If Your Basement Has “Mold Curtains,” That’s Not Interior Design

Fresh paint, new lumber, clean lines—and a hidden cocktail of VOCs, particles, and lingering moisture you can’t see. We pull back the curtain on indoor air quality in new construction, explaining why tight envelopes and fast timelines often trap pollutants and create conditions where mold can take hold. From carbon dioxide buildup to particle spikes from sanding, we break down what “healthy air” really requires and why testing a brand‑new home is not overkill.

Our conversation traces a real‑world class we taught on air quality, where a single question—should we test new builds—sparked a tour through builder policies, site access restrictions, and the uncomfortable truth about developments with repeated mold issues. We talk through basement drying mistakes, dehumidifiers that get unplugged, and the unforgettable sight of “mold curtains” under stairs after multiple remediations. Then we zoom out to the rules and myths that shape decisions: the 100 square foot DIY threshold that oversimplifies risk, and the persistent misuse of ERMI and HERTSMI scores outside the strict research protocols they were designed for.

You’ll learn what to ask a builder, how to evaluate ventilation and humidity control, and which tests actually help you make smart choices: moisture mapping, targeted sampling through accredited labs, and data‑driven plans that remove sources instead of masking symptoms. We also share why some leases ban air or mold testing and how that clause signals deeper problems. If you care about clean, safe air—whether you’re buying, building, or renting—this guide arms you with practical steps and sharper questions to protect your health and your wallet.

If this conversation helped you see your home’s air in a new way, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s house‑hunting, and leave a quick review to help more people find it. Want a CE class for your office or more guidance on testing? Reach out and let’s get it on the calendar.

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Chapters

• 0:01 Scratchy Voices And Class Recap
• 0:58 What Indoor Air Quality Really Includes
• 2:01 Should You Test New Builds
• 3:21 Builder Access Limits And Red Flags
• 5:18 Mold In New Construction
• 6:18 Ad Break
• 6:50 Dehumidifiers, Power Washing, And Failures
• 7:45 “Mold Curtains” Across The Development
• 9:05 Lease Clauses Banning Testing
• 10:08 The 100 Sq Ft DIY Myth
• 11:28 ERMI And HERTSMI Debunked
• 14:23 Proper Testing, Certifications, And CE Classes
• 15:18 How To Book Classes And Get Help

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey everybody, this is Jim, and of course Laura is here for our podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Hi, honey. Your voice sounds scratchy.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Yes, Laura had a cold and then gave me the cold. But I my nose is totally clear.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Yeah, I never got that bad. But my voice got messed up, and I have no clue who I got it from.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Who knows? But my voice is a little scratchy. Laura says deep and sexy.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Yes, honey, that that's what I say.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

That's what I thought. Alright, so we did teach a class the other day. Laura taught the first half of it. I did the second half of it because voices. Her voice, yeah, her voice is starting to give out. But we don't have fevers or anything, so the belief is if you don't have a fever, you're not contagious. I don't know if that's really true or not, but I we we felt fine.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I don't think I've ever had a fever.

What Indoor Air Quality Really Includes

SPEAKER_02 0:56

No. So anyway, we taught a class. It was on air quality, which is a pretty broad subject, which is it's not just mold. It's everything. It is particles that are floating in the air. It's carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

If you have too much of that, um chemicals from manufactured stuff modeling, yeah. Radon.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

The VOCs from out eye, anything that's floating in the air. That is part of your air quality and the pollutants that could be in it. But we were talking, and then did some did one of the real estate agents were teaching a classroom? Because we're we're do we did this uh at an office. Yes. Often we teach online because it's super convenient and it's just convenient for everybody, really. But this is at an office, and was an agent that asked a question about doing air quality on new builds, or that's even necessary.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I think it was something like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

So, how'd that conversation go?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Basically, that it's very good to do air testing on new builds, but you know you're gonna come back with stuff. So the conversation got into well, how do you get rid of VOCs in a new build then? If you know that you've got them, what what do you do? So we talked a little bit about some alternatives and what they could do before somebody moves in. So that agent was actually contemplating doing something like that for um for her clients then before they move into the house when she does new builds.

Builder Access Limits And Red Flags

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yeah, because there aren't there's some things you can do. It what it depends on the builder. Well, we talk about this, but with the somebody asked, well, will the builder let you do do some of the things? You know, and this is where we really got different conversations, is we don't know whether the builder would let you or not. There are some builders, and I did some pre-drywall inspection here recently. The owner or buyer of that house was not allowed to be set foot in their new house, or what's gonna be their house, at all the entire time. They can only be there for that like two hour time slot that I'm there doing the pre-drywall, and then again at the final, they were not allowed to be there at all, which seems crazy to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I I'm sorry, I would still say no. I would walk, but that's just me. I mean, we were when we were building our house, we were literally here every week. Our builder expected it from us, like he wasn't surprised.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

No, he knew the type of work that we do, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

So he knew he he willingly volunteered himself for that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

And he did a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yes, he did.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Nothing's ever perfect, but he did a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

He did as close as you could get.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yes, yeah. It's mainly him and his son who do the work, and then they subcontract out for uh you know eight.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Like trusses and stuff like that. They needed help with the crane to pick it up.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Correct. So you know they you have to outsource some things. But the conversation regarding the new builds was like, Wow, they may not let you in there to to do any of these things. Then we end up, well, is mold even in new houses because they're not old.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

And we're like, wow, there's this whole community that we have new development that we the house we went into, it had been remediated two or three three times before it was finished, and we can still visibly see mold growth in this place.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

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SPEAKER_01 5:04

And I can't they wanted to power wash the walls in the basement because that was such a good idea to get out, you know.

Mold In New Construction

SPEAKER_02 5:13

I can understand if it's really muddy. Well, you won't wash it, but man, you need to have some good dehumidifiers in there to suck that moisture out quick. And this place, they they they would unplug the dehumidifiers when the workers came there.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

And then they'd forget to plug them back in.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Yeah. But the buyers of that house in that new development, they're like, wow, let's look at other houses in the neighborhood. Maybe they don't have the mold. No, every single house they told us had the very similar mold. And we and Laura called that mold curtains. The reason she's calling it mold curtains, if you aren't familiar with Spanish moss that you'll find on the trees in Georgia, Florida, that's what the mold looked like that was dangling on the underside of the basement stairs.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yes. So and we do have pictures to to prove that.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

So And that was after like two remediations.

Ad Break

SPEAKER_01 6:15

That was after the s yeah, because we went out. Yeah, I don't remember. Like the there there were a couple of times we were out there and we did our own testing for stuff for them, so I don't remember where it all fell.

Dehumidifiers, Power Washing, And Failures

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah, but I I know they've been remediated at least once before we went out there the first time. But well then this conversation, we got new builds we added to that thing. Well, if you have somebody who's leasing an apartment, we talk about the weird stuff that we've seen agreements that maybe a builder puts in, like, hey, you you can't be out here looking at anything until we give you the okay, which makes to me that's suspicious. I'm like, why am I not able to see what are you skipping on? What and apparently knowing, knowingly skipping on that you don't want us to see. But anyway, that took us into the conversation while there's some apartment buildings or landlords that in the agreement you agree that you are not gonna do any kind of air quality or mold testing in the place.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Danger, danger, Will Robins, danger.

“Mold Curtains” Across The Development

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Why would you put that in there? Unless you know you got a problem. Unless you're like a slum lord and you're expecting well, I don't want them testing for mold because they're gonna find mold. If you had a house that was you know it's in good shape, no mold issues, no moisture issues, you'd be like, Yeah, go ahead and test. It's gonna verify the house is in good shape. If you are telling them they cannot do mold testing, or they doing that would violate the lease, that's a problem while they know they likely have an issue. Or they've had an issue and they covered it up or they cleaned it and they're afraid it might come back.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Or they didn't clean it well because they just did it themselves.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Yeah, and I I understand landlords wanting to keep things uh cost effective for themselves. I understand that completely. But you have still have to do it correctly.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Well, and and that also got us into the conversation that the EPA says that an area 10 by 10 square feet is a do-it-yourself project.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

But how did the EPA come up with that number?

Lease Clauses Banning Testing

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah, because that has been a kind of like a standard that's kind of gone everywhere. EPA says that's a do-it-yourself project, which kind of helps it minimizes the severity of the issue, which I guess if you have a two square foot area mold, that's not you probably do not need to have a remediation company come in and take care of it. It's all gonna depend on your skill level, your tolerance for wanting to do your own labor, and maybe how allergic you are a family member is. But Laura, where did that 10 by 10 square foot moldy air, where did that even come from, and who did that appease?

SPEAKER_01 9:05

So that came from New York, and it was appeasing landlords who didn't want to have to fix things that small and hire a contractor out for it because they wouldn't have had the money to do that and it would have become expensive. So they were literally appeased when the EPA said, okay, fine, you can do it yourself up to a hundred, you know, ten by ten square foot, hundred square foot, and anything over that then. Um so it's up to a hundred and then a hundred square feet.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

A hundred square feet. So ten by ten, okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And then there's two other levels. So like up to three fifty, and then anything over three fifty. So it's like do it yourself, and then like an intermediate, and then a more you've got some issues here, and you need to definitely have somebody take care of it.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

So was was all right, so does New York State or New York City even have its own EPA?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

I'm sure I think all states do.

The 100 Sq Ft DIY Myth

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Each state has their own. I think they do. So this is probably just a New York City or New York State compromise thing to appease landlords so landlords could do mold repairs or mediation inexpensively.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah. And it's kind of just stuck across the country. Kind of like the the whole Ermie Hurts Me thing. That was an EPA thing too.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Explain Ermie and Hurts Me.

ERMI And HERTSMI Debunked

SPEAKER_01 10:32

So they are they were created by the EPA for laboratory study. And it was laboratory study of what? I'm trying to remember. So it was to study the mold load impact on some specific health condition. And I can't remember what the health condition was. But there was a very specific protocol that you had to do, and then based upon that protocol, there were like load levels that they would have, and like there were certain numbers that you would get, but you have to do that specific protocol and and do it that way to be able to use those numbers. Well, the ERMI looks at 25 mold species, the Hertzme looks at like 30 or 50 or something like that, not much of a difference. And there's like thousands upon thousands of mold species that exist that we know of. I think it's 100,000. You're literally just looking at 25 out of that, and you could have something significantly different, and it wouldn't show up.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So the army only looks at 25 different mold species.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

25 different species, and that's it. It does not look at anything other than those 25. And then on top of that, the EPA has actually come out six times that I know of off the top of my head on the internet saying this is not to be used in a residence. This was only for a laboratory study. You should not be using this to determine issues in the home. So ERMI, not a good test, not a good standard to figure out what's going on in your house. You need uh and the the ERMI tests that I have seen don't follow the standard um protocol that the EPA created to do that test. So you can't even use those numbers with that protocol because like they're taking a Swiffer wet uh one of those Swiffer thingies and just mopping it all over the floor to pick it up. You don't have, you know, like what the square footage is, you don't have any of the stuff that you were supposed to have to be able to correlate with what their chart is that that say you've got a problem you don't.

Proper Testing, Certifications, And CE Classes

SPEAKER_02 12:47

So there's no there's no standard on how they do the test. So if anybody any mold remediation or testing will say professional is wants to do an ermie, or you say it hurts me, hurts me also in your house or an apartment building. Get a new one, it is not an appropriate test according to the EPA to do the standard's not set 'cause it's the the Swiffer thing. You you could swiffer a huge room, okay, which alright face it, you got a huge ballroom, you swiffer all that with one swiffer, send it into the lab. You're gonna pick up some stuff easily, but you could do a a another swiffer in a in a little room, okay? And that that ballroom is gonna look like it's massively contaminated because all the pores picked up and say this total number in that ballroom is the total number of spores you picked up in that small room. Okay, total number, but the ballroom is like ten times the size. That ballroom, in reality, is cleaner than that small room because you but you're not gonna get that back on on the data. So do not use Ermie or HertzMe, that that may hurt their feelings, but EPA has said you guys are designed for laboratory use only, probably because there's standards and uh conditions for for study. So anyway, you maybe seriously, uh a home inspection company that does testing that follows the protocol from a uh certified lab is a great way to go. Laura is normally certified, which means you've gone through a lot of extra training, which helps make sure all of our inspectors do things correctly because if they have questions, Laura's a person to talk to. So I can't think of anything else, but if you want a class in your office, give us a call. We can definitely do that class. We have like 25 classes, maybe 26.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

I've got another uh class on decks that we're hoping that the state will approve with everything else.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Hopefully, within a few weeks, that'll be all approved, and we'll put that on. We need to schedule some more online, also.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

We do have another class coming up in that office.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Two more one in February and one in March.

How To Book Classes And Get Help

SPEAKER_02 15:14

So contact contact us if you want an office class. We can do that. So I think that's about it for this one. Uh yeah, calls for CE classes. And then if you have mold questions, indoor air quality questions, give give us a call. Thank you. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Bye, everyone.