work. She sent me a picture of her in her car seat when she was about six months old. And let me tell you, when I look at that picture, it feels like yesterday. And when I look at my career, and we haven't even got we didn't get into the full story of being a workaholic and all the things that I've been through, all the failures that I've had, but I missed a lot of moments. And so when I talk to young people today, and if you're listening as a young person and you don't get anything else out of this, your marriage is the most important thing in your life. That whoever you marry, um, that is your A number one priority, and then your children, because you're never going to watch your children go off to college and say, gosh, I wish I had worked more instead of coaching my daughter or coaching my son or being at every game. You know, when I was a kid, my dad was a high-producing realtor and didn't miss any of my games. And I've been blessed in my life to not only not miss many of the games, but I coach. And and I'm not only doing games, I'm doing praxis. I coach high school varsity girls' basketball for my daughter. Like it is it is a huge commitment, but I'm never gonna look back and regret that, right? What I would regret though is if I spent all of that time at work and missing those moments and not leaning into those moments and not leaning into those seasons and realize I missed it and not have those relationships. You don't get that time back. I know it sounds so cliche, but you don't get it back. So lean into every moment, lean into every season, and find joy in it. Because honestly, work can bring you some joy, but it's it's really all temporary because I'm looking at my life, you know, almost 47 years old, and I I look at my life, my career, and I have a long way to go. I'm still gonna have a lot more impact, right? I've got a lot more lives to touch in my industry, but I'm not gonna look back and celebrate how much money I made. I'm I'm gonna look back and I'm gonna celebrate the people in my lives or in my life. And so lean into the moments, lean into the seasons, don't miss those things.

Host Takeaways And Closing

Nathan 54:54

And that is a perfect final thought. I love that. And thank you so much, Mark, for joining us on this uh conversation today around life and leadership stories. I think it was a fantastic one, and I hope our listeners value the all of the insights that they have received today.

Mark 55:10

Well, thank you, Nathan. It's a blessing to be on with you.

Nathan 55:13

And that wraps up today's conversation with Mark. And there's a lot to take with you, whether you're early in your leadership journey or looking to level up. At the core, it all comes back to how you show up, serving others, building trust through care and expertise, and staying grounded in integrity. And maybe the most important reminder don't get so focused on success that you miss the moments that actually matter. Lean into the season you're in, keep learning from both wins and failures, and continue growing into the kind of leader people truly want to follow. Thank you for listening. Thank you for showing up for your own growth. If Mark's story resonated with you, I hope you'll come back for future episodes and hear from even more leaders. If this episode inspired you, share it with someone who needs encouragement today. And remember, trust your gut, be kind, lead with purpose, and never underestimate your impact. Until next time, I'm Nathaniel Norker, and this is Life and Leadership Story.