The Noble Dram | Kilchoman - Farm Raised (Season 2 | Ep. 20)

What happens when one of Scotland's youngest distilleries decides the best way forward is to look back?

In this episode of The Noble Dram, Gavin and Aaron head to Islay to explore the remarkable story of Kilchoman Distillery, the island's first new distillery in more than 120 years and one of the few true farm distilleries in Scotland.

From barley fields surrounding the distillery to traditional floor maltings and world-class peated whisky, Kilchoman has built a reputation for doing things differently. But is that difference something you can actually taste, or is it simply one of the best stories in Scotch?

Join us as we pour Madeira Cask Matured &  Sanaig, while diving into what makes this distillery so special. Along the way, we'll tackle some of whisky's biggest questions:

🥃 Does "farm-to-bottle" really matter?
🌾 Can terroir exist in Scotch whisky?
🔥 Is young whisky finally earning the respect it deserves?
🏴 Has Kilchoman already become an Islay icon?
💰 Is it still one of the best values in peated Scotch?

Expect plenty of laughs, friendly debate, tasting notes, whisky history, and a few hot takes as we discover why this small farm on Islay has become one of the most respected names in modern Scotch whisky.

Whether you're a longtime peat lover or just beginning your Scotch journey, pour yourself a dram and join us for another unforgettable episode of The Noble Dram.

Slàinte!

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📺 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8iND2s4g7Es

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Transcript

Aaron 0:07

Single farm from barley to bottle. Do you really think that matters?

Gavin 0:14

Or is it just marketing? Welcome everybody to this week of the Noble Dram. This is Gavin. I'm Aaron. And uh as we were sitting here uh thinking about what we wanted to do tonight, we wanted to highlight the Kilchoman distillery. Yeah, yeah. It's a fun one. If you don't know it, you're in for a treat. You should. You should. So as we were looking through the whiskey shelves for a pre-pour, what better pour than a Kilchoman?

Aaron 1:15

And you want to wet the palate with the appropriate brown water.

Gavin 1:20

And why not a hundred percent Islay edition?

Aaron 1:26

Yep. This this one happens to be the 11th edition. They've done this more than once. That's that's a that's a lot of additions. When you realize how young the distillery is, you're right, that's a lot of additions. Absolutely.

Gavin 1:40

And we'll dive into that here shortly. I'm getting ahead of myself. But I want to get to a question that we talked before the camera was rolling. Okay. And that question, ladies and gentlemen, is does craft and boutique distilleries really matter in the grand scheme of things?

Aaron 2:05

Yeah, I so I'll say obviously craft distilleries and boutique distilleries matter in the way of a distillery. The question is, is being craft or being boutique or doing something a little atypical, does it ultimately make for better whiskey and the glass? Or maybe the argument is it just makes for a better story that goes with the whiskey and the glass. And then questions does that make the whiskey somehow taste better, right? Um, we've had that conversation, we've we've debated this one more than once, right? So I I think it's a great conversation to have because Kill Human prides itself on being a bit craft, a bit boutique, a distinctly different than their counterparts, right? So for for those, Gavin asked me to do a little background research on Kilchoman, and he said I only have 43 minutes to give you guys the history of the Kilchoman. The good news is there's not 43 minutes worth of stuff to talk about. And I'm curious why. Uh well, because they began in 2005. Oh my goodness. I would love to say the newest distillery on Isla, but since 2005, another distillery has opened, and yet there is another one currently under construction. Um, maybe one day we'll taste them as well. Assuming we're still we're still doing this years from now when they finally have product. I that would be awesome to get to get to uh to get to formally taste a whiskey that is younger than the Noble Dram. That would be fun. That yeah. Um, so a couple of little caveats. Almost every other distillery is, if not on the water's edge, within earshot of the water's edge, except Kilchoman. Okay. Kilchoman actually, you can get up on the hill and you can see water from there. Island's not that big. You have a hard time not seeing the ocean from anywhere on the island. But but they're on a farm as opposed to being on the coast. I'm sure a lot of that had to do with when the distillery started, right? They didn't need boats to be able to dock to offload their product, right? Like what we're much more advanced in trucking and transportation now than we were back then. But the the fun part is because they're on a farm, specifically the rock side farm, they actually have all of the stuff necessary to them being on a farm to make whiskey. It's very convenient. Yeah, no, works out well. Works out really well. Actually, to the all the way to the end of the production cycle, that all of the waste from the distillery gets used back on the farm as well. So any of the water waste, any of the grain waste that is um, the husks and shells and all that kind of stuff, all of that goes back to feeding crops and feeding livestock, which the livestock turn into more things to feed the crops, right?

Gavin 5:15

Um I thought you were gonna say like bacon and no, which goes delicious with Kilchoman.

Aaron 5:22

I I get it. Um so they pride themselves on the ability to produce a bottle that is 100% theirs, right? The 100% is not just an homage to the barley itself. It's been malted on their malting floor, it has then been peated in their peak kilns, it has then been grilled or ground in their mills, fermented in their tanks, distilled in their distillery, barreled and aged on their property before it is ultimately bottled there on the farm. So there is at no point until it starts heading towards my house, there's no point in that process that it leaves the distillery. So as we sit here in sip, right? Like the the marketing PR phrase, and and lots of distilleries have these. They talk about from grain to glass, right? If you were Heaven Hill, um, or uh if you were boot hill, it's from soil to sip. Kill humans is from barley to bottle, right? How much of that really matters in the quality of the whiskey? So I I we can discuss throughout the entire um show tonight. Um I will say there's a couple couple things that I think are really cool. Just not every distillery shares this information. So not only is Kilchoman one of the newer distilleries on Islay, it is one of the smallest stills on Isla. So their production capacity is much smaller than their counterparts, um, to the tune of tens of times.

Gavin 7:10

So are you saying so I guess the question is does size matter? Yeah, you're talking about small.

Aaron 7:18

I mean, we we we've we made this pun and joke before, right? Um on one side, I think absolutely size matters, right? If you are going to be a worldwide powerhouse brand, you have to have product for people to drink, right? So when you get to a point where you cannot keep up with demand, that that ultimately begins to matter. Also, you could make the argument if I'm not trying to run massive production, I'm trying to just perfect a small amount. Does size matter? Yeah. Probably in the other way that you think about it, right? Being small actually helps. So I can see this both ways.

Gavin 8:01

Yeah, uh I see craft distilleries or even craft breweries where um they focus on, you know, we've we've talked about it before, focusing on your own backyard, right? They they they focus locally and they don't tend to go outside of their region or state sometimes. This is completely different.

Aaron 8:24

Yeah. You last week you got to tell the story of when you were at Balvenie. This distillery happens to be one I visited. So this is a place we got to go on the tour, and you walk through the space, and and they were they were turning barley on the malting floor, and then you got to go over and they they let us toss chunks of peat into the kiln. We got to see all of those stages of um production and maturation. Um and ultimately what it does is it allows them to have much more control. I say much more control. I I've never worked at either a small nor a large distiller. So this is just my perception from the outside. Um, but it sure gives the impression that they're afforded the opportunity to treat each drop of spirit, each barrel in the warehouse with a little bit more TLC and care and concern. Maybe that's just the marketing spin, right? If I was selling Kilchoman , that's the exact marketing story I would tell, right? No, no, no. We tr we treat these with love. It's like the Wagyu beef where they give the cows massage, right? I don't know as if that actually makes it any better or not, but it god, I must really love those cows, right?

Gavin 9:48

I what I will say is I think when you think about the small boutique uh companies, regardless of whatever they're producing, right? I tend to go support those guys a lot of the times when I'm a when I'm on a different side of the the table where I'm purchasing it, right? Because I I think like I want to support the craft men and women out there, and so I tend to go that direction.

Aaron 10:25

I I I think it is inherent in our nature to say that I want to support the small guys because the big guys are gonna do well enough without my support, right? Right. Um true of the matter is you stop buying the big guy stuff and they're gonna have to let people go. And like like they they have all of the business problems that small places have too. Every business has yeah, for sure. So I yeah, it's two sides of the same coin, so to speak. All right. So one of the problems is uh huh, this was just the pre-pour. What we've spent one, I want to say, first off, thumbs up. This is really tasty. We're not gonna give it a score. We're we're not we weren't critiquing, we weren't taking notes on it. We're just sitting in enjoying it as we chatted. Um, but what I'll say is if you get a chance to try it, sorry.

Gavin 11:09

Go go try it, right? 100%. You should go try this. See, see, marketing.

Aaron 11:16

He's working on, he's working on all right. So all right, so I think I'm gonna sit, I'm gonna set this one over here so I can remember which one it is because we're gonna end up with a lot of glasses on the table before the night's done. Tonight is something fun. Gavin and I each got to go pick um a different bottle of Kilchoman. I opted for part of their standard core range. So I picked Sanaig. Saniag, or as Gavin will say in a Gaelic accent, I don't know if it's real or not, but let him do it. Sanaig. Sanaig. Sanaig. All right, so I know. I one of the things I will say, I I looking at looking at how everything appears on camera, um, I will say this is a little lighter and more golden, but no, this one's every bit as dark as this looks. Yes. All right, so one thing that has never happened before on any episode of the Noble Dram, in which we have opened, brand new opened three bottles for a show. So we opened the 100% Islay. We are now going to open the Sanaig. Um, and I guess kind of gave away a bit of the surprise when we get to Gavin's bottle. He's also going to have to peel foil.

Gavin 12:36

So um I like to peel foil.

Aaron 12:39

As with as with any live on-air performance. I hope I don't break this cork. I run the risk. That's a good pop. Sounds delicious. All right, so let's talk a little bit.

Gavin 12:55

If delicious had a sound, what would it sound like? It sounds like a cork popping out of a whiskey bottle. I couldn't agree more. And a sizzle of bacon.

Aaron 13:04

You can't go wrong with either of those. I won't lie. I don't want to lie. Oh man. All right, so we should start by just clarifying for everybody at home. These are peated whiskies. There is nothing subtle about the smoky aroma that is filling this room. All right. Sanaig clocks in at 46% ABV. This is a vetted blend of their standard two agings. One, X-Bourbon barrels. Most places don't tell you this. These guys do. These are Buffalo Trace Barrels. The other barrelings are sherry butts and sherry hogs heads. Right, two different sizes. Okay. These are from the Bodega Miguel Martin. For all my shortcomings in Gaelic, I probably have those in Spanish as well. So if I mispronounced any of that, I apologize as well.

Gavin 14:13

We apologize for his English too. It's okay. That's fair.

Aaron 14:17

So this one happens to be a 70% bourbon matured. Sorry. I apologize. 70% sherry matured, 30% bourbon. One of the ways, Kilchoman's really good, they put this little barcode on the bottom and it says sherry on one and bourbon on the other, and then the little bar slides back and forth on each of their releases, giving you an idea how much bourbon forward versus um cherry forward. So you will see that on a lot of their releases. Typically not on specialty finishes or specialty maturation barrels, where it's something else, but in their product, their standard core offerings, you'll see that. Sanaig actually comes from the name of the northwest Atlantic coast of the island of Isla. From a little place called Sanaigmore on down as you approach the Kilchoman distillery. That kind of rough sea, battered edge of the island is the Sanaig. This one, like most of their whiskeys, peated to 50 parts per million. So we talked about the average range when people start talking about peat. Is that 50 to 60, 65? This is right in that wheelhouse. Not exceptionally peated, but certainly peated, right? Like I don't I don't even have to get the glass to my nose to know that this one is peated. Oh yes. All right, so I do want to carry on our conversation because I think there's a lot of fun um to this idea of crafting whiskey as opposed to what all air quotes producing whiskey. I know there's a bit of splitting hairs there, but there's something about the love and care mom puts into making a cake versus the store bought cake, right? Absolutely. I don't know as if that's a fair assessment. I'm not a baker, I guess, but I think there's a little bit of that.

Gavin 16:30

To to dial it into something so to make it so simple, I think that's a good analogy.

Aaron 16:36

Yeah, so I'm a barbecue guy. I obviously put a lot more TLC and love and care into the rack of ribs I'm making than if you stop by the gas station barbecue joint. I like I think they're just slapping out racks after racks after racks. I'll be honest, I've known people who have smokers that they can't cook as good as the gas station. Like, just because you pour your heart and soul into it doesn't mean it's good at the end. And I think that's the caveat to me that when somebody says, oh no, no, no, you gotta try this. This is this is a very craft boutique. I was like, yeah, but does that make it better? Ultimately, just because somebody doesn't make a lot of it doesn't mean it's necessarily delicious. And is that is that too harsh? I I want to clarify, I'm not speaking about Kilchoman when I say that, right? Um so far, I've been through a lot of bottles of Kilchoman in my day. So far, the they they seem to know what they're doing.

Gavin 17:40

Well, yeah, I I think on a just on a personal level to think about something that is mass-produced, right? And this bottle actually, I'm not gonna poo-poo on buffalo trace by any means, but they use they use buffalo trace barrels.

Aaron 18:09

So I need to understand why. Are you not poo-pooing on buffalo trace? I'm confused. You made that sound like that's a normal thing for you, and you're going to back off a little bit here.

Gavin 18:19

No, no, I mean we're talking big box, if you were to say big big box retailer or big uh producer of whiskey, a massive producer. A massive producer versus a craft, right? Sometimes craft distillers or craftsmen will use products from a big box producer or store. And so there is a I guess a way of thinking that everyone's gonna use it at some point. With it, like I when I think about woodworking, like I not a lot of people know it so much, but I love to woodwork. Um are you good at it though? Used to be.

Aaron 19:02

Does that does that like I've got I've got a variety of tools, but you don't want me working on your car. Well, let's just be honest.

Gavin 19:10

That's a good point. But as somebody that likes the craft of woodworking, having that piece of wood in your hands and those tools in your hands, I bought those tools at a big box store. So there's there's a bit of play, I think, in realizing that just because you are a crafter boutique, you may have had to find and source other things to make your product that was mass produced.

Aaron 19:39

There are there are some things that are hard to produce one off, right? They become so incredibly expensive to make one at a time that mass production actually does make it available to the masses. So I'm not I'm not poo-pooing on the idea of mass production. I drive a car that was made on an assembly line. Well, it's a truck, but that's an I would it be cool to own a handmade sports car? Sure. I'm never going to get there. I don't know. I'm buy a lottery ticket every once in a while. I that's that's not that's not in when I sit down with my financial advisor, he does not mention that as an option for me in the future.

Gavin 20:25

It's a give and take.

Aaron 20:29

The concern I have is just because you can do it yourself doesn't mean you do it better than somebody who owns that craft, right? And we live in a world that has allowed us to be hyper specialized. You could be the best barley malter in the country, right? Not every distillery gets to have that guy. So in those instances, maybe going to a malter where that guy works and runs and makes sure your malted barley is as good as it gets, maybe that's not a bad thing. Right? It's my understanding. I'm reading into the marketing here. This bottle says 100% Islay. This bottle doesn't. That certainly implies some of the barley is coming from somewhere else, right? Like in an effort to maintain production volume, right? Like you can't control everything all the time, right?

Gavin 21:38

Um, well, and so you mentioned um was it is it Rockside Farm? Yep, that's the name of the farm. So as a as somebody that owns land, you have an infinite amount. Like there's only so much. No, no, you have a finite amount. Yeah, finally.

Aaron 22:01

I want to know where this land is that's infinite. You just keep walking. Yeah. It's like the world in the Sims, right? Like you just it just keeps coming around. Like I think the weirdest thing.

Gavin 22:10

There's a finite amount of land available, right? And so that means to produce barley, there's only so much you can produce. Yeah.

Aaron 22:21

Listen, I think it's awesome to work on perfecting small steps along the way, right? Like it's what I do in my job, it's what I do in my hobbies. Uh I I am way over analytical in drinking whiskey, right? For sure. For sure. But but ultimately, I think the truth is just because I love to do it doesn't make me the best at it. Although I'm really good at drinking whiskey. I'm one of the best at it that I know. And in fairness, I don't know a lot of people. Still relatively limited in my exposure to whiskey drinkers. My wife tries to keep me away from them.

Gavin 23:07

I think that's a lie. That is a bold-faced lie and you know it.

Aaron 23:15

The problem I have with the the attention to individual details in the process. There is so many details. Can you honestly tell me that you can sit down with a glass and say, yeah, that is all barley grown on Isla. Like you can taste it. Like I like, I like the story. I really do. I just don't know as if it translates. There's so many variables. Shape of the still, how long you let it ferment, what type of yeast, where is the heads, where is the tails, what kind of barrel it gets put in, what was the temperature ranges, did you rotate the barrels? When you blend, when you vat it back together, how many of the bourbon barrels versus the pork or the sherry or port all of that goes into what's in that glass? So I have a hard time saying one variable is clearly distinguishable. I'll say the difference might be whether or not you peat.

Gavin 24:28

Right? If you peat it, we know. Well, but and you can divide the peat into different regions as well.

Aaron 24:34

For sure. Well, where did you get the peat? Exactly. How what was the humidity level of the peat pieces when you put them into the kiln and then it began to smoke and smolder? How long was the grain in there? What was the moisture content of the grain when it went in? Right? Like all of those things.

Gavin 24:50

Was it a rainy season? Oh, yeah, for sure. Because I think with rain, if it's a rainy season, I think the barley is actually smaller. So is the size of you're the farmer.

Aaron 25:05

I grew up in the country, but we did not farm. Is the size I I was gonna say city folk, but I grew up in a small enough place. I don't know if you can call it city. We were town to town. We were townies for sure.

Gavin 25:17

Yeah, I remember when my town put up the sign that it was a certified city. Oh and at that point in that area, you had to beat 2,000 people. Oh, never mind. We were a city.

Aaron 25:30

Never mind, we were a city then. We were over. You know, a term for I was gonna say a city, but it's not city. A term we don't use in the States, but it's used quite often in Europe, is village. Village? Yeah, I don't know what the definition of a village is. Township. We do use township. Um I I I did grow up in an area where there would often be a cluster of houses and it just says unincorporated. Or like it was just people who lived really close together and got a stop sign.

Gavin 26:00

Not a stop sign, but a stop sign.

Aaron 26:02

I want to I want to talk about this because we got well, I mean we have a whole other whiskey to go, and we've got a special treat for you guys. So um we will continue the conversation here in a second. Talk to me about the nose on Kilchoman's Sanaig.

Gavin 26:19

Sanaig. Sanaig. Um still not sure I'm getting that right. Me either. But I bet we have a friend.

Aaron 26:26

You're not sure I'm getting it right, or you're not sure you're getting it right.

Gavin 26:29

Well, either. Let's just be honest. Um, but we have a friend. And that friend will let us know. He'll tell us uh on this, the nose. Uh Pete uh definitely shows up on the nose. I think there's a smoky ness that can that can show up. Um I also put uh let me go back to my notes over here.

Aaron 26:56

Um sorry. Oh good lord. How many pages did you write on? Oh lots. You want me to tell you about my nose while you try to figure out what you're doing over there? Uh no.

Gavin 27:05

Um raisins. Yeah. I got raisins.

Aaron 27:11

Um there is a this much sherry, you're expecting dark fruits. Yes. Right. Like, I mean, and I I don't I don't think this leaves you wanting for it, right? Like it's there. I I that I'll say, I don't think when you think of like sherry bombs, I don't think this is quite that sherry. I think inherently the peep battles with the sweetness of the fruit, right? Like so I I don't know if you can get quite to the full-fledged sherry bomb kind of mentality, but it's delicious.

Gavin 27:47

I agree. Um, there's a licorice kind of note in there that shines through, I think on the nose or on the ballot? On the nose. Between the smoke, raisin-y, and then maybe the licorice.

Aaron 28:02

Yeah, I get a I get a hint of like a centrist citrusy orange peel, something like that. Um, not quite as tart as lemon or lime. Um, this is a little sweeter, okay. A little richer. Um and I think I think a lot of those same things carry on to the palate. I don't want to speak for you, but like when you move to the palate, like all the other classic cherry fruits, cherries, plums, um, anything's got a dark pit on the inside, right? Like grapes, dates. Um maybe a little fig.

Gavin 28:40

Yeah, I think like maybe a little of that.

Aaron 28:42

Um, but yeah, I the problem is you didn't say peat often enough for how much peat there is. We talked a lot about the chicken. Like there is every bit as much peat. Um I actually think on the nose it's a little more smoky peat, but on the palate, I think it turns a little more earthy. Some of that some of that smoke ebbs just a little bit, if you will.

Gavin 29:10

Yeah, on the palate, I put that um like imagine taking a bouquet of flowers and you threw it in the campfire. I think there's a florally smokiness that comes out. Come? So it wasn't just like your normal uh wood in the fire. I think there was a bit of a floral note that that that came through. And then I think the ex-bourbon barrels kind of shone through, and I got a little bit of that stale cola.

Aaron 29:38

Yeah, I I you get cola a lot of times, right? I to me, I think the bourbon barrel begins to show up more on the finish. Okay, because I get I get more of the caramel. I get the darker caramel, right? For sure. I think the sherry still impacts it. Um I get a bit of the classic baking spices, right, that start to show up on the finish. I was surprised, as much as I thought the peat showed up on the nose and the palate, the peat wasn't the primary flavor on the finish. The the peats and the smokiness actually kind of ebbed, and I picked up a lot of other stuff on the way. I think the other stuff begins to die off and the and the smoke shows back up. I guess I think it just kind of low hum underneath everything else, right? And when when everything else dies away, you're left with just the smoke and pee. Um but yeah, I I think the I think the finish actually ends up maybe sweeter in a in a pure sugary sweetness kind of way than I think the palate or the nose was.

Gavin 30:47

I agree with that. I put that the there was a bit of a syrupy note on the finish. Surrupy, I like that term. It's official. It's an official, it's on the wheel. You're putting it on the wheel, aren't you? Yeah, it's on the wheel. Yeah.

Aaron 31:01

It'll be a whole new benchmark. Is it on the wheel? We need to check.

Gavin 31:06

Yeah.

Aaron 31:06

All right. Are you prepared to give this a number? Uh no, but let's do it anyways.

Gavin 31:13

Okay.

Aaron 31:14

Okay. I wrote my down. Pins down. All right. So, what I will say is I'm really enjoying going back to the nose on the first one. I haven't, I did not go back and retaste the Islay, but it like if if you're looking for the dark leathery kind of things on Snake, um going back and smelling the Isla and then coming back to it, yeah. It's it's dark leather. Yeah, agreed. All right, give it a number, Gavin. I gave you a, I stretched as long as I could for you.

Gavin 31:46

85. I think it's a good, solid, um Isla heated whiskey.

Aaron 31:56

I no, no, go on, go on. I'm I'm ready. I'm ready to tell you how you're wrong.

Gavin 32:01

To to debate it. Um debate. What left me wanting was, I think on the finish, it finished a little softer than I was expecting.

Aaron 32:14

Say just a little just a little bit. As a guy who enjoys a Highland Sherry Bomb, right? I'll premise this. Preface this with I do really enjoy Sherried Scotch. This beautifully balances the smoky peat and the sharpness that can come from that and the rich sweetness with that just that hint of that caramel sugary sweetness from the bourbon. This is a big one. 88 for me. 88 for me. 1.51 giga-watts. I was I was wondering if I was a little low at 88, and then you said 85, and I'm just appalled might not be the right term, but it's close. It's really close. That is an excellent, excellent whiskey. I'll say we opened this bottle tonight. Yep. This is not the first bottle of Sanaig I've had. No, no, no, no. Oh, I thought that. This one I have I've enjoyed this repeatedly. Um, we we drank Sanaig at the distillery. I've owned several bottles. Um as my alma mater episode would suggest, I do love a good tint of purple. So I guess this is checking all the boxes for a guy like me. All right. Kilchoman Sanaig. Gavin's at an 85. I'm at an 88. So we started this episode tonight, drinking the 100% Islay release. We reached out to Kilchoman and said we wanted some more information, a little bit more about the production process, what you guys go about making your whiskeys in general. And they sent us this wonderful little video that walked through the production of 100% Islay and more importantly, the basics of their production. So we thought it was so well done, we wanted to make sure we shared it with you guys. So while we try to find room for more glasses on the table and get ready for pour number two, we're gonna let you check it out. And we'll see you guys here in just a sec.

Kilchoman 34:29

Every drop of Kilchoman's single malt is a work of art. It all begins with a seed of barley buried deep in the soil. Once the barley is harvested, it's spread across the malt floor and turned by hand, triggering germination. The green malt is then smoked using Islay peat to give Kilchoman whiskey its distinct, smoky character. The malted barley is then milled into grist and poured into the mash ton. Hot water extracts the sugars from the crushed grains. In the wash bags, yeast is added by hand and fermentation begins. The liquid is then carefully heated and distilled through our washing spirit stills. The alcohol evaporates and rises up the neck, condensing into a clear liquid. The spirit is then aged in oak casks, hand picked from around the world. Over many months and years, the whiskey seeps in and out of cracks in the wood as they open and close, slowly taking on the color and characters of the individual casks. Once matured, the whiskey is bottled and the journey is complete. So when you next pour a dram of Kilchoman 100% Islay, know that every drop contains the rugged landscape of Islay, where whiskey making has always been an art form.

Aaron 36:21

Alright, we want to thank the team over at Impex Beverages, Sam Filmus and all his guys, uh, for shooting that over to us. I thought it was really well done. Uh, one of the things we lack is an artistic production team. So we described some stuff, and I always think, man, this would be better if we had a cool graphic. They got guys that do cool graphics. So, thank you again, guys. We really appreciate it.

Gavin 36:48

Now, bottle two, my favorite part of every episode. But before we get to that, if anybody wants to help us with our production.

Aaron 36:59

No, we can't pay you, but I mean, whatever. You just your name will we'll put your like a scrolling ticket at the bottom.

Gavin 37:08

All right. So tonight, my poor. Did you see that? Cheers myself with an empty glass. I don't know if that is that bad luck. It's like spilling the salt on the table. It feels bad, feels dirty almost. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Aaron 37:26

All right. There's something wrong with you. That's what I've decided.

Gavin 37:28

So, my bottle, this is the Madeira cask matured. Again, as we mentioned before, an unopened bottle.

Aaron 37:42

I know. This is exciting. You know what I also realized as we were starting to do this? I'm gonna steal just just a skosh of your thunder. This bottling is also a 2021 release. That was a good year for my Kilchoman purchasing. Ooh. I know. All right, I need silence. I need silence. There we go. I even got the hand like felt like an orchestra conductor. Is that an instrument? Cork puller. I think we can make it. Ooh, that's a healthy pour. Yeah, I I poured light on my first one just because I knew this was what you're gonna do. Holy snakes! All right, we've had a this has really been a trifecta because these are three distinctly different whiskies.

Gavin 38:31

So this, tell us about it. This is uh also a vatted release, and 46 casks went into this release.

Aaron 38:43

Do you know how many bottles that is?

Gavin 38:44

Yes, in fact, I do.

Aaron 38:46

Oh shit, I didn't think you were gonna know that. Got it now. Zing er

Gavin 38:55

17,000 bottles came out of those 46 casks.

Aaron 38:58

Now we're down to 16,999.

Gavin 39:01

I think we need some more on the shelves.

Aaron 39:04

Uh this is actually I have bad news. I I've actually already drank one of these. I somehow I ended up with two of these, and we've already drank one of them. What? So I I owned two seventeen thousandths of the production room. I mean, sometimes it's good to be me. That's good math if you're you. Even if you're not me, it's still good math.

Gavin 39:32

All right. So uh we're sitting at uh five-year maturation on this beauty. Uh, this was distilled in May of 2015. All right, we are clocking in at 50% ABV and 50 ppm or parts per million. Interesting.

Aaron 39:58

Yeah. Oh, never mind. I wasn't sure I got 50 parts per million. I was thinking like maybe 35, but no, I it comes to you. It comes to 40.

Gavin 40:07

49.999. It's a rounding error. Maybe.

Aaron 40:11

But I I I don't know how they like physically measure parts per million. Right? I don't know. I I'm sure they have some sort of fancy computer thing and they dump stuff into it.

Gavin 40:22

I think we need a field trip to Kilchoman. So I think we need to make that happen so we can learn how they do parts per million.

Aaron 40:32

I've already been to the Kilchoman distillery. I don't know if I need to go again, but for science, for science, I do it. For you guys, for you guys, I would go back.

Gavin 40:42

Let us know if we need to go to the distillery.

Aaron 40:47

Let us know if you're going. We'll tag along.

Gavin 40:49

Let's make it happen.

Aaron 40:51

All right. Gavin fits in a carry-on, so we can get over there pretty cheap.

Gavin 40:57

Hey, you know, whatever it takes.

Aaron 41:00

Gavin and I would be willing to sleep in shifts, so we only need one bed between the two of us. No, nope, don't make it weird. Don't make it weird. Darn it. All right, hold up. You start, you are you is that all there is to say about this?

Gavin 41:15

Uh yeah. For the specs of it, I think it is down and dirty. Obviously, uh, let's talk just real quick what Madeira is.

Aaron 41:25

Well, hold up before you do that, one more speck on the bottle. I did go look. That bottle I paid $120 for.

Gavin 41:33

$120.

Aaron 41:34

Inversely, Sanaig ran me somewhere around $75 to 80. Like I said, I've had several bottles, and so depending on on which which line item in the spreadsheet, uh, varied price.

Gavin 41:46

And this is a special release. It's addition no, no, 2000. 2021. That's right.

Aaron 41:54

So they so one of the things Kilchoman likes to do is run these kind of specialty maturation releases. The they don't release them every year, right? So it might be a while before they feel like another Madero run is ready. Um, they've done a PX matured that was absolute lights out. I they've done that release a couple different times, and I have bought multiples of every one of them because, like I said, I'm I'm Sherry, Sherry Bomb guy, and that I think is a wonderful little word. Your nickname, but but I I digress and plug way too many other bottles of Kill Human. I as you can see over Gavin's head here. Um, these are not the only Kill Humans I have, and we've pulled some off, and I've I've got some more down here on the floor behind us. Um, I I'm a I'm a big fan. How could you not be a big fan? I mean, you could you could not like Pete. Fair. And then I'm sorry, and you need to work on that. If that's you, you need to sit down, find a mirror, take a good long look at yourself, and get your shit together.

Gavin 43:09

Call us. I we'll help you walk you through like we'll help you through through the process. Like, we love doing that. It is one of our pastimes to help folks that are not Pete fans, and we just tippy toe into it a little bit.

Aaron 43:27

Man, so we did the Peat episode and we talked about like, are you better off to tippy toe or are you better off to jump into the deep end? Like I one of the things I do enjoy doing is have somebody come over, get two or three glasses in, and then just drop a peat bomb on them. And if they freak out, they're like, okay, fine. Next time you come over, we'll dial them back a tad bit. Every so often, though, you run into somebody who's like, Whoa, why have you been keeping this hidden all night long? And you're like, Yeah. You're my cup of tea, right there.

Gavin 44:02

My cup of char.

Aaron 44:04

Like, like my wife, my wife got me a t-shirt years ago, and it said I would much rather be one person's glass of whiskey than everybody's cup of tea. And I was like, Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

Gavin 44:16

Uh I need that shirt.

Aaron 44:18

I like it. It wouldn't fit you, it'd be too big. All right. Shall we continue the conversation or do you have more uh nuggets? You were gonna talk about Madeira.

Gavin 44:29

Yeah, so Madeira. What is Madeira? Madeira is a fortified wine. So some things about fortified wine that you might, I guess maybe one of the better ways of saying it is one of the fun characteristics of Madeira is its fruity character. So balancing something like a very peated whiskey with that fruit flavor, that fruit characteristics, I think is going to be very interesting once we get there.

Aaron 45:04

Um, yeah, I think most people are probably more familiar with Madeira as a cooking wine than probably sipping Madeira. I will warn you, the Madeira they sell at your grocery store for you to cook with is nothing like the good Madeira that you have as an after dinner drink or as a as a pre-dinner pour or whatever. Um yeah, the the go way back when. One of the reasons that they fortified wines is it drastically increased its longevity, its shelf life, right? Because we we rose the ABV, things don't tend to turn. Your wine has a tendency to eventually turn and turn into vinegar. Fortified wines don't have that problem. And they they literally just take wine, distill it, and then mix it back in with wine, right? And then that just raises the ABV, but ultimately it raises the ABV with a lot of the same flavors it started with, right? So we haven't changed the flavor profile while increasing proof.

Gavin 46:14

I always thought fortified wine meant that they put a fort around it. Yeah, no, they they they build like little stone walls around every every cask.

Aaron 46:23

I always thought that makes sense. Um I'm learning something. They they store all the casks in the basement of forts. That's one of the things that they do too. Yeah, that's that's why it's fortified. Dumb as sometimes even I can't believe how stupid we are.

Gavin 46:42

Makes for good television.

Aaron 46:44

All right, can we get back to conversation? Because I think there's I think there's an important aspect to the conversation we've been having that we have to date not addressed. Uh oh, what's that? We talked a lot about does craft boutique, finite control, all of this kind of stuff, does it make better whiskey? But my question is do you care? It absolutely makes a better story about my whiskey. And last week we're drinking Balvenie, and one of them was the bottle you brought back from the distillery. I even admitted it probably added a point to my score, maybe two, right? Like, that's cool to have a bottle that came from there. One you filled yourself a whiskey that was the glass, the last glass you shared with dad, right? Or it was the first time dad sat down and shared a glass with me and made me feel like I was a man. I was on the same plane with him, right? Whatever that is, it's it's the celebratory pour you had after the promotion or the wedding or whatever, right? Like the story behind the whiskey you drank absolutely impacts the enjoyment of the glass. I'm not saying changes the flavor, I'm saying it changes your enjoyment of it. So if I'm not positive we settled on this, but if the answer was it doesn't really matter, do you still like it?

Gavin 48:28

Oh man, that's a great question. And I would say I think every time I'm at a distillery, even if even if the whiskey isn't as good as I would hope it would be, there's something about being at a distillery, seeing the facilities, listening to the person tell the story of the distillery that romances the spirit a bit, a bit, and it gives life to it. And it, you know, we we talked about um in last week's episode giving soul to the whiskey, right? To the glass, because you could go, you know, as a boutique or a craft distiller, um you don't have that rich history of tradition of doing something like they did 130 years ago. However, you get a distillery like Kilchoman , who still does traditional kind of styles of floor molting, they offer that. That is a that is something that I think romances the story a little bit. And so I get I get lost in the story. I think story is very important. Um, it's why we even do half of what we do here. I mean, we love drinking whiskey, we love hanging out, but we also love telling the story because we do feel like every glass, every sip tells a story, every bottle tells a story, every person that you set across the table from tells a story. So I think story is important and you can't separate that from the whiskey. Now, if the story is great and the whiskey is horrible, I think that's where you get a little bit into trouble.

Aaron 50:28

Um, I think you I think we've all been there. You've gone to a distillery, especially one that you don't know anything about, right? Like it's just like you're in town and you're like, oh, what should we do? Like, oh, there's a distillery not too far. Like, you go check it out. And you get down there and you're having a good time, and you and your buddies are enjoying the tour, and that and the tour guide is really pleasant and chatty, and you get to talking about their production stuff, and you have three or four glasses, and he's like, Have you guys tried this one? You try this, and the next thing you know, you come home with a bottle. And then a couple weeks go by, and you sit down and say, Oh man, I really enjoyed that one when we were there, and you crack it open and you realize there was something about being there in the moment that made it better, right? Yeah, I and we often make the joke, right? Like people ask, like, what's what's the best whiskey? And I always say the third one, right? Doesn't matter what you're drinking, the third one is the best. You've had just enough to really, really enjoy it, but not so much that you can't remember how much you enjoyed it, right? Like that's the sweet spot for me. And I I think we all fall victim a little bit to the story and the the pageantry and and being there in the moment. Um, it's one of the things I have always enjoyed about blind tastings is that you remove the story and you can really focus on just the whiskey. But in reality, that's not how I enjoy whiskey. Right? If given the opportunity to sit and just enjoy a glass, I know what it is. Part of when I when I come into the room and look around and I pick up, I go, oh yeah, like I remember the story of whoever I had that with before. I it absolutely plays into the enjoyment of the glass. So in my mind, do I care? No. I'd actually go so far as to say, even if I know it doesn't do anything for the taste of the whiskey, I love the story so much I want the story. Right? Um, whether it's the story of the production or the story of the enjoyment. Now, that being said, I think the risk you run is that you enjoy the story more than you do the whiskey. And then when you really sit down and delve into the whiskey, it's like it it falls flat from where you wanted it to be. If that's a fair way to describe it.

Gavin 52:57

Yeah, and I guess one of the things I would say is when you're tasting the whiskey in the distillery, in the tasting room, wherever you're at, if you're in the warehouse. I mean, I I was even listening to um some stories of folks that tasted a whiskey in the warehouse where the barrels are aging.

Aaron 53:20

Oh, there's something about the smell.

Gavin 53:22

Yeah.

Aaron 53:22

The of the angel share just in the like yeah. Like I like I I often talk about we did this whole big long trip through Scotland and we were we hit tons of distilleries and everything. And and some of my favorite distilleries we got to visit. But when we got home, people asked me, like, what was the one? I was like, we sat in the Rick House or in the aging warehouse at Deanston, and they pulled straight from a barrel into our glass, and it was the most incredible thing. It also happened to be the last distillery we visited, right? So there's a bit of nostalgia, the trip's coming to an end, right? Like this is the last chance, the last chance to enjoy a pour with dad. Like, like all of those things combined together on that trip that like everything came together in that spot. If that had been a spot we stopped first, and we just did a tasting in their tasting room, would I have said that that whiskey was every bit as good? I don't I don't know that I would have.

Gavin 54:32

It's the cheeky romance novel. Like you want, you want it, and then you want to be left wanting. And then when you bring that same whiskey home, even if you bottled it there in the Rick House, in the warehouse, and you brought it home and you tasted it at home, it's gonna taste different because your senses, everything around you is completely different. The environment, right? Like I think the story is amazing, but I the whiskey I think can taste different depending on where you're at. And oh, for sure. I hot weather, cold weather, right?

Aaron 55:10

Changes it. I so here's here's another way to look at the story arc. I think often we want to attribute the little guys making better whiskey because it makes us feel better that the little guy can beat the big guy, right? Yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask two questions, and they're ultimately kind of pointing at the same thing. First, I would say, do you believe it is harder or easier to produce one perfect barrel? Right? Pour all your heart and soul into one perfect barrel and it'd be amazing. Even if it's nothing like anything else they produce, that one is spectacular. Or do you think it is a greater challenge to reproduce the same whiskey at the same quality batch after batch after batch, year after year, adjusting and accounting for all those variables that we talked about that change the whiskey, but trying to work that back towards that flavor, that profile. They're different skill sets. I'm not suggesting they're the same, but my question is like I think we poo-poo one of those two and we praise another. I'm not positive we're praising the one that's actually harder.

Gavin 56:48

So are you asking me? Yeah, okay. So I'm gonna hold up.

Aaron 56:52

No, no, I'm let's ask them. All right, well, since we can't hear you, Gavin, go ahead.

Gavin 56:58

So I'm gonna pull a Gavin here and I'm gonna You're gonna be wishy-washy. I'm gonna be wishy-washy.

Aaron 57:04

Dig through your notes for 10 minutes.

Gavin 57:05

Yeah. Um, so there's a couple things. One, I don't think there's ever a perfect single barrel. You know what I meant. I think now you're splitting now. You're splitting yourself. Everybody is searching for that, and you've got to you've got to have that rabbit out there that you can chase, that carrot that you can chase. Because just like our score sheet, like there's not a 100. Like, we don't believe in a 100 because there's not a perfect whiskey out there, like we're always searching for that next really good experience. So chasing the lightning, as they say. Yeah, so it's a different reference. So I don't I don't know if that's ever achievable. And then on the other side of it about um basically creating that that consistent batch. Well, over time, I think your batches change notes a little bit. You're you drift. It drifts, right? And so I think on both sides it takes, just like you said, a separate set of skills to do both of those. And do I think either one of them is over one or the other? No, I think that that it takes a master on both sides to be able to create those.

Aaron 58:29

I think inherently, because the availability of a mass-produced bottle is just so much more obvious when you walk into the store. Every every restaurant I go to has that bottle. Every liquor store I go to has that bottle. We just equate that internally as that one must be easy to do, right? And I'm not positive that's the case. I think I think it does a disservice to the guys who produce quality, repeatable product to say that it must be easy because of how good you are at it. Right? Yeah. I hope, I hope in my job nobody looks around and goes, it must be easy. See how often he does it, right? Like I I hope people look at me and say, that guy's that guy does perfection repeatedly. That's what I want. I I get not. That's not what everybody says. All right, hold up. I said two-part question, but I do want to talk about this whiskey. All right, yes. So let's go talk about what we're getting on this one, then we'll come back and we'll close with one quick question. Okay. All right, so your bottle.

Gavin 59:32

My bottle,

Aaron 59:33

My notes. Yes. All right, so I'm I'm gonna say this, and I want this to not sound negative because it changes to a positive as I sat here and sipped. This is distinctly unlike Seneca. Seneca was sweet and desserted and fruity, and this was a punch you in the mouth, savory, herbaceous kind of thing going on. Herbaceous. The nose is smoky, just like all the rest of the Kilchomans, right? But I like for the nose, I had a hard time defining what that one thing was, but I wrote down savory herb butter. Oh, right, like it's got that variety of flavors and spices, but not like we think ground cinnamon and nutmeg. This feels more savory. I understand why people cook chicken in Marsala wine, right? This has that herbaceous thing. And it and I'll say, I don't know, I'm gonna cheat at the last thing I wrote down on my tasting notes is this deserves the entree, not the dessert. This is the whiskey I want to drink with this with a big meaty steak sitting on the table or a big chunk of meat, right? It's an egg, that that that's dessert. I finished my meal and I'm sitting and enjoying it, right? This this is completely down the savory path for me.

Gavin 1:01:08

So we got we we actually put these backwards then. This you think this is desserty? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What I'm saying is this is appetizer. Ooh, this is entree, and that's dessert.

Aaron 1:01:23

Now I so yeah, for those people who are listening in their car, um, this, this, and this means nothing. What are you suggesting is 100% highly? That was the palate prepper. It was the light, it was the the apertif, if you will. The Madeira cask that's your entree, and we finished dessert with the Sanaig. I I think that's a like if now having tasted all three side by side, if we were if we were putting together a formal tasting, that would absolutely be the order I'd put these in.

Gavin 1:01:55

Yeah, I I agree with that. I think on the nose, uh, one of the things that I put down was there was a like a honey nut Cheerio note that I got. Um the nose? Yeah, almost over a campfire.

Aaron 1:02:11

So I think if you took your like you just got a skewer with just little Cheerios all stacked up, got a marshmallow on the end so they don't fall off. Or rotate. That's awesome. It's ridiculous, but awesome. Awesome.

Gavin 1:02:29

Uh obviously the peat, the smoke.

Aaron 1:02:32

Um yeah, I think I'd have gone more just regular Cheerios. Nobody makes herb butter Cheerios, but now I kind of want them to.

Gavin 1:02:41

It's like it's like uh the people that put in for a different kind of Oreo. You could put No.

Aaron 1:02:48

It's it's the like the herbed panko breadcrumbs that you would bread the chicken or whatever in, right? Like, yeah, I get that. Yeah. All right. Do you think that tracks on the palate? Absolutely. So so I on the on the on the palette, I wrote rich, I wrote earthy, and I wrote salty. There is a savory, salty note that comes in on the palette that I really, really enjoy. Um, yeah, and and the funny thing was like when I first wrote it down, or first started sipping and and and tasting, I was like, man, I'm just I've got to find the right way to describe this. And what I ultimately came back with, this got better with each and every sip. And I part of me thinks it's because we had started with dessert and then came back to the entree. I think if we'd have done it the other way around, I don't know if it would have taken six or seven sips to get there. Um, but yeah, this is this is robust. Um, I I hate to say protein forward. Is that a it feels like this should this should have a piece of roasted chicken or a steak um or a nice grilled pork chop or something like that to go with it. Yeah. Um that'll be our new thing. It's like we just taste whiskey and tell you what you should eat with it.

Gavin 1:04:13

Bloody brilliant.

Aaron 1:04:16

It would be fun to do a night where we pick foods and whiskeys that we don't think will go together, and then we have to guess which one should go to. I don't know. We will figure out some format. Watch this space. Then we're gonna do it. Then what we need is a chef. So now we need a video production, an animator, and a chef to prepare us bites to go with these. 100%. I mean, this production cost. And then I mean some of you just ship us whiskey all day. Like we'll get this down to it's just Gavin and I sitting around all day recording ourselves having a good time.

Gavin 1:04:47

BS and everything. I love it. I love it. All right, uh, on the palette, I think that there is a um like a uh like an orange zest that showed up. Uh obviously the smoke, I think there's a ginger note.

Aaron 1:05:07

Yeah, I get the ginger more than I think I do the orange, but like when you as you say that, like I get um almost pickled ginger.

Gavin 1:05:15

Is that a thing to say? Oh, it could be. You want to pickle some ginger? You want some pickled gingers?

Aaron 1:05:22

Um like the not the bright pink stuff you get at the sushi restaurant, but when you get the white pickled ginger at the restaurant, like it tastes like it real pickled ginger.

Gavin 1:05:35

And then I think there's a base layer of wood char. So like I don't know how to do it.

Aaron 1:05:45

Yeah, no, so every time you go back, I think what I think this happens with a lot of whiskeys that when you go back you begin to realize it's more than what I put the first time, right? I wrote smokey and then you come back and you're like, ah, there's like an oaky char. There's an ashiness to it. There's an earthy peat note that comes to it. It's not just the one thing I wrote down. It's six things that I kind of just clumped together into one word. Yeah, I'm I'm with you. I like I like the reference to like oak char. It's got a bit of morning after campfire. Yeah. Right? Where it's just chunks of charcoal and ash.

Gavin 1:06:29

This is your this is your sipper as your you know you're going to smell like a campfire the next morning.

Aaron 1:06:36

You get up the next morning, you're like, I might as well make bacon out here. Like I everything I own already smells like this. Yep. Yeah. But on the on the finish, I will say I think the smoke is the more predominant aroma on the finish here than it was in Sanaig. Right? Where Seneca, I said kind of the the fruit carried a little bit more and the and the the smoke played the backseat. This I think the smoke takes the fruit. The other thing I pick up, I pick up a peppery note. Yep. There's a bite to the finish. And I don't know if it's I don't know if it's ash or like a black crack black pepper kind of thing, but uh, yeah.

Gavin 1:07:19

Uh again, again, this is this is an entree whiskey, right? You say that, and then I'm gonna say my next thing. Um, I think there's a bit of a bitterness of a dark chocolate that I get on that finish.

Aaron 1:07:37

It's not the sweet dessert, the decadent. Oh, it's the semi-sweet baking chocolate, yeah. Like the you thought you were being shifty as a kid, yeah, and got in there like, oh my lord, mom bamboo. That did that on purpose. Oh, yeah. I I don't know if I get quite that kind of sharp edge to it. Um, yeah. Tell me I'm wrong. No, no, I don't agree with you. I I I can't say you're wrong because you may absolutely be tasting that, right? Like what I'm saying is I don't get that. Well, you're wrong. All right. All right, I want to go to a number to this. But I already wrote my number down. Me too. Did you look at my notes? Oh no, I didn't. You didn't even look at your notes. You can't figure out what page you're writing on. And I'm I'm I'm appalled to think you would accuse me of such things. All right. I will say, if you had made me score this on the first sip, we'd have been in the 81, 82 range. But by the time we got to the end of this, she has pulled dead even with Sanaig at 88. Oh no, this is this is tasty, like I said, you had the sweetness on the palate from the last pour, and this bucked that so much, it took several sips through to kind of wash out the sweetness and then come back to it. And it's different time, different place. This is a whiskey for a different occasion, but this is absolutely every bit as tasty.

Gavin 1:09:15

I will disagree with you wholeheartedly. Oh jeez. Like, I just think you got this completely wrong. You're gonna go one higher than me. No, two. Oh I'm at a 90. I think this is bloody brilliant. I love it. It's delicious, it's something that leaves me wanting. Like, I in a good way, like I want to drink more. Not that I'm missing a note, I just want more of it. Oh man, I'm not gonna go around. Sorry.

Aaron 1:09:47

Chase the wheeze. Yeah, like I'm now that I've given a number, like I can go back and taint my palate with other things. Um, yeah, there's a there is such a light floral note now to the 100% Isla that I didn't catch before. Yep. And I'll be honest, the Sanaig is so much more leathery now. I I think the fruit is actually dyed just a little bit for me, and now it is straight Cavendar's or Boot Barn. Like I'm picking out a new pair of cowboy boots.

Gavin 1:10:24

New pair of Tacovas?

Aaron 1:10:25

Yeah, God, yeah, something fierce. God, that's amazing.  

Gavin 1:10:29

All right, Tacova call me. Yeah, if we're looking for sponsorship.

Aaron 1:10:34

Um, although you don't see our feet on the show, we can figure out a way around. We'll just put a pair of boots right here. Stop. All right, you can you're gonna hurt yourself. Seriously. Um I promised a second question, and I want to close with this. Yes, we often talk in our heads and we tell ourselves the story that the small boutique guys care more, they are better at it, they give it the TLC, the love and care that it needs. Are you often shocked when the big box guys win the competitions?

Gavin 1:11:14

I am, I am, I am shocked. Um, not because they don't produce something that is really good, but that the folks that are doing the craft spirit, I mean, they are obviously they're not mass producing, so they are looking at the spirit, they're they're fine-tuning it, they're navigating it, all of the fun words that you could put to whiskey, they're doing that along every step, they're not just churning through as much as they can. Um, so I do think sometimes there's a shock factor, but what I will say is there's sometimes a reason why they are selling so much, and it's because they can be so good.

Aaron 1:12:11

I know so many people who want to hate on Buffalo Trace for a variety of reasons, and I'm not saying none of it is unjustified, but yet so many people say, Well, if you only had one to drink, they often pick a Buffalo Trace product because every bottle is the same level of quality and and tastiness, and I think there is something to be said about repeating it. You can catch lightning in a bottle, right? You you can get one that just like I I don't know what we did, but we nailed it. Repeating it time and time and time again, that is a different skill set. It doesn't diminish how good the lightning in the bottle was, right? I'm not I'm not saying that, but I'm read I'm repeatedly surprised that like, oh my god, I can't believe Jack Daniels or somebody like won the whatever competition. I'm like, but you go back and look, you're like, I get it, I get it's good stuff. Now, the question I'll pose for you guys at home, and I'm curious your take. Don't have time to get into it tonight, but is the good stuff from the big guys because they're good at making it, or do you feel it's just sheer volume? You fill enough barrels, some of them are gonna be amazing. And so it really comes down to less about how good they are putting stuff into barrels and more about how good they are at recognizing how quality it is when they take it out of the barrels. So the question to be discussed amongst ourselves is the big box guys that do well, is it because they make better or they taste better? No, don't answer. It's for the glass. I don't know. I don't you're going with the Madeira, too. Yeah. I'm a we're here, right? All right, so until we see you next time. Cheers and Slante Mhath.

The Noble Dram 1:14:41

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