The Noble Dram | The Whiskey Trip - Collaboration | Part 2 (Season 2 | Ep. 8)

Part 2 of our crossover conversation with Big Chief from The Whiskey Trip is here—and this one goes deep into the heart of whiskey, storytelling, and the rise of Texas whiskey.

After kicking things off in Part 1 over on The Whiskey Trip, Aaron and Gavin welcome Big Chief back to The Noble Dram table to continue the conversation around whiskey culture, community, and the pours that leave a lasting impression.

🥃 Aaron shares: Glenmorangie - Signe Highland Single Malt - 46% ABV
🥃 Gavin pours: Oban 15 - 2025 Limited Release Highland Single Malt - 55.3% ABV

Together, the guys dive into:
Big Chief’s journey onThe Whiskey Trip
Why Texas whiskey stands apart in American whiskey
Whiskey as community, not competition
The stories behind the pour
What makes a whiskey experience memorable

This episode is less about hype and more about what whiskey was always meant to be—good pours shared with great people.

If you missed Part 1, go check it out over on The Whiskey Trip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfVjhKUGQ84
🥃 Pour up and join the conversation.

New episodes drop every Thursday.🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or iHeartRadio
📺 Watch the full episode on YouTube

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Larceny Private Barrel
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/1984702417357?aff=oddtdtcreator
Elijah Craig Private Barrel
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/1984162846486?aff=oddtdtcreator 

The Whiskey Trip: https://thewhiskeytrip.com/
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Transcript

Gavin 0:00

This week on the noble dream, the exciting conclusion of our conversation with Big Chief. And if you missed it, Aaron and I had an amazing opportunity to sit down on his show, The Whiskey Trip, where we got to talk all things Texas from football to barbecue and a couple of bourbons. You know what? Enough about last week. Buckle up Buttercup as we take a ride with the big chief. We are so excited that you're here with us. Uh and uh it's a little different than normal. No, we got an extra one. Yeah. We picked him up on the side of the road. Because you know what? He's whiskey tripping, just a little homeless guy walking down the road. So for those who missed or don't follow whiskey trip, we got to be on Big Chiefs show a couple of weeks ago. And we said this was so much fun recording this that we needed to do more. And so now we get to have you on our show. Yeah. This is quite a bit of fun.

Big Chief 1:33

So first, let me say thanks for being here. Well, I appreciate you guys having me. Uh I mean, the first episode was a blast. But I think I don't usually get interviewed by people. Well, I do. Uh not typically.

Aaron 1:47

I saw some of Gavin's questions. You are screwed. Does it feel awkward to be in the hot seat? I do not have hemorrhoids, by the way. Let me take that one off a little bit. All right. We're we're up there. All right. So before we get into whiskey, because we always like to race straight into whiskey, I noticed Gavin's already got his bottle out. He's he's so antsy. Um why don't you tell our viewers a little bit about whiskey trip and big chief? Well, it's the whiskey trip.

Big Chief 2:17

Oh, sorry. Then I don't want to get sued because Gary Stewart owns whiskey trip. Uh oh. Is it the or the? The it's on the glass. No, no, I know, but you pronounce it the or the. Well, you give me and Gavin a shit of a time. Yeah. Oh, about it. But it's the whiskey trip, right? Okay. Uh and I guess the whiskey trip is about taking a just taking a ride and uh taking an adventure, going to different distilleries. Uh, and I always say I want to be the Paul Harvey of whiskey, right? Uh I want to tell a story. I want to, you know, when I go to a distillery, and the first thing I say to them, they're like, hey, we're gonna give you this whiskey. I'm I didn't come for your whiskey. I came to steal your story, right? I want to put that story out to the world. And I want the story nobody else knows. Uh one of the best stories I've ever gotten was from Marlene Holmes at Mailman Green, and she's uh she's telling me about her and Booker No, is when she was a distillery supervisor at Jeff Beam and about feeding these catfish. And I was like, wow, that's a story right there. Uh that's the kind of stories I'm looking for. While the whiskey is great, I'm also want to meet people and connect people. You know, if somebody says, hey, what's your superpower? I'd say, minus connection uh between folks. And that's how I met you guys. Don't be scared to go up to somebody and say, Hey, my name is, you know, Mike Hyatt, or, you know, my moniker of being big chief. Uh don't go up, you know, don't be afraid to go up to somebody and introduce yourself and say, hey, let's get out there in the world a little bit.

Aaron 3:50

You may not be able to pick this up on the on the screen, but Gavin and I are both sitting on phone books to try to look bigger next to Mike.

Big Chief 3:57

Now come on, how tall are you? Uh about 6'2. So I'm I'm at that same height, right? Uh, but I I'll probably outweigh you probably a good 75 pounds, I would think.

Aaron 4:07

You're uh you're a me and a Gavin together, what's your thing? Gavin's a tiny little fella. Let me he's a lumber clock.

Big Chief 4:13

290, 290 right now. You you you you got me by about 75 pounds.

Gavin 4:19

We're not gonna tell you where we're at. What are you at? A buck 40? Uh a little heavier. I'm about 180. 180. My very first driver's license at one at 14 years old. I was 185 pounds. I think on my 14.

Big Chief 4:33

Oh, that's when I got my first driver's license, then I was 225 at 14. Uh that's a big boy, even then. Yeah, I mean he was big chief. Did not hurt one of the ladies, though.

Aaron 4:45

I will I will say I was not 6'2 at 14, though. I was a I was a late sprouter, so I was a much shorter 185. You were a gumby at that point. All right. So if you watched a couple Tuesdays ago when we were on the whiskey trip, you kind of know where the conversation has been so far and what we talked about. And where we really kind of focused was this idea of whiskies that were surprising, right? The stories behind people that surprised us that make things great. So I gave Gavin and I the challenge of you need to pick a whiskey that doesn't taste like the things they normally produce. What is that surprise whiskey? You picked American-made products. So Gavin and I said we got to go overseas. And so we have picked two scotches tonight. All right. That are atypical from their distilleries. That's our theme. That's our theme. So I get to go first.

Big Chief 5:47

Gavin looks like he's got the working man's bottle, and you got to.

Aaron 5:50

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Mine is bougie as hell. Look how shiny that thing is.

Big Chief 5:54

All right. You can't even see inside of it. It's like a pair of rims. Just hide. Just hold that.

Gavin 5:59

Let's hold that top. That's a nice. You could kill somebody. Yes. No, that is fabulous. This is like a Freya ranch. This is I'm gonna let you, I'm gonna let you pour your own so that way then I'm not in trouble for overpouring anything. Can I can I just say, first and foremost, thank you for the bourbon bullshitter shirts. Yes. We're drinking scotch in bourbon bullshitter shirts. I'm sure the Scottish would love this. So but you know, what's the what was this aged in? What's the so this one has been aged in a variety of barrels? Bourbon, obviously, in that mix. So it's really just dirty bourbon, as it said on the first dirty bourbon. Um, I'm gonna tell you it's delicious dirty bourbon, though. All right, so let's start with a little bit about Glenn Maranji. Glenn Maranji is actually really, really known for their barrel selection program. So they actually own Forest and a Cooperage in Missouri and make their own barrels, then lease those barrels to Jack Daniels and Jim Bean. And so that's how they get their ex-bourbon. And so if you ever go and take a look at Glimerangy, what you'll really notice is they do a lot of specialty finishing barrels, a variety of different wines, other bourbons, all of that. But this one, this one specifically is completely different from that. What makes Signet special is that they heavily, heavily toast their barley. So a dark roasted chocolate malt is what they refer to it as. So this one clocks in at 46% ABV for those people who like to live on the Imperial. That's uh 92 proof. We're going down a little bit. There is a there is no age statement on this, but they believe most of this product is somewhere between 15 and 21 years old. Um, this is produced one week a year during Signet Week, typically in October. So you will find this kind of hits the shelves and it's available and then it disappears for a while, right? While they wait for the next year's release.

Big Chief 8:10

So this would be considered a sweet mash, all most Scottish whiskey at most.

Gavin 8:20

Yeah. Absolutely. So in traditional form for our show, we're going to come back at the end and talk about what we smell and taste and and and we'll give numbers to them and I'll walk you through exactly how we we uh parse out numbers because we are different than a lot of shows. And the fact that we routinely rate things less than 95. We find most shows are like the scores are anywhere from 94 to 97. I was like, well, that didn't really tell me much about the whiskey of every whiskey you rate is always up in that range.

Big Chief 8:52

So I gotta say the nose on this. I love the nose. It's very beautiful. And on the last week's show or the first half of this, you commented on the the F E bottle and how beautiful. Very beautiful bottle. Yes. But it almost looks like they're trying to hide something in the bottle. Uh just because of the blackness of it and stuff. And I always, I don't know, it's just something about me. What are you trying to hide?

Gavin 9:16

I I feel the same way. I'm a bottle kind of guy. I like I like the way bottles look. And you know, Aaron always has the adage of you eat with your eyes first or you drink with your eyes first, right? You you see something, even at a book, right? You judge the book by its cover for sure when it comes to whiskey. Uh, if it's a bottle that is completely black or completely whited out, and you can't see anything in it, it's really hard to judge the liquid inside with your eyes. Because you just you just can't see it. Right. Yeah, but there's also a bit of a premium whiskey feels right in a premium bottle. Right? Like if if every whiskey was served in a plastic jug, it wouldn't feel the same. I mean, part of the I go, oh, you dropped it and it bounced. That's not a good whiskey.

Big Chief 10:08

I don't know. Maybe this one, because it kind of smokes down to uh um no, you can you can see a bit of the color on the bottom, right? It's it's like singing a thong on a woman. This is the whale tail of whiskeys. I like where your head's at tails. I like where your head's at. You're like, oh, what is that? But no, uh, God almighty, that that's a good whiskey. My question would be how much did that bottle? So this this bottle MSRP is at $220.

Gavin 10:35

That's a big bourbon bottle, rather. Yeah, now we're making a big jump from probably the bottles. No, no, no, no, no. You do now you're making it sound like you only brought cheap stuff. The stuff we had last in the first half was very, very tasty.

Big Chief 10:47

I will tell you that eight-year-old is not uh around the same price, but pr pretty expensive.

Gavin 10:54

Which is a which is a fun thing to kind of talk through. So on part one of this um collaboration that we're doing, we did talk a lot about Texas whiskeys, right? Or we started that conversation. So now I'd like to actually go back to some of that. Yeah. Right. Um Yes, we are drinking scotch and we are going to we're gonna talk Texas. We're gonna talk Texas. That's all right. But you know, this is this is part of uh the fun of magic, right? Of whiskey podcasting magic. So big chief. Texas whiskey has a distinct identity, right? And I think sometimes we struggle, and we talked about it a little bit in your episode, where like the United States doesn't really have whiskey regions quite yet, but we may be getting there at some point. You know, Texas whiskey has a um kind of a an identity of hotter, aging, bigger oak, bolder profiles. What was the first Texas whiskey that stopped you in your tracks? I was like, ah, this is different and I like it.

Big Chief 12:06

I would say I have to say Iron Root Harbinger, uh, just like I am. I was like, holy shit, this is some kind of magical stuff. And maybe it was the licorice family themselves and uh Marcia, the mother of Texas whiskey, but the whiskey in the glass and the way that they uh maturate their barrels, uh to me, they maturate their barrels like the French uh maturate brandy, right? Uh they are just totally different in life. So Iron Root uh would be that Harbinger uh just kind of opened my eyes up to say, oh man, these whiskies are a little bit different than what I tasted before in uh Garrison Brothers or Balcone's uh with their uh I they weren't American single moths at the time, but they're single moths uh in tasting those. So that would be it. The iron just was like, God dang, this is good.

Gavin 13:04

Was what made that one stand out because it was so much like other regions' whiskeys, or was it was on its own, it was good, independent, not like everyone else.

Big Chief 13:15

I think they're not China made Kentucky bourbon or Texas whiskey, they're making their whiskey. And I think that's what people need to understand about distilleries. Uh even in Kentucky, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, that's Kentucky bourbon. But there's a big difference between Buffalo Traces whiskey and let's say uh Heaven Hill, where uh Buffalo Trace's rye spice, uh you know, these big chocolate notes and stuff, and they're in their rye, or not they're rye, but they're wheat. Uh what you have with Heaven Hill is you got this peanut taste, this nuttiness, right? And you get the same thing down in that Barrestown region. So it's even in Kentucky, there's regions to me, uh, you know, where Heaven Hill is even further north than what Maker's Mark is. Uh so you know, I think it to me, what stood out about the Herbinger, number one, it's hireproof. I think it's 118. Uh it was a younger whiskey which surprised me. Uh you know, and I I'm not an ageist uh in whiskey. I think some whiskey nerds are gonna be ageist and be like, well, Scotch has to be this old and uh bourbon has to be this old. I look for it as a regional thing, right? I look at the terroir and where it was made, and it's like wine. I'm not gonna judge French wine against California wine or against Australia wine or uh let's say Brazil uh or Argentina make some very beautiful wines. I'm not gonna judge those against each other, they all stand out for their own uh terroir. Yeah, and I think whiskey we need to do the same thing.

Gavin 14:59

I think when we get down to scoring, I was gonna say we often say, well, this has the same s number as that bourbon we also take. But those that does not mean those are the same, right? The range we we try to say an a 90 from bourbon is different than a 90 from scotch, right? We're comparing them to their their like kind, but one of the fun parts is when you stumble into a whiskey that is like, man, that kind of breaks the mold, right? That's not what you typically think of, um, which is distinctly different here than what you think of when you think of Highland Scotch, right? Normally I start thinking about light, sweet floral notes and maltiness, and all the maltiness here is completely different than what you typically uh typically see.

Big Chief 15:50

So I this has like this, you know, and also we were gonna talk about tasty notes, but on the very back end of my palate, I had a little bit of smokiness on this. And I'm looking at that beautifulness of this whiskey. And I'm not trying to judge this against any other whiskey, right? It's what's in the glass right now. What glass am I drinking it in? That that matters. If you drink it in a rock's glass over a big old giant chunk of ice, uh, that can change the complexity of this whiskey the same as it would anything else. If you drink it, uh, it depends on what kind of ice you're using to steel dice. Uh, are you using just tap water that has a bunch of chlorine and fluoride in it and stuff? Or are you drinking it with just some store-bought ice just full of trash?

Gavin 16:35

What was your glass washed in? Yeah, even though it's a bit.

Big Chief 16:38

If you wash it and you like cook, let's say your wife had a mixing bowl and she whisked it up some scrambled eggs for you in the morning, right? She sticks that in a dishwasher and you stick that same glass in that dishwasher, you might as well throw that glass away or rewash it because it's gonna take some of the things that we're gonna smell argument.

Gavin 16:55

So yeah. So my dad has this exact same argument about coffee, and he won't let my mom wash the coffee mug he drinks out of every morning with anything else for this exact same reason. I I think shape of glass matters, right? We're we're drinking out of these great the whiskey trips. Spay, spay rock's glass, right? Yeah, um, that's a little different shape, neck size, opening size, then you get out of a Glen Karen, then certainly yeah, you get out of a rock's glass or a highball. Um that ultimately does change your perception. Um, I was intrigued. My so my wife being a wine person, she actually talks about smelling the front edge of the glass versus the far side of the glass. Oh. And how some compounds are heavier, and when you rock the glass, some compounds actually roll across the bottom of the glass, and some of the lighter compounds roll across the top of the glass. Now, all my Glencarens, that distance is this far, and my nose is about the same size. So I'm not positive I get a difference on in Glenclarens, but certainly in wine glasses, right? Um, I had a buddy who did a wine tasting and they got to the end and they told him it was the same wine in every glass. It was just a different shaped glass. And they were talking about all the different uh nuances that they had picked up. Do you all ever find yourself like at you know, drinking a soda and sticking your nose in the glass? Like no, that's just really weird.

Big Chief 18:15

Like we're like, no, I've never done that.

Gavin 18:17

Like I've done that. Like I was like, I'm like, oh, oh, this is soda. Like maybe it's RC Cola? Yeah, exactly. You're a pib guy, aren't you? No, I I'm definitely not Mr. Pib. Is that is that as a big insult? Is it in King of the Cross? Oh my gosh. You're a Pibb guy. We're from Oklahoma, so we're Dr. Pepper. What I will say is AMC theaters, no carmike theaters, are from Georgia. Georgia are Pib folk. And so um it's because of Coke. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so my brother um worked at a movie theater for many years in Oklahoma when he was in high school and college. And so I get into movies for free all the time. And I go in there and I get soda, and I was like, you know, it's Mr. Pibb. It's just not it's not the same.

Big Chief 19:07

It's well, it's not, it's it's shameful, so shameful. So shameful. But I'm surprised you would drink it because it's from Texas. Oh, yeah. I mean, it is. No, there's a whole story behind Dr. Pepper. Yeah.

Gavin 19:20

The the hatred that Oklahoma has for Texas, I don't know as if Oklahoma State has that hatred. They don't because you know. There's a bit of like enemy of my enemy is my friend, right?

Big Chief 19:33

Well, they're like, we're nice. I hate to say this. You're like the Texas AM of Oklahoma. No, that's fair. That's fair.

Gavin 19:42

Now we're I can't I have clients out there that can't talk about this. Most states have a bit of the like the city kid school and the country kid school, right? I came from the country kids' school in my state as well. So well, to be fair, we were Oklahoma AM before we were Oklahoma State. So I'm not gonna throw this around, but the very first AM university in the country was Kansas State. So everyone else follows that. So we were the Kansas State IDs way back in the day. Long before the AM.

Big Chief 20:12

I thought Georgia Georgia Tech was.

Gavin 20:14

Oh my god. Yeah, you have to let us know down in the comments for sure. The one Georgia fan that launches. Yeah. Um, so uh I got another question for you. Um so we've talked, obviously, Texas, we've talked some Kentucky, and we've talked Scotch in Scotland a little bit. Um, for the folks out there that say, you know, that they don't like Texas or Texas can't hold up to a Kentucky whiskey, like what is that one Texas whiskey that outside of kind of that one that spoke to you your first Texas whiskey that really made you stop in your tracks? If there was another Texas whiskey that or a bottle that you would say this really holds up to a Kentucky whiskey?

Big Chief 21:03

I think right now Steele Austin is showing that. Uh number one, they're putting the money behind the marketing of it, but they're also column steel, right? And that's uh I think that's a lot of the people that are right on the verge of being a whiskey nerd, they just don't understand enough about pot steel versus column steel. We talked a little bit on the second or the first half uh about that, but understanding that they're using a column steel, uh they palletizer whiskey, but so do people in Kentucky. But I think they're the ones right now that are showing that diversity in whiskey and showing that they can stand up against a Kentucky bourbon. But it's more about marketing though, than it is anything. It's not the whiskey itself, it's marketing.

Gavin 21:50

I mean, I I think you're right. I think Still Austin is making really good whiskey. I think what helps Still Austin is they're making a very Kentucky style of whiskey for the Vast majority of the product. It's got a lot of those similar profiles. But the part I find most intriguing is all of the ones people chase and all the accolades come when they break that and go do something different that isn't, right? Whether it's red corn or blue corn, um, it's when they break that mold and go do something atypical. That's where the accolades seem to find.

Big Chief 22:22

I I think that, you know, even Kentucky, if let's let's just get it real. If you just took Jim Beam White Label and Trust once we did this one. Or even a benchmark, just a oh, benchmark off of the shelf, right? Because that's Buffalo Trace.

Gavin 22:44

I don't know how well you do research, but this is like every one of the first six episodes we did. This is what we did. We're gonna start at the bottom and work our way up. And we did all these.

Big Chief 22:52

Tell me that you would put any of those up against any Steel Austin regular, their regular discipline. And tell me how they fare in a blind. For sure. For sure. And then come back and talk to me. Uh, don't just say, well, I drink Texas whiskey. Uh that's the same thing with Scotch. Don't just tell me, hey, you hate scotch or you hate Irish whiskey. Because I want to then I want to know what did you what did you drink before that you made it, you not like it.

Gavin 23:23

It's probably, you know, it's probably somebody that was like, oh, here, taste this, and it is so high proof, or it is so peted, that that's what their first introduction is. And so they don't know kind of the complexity of it, or they don't know the other side of it, and they're just they get this one thing and they're like, Nope, don't like it, never want to taste it again.

Big Chief 23:47

This right here is like this nice uh and and some people would be like, I I'm telling you, if you don't go out and try to find your pour of this and like just try it and open your mind up, you're gonna drink it that first sip, and you're gonna be like, Oh, this is this is this is a sexy whiskey that's like drinking a nice orange-spiced hot tea with some honey in it in the wintertime, man.

Gavin 24:17

It's it's even got lace on it. It is so different, it is so different than other whiskies, right? Like this really does kind of deviate from that. So before we get into what we're tasting in the glass, because I do want to come back to that. I I'm curious. We talked a little bit about Scotch, we talked a little bit about Texas, we talked a little bit about Kentucky. Is there an area of the globe right now that you're like, I really like where what's coming out of there? That's where I think something cool is is originating. They're doing they're doing things the right way. Is there a region globally that you love?

Big Chief 24:52

I think globally, the region that's ever gonna shock people is India right now. Um they're building beautiful distilleries. There's some whiskey out of there that's gonna shock some people. Uh, I think in the next 20 years, that's gonna be the place that really, really shocks people. Uh I've got a couple German whiskeys. Uh, that's more the green belt of of Europe. A lot of people don't know that. And the Germans were some of the first that made whiskey in the United States. Uh, I think there are rye's coming out of there that are super beautiful, but um I'm just wondering if we're not gonna see some stuff out of South America that just totally blows people's doors off.

Gavin 25:35

I you don't really see anything coming out of there now, right? Um, it would be intriguing. But yeah, we did we did some whiskies from around the world and we were really surprised by India for sure.

Big Chief 25:45

I just think that's a I mean, the Japanese are already there, right? The Japanese whiskies are some of them are really, really good. Uh, but I think India is that country that makes you wonder. They're also the the country with most alcohol poisoning, uh, because of all the illegal hooch they make there. Uh because of the class system there, if that makes sense. No, no, I'm with you. I'm with you.

Gavin 26:08

All right, so I want to get back to the whiskey. Yep. So um we taught we touched on a little bit, but I'm gonna give you a chance to to kind of fine point it down. We're gonna go nose, then palette, then finish. Is there things about this that jump out to you? Let's start with the nose.

Big Chief 26:25

Uh as I get this like nice toasted uh peach. Um maybe some uh drizzled honey on that peach that when it's worn though. Like grilled. Yes, yeah, it is very, very beautiful nose. Uh when I first hit my palate, I was like, this is like I used to hate apple pie because my mom would make this apple pie and she would just use this. And you remember this, right? This is horrible. But then I met my wife and she was like, I'm gonna make you an apple pie. And I was like, all right. That's a way to a man's heart. She went in there and sliced up these apples really, really thin. And you know, she had extra goop between the layers. She put she put like brown sugar in there and cinnamon.

Gavin 27:17

Can't tank, can't take Gavin anywhere. I apologize for him.

Big Chief 27:22

But then she uh made the crust herself and she took and you know, baked it and put a lattice on it stuff. But when I first sipped on this, it took me back to that that that apple pie that she makes. Uh now I make the apple pies and I'm I put oh bourbon in it. Of course you do.

Gavin 27:39

I I was I was just gonna say, does this part where you tell us you now make better apple pie than your wife? Oh, she's I mean this is this is fighting words.

Big Chief 27:47

A smoke a smoked apple pie. A smoker? Yeah, that sounds amazing.

Gavin 27:52

Like, we can be there in a couple hours have good or whipped up. If I'm cooking, there's whiskey in it somehow, somewhere. I mean what's the end or with it for sure. Yeah, you put whiskey in it again. I'm like, yeah, it's drunken chili. Of course I couldn't.

Big Chief 28:06

Oh I put that's okro in chili?

Gavin 28:09

Yeah, that's so good. But hold up, hold up. You don't put old tub in there? Probably cook with old tub. You gotta cook it out.

Big Chief 28:21

It's like a flat coat, though.

Gavin 28:23

Old tub is just it's like a hot on the nose. What did you pick up? Uh I got uh there's a chocolatey note, like a almost like a dark chocolate. Um I'll be honest, I was somewhat surprised at how light the dark chocolate was on the nose and then how predominant it became on palette and finish. Yes. Uh I also there's a bit of like a coffee-ish note uh on the nose. Yeah, I think I think I'm gonna agree with both of you guys on this. I will say the nose leaned far more on the sweet fruit side. And I think as I moved into the palate in the finish, all of the coffee and chocolate and stuff started to show up. And that that heavily roasted malt, right? I agree, disagree. How are you feeling on this one?

Big Chief 29:10

On the palate? Yeah. Oh, on the palate, it just keeps going and going. Oh, it's like a long, nice finish on it. And stuff, I'm always surprised with that with whiskies, right? Uh I'm looking at your glasses, didn't have a whole lot of legs, and maybe that's the proof. But I'll I always that I used to say this all the time. I'm like, I'd like to see this at cast strength and see what it tastes like. We're going there.

Gavin 29:33

This was this was a debate we actually had um a couple days ago, and I'm kind of curious your take. And I know this, I'm throwing this right in the middle of the tasting notes, but I think there is an argument to be had that sometimes cast strength provides so much proof it covers up, I won't say inferior whiskey, but whiskey that has flaws to it. Whereas when you bring it down in proof, those flaws show up, and you can't hide it as much when you bring it down in proof. I'm curious your take. Which which side of that coin because this was a debate, right?

Big Chief 30:07

Um I think distillers, they are trying to hide something, they're proofing it down. There's some flaw in there. They thought, oh, this doesn't drink good, Australia barrel. But that's typically European style, they don't drink high-proof whiskeys. And that really Americans drink didn't drink high-proof whiskey. Even moonshine, right? Is I a moonshiner told us. He's like, I would never sell moonshine at 140 proof. I sell it at 100-proof because that's what people can drink. He's like, you know what happens to a man that drinks the whole jar of Mason jar of 140 moonshine. Jump off a mountain. Yeah, he's like, so but I it's still beautiful whiskey. I uh and I don't think nothing is hidden inside this glass. Uh it tastes just a hints of of almost white chocolate to me. There's no darn chocolate on this. Um and but that's my palate. Um very still that tea, you know, and honey is coming out to me and hitting me at the right spot. That honey note, crisp apple all the way on this. I just I'm looking for that memory. And that memory of my wife making apple pie and you're eating it, and maybe just a dab of um you know, vanilla ice cream with it. Very beautiful whiskey. Uh do I know if it's worth that price or not? I'm like, absolutely.

Gavin 31:36

So to me, where this one really breaks out and gets different is on the finish. Because on the on the nose I had sweet fruit, on the palate, I got a little bit more chocolate and espresso. And then on the finish, I run through all of that again. I've got I've got chocolate, it almost starts milk chocolate and ends dark chocolate where your mouth dries a bit and it kind of creates that little bit of pucker. And then there's just this hint of orange that shows up as it dries. Yeah. And it brings fruit back into it.

Big Chief 32:14

And I that's I really like the way that kind of brings you full circle on the I was gonna say there's not really enough leather in this room for this bottle, I don't think. I just don't feel like uh there could be a whole bunch of things. It's because I can't see Gavin's pants.

Gavin 32:26

That's the same as leather pants. So on the finish, I think it I put orange, um, and then I put like a smoky ash. It's not smoky as your traditional like um smoky scotch would be. There's uh it's almost like um like after the campfire has been blazing and it's just the embers going, and there's a little bit of ash. Like that's what I got mixed with a bit of orange. So it's almost like the orange fell into ash, and then you tried to eat it. Yeah, Gavin gets out there.

Big Chief 33:00

Gavin, I just should have warned you on that one. Yeah, that smokiness from the campfire. You know, and you're eating a s'more, but if you had that toasted a little bit, that's where you know you ever had that s'more cooker. You know what I'm talking about? That was like the cast iron. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you put it in there and you're, you know, you put it in the fire and you're cooking it. That graham cracker gets a little bit of smoke in the kind of filters in.

Gavin 33:29

It's different than a normal s'more where you just toast the marshmallow and then try to use that heat to melt the chocolate on a untoasted graham cracker. And I don't know if that's a different flavor made for.

Big Chief 33:39

I think it was made for like grilled cheese sandwiches or something back in the day. But that's I've cooked s'mores in there, and it's just filters in there.

Gavin 33:45

Can we just say s'more is the best version of a grilled cheese sandwich ever?

Big Chief 33:50

I don't know. We just had grilled cheese sandwiches the other day for dinner. All right. Well, my mother-in-law ate coconut shrimp in front of us. Oh. I was like, man, I know. I was like, we're just eating bread and butter over here, and you're eating fancy.

Gavin 34:06

All right, so it's it's that time where we put numbers to things. So I want to give you a rundown of how we score so you can at least try to match that that system. In our mind, anything 60 and below is undrinkable swill. The 60s represent I would drink it, but only if you bought it for me. The 70s are I would drink it, but I wouldn't buy a bottle of it. 80s are I'd love to have a bottle. 90s are I have a bottle and I don't share it unless I really know you appreciate it. Nothing goes above 99. That's our that's our premise when we put numbers. And as the guy who picks them but picked the barrel, I mean I get to be the one that goes last. So as as the guest, understanding 70s only uh or 60s only if Gavin or I bought it for you. 70s, you'd you'd buy a glass at the bar, but you didn't need to own a bottle. 80s is have a bottle, 90 is keep it in the back of the stack so nobody knows you got it.

Big Chief 35:09

I'm a whiskey like nerd. I love all whiskeys, uh, but I would say right around like 88 to 91 on this, right? Yeah. To where because the price point on this is you know, I and I don't I probably buy less whiskey than both of you put together, right? Uh at this point in my life and where my shows that, but I would still buy this and put it back unless I knew you really number one deserve to drink it. Yeah. But but I I think somewhere in that range 88 to 91. All right. I'll have to put a hyphen in your score when we put it on the back. Is this uh has uh as the guy who writes the whiskey Bible? What's that guy's name? Uh not Mike Jackson. Almost GM Morrison or something. Doors the doors?

Gavin 35:59

No, no, that's a different guy. I forgot what his name is, but oh Charles. Isn't it Charles? Now we're gonna figure it out. I'm gonna have to edit this entire section out of the episode. We'll just put it we'll just put it in it. I'm leaving it in it.

Big Chief 36:11

I'm just wondering where other people score it. Uh but I think you're right.

Gavin 36:15

Well, no, no, Gavin's gonna give it a number here in a second. I think it's gonna be too. I mean, yeah, yeah. So um I'm with you. I put it at a 91. Good lord. Are you kidding me? No, no, no, Mike, read the number I wrote down. 90. 91. 91. So this is like a 91. I mean, asterisk a little bit. We all settled in a 91. You didn't tell me I had to have a hard number. No, I'm so big a number. Not a fine, you're fine, you're fine. We'll put 91 for all three of them. The part I find the part I find really intriguing is sitting listening to our tasting notes. You tasted something different than what Gavin tasted, and and that was still a little different than what I had. But yet we all ultimately came back and said, that's the kind of bottle I would love to have, and I would share with somebody special.

Big Chief 37:04

So I I drank whiskey with somebody not too long ago, and I they're a newer whiskey drinker, right? And um like a mu newer kind of whiskey drinker? No, they're just newer. Great person, I think. And but they were telling me their tasting notes, and I was like, there's no way that this person is able to tell me this. I'm like, I think you're just throwing stuff out there. Um and I think over time a person's palate develops to where the amount of whiskey that I drink per year uh is way more than what the normal typical person, even a whiskey nerd.

Gavin 37:49

The 70-pound difference between you and I's liver alone.

Big Chief 37:55

Well, I'm not talking about the amount of that. I'm talking about the amount of bottles. Yeah, no, I I understand. You know, like it let's say a whiskey social, right? How many different bottles of whiskey did you taste that night? Well, I tried to do all of them.

Gavin 38:12

That's the inherent problem of going to a wick whiskey expo like that is like same thing with bottle shares. Yeah, once you get to a certain point, your palate is toast. Like you're not, there's no point in drinking anymore. Right. You're now just enjoying yourself. You're not really there for you. I find the challenge tends to be is that you get together with buddies and you have a couple drinks. And you and then after about the third one, you're like, ooh, we should drag out the and I'm like, why are we dragging out the good stuff at the end of the night when we should have started with small pores of that at the beginning when we could truly appreciate it?

Big Chief 38:47

I think that's a good, you know, that's a good suggestion to people to start their bottle shares and say, hey, because I did that, uh, you know, and I challenged a guy. I said, if you can get up off that chair, and he was sleeping at my bar. I was like, if you can get up off that chair, you can have the rest of this king of Kentucky. He couldn't, I knew he couldn't make it up off his door. I was like, well, everybody else was like, I'll take it for him. It's gotta be him.

Gavin 39:14

But yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that bottle share saying, listen, I'm bringing out, I'm bringing out a big one. We're all gonna have a pour, and then I'm putting it away. But to start if it do it, do it at the beginning, not at the end.

Big Chief 39:24

Or maybe you're two two pores in. Because my argument has always been the third pore is the best one. Yeah, you need to get rimmed up a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Get that get that palette going a little bit. What a number one, a beautiful bottle. Uh, I know it gave a shit for because it's black. No, but if the whole thing was black, and I then I would be like, what's hiding? But it kind of is like, like I said, uh it's it's got a peekaboom moment.

Gavin 39:46

Yeah, peekabur moment. All right. This puts us to bottle number two, Gavin. Hi. Be so kind. Yes. I'm gonna I'm gonna let a little secret out here. This is not the first time I've tried this one. Walk and tell. That's the one. No, no, no, no. That's Gavin's bottle. I've I I own four different, or I own four of these bottles and only have one and a half left. That's how much I've enjoyed those. So, our back patio group, I think everyone pretty much has this bottle. We stumbled into it, and when we found it, we immediately called and ordered from the distributor every bottle they had left on the shelf. It is cute. He's a heavy, he's a heavy guy. That's why he lets you pour it yourself. I'm like, easy little fellow. So this next bottle is the open 15 cast strength. Um, oloroso and palo cortado cast strength urban. We are clocking in at 55.3% ABV. And for those out there, the math runs out to 110.6 proof.

Big Chief 40:59

You know, people always ask me, they're like, and I'm sure the guys or gals ask you the same thing. What's your favorite whiskey? Third, third glass of every time.

Gavin 41:09

We just talked about it, it's the third one.

Big Chief 41:11

And I'm like, what's the whiskey? The next whiskey on my trip, right? Is uh that I'm fine down the road and stuff. And I I haven't had this before. But if the palette matches the nose on this, this is a just a sexy nose.

Gavin 41:25

This one came out. We we literally bought up everything left they had in Houston. And then like two months later, the whiskey advocates top 20 list of the year came out, and this one was like number three or number four. Number two. You're still in my stealing it. Sorry, sorry. Uh, it ranked number two in whiskey advocates uh top 20 in 2025. So this is the 2025 release. Oh my lord, that's good. Uh, this is finished for over four years in the Olaroso and Palo Cortado sherry casks.

Big Chief 41:57

And the and the palate matches the nose. No, it's spot on. It's spot on. This is why I drink whiskey right here. Yeah. Uh, is to people say, hey Mike, you need to try this. And I I can't thank you enough for bringing that out. A special bottle to you two, obviously. But um, let me try that is now I'm gonna have to find a bottle of it. So so stick one in my back. Yeah, yeah.

Gavin 42:22

There's a skew there may be some floor whiskey over here. Floor whiskey. So what we're I'm gonna I'm gonna give a little sneak. Big Chief's show does a giveaway every week. And we're not we're not normally giveaway guys, but in honor of you being here, we wanted to do a giveaway. So what we're going to do, assuming we can twist his arm into letting us have a little bit of the bottles from the first half, is we're gonna do a set of four tasters so you can get all four of them that we tried on the show tonight, and that will be our giveaway for this week.

Big Chief 42:52

I love it. Well, I'll tell you what, we'll throw an extra whiskey trip glass in with those tasters. That would be awesome. Awesome.

Gavin 42:57

That would be great. That would be great. All right. I want to get back a little bit to the idea. We talked about the hurdles and the things that Gavin and I have been going through in a podcast, but you've been doing this a lot longer, right? Like this is easy. This old hat for you now. I don't know if anything's easy. Your show, if at home you don't check it out, go check it out. But it is very time out, don't do it right now. Finish watching the show. And then you get hold up, pause, go subscribe, come back, finish the show, and you'll catch next Tuesday's episode as it goes live. Um, you do a lot of interviewing people to hear the story, right? That's that's the premise of the show. I'm curious, have you ever had that moment where you're like, I cannot believe I've got so and so in front of a microphone with me? Has there been a moment that you're like straw strong? And it may not be recent, it may have been years ago now, right? But was there that person you're like, ugh. This is so cool. Can't believe this has really happened.

Big Chief 44:03

Um, I don't feel like I've ever been starstruck and stuff. Uh, you know, have I got to interview some just downright amazing people? Gavin and I were on like a week and a half ago. Come on, we were the stars of that show. I I don't think I have guys, I've just never been like that to where somebody's like, Do you know who that is? Or have I had big guests on my I had an old podcast called The Bourbon Road and uh live some of the so through the same some struggles that you guys have having a co-host and schedules and that, but never a person that you know, and I've got to interview the lar the you know the biggest people in the industry, uh, you know, Brent Elliott Four Roses or uh uh now I'm gonna forget his name. God dang it. Danny Potter from from Maker's Mark. Now he's uh with Potter Jane, his own brand. But uh interviewing those folks, I think when I sit down and interview them, I just try to treat per a person as a normal person. And if you're starstruck, you get lost in a moment and stuff. Do am I excited about getting to interview, you know, Freddie No from Jim Beam and Fred No, hell yeah. That's to me, that's uh a a great uh accomplishment for my show. That means I I had probably made it to the pinnacle where I was gonna be at and stuff. But do I get starstruck? No, because I'm there to to do a I'm a professional, I guess. And maybe that was my military background and what I do for a living, is I'm not starstruck when I speak to a senator or congressman. Somebody's like, hey, you know what? No, it's like it's because they're really not that politicians.

Gavin 45:47

We're hitting in there, it's a whole different thing. But no, I depends on if they're Republican or Democrat is whether or not you're not teasing.

Big Chief 45:54

I just don't get starstruck like that. I just uh even with you know, I'm gotten into music now. We were right when COVID hit, uh, we were just about to have Sturgil Simpson on. And I might have got a little starstruck then. Um, but I don't I don't know if I would have or not. I just I just feel like they're just a person that puts on their pants, like just like me. No, they have somebody else put their pants on. That's how famous they are. And I don't know if there's anybody in whiskey like that. You ever heard the story about Jimmy Russell and Matthew McConaughey? And Matthew McConaughey thinks he's like a big deal. And he is, he's a movie star, right? But at the same time, Jimmy Russell's a big deal. Yeah. And he's like, I'm Matthew McConaughey. And he's like, I'm Jimmy Russell. And he's like, but I've made a bunch of movies. And he's like, Well, I've made a bunch of whiskey. Uh it's just to me, that's it's an interesting question.

Gavin 46:52

Which would you be more excited to get to meet in person? I already know. We got we got to meet Jimmy when we were in when we went and visited uh Turkey.

Big Chief 47:00

I don't know. Matthew McConaughey is a Texas lawnmower. Yeah. My wife's a lot of people. All the more reason not to like she would be very expensive if I could interview Matthew McConahe. Oh my lord.

Gavin 47:11

I'm sure your wife would sit in on that interview. That's the one that's the one time my wife would drink whiskey right now. So we actually, years ago, um, I got into doing whiskey tastings for customers and stuff. And so I would always pick some sort of goofball theme, right? And so we did a Matthew McConaughey night, and it was all rye, all right, all right. And so that was our theme they were only rye whiskeys. And then he comes out with long branch. I'm like, well, I kind of gotta put that in this tasting, but it's not a rye whiskey, and I didn't it threw me way off.

Big Chief 47:45

I I just don't get starstruck by people. Uh I don't except if I'm super inebriated and I'm at a uh Fleetwood Matt concert. Okay. Uh Steamy Nix comes out, then yeah. That's fair enough.

Gavin 48:01

That'll that'll be your bucket list. Maybe Paula Bean. All right, well that gets that gets the that gets my last better. Get out of brand. All right, so you you've sat down and interviewed a lot of people. Some people are talkers, some people aren't talkers. Like as somebody who has the struggle of potentially having to carry the conversation or sometimes try to get a word in edgewise, has there been interviews you're like that one got out of hand on me? Um, either way. Right? Like if you want to tell a God, that was like pulling teeth kind of story, or if you want to tell a story like it was supposed to be 15 minutes and two and a half hours later, I'm going, uh-huh, uh-huh. And you don't have to drive all the shit. Stop talking it. You don't have to say names if you don't want to talk about it.

Big Chief 48:47

No, I we'll go look up their picture and put it up here above our heads. I talk about this uh on my show two weeks ago. Is uh I've been to Maker's Mark several times and interviewed uh the Master Silver there, the master uh blender, master imagination. Um, but also one of the owners, Rob Stagnels, and uh one of the founders' grandchildren. And uh it was just like reading from a pamphlet. I was like, this is a sales pitch. And I'm not ashamed of saying that about that, but I've had people like that. Uh Mark Rucker from the Bourbon Life said that Harley Wheatley from Buffalo Trace was the same way, you know, just yes and no questions. Um, but the art of being an interviewer is drawing good questions out of people now. When you do draw out a good question, that question might be 30 minutes long, and you're like, who am I ever gonna be able to talk? Uh and where do I fit that in and not interrupt and try to be rude? Right. But you just gotta, I've just found you gotta let it flow. And uh, I don't set my show to one hour. Uh I'll just let it ride. And if it's two and a half hours, um, I think my best episode ever was with uh with you guys now. Uh go check it out. Go check it out. Uh no, with the third best. That's okay. We'll get there. And I go back to the Maker's Mark uh episode. Um, but that episode went like two and a half hours. And I remember my old Kobo's like, that's too long. Nobody's gonna watch it. And that was our most watched episode ever. Uh because people have plenty of time to watch it. Oh, you're gonna be on there, you're gonna go. A little bit here, a little bit there, or you sit down with a whole bottle and you finish the bottle, whatever you're doing.

Gavin 50:30

That's a good night.

Big Chief 50:31

But you need a buddy. I don't have a time limit on it. I just let the conversation flow when the stories come out. And as the more whiskey a person drinks, sometimes the more they'll talk to you. Yeah.

Gavin 50:42

It's always amazing to me. Um, like you can ask 10 questions and get nine yes or no answers, and then one that's the thing they wanted to talk about. That whatever that is, struck a chord, and then they take off, and you're like, I did not see that.

Big Chief 50:58

Yeah, or something that you disagree with, or you're like, I didn't want to talk about that today. I I've got some unaired episodes that I've got those hard rules on my show. We're not gonna talk about politics, right? And we're not gonna talk about religion, and we're not gonna talk about social issues. We're gonna talk about whiskey, right? We talk about barbecue. Well, let me cross that question off. So the wheels turn it over there and say, Yeah, but I I got those hard rules, and I've had an episode where a guy, that's all he talked about, the whole thing was bashing politics. And I was like, I stopped him and I was like, hey, you know, I just am not comfortable with this. And he just kept going, and I was like, and I they called me and said, When's our episode? It's not coming out ever, ever. Uh now that distillery went out of business. I will not name that name, but um the those are the episodes you just gotta roll with them, and uh some of them, some things will never come out like that. And that's stuff like in TV. Well, everything comes out now, it seems like, but nobody's ever gonna hear that episode. Uh, I deleted the stuff and I'm just like moved on. Some stuff you can edit out. Yeah. That's why I don't do live uh live shows, is because the insurance seems like it'd be a lot way more expensive for a live show. I mean, I have been a live show a couple times and I drank too much whiskey on those shows and got uncomfortable. But um just like uncomfortable or I think Brit Brent Elliott, I'd had a great conversation with him, and I fucked up, and for some reason my microphone or his microphone didn't record. And so it's just you asking questions. You can barely hear him, and my old co-host put the episode out. I was like, please don't put that out. We'll just go back to that one. Yeah, and he put it out anyways, and I just I was so embarrassed by it. It it just it broke me almost. I was like, why did you do that? But you know, the show must go on.

Gavin 52:54

It's been thick, and it's a bit disheartening that you'll you'll spend several hours prepping and then and then shoot an episode and that you know it takes a couple hours to shoot an episode, and then you get to the end and realize that we're having mic trouble, and like all of that was for nothing, right? Um I will say that Gavin and I have had a couple of those. And if you if you go back and look at our episodes, the ones that are notably shorter, that's probably because we did that the second time, and we go much faster the second time we're gonna be able to do that.

Big Chief 53:24

Hey, we got all these questions we asked.

Gavin 53:25

We already know, we already know what we're gonna talk about.

Big Chief 53:28

Um that's just the art of the conversation, and uh, I think over time as you guys go along, you're gonna get better and better at it. I bet you look at your first content to now, um, it's probably my index.

Gavin 53:40

If if viewership is any indication, the first episode we ever did was our best one. But I disagree. I think we just had a lot of family that showed up to play. They were like, oh, this is a new thing, we're gonna go do this. I think episode two, they're like, you know, I think I've had enough of that. So you said something that I just want to tag on to. You said the art of conversation, and I think that is very eloquently put. I think is eloquent a word people you typically use to describe you? Uh no. Okay. Well, here we go. Do I look elegant? I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to the never mind. We're gonna move on. Oh, I'm gonna hear the conversation we had off camera about leg day. Oh, yeah. So there we go. Trying to go through the best, the best legs in whiskey podcasts is what have I heard. That's yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

Big Chief 54:30

From a dividend guest, I bet you I'd probably do I mean, I got some I got some snacksy legs for a fat guy. Yeah, the big frame. That's true.

Gavin 54:38

You plenty of workout, big chief legs. Yeah. Um, no, I I I think the art of conversation, the art of storytelling. I think it's so very important and important. And I I love the thought uh and the comment you made about, you know, like I'm not here to sell your whiskey, I'm here to to steal your story. I think that is so cool to think about. Um as Aaron and I've uh started the Noble Dram, we long talked about like every pore tells a story. And we've we've as far as the noble dram have centered mostly around us, our community. Um we don't interview a whole lot, uh, and we would love to do more interviews, so let us know if if that is something that you would be interested in. Um but I think the art of storytelling and the art of conversation um is so very important. And for you, you do it by yourself. And for the most part, right? Like you interview somebody else. And I would find that more nerve-wracking than having a co-host who you can ping-pong things off of. So you're saying I'm your crutch, as well as you are my crutch.

Big Chief 55:59

I I I don't know. There's you know, you might not have grow grow up in a time of watching the nightly news, but definitely uh Aaron and I did, right? And you we watched these great um Walter Cronkite, right? With these great interviewers that just could draw out like uh who was the guy that was it Walter Conkrite that was had a big uh relationship with Muhammad Ali uh his name is, but they were had this art of storytelling and interviewing stuff. And is it well? Sometimes it is tough to do it by myself, or have somebody else in the room watching me uh and trying to text me and say, You should ask this. You should ask, hey, go make your own damn podcast. I've got it in my head what I'm gonna do.

Gavin 56:52

We we've had this debate, right? We have no producer. This is Gavin and I. We kind of do it ourselves. And then you you hear guys that like, yeah, I have a producer and he tip talks to me in my ear while I'm doing this. I don't know how you listen and listen to the conversation at hand and put your thoughts together. Like two-thirds of what we do every night before we film is like, let's run through what is what is the plan, how are we going to handle this so that way then it flows naturally because we don't have somebody giving us feedback on what to do. I think that would be a lot harder.

Big Chief 57:26

Uh, one of the things I have changed over the years, uh, I used to look at my phone a lot why that person was talking. And my wife would catch me doing that. Now, before I started filming, nobody ever noticed that, but I had to break myself for that, right? Um, so that maybe put a little bit more preparation in. And uh people are like, Man, you know a lot about these uh these distilleries, your guests. And I'm like, that's because I did some homework, you know, and it's that preparation for the interview and thinking about uh the whiskey that I'm gonna drink with them or the story that we're gonna tell, or the story I found, or the listen to the other shows like your guys' show. If you have a person on your show and I'm gonna have them on a year or two later, I'm gonna go back and watch that show and see what was said, see, look at the mannerisms of whenever that guest was asked that question, and that will tell a lot that communicate, that body language, right? Will tell a lot. Was that made them uncomfortable? Because I don't want to make my guests uncomfortable. I want them to sit down, and most of them tell me they're like, Man, you made me feel so comfortable sitting down and just talking to you and stupid shit. It just felt like we were having, like we were talking about porch pores. Uh, it's just sitting down and talking to his friends. And at the end of the day, I want to I want to leave there and be like, man, I love that guy. He's just a conversationalist. Uh, we had a great conversation, and he's gonna do I want to steal their stories? Uh I do, but at the end of the day, I want people to go back there and say, you know what, I bought I'm buying this whiskey because of Big Chief, if that makes sense. And I I think you guys think the same thing. You want people to walk into a liquor store or into a distillery and say, I showed up here because of the noble dram, uh, because of Aaron and Gavin, and I enjoyed their show so much and what they told me about these bottles that I had to come out here and get this. Now that's do they all do that? No, but I know the showers call me and say, Hey, uh, we have we have people coming here all the time and say, Hey, B Chief, told us about you. Uh that makes me feel good. Uh, you know, that makes me feel good that uh small of the stiller uh got bestow some whiskey because of my my stupid little show out there.

Gavin 59:38

Well, and we talked a little bit about it in in the first half, right? Like part of just because I say it's good doesn't mean everybody's gonna like it, right? Part of this is I say it's good because it matches my palate. And so the question is you watch the show for a little bit and you say, I've tried some of the things that Aaron likes, or I've tried some of the things that Gavin likes, and I agree or I disagree, and you begin to understand, like, oh my my palate aligns with theirs in this way, and that then helps act as a guide to going and getting your own whiskey. And to that note, I think telling stories, right? Getting to know the person, I think tells a lot about also kind of what they're tasting. Like some of the notes that I get off of this whiskey off of this glass is from my experiences, and you were talking about like you know, the apple pie, right? The imagery of that. Imagine if she'd made peach pie.

Big Chief 1:00:33

Right. That would be that'd be a totally different whiskey. Southern color.

Gavin 1:00:41

Like that's how I relate to whiskey. I relate to whiskey a lot through movies, through I mean, obviously through memories, movies, music, like the lived experiences. So with that being said, I want to get to a little bit of what's in the glass. Let's get it. Let's do it. So on the nose, big chief. I'd like to know kind of what you're kind of hitting that on the nose.

Big Chief 1:01:08

So the nose on the on this right here was a lot of you get you take an orange and you toast it. Um, you kind of caramelize it a little bit. That's I'm getting that on this nose for some reason. And I kept going back to that and I'm like, what is what am I getting on this nose? So when I'm making a like a cocktail, if I took and drizzled a little bit of brown sugar on an orange and then toasted it and stuck it in a glass and poured some whiskey over it with like some um vanilla, uh, that would be this nose right here. Uh, if that makes sense to get it. I know listeners out there viewers are like, Ty, is this guy getting that? No, no, sure. But that's a little experience. Yeah.

Gavin 1:01:48

Well, I I think I think f in a broader sense, fruit, right, is obviously where you start and then you delve into it a little bit. I'm with you on orange, not orange peel, but orange, right? Like actual side of orange, not the peel side of orange. Um, I also get fruit that like you mentioned peach earlier being grilled. I I'm almost like apricot on this one, like a dehydrated apricot. I like that you get in trail mix. Um on the nose. I think I think some I think fruit just carries throughout this entire thing, right? This is dessertish almost in its fruitiness. Well, on the nose or citrus all over it. I put raisin bread. I think there's a raisininess to it. Um I think that's at polo cordado desk. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. And then oben, if you don't know where obin is, it's on the west side of Scotland, right on the coast. I get a bit of almost a saltiness to it on the nose.

Big Chief 1:02:58

I would say this has got a little bit of uh uh even when you say salty, but salted butter, but it's honey butter. Okay. Uh that's something I'd I would pick up in this nose right here. Uh and I don't know if you ever had a good honey butter, but good lord, on a hot roll. God oh my so we could talk hot rolls. He's gonna talk about drone rolls.

Gavin 1:03:22

Yeah, so so my my wife likes to make butter. It's a thing she does now, right? And then and then you get done, and she just puts flake salt on top of a buttered piece of bread. From way up here. Um, but yeah, that like flaky salt on grilled fruits and butter. Like I absolutely get that. All right, on the palate, where are we saying on the palate?

Big Chief 1:03:48

I think I'm getting a a lot of that malted barley's coming out to me on this. Um but I'm still getting that we're talking about that honey butter and a roll, a nice yeast roll and stuff. I'm getting that um openness to me. Um waves of that fruit, right? And almost like a uh a compost of a chutney of uh fruits chopped up uh that maybe were not stewed, but you grilled them a little bit. Man, I tell you what. Beautiful whiskey.

Gavin 1:04:24

I'm on it. So the only thing I would add to that is I think the fruits have been stewed on a smoker. I think there's a hint of smoke. A little hint of smoke, yeah. And not ashy like we were talking about before, but like actual wispy smoke that shows up. Um I think there's a good chance that that smoke comes from peat, and I don't get a ton of earthy, grassy peat notes. I think the fruit still carries the the banner um through the palate.

Big Chief 1:04:54

So this is not a peated whiskey at all. So many barrels.

Gavin 1:04:59

No, no. So there's a at least a reasonable chance that some of the the whiskey in here has been peed. Yeah. But uh, what I'll say is I think it's not all of it, and I don't think it was heavily peated. Right. That that would be my interpretation. If if there I don't know for sure, but that would that would certainly be our interpretation of the barrel.

Big Chief 1:05:18

And I would say the barreling of it when you do that Our Rosso would take some of that out of there. Uh the longer it sits in the barrel, the more it pulls in those four years.

Gavin 1:05:29

Four years. Four years it finished in Palo Cardano. It was in other barrels before. Correct. So I think I think you're I think the safe assumption is they were probably ex-bourbon barrels, right? Because we talked a little bit about vanilla and honey that's shown up. I think a lot of that is leaching some of that peat out, and then they've moved it over into a very, very fruity sherry barrel. Um and I I think that again Helps to soften some of the peat note, but that there's that wispy smokiness that carries through. Like a peach cobbler that's been cooked on a smoker. What how much does a does bottle run? Uh this this runs around 150 bucks. Okay. Give or take a few tinners. Yeah. But it's about 150 bucks. Um on the palate, on this one, I put charred fruits. So that that tracks. Um I put there's a little cinnamon graham cracker into it. So I think there's a little cinnamon note to it. Like the little bears you can get your kids used to eat. Yep. And maybe it's because we got a you still have a kid who meets up. Yeah. Um, and then the very last thing, I put sun-kissed soda. Like orange, like orange. Orange soda. I think there's a little bit of that note that showed up. So that orange still comes in, a little artificial orange, but high fructose corn cereal.

Big Chief 1:06:58

When you talk about that cinnamon, I get the, but I would get a cinnamon, and you probably know nothing about this because you're age. Uh oh. You're such a young man. Uh, but cinnamon toothpicks from the back. Oh, yeah.

Gavin 1:07:10

Oh, yeah. I'm not as young as I look, let's just say you gotta remember that. You gotta remember every trend that hit the country hit Oklahoma 15 years later. So they still have cinnamon toothpicks in Oklahoma. Um, all right, finish. I mean, the proof shows up to me on the finish. Like this actually tingles and bites the tongue more than the signet did. Um so to me, that's where the proof really shows up. I think flavor stay consistent, right? Into the finish. But there is a there is a bite on the tongue and the tingliness that comes from proof.

Big Chief 1:07:50

I think as it's set in a glass, the longer it's set in there, it seems like the proof has gone down. I would almost think I had some ice in my glass. You know, the first one breathed a little. Yeah, it it breathed, it opened up, and the the proof went down for me, but still it has that long finish. What's the total age on this, did they say? 15 years. 15 total years. So it's 15 total years or 15 plus the four. It should be 15 total. 15 total. So you had 11 plus 4. 11 plus 4.

Gavin 1:08:22

But really, it's only 11 euro whiskey because once you take it out of the first barrel. In sc in Scotland, I think they still count the second maturation in the total. Could you imagine if people in America did that? So a lot of things.

Big Chief 1:08:37

So gotta be different.

Gavin 1:08:40

Yeah, well, yes, when we did the whiskeys of the world and started running through the rules of whiskey in all these different countries, there's so many similarities, but yet so many differences that really everyone exploits the differences and kind of ignores the similarities. Yeah. All right, we gotta put numbers to these. Well, you didn't give gear finish. No, no, it's it's it's proof. Proof is proof, proof to finish. Smoke, smoke, and fruit still carry the the flavor profile, but like a tingliness that shows up on the tongue where that proof, like you know, there's still proof to it. So I said it was crisp. Um, I think there is a bit of like Welchess white grape juice, you know, like the little communion cups you get at church. Um, like what do you just so we're on the same page? Yours is the only church that uses white grape juice. We go to the churches use red grape juice. Um, no, I think there's like a Welchish white grape juice.

Big Chief 1:09:37

My church uses Miller Line.

Gavin 1:09:41

The Millerline church. Uh, yeah, I think knowing where this is in Scotland, I think the finish just reminds me of like uh fish and chips. Like I want to eat or drink this with fish and chips. This this is dessert after a nice food meal sitting on the coast.

Big Chief 1:10:01

Yeah, yeah.

Gavin 1:10:01

I'm with you there.

Big Chief 1:10:02

Yeah, I almost want to slap you for saying that just ruined it for me, right there. It doesn't taste like fish and chips. I would want to, I'm with Aaron on this. I want to drink this with a like a really good dessert, like a uh baked Alaska or a creamer lask.

Gavin 1:10:24

Yeah, to me, to me, I think one of the problems you always have when you talk about whiskies and desserts is that the whiskey is very sweet by itself, but when you pair it with something else that's really sweet, it loses some of its sweetness. I actually think I would lean towards like a like a New York style cheesecake that isn't very sweet on its own, but really rich and creamy. What about a dilemma cheesecake? The fruitness of this carry the carry the day on the sweetness. Yeah. Yeah. My fear is that my fear is that big a laxica would be so sugary that this wouldn't taste sweet anymore.

Big Chief 1:10:57

Yeah, I mean, I I don't know. I could be a good one. I mean, I do it.

Gavin 1:11:01

I do it. I do it. All right, we gotta put a number to it. All right. You want to give us a range?

Big Chief 1:11:09

Oh, I know the rules. The rules have been laid down good. I understand them. Um, this is a tough one right here. Um, I think the price on this was a little less. Uh, so I'd probably go with about a 92 on this 92. I can't think of the last time we had two whiskeys both in the 90s on one episode.

Gavin 1:11:30

Yeah, I am a 94 on this one. This one is excellent. It saddens me that this is a limited release, and I'm gonna put some home run hitters up here. I mean, look at that. I don't got much left. I put this at a 93. Um, I mean, right up there in the 90s. It is sweet, it is salty, it is fruity, it is there's some smokiness to it, there's a little bit of spice. I mean, it is everything I want is scotch. This is it. I'm I'm that would be the average here is 93. I made a mistake and I I sipped my last sip, and I need a splash for the rest of beer. Well, I think at that point, we're just gonna do another round. Okay. Um I need a tad bit more. Gavin's will be a full pour. I just want a splash for the teddy. I'll just do a splash.

Big Chief 1:12:16

I mean, I gotta drive.

Gavin 1:12:17

So you still got a little in your glass, so you're okay. All right. So the way we end all of these is with a toast and a cheers to everyone at home. But I want to do it a little different today. What I want to encourage you is to go out, check out Big Chief and the Whiskey Trip. Comes out every Tuesday morning, right? Every Tuesday morning. You can you can listen to it on the way to work. That's how early this guy gets up and gets after it. Um, excellent storytelling, tons of great uh personalities from around whiskey, both from the podcast world and the production world. Um, it has been an absolute treat to have you here tonight.

Big Chief 1:12:56

Well, I tell you what, I've had a great time. Uh you guys pour some great whiskeys for me. Uh I can't say thank you enough. I just, you know, this is what I got into this for was to meet guys like you and uh to hear your stories, right? To hear your backgrounds, to and appreciate that. And then to understand that you appreciate whiskies from around the world like I do. Uh there's not a lot of people in what we're doing to do that. They stick to a genre easily. Uh they're only an expert at that. Uh while you guys are And I love how you're scoring them and uh your tasting notes are spot on. You're not using one tasting oil that somebody else wrote. You're you're you got your own tasting notes. Sounds like you're doing it from you know, from memory, like you said, from a memory you had, something you ate. And that's what I always talk about in whiskey. So I appreciate you two guys and having me on here and sharing your stories with me.

Gavin 1:13:54

A lot of fun. Yeah, well, big chief, uh, thank you so much. Um, first and foremost, also thank you for your service to this country and everything that you've done. Um cheers and Salon Javal. Salon Javal.

Big Chief 1:14:12

We want to thank you, our noble listener, for joining us. We believe each whiskey has a story, and so do you. So give us your thoughts by leaving a comment. And if you have a whiskey you'd like to see us share, let us know. You don't want to miss a single episode, so subscribe to our YouTube channel. And make sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok to stay up to date on the Noble Dream. And if you find watching us difficult, you can always listen to each episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. As always, be noble and enjoy your journey responsibly.