BONUS Episode - The Power of Executive Coaching

We sit down with executive career coach Valerie Plis to unpack why experienced leaders get stuck and how structured feedback can turn uncertainty into momentum. We share how tiny, consistent behavior changes and a clear leadership brand can reshape how people experience you at work. 
• Why leaders seek executive coaching 
• Debunking the stigma that coaching is only for failing leaders 
• Intent vs impact as the root of most leadership blind spots 
• Why confidential, targeted feedback beats broad input 
• Turning meeting presence into an intentional practice 
• Micro behaviors that compound over time, especially under pressure 
• Avoiding autopilot leadership and the cost of low awareness 
• Strategic visibility as the shift from doing to influencing 
• Defining a leadership brand 
• Why forced coaching backfires and how messaging changes buy-in 
• External vs internal coaching and the role of trust 
• Rapid reflections on self-awareness, not needing all the answers, and asking better questions 

Transcript

Why Coaching Matters For Leaders

Nathan 0:22

It's a little different and a really valuable one for those of you who are already in leadership roles or who are actively working towards that next level. I'm joined by Valerie Plis, executive career coach and founder of Strengths Builders LLC. Valerie has spent her career helping leaders unlock their potential, overcome blind spots, and make the kind of small but powerful behavioral shifts that can dramatically accelerate growth. I've personally worked with Valerie in my own leadership journey. So this conversation is both professional and very personal for me. If you've ever felt stuck or wondered how others actually perceive your leadership or questioned what it takes to move from being a good leader to a truly great one, this episode is for you. Valerie Pliss today, who is an executive career coach and super excited to have you on the show today, just to talk through some of your experiences, but also some more details around executive coaching and what that looks like. I know I had a fabulous experience working with you, and I'm super excited to have you really talk about what this process looks like and how that affects leadership. But thank you for joining me.

Valerie 1:33

Oh thank Nathan, thank you for inviting me. Uh, super excited to talk about something I'm passionate about today. And thank you for inviting me.

Nathan 1:42

Absolutely. So excited.

Valerie’s Path Into Executive Coaching

Nathan 1:44

So let's start with a little bit about your story first, some of your career progression, and really how you ended up where you are today.

Valerie 1:53

Okay, long story short, my background is uh in human resources, primarily in organizational development. So I was focused on uh leadership development, team development, workforce development. I've also had uh broader HR roles where my team was responsible uh for the HR functions within organizations. Early in my career, after getting into HR, what I realized was I did not like the compliance, the policies, the, you know, the task side, the business side of HR. What I really loved was developing people. And there were two disciplines, executive coaching and strengths-based leadership. Those were two. When I learned about them, I'm like, oh my gosh, that that's me. That's how I want to approach. I want that to be my approach and helping to develop people. So in 2003, I became a certified executive coach. And then in 2006, I became a Gallup certified strengths coach. I immediately started working with, I would say, clients with some of the most significant barriers to successful employment, and I had wonderful experience just trying and figuring out what worked and what didn't work, and absolutely loved it. And my clients were getting exceptional results. So in 2009, I branched off on my own, started my own business, Strengths Builders, uh, LLC. And uh since then I've had the privilege of working with some of the greatest leaders and teams from around the globe, and the rest is history. So that's my background.

Nathan 3:42

I love it. And that's where sometimes I think like I missed my calling to some degree very early in my career. One of my favorite roles I ever did was a corporate trainer. And the one that I looked back on and I'm like, why did I ever leave that job? Um, but I wouldn't be doing what I did today if I didn't leave that job. Yeah, I think you're favorite.

Valerie 4:00

Yeah, but knowing you, you do some of those things, those same skills you write that you loved about training, you do that in your leadership. And I think that's what makes you such an amazing leader.

Nathan 4:11

Oh, thank you. It's so much fun. I absolutely love it. And I mentioned earlier, you and I worked very closely together through some challenging, uh I wouldn't say necessarily challenging, but some um areas of improvement that I needed. Sure, opportunity journey. Yeah, absolutely. And it was very successful for me. Um, I actually just the last episode I just recorded that'll be coming out in um be just before this episode uh was with my leader at that time when you and I were working together. And him and I talked about that a little bit and how he saw me progress and there. So it was a lot of fun to really see that come to life from his perspective. Sure.

Valerie 4:49

I will have to listen to that one for sure.

When Leaders Plateau And Seek Feedback

Nathan 4:52

It was a lot of fun, but I want to dive in because I think what I wanted the listeners to get out of this episode is just a little bit different than what we normally do, right? So I normally spend a lot of time on the episodes talking to leaders about their background, things that they've learned, things that they've done differently, successes, failures, all those fun things that they've had. Where and that's more for younger leaders or people who want to get into leadership. And for this episode, I really wanted to help those existing leaders really focus in on oh, what are some things that I should be thinking about within my career and how to develop myself, even though I may have been a leader now for years? How what are those opportunities? What does that look like? So, some questions for you. What types of leaders typically seek out executive coaching and what's usually happening in their careers when they do that? Why are they coming to you?

Valerie 5:43

That's a great question. And generally, when a leader seeks out coaching, kind of like you, they either want to, they've either plateaued and they're not sure what they need to do differently in order to move to that next level, or they want to advance quickly. Either way, they're missing objective feedback that in a structured way to help help them move to that next stage, whether they want either plateaued or they want to move quickly, they're missing some critical components. And so I think that that's what really inspires them or compels them to seek out uh to seek out coaching.

Nathan 6:27

Yeah, that was definitely my experience. Can you kind of mention that a little bit, right? I felt like I was like at this like plateau, so to speak. I think that's a great description there that was going on for me. And I was really kind of poking and prodding, but not getting what I needed to do specifically. And I think some of that came in just how we approached working together and what ultimately that did. But that was exactly what started that for me. So glad it's not just me and you to me. The challenges I was having. So, what are the most common misconceptions that these experienced leaders have about coaching?

Valerie 7:04

I would say the the most common misconception is that executive coaching is for leaders who are experiencing problems or they're failing. They're failing. And so there's a sometimes in some organizations, there can be a stigma attached to it if you're working with an executive coach. It really depends upon, it really depends on the culture of the organization and and what those senior leaders in that organization think about coaching.

Nathan 7:40

I like that too, because I think that that is, there shouldn't be a stigma attached to that because it is about development. And I think when I look at somebody who's doing that, this is my own perception, is probably why I have no problems talking about the coaching that I had with you on in obviously a very public format, is I feel like that's a development tool. It's something that if you're not getting the development where you are or what's going on within your current career, find a way to get it. Yes. And lean on a coach who can help you get there by giving you the feedback that you may not be getting elsewhere.

Valerie 8:15

Yeah, Nathan, you are you are my poster child. And I tell when I'm in front of uh when I teach at uh Xavier Leadership Center and a couple of other universities. And when I'm in front of new leaders or I'm in front of seasoned leaders, it doesn't matter. I really challenge them. Take ownership to your own development. Don't wait for someone in HR, don't wait for your leader to sit down and say, it's time for us to put a development plan together. Do what you need to do to develop yourself, invest in yourself so that you can have more control over your career.

Nathan 8:59

And wouldn't you say that there's a lot of times where your leadership may be looking for you to do that?

Valerie 9:04

Because it is your responsibility. Absolutely. They may not come right out and and and ask you to do it or tell you that you need to do it, but you if you if you look closely, you can see the disconnects. They're wanting you to do more, they expect you to do more, but you not you may not know what more is, and you may not know how to get there, and you're waiting on them to tell you. And it just, I often equate it to, you know, it's a swing and a miss. It's like, you know, a batter that gets to the to the the batter's box, they're over home plate, the ball comes in, they swing at it, but there's a miss and they don't know why. And so executive coaching can help help you figure out just have more detail around what you're swinging at, when you should swing, what does a home run look like, what do I need to do differently when I step up to the bat? What does that actually look like? And I think if a leader doesn't own that and take control of that, then who will? And when will they?

Nathan 10:14

Yes. Absolutely. And I would say in my experience, and this is what kind of brought me to you to some degree, right? I thought I was showing up one way.

Valerie 10:24

Yes.

Nathan 10:24

And what was really interesting is when you and I were working through the process, feedback told a very different story when it came to meetings. I thought was a really good example from my background of look, I thought I was showing up one way and the perceptions were very, very different. How common is that gap for leaders?

Intent Versus Impact And The Feedback Gap

Valerie 10:42

Um, that is extremely common because most leaders operate from a place of good intention, but they don't really understand the impact, and there is a difference between the two. You can have all the best intentions one way, but those intentions experienced by other people have a different impact. And so I think that's why feedback is extremely, extremely critical. Because here's a stat for you 95% of people believe that they are self-aware, but in reality, only 10 to 15% of people actually operate from a place of self-awareness. So there's there's this huge gap between what they what they think they're doing and what they're actually doing. And executive coaching helps fill in that gap with feedback. And with you, there were, you know, for me, I there's two types of feedback. There's feedback, like the feedback I did for you was it was more uh a coach, a coach-based conversation that I had with key leaders that you wanted feedback from. There's also digital formats or online platforms where you can uh solicit feedback as well. The key here is that that feedback is super confidential and that it's presented in a way that does not put the individual on the defense, but helps them remain open-minded and thinking about possibilities and opportunities and what and looking at that that feedback as a gift.

Nathan 12:29

Absolutely. I remember specifically you got done with all of my like all the interviews that you did with my, I can't, I think it was like 15 or something different individuals that you talked to, and you had compiled it all, and then we met in person at Starbucks. I remember sitting there vividly at the table, and you gave me a big old packet, and you're like, all right, you have your highlighter that I told you to bring. Go through and start highlighting the things that stand out to you that maybe you think is right, maybe you think is wrong, but go through it and do that really quick, and then we'll discuss. And so I remember this is it burned into my head, which I thought was so funny to me, actually. But I was like, for me, I was like, oh, well, what kind of what does she deal with with other leaders through this process? That was what was in my head. Because as I'm highlighting and going through it, I just remember like out of the corner of my eye seeing you lean down and like looking at my face. I just stopped and looked up and you're like, Are you okay? I was like, Yeah, I'm great. This is wonderful. Like, this is so freeing. Because it was so much information that I found such a wealth of knowledge and understanding in that I didn't have otherwise. Yes. The one thing I've always wanted as is that I'm guessing that's probably not the response you get a lot from people. But that was me. I was like, yes, this is great, like this is awesome. But just that that process of you going, are you all right? Like, is everything good? I just thought it amusing.

Valerie 14:00

It can go either way, right? I I I try to assess in advance how I think someone's going to respond to the feedback. Um, and in your case, you were so open-minded about it. And I remember you being surprised at some of it. It's like, why didn't they tell this? Why didn't they tell me? Yes, right. But being able to take that information and do something positive with it, that that's the that's the turning point. And I think that's really the value of coaching, is knowing how to get that objective feedback and turn it into fuel that helps project you and helps you achieve those coaching goals that you set out to achieve in a very structured way, where it removes the guesswork. And I think that's what accelerates people's development, and that's what accelerates a client's progress, uh, is when they have that structured approach rather than just happenstance, right? And and fumbling, why would you want to fumble through your career when you have the opportunity to get the the help and the support and the direction that you need to move through that process much faster?

Nathan 15:19

And I think one of the keys for me, and I I went into this knowing that this was something that I went after, right? I sought something I was looking for. And for me, it was almost freeing to some degree, but I I also looked at it as it was that gift, and it wasn't something that I should take personally because I asked for it. Right. And I think there is that danger of um those who are getting feedback as leaders, whether they reject it or whether they rationalize and and own it, right? And that's from my perspective. I don't know how you know if there's anything else you want to build on that. But I think that that was one, the way that I approached it was okay, I've asked for this. This is something that is such a gift for me because I'm not getting a lot of this within the org at the moment. How do I take it on and improve?

Valerie 16:13

Yeah. No, you're absolutely right, Nathan. It is, it is a gift, and and you can either reject it or you can take ownership to it and use it, like I said, to propel you forward. I think there's also something very important to remember, and that is when you're soliciting feedback, it is absolutely critical that you don't just throw throw out a broad net. That feedback you're soliciting has to be tied to your development goals. You want to be very, if you want feedback to be valuable, then you need to be specific in what you're asking for.

Nathan 16:48

Yes.

Valerie 16:49

Don't ask for everything. Ask, ask about your communication skills, what you could be doing better, right? And I think again, that's the value of coaching. You you change you you use a very targeted approach to get the feedback that you're looking for to help in your development that is directly tied to those compelling goals in your career, and it all just fits together into this better process.

Micro Shifts That Change Presence

Nathan 17:20

I love that. Want to look at some thinking about behavioral shifts, and this is kind of like that outcome of what you're kind of getting through that coaching. And I've been very open about this in my book through this chapter I I covered on leadership, and it was all about our experience together. Um, but in my case, one of the things I was hearing, and again, I've been very open about this, so I have no challenges talking through it, is from a meeting perspective, when I would go into meetings, I always took this um approach of I'm not gonna talk just to talk. I'm not, I don't want to be that person who's gonna talk over others. So I kind of hold back. And if everything's said in the meeting that needs to be said, I am okay, fine. And then I'm done and I go. But if there's something that I'm going to put into the discussion, I will. So I saw this one way, others saw this very different. Yes. Right? They saw me as not paying attention, not understanding, not caring, like not contributing. Yes, exactly. And that caught me off guard. And so I did something that was when we were chatting, I came up with I called intentional vocalization. That I was going to set out a plan. And actually, what it helped me do was to really sit and think about the meetings a little bit more ahead of time and game plan them and say, okay, I'm gonna come up with this, I'm gonna come up with that. And if nobody says this, or even if they do, like, that's okay, how do I put a different take on it? But that changed the perceptions of me dramatically within the organization, which I just blew my mind. I'm like, I didn't really change anything other than maybe contributed a little bit more than I would have. And it was funny, you know, talking to Annabel, who I had worked with, that was in the last um podcast that just went out episode. He was saying, Well, I he told me he's like, I know you were like that. And I would listen if you said something because you were always very choiceful. But for others who did not know me that well, they saw it completely differently. Why do, in your opinion, why do small behavioral shifts like that have an outsized impact? Because that did have an outsized impact on me, that I just wasn't prepared. I was wow, how did that change so much?

Valerie 19:37

Yes. So, first of all, that is a prime example of the difference between having good intentions but having uh an unexpected impact, right? And so for you, you started making these little minor tweaks, and this is what I have found. Good leaders who want to move to become a great leader, it doesn't require this major overhaul, they don't have to dramatically change their approach or even change who they are. I'm not trying to change who people are. What I am trying to do is help them make these little micro behavioral shifts that when they are consistent, they when the leader is consistent in a small daily discipline, there is a compound effect. It's like throwing this little tiny pebble into water, and what happens? There's a little wake, right? There's a ripple, and then that ripple creates another ripple, and then that ripple, and then before you know it, you can look out across the water and you see that the impact that that one little tiny behavioral change has made or did make um in your you know, in your impact. And I think that's that's the power of those small, disciplined, consistent, daily changes. There's that compound effect that is worth that's worth gold. That's gold.

Nathan 21:15

Absolutely. So, what are some other examples? So I talked about from my perspective, it was how I was showing up in the meetings. It was just a small tweak that I did. Honestly, it did not take me a ton of effort to do so, right? Just to speak up in a meeting or to engage in a different way than I was before. But what are some examples of some of these micro behaviors that you feel disproportionately influence a leader's presence?

Valerie 21:40

That's a great question. And there are so many, I wouldn't even know where to begin. The I think the challenge isn't the challenge is knowing what are those small shifts that you can make that will have that huge impact. But the bigger challenge is showing up consistently every day, especially under pressure. It's easy to make those small incremental changes when everything is going right, right? Like you're preparing in advance for the meeting, and the meeting is going well. But how do you remain consistent when pressure is applied? And I think that's where there's the bigger opportunity to build self-awareness and self-management in those moments of pressure to make sure that you are still remaining consistent in those small behavioral shifts that you intend to make so that you can have the impact that you want. Did that make sense?

Nathan 22:54

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's the one thing I would add on to that from my perspective, because I still do it, is I go back and visit my themes a couple times a year. And I that we worked on several years ago now, right? It's been quite a while. But I still go back and visit those.

Valerie 23:12

Your clift and strengths themes.

Nathan 23:15

No, like what we worked on. What were the things that we need to develop? But I love my cliff and still work through those too. But um, like the actual plan of attack. And I go, am I still living up to these things? Am I still doing what needs to be done? Because it's easy to fall back into old habits, which are the things that I was doing that I thought were okay.

Valerie 23:36

Yes.

Nathan 23:36

And if I fall back into that, I'm gonna end up in the same kind of spot that I was before.

Valerie 23:40

Yes, absolutely. And Nathan, I call that autopilot leadership. You're flying, you're so you're you're flying, but because there's you've lowered your level of self-awareness and social awareness, you're not as aware of the impact that you're having around you. You're just going through the routine, and that is a dangerous place in a leader's career.

Nathan 24:06

Absolutely. And one public service announcement to the leaders out there for their teams. And this happens in personal daily life, but I've also seen it from leaders. Put your cell phone down when you're talking with somebody, especially your team. Don't let that distract you because they see that. Yes. And what does that relate to them? You don't care what they're saying.

Valerie 24:27

Yes.

Nathan 24:28

Not paying attention to what they're trying to get across to you. So really quick PSA for all those out there. Yeah. Whether that's a personal situation or a leader, leaders, put your cell phone down. It's okay. Yes. That text will be there in a moment when the person's done talking to you.

Valerie 24:43

That is another prime example of a micro behavior, right? That if you just change that one thing, there will be a huge impact, ripple effect from doing that one thing.

Nathan 24:56

Absolutely. And it's just one that you just look at, you go, okay. I and I know that's not intentional, but they don't even realize that they're doing that.

Valerie 25:04

They don't realize it. And they don't realize the message that that is sending.

Nathan 25:09

Absolutely, because it does send a very clear message to their team. So let's talk about um one big shift for me was realizing that I didn't need permission anymore. And I kind of talked about this a little bit ago because it was freeing for me. And that was something that I think I was waiting on through my process of, oh, like I can't go off and do that within the organization as a leader, even though I know what I want to accomplish. I couldn't go do that because I was waiting on permission from others around me. But it was really freeing to get some of that feedback because they were almost waiting on me to do the things that I wanted to do. So, how often are leaders waiting for signals that never come?

Valerie 25:48

Um, I really think it depends on the individual's behavioral style. So you had good intentions, you didn't want to put yourself out there, you wanted to give space for everybody else, right? Yes. And so I think that's your behavioral style. My behavioral style, I tend to have to ask for forgiveness rather than asking for permission, right? So for me, I what I try to do, first of all, as a coach, it's understanding the person's behavioral style. First of all, what are their strengths? How can they leverage them, but also giving them the tools to be able to navigate conversations in a way where they can say, for example, ask for feedback or ask for clarity, ask for expectations, ask for what does success look like, to take a more proactive approach to asking for the information that they need in order to advance forward rather than waiting for someone to just give that to them. It's it's it's really about being proactive instead of reactive. But how do how do we leverage what's right about you, right, to navigate those conversations more skillfully?

Nathan 27:14

Excellent. I like that. How do you coach these leaders to step into this authority without becoming overbearing? And that's probably a portion of that. But is there anything else that you would add to that aspect of having them not kind of overrun everybody else around them?

Valerie 27:32

I here's what I found. Once you you give them the tool, the process, the structure, the model, the framework, right? You give them the skill, you help them define what success looks like in that conversation. All of a sudden, it's like handing them power. They they have confidence now because they feel a little bit more prepared, capable, and therefore more willing to initiate those conversations because they they have the confidence. They have more confidence to do it.

Nathan 28:12

Absolutely. I

Visibility And Your Leadership Brand

Nathan 28:14

like that. Um for let's talk about strategic visibility. There's a difference between doing great work and being seen as a leader. So, how do you help coach that distinction?

Valerie 28:26

Most people get promoted into being a manager because they were great at their work, right? The business side of things, the operations. Um, and as I already said, most managers operate with good intentions, but I think coaching helps them shift their perspective from doing to influencing and managing that impact um and being mindful of how their behavior lands with others. I think that's one of the differences between being managers and leaders. There's the business side and then there's the people side of leadership, and that's the complicated part.

Nathan 29:18

Absolutely. And I think that's where this type of conversation when it comes to a coaching exercise is so important, as you were mentioning. And I'll just use it my experience, right? So in orgs I've been in the past, they would have us go through our teams and kind of quadrant them out, right? And that's this you're kind of graphing out the potential of each person on your team. Yeah, there is a bucket of like these. I'm trying, I cannot remember the exact term that they use, but it was basically consistent in place, a doer, right? Like you're really good, you don't want to lose them off of that team. Even though that per person may want to go into leadership, you may not necessarily see them there.

Valerie 30:00

Yes.

Nathan 30:00

And that's where for that person to break out of that bucket, you have to show something different because you can be very good at your work, but that doesn't mean you're gonna be a good leader. Yeah. So how do you overcome those objections? What are the things that you do? And that's where I think this coaching aspect, as you were just mentioning, really kind of helps them get out of this bucket or this perception that I'm only good at doing what I do. Because I think there was a little bit of that about me for a while. Right. Is oh I had to get out of this. Like, I'm gonna be stuck doing what I do because I'm good at what I do, but how do I get out of that and how do I break free from it?

Valerie 30:36

Yes, yeah, absolutely. That's that's brilliant. That's great.

Nathan 30:40

So let's talk about personal brand. One of the things that you had me do, which actually was very helpful for me, um, was to really think about and define a leadership brand. And this is more about how do I want to be in the room when I'm not in the room, right? How do I want to shop? How do I want them to think about me? Why is that critical at a senior level?

Valerie 31:01

It's absolutely critical because you have, as a leader, you had the ability to manage that. It's the difference, like I said, from being on autopilot, right? Autopilot leadership to managing and being proactive leader. I and I probably shared this with you because it's it was a long time ago. I was working with this amazing team, and I was in Washington, D.C., and um they had just finished talking about branding, leadership branding, right before I went in for my session. And uh someone had written on a little piece of paper that branding is what people say about you when you're not in the room. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's that's important. That's important that leaders know that they understand. Do they understand how people describe them when they're not in the room? And is that what they want said about themselves? So, what I love about personal branding exercises is that it gives the leader clarity, just like you said. How do I want to show up day after day after day? And over time, when you're consistent with that, people start to form those impressions of you when you're not in the room. And then all of a sudden, when you're not in the room, Nathan, they're saying, Oh my gosh, Nathan brings the most compelling solutions to our clients, right? They that's what they start saying about you, but that doesn't happen unless you, the leader, are intentional about making sure your behavior aligns with the brand that you want to be known for.

Nathan 32:47

Absolutely. And I know going through that process was very illuminating for me. And I've had this conversation with people on my team in the past, right? Since my coaching process is to say, to kind of help them think through that process as well. Because I had to sit down and take a hard look and go, okay, what do I want to be known as? What kind of gives me energy? What drives me?

Valerie 33:08

Yes.

Nathan 33:09

And because that's what I want them to think about me. And I put those kind of behaviors or or attributes down. And I said, okay, then how do I reinforce that with this team so that they understand that if I want to be known as Mr. Fix It, right? Which is something that I always enjoy, and it's something that has happened to me naturally over my career is I've shown, okay, if there's a broken process, I can get in and fix it and correct it and take it to a different direction. But if that's something that you want to be known as, you have to think about how do I showcase that to others. And that was very freeing for me. It was actually very illuminating. And I really enjoyed that process. And I pulled that out. I don't know if I ever talked to you about this, but a while down the road, after we had been working together and we kind of finished up and I was working as I was going through my career, I pulled that branding out and showed it to somebody. I said, okay, how accurate is this? Just to get their thoughts. And they were like, wow, this is actually very accurate. They were like, this is spot on. I was like, good, that I'm progressing in the right direction. But to your point, you have to manage that. And I think if you don't, you actually hinder your career.

Valerie 34:19

Oh, when leaders do not understand how they, if they're not intentional about how they want to show up, they're immediately operating at a disadvantage.

Nathan 34:33

Absolutely.

When Coaching Backfires And Why

Nathan 34:35

We've talked about um a little bit earlier on um this aspect of, and and you and I have talked about this in the past, that and you have even said coaching shouldn't be forced. Why does that backfire?

Valerie 34:51

Um, it backfires because the person is just not, they don't have the right mindset, they're mentally not prepared for the coaching process. There's a stigma most most likely around uh why they're getting coaching. And um while I have been um contracted to work with leaders like that, um, most of the time it's not fun on either side. Um, and I have seen them make some progress, but um it's like there's a there's a roadblock there when they're forced to get coaching versus and and oftentimes it goes back to who's presenting that opportunity to them and how are they communicating it? Yes, are they communicating it in a negative way? Like this is right, you need coaching because you've got things that you've got to fix, or is it oh my gosh, Nathan, I see potential in you and I want, I I want to invest in your development. Here's a coach for you to work with, or I want you to find a coach to work with, it that changes the the person's uh response to coaching as well.

Nathan 36:09

And one thing that I wanted to to kind of get your opinion on, we can chat through this aspect. Do you see a uh difference? And if you're not comfortable answering this question, it's fine. But do you see a difference between an internal coaching process versus an external coach coming in and doing that? Because from my personal opinion, there's a reason why I had you do that as an external coach versus working through my internal teams.

Valerie 36:41

Yes, absolutely. I think when you're working with an external coach, there's an immediate credibility and a much more uh uh people just feel a little bit more safe, like it's a more confidential uh relationship, so they feel like they can be a little bit more honest and transparent. Because when people are guarded, when clients are guarded and they're not sharing the truth with me, they're not being honest, they're not being transparent. Most of the time we're chasing after symptoms instead of really attacking and targeting the root of the problem rather than the symptom. And um, that can really deter the progress that that we make in coaching.

Nathan 37:35

Yeah, and I want to add to that, like the reason why I went external for mine was I was concerned and I wanted truth, right? I wanted true visibility from the people you were gonna talk to, right? About me. And I knew that if I worked through my internal organization from my HR, because they offered, they're like, why are you doing this? And I don't know if we ever had this conversation, but my HR challenged me when I told them I was going through this process. And they're like, Why are you doing that? We can do that for you. And I had to tell them, look, I want honest feedback, and I don't think our people will be honest with you, HR, because you manage their careers too.

Valerie 38:17

Yes.

Nathan 38:18

And so that was from my perspective, I wanted that anonymity and that absolute trust that when they talk to you, I wouldn't know and it wouldn't impact their career at all, whatever they said about me. That was from my perspective, such a valuable asset of having it external versus internal. Because I think you see that in respondents, and you can, if you have a different opinion, please let me know. But I feel like from the respondents that you talk to, they're much more likely to give you the truth than they will be their own HR departments if it's an internally led.

Valerie 38:49

Yes, absolutely. Depending on the organizational culture, but I definitely agree. There's a greater um confidentiality when it's a third-party outside person that's facilitating that feedback and those conversations.

Nathan 39:08

Absolutely. And I am so sad because we're closing in on our time

Rapid Reflections For Better Leadership

Nathan 39:14

already. I don't know how it went so fast, but let's I've got a few, what I call rapid reflections. And again, they're going to be a little bit more unique to you versus what I normally do on my episodes. Because I want to continue within this space of coaching and leadership development for existing um leaders. What is the most subtle leadership behavior that you feel quietly limits careers?

Valerie 39:37

It's that lack of self-awareness and people can't fix what they don't see.

Nathan 39:43

Excellent. Blind spots, right? Yes. Having a blind spot that you need to uncover.

Valerie 39:49

Yes.

Nathan 39:49

And that is because what I have found in my career is especially if you have a really good relationship with your manager, with your leader that you're working under, they like to have a good relationship with you. They won't always get you some of those blind spots.

Valerie 40:09

Yes.

Nathan 40:10

Because sometimes they have a blind spot towards you too.

Valerie 40:13

Yes.

Nathan 40:13

And I think how you overcome that is getting the other feedback from others.

Valerie 40:17

Yes. So yeah. And their blind spot might be they don't like having tough conversations, so they avoid it.

Nathan 40:25

Exactly. That definitely happens. Uh, what's the hardest truth you've had to tell a senior leader?

Valerie 40:33

They're not the problem, they being the other people. It's their own behavior that's getting the results that they don't want, and helping them understand, right? That's again going back to intent versus impact, helping them understand how their behavior is creating the results they don't want. Good news, that's in their circle of control, right? Yes, they can change those things. You can't change them, the people, right? But you can change your behavior, which will influence a different reaction or a different response from uh those that they work with.

Nathan 41:14

Love it. Two more. What's one thing leaders think matters, but it really doesn't?

Valerie 41:20

They don't have to have all the answers. Yes, I like that. That's what their team is for. That's what the subject matter experts in the organization are for. Um, you know, that's what experts like like myself in this, you know, narrow lane, that's what I'm for. They don't have to have all the answers. It's okay.

Nathan 41:41

And I think your team will would find a lot of value in you saying, Yes, I don't know, but let's figure it out together.

Valerie 41:48

Yes, absolutely they would.

Nathan 41:50

Help them. That it's that's it's that simple from my perspective. Sorry. Yes. Finally, if a leader listening today could change one habit starting tomorrow, what would it be?

Valerie 42:05

Learn how to ask better questions. Stop talking at people and start asking questions.

Nathan 42:18

I love that. The reason why I chuckle is I literally this week, as we're recording this episode, I'm just coming out of a conference. And in that conference, there was a booth set up and they had all these sticker, like laptop stickers, right? So the the the swag and the the trinkets and trash. But there was one, it literally was a sticker. It said, ask better questions.

Valerie 42:39

Oh, okay, good.

Nathan 42:40

That's why I chuckle because I'm like that. I just was seeing those stickers this week, and I absolutely loved it. One of my uh counterparts got one. I should have gone over and gotten one for my computer because I absolutely loved it, but I did not. But I think that is so critical, and I love that, even from a leadership perspective. Absolutely about how do you ask better questions of your team? Yes, and ask better questions of your leader.

Valerie 43:03

Yes, you're not gonna know unless you're it's a great, it's a great tool to help manage down across and manage up. Just learn how to ask better questions.

Nathan 43:14

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me. And I I think the information that you've been able to share with the audience today is fantastic, and I hope they find a lot of value in that. But any final thoughts? Anything else that you wanted to include around executive career coaching?

Valerie 43:30

Oh, Nathan, I appreciate the opportunity just to reconnect and and talk about your experience. And hopefully um, I've given some nuggets of you know great information that uh your audience will be able to take and do something positive with it. So thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure.

Contact Info And Closing Thoughts

Nathan 43:50

Absolutely. And I do not want you to be a hidden gym by any stretch. So please let those know how they could get a hold of you if this is something that they're interested in doing.

Valerie 44:00

Absolutely. If they would love to know more about executive coaching or if they would love to learn more about uh team development and putting together a team impact intensive, they can certainly reach me at valerieplis@ strengthsbuilders.com. My website is strengthsbuilders.com and would love to chat with them. Absolutely.

Nathan 44:27

And I can vouch for the team building exercises that you have done because I've had you work on them with our teams as well in the past. And they're so valuable. The strengths builders side of things and learning how you work better together as a team is incredibly value valuable as a group and to make yourself more productive. Absolutely. But thank you so much. I greatly appreciate you.

Valerie 44:48

Thank you, Nathan. I appreciate it.

Nathan 44:51

As we wrap up this bonus episode, I hope one thing really sticks with you. Great leadership isn't about becoming someone completely different. More often, it's about building awareness, making intentional adjustments, and taking ownership of your own growth. Valerie shared such a powerful reminder that leadership blind spots are normal, but staying blind to them is optional. Whether it's asking better questions, becoming more intentional about how you show up, or finally seeking the feedback you've been avoiding, small changes can create massive ripple effects in your leadership journey. And if you've been waiting for permission to invest in your development, this is it. Thank you for listening. Thank you for showing up for your own growth. If this episode inspired you, share it with someone who needs encouragement today. And remember, trust your gut, be kind, lead with purpose, and never underestimate your impact. Until next time, I'm Nathaniel Norker, and this is Life and Leadership Story.