The Noble Dram | Surprise - That's Not Gavin (Season 2 | Ep. 5)

Gavin’s out this week… but its no surprise that The Noble Dram is still pouring strong.

Aaron is joined by a surprise guest at the table—his dad—for a conversation about the whiskies that caught them completely off guard. The bottles that surprised them, impressed them, and made them rethink what they expected from a pour.

Aaron brings something a little off the beaten path with M&H Single Malt, a whisky from Israel that’s been quietly turning heads in the global whisky scene. Meanwhile, Dad leans into bold peat with Ardbeg Wee Beastie, the young Islay powerhouse that proves age isn’t everything.

From unexpected flavor profiles to the stories behind these drams, the two explore what makes a whisky truly surprising—and why sometimes the bottles you least expect are the ones worth remembering.

So pour yourself a dram and join us for a special guest appearance on The Noble Dram.

New episodes drop every Thursday.🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or iHeartRadio📺 Watch the full episode on YouTube

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Transcript

Aaron 0:00

Is there a distillery that continues to surprise you every time you go back? At what point do you stop being surprised by that distillery makes good whiskey? Because every time we go back to them, they do? Or is it, I'm partly surprised because about half the stuff they make I don't like, but the other half I do, and I never know what I'm getting when I go in. Surprise everybody. Not who you expected, not even on the right side of the screen that you normally see. I'm Aaron. This is Tom, not Gavin for the Noble Dram. So Gavin couldn't make it tonight. We said the show must go on, and I conveniently got Dad to set in for me. So, Dad, thank you very much for being here.

Tom 1:12

Thank you for asking me.

Aaron 1:14

We're uh we're looking forward to doing this a little different than normal tonight. So, tonight's theme and the fact that it's a bit of a surprise for you guys to not see Gavin on camera. I thought that's a great idea. Let's talk about surprise bottles. Not bottles that just mysteriously show up in your stocking on Christmas morning, but like bottles that you go by kind of not sure what you're gonna get, and then ultimately turn into one that you really enjoy. So, to that end, I gave us the task. We each had to run through our list of memories and think back to which bottles were the ones that when we first started sipping, we're like, man, that's a good one. Did not see that coming. So I'll get the stove show. All right, I'll get the show started. I knew we'd get there. I knew we'd get there.

Tom 2:14

She's breaking in a new tongue.

Aaron 2:17

So my bottle is the MH Classic malt. So get a little porfer dead here. What does MH stand for? You know, you're getting ahead of me. I've got this written down in my notes.

Tom 2:34

Okay.

Aaron 2:35

So MH actually stands for milk and honey. This is an homage to the Old Testament on which the promised land of Israel was often referred to as the land flowing with milk and honey. So you think to yourself, why would you pick references to Israel for a whiskey? Well, that's because this is made in Tel Aviv, Israel.

Tom 3:07

So a place very well known for the whiskey making.

Aaron 3:09

Yeah. This actually is the first whiskey distillery in Israel. Uh, so there's a couple things that get a little unusual when you start distilling whiskey in Israel, right? Israel is a hot and sometimes dry climate. So uh master distiller, gentlemen by the name of Dr. Jim Swan, is a proclaimed world expert in not only hot climate distillation, but also hot climate maturation. So you think to yourself, well, what makes you a world expert in distillation or maturation, regardless of the climate? And so the claim to fame for Dr. Jim Swan is he is the creator of the STR process. Are you familiar with STR? I just happen to be. Okay. So for those at home that aren't, tell them what STR stands for.

Tom 4:09

Stands for scraping. You take the used barrel. If it's going to be a first fill, it's on it's not had any of this kind of whiskey in it, and you scrape it out, and you scrape off all the inside wood, and that's the S's for scraping. Scraping? Or shaving, sometimes you're shaving. It's a different kind of razor than I use. Once you get it shaved smooth, then instead of using a blast to char the inside, you heat the whole barrel in what they call a toasting mechanism or toasting procedure. You not know the correct words. And then after you toast it, then you go in and rechar it with a with a torch so that you get a crocodile skin effect on the end.

Aaron 4:58

Absolutely, absolutely right. So the STR approach is commonly used to kind of refurbish used barrels, trying to bring back some of those classic wood notes. But because it's a used barrel already, those flavors aren't as pronounced. Which actually makes a lot of sense if you're in a warm climate where barrel flavors tend to impart quickly. If I can use a barrel that has a little bit more subdued flavors, that actually helps the aging process. So all of this kind of makes a lot of sense. You now see STR approaches on a variety of different whiskies, right? Not just stuff from MH. Now, MH is a relatively new distillery. We talked about them being the first ones in Israel. They actually began in 2014, didn't release their first bottle till 2019. Uh also, a little sneak peek as to where this is going. I checked just as a comparison, right? MH being a little bit more of a craft boutique kind of distillery, not nearly the volume in production you get out of others. So I compared between the two distilleries setting on the table today. MH runs around 200,000 liters of production a year. By comparison, Ardbeg, which is coming up later, is about 2.5 million liters. And they're and they're not big. So a significant swing. Now, this is MH's classic malt. They're classic single malt specifically. This is using a combination of X-Bourbon and STR red wine barrels. Right? So the STR comes into play in this, 100% unpeeded, and aged for a minimum of at least three years. So youthful, somewhat to be expected in a warm climate. Too long in a barrel in a hot climate tends to be way too much barrel. So expect at a young age. They're using STR barrels to slow down some of that barrel effect that comes from it. They get to the end, non-chill filtered, bottled at 46% ABB. So as we sit here and sip and taste and all of that kind of stuff, I got to thinking a little bit about surprises. So the question I have to you to start with what creates a surprise whiskey? Is it more a low expectation going in, or is it more a great whiskey at the end?

Tom 7:53

Obviously, it has to be a combination of the two, but I can't think of any of the whiskeys that I would count as surprises that I came in with with a high expectation. So it has to, number one, it has to have a medium to low expectation to start with. Because there's several distilleries that I really like that I have, I have never been surprised how good something was, but more than once been disappointed because the reputation was that I'm going to love this, and if it's not top-notch, I say to myself, well, gee, I was kind of expecting something a little more than that. I'm expecting a lot out of Israel, though.

Aaron 8:36

The I think I think part of the challenge, and and this is in life, not just in whiskey, right, is our expectations set what we would deem to be the minimum standard. And if things don't exceed our expectations, we're let down by those. So the best thing we could always do is go in with low expectations. I also am a firm believer that there is a love or a dislike of different distilleries based upon your past experiences with them. And so sometimes the best thing you can do to really get surprised by a bottle is not know what the bottle is. Somebody brings you a taster that's unlabeled, you're really truly tasting blind. Sometimes you realize I didn't like that distillery maybe as much as I thought, right? I was let down by that. Not that you were let, I shouldn't say let down. I wasn't as wild as I thought I would be wild, maybe would be a better way to put it. So yeah, I to me, I I think it's this balance, right? There was the comedian's name is Jimmy Carr, but so Jimmy Carr sometimes gets a little serious. And he has a line that he says that happiness is the is what you currently have minus your expectations. And I think if you walked into any whiskey with no expectations, all of them exceed your expectations, right? That's a that's a good way to live life.

Tom 10:06

I never gave that credit to that comedian because I didn't know that, but I've heard that happiness is truly linked to reality versus expectations.

Aaron 10:17

Yeah. So when we talk about, because we we we've spent a good bit of the day today talking about surprise whiskies, when you think of a surprise whiskey, is it just because the whiskey is better than you expected? Or were some of the bottles you thought of, like I expected this and got this instead? It wasn't that it was better, it was just different. So when you were making your list of expectations, 50-50 between quality or flavor? Like, where does that fall for you?

Tom 10:53

On my list that I made for surprise whiskeys, they were almost all better than I anticipated. I really hadn't thought about a surprise whiskey being one you anticipated it tasting great because of some characteristic, either the sweetness or the finish. And then what you really found was boy, I'm impressed with the peat or the something else, so that I'm surprised it tasted good in a different way than I anticipated. That's but I can I ask you a question. Of course. I don't mean to interrupt, but it's not on the list. How did you happen to come by? And uh I don't usually go to the liquor store and say, please, can I have your best Israeli whiskey?

Aaron 11:38

Like we were down there buying Israeli things in general. Um we had koos koos, and no, until uh we we were getting ready for Passover and we needed whiskey. No, I'm teasing. Um this happens. So for those who've watched previous episodes, uh, I think what you'll realize pretty quickly is there's very little things that Impex Beverages brings into the country that Gavin and I are not big fans of. Impex happens to be the importer for this. The local liquor store, the great big downtown store, um they're big supporters, big pushers of Impex products. And so it was recommended by the guy downtown when I was down there. Um and I kind of took a flyer on it. I was intrigued by it, right? I loved I loved the idea of a name, milk and honey. Like if you actually, I it's tough to see here, but if you actually go look at the logo, it's a cow with the back half as B striped, right? The play of milk and honey. I I oh I found it clever in its naming and its marketing and its approach as an homage to where they came from. And I I liked that kind of creativeness and thought, well, we'll give it a chance, right? That I don't recall it being an exceptionally expensive bottle. Um, I've now had the opportunity from having tried this and thought, man, I really like that. I've I've tried several others. I we've got one on the shelf right behind you. Uh, there's a hole where this one used to sit, right? Um they that then pushes us into other places. And we're gonna talk a little bit about um as when we when we try ears. I want to talk a little bit about how we find surprises at the liquor store because that can be a challenge uh for sure. So let's talk a little bit about your list you were putting together today. Is there is there a bottle or two that really stood? I was like, man, I didn't see that coming. Is there a distillery that continues to surprise you every time you go back? At what point do you stop being surprised by that distillery makes good whiskey? Because every time we go back to them, they do. Or is it I'm partly surprised because about half the stuff they make I don't like, but the other half I do, and I never know what I'm getting when I go in. I is there a repeat I should I don't I want to say offender, but not offender's not the right word. Is there a repeat surpriser for you?

Tom 14:07

Well, this particular distillery, artbeg, it is my first experience was all uh artbag 10, and I was really impressed with art bag 10. And then a fellow shows up on my doorstep with a with two bottles of We Beastie. And sounds like a good friend. It's always a bad idea when somebody brings you two bottles, and you're probably not gonna and he was telling me how inexpensive it was, and I thought, uh, but your original question was what about things that just keep happening? Artbeg in the last 10 years has come out with one hit after another. It's almost like scoring 20 runs in one inning, it's just one hit after the other. Every year they come out with multiple editions of something, and I keep thinking that they just each one I try, I like. And that was before I tried this one, right? But I assumed that if this was the chew knockoff of the real thing, that this one, that the the reason this one was a surprise is because I wasn't anticipating that kind of a reputation to be developed.

Aaron 15:20

Yeah. So I think one of the things that comes up quite a bit is um brands that you know you like that it offer a limited release, something specialty, like something different, right? Um so I've got I've been a big fan of Diaggio's special edition releases they do at the end of every year because it takes a distillery I know I like and gives me a twist on it, right? Um my fear is we're digressing into topic for second bottle, but I think I think this um I think so often taking a brand that I know I like and going and trying one of their limited releases or specialty runs or something, um, is a fun way to try something that feels like it could be a surprise without feeling like I've jumped completely off the end. I'll say, in talking to a couple of other guys, when we were talking about surprise bottles, the overwhelming response was I tried it and it wasn't very expensive, so I took a flyer on it. And then I was surprised at how good it was for the price. Not suggesting that people were running after the cheapest whiskeys out there. But sometimes that's what makes it easy to take a flyer on a ball, is that it wasn't very expensive. And for that price, we could just toss it in the cart, right? We'll give it a shot. What's the worst that could happen? Then you get home and again, you set your expectations very low, and you get to the house and pour a glass, and you're like, it's actually better than I thought it was going to be, considering it was only $40 or $50, right? Whatever that number happens to be. I think the risk you run is turning into a brand that does nothing but limited run releases. So then it's hard to understand a cohesive concept of what it is they make, right? They're all over the place. And then it does feel a little bit like a like a crapshoot.

Tom 17:22

Well, that was one of my thoughts when you were saying Diaggio. Um uh something, and I'm gonna pick a brand, uh something like Logavulin, that traditionally didn't have very many choices. If you liked one, you would say, well, I'll try one of the other choices that are available in the United States. But Diaggio makes so much of everything that I'm not sure you could say, I like this Diaggio, so I must like something else because they just make too damn much stuff. Yeah, uh sorry. Darn much stuff. It's all right. It's all right.

Aaron 17:59

He's old. If we stop if we stopped airing episodes because we cursed, we'd only made it two episodes into the show. All right, so let's go back to the whiskey in this class. Walk me through what you're getting on the nose. We'll head into palate and finish here in a sec.

Tom 18:22

Sweetness. Honey sweetness, which I'm afraid my mind was poisoned by the name Milk and Honey, because that word was in my brain to start with, but there's a honey note there, uh, along with a little bit of a sweet, malty cereal note.

Aaron 18:41

I I definitely get more malt. I I'm with you that there is the like subtle hint of honey aroma, but I I actually don't find it sugary, neither on the on the nose or on the palate. I get far more maltiness, even though it's got that light. Have you ever had have you ever had honey that sat in the jar too long and started to crystallize a bit?

Tom 19:09

I I live in a latitude that you don't have to raise your hand. Honey crystallizes anytime after mid-August and before freezing, freezing and crystallizing aren't the same thing, but I understand what you think.

Aaron 19:26

No, I it reminds me of that kind of almost gritty texture of crystallized honey, less than the sweet, creamy texture of like fresh honey. Maybe uh yes, and I was thinking because I I I started to write down vanilla, but then I thought not sweet enough to be vanilla. And then I started to write honey, and I thought, but it's not really sweet enough to be honey. So I ended up writing not sweet, more malty, uh, on this. Do you do you feel the palate mimics that?

Tom 20:04

Yes. Um part of honey is the nuances between the different kinds of honey. And I'm definitely gonna say there's a little bit of like clover honey odor to that, even if it's not sweet uh flavor. I'm assuming this has a relatively short fermentation time because it is kind of what I'd say malt forward, cereal forward. It has a it has a a cereal grain malt flavor to it that you that I can say that I like that.

Aaron 20:45

Yeah, so a lot of times people ask me what malt, like when we say malty, what does that mean, right? Like how how do you rip if you how would you correlate that to something else? So I have always said if you've ever opened a bag of Cheerios, the aroma of a bag of Cheerios has got that dusty grain kind of maltiness to it. All of the talk of honey makes me want to say, does this is is this what a bag of honey nut Cheerios smells like when you open it? But I think honey nut cherios is far more sweeter than this would be. This is closer to plain old um toddler Cheerios that you let them stuff between the cushions of your couch.

Tom 21:27

I was too old to grow up with Cheerios, but we had or toasty oats. We had grape nuts. Okay, and grape nuts had a had some maltiness to them, but also the sugar in them was malt, maltose sugar. And maltose sugar has a little bit of a malty flavor to it. Uh, I would have to say that if I was going to describe to someone what is malt like, well, just chew some uh grape nuts. The sweetness for there comes from the maltose.

Aaron 21:58

Now To the palate. You said stays consistent with the nose.

Tom 22:05

You think that's there is a definite red wine character, cherry, red berries, dark berries, kind of a note to that. Uh that I'm assuming comes all from the um the red wine cask.

Aaron 22:24

See, I I didn't pick up on any of that. I had actually written down, I was surprised there wasn't more red wininess to it. And I'm gonna I'm gonna go back and take another sip here in a sec. I twofold. Sometimes red wines give you fruit notes, right? Think especially fortified wines like sherries and porks and stuff of that nature. Um my wife would argue Pinot Noirs fall into that category too, that really fruity. Um, sometimes red wines have a ton of tannic notes to them, like drying of the mouth. And I don't get that for sure. I'm not over oaky. Um you mean on this whiskey? No, on this whiskey, no, not at all. Not at all. And maybe that's why I'm struggling to say what doesn't remind me of red wine because it is a little drying on the tongue though. And see, I get I get a spiciness, but I was thinking more pepper than drying oak.

Tom 23:28

I'm not going to argue. Um I I like to argue.

Aaron 23:34

Do you remember do you remember the show Jerry Springer, where everybody just turns to fisticuffs in the middle of an episode? I never once. If that's how this goes, then that's how this goes. It will make it will make Thanksgiving next year really uncomfortable, but I'll throw hands if we have to.

Tom 23:52

If it's not Dick Van Dyke or Andy Griffith, you're out of my you're out of my era.

Aaron 23:56

The hard the hard part about getting into a fight with your dad is you either beat up an old man or you got your butt whooped by an old man.

Tom 24:07

Either way, you lose. And usually if you're afraid to throw the first punch hard, then you usually end up losing the fight anyway. That's true. That's true. Um, there is something intrinsically I don't always rate or grade scotches based upon, this isn't a scotch, based upon the flavors I pick up, but how much I like those flavors. And this is this is really quite good. Um whether you can detect the cherry kind of dark berry notes. Um I think that's there's a little bit of a tartness there.

Aaron 24:48

You added water, right? Oh, yeah. Okay, so I will say the the fruit note shows up a little more after a sip of water. And so I'm wondering if you kind of wash out some of the other stuff that allows those fruit notes to come forward. Yes, in fact, yeah, I can see that. That's one of the values of adding the water is well, unless it screws up your whiskey and then you're screwed because there's no good way to get the water back out. Um I can add more whiskey. You can dilute. What's the old civil engineering uh comment? The solution to pollution is dilution.

Tom 25:25

In the uh uh field of medicine, wounds are contaminated, and that you hear that saying the solution to pollution is a dilution. We just keep pouring water in there until we get it out.

Aaron 25:35

In this case, keep pouring whiskey until you can't taste the water. All right, on the finish, what do you think?

Tom 25:43

I wrote down that it maintained a caramel in the finish. But I'm thinking that there's no part of this in the nose or the palate that does that you lose during the finish.

Aaron 25:58

Yeah, I I'll say I think the finish is short in the fact that it it runs through a lot of those things we just talked about pretty quick, and then it kind of turns into dry oak in my mind. The oak actually shows up more predominant on the finish than it has at any point else in the glass. Okay. Um I wish, I wish some of those flavors on the palate and on the nose carried more into the finish. But also, what I'll say is I I think if I was giving a comment about the bottle overall, it's relatively one single cord. The nose follows the palate, follows the finish, like they're all in the same. Um, this isn't one of those whiskeys that you're like, oh my god, oh, oh my. I'm not picking up different things at different times, right? So it would probably be my one drawback, if you will, to the whiskey. So hold up. I'm afraid I got ahead of ourselves here. I didn't give it a number, but I started talking about it overall. The rule of the episode is the bottle I present, you score first. So without looking, I because you've already written your I write it down ahead of time because I I honestly think when we do this, Gavin cheats and he waits for me to write it, say my number, and then he just adds one to it. So that way it's like he wins.

Tom 27:30

Did you say Gavin cheats? I I've told it. I've told when he said Gavin cheats, he really didn't mean Gavin cheats. So just get that out of your head.

Aaron 27:40

No, I think what I was going with is Gavin cheats. Um, he he doesn't like me having a higher score than him, and so I think he likes to he likes to go one up.

Tom 27:52

So you're wanting to know what I think about this. I'm giving it over. Uh in the grand scheme of single malt whiskeys, Scotch whiskeys particularly, this is one that if I saw this for 60, 80 bucks, I'd probably buy one. If I had something else on the shelf than I own, I only had enough money for one, I might pick a different one. So I'm thinking that somewhere around 84, 83, 83 is what it was.

Aaron 28:27

83. All right. 83. I'm writing it down. Locking it in. Final answer. Final answer. Final answer. You don't want to phone a friend?

Tom 28:34

I don't, I don't have any friends who's Kevin's gone.

Aaron 28:42

All right, so I I agree with you. I like the bottle. Um, I I don't have any objection to having owned a bottle. I I I've bought bottles for friends that wanted to try something different, something unusual. I think that's exactly where this falls. This one's an 81 for me. Nothing wrong with owning a bottle, but I'm not beaten down the door at 10 a.m. to be let in to go buy this bottle.

Tom 29:09

If you told me that you're going to go to Israel and buy the only whiskey distillery and you were going to end up giving it an 81, 83 rating, I'd say I'd be surprised.

Aaron 29:22

Yeah. Yeah. So it does strike me that if I found myself in Israel, I'd swing by the distillery and see what else they have and try something, right? I they have earned a potential repeat business with that bar for sure. For sure.

Tom 29:36

I'm impressed.

Aaron 29:37

All right, so set this one to the side. For the last couple weeks, we've been teasing a big announcement coming. That's right. The Noble Dram has a barrel pick.

Speaker 1 29:47

But we don't have fast anything here. Not just one barrel pick, we got two. Larceny, barrel-proof, and Elijah Craig, barrel-proof.

Aaron 29:56

We want to give a special thanks to the guys at MR Liquor here in Northwest Houston that helped make these barrel picks possible.

Speaker 1 30:03

With them, we've reserved a limited number of each barrel pick for you, our noble listeners.

Aaron 30:10

For everyone who goes online, reserves a bottle before they go on sale to the general public, you get $10 off per bottle.

Speaker 1 30:18

Follow the link down below in the comments to reserve each one of these bottles.

Aaron 30:23

And don't miss a chance to enjoy two delicious drinks. Cheers. Now comes the fun part where you now get to be in charge. Tell us about your bottle.

Tom 30:40

This is a bottle of Wii Beastie. It comes from the distillery art bag. And for years and years, all we got in the United States was the 10-year art bag, and I liked it. A friend showed up at my door and said they make a art bag that is only five years old. Okay. And uh he he had he had tasted and he liked it. And so he brought me two bottles, primarily because they weren't very expensive. But then you're a lush. Well, uh, I also do a scotch tasting club where he thought this would go quite well, too. But if you only bring one bottle, you always run the risk that, well, boy, if this is really, really good. They only got one bottle. But if somebody brings you two bottles, it's like, oh, this is a bad omen.

Aaron 31:34

I don't like what it says about me to buy two bottles every time I buy something. It makes me feel like I have a problem. However, the alternative is to buy a bottle, race home, uncork it, and take a sip just to find out if it's worth having a backup bottle or not. And then what that means is every bottle I buy, I open, right? Immediately. And so I run the problem of having way more bottles open than I really need at any given moment, considering how much I can drink uh before I suffer liver failure.

Tom 32:12

So there's very few whiskies that I can name probably all three of them that the first time I tasted one, I sent word out I need two more bottles of this in case I quit making it right away.

Aaron 32:28

We we made reference to limited release runs. Those are far more apt to fall into that category for me. That you get home and you try it and you're like, this is my only chance to get this bottle. I would be remiss if I didn't have another one or two or whatever on the floor.

Tom 32:47

For marketing purposes, sometimes a distillery says, Hey, we think we're going to make this every year for the forever. Right. The first year they call it a limited release. And then if it doesn't sell as well as, or their public response isn't as good. So you think, well, boy, this is a limited release. I'm gonna have to run out and buy another bottle, only to find out that they make it every year for 10 years. Been been there and had that problem too. This is this is 47.4%. So what we should do.

Aaron 33:16

We stepped up. This I went from 46 to 47.4. This point four that get you.

Tom 33:23

This you can smell it on the all X bourbon and Olaroso sherry casks. Five years old, which means that some of it could be more than five years old. But there again, for marketing reasons, I wouldn't anticipate minimal amount of over five-year-old stuff.

Aaron 33:45

The obvious difference between the two. Oh, there is a difference between these two? I made reference to this being 100% unpeated barley.

Tom 33:55

Oh, you think this is your art bag is peted. I haven't got to that yet. How did you know? Sorry. Foreshadowing. Um as soon as I took the cork off, it was like, oh my gosh. And since I like peat, I thought, oh my gosh. Yeah, for sure. The distillery is very old. It was a illegal still before 1815, and then they started the still.

Aaron 34:21

The biggest 1815, 2000, what did I say? 2014? Yeah, 2014. They had them by almost uh 200 years, just barely squeezed in.

Tom 34:37

199. 200 years. And if you count the illegal stills that were operating there before, it's going to count as half years. Okay. They're illegal. Uh they they opened this and it was renowned for its peatiness. Uh the market for whiskey goes up and down, and you have to predict this year what you make. It's going to sell in five years, 15 years. So it's a little bit of a crapshoot. It things went pretty well until about 1950, when what's now Diaggio Distillers Companies Limited bought it, and they only bought 50%. The other half got bought by Hiram Walker, which is a Canadian distillery. And uh about 20 years later, um, Hiram Walker bought all of it, thought that the market for peted whiskey was going to go down. They tried to do non-peted whiskey and sell it under the name Kill Dalton. Within two years, they closed their doors, they sold all their stuff.

Aaron 35:40

So if you're saying if we can find a 1950 Kill Dalton, that's really unpeted Arbeg.

Tom 35:47

That's really unpeated Ardbeg. I don't know if any of that stuff exists anywhere. If if anybody out there's got a bottle sitting around, we'd love to try it. The stuff that was bottled before they went to the Kill Dalton, it sells for top dollar. Uh yeah. If you still have one of those for closure doors.

Aaron 36:05

Ardbeg has been one of those distilleries that has almost a cult-esque following.

Tom 36:10

You're getting ahead of me. Sorry, sorry. The artbeg it's the peted version of McCallan. Ardbeg does marketing top-notch, and they literally have a cult following. People stand in line, getting, waiting for their next issue.

Aaron 36:26

And it is so often distilleries, especially Scotch distilleries, push towards this exclusive bougie level. Look how incredibly ornate the wooden box the bottle comes in. They've really chased after that. Anybody who is somebody drinks brand X. Yeah, I'm looking at you, McAllen. Right? Oh, but Ardbeg didn't. We're the misfit kids kind of scotch. And they've they've said, we're bucking all of those trends. We're gonna go as as outrageous and ridiculous kind of persona as possible. And I think it is really, it really pairs well with the kind of whiskey they produce.

Tom 37:21

Yes. Um, some years later, Glenn Moringe purchased them, and Glenn Moringy had a reputation for being very skilled barrel makers, wood selectors for their barrels, and it's referred to as the Glenn Moringe Wood Policy, helped them out dramatically. And then it wasn't very many years after that, both of them got bought by Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy. And Louis Vuitton, sort of an upscale ladies' handbag dealer.

Aaron 37:55

And my my wife actually asked for a Louis Vuitton for Christmas, and I bought her a bottle of Ardbag. She was not happy with that. I I I ended up okay.

Tom 38:10

But from a marketing standpoint, you couldn't do better than what Ardbeg has done in the last 30, 40 years.

Aaron 38:18

Even the names, even the names of their various special releases have been fun, twists, um, their standard product offerings, harken to the rough seas and and and rugged life of Isla. Um whether whether you're talking Cory Vrecken or which means rural pool and then and then all of their doll means mysterious and dark and everything about it really plays to exactly what they're putting into the bottles, which I think is so much fun. All right, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Tom 38:56

No, you're you're fine. I in I interjected repeatedly. Um I think I was done talking about the distillery. Um talk about what's in this glass, though.

Aaron 39:05

Like what what whiskey tell me about We Beastie 5.

Tom 39:10

It's X bourbon and Olaroso mated with peated barley. Five years old. Uh-huh. Okay. Which I think at the time I first heard about it, I assumed that meant they were not going for a long-aged product. That's why it was one of the more inexpensive. But the experiences they had over at Brooklady with Octimore trying to age it and the peat would absorb out.

Aaron 39:41

Yeah, absolutely.

Tom 39:42

They came to the conclusion that five years was about as long as you could age a heavily peated scotch without removing the peat flavor. So this turns out this Wee Beastie may have also been ahead of its time trying to uh get it onto the market at five years. Yeah.

Aaron 39:59

In general, if you're looking for an isla whiskey and you find something that's five years old, it's either we beastie or it's Octamor.

Tom 40:10

Yes.

Aaron 40:10

So those are the only options. Yes. Both of which are renowned for having incredibly high levels of peak.

Tom 40:17

Well, they the first few editions of Octamor, they tried to leave it in the barrel longer, thinking it would sell better to the public. But what they found out was it was too hard to maintain that peak flavor that long in the barrel. So now they cut back, they don't sell any Octamor that's over five years old. I think, yeah, most of them are in the four to five year range for sure.

Aaron 40:38

All right. So we were talking about surprise bottles. Yes. So one of the questions that often comes up when you claim yourself to be somewhat of a whiskey connoisseur. I don't. I know, but I have. Oh, okay. By by starting a podcast, it's kind of an inferred. I I describe myself as a whiskey uh enthusiast. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I my wife describes me as a collector, and I try to correct her and say, no, no, no, I don't collect, I drink. And so that makes me a connoisseur, not a collector. Well, the collectors, collectors put it up on the shelf and let dust collect. You're a computer.

Tom 41:13

That's why they call them collectors. Because you're several bottles ahead of your drinking. That's that makes you a There you go.

Aaron 41:20

If not, I'm called just a lush. That's right. Um, one of the things people often ask is, hey, like, how do you stumble into these fun new bottles? So the question, I guess, becomes what kind of tips or tricks would you give somebody who's heading to, as the not present Gavin would refer, his to the bottle shop. So he's heading to the bottle shop. What are things you would give them in advice to say, hey, here's a good way to find something new that you like? Because I think we could all walk in and just grab something off the shelf, but it's in your in your distinguished terminology, it's a crapshoot.

Tom 42:04

For the viewers, he did warn me that we were going to talk about how you give advice on picking out something you like, because the industry is extraordinarily confusing, and I think purposefully so. But if you go to the store and you show up and say, gee, I want one that tastes as sweet as this one, as smoky as this one, whatever, I have found that one of my biggest best resources is ask the salesperson in the store what they think. It's obvious in my part of the country that there's a lot of people that don't that work in liquor stores that don't know anything about Scotch whiskey. For sure. But those who do I think that's everywhere. Those who do appear to be thrilled to sh that you've asked. I've I've asked a lot of people a lot of questions and and narrowed down and pinned down and thought, oh gee, that's an insight I wouldn't have gotten if I hadn't oppressed him on that.

Aaron 43:04

Uh I hate to say it. I'm there's the commercials about the guy who helps you to not become your parents. Oh, wow. And he's talking about interrupting and sticking your nose into things. I find myself standing in the Scotch Island, and somebody says, Well, I'm looking for something like this. Like, don't listen to that guy. Come over here, I'll show you stuff. Um, I just just a couple days ago, we're at the store, and this this guy we he comes over with a bottle, and I was like, Oh, if you like that, you should try this one over here. This is actually much better than this one. And he goes, You guys are always upselling me. I said, I don't work here. I'm just I'm just here having a good time. This is this is how I spend my Saturdays.

Tom 43:41

People who enjoy whiskey, they they like to be asked uh for sure.

Aaron 43:46

So I think part of this is just understanding the local bottle shop, but who at the shop is knowledgeable and who's the guy who just says, Well, they pay us a little bit extra if we move two more cases of this, right? What was the old joke when you go to Sit down at dinner and the waiter comes over and says, Might I recommend the chicken? It has an excellent profit margin. Um, yeah, I think there's I think you got to be careful, right? Um, if every time you go in, no matter what you say you like to drink, he keeps recommending the same bottle, he's probably getting paid extra to sell that bottle. Um, but yeah, I think I think a first tip is always ask an expert, right? If you have a buddy who drinks scotch or drinks whiskeys, right, in general, bourbons or otherwise, like ask them what they recommend, right? And especially if they tend to like the things you also like. It's one of the one of the things I love about searching the internet. I get down these rabbit holes of watching YouTube videos of different guys give their reviews. And what I find is when I find somebody who gives reviews consistent with my own, yes, I then listen to them for recommendations, the things they like obviously align with the things I like. I wish there was some sort of massive algorithm. I wish AI would catch up to my whiskey drinking.

Tom 45:03

I have had oftentimes a spouse buying a gift call me and say, What do I recommend? I want to try something new, my husband hasn't tried, but I want to avoid those, maybe PD or those whatever. And so just the just the advice of saying, well, if he doesn't like this kind, then I can at least give you some advice on what not to purchase.

Aaron 45:28

Yeah, steer clear of steer clear of these, right?

Tom 45:32

If you if you go to the store and you've liked the 10, I think it's very reasonable to try the five or the or the 12 or the 18, depending on the dollars and all the sorts of things. Yeah.

Aaron 45:45

I think the misnomer has always been the 12 is a better version of the 10, the 15 is a better version of the 12, the 18 is a better version of the 15. And that is not the case. In some occasions, it is. Quite often. Very often. Quite often, that distillery is going after a different flavor profile at those different ages. It doesn't mean you won't enjoy it more. It's just understand it is slightly different. Um, I think another tidbit of advice I would give is take the characteristics of the bottle and go find another distillery that makes a bottle that carries those same characteristics. One of the first whiskeys I really began sipping that I enjoyed was Angel's Envy, which is a port-finished bourbon. So I took that and said, let me go find other port-finished whiskeys. And what it did is it opened me up to a whole bunch of stuff, including a LaFroyd portwood, right? Which the initial whiskey is nothing like bourbon, but yet there is a similarity that carries over that I can see where that goes. The other part is you mentioned Glenn Maranji earlier. Glenn Maranji is one of those that I really enjoy sitting down with somebody to try a variety of Glenn Marangis because they're big. I won't say shtick, stick makes it sound like a lot of work. But they take they take a standard product, then they finish it in Twenty or finish it in port, or finish it in Saternes, or finish it in cognac, or finish it in Malaga wine. And so what you then begin is like, well, it's the same basic product, but what I've done is I've changed the finishing. So I've kept something similar to a product I know that I like, know that I trust, I feel comfortable drinking. And so that's another way to expand a palette without completely jumping off into the deep end and not knowing what you're getting.

Tom 47:42

There was a long time when I thought anything finished in Pedro Jimeni TX cask was to be chased after. And I don't know which brand originally I tasted that I liked so much, but I probably have 10 different kinds of whiskeys.

Aaron 48:01

I didn't I can tell you the barrel that I tried. It was Logavulin's distillers edition that is matured finished out in Pedro Jimenez. And I was like, I gotta have Pedro Jomez from now on. And I went and bought anything that had Pedro Jimenez on the label.

Tom 48:15

I was like, I gotta have that.

Aaron 48:17

Um a lot of distilleries put it proudly on the front label, PX finished or I even went so far as to go buy bottles of sherry so I could begin to understand the differences between pheno sherries and olderosas and and cream sherries and PX sherries. And what I realized is I kind of like sherries too. Um maybe it's just I maybe I just have a problem. Maybe that's the truth of the matter.

Tom 48:42

All right. So you want to talk about what you get on the nose here?

Aaron 48:45

No, no, I do, I do, I do. I I think I think you would be remiss to not start with the word peat. Right? Um, it's more than just peat.

Tom 48:55

If you walked in the door right now, you'd say, Do you have a bottle of peat and scotch open in here? It is thick.

Aaron 49:03

But it's it's not just peaty, it's smoky, right? Which often are misconstrued, but they're very they often go hand in hand, let me put it that way. Like it almost sitting here, it almost feels like somebody has a jacket that they wore out by the campfire last night and laid it over the chair in the room, right? That is in the air without even putting your nose in a glass. So to me, though, and this is for those who aren't Big Pete fans, you'll find this repulsive. This is very creosote, petroleum ask. The best way to describe you sat next to a campfire and opened a new canister of tennis balls, like that rubbery, brand new tennis ball aroma and the smokiness. I I find that excellent.

Tom 49:59

Oh, I I uh it it it's it's bizarre marketing, but people have tried to come up with ways to describe what this tastes like. And they include things like campfire and fire, the wood that's been in the fire, and leather and seaweed. And you were talking about like he left his jacket. Well, it was a sailor's jacket, and it had leather, and he'd been working on the working on the on the something and got tar all over it. Yeah, and then it went up in the fire and laid on the laid on the limb overnight. Uh those all those words imply something bad tasting, but this is just the good tasting part of all that description.

Aaron 50:46

No, I it reminds me when when we when we would go deer hunting on a cold winter day and you'd have to walk across a railroad trellis bridge. Yes. Right? The the lumber and creosote smell, the crisp, cold air, like everything about this feels like it should be um 34 degrees outside while you sit and sip this.

Tom 51:08

If you make a fire out of creosoted uh railroad timbers, sit upwind.

Aaron 51:15

I'm sure that'll give you cancer.

Tom 51:16

Yeah, it would, but it doesn't even smell good. But if you take a down tree and make a fire, a bonfire, and have that smoke, and then you put that smoke over over uh down down upwind from that uh railroad bridge, that's what this tastes like. Absolutely. It doesn't have the unpleasant burning creosote, it has the pleasant sweet creosote and the wood fire. Agreed, agreed.

Aaron 51:44

Now on the palate, though, I'm gonna say this. Everything we talk about starts with peat and and creosote kind of notes, right? I actually get a bit of a green grassy note to it. Um sometimes, sometimes Isla whiskies, you get that kind of citrusy, but this more I won't say like even lemongrass. This is this is moving into like fresh mown front yard.

Tom 52:12

I don't have it now because my taste buds, but when I first smelled that, lemon came right to my head first. Okay, yeah, I there's a citrus.

Aaron 52:25

I can't, I can't I can't say no, it doesn't exist. But to me, to me, this reminds me when when we were when I was younger. Well, you were younger than two, just not as young. Um I think that was a cut. Uh it used to be a fairly common thing that in the fall we would burn out the yard. Yes. And so this smoky burnt grass kind of thing, I I get that on the palate. Yes. It's it's that charred grassy note.

Tom 52:58

I would even say that when you raked your leaves, you had some damp leaves and some wet pine needles in the fire that you burned off the grass. Yep. Because there's there's definitely burning wet pine needles taste of that.

Aaron 53:16

And I just hearing us say all of this, it doesn't sound complimentary, but it is it is deliciously good.

Tom 53:22

It's deliciously good, yes.

Aaron 53:23

Now, on the finish, this is going to sound insulting because I think the finish is medium. So I don't mean to say that the finish is short, but I'll say the finish is shorter than I thought it would be. A lot of what we just talked about fades really quickly.

Tom 53:44

This film doesn't have long enough for me to tell you when the last bit of pleasant flavor leaves your mouth after you've after you've taken your last taste. This changes.

Aaron 53:57

I mean Gavin once described it as like you turned off the stereo, you hit stop, but the speakers just kind of hummed. So it's like you had all of this stuff going on, and then quickly it kind of dissipated, but it never goes all the way off, it just goes down to a low-level hum that just carries for a long time.

Tom 54:20

I'm gonna say some of that lemony burnt pine needles, I'm thinking that goes on quite a while. I mean, yes, part of it is short. I'm not gonna imply that, but some of the more pleasant or some of the more sought-after flavors I'm looking for, those the MH's finish was short.

Aaron 54:44

Compared to this, yes. I'm not saying this is a short finish. I just expected bigger, bolder flavors to carry longer than I think I'm getting. I think it is toned down more than I expected. Again, the question of surprise is a basis of expectations versus reality. I think I from the nose, I was expecting this huge finish that carried on.

Tom 55:06

It may do glass. I might put a lid on it.

Aaron 55:12

Um see see how long I continue to smell it. All right. So the rules are your bottle, my score. Oh, hold on. Before you go ahead. Go ahead.

Tom 55:23

No, no, go ahead, Doctor. What else did you want to say? I'm gonna write this. You're gonna write the four before. Oh, really quick. Hurry quick. Go ahead. I'm gonna say More.

Aaron 55:30

Go ahead. Um I this is that expectation versus reality. I know a lot of art bags. I love a lot of art bags. This is not one of my favorite art bags. So that hurts it when you start thinking about score, right? In the world of surprised by it, I will say my expectations were very low. It's a five-year-old whiskey, right? Um, I expected it to taste more youthful. To be honest, neither of these tasted real youthful.

Tom 56:11

And this one is only three years old, considering their ages, right? Yes. You would have expected from this was in the heat for three years, cooked a little bit.

Aaron 56:19

Totally different, totally different aging process. I I put this one in an 82. I went up just a little bit from MH to totally different whiskeys. I don't think it's really fair to put the numbers side by side. I'm giving Ardbeg Weebesti an 82 in reference to other Ardbegs and other peted scotches, not in reference to MNH. I think that's unfair to compare those two that way.

Tom 56:46

Yes, in fact, everybody comes to every argument with their own bias. Um, there's two ways to rate scotches. One is how well does it compare if you were the if you were the unbiased judge at a whiskey tasting, would you say, well, if it's not peted, it's not going to get a high mark because that's what I like. Um comparing this to all the other similar kinds of whiskeys, it doesn't have some of those other RV characteristics that that would make it rank higher. If I was going to rate it, and I'm not, but if I was going to rate it as an independent, unbiased judge, I'd probably give it, what'd you say, 80? I said 82. I'd give it higher than that. 85, maybe, 84. But if I'm rating this on how much I liked it, how much did I enjoy that taste? It's been actually quite a while since I had a taste of it. It kind of surprised me again this evening how how good it is.

Aaron 57:51

It's always fun to come back and try something you haven't had in a while.

Tom 57:55

Yes. And I hadn't had this in a while, and I thought my my thought was, heck, I don't even remember it tasting this good the first time I had it, and I was surprised.

Aaron 58:03

So you give it an 82 and a half?

Tom 58:05

Uh I might go quite a lot higher when it comes to just how much I like it. I'm gonna come in at a 90. A 90? Yes, I really like it. And that's and that and that there again, that's not an impartial judge rating. That's that's me personally.

Aaron 58:21

Gavin's gonna go back and watch this episode and realize that he has been misplaying his hand by only going one point higher than me.

Tom 58:29

He should he should be coming in over the top with the big score every time. One point higher? Here, hold my beer, Watson.

Aaron 58:38

So I will say it's been a lot of fun talking about surprise whiskeys tonight. Um, it was such a fun surprise to have you here.

Tom 58:48

We can fight with our fists off camera later.

Aaron 58:52

That'll be the extended version. Extended version. All right. So I I had to I had to be very careful to make sure I left just enough for a cheers at the end.

Tom 59:02

Gavin's a heavy drinker. He poured me, he poured me one for Gavin. That's that's that's a week's worth of Scotch for me. Uh, don't worry, we'll get to the end more.

Aaron 59:10

Don't worry. All right, so to everyone out there, on behalf of dad, thank y'all for joining us. Cheers. Thank you for joining us. Slunge.

Speaker 2 59:24

We want to thank you, our noble listener, for joining us. We believe each whiskey has a story, and so do you. So give us your thoughts by leaving a comment. And if you have a whiskey you would like to see us share, let us know. You don't want to miss a single episode, but subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Aaron 59:38

And make sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok to stay up to date on the Noble Dream.

Speaker 2 59:43

If you find watching us difficult, you can always listen to each episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. As always, be noble and enjoy your journey responsibly.