The Noble Dram | Scotch for Starters: Malt (Season 2 | Ep. 12)

What's the big deral about Single Malt Scotch? What exactly is malt anyway and why is it so important to Scotch whisky?

In this episode of The Noble Dram, Aaron and Gavin break down one of the most fundamental building blocks of Scotch: malted barley. From the malting process and flavor development to the legal rules that define Scotch whisky, we're making one of whisky's most misunderstood topics approachable and fun.

Whether you're a bourbon drinker looking to cross over into Scotch or completely new to the world of whisky, this episode will give you the foundation you need to better understand what's in your glass.

🥃 In This Episode:
✔ We explore all things Malted Barley

Let us know in the comments:
 👉 What was your first Scotch?
 👉 Are you Team Bourbon or Team Scotch?


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One dram at a time.

🥃 We’re pouring:
Bruichladdich 18 Single Malt Scotch Whisky
Bunnahabhain 18 Single Malt Scotch Whisky

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Transcript

Aaron 0:00

Have you ever found yourself in a room full of whiskey experts spouting off terms you didn't know or understand, and you were too embarrassed to even ask a question?

Gavin 0:10

If you're Scotch curious, this one's for you. This is your beginner's guide.

Aaron 0:49

Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of The Noble Dream. We've all been there for something, whether it's whiskey or something else, in which the room seems to be throwing around terms and understand things at a level we don't even begin to understand how to ask questions for. And our job over the next three episodes is we're going to kind of demystify scotch for you. I want to cover a little bit about why some scotch tastes one way, some scotch taste another. What is the process that makes scotch different than bourbon? Uh why you might like some and might not like others. Uh I don't want to speak for Gavin. I like all of them, so it's a little different.

Gavin 1:37

Yeah, I'm I'm a little embarrassed to ask a question, though. Can I ask a question? Sure. Sure. Can I have some whiskey?

Aaron 1:44

I mean, there's no reason to be embarrassed with the question. Okay, all right, all right. So, tonight's episode, what we wanted to focus on is malt. So, we're going to talk about what malt is, why there is malt, what does single malt mean? We're going to walk through some of those, but to that end, we wanted to start with a nice malty whiskey. So, tonight walk. I have for us the Brook Lottie 18 year. This one is a fun and fancy bottle. It's got a glass stopper on the top. It's probably not going to make it. It still is a nice sound. Still is a nice sound. That's another dangerous topper, though. You yeah, it is. It's not so heavy so much, but it is. It is unforgiving. Yes. There's there is not a soft part to that topper at all. Not at all. All right. So, like I said, we're drinking Brook Lottie 18 year.

Gavin 2:45

So also known as Lottie.

Aaron 2:50

Well, so they've got a lot of different stuff that makes reference to the term Lottie as homage to the shortened version of Brook Lottie. This is not to be confused with the classic Lottie. The classic Lottie is their, I hate to use the term in class. Classic. It's their entry level, right? No aid statement, their basic, basic problem. It's no Lottie da da. No, but it is it is a delicious whiskey. It's one I often to the conversation point. Uh it's one of the whiskeys I often use to introduce people to Scotch because it is such a light and um offensive scotch, if you will. Fair. Good point. So uh let's talk a little bit about this bottle, and then I want to delve into kind of what because we're gonna use terms here that we haven't identified and haven't defined yet. So let's start with this. This is an Isla single malt. This is unpeded. We're gonna get to all these, trust me. This one clocks in at 50% ABV or 100 proof. This one carries an MSRP of $180. So this one is on the higher end of scotch price, right? We understand that. Remember, it's a beginner's guide, not drinking beginner's whiskies, right? So just understand where we're coming from. Now, this one aged exclusively on the island of Isla. Whereas we'll talk we'll talk a little bit when we get into barrel aging that not everything stays where the distillery is, right? Um, each release is unique in the fact that they have blended a certain number of different barrels together, and we'll talk a little bit about that process when we get into barreling and bottling. This one, however, is aged predominantly in X bourbon and X wine casks. One of the things I really love about Brooklotti, they're very transparent in the process and what went into that whiskey. So there's actually a code on this bottle. You can go type in on the code on their website, and it will give you a breakdown of all of the various casks that were blended together to create this bottle. So this bottle, or this batch, if you will, is number 23 slash 217. So if you're lucky enough at home to have that exact same one, we're talking about the bottle you have. This was a 67 casks, right? I'm making reference to casks. We'll talk a little bit about this at some point, but that's different than barrel because there's an actual definition of what a barrel is, and that is not always what gets used when we talk about uh aging whiskies. Some of those are bourbon barrels, ex-bourbon barrels. This happens to be a number of second-fill bourbon barrels. This one also happens to have Semillion and Sauvignon Blanc, French wines, first fill, so first time they've had whiskey in them. Also a port cask, first fill, and a Spanish Tempernillo second fill barrel. Sorry, cask, I should say. We're gonna do a whole nother episode on barrels and the barreling process and the aging process and all that. So we'll get into some of what all those little terms mean. Remember, tonight we're focusing on malt. So that being said, as we sniff, sip, and savor, I'm getting much better at this. As we delve into this whiskey and sit and talk, Gavin, I want you to explain to everybody at home the basics of what malt or single malt means and how that really defines scotch being different than bourbon. Because I think that's a good pot spot to start.

Gavin 6:55

So before we really get into malt, I think we need to understand kind of a bit more the rules of scotch. Yeah, compared to bourbon.

Aaron 7:04

Let's let's let's say for the sake of argument, you have a basic understanding of the rules of bourbon. I want to focus attention a little bit on the differences more than the similarities. Right.

Gavin 7:16

So for Scotch, I wouldn't say single mold scotch, but just Scotch in general, must be made in Scotland. That seems like a reasonable rule. Just like bourbon that needs to be made in the United States. Scotch. Scotland. Yeah, that makes sense. Pretty simple, right? Yep. Um Scotch is protected by geography. Bourbon is protected by geography. And recipe.

Aaron 7:52

But there are some rules to recipes on Scotch. And there are some rules, but maybe not as obvious as we want them to be. Right. Okay.

Gavin 8:00

So well, we might dive into a little bit of that a little deeper. Um, but suffice it to say, both have to are geographically um related to their origin, right? Scotch uh um is primarily made of malted barley. Primarily. Single malts are a hundred percent. Correct. That's the malt in single malt. Right. Gotcha. Now, single is really talking about a single distillery.

Aaron 8:38

Right. Not a reference to the number of malts. Right. Right, which is a common confusion. Even for myself, when I was early into the whiskey, uh, the whiskey world, the the assumption was, oh, well, that just has one malt in it. That's what single malt would mean, but it's not. Right. Single malt means malted whiskey from a single distillery. Correct. Okay.

Gavin 9:01

So uh we're not gonna go quite into all the different kinds right now, but there's blended malts and a few others. So there's a few categories there. Tonight we're gonna focus on just single malts. Um, malted barley gives a lot of um like cereal notes and nuttiness and honey uh and some chocolate notes, where bourbon are really we're gonna start seeing more of that vanilla and caramel, ultimately coming from the corn.

Aaron 9:36

Right. Which is the I'll say the predominant grain in all bourbons. So, right off the bat, if we're if we're kind of starting to take notes, major difference, not just where it comes from, but because the grains are inherently different, you end up with different flavors, different levels of sweetness, different aromas and tastes that come out of that glass because of the grain that went in. Correct.

Gavin 10:04

Um scotch is really grain forward uh in its um comparison. Uh bourbon, you could say, is kind of barrel-driven because there's a lot of uh barrel influence to a bourbon. You get that in Scotch, but being a the the way that scotch is barreled compared to a bourbon, scotch uses um basically a second fill to its barrel, right? Yeah, it's it's an ex-bourbon, ex sherry, ex-wine.

Aaron 10:37

We'll obviously get into barreling in the barrel episode, right? Which is coming up. But there is a true fact in the that that bourbon has to be a new barrel, and scotch does not have to be a new barrel. Doesn't mean you can't use new barrels. Exactly. But it doesn't have to be. But what that means is most Scotch distilleries say, well, a new barrel costs more than a used barrel, especially if the used barrel happens to be a bourbon barrel, because they can't reuse that anyways. So they tend to use reused bourbon barrels for the vast majority of that aging process. So that when we're talking about differences in rules, one rule in bourbon is must be new barrel. That rule does not apply in scotch.

Gavin 11:27

Right. Another big difference are age ages. So for scotch, um, we have to be at least three years. Where a bourbon doesn't technically have a minimum age unless it's a straight bourbon where you have to be at least two years. Correct.

Aaron 11:48

There is no rule minimum, but there are labeling requirements that says if you make a statement on a label, then it must be certain things.

Gavin 11:57

Right, right.

Aaron 11:58

Um so we talked a little bit about And and maybe that's before we step away from that, maybe that's a good thing. So when we talk about this being labeled an 18-year whiskey, a similarity in rules, the same way in bourbon, that denotes the youngest whiskey that went into that batch. Does not define the oldest whiskey in that batch. However, I think it's safe to assume that like most manufacturers, they're not going to age stuff for 30 years and then put it in an 18-year-old bottle. If I think I can get more money for it as a 30-year bottle, I'm going to sell it in a 30-year bottle. So it's pretty well understood that that's although the rules say that's the minimum, you don't anticipate a much, much older whiskey in there. Correct. Unless you find yourself with like it just needs a little more time to kind of round out to the flavor that they're shooting for.

Gavin 12:56

Exactly. And we've talked about that on previous episodes where, say, uh our barrelcraft uh spirits episode where we interviewed uh Ned Ned Anderson. We we tasted a bottle decades, right? Which was like a 20 to 30 year uh bottle, meaning that there was uh I think I think 20 was the the minimum age that was on there, but that was may have been some 30-year-old whiskey in that bottle.

Aaron 13:27

This is where you get into the kind of weird loophole on the rules. It says if you're going to make an age statement on the bottle, that's the youngest, but you can certainly hint at or give indication that there is older and what that older is. So you do see that on some, especially more in the bourbon side than you do in the in the Scotch side, that sometimes you'll see it'll actually give you a breakdown of the things that were blended together to create it. That being said, there is a fairly common trait amongst Scotch, especially for blenders, to divulge a lot more information about what goes into the blend than you typically see in American counterparts with American bourbons and American whiskies. Exactly.

Gavin 14:13

We'll we'll dive deeper into the barrels. But essentially, think about it like this used barrels kind of more have more of a spirit influence, where a new barrel is gonna have more of a wood influence.

Aaron 14:27

Yeah, I think I think it's a beautiful way to put it, right? Like what was in the barrel before matters a lot when you reuse a barrel. Whereas if it's a brand new barrel, there's nothing else in there but wood, and you're getting the freshest wood flavor. Like it's the loudest influencer, right? When it when it's a new barrel as opposed to use it as toned itself down, if you will.

Gavin 14:52

You mentioned uh stills, I think a little bit, or how how um how the whiskey is produced. A big difference in scotch is uh the stills have to be um copper pot stills versus say a column still uh for most American whiskeys or bourbons.

Aaron 15:13

Yep, that is the rule for single malt. For single malt scotches. Correct. Not to be confused with the other scotches, which we weren't really kind of delving into tonight. Scotches. I I want to make sure if we're gonna teach and be technical, I want to make sure we're accurate. Uh both. So I do I do want to make one note about the differences in those two stills. The pot still visually looks like an onion bulb, right? If you've ever planted onions or tulips or something like that, a bulb plant, kind of round and bulbous at the bottom, not too dissimilar from the bottom of a Glencaron, that tapers up to a thin neck. Whereas a column still literally looks like a straight tube with ports coming in and out the side. Um, the process by which alcohol boils, condenses, reboils, condenses, and works its way out of those stills is distinctly different between those two. The beauty of a column still is continuous production. We just keep pumping liquid in and out comes at different points on the still.

Gavin 16:17

24 hours a day.

Aaron 16:18

You get alcohol in some areas, and you get water out in other areas, and you get other compounds in different places, and you get to control kind of how much you take out of each area. Um, we live in Houston. Uh, in the petroleum industry, that's a petroleum cracker. That's exactly how they work, right? They pump crude in and then out comes unleaded and diesel and and uh creosote and like all these other compounds all come out of that that um that cracker. Same concept as a column still. The advantage of a column still is obviously speed of production, right? It can run 24-7 and you can really pump out a lot of whiskey for what turns out to be a relatively low cost. But what that means is we can also strip down to almost nothing but pure ethanol, which means a lot of the character of the grains that went in disappears. So in the world of scotch, pot stills are used. It's the only option you have for single malts. So single malts tend to have a lot of grain flavors that show up in the whiskies. Whereas single-grain whiskies or others, right, think vodka production as an example. They're trying really hard to remove all of that other stuff. And so column stills work really, really well for those. So all of that just changes the profile of the liquid that ultimately reaches the barrel, which ultimately changes the flavor of the liquid that leaves the barrel at some point in the future. Yep. Sorry. Look at you, Professor. I haven't even got to the professory part. No, I know. I've got like chemical compounds and stuff written in my head.

Gavin 18:01

Look at this guy. Uh speaking of that, okay. Uh, no added flavorings, but that can be said to both scotch and bourbons. Single mold scotches and bourbons.

Aaron 18:14

Yeah, so by definition, your Jack Daniels honey or your blackberry crown or your cinnamon fireball are not bourbons. They're still whiskies. Yeah. But they don't meet the requirements of bourbon because they've had artificial flavors added. Also, if you're drinking those, step your game up. Sorry. I'm just wow. It dawned on me the kinds of people who probably drink a lot of fireball and really enjoy fireball and honey and apple crown and all that kind of stuff. Are so offended. Might not be the target audience for this yet, but we're encouraging you to listen and learn and find a better sip to put in your glass. We all have to start somewhere, right? It's true. From that point, there's nowhere to go but up. And sorry. I said what I said and I stay behind.

Gavin 19:08

You know what? That's okay. That's okay. Uh, and maybe one of the most important differences between scotches and bourbons. Do you know what I'm gonna say? Uh whether or not you have to wear a plaid while you drink it. Oh, that that actually could be a really fun rule. Like I think I don't currently have any plaid on it. I don't maybe my socks. No, the spelling. We're gonna talk about the spelling. Oh, yeah, the E. The E. So in bourbons or American whiskeys, there is an E in it. E Y at the very end. In Scotch.

Aaron 19:46

Normally, that's not actually a rule in Bourbon, though. It's not a rule. Because if you drag out a bottle of Maker's Mark, Maker's Mark does not have an E. That's that's fair. They're one of the very few. It's predominantly E-based in the Bourbon world. But yeah, it's not a requirement to spell it that way. And for Scotch, we are you'd be damned if you put an E in here in the world. Yeah, we don't put an E in that. No E's.

Gavin 20:11

Uh, can I tell a story? When we first started uh trying to come up with the podcast and something that never actually aired, uh Aaron I for the best. For the best. Aaron I sat in this room.

Aaron 20:23

I saw the footage.

Gavin 20:25

Aaron and I sat in this room and uh did a uh like a spitfire of questions at each other, and we talked about this specific thing. How do you spell Scotch? It was like we both went back and forth, is it E or an E Y?

Aaron 20:41

Yeah, and I think by the time we got to that point in the night, we'd had enough drinks. We kept saying, Do you spell whiskey with a Y or not? And I was like, Yeah, they all have Ys. The question is whether or not you have E. Why not? And we went back and forth having this argument over Ys and E's and realizing we're both idiots. This is this this whole clip is never making the light of day. Yeah. So um that is Maybe when we get to a hundred episodes, we'll drag that out of the vault. We'll just put all of the room long since been deleted by the. Oh gosh. There's probably a few episodes we should probably delete too. I'm not embarrassed by any of them. We'll just let it we'll let it lie. Some of them, the video production is is not top-notch. I get that. I get that. We were learning. We still are. It's all right. All right. Do we want to sorry? Yeah, no. Still still?

Gavin 21:32

No, no, I no, I think that's a good idea.

Aaron 21:33

I'm not trying to rush you, but I felt like that was very all-encompassing.

Gavin 21:36

Yeah, I think that that shines the light on the basics of what scotch is compared to say purpose.

Aaron 21:45

So I'm I'm that kind of guy that likes a little bit of repetition, makes it a little easier for me to remember. I like to say this is what we're gonna learn, then we learn it, and then this is what we did learn. So running real quick back through the rules, starting. Off with the obvious one, where it's made matters, right? Scotch has to come from Scotland. When we make reference to single malt scotches, that means the grain is 100% malted barley. And the single part means it all came from a single distillery. A major difference in the maturation rules, scotch is allowed to reuse barrels that have been used before, whether that be for scotch or other spirits. Yeah. Whereas in bourbon, all has to be brand new. There is an age requirement in Scotch, which is how many years? Three years. Bourbon, there is no minimum age requirement, but there are naming requirements that if you label, it has to be at least that unless you're straight. Well, it still means a minimum. It just means two, right? Um, yeah. So if somebody talks about like, oh no, no, no, no, no, you have to drink straight bourbon. Like they don't mean with no ice. That's not what they mean by straight. Straight bourbon actually has a definition, it means at least two years old. Yep. Um, and then what was your last one? Uh it wasn't tartans. It wasn't tartans. I got caught up in the tartan in my head.

Gavin 23:15

Well, there was a couple more. We we talked about uh copper pot stills versus column stills. Right. Had a had a beginner's guide in that. Um, we talked about flavoring. Um no flavoring added, no additives. Now you can add uh water, and in some cases, caramel coloring can be added.

Aaron 23:38

Now, are you allowed to add caramel coloring in bourbon? Um do you know this? I know not in our notes. We weren't researching. This one, but I don't great question. Let us know. I don't recall there ever being turmoil over somebody using colorings or not in bourbon. And so I know it is a massive debate amongst Scotch drinkers as to whether or not that actually impacts. Um, and although we're we didn't mention it, this whole charcoal or chill-filtered or not chill filtered, right? Um we'll put that into the barreling, right? Kind of that barreling and bottling episode. Um, so I think that's a pretty solid synopsis. So going back, now that we know those things, let's kind of revisit the bottle process. Right. So, first off, this is a single malt scotch. Yes from the Brook Lotti distillery. So we know it all started in Brooklyn. We actually made reference to the fact that these are actually aged their entire life there. 18 years, so we know it meets the minimum. We know the grain profile, we know because it's a single malt, we know what type of still they've used to make it. Um they have shared with us the barrelings, so we now have an understanding of what went what it matured in and ultimately came back together. So I want to know what you think of it. What do I think of it?

Gavin 25:06

Yeah. Uh I think I saw you writing notes. Yeah, I think so. I think it's very um complex. It's not um what I would say is this is not your typical um isla scotch, or that you think isla scotch. When when somebody puts an eyelascotch out there, uh they may not be trying to trick you, uh, but but Isla does have uh a certain terroir.

Aaron 25:39

Yeah, we we didn't talk regions, right? Part of why I didn't want to talk regions yet is the region that everybody knows is Isla because of its predominant flavor profile. We have picked two whiskeys tonight that are both from Isla that buck that trend. Exactly. Part of this, when we get to the peat episode, I'm going to make reference to the fact that these were unpeated whiskies, and what does that mean? And that just because you're in a region doesn't mean it absolutely has to taste like this, right? Because there are guidelines or they're norms, but there's always exceptions to all of those. Exactly.

Gavin 26:19

So keeping that in mind as I'm sniffing, sipping, and savoring, I've already done all of those things. Um I think the nose, there is a syrupy fruitiness to it that I got. I think what came to mind was like a waffle that's got um or or French toast that's got uh fruit on it, like sliced fruit almost. Okay. Uh drizzled with some of that, with some of that delicious syrup.

Aaron 26:55

Yeah, I mean, like I get a bit of I'll say the hotel breakfast, which is like either the the waffle shape, like the state of Texas, if you're staying in a hotel down here, or it's toasted bagel or something like that, that kind of that kind of toasted grain uh note. And then like that bowl of mixed fruit, right? That's yeah, a little bit of cantaloupe, a little bit of maybe there's a peach, maybe there's a little piece of grapefruit or orange wedge in there, like those kinds of things hinted on the nose to me. And ultimately, I think carry throughout the glass. Um, what I will say is I'm actually somewhat surprised at how light the malt flavor is. Just as a benchmark against other brooklottties that we've had. This has been a while since I cracked this bottle open. Um, I expected this to be a little maltier, right? And we're we're gonna talk about what I mean by maltier here in a second, but I there's grain, there's toasted grain to it, right? But not quite that same sugariness of malted grains. And that may just be the age, right? Like that the barrel has absorbed some of that. It's gotten a little wiser in its 18 years.

Gavin 28:18

Older for sure. Wiser out uh on the palate. Um talking through it, I think there's a bit of like a raisin bran going to that grain, and then I think there's a a raisin note that came through, uh, as well as like a maybe like a grilled um like grilled fruits. I think there's a grilled fruit note, not a sm not so much smoky, uh, but charred.

Aaron 28:54

Yeah, I think I I think I'm getting a little more of an oak flavor, a toasted kind of oak. But I'll be honest, I can't you often you often hear people when they talk about the flavors of malt, like it kind of reminds them of a little bit of oatmeal or granola, like that kind of stuff. And I get more of that on the palate than I got on the nose. Um not quite as sweet as the the tear open packet of Quaker brown sugar oatmeal. It's not that sweet. It's a little more like if you took the unflavored oatmeal, like you got the variety pack and it's got the non-sweetened whatever, and you're like, I gotta put something on here. And maybe you drizzle a little honey on top of that oatmeal, trying to give it a little bit of sweetness, but it's still really more oat flavor than it is, than it is sweet. I think that's kind of where my head goes uh on the palate. Now, where I'll say is I think where your fruits show you were saying on the palate, I distinctly get fruits again on the finish for sure. We're always we're always off by just a little bit. Uh maybe what we need to do is have a debate over where the palate finishes. Sorry, where the palate ends and the finish begins, right? Like maybe that is part of a debate on where that falls.

Gavin 30:19

Like the tongue anatomy and chemistry of like where everything hits.

Aaron 30:24

Get an ear, nose, and throat doctor in here to talk about all this. Maybe that'd be fun. Get that ENT in here. I gotta find an ENT. Um just stop by a bunch of doctors. I was like, hey, you want to be on a podcast with us? You want to go through some whiskey? Yeah, I'm assuming the answer is yes to that. That's easy.

Gavin 30:41

Always and forever. Um, on the finish, um, I think it it's it lingers a bit. I think it lingers, and then all of a cut all of a sudden it cuts and it's drier, and then it pulls me in and I want another sip. Like it makes me want more.

Aaron 31:00

Yeah, that drying effect for sure. Um I think I've got I've got a bit of the like early finish, has got some of those fruits. Um I I like where you said grilled fruits, right? Um, if you've ever had like a grilled peach, right? Like it has that kind of burnt sugar, kind of like it has lost some of its sweetness, but it has replaced it with char. Like I get some of that. Um, I think when that drying moment happens, all of a sudden it feels much more floral and less fruity for me. Um yeah, like it's like sometimes when we say floral, we mean plants, right? They're not necessarily flowers, but not the rose that's on your table. But this one, when I say floral, I mean flowers, right? Like it has that kind of floral It's a fruity bouquet. It's it's a field of wildflowers, right? Like on a spring day when you walk by and like, oh, that smells nice. Like that, that's what I get on the finish of that. Yeah. Well, I think I gotta write a number down.

Gavin 32:10

Yeah. Um, me too.

Aaron 32:13

Hmm. This one's a tough one for me. Sometimes I forget to write your score down, and then I have to go back and watch everything and try to figure out what your score was. So um I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be better about it this time. Gavin gives it a an 84. 84. All right. Why 84?

Gavin 32:34

It could have been 85. Yeah, I mean, it was so close. We're splitting hairs. Um 84. Uh, it is it is a bottle that I would love to have on the shelf. It it intrigues me and makes me want more. But the thing that I think docks it a little bit for me is uh the sweetness. Like I don't get much of the sweetness on the palette or the finish. There's there's just something like I want a little bit, I just want a little bit more. Like the proof point, I think, is great. I think being or ABV, being 50% ABV, I like that. I like that proof point. The problem is I just want a little sweetness to it.

Aaron 33:25

Just a little bit more. I mean, I I think especially when we think of light whiskeys, lighter single malts, we tend to think floral, fruity, quite often finished in dessert wines, which tend to be a bit sugary. I and this is missing a little bit of that. I understand that, but I'll be honest, I I think I kind of like it because it doesn't have that. Um my fear is that if you introduced a little bit too much sweetness in this, like it's well, if I wanted sweet whiskey, I got other sweet whiskies I could go drink, right? Um, so I I'm setting it an 86. I like this one a lot. I think this one's a great one. I think I'd actually been just a smidge higher. The problem with this one, being an 18-year-old, right, that carries a price tag at $180 a bottle, MSRP, this is this is not a cheap drink, right? Um I will say I think it's worth $180. But if if somebody was coming over and saying, hey, I've never really tried anything from Brooklottie, like I'm I'm probably not pulling this one out. This one needs to be a little bit more held back just because of it, just because of its price tag. Um and I know one of the one of the challenges we always have is like, do you do you give a score without price or do you give a score with price? And ultimately the answer is the bottle may be fabulous, but if it's too expensive, it doesn't really matter, right? Um my kids used to talk about getting a great deal on a car. I was like, I still don't want to pay that much more for a car, right? Like it could be the Ferrari may be half price, but I still not paying that much more money for an automobile. So I I think this you start to flirt with that line when you get to a certain point, you're like, it's good, it's just not worth that money. And if the only way to get it is to spend that money, I guess I'm not gonna have it. But it's got a cool jacket. It does, it does. I so Brook Lottie, like a lot of Scots distilleries, have really jumped into this. How can we be as environmentally friendly? How can we reduce our packaging, simplify things, um, reducing the amount of cork that is used to use synthetics? Like that that seems to be a big wave. We talked the other day about a distillery that they literally had dismantled and tore the distillery down to build a new one that would be net neutral in its energy usage and stuff. So I the premise here is this is the simplest way to create packaging that protects the whiskey, both the bottle from breakage and the whiskey inside from UV light, that is far more cost-effective, far more recyclable, far more environmentally friendly than what we might see in a traditional canister with metal lids and cardboard tubes and all that kind of stuff. So uh it it's a it's a fun twist for sure. Absolutely. All right. Well for number two. Well, let's take a break. 86 for me, 84 for Gim. And uh let's take a break real quick.

Gavin 36:34

We'll take a break.

Aaron 36:38

What if your next four actually meant something? Not just a good night, but doing real good. This is pouring forward, where whiskey meets purpose.

Gavin 36:54

Where we spotlight real people and real stories and show up when it really counts. No middleman, no fluff, just impacts.

Aaron 37:07

Here at the Noble Dram, we believe that whiskey is more than just what's in the glass.

Gavin 37:12

It's about the people that you share it with. And to that is, head over to thenobledram.com and find out how you can pour it forward. Enjoy a dream and be noble. Thanks everyone for hanging in there. Uh, you know what time it is?

Aaron 37:39

I I I hope whatever I hope whatever you were doing for that break wasn't so difficult for you. You felt like you had to hang in there. Uh like the like the little kitty cat on the motivational poster they used to have in the office years ago. Here to you. You had posters. You don't remember like the motivational posters. No, mine had like like success, and I had like the guy hanging on to the kids. Mine had like Michael Jordan. And there was not a kitty cat. There was the one that was like the little cat like hanging on to dear life over the edge of something, and it's like it's just hanging there, is what it said. You're gonna get pita all over us. I I didn't create the poster. You could be mad at me for a multitude of things.

Gavin 38:19

That one, not my fault. Not your fault. All right. You don't even have a glass in here. I know. Well, I finished that one. All right. Well it's time for a new one. Time for a new one. This is the Bunahaven. I just love the way that rolls off the tongue. So, as my wife would call it, Buna Haven.

Aaron 38:41

Oh, look at that. That's a very reasonable bore, especially for you. I'm learning. Put that over here so everybody can see it. Over here? No, no, right. Up here? No, no, no. No, right here. All right.

Gavin 38:53

Can't take him anywhere. So this is Bunahaven. You almost gotta say it like throaty. Okay, put it back there. I mean, most most Gaelic is kind of an aggressive language. Bunahaven. Bunahaven. 18. From the Isle of Isla. This is again unpeated. Single molt scotch. This one, wow. Yep, yep, yep, yep, wow. Distinctly different. No, so different. So different. Uh, we're clocking in at 46.3 ABV. To do the math, we're 92.6 proof.

Aaron 39:32

92. It's 46.3. Okay. Yes. Gotcha. I'm checking your math in my head over here. You're like, well, cover carry.

Gavin 39:40

Okay, two seven. Okay, gotcha. Uh, we're matured in X sherry casks. Non-chill filtered in natural color. That, I mean, that's a dark, dark single ball.

Aaron 39:54

As our good friend Big Chief would call it. Dirty bourbon. Dirty bourbon. I so this though, you said is matured in sherry. Yeah.

unknown 40:03

Okay.

Aaron 40:04

All right. So maybe this isn't maybe there's nothing dirty bourbon about this at all. Dirty bourbon. All right. So just um I've always, I've always sorry, I've always loved Boonhabin because they're like, we don't want light touching our whiskey at all. And so they have the absolute darkest glass. It is one of the downsides of owning a bottle of Boon Hobbin is you have no idea how much whiskey you have left in the bottle.

Gavin 40:28

Maybe that's something that we'll explore. Is we've talked about it. We've talked about, you know, chasing those gorgeous bottles and all of those things. And we've we've talked about some dark bottles in the past, but it would be really good to kind of talk a bit about the strategy about it. Yeah, taco about it. Talk about it. Taco, taco about it. Uh the strategy behind a dark bottle compared to a clear bottle or um a fluted bottle or you know, all those kind of things. Like is it all gimmick? Is it are there reasons behind it?

Aaron 41:07

Yeah. I I mean we don't do you want to delve into it now or you so there's there's obviously marketing involved, right? Part of part of making a bottle pretty is it catches the eye and makes you want to buy it off the shelf, right? I understand that. Um like most alcoholic beverages, there's a reason beer bottles used to be green or brown, right, as opposed to clear, because ultimately UV breaks down aromatic flavor and flavor compounds as well as alcohol. So anything I can do to keep light off of my whiskey, the better off we're going to be. So, what I'll say, to that end, the bourbon world seems to proudly display how dark their whiskeys are, right? So if you look over our shoulders, you'll notice almost every bourbon bottle does not have a canister. Go to the stores, walk out down the aisles, they're all out showing off the color of their whiskey. Inversely, you'll look at the row behind them, which is where the single malts live in this room. They're almost all in canisters. Not all, but most, right? Where their argument is they're trying to protect that whiskey from ultraviolet. Now, it might be that some of the flavor compounds you get in bourbon are much bigger, bolder flavors. So a little bit of degradation over time doesn't impact them as much. Whereas the argument would then be on the opposite side. Some of the flavor compounds in Scotch are fairly light, delicate flavors. Not necessarily delicate in flavor, but those compounds break down easily. And those they're trying really hard to protect. It's a debate that is ongoing and will be ongoing for years, right? And and how is whiskey stored, airspace in the bottle, light infiltration. Um they'll be debated until we debate them right here on this table. But even then, I don't think. And then we will solve the world's problems right here. You've got to drink a lot of whiskey to solve all the world's problems. I no, even in this room, my wife, my wife often comes in and says, Man, I wish you would open up the the the blinds in here and and let a little bit of light in, because this this room is relatively dark and dreary most days. And I was like, no, that's exactly how I want it. I want my whiskey in here to be as delicious when I when I put it in the glass as it was when they put it in the bottle. So I don't know as if there's any truth to it, but it's certainly the the old wives' tale, I believe. There's a little bit of magic. Yeah. Make belief. I get you. I get it. All right. You got any fun nuggets of knowledge about the Bunahaven distillery?

Gavin 43:54

The distillery was founded in eighteen eighty one and three years later. Began production in 1883. It's Gaelic. So Bunahaven is Gaelic for the mouth of the river. Really? Yes. I actually did not know that until we started doing this episode research. I know some Gaelic from living there. Living in Scotland, I should say. Not living in Bunahaven. That would be sweet. That would be pretty sweet.

Aaron 44:28

A beautiful little place. It's funny to me that the island of Isla is so small and there are so many distilleries. I mean, the grand scheme of things, a lot of distilleries and a very small population on a very small chunk of land, and how far apart they seem to be. Like they have spaced them out as evenly as possible around the entire island trying to get away from each other. Uh yeah, you Boonhaven's one of those places like you don't you're not gonna stumble into it. It is off the main road. You've got to want to get there to find it. It's some of my favorite places.

Gavin 45:05

Especially in Scotland. Off the beaten path. You gotta most of Scotland is off the beaten path, which is kind of the front of Scotland, right? Yeah. It's a journey or an adventure to get to the destination. It's not just get in the car and or walk. I mean, it is there's there's a there's a little effort to get there, which I absolutely love. All right, so you said 18 1881 is when it was founded in 1883, it was the where they began production.

Aaron 45:35

Yeah, long long before me. That's the key. I just wanted to point out that long, just a few years.

Gavin 45:41

In this grouping, I'm not the oldest. That's fair. That's fair. I don't know. This oak from this bottle topper might be the oldest. Who knows?

Aaron 45:53

Yeah, that in fairness, the none of the whiskey in here is from 1883. So that is very true. Probably the wood in the barrel, the glass topper is the oldest thing here. All right. That's my uh just really quick, just run of the mill. So um, I think this is a fun thing because um we talked a little bit about Gaelic. Uh-huh. I I I want to take a side junt for just a second before we delve into malt. One of the things that always makes you nervous when you sit down and go to order something is that I'm going to mispronounce it, right? Um, as somebody who doesn't know most other languages. No kidding.

Gavin 46:32

Um, you don't even know half English.

Aaron 46:34

I was gonna say, I have a very loose grasp on English, let alone other languages. I like it it can be a bit daunting to go in and try to order something in another language. And to be honest, a lot of Scotch bottles look like they're written in another language, right? Because to the joke you made about how your wife pronounces it, if you were to look at the label, it looks like Bunahabain, right? It's exactly how you would phonetically pronounce it, but that is not how it is pronounced Gaelically. If you were to read the label on the first bottle, it would look like Brooklodic. Right? Ins ICH, but that is also not how it is pronounced in Gaelic. So our little nugget of tidbit to help you sound more like a real whiskey expert, when you read anything from Scotland with a MH or a B-H, that is a V sound. So when we say cheers at the end of every episode, we say cheers in Salanja VA, the VA in that word is spelled M-H A T H. The T H doesn't sound like th, and the M H doesn't sound like m ha.

Gavin 47:57

Right?

Aaron 47:58

You didn't know you were getting a and it also too to brooklotic. Um CH is always pronounced as a K. And so when we talk about uh any of our other distilleries and we start talking about the the way to pronounce words, like you'll notice that shows up repeatedly. Um when we talk about Glendronic, right? It's not Glindronic. Right, so you kind of see some of that. So that will help you feel less like a fool when you order something and then the waiter goes, I'm sorry, you mean broglottic? Yes. What I will say is unless you're I like the way you say it, but without all that damn attitude.

Gavin 48:42

Unless you're in Scotland, no one else is gonna pronounce it right either.

Aaron 48:47

I yeah, but the fear is you're gonna run into the guy who knows how to pronounce it and then you look silly.

Gavin 48:53

And then you say pish posh on that guy. Yep.

Aaron 48:57

He all of a sudden throws back his throws back his coat and it's tartan on the inside and he corrects you on your pronunciation.

Gavin 49:04

Um what I would say uh to that is um if you ever run into somebody that is totally pretentious when it comes to how to pronounce something uh when it comes to whiskey, just let it go. Let them have their garage. Let them have their moment, be the kind of person they're gonna be. You do you, you go in there, you order that scotch, you order that whiskey. Because in reality, um for me, uh we we've we've talked about it in previous episodes. This is where I started. I started Scotch and then ventured into bourbon, and I was intimidated by that.

Aaron 49:45

Yeah, I mean, obviously, familiarity makes you feel comfortable. Um I will also say took a trip to Scotland, and what I found out is three-quarters of the places I was mispronouncing, right? And then I began to pronounce them like our tour guide and like the distillery manager would give us an example, and then you'd bump into somebody later and they'd be they'd pronounce it completely different than those the other people did. So I there's always a bit of um just like anywhere in the US, right? Like Southern dialect sounds different than somebody from Minnesota, than somebody from the Midwest or California, all right, or New York.

Gavin 50:30

Just take New York, you know. Just take a trip to Oklahoma, where most of the towns there are Native American.

Aaron 50:38

Yeah. So I I grew up in north central Kansas, and north central Kansas and central Nebraska is kind of that area that is claimed to have no accent. That's that spot that is the sweet spot. It's actually a fairly common thing for like people who are studying to be newscasters and stuff to go live in Nebraska to learn how to speak without an accent. So that way then everybody can understand. But I'll be honest, there's still words I like I say them, and everybody's like, that's weird to hear you say that. Like I grew up in an area of the country that says Warsh. Oh, yeah. Like there's an R in there, like there's no R. Um, so yeah, like we we all have weird the versus the No, no, it is the um the if it the most important is it's the only one, right? The it's the Noble Dram. If you're saying of all the noble Drams, this is the important one. How do you how do you spell the versus the that they're spelled the same? But I I'll point out on on on the logo, when you look at it, the is a different font. It is secondary to noble dram. That's why I say the noble dream.

Gavin 51:48

All right.

Aaron 51:49

I don't I'm not saying I'm right, I just say I have a reason. That's all I say. That's all I'm saying. All right. Hey, I got a question. Is it about malt?

Gavin 51:59

Yeah, can you tell us some? This is gonna work well because that's what I looked at today. We've talked a bit about scotch and its comparison to bourbon and some of the rules behind it, but and we've talked about you know the term malt or single malt. Can you give us a little bit of information on what that means?

Aaron 52:18

Yeah, so let's start with the fact that malting is a process you do to grains. Before we talk about how you do that, I think it is important to understand why we do that. So, malting in general is a process that acts process that actually has been documented to like over 6,000 years. We've been doing malting for a long time. You're old. No, not me personally. When I say we, I mean collectively humanity, not you and I. Okay. Um, so why we why we malt grains is malting converts chemical compounds that are in the grain into a different form that is more usable for what we want. That's a very broad 30,000-foot look at it. So kind of manipulating. Correct. We're we're chemically manipulating what's going on inside that seed. So the malting process activates three different types of enzymes. Well, four because one of them has two different styles. There are two different amylase that are activated. There is glucanase and there are protases. I apologize, I'm not a chemist. I'll be honest, I barely passed chemistry on the butt the main thing that happens, the the cell within the in the grain, the cell structure needs to be broken down. And why? Because what we want to do is take the starches that are in the grain and convert them into sugars. And you say, well, why do I care about sugars? Is it just make it sweet? No, sugars get eaten by the yeast, which becomes alcohol. That's ultimately our goal in this. So the first is it will convert starches into maltose, maltose, right? And extrins, which are two water-soluble sugars. So it means I can then add water to it and actually dissolve those sugars and get them out of the grain. As opposed to if you've ever overcooked mashed potatoes and you go to scoop the potatoes out and they just literally disintegrate, you have broken the starches down, but they're still starches. So if you leave it in there, it will turn back into a sludge and slurry at the bottom because the starches are not water soluble. You cook them in water to break them down to some extent and make them softer, but they don't ever dissolve, or sugars do. Also, malting breaks down amino acids, sorry, breaks down proteins in the grains into amino acids. Those amino acids also, in contact with yeast, become all of the other various aromatic compounds, phenols, ethanols, all of that kind of stuff comes from the various amino acids that are in there that don't tend to happen with proteins. So it's a double whammy for us. We get more sugar, which means more alcohol, and we get amino acids, which are flavor compounds. And all of this is because the malting process breaks down the cell wall, such that the stuff that the outside of the cell is kind of protecting on the inside are now exposed and we can get to it. All of this in mind, those enzymes are created in the malting process. Still, some of that breakdown occurs after we have ground the grains into uh grist, right? This is the technical term, and then we mixed it with water to create wort. The same concept applies to other grains. However, some grains have lots of sugar to begin with, right? We talked about bourbon. Right? If you've ever drank a coke that is sweetened with high fructose corn syrup, fructose corn, that's the sugars in corn, right? So that being said, I don't need, I don't need to malt my corn to get the same effect. However, when I mix in rye or I mix in barley or I mix in oats or I mix other stuff in, I need some of those enzymes. The problem is those grains don't have the enzymes that get activated by malting. So ultimately, what you'll see is when we go back and look at bourbons, they always have just a little bit of malted barley. And the reason is by malting barley, I've created that enzyme. So by mixing those enzymes into my batch, I now get more sugars and I get more aromas and I get all of that stuff. And so we've often made jokes about the content of malted barley within a grain profile. Part of the reason I like high malted barley is that means a lot more enzymes, which means a lot more of those flavor compounds, which in Aaron's opinion means there is more flavors available for the distiller to then work their way into a barrel and ultimately into a glass.

Gavin 57:56

Gavin's definition is more delicious.

Aaron 57:59

Yes, no, it well, and obviously 100% malted barley does have a limitation in the fact that some of the flavors that you get from rye or wheat or corn, you don't get with barley. And so there's that trade-off. And so that's all part of this kind of how you create your recipe to create a flavor in the distillate that you want. Right. So that's that's why we malt. So I think the obvious next question is but how do you malt? And so that process teach me how to malt. That like teach me how to dig. I was just thinking that, and I was like, but I don't want to be the guy who tries to sing that on the air. So the first step in malting is we need to make the grain think that it's planted in the ground and it wants to grow. Because the malting process actually happens on its own if we plant the seed in the ground. So the first thing we need to do is add moisture. So they refer to that as steeping. So we put all the grain in a hopper and then they fill that hopper with warm water and then let it set for two to three days, right? Two things are happening. One, the grain is soaking up water, so it's raising its moisture content, and that warm humid environment makes it think, oh, I'm stuck in the ground, and it is now springtime. It is time to begin to grow. And so germination starts, right? The beginning budding of a plant. Not the leaf at the top, but the roots at the bottom of the seed, right?

Gavin 59:46

So in that process, instead of being in the ground, where's that process start? Like location-wise.

Aaron 59:53

So after we've steeped, typically in some sort of vertical silo hopper, and it's gone for a couple days, and the all that water has been absorbed, they then dump it out and across the floor. Like on a like on the floor. Yeah, they they actually call it the malting floor. Um, now, back in the day, almost every distillery had a malting floor, probably had a building with multiple floors of malting floor, right? Because this takes this process takes some time and takes several days, and so we need to be able to be running multiple batches. Now, most distilleries purchase malted barley from a malting company, and they use rather than a floor where they just spread the grain out evenly, they tend to use rolling hoppers, right? Think rotisserie cooker, but for grains, right? So I put the grains in. The question is, why do I need to do that? And the answer is as I set that grain down, it begins to grow out roots, right? That's what it first thing it does when any seed grows, it puts roots out. Well, if I leave it alone, it thinks it's in the ground. It's going to grab onto everything around it to hold itself in place. Scrubby little hands. Yeah. And so what you end up with is a big rug of woven root barley stuck together. So on a malting floor, you have to go turn that malt, right? Total side note, I didn't have this in my notes, but I think it's a fun story. So they they used to be guys. They were, they were the malters. They would go in with essentially what looks like a big pizza paddle. Like a snow shovel. Yeah, like a snow shovel or a pizza paddle, right? And we go in and just turn the grain over just to keep it bounced around so it didn't have a chance to grab onto anything else, right? Then you know, like shaking the popcorn in the old pot when you were a kid. Um, so that that tool was referred to as a monkey. Why? I don't know. But there was a degenerative disease that tended to impact these guys, where the cartilage in their shoulders would break down over time from just literally spending eight hours a day scooping and turning, scooping and turning. Like when I say continuously, like they would literally get all the way to one end of the room and then go back and start at the other end of the room and keep going. And they did that all day, every day. And so that disorder of your cartilage wearing out in your shoulder was referred to as monkey shoulder, which most of us now know as a fairly famous blended malt whiskey that has the name of the monkey shoulder, which actually has monkeys on the bottle. Now it has nothing to do with the animal. It is in reference to the disorder of the malting guys would get from turning malt all day.

Gavin 1:02:46

I think this is a bit of monkey business. Yeah, it's craziness.

Aaron 1:02:50

But now they use rolling hoppers, right? So the grains just keep kind of tumbling on themselves. That process typically takes about four to five days. And when it's done, they refer to that as green malt. Because it's green because it's growing, right? Not green because there's leaves yet. The idea is to stop this before the leaves come. Why? Because the process of growing leaves consumes sugars, which I just worked really hard to get into the grain, and I don't want to lose it to the growth process. So they're they're literally teasing it. Yep. Like, yeah, we're just making it and just as soon as, like, I think it's about ready to sprout green, it's time to stop that. Well, how do you stop it? You dry it, right? It needs that high moisture content to get where it is. So that malt on the floor might have a moisture content of like 40 or 50 percent moisture. I now want to drive that down to like 5% moisture. Well, like anybody else, if you wanted to dry something that is wet, you put it in a hot, warm environment. Like a like a dryer. Like a dryer, or put it in your oven and you toast seeds, right? That concept is exactly what happens here. They refer to it as drying or kilning. If you were in a multi-floored building and you've spread all this grain out on one of your floors, you push it all over into a hopper that is a chute that runs down, and the kiln is in the basement. And you load this hopper back up with now what is wet grain, and you start running hot air up through it to dry that grain out. That process takes a couple days. And when they're done, they have kind of dried shrivel up grain that then they can run through a mill and crush down into grist and ultimately add to water and then head on into the fermentation process, um, which we'll cover in another time. We started this conversation with these being Ila whiskies and these being a little different than normal. And I know we're hinting at where we're going with Pete. But who's Pete? I have Pete's the guy that runs the kiln. Oh, gotcha. The monkey shoulder guy. Yeah. So you have two options, really, when it comes to how do I heat the grain. If I live in an area that has a natural gas service, now we dry it over natural gas, which imparts almost no flavor, very neutral, just dry heat.

Gavin 1:05:21

Very natural.

Aaron 1:05:23

However, some places, either one, don't have natural gas to them, let's say you're an island off the coast of Scotland, or two, the tradition was we didn't have uh some we didn't have natural gas. At some point they used to use wood, although that's pretty uncommon now. But in areas where you didn't even have trees, i.e. Isla, it's a it's a big grassy rock. The whole island is a big grassy rock. So they use peat moss, right, that they've dug out of the ground, allowed to dry, and then burn, which has a ton. Of smoky, wet, grassy, earthy kind of flavors that stick to the barley. Think brisket in your smoker, right? Same concept. So if I use a smoky heat source to dry my barley, I end up with a smoky whiskey. If I use a non-smoky propane or natural gas, I end up with a non-smoky, unpeated whiskey.

Gavin 1:06:30

Who would have thought?

Aaron 1:06:31

Yeah. Who'd have thought the barbecue girl on your back patio could teach you a little bit about whiskey? And I'll be honest, I did because I have never stood next to that smoker out back without a glass of whiskey. Same. Yeah. So I it it makes a ton of sense to me. All right. So that is the why and how of malt, or more specifically, malted barley.

Gavin 1:06:57

Man, can we just like no stop, stop, stop, stop. Good job. Stop. Good job. That's great. But as great as that is, I would like to know. I mean, do you need a do you need a second? Do you need a breath?

Aaron 1:07:10

No, no, no, no. All right. The fact that I just got to have a little bit of nip of that uh Boonhaven really brought me back. All right. So you want to talk about whiskey, though. Yeah, I want to talk about what you got on the nose of this.

Gavin 1:07:23

Yeah. Lovely lady. Yeah.

Aaron 1:07:24

So this, you said sherry, right? In the aging. This has distinctly more on the range of Fino and Olaroso sherry, which are drier sherries, not as sweet, not as sugary as you get into like cream sherries and Pedro Jimena sherry. I get a lot of that kind of woody sherry aroma on the nose. Um I've always described dry sherries as like if you made wine but left all of the stems and leaves on the grapes when they came through and made the wine, right? Because it like if you've ever had Greek food and they have like the maldays, right? Like Greek grape leaves that are wrapped around like that kind of sharp green tartness that comes from grape leaves. Like I get a bit of that on those dry sherry-age scotches. And I get that on this nose.

Gavin 1:08:26

That's so I agree with you on that. There's a couple things that I got. Add to it. Um, I think on the nose, I got a bit of like collared greens on the nose on this. There's a green vegetative kind of hint on the nose.

Aaron 1:08:43

I won't say it's to me it wasn't the prominent, but I it's it's there.

Gavin 1:08:47

And then I thought that there was a bit of like uh honey nut Cheerios. Like I think that cereal grain does show up, and I get that.

Aaron 1:08:56

Yeah, along with all some grapefruits. I like the reference to honey nut Cheerios. Yeah, right. Like there is a sweetness that shows up, not overly sweet. I think honey nut cheerios probably paints a little sweeter picture than it is, but yeah, but I get that.

Gavin 1:09:11

Maybe it's the honey nut cheerios, maybe it's just normal cheerios.

Aaron 1:09:14

No, I think it's like there's a little bit in there. Yeah. I had a I had a buddy um who was a sunflower seed guy, loved sunflower seeds, and then the doc's like, dude, you gotta cut back on your sodium. And so he began doing like half unsalted, half salted, and we mix them together. It's kind of like the Coke and Diet Coke, like I'm kind of sweet and sweet tea. Trying to trying to cut it.

Gavin 1:09:35

Dilute it.

Aaron 1:09:36

The notion that you're saying, like this is this is like a one-third honey nutterios, two-thirds regular Cheerios. Think about that. All right. Uh I also got dried fruits on this one. For me, I it's you said dried fruits. Like there is a raisininess to it, especially when you step into the palate to me. Yep. But it's not sweet like a raisin, it's the vegetative kind of raisin skin, right? Grape skin that aren't sweet like the filling on the inside. I get more of that skin kind of flavor. Um, yeah, I wrote dry raisin, but I mean I meant like not sweet raisin dry. Not like the raisins are dried, right?

Gavin 1:10:26

Uh is that what you got on the palette? Mm-hmm. Okay. On the palette, I thought there was a bit more like we talked that green leaf. There's a bit of like a sea salty, um, almost seaweedy kind of uh palette on this one for me.

Aaron 1:10:47

It's amazing to me how often you describe in one phase right there. Written down on another.

Gavin 1:10:53

It's uncanny. Um, and then I I there's a there's a spice to it, like a baking spice, nutmeg, maybe. Um, I couldn't put my finger on it. But yeah, I I might actually have said clove. Maybe clove.

Aaron 1:11:08

Over nutmeg. Um kind of reminds me of the um like we make a brine for poultry and stuff when we're cooking, and we often use clove. And um, I don't typically use a lot of nutmegging, but there's something in here that reminds me of the brine. That's why I'm thinking so I like I get I had written down woody and seaweed and salt air on the finish because I got it's not that the whiskey tastes salty, but it makes me think I'm sitting on the patio near a I was gonna say beach, but I don't think beach is right. Like it this feels like it should be a rocky coast, right? Not a beach. Um, yeah, absolutely. God, I'm gonna need a splashboard. Sorry. Man, no, no, no. I didn't know you said that was the perfect pour. No, no, no, I said it wasn't. I said it wasn't a Gavin size pour. Oh, it was just a smidge short, and I mean, I think it's a testament to how good it is. And I know we're gonna toast here in a second, so I need just a little bit more. Yeah, I'm holding back a little bit.

Gavin 1:12:17

Uh on the finish for me, uh I think there's a bit of I I put saltiness. Uh the finish is not quite as long as I think the broquati was. Um, it's more of a medium finish for me. And then I put there's a drying fruit. I think I'm gonna disagree with you on that. You gotta disagree with me.

Aaron 1:12:43

Yeah, so I because I want to go to Bow's? I throw hands on this. I as I finished the glass and then realized I needed another pour, and I've I have not had a sip since then, right? As I kind of sit here, like I still get it. Um where I will say that that I find most intriguing is that the Brook Lottie felt like there was a real big paradigm shift partway through the finish. I don't think I get that shift in the Bune Haven. I think that the finish runs that chord just kind of rings in time, as opposed to kind of being a a little bit more of a melody that happens on the Brook Lottie. But no, I I I'm not suggesting that the Brook Lotti is short compared to the Bunehaven. But what I will say is I'm not positive it's the other way around either. I think they're pretty similar in overall length.

Gavin 1:13:40

Well, agree to disagree. Uh but what I'm more what I'm more curious about settled by the Germans.

Aaron 1:13:49

It's a reference I'm not finishing. Um I would love nothing more than you to tell me. You want me to tell you that that's an 87? Whatever it is. Like I am. You are telling me that's an 87. That is a that is a delicious whiskey. Um, the reason why I think this one comes in just a click or two higher than the Brooklottic was this has that sherry sweetness that you mentioned that Brooklotti was missing. But instead of instead of hinting at it and wanting just a little more, I mean, this really lives in it. These are distinctly different whiskies, right? Um, this is not just a sweeter version of Broccolotti. This this has got sherry happening throughout. This is not quite the Pedro Jimenez dessertish sugar-rich sherry bomb, but this absolutely has a lot of that character from a dry sherry while still marrying beautifully with the malts of the whiskey. I that that that's excellent. That's excellent.

Gavin 1:15:05

So for me, I put this one out at 81. Oh, that's a travesty. That is a ridiculous score. And the reason why, I think there's a there's a bit of the the collar green note that I got on this that I wasn't the biggest fan of. As much as I got it, it took me in a different direction. And a lot of the times when I get a bottle that takes me in a different direction than what I'm expecting, I actually really embrace it and I really like that. Uh, and what I would say is uh if you are a bourbon drinker to be toeing into scotch, um embrace that. But for me, this one, I thought that the Brooklottti was more my will house of what I would want. And the proof point I think is more what I like versus the lighter.

Aaron 1:16:12

Okay, so I know I don't want to overrun the scores, right? Let's repeat them so everybody knows. 81 for you, 87 for me. My question would be if you are new to Scotch, right? This is the beginner's episode. If you're new to Scotch, which one do you think, if you like other whiskies, but you're not sure about scotch, which one do you think is the one that kind of lines up with what people can dip their toes into? I think I'm not positive either of these bottles are priced at a point where like, yeah, give it a flyer and try a scotch. Fair point.

Gavin 1:16:50

But yeah, I mean that's a good point when it comes to price. I think on taste alone, I would say more the Brook Lottie. And the reason why is I think if you're a bourbon drinker, you're probably more or less used to 100-proof plus.

Aaron 1:17:08

Yeah, see, I I see where you're going with this. I would make the argument the sherry sweetness of the Bunahaven probably comes closer to mimicking or paralleling that dark rich sweetness that you often get in bourbons. So I I can see an argument either way. I think I would have I would have picked the other direction. I just think you're wrong. Well, that's all right. I would agree, I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong, and that doesn't make for a very good show.

Gavin 1:17:40

So uh I got one little tidbit outside of the whiskey. One more nugget. One more nugget. All right. Do you know what Isla means? Or like what its nickname, one of its nicknames is.

Aaron 1:17:53

Oh, one of its nicknames. I was gonna say, I've just I've always assumed Isla was Gaelic for Island, because in the world of He's looking over at his map, uh Islands off the West Coast, like it it was kind of like the primary island. That's where a lot of people, um, that's where that's where the clan McDonald comes from, right? Um the idea though that it has other names for sure. Like they got nicknames for everything. I'm I'm never gonna get this.

Gavin 1:18:23

Well, you might, if I give you a hint. There are a group of islands in that part of Scotland.

Aaron 1:18:33

The Hebrideans. The Hebrideans. Oh, so all of the islands off the west coast of Scotland fall on either the inner Hebrideans or the outer Hebrideans, and this may come as a shock, but the inner ones are closer to the mainlands and the outer ones are further out. So that's a that's a bonus nugget.

Gavin 1:18:53

So Isla, Isla is known as the Queen of the Hebridean. Isla? Oh, I like it. So we just tasted two scotches from the queen of the Hebridean Islands.

Aaron 1:19:09

Almost drank the rest of that and realized, uh oh, I need to hold on to that. Um I will say the queen makes some pretty tasty whiskey. Yes. I know we don't have a queen anymore. We have a king now, so we'll see what comes what comes in the future. We'll wait 17 years from now to see how the 18-year-old whiskey under the under the king's rule. His majesty. So part of what prompted this little series is uh, I mean, well, I'll give a shout out. Part of this comes from my wife. My wife has often said, hey, what you need to do is make stuff that she, she's like, I don't know anything about whiskey. Can you make episodes that me and my friends can understand about? So we're like, yeah, why don't we do this? Why don't we go back and break it down into some very basic stuff, walk you through some of the basics. So, although this is a series, this is not going to be a back-to-back to back-to-back series, right? Like we're gonna kind of spread them out, um, intermingling in some other fun stuff that we've got planned.

Gavin 1:20:15

They're gonna shake hands.

Aaron 1:20:17

You'd be able to see each other from across the room, but they're not standing next to each other. Um, we've got some fun episodes coming up over the next few weeks uh that we feel are time specific and want to make sure we get those in. Hi. Um, but stay with us. We still have at least two more scotch basics, if you will, um, episodes where we're gonna talk about bottling and sorry, barreling and bottling. Um, and we'll absolutely have a little bit of an exploration of peat because it is probably the thing most people know of Scotland and Scotch being different than everywhere else is the use of Pete. Pete and repeat. Yeah. Truth is, we could spend six weeks of episodes talking about subtle differences in Scotch rules and other things, and we could get into single grains and blends and all that kind of stuff. We probably won't delve that deep. The idea is this is to somewhat be a beginner's course. And then I'm talking about amylase and glucanates and yeah, no, I got way too deep. We dove deep. We dove deep tonight. But the the shallow end of the pool had a deep spot. So until we see you again, cheers.

Gavin 1:21:34

And sponge va. We want to thank you, our noble listener, for joining us. We believe each whiskey has a story, and so do you. So give us your thoughts by leaving a comment. And if you have a whiskey you'd like to see us share, let us know. You don't want to miss a single episode.

Aaron 1:21:50

So subscribe to our YouTube channel. And make sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok to stay up to date on the Noble Dream.

Gavin 1:21:58

And if you find watching us difficult, you can always listen to each episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. As always, be noble and enjoy your journey responsibly.