From Anxiety to Integration: Healing the Nervous System through Heart, Body, and Spirit

In this deeply honest and compassionate conversation, Dr. Habib Boerger is joined by writer, speaker, and professor Dr. Alane Daugherty to explore the lived intersection of spirituality, somatic awareness, trauma healing, and emotional resilience.

Dr. Alane shares her personal journey through severe anxiety and emotional distress—and how meditation, Quaker spirituality, Zen practice, and somatic approaches became gateways to profound healing. Together, they reflect on why spiritual awakening and healing includes the body, why safety and trust are essential for healing trauma, and how heartfulness emerges when mind, body, and spirit are integrated.

This episode explores:

• How trauma lives in the nervous system—and how it can be gently healed
• Why somatic practices can feel overwhelming for some—and how to honor that
• The role of divine connection, safety, and compassion in embodied healing
• Heartfulness as a lived experience, not a belief system
• Simple physiological practices that support spiritual receptivity
• Why there is no single “right” entry point to healing or awakening

The conversation concludes with a guided somatic-spiritual practice led by Dr. Alane, inviting listeners into grounded presence, gentle awareness, and connection with the Sacred—however they name it.

This episode is for anyone navigating anxiety, trauma, spiritual disconnection, or the longing to feel whole again—and for those seeking a spirituality that honors the wisdom of the body and the wisdom of the heart. 

Transcript

Beyond Names: Spirituality for Anyone and Everyone

YouTube Channel: Beyond Names with Dr. Habib Boerger

YouTube handle: @BeyondNamesPodcast

Episode: 27

Host: Dr. Habib Boerger

Conversation Partner: Dr. Alane Daugherty

Title: From Anxiety to Integration: Healing the Nervous System through Heart, Body, and Spirit

Description: In this deeply honest and compassionate conversation, Dr. Habib Boerger is joined by writer, speaker, and professor Dr. Alane Daugherty to explore the lived intersection of spirituality, somatic awareness, trauma healing, and emotional resilience.

Dr. Alane shares her personal journey through severe anxiety and emotional distress—and how meditation, Quaker spirituality, Zen practice, and somatic approaches became gateways to profound healing. Together, they reflect on why spiritual awakening and healing includes the body, why safety and trust are essential for healing trauma, and how heartfulness emerges when mind, body, and spirit are integrated.

This episode explores:

• How trauma lives in the nervous system—and how it can be gently healed
• Why somatic practices can feel overwhelming for some—and how to honor that
• The role of divine connection, safety, and compassion in embodied healing
• Heartfulness as a lived experience, not a belief system
• Simple physiological practices that support spiritual receptivity
• Why there is no single “right” entry point to healing or awakening

The conversation concludes with a guided somatic-spiritual practice led by Dr. Alane, inviting listeners into grounded presence, gentle awareness, and connection with the Sacred—however they name it.

This episode is for anyone navigating anxiety, trauma, spiritual disconnection, or the longing to feel whole again—and for those seeking a spirituality that honors the wisdom of the body and the wisdom of the heart.

Transcript:

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Welcome to Beyond Names. I'm Dr. Habib. This is a space for spiritual seekers and soulful misfits, for the curious and the committed, for those grounded in a tradition, and for those who are not sure what they believe.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Whether you call the Divine God Yahweh, Allah, Elohim, Brahman, Great Spirit, higher power, or you're still searching for language that fits, you are welcome here.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Together, we'll explore the intersection of daily life and spirituality, the wisdom of many traditions, and the ways we return to our true selves, to our Source, to the light that each of us carry within.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm so glad you're here. Let's begin with introduction of our conversation partner for this episode, Dr. Alane Daugherty. Dr. Alane Daugherty is a writer, speaker, and professor. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Her work focuses on teaching people how to transform chaotic and limiting emotional patterns to ones that are self-affirming, life-enhancing, and truly transformative.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She is the author of

Unstressed: How Somatic Awareness Can Transform Your Body's Stress Response and Build Emotional Resilience,

From Mindfulness to Heartfulness: A Journey of Transformation through the Science of Embodiment,

The Power Within: From Neuroscience to Transformation

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She's also the author of several articles published in Psychology Today. She is the director of the Mind and Heart Lab at Cal Poly Pomona.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Dr. Alane is also the co-creator of the Inner Calm smartphone app.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And Dr. Alane’s passion is, if I may synthesize in this way, the intersection of neuroscience, emotional literacy, and the mind-body-heart-soul-spirit dynamic. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: To learn more about Dr. Alane and her work, please visit https://www.mindandheartlab.com/.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Dr. Alane, welcome, thank you for being here.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Very nice to be with you, Habib.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And just for…. I'll… I'll fess right up. I'm a Dr. Alane fan. Dr. Alane… 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Dr. Alane was on my dissertation committee. I have used her book, From Mindfulness to Heartfulness, quite a lot, and I… I really love the way that… that you speak about the mind and the body and bring those together with the heart and the soul. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, again, thank you so much for being here. So, if you would, would you tell us a little bit about your spiritual story as a way of letting us get to know you, and who you are, and what your journey has been, and what's important to you.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So, I can't really separate my spiritual story from also the story that brought me into somatic practice and somatic awareness.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, these two things were going on simultaneously for me in my life, is that I, at a certain point in my life, really struggled with my emotional, mental health -- anxiety.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I had extreme anxiety, bad anxiety disorders at one point.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I was really afraid I would take my own life. I didn't want to. But I was afraid.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: When you struggle with anxiety as bad as I did, you learn not to trust yourself.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I was afraid… just afraid that I would just have an impulse to… to throw myself off a bridge… 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I don't know why bridges were the worst for me, but… and it's… it feels…I want to say the word funny, it's not really funny, but it kind of feels funny to talk about it now, because it's just not a part of my life anymore. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And when I work with people a lot, I hear often, I know I'll get over it, but I just… or I know I'll never get over it, but I just want to learn to live with it, and I don't believe that. I believe that you really can move beyond anxiety and stress disorders and....

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So that was going on in my life in a huge way, and I wanted to find a way to heal.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so I threw my whole life into a journey of healing, and at that time, I was also… so it didn't directly lead me to spirituality, but then at the same time, I was kind of simultaneously searching for spirituality.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Because when I grew up, I was, you know, I was raised in a very specific, you know, pretty conservative Catholic tradition.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I got to a point where it didn't work for me, and the dogma didn't work for me in my life anymore, and so just kind of left any kind of religion, because at that time, I thought, you know, spirituality had to be religion, and the religion wasn't working for me anymore.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So it was kind of like that for a while, but then when I started really trying to find ways to emotionally heal, I was also trying to find my way back to spirituality.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I remember, you know, what do you do? What do you do when you need an answer? I went to the internet. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so I just started looking at different, you know, first of all, I started looking at different spiritual, or religious traditions that might work a little bit better for me. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, you know, then I kind of, thank goodness, went, went down the rabbit hole of all of that, and there was a… there was just a mention on that website called The Thinking Person's Guide to God.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I thought that was such a great title, and I just… it's just a really kind of short book, but it… it… it completely changed my life, because what… just because of the steps that it… it kind of…the first steps on the path that it offered me, and those steps on the path that it offered me. It was written by an Episcopal priest, and....

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But one of the things he said was that one of… even though he was an Episcopal priest, one of the most spiritual services he had ever been at was at a friend's Quaker meeting.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, you know, so again, I'm, like, going to the internet, you know, I didn't even know what, you know, what the Friends tradition was all about, and found out that there was a Friend's meeting house about a block away from where I lived.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so I went, to that service, and that the Friends meeting is… there's not a leader, you know, and everybody kind of sits in the middle, and it's basically a meditation session, unless somebody really feels moved by the Spirit, but you really need to feel moved by the Spirit to stand up and speak, and…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So, you know, I had no idea what to expect, and I went in to this service, and and this 80-year-old woman stood up and started talking about God as a female, and I just… I just started bawling. I thought, okay, I'm home.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But that…that started a meditation practice for me.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And at the same week… during the same week, I decided that I was going to… because I just didn't… I was… this was at the very beginning of my journey. I had no idea where I was going. I was just following whatever showed up. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, there was another…there was a Zen group that met in town.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And one of my friends was going, and she told me about it. I thought, oh, that sounds really interesting. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So I went to the Zen group, and it's funny, because it was, it was in the same…the Zen group actually rented out the Quaker Meeting House. It was in the same building.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, one of the gentlemen that ran… the man that ran the Zen group was also really a mainstay in the Quaker meeting.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmmm.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, and he… his whole life was changed through meditation practices and… and things like that, so he just offered this Zen group, and so I go… I just threw myself in a boat, so I go to this Zen group on Monday… Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then I go to the Quaker meeting on Sunday, and it was in the same place, and I just… I just really… my life is before and after, just really soaking into the meditation practice there.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So, the Zen group really got me deep into my practice.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: What the… but it… it lacked… I needed some real strong spirituality into it… with it, and then the Quaker meeting really kind of helped me recognize that, for me, it was all about a spiritual practice. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't just an awareness practice, it was a real spiritual practice.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And… and so then I just went all kinds of places from there. And also, at the time, I was still working on really healing all the emotional, but that stuff just started to heal itself. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, and at the time, also, I, you know, I felt like I had gone through this real journey, and I'd really figured out… not figured out how to heal, but for me, gone on a process that was really effective in emotional healing.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And at the time, also, you know, for a long time, I had wanted to go back to school, because I was on, you know, I got my master's degree in exercise science, so my life was really about what physical health and wellness was, and… but inside, I was falling apart, and…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, and that was one of the reasons I didn't… I felt like I couldn't tell anybody how much I was struggling emotionally, mentally, because on the outside, I was, like, this epitome of health.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I was teaching health and fitness all day long, and you know, so when I started going into that spiritual journey, it was a whole… it was an all-consuming, it wasn't just spiritual, it was emotional, it was mental, it was… it was just this whole process of what it looked like to heal, but spirituality was at the center of all of that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmmm.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then at that time, it was just a time and place where, you know, convergence of different disciplines were coming together, and that was when, you know, it just really exploded around the neuroscience, around spirituality, and all of a sudden, it was like I was understanding all of this stuff, you know, because I was so… always so passionate about the body and what the body did, but then when I could relate it to my spirituality, so that's when I went back to school, and and got my PhD all focused in, you know, in what it mind-body healing looks like, and in relationship to spirituality and contemplative practice.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so it all kind of came together, but it was a real personal experience for me before it was an academic experience, for sure.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I think that's really important to say, especially when I'm teaching, because I want my students to know it's a lived experience for me, even more than it's an academic knowledge experience. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: That came, and that came in, you know, in major degrees later, but it was really a personal experience of, of healing, but yeah, it just… it… you know, for me, I can't separate, I can't separate the emotional healing from the spirituality. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I can't separate it from how to access that in the body. For me, it's just… it's one whole kind of…you know, condensed ball of integration of all of this stuff, so…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I love to hear that you can't separate it, and you use the word integration.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And just to give you a background, and I'm sure the listeners have heard me say this before, but part of my desire in having this podcast is that I feel like, collectively, we're in need of a spiritual awakening.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And… for me, the… the centrality of heartfulness as part of that awakening, that… that we can't really, truly awaken our consciousness if we're not in integration of heart, mind, body, and soul. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So if we're leaving out our spiritual heart, or our soul, whichever language you use in your tradition, then we're missing tremendously. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And in so many times, whether it's the news, or whether it's from the pulpit, or from the minbar (pulpit), I hear stuff that is the epitome of, of narrowness and the absolute opposite of heartfulness.

Dr. Habīb Boerger:. And… and it… it's like, I feel like my heart breaks a little bit every, every time I hear that, and I just am challenged by being, of remaining heartful in myself in the face of it, in the face of a lack of heartfulness in others, and yet… and yet this is so much what I feel like is part of what is ours to do today, is to invite others to awaken to a deeper, a deeper level of awareness is not simply about mind knowing, it's not simply about outer awareness, but is an inner awareness that includes heartfulness, and the soul, and the spirit. So…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, it is a whole integrated way of being, you know.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And what I love about it is we can even see that in… in the body, you know? We can see that when we're integrated, we're more available, we're more connected…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And whether it's connected to other people, or connected to the divine, or whatever kind of sacred reality somebody believes in or subscribes to, or lives, or experiences, that is facilitated when it's an experience more than a cognitive belief.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And… or at that least, that's what I believe. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, and so I think that really talking about it and looking at it that way, we can actually facilitate ways of being in the world that make us more receptive to that experience, but also make us more receptive to developing the capacity even more.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And it isn't, you know, from my perspective, it's not about a cognitive belief system, it's not about subscribing to a specific dogma where we just, you know, do this and this and this, and it's all kind of an external focus, right? 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's really a lived experience, and how do we, how do we cultivate that lived experience through both our spirituality, and through our daily practices, and through the way we love each other, and… yeah. So, for me, it's just all connected in that way.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And me, personally, way, way less about a dogma or a belief system than just a way of being in the world.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, how do you…how do you most access your sense of connection to the sacred, and how do you most support yourself in this integration of mind, body, heart, soul?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Oh, boy, that's a… that's a hard question to answer, and the only reason why it's a hard question to answer is I don't…for me, it's just a total embodied experience.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I can tell in my own whole mind-body complex, you know, when I say the word body, I'm not talking about the thing that walks us around from our shoulders to our toes. I'm talking about this whole human system that we live in.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And for me, I… I can just feel it.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I mean, I can feel when I'm in the spaces where I'm really connected to the sacred, and I can feel things that lead me to that, and things that lead me away from that. And I definitely need practices, I need, you know, meditation, I need certain types of practices that get me into that space.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Certain intentionalities of really being connected to other people, really feeling that sense of connectedness, but also that sense of loving support, that sense of compassion.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: For me, those are all lived experiences, and it's so… I mean, it's… it's easy to explain to me… for me to explain, kind of, that that's a lived experience, but…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I'm not sure how to share that with other people that don't know that, that don't have that experience if that makes sense.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But I think for me, like I said, there are certain practices… it's like you know it when you feel it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: ... inching my way into certain practices where I really feel that divine, I really feel that shift, I really feel that sacred presence, I feel… I feel the sacred presence when I'm connecting with somebody else, when I'm sitting with somebody else, when I'm hearing their story. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: To me, it's not… it's not a head practice. In fact, the more it becomes a head practice, the more I know I'm shifting out of it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: All of… all of that is just such an embodied way for me to be in the world, and....

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, you know, it's kind of both and, because it's such an embodied way of being in the world, sometimes it's hard to articulate.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes, sometimes it is hard to articulate. As you were saying, oh, that's a hard question, I was like -- How would I answer that question?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm trying to, like, simultaneously listen to you, and then ask myself, well, is that… would I say the same thing that she's saying? Would I say that I can just feel it? 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And… and it's interesting, I think that there are aspects, for example, There are times where…like, I think in Christianity, the term felt presence is used, but there's times where you… or… 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: In some traditions, it might be called, like, an insight, like a, like a divine insight, or a revelation, or an experience of felt presence, or… like…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: when I have those moments, like, I say something, or I'm in a teaching moment, or a healing session, and you just feel that, that it's not you, that the you is not there, that it is something that is way beyond you. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Like, those are the experiences that you feel in the body, because, I kind of describe them as, like, those tingly moments, or, you know, I don't know that my hair is standing up on end, but there is this something that is happening in both the body and not… not the physical by… in body. In that case, I was talking about the… the flesh and bone and body, but, you know, something happened there, but that also happened beyond that. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: But then, in other… when I have had… For example, an experience when I was doing a 40-day retreat. And so, obviously, there is a lot of devoted spiritual practice, morning and night.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I had this experience of awareness of the physical body, but then awareness of what I would call the energetic body.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then awareness of, like, the borders softening, as if, as if this wasn't actually a border, like, as if it was softer than it appears, and then as… what beyond that is the energetic body, and as if that was softer than it appears, and it was like these increasing layers of subtlety for lack of… like you said, it's hard to put words to, right?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's a palpable… for me, it's a palpable experience, and so the way I make myself more spiritually available is to do those things that invite or make me more receptive to being in a state to kind of accept those palpable experiences.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, because you can't do that when you're stressed out, when you're anxious, when you're worried, when you're all tight, you know, it just doesn't allow you as much to go there. Not that you can’t, but, you know, it's just not…. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But… but yeah, like you were saying, because I… it's so funny, because I was going to… right at the end of what I was saying before you went into that, I was just going to say, it feels like when you really get into those spaces, that the… there… there is no division, there is no kind of where I end, right?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: The body feels like it's just going on and really connecting to all those places around. You know, not that that happens every moment of every day, but that certainly is… 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: No.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, that certainly is, can be a place of those really deep, deep spaces where it just begins to, yeah, just the borders begin to disappear.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I like… there's a man called, his name is Reggie Ray, who does a lot of, Buddhist, somatic tradition of Buddhism, and very, very, very deep, and, you know, he has a couple books called Somatic Descent, and he… and I can't remember the other… the name of the other one that I just ate up, but he even talks about that, how, you know, you get so much into your soma… you know, because soma is like your body lived from the inside out.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so, when you do somatic practices, you're actually training your system to be able to live from that system from the inside out, you know? And so his whole… whole philosophy is that, is the more that you really train your soma to have those experiences, the more division… the more the borders of your body begin to disappear and you just are more able to live from those spaces. So…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And it requires awareness.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's not so easy to walk through the world with the borders like this, because there is light, and there is dark, and we have to walk with that awareness as we move through our everyday lives. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, two questions that immediately come to mind in relation to what you just said was, you… I'm not sure if I'm going to get the exact phrasing, but -- invitation to receptivity, or the invitation to… you said something along the lines of doing what makes you receptive to those spaces where you experience this integration or this connection. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right. Right. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So I'm hoping that you will give us examples of what you do that helps you encourage that receptivity within yourself.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, so, so for me, certain meditation practices are for sure the foundation of that, but a lot of the meditation practices that I do are, they are body-based practices, because so much of… so much of the time, our body is…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's just, you know, when it's…it can be in spaces where it's harder to let that receptivity in.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so a lot of the practices that I do are somatic-based practices, where we'll really go use certain parts of the body that if you can really begin to relax those parts of the body, then it helps, it helps the resistance calm down.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so it just kind of helps us physiologically get into a deeper space, so then the receptive… receptivity just kind of then inviting in whatever kind of sacred experience.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, I'm really big on the idea of experience, not just a thought, but really, I kind of invite in that spirit… experience of the sacred. But like I said, there's things that we can do physically that are going to make us more open to that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: What can we do physically to make us more open to that?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Well, there… there's just certain… and this is where my, like, the neuroscience stuff comes in. There's certain, nervous system, you know, we have… we have… there's certain things that we can do with our nervous system and our physicality that will just automatically calm our body down.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, the… just the… the… all the muscles around the eyes, our facial muscles, you know, a gentle smile, all of those stuff, all of those physiological postures are connected to the deepest part of our brain and our emotional system that just helps it just calm down, and with the calming then, then we can be receptive to a new experience. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I don't, you know, because then I wish I, you know, when I teach this, I'll, like, show an iceberg, right?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And when we talk about the science, it's not… it's not like… it's just like the tip of the iceberg. We can explain it through the science, but that's not, you know, what's going on is just such a much, much, much larger spiritual word, experience, present, capacity, but we know through the science that there are things that we can do to be able to then, like, calm our systems where we really can then inhabit a different kind of experience.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: For example, I think one of the things that I remember you saying, along with the relaxing around the eyes and relaxing the face and the gentle smile, another example I believe you provided is simply to lengthen the exhale longer than the inhale.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: These are the kinds of things that you're referring to.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right, right, so it's just really simple things that we can do physiologically, but it just… it just… it's like, you know, it's like opening the door and being able to kind of… or widen the door so we can allow that spiritual experience to be a deeper, deeper experience for us.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I have a question around…. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, a lot of folks, and I'm one of these, have a lot of trouble with somatic practices, because they -- 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, I'll just speak for myself, rather, but I know I'm not alone on this, but I will speak for myself. Like, when it comes to healing modalities, somatic practices, somatic practitioners, like, I feel like I'm the problem child, so to speak, because if the body point is the entry, I'm like… I'm… I… old patterns of constriction and spasms… I did a practice the other day, and the person started it, leading it through the body, and so for the entire practice, I was dealing with spasms, because that's, my body has an old trauma response pattern that is still, is still there, despite a lot of… a lot… a lot of work. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And if I'm doing, for example, internal family systems therapy work, and it's, like, looking at a part, if I am going to do that, it's automatically that my system goes into constriction, my system says, not no, but heck no, we are not going there.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I totally get that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so for me, like, the… what I have found healing is focusing on my connection, which for me is the connection to Allah, and opening to receive that sense of, basically, intimacy with the Divine, and love from the Divine, and light from the Divine, and the mercy, and the compassion, and the peace that comes from the Divine. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, for me, my entry point is I have to have a sense of connecting to the Divine, and then somehow bring that, that sense of strength, alignment, light, whatever descriptors you want to use, and invite this to hold this other, this other pattern, or this other trauma residual, or etc., etc., etc.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, my question is, do you have any specific suggestions for people who are similarly triggered by body practices?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Because there are, there are a lot of folks that, really, their entry point is the body but there are other folks whose entry point is absolutely not the bod. And if you start in that way, then it just makes it so much more difficult, so I was just wondering if you have any suggestions around…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, I… so, trauma gets wired in our body, you know? Trauma gets wired in our body because we didn't have… we weren't able to have the completion of the traumatic experience.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Meaning that, not that the experience didn't complete, but our nervous system didn't have a chance to be able to get back to regulation, right, so our nervous system gets challenged.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, this happens all, you know, every day. Our nervous system gets challenged, we get back to calm. Nervous system ... you know.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: When we have trauma, especially bigger traumas in our life, it gets wired in our nervous system. Your nervous system is trying to protect itself. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so, for a lot of people, somatic work is… really, I don't know what word I want to use here. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's… It is a hard entry point.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And at the same time I think it's still really an imp… important avenue to explore because it is still trapped in your nervous system.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But you need to do it at a… at a level that isn't… because what happens is if it's too scary, if it feels too invasive, it's just… you're just going to get blocked again, right? It's too much.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And so, and so, you know, one of the trainings I went through is through somatic experiencing, and they're really big on that. It's just, you just go a little bit at a time. You go a little bit at a time, right?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Because if you overstep those bounds, your body's going to resist, and then you're just getting the resistance re… you know, recalibrated in your system.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So, even… even with some modalities like IFS [Internal Family Systems therapy] or something like that, it still can feel too much, right? So it's just, you know, one of the things that somatic experiencing really does is inch, come back, reground yourself.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, if something feels uncomfortable, come back and reground yourself. So they're always working between inching the way into being able to, you know, heal the body, or use the body as an entry point, or, you know, however you want to term that, but always coming back and regrounding, always coming back and regrounding, you know, what…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And whether it's looking at something externally that really grounds you and calms you, or coming back to a memory that really grounds you and calms you, but it's all done in relationship to the nervous system.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right, so we're just paying attention to the nervous system. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Let's… does that feel too much? Okay, we're going to back up a little bit, you know, it's because I think some somatic practices, yeah, we're going to go in through the body, and we're going to do this try, and people… some people's nervous systems aren't… aren't… I don't want to say aren't designed for that, but have past experiences that aren't going to be open to that.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And it doesn't mean you never will, it just means you got to go really slow. You got to go really, really, really slow, and to be able to… because what you're trying to do is you're trying to re-pattern your nervous system so then it can be more available, right?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But if you do it where it's resisting, that's not going to work.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So it's just… it's this constant, just kind of, we're going to inch, and then we're going to come back and ground you. We're going to inch, we're going to come back and ground you, you know, which I just… 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I really appreciate, the way, especially somatic experiencing does that, because their, their, their whole, their whole program is based on, you just go slow. You go slow, you pull back, you ground, you, you know, all this kind of stuff, because we really are working specifically with your nervous system. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So let's just come back, let's, you know, let's… how does that feel? How does that land? You know, so it's not… it's not expecting somebody to go there into these somatic practices that doesn't feel comfortable.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's also not saying, okay, well, these aren't for you. It's just, like, you're always checking in. How does that land with you? Does that feel constricting? Okay, so let's back up, and let's do something else. You know what I mean? It's just…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's constantly being aware of that and being aware of how your nervous system is reacting, and, you know, and honoring that. Right?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Honoring… most of the time, we don't get that, right? We don't honor the constriction.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: We just say, okay, that… well, that's not going to work for you, or let's try something else, or there's something wrong with you because you can't do it this way, and that's… that's not… we want to honor what's going on with your nervous system.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And at the same time, do what we can to begin to be able to heal it, but meeting it where it is is the very first step. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And I think that's one of the things that I've really most recently really been focused and aware of, you know, because just recently I've thrown myself into all these, trainings around trauma, but… but somatic approaches to trauma, and… and, you know, that's the very first piece, is we got to… we got to meet somebody's body and nervous system where it is.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Not make it wrong, not make anything, you know, and let's just really honor that.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And let's find something a little bit that feels good, you know? And then if it feels too much… and we always… and it's not from a brain space, it's not from a, you know, tell me… tell me, right? It's just, what's going on in your body right now? 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And like you've said, well, I get really constricted, okay. Totally understand it, I get that. Let's just back up, and let's try to… you know what I mean? 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So it's just always this inching in of being able to kind of…slowly inch in, and then slowly be able to resolve. Just tiny bits at a time, you know, that kind of resolution of that trauma in your nervous… because that's where it is, right? The event's over. Where it is is wired in your nervous system, but to say that it's wrong when it's responding that way isn't…you know, that's not helpful, it's not the truth, it's just like, you know, what are the small steps that we can take to be able to inch our way in?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's not easy. I have made progress, and I've got a ways to go. And what I have found is that it's almost a matter of -- again, I'm going to say, you know, as a Muslim Sufi, for me, I'm going to use the name Allah, the divine name Allah. It's almost as if my focus is not on Allah, then there's some level where my body starts shutting down.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, and so anytime when I've done somatic experiencing work, and I'm being asked to look at what's going on in my body, it's like my body's like, yeah, no....

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And honor that, you know what I mean? I… I'm just for… I'm all for honoring that.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I don't need to go, you know what I mean? So let's take a couple of deep breaths and focus on Allah, and then… and see, does that calm your system down?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It sounds like it does.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right? So then let's just do a little bit more… you know what I mean? It's like, it's really…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's like… it's like I have experienced this in terms of… in many different manifestations, but in terms of health challenges, in terms of chronic pain, it's my… what buoys me and sustains me is my connection to God.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I couldn't get through it otherwise.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, so, and… and there has been a tremendous amount of movement. I've come a very long ways, and I’ve still got some stuff going on in my nervous system.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right, oh yeah, absolutely. And if I was working with somebody, and that was their experience, first and foremost, I'd say, okay, so let's just… we're not going to go in through the body, we're going to go through that experience, your experience of Allah, and let's just inch, you know, how does that feel now? Does that feel okay? Does that… you know what I mean? 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's just…you got to meet somebody's nervous system where it is, and not push. It's not like, I'm going to meet you where you are and then push. No, it's like, you know, we're just going to, you know, hold your hand and… and… and have Allah lead, right? We're going to… we're going to… we're just going to…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, it's… it's just a whole different process, because that's… that's trauma.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Your nervous system is trying to protect you, and and that's a beautiful.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, if we talk about any… any more… I'm going to get really emotional. So, because I'm… my emotions are starting to come up a lot. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, because, of course, my awareness of my… as we're having this conversation, my own awareness, how can I not be more aware of what's going on in my body in the moment, so… in the moment, I got a lot going on in my body.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And the emotions… the emotions are coming.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: What I would say is, you know, if it feels flooding.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Let's do something to ground you right now.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, that's what I was going to suggest, was this is a perfect opportunity for you to lead us in a practice.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I mean, because, you know, there's, like....

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, we… we don't… there's… there's tearing up to release, which is always a good thing.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But then there's always… there's also tearing up because there's just too much. And so to be able to kind of really discern that, and then if it's too much, just pull you back, way back, get you grounded, get you in that space where you're really in that experiential space of Allah, or whatever other divine, sacred source kind of, makes… makes themselves available to you.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, let's step back from me as an example.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Okay, sorry.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You started it!

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I know, I totally did.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I accept responsibility for that. And I want this episode to be something that the widest number of listeners can get something out of. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, with that said, would you be willing to lead us in a little something to help us integrate our emotional, physical, spiritual experience, and…?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Sure.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: How, how, how, how many minutes we got? What time were we talking about?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I have no idea. Oh, let's just....

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Whatever, whatever feels comfortable, because I can… I can do it from 2 minutes to 20 minutes, 25 minutes, it's just…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: How about somewhere in between? Maybe, say, in the 5 to 10 minute range?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Okay, that works.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay, great.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Okay, so I hope nobody's listening to this while they're driving.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So just to… just to start, just make sure that you are in a really… just notice where your body wants to be right now.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Just notice, you know, kind of where your comfort would be most facilitated. If you need to move, you don't, you know, just….

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Then just take a few really releasing breaths.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And on the out-breath, just physically feel the sensation of release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So you're releasing the tension and stress through your whole body as you… let the air out.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: If it works, add in an audible sigh.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Are you just letting the air go out. If you can add in a little bit of vocalization, that'll help too, but you don't need to if that doesn't feel comfortable.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So just physically feel the sensation of release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Just physically feel the sensation of release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: If it feels comfortable… slow down the out-breath just a little bit longer than the in-breath.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So you don't want to control the breath too much, it's a very comfortable… very natural breath.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But if it feels comfortable, just slow down the out-breath just a little bit longer.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And as you do so, just feel yourself getting a little heavier on whatever surface is supporting you, trusting that surface to support you.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So you're letting go of the tension and stress through your body, and as you are relying less on your tension and stress to keep you upright, you can just feel yourself melting into that surface beneath you.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Aaahh, and then just let your awareness and your breath meet at a focal point that feels comfortable for you, somewhere in your torso.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And immerse yourself in the experience of breathing.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Aahh… And then keep some of your awareness on that breathing pattern, but now bring your awareness to your eyes.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And release all the tiny little muscles, all the tension around your eyes.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And as you do so, just feel the sensation of release through your body.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then release all the tiny little muscles all through your face as if you're losing your expression on your face.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And just feel the sensation of release through your body.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then release any tightness or tension through your shoulders.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Again, physically feeling the sensation of release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then keep your awareness somewhere in the background on that breathing pattern.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But we're also going to bring some awareness to your toes and just release tightness or tension all around your toes, especially where your toes meet your feet.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: We carry a lot of stress and tension there, and we don't even realize it.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then release through the rest of your foot.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Imagine as if you're breathing in and out of every pore on your skin.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Now from your ankles to your toes.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then release all the tension all through your lower leg.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And again, add in as if you're breathing in and out of every pore, now from your knees to your toes.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And now bring your awareness to your upper leg, so your thigh, the front of the thigh, back of the thigh, and just release any kind of tension or stress all through the muscles there.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then adding in as if you were breathing in and out of every pore of your skin, now all the way from your hips to your toes.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Now adding in your torso.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So all the muscles on the outside, all your internal organs, just bring in awareness, and then release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Physically feeling the sensation of release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And now from your shoulders down to your fingertips, simultaneously, down each arm.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Physically feel the sensation of release.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And now adding in from your shoulders to your toes, as if you're breathing in and out of every pore on your skin.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Now imagine a wave of relaxation coming up the back of your neck.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And releasing through all the muscles in the back of the neck.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Then, like, a cap beginning to unfold and encircle around the top of your head, around the side of your head, and you can feel yourself just letting go of the tension and stress that you typically carry there.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And just feel it releasing on every out breath.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And now, as if, a curtain is coming down, a curtain of relaxation down through your forehead, through the sockets of your eyes, and down again through your face, and around your jaw, and down into your throat.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, down into your heart, and just release and breathe.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And now, if it feels comfortable to do so bring in a Divine or sacred presence.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And really feel the connection or experience.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Let's bring in the experience of what the connection with that divine figure feels like.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Deeply feel that connection.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: If the presence has… presents as a face for you, just imagine that face gazing at you and imagine their eyes expressing love and compassion for you.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Imagine a gentle smile.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Imagine their voice.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And if it feels comfortable for you to do so, cultivate a tiny little smile.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Just physically feel the sensation of release on the out-breath.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But also as if you're trying to soak up the experience in every cell of your body on the in-breath.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And as you soak up the connection, or the experience of connection with this presence, presence feel like it's being absorbed in every cell of your body -- as if you're trying to make a cellular memory, or cement the experience in every cell of your body.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Now, without coming out of the practice, just bring a little awareness to yourself in the practice.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: In other words, now it's almost as if you're observing yourself deep in the state of presence.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Notice if any intuitive insights come up or notice any sensations, knowings.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: May not be in words.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then just a little more awareness to your experience.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Again, notice… noticing if any insights or any knowings.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then just bring a little more awareness to how you're feeling.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: If there's anything that came up for you that you really want to take from the practice, just take note of it.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And then bring a little more awareness, feel your fingers and your toes, and reground yourself in your space. Move your arms and your legs.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Another deep breath, and then if it… and when it feels comfortable, bringing your awareness back to your… the space that you're in, and fully back inhabiting your body.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Aaahhh.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Thank you.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, you're welcome.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So… I thought, well, you know, I do want my offerings in each episode to be of greatest benefit possible. And there are….

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so, of course, I wanted you to lead a practice in a general way that wasn't specific to me.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then I thought, well, people can benefit from my experience as well. So…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, if I was working with you individually, I would probably just see how it feels, and I might do it in the opposite.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I might really get into that space of inviting in, you know, divine presence for you first, so it feels like a comfortable space.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But I think that would really kind of depend on what I was picking up from your physiology.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah, it's so great that you said that, that if you were working with me, that you would probably start with inviting the Divine Presence first. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I realized while we were doing the practice, oh, what I do is I start with just a few breaths, you know, and setting the intention to ground the body and settle the mind through grounding the body, and then I go to the heart right away, and bringing in remembrance of the divine, of the sacred, to the heart space very quickly is how I tend to lead practices.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And what I noticed was, with staying with awareness of the breath, really brings you into the body, and so then my system automatically goes, this is too much.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I, like, my awareness of all the places of pain starts ratcheting up, I start having involuntary twitching that I can't control, and it just keeps going. It keeps going and keeps going through the entire practice.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, what I was… what I experimented with was bringing together… there's a practice that I do called Remembrance of the Breath.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And that's bringing together one of the sayings in my tradition, which is la ilaha ilallah, there is no God but God.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so, on the exhale, it's la ilaha, there is no god, little g. And on the inhale, it's like saying, only the divine, only God, capital G, only the love, only the light, only goodness, so it's the inhale of the… excuse me, it's the exhale of the otherness and the inhale of the divine light, the divine love with ilallah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so what I started doing while you were leading that practice was bringing my remembrance of the breath together with the breath in the practice and trying to work with the involuntary twitching that starts when I… when I bring my focus…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: If I just start to try to bring awareness to my breath and even try to exhale so that is inviting a deeper breath, then the twitching starts.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so then I… what I was doing was pairing… pushing the, the experience of -- for me, that twitching comes from my right leg, a pattern of trying to pull that right leg up in front of me to be between me and….

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And… to push away.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so I practiced pairing that, okay, what I'm going to do when I'm on the inhale, only God, on the inhale, I'm just going to allow.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So the twitching, just… I just allow the twitching, I allow the pain, I just allow everything, and not try and do….

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then on the exhale, I was ... I was experimenting with, like, let me… let my leg make that movement of pushing.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so I just went back and forth between the exhale, letting my leg make that movement of pushing, on the inhale, only God, only Allah, only the divine love, and just allowing… just allowing.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So that's… that's what… how I… how I worked with it in… in the practice if, if that….

Dr. Alane Daugherty: This is so interesting because, you know, how I would work with somebody individually is very different than how I would work with a group.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: But I would also… because some people…you know, people always ask me, why do you start with the feet and go up rather than start with the head and go down?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Some people, because they're afraid to get, you know, you're really comfortable with the sacred space and being in that heart space, but not so much with the body space. There's other people that are the opposite, right? That you tell them to go into the heart, you tell… and it's this big, you know, so…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: No way, that's too much pain there, there's too much emotion there, there's too much…. I know, I know.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: That's why I always start with the feet, because if you start with the head and go down, it gets too close to, you know, so I want people to really get into that… to the relaxed space, so by the time we get up to the heart, and by the time we get up to the torso, people are more relaxed and open.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So it's just interesting, because everybody's system is different. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I would also, you know, if…again, you know, the individual thing, I would encourage, you know, you to experience the twitching, and bring… if your leg wants to come up, bring up your leg.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Somehow that got thwarted, right? That's what your system wants to do to complete that movement, you know, and I would actually encourage that.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Not to re-traumatize, but then re-stabilize you, and you know what I mean? It's not… there's that fine line of being able to do what your body wants to do, but then letting it know it's okay, it's in the here and now.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: You know, it's okay, we're just going to reground you, and we're going to, you know, we're going to let that movement work through, but then we're going to ground you back, you know? So it's… yeah, so it's just interesting. It's just…

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Yeah, all the different ways that it can be… different practices can be used.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, my takeaway from that is that we just need to really listen to ourselves and honor ourselves, and if our entry point and our comfort zone is the heart, great, listen and honor that. If our entry zone and comfort zone is the body, great, listen and honor that. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Just honor your experience, and… and part of the experience is that there's a certain level of trust.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And for me, that trust comes from my connection to the Divine.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And… and… and… part of trust is safety.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Right.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And part of what creates… there are some real physiological things that creates feelings of safety.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: One of them, you know, eyes, sound, you know, verbalization, all of this stuff, you know, here, you know, I think, as you've heard me talk, is associated with the vagal nerve that really creates feelings of safety.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So when I had you experience the Divine, that was my purpose. Imagine the smile, imagine the eyes, imagine them saying something to you, right? Because that's the safety system. So when I was going back to, if I were working with you individually, I would start with the safety system.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I would absolutely start with that safety system, so you… it's not just…your experience of the Divine that also… that gets you that feeling of trust, but also really intentionally engaging the physiological system of safety...

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. 

Dr. Alane Daugherty: ...if that makes sense. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I think that's probably why the elongation of the name, that chanting practice that I did before we started recording, why I find that so valuable, because it… there's a vibrational energy that comes into the heart and the body, and it changes the breath.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Like, when you're doing that chanting practice, you're automatically, I believe, probably exhaling longer than you're inhaling. So, that chanting practice brings in the… an integration of body. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It brings in an integration of the safety that you're, the safety system that you're talking about, because it slows things down, because it does bring a certain thing that's happening with this part of the body [gesturing to the torso].

Dr. Alane Daugherty: Right.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: And, and, you're also bringing in the safety system. Part of the safety system is sound. Part of the safety system is vocalization.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So, you know, I mean, which is amazing, you know, here it is, our neuroscience again, validating what our spiritual traditions have known forever, right? So that… I was thinking when you were doing that chanting, that absolutely engages, we call the social engagement system, but that absolutely engages that… that system of safety.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: So, in those chants that you do, you are engaging, it's not… it's… it is the breath and you're also engaging the physiological system of safety for you.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, just so everyone knows, not just… not just you and me.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, the chanting I was doing at the beginning is called the elongation of the name, and it's the same phrase that I do with what I call the remembrance of the breath, la ilaha ilallah which means there is no god, little g, but God, capital G.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And it's saying that there's one divine, so that you may refer to the divine with a different name, but there is one ultimate reality, is the meaning of this… of this sentence.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then, beyond the… the more esoteric meaning is really that there is only One -- that… that multiplicity serves the purpose of bringing us to unity. But in truth, in reality, capital R, Reality, there is only One.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So… So that's what I was doing, and just to give you a sense of what that's like, it's…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Lā ilaha illa-llāāāāāh, Lā ilaha illa-llāāāāāh, Lā ilaha illa-llāāāāāh.

Dr. Alane Daugherty: I could just feel that vibrating through my body.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It totally shifts how I feel in heart and body.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, thank you so much for doing this. Any final words of wisdom? Any takeaways you want to leave with…?

Dr. Alane Daugherty: It's always a treat to be in your presence.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Likewise, likewise, likewise. Well, thank you to all listeners for joining us on Beyond Names. Before we go, briefly, if you would please take one short breath to pause, or a long breath, maybe a long one, to reflect for a moment on anything that stays with you from this conversation.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: My takeaway is -- to bring together listening to the heart and listening to the body.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: May something you heard today help you reconnect with the light in your own heart. May you grow in compassion, clarity, and courage. May you find your way again and again, back home to the Divine, back home to the sacred, however you name it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: If today's conversation spoke to you, please like, share, and comment on this episode, and please follow Beyond Names.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: To make an appointment with me, please visit https://www.habibboerger.com/. Until next time, may you be light, may you consciously participate in growing your light, and may you share your light.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Peace be with you.