From Suicidal Ideation to Love & Light: Gina Cavalier's Journey of Healing

What does it take to move from despair to hope, from self-harm to self-love, from merely surviving to truly living?

In this deeply personal and compassionate conversation, Dr. Habib sits down with entrepreneur, author, filmmaker, and sustainability advocate Gina Cavalier to explore her remarkable journey through childhood trauma, years of suicidal ideation, and the spiritual awakening that transformed her life.

Gina shares how experiences of neglect, abuse, and profound loneliness shaped her early years, and how a crisis point eventually led her to embark on an intensive spiritual search. Drawing wisdom from multiple traditions and practices, she discovered tools that helped her reconnect with love, light, purpose, and what she describes as the soul's innate connection to Source.

Together, Habib and Gina explore the relationship between spirituality and healing, the importance of having a personal toolkit of grounding practices, the power of service, forgiveness, and community, and the need to create spaces where difficult conversations about mental health can happen without shame or stigma.

The conversation also highlights surprising resonances between Gina's experiences and Habib's Sufi understanding of the soul, heart, and Divine light, revealing how wisdom can emerge across traditions when we listen deeply.

Whether you have struggled personally with despair, love someone who has, or simply seek a deeper understanding of healing and spiritual growth, this episode offers encouragement, practical insights, and a powerful reminder that transformation is possible.

In this episode:

• Gina's journey from suicidal ideation to spiritual healing 
• The role of spirituality in recovery and resilience 
• Building a personal toolkit for emotional and spiritual well-being 
• Service, compassion, and reconnecting with meaning 
• The relationship between soul, spirit, and inner light 
• Creating safe spaces for honest conversations about mental health 
• Why returning to love may be one of the most important spiritual practices of all 

"You are the joy that nothing else is." — Gina Cavalier

If this conversation resonates with you, please like, subscribe, share, and leave a review to help others discover the podcast.

If you or someone you know is experiencing thoughts of self-harm or suicide, please call 988, text 988, chat online at https://988lifeline.org/, or contact local emergency services or a crisis support line in your area immediately. You do not have to face those struggles alone. 

Transcript

Beyond Names: Spirituality for Anyone and Everyone

YouTube Channel: Beyond Names with Dr. Habib Boerger

YouTube handle: @BeyondNamesPodcast

Episode: 48

Host: Dr. Habib Boerger

Conversation Partner: Gina Cavalier

Title: From Suicidal Ideation to Love & Light: Gina Cavalier's Journey of Healing

Description: What does it take to move from despair to hope, from self-harm to self-love, from merely surviving to truly living?

In this deeply personal and compassionate conversation, Dr. Habib sits down with entrepreneur, author, filmmaker, and sustainability advocate Gina Cavalier to explore her remarkable journey through childhood trauma, years of suicidal ideation, and the spiritual awakening that transformed her life.

Gina shares how experiences of neglect, abuse, and profound loneliness shaped her early years, and how a crisis point eventually led her to embark on an intensive spiritual search. Drawing wisdom from multiple traditions and practices, she discovered tools that helped her reconnect with love, light, purpose, and what she describes as the soul's innate connection to Source.

Together, Habib and Gina explore the relationship between spirituality and healing, the importance of having a personal toolkit of grounding practices, the power of service, forgiveness, and community, and the need to create spaces where difficult conversations about mental health can happen without shame or stigma.

The conversation also highlights surprising resonances between Gina's experiences and Habib's Sufi understanding of the soul, heart, and Divine light, revealing how wisdom can emerge across traditions when we listen deeply.

Whether you have struggled personally with despair, love someone who has, or simply seek a deeper understanding of healing and spiritual growth, this episode offers encouragement, practical insights, and a powerful reminder that transformation is possible.

In this episode:

• Gina's journey from suicidal ideation to spiritual healing 
• The role of spirituality in recovery and resilience 
• Building a personal toolkit for emotional and spiritual well-being 
• Service, compassion, and reconnecting with meaning 
• The relationship between soul, spirit, and inner light 
• Creating safe spaces for honest conversations about mental health 
• Why returning to love may be one of the most important spiritual practices of all 

"You are the joy that nothing else is." — Gina Cavalier

If this conversation resonates with you, please like, subscribe, share, and leave a review to help others discover the podcast.

If you or someone you know is experiencing thoughts of self-harm or suicide, please call 988, text 988, chat online at https://988lifeline.org/, or contact local emergency services or a crisis support line in your area immediately. You do not have to face those struggles alone.

Transcript:

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Welcome to Beyond Names, I'm Dr. Habib. This is a space for spiritual seekers and soulful misfits, for the curious and the committed, for those grounded in a tradition, and for those who are not sure what they believe.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Whether you call the Divine God, Yahweh, Allah, Elohim, Hashem, Brahman, Great Spirit, Higher Power, the Ultimate Reality, the Great Mystery, or you're still searching for language that fits, you are welcome here.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Together, we'll explore the intersection of spirituality and daily life, the wisdom of many traditions, and the ways we return to our true selves, to our Source, to the light that each of us carry within.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm so glad you're here. Let's begin with introduction of our conversation partner for this episode, Gina Cavalier. Gina is an entrepreneur, an author, a filmmaker, and sustainability advocate.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She is founder and co-CEO of Bio-Good Products, developing refillable systems to reduce single-use plastics, and she also works in fuel infrastructure through Secure Supplies Group.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: A storyteller at heart, Gina has contributed to more than 300 film and television titles and is author of Planet Walking and Surviving Suicidal ideation.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: To learn more about Gina and her work, please visit http://www.biogoodproducts.com/.  

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Gina, welcome, thank you for being here.

Gina Cavalier: Oh, thanks for having me. I am really excited. I love the, the name of the… one of… some of the… the God names, the… the Ultimate Reality. I think I definitely want to use that one moving forward for a little while.

Gina Cavalier: Thank you.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes, in my tradition, there's, of course, we use Arabic, there's the word haqq, which, is often translated as Truth, but it means more than that. It means, like, you know, the Ultimate, you know, like, what's Real versus what's temporary and illusory, and so on. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, anyway, yeah. I love to find concepts and names and ideas that cross bounds, that, you know, cross traditions, so….

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, as I warned you before we started recording, every episode starts with the same question, and that is if you, you know, let our listeners know a little bit about who you are by telling your spiritual story. And of course, to the extent that you're comfortable.

Gina Cavalier: Okay, thank you for, offering me this space, and I'm just sending a warm hug out to everybody who might be listening and sharing this space with us right now. 

Gina Cavalier: This is really important work for all of us, I believe, and we are just… we are more connected than we ever know.

Gina Cavalier: That goes, endlessly. So, doing this work is really important.

Gina Cavalier: As most people, you know, growing up as a child, I didn't really understand spirituality, and I had a pretty abusive, childhood. 

Gina Cavalier: And that led me into just feeling unwanted, unworthy, that I didn't belong here, didn't understand why I was on the planet.

Gina Cavalier: And, just felt genuinely unloved, abandoned, and I was pretty neglected as well. So, when you're a child, and, you know, you're just kind of looking up with these wondrous eyes, just wanting to explore this beautiful world, but it… you're just… you feel so, excluded.

Gina Cavalier: And, for me, that made me just feel like I… it was a mistake. I wasn't meant to be here, and I couldn't figure out what that feeling was, but that's what I felt.

Gina Cavalier: And so, I started, having thoughts of just, I don't want to be here.

Gina Cavalier: And that started as early as 8 years old. So, and I didn't understand what that meant. I just didn't want to be here. And I'm a happy person, I had that still joyful heart, I still played, I was just still this sweet soul that I was, but I just didn't want to be here. 

Gina Cavalier: That unhealed child grew into an unhealed adult. And in all of my, interactions, you know, I just drew the more negative towards me, because it was something I was used to, in my relationship.

Gina Cavalier: And… but then it was like, none of this is getting better, and… and every time I tried to dip into spirituality, I didn't have people around me that like to even talk about spirituality.

Gina Cavalier: I was sort of in the rock and roll world.

Gina Cavalier: And it was all about, you know, what you wore, and who you're hanging out with, and it was, you know, very surface level, but it was all that I knew.

Gina Cavalier: And then I married into somebody who was a singer of a band, and I was just surrounded by it. And every time I tried to, you know, dip my toe into something spiritual, it would just be mocked.

Gina Cavalier: And I would be kind of made fun of, so I kind of would just say, oh, I don't want that to feel that way. So I would, like, secretly hide just having passion for just learning about it. 

Gina Cavalier: Then when I went through my divorce, I… the suicidal ideation got really bad to the point where I was making plans. And, when you live with suicidal ideation, it's a slow death within itself.

Gina Cavalier: It is not a life to live, that I believe. It's terrible. It might not be… and it's a different type of medical diagnosis, I believe. 

Gina Cavalier: And I'm not a medical doctor, but in my experience where it might not come for 3 or 4 months, but when it comes, it becomes 911. So it's not like a low-humming depression, or bipolar disorder, or other mental health categories.

Gina Cavalier: It's in its own, and why I do the work that I do, because it needs to be looked at completely differently.

Gina Cavalier: But when it does get up to that moment where all of a sudden you're at this stage 5, where you're making plans, you really want to exit, it becomes 911. 

Gina Cavalier: And at a certain point, living this chaotic… that this could come up to the surface at any moment, through, say, a breakup, or a loss of a job, or a big fight with a friend because we always have conflict in our world.

Gina Cavalier: It is what we were built on, we're built for drama, we're built for, this is where the life we're living, you know? We have wars all around us, we have, you know, all that stuff. So, it can… what would happen is it comes up to that forefront.

Gina Cavalier: And that's a very scary life to live, and it's usually a secret.

Gina Cavalier: So you're living a secret, scary life that you don't want to tell anybody.

Gina Cavalier: Because it might not come for 4 months, so why are you going to… you know, you're like, I'm doing fine, and then the next day it could happen.

Gina Cavalier: So, I finally decided I have to make a decision, either live this life and fix it, or leave. And I couldn't leave, because I had two rescue dogs. That was my… and I couldn't do that to my mother, you know what I mean? 

Gina Cavalier: So… That was my thing. I said, okay, I can't do it, so I'm going to have to fix it. And I went on a spiritual journey. I went and I studied Kabbalah, and Hinduism, and Christianity, and I did a lot of my own research.

Gina Cavalier: The one thing that really kind of helped me the most, was learning about, you know, my whole body, everything about me is, is energy.

Gina Cavalier: And it has vibration, and I could change that vibration through even my… the way I mentally think, the way that I breathe, the way that I interact with the world around me. 

Gina Cavalier: And that was really my basis of my spiritual… and I started having just out-of-body, beautiful experiences with, energy, and the feeling of love, maybe, like, angelic love surrounding me, or what I would consider was, like, the Source, Light, just what was inside of me just started to shine bright, and all this healing came in, and all this forgiveness came in, and just the understanding that every single thing that happened in my life was a precious learning opportunity that this was something that, we play in this… on this planet, this give and take, these games, these learnings, and, that the more that I could go back into love, into every situation, and just say, thank you for teaching me that, and letting all of it go, you know, I just became this light.

Gina Cavalier: Like, my light inside of me shone, and all the darkness really fell away, and I couldn't even think about suicide for a second, that one tiny little second. 

Gina Cavalier: I actually…it makes me laugh, in a way, that's my… my trigger is, like, I giggle, like, that's so… that's not you anymore. That's never gonna happen. No, forget it.

Gina Cavalier: And it literally… I can't hold on to that thought. It's been completely programmed out of my mind, body, and spirit. It is not my path anymore. It is something that is behind me 100%. It's almost like it's another person.

Gina Cavalier: And it's a complete transformation. And I wanted other people who have suffered with this to go, really, you can actually get so, like, leave that so far behind you that it is not in your sphere at all? Zero.

Gina Cavalier: I… I wanted them to know it's possible. And so I wanted to shout it at the rooftops.

Gina Cavalier: And this has given me incredible strength through the trials and tribulations that I went through. Even after I went through all that, that's when I actually hit my hardest things in my life. I literally lost my home, I lost all of my belongings.

Gina Cavalier: Bad breakups, I got down to, like, almost no… I went from a very successful career, leaving the entertainment world, because I wasn't vibrating at that, wasn't able to manage that anymore, to, you know, literally working at a… at a Hilton, like, you know, living in a place that actually had rats.

Gina Cavalier: I'm not even kidding you. You know, I went literally through that after I healed.

Gina Cavalier: And I would just sit there and smile and be like, okay, these are the lessons… Like, yeah, it wasn't quote-unquote fun or the best way to live my life but now I've fixed all that, I'm living in, you know, a more abundant world, and I'm building my businesses again, and I started over. 

Gina Cavalier: But if I hadn't done that healing in that really hard time, I know I probably wouldn't be here. 

Gina Cavalier: So, I am just so, you know, proud of myself, that I made that… I feel like I got a whole other life ahead of me that I get to live completely differently without that hanging on me at every moment.

Gina Cavalier: And things come all the time, and I just… I process, chaos and conflict so much differently. I take a breath, I don't take it as, like, a per… everything so personally.

Gina Cavalier: I don't…you know, I'm just not… I… I… you know, when I'm feeling low, I just look, I… I welcome the light, you know, come and… come and help me, just surround me, give me a hug, let me know that… I am of the… the… the… the original love that we are all… I believe that we're all born on, and… a part of us, and, just remind… remind myself of that.

Gina Cavalier: So, that's when I wrote the two books. I started my podcast that I had, I don't have any more, but I wrote, Surviving Suicidal Ideation, which is a workbook with Dr. Amelia Kelly, and this is what it looks like.

Gina Cavalier: And it was published through the Swedenborg Foundation in Philadelphia. 

Gina Cavalier: And I was so proud of it, because a lot of people in my past life who, used to tell me, you'll never write, you know, you're not educated enough, and those were some things that really made me feel down on myself.

Gina Cavalier: And I'm like, nope, now I'm like, I did it, and then, you know what? I'm gonna do it again. And then, O-Books released this book, Planet Walking.

Gina Cavalier: And this is all my tools that I perfected, and how I healed my suicidal ideation, and burnout, or grief, or anything like that. And, just super proud, and this book is doing really well, and yeah, that's my journey, and I'm here with you today.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, great. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, it's interesting how the Divine works, as a person who comes from a theistic tradition, I'm going to obviously attribute this to the Divine. I'm going to use the word God, or Allah, or the Divine, rather than universe, but, you know, for me. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's interesting that we're having this conversation today because I've been working on a manuscript, and it's a manuscript I've worked on for years, where I've picked it up, and I work on it, and I set it down, and I pick it up, and I set it down. And the manuscript follows a particular format, you know, it's not like a thriller, it's… 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: What I do is I take the most pivotal moments of my spiritual journey, and so I write these little vignettes that are from those moments, and then there's a reflection.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, like, what is to be learned from this experience. You know, like, and then, the spiritual practices that were key in that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So it follows that format throughout.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And one of the readers said to me, something along the lines of, like, well, how… what can you do to make the reader care more about what happens to you?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I thought… so I've just been thinking about that, and I thought, well, do I talk about the time where I was suicidal? 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Because it's not something I…I really want to talk about.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I was thinking, just in, like, thinking about writing about that time in my life was… is not comfortable.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It was not com… I… for me, in the moment, like, present day, I mean, this is… we're just talking, you know, a couple days ago. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I was like, yeah, that, that definitely affects how I feel in my body, it definitely affects my mental process and my emotional process to go back and to think about writing about that time in my life.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And yet, that's what I'm thinking about doing, is adding, you know, that to the manuscript as like a… to more fully illustrate, this is where I was, you know, and then this is what followed that… that journey.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, of course, I'm curious about your process in writing these two books around writing surviving suicidal ideation, and, you know, how difficult was that for you?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Did it put you back in the same, like, revisiting it? Did it put you back in a similar mindset, or were you able to just, be centered and grounded and deal with all that came up with it, and get it out, and share your message of hope and transformation? How was that for you?

Gina Cavalier: Well, the first book is a… has a lot of my personal story in it, because the publisher wanted that. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. 

Gina Cavalier: So I did have to go back and… and we… they wanted us to create, like, the five levels of, suicidal ideation, like, steps, and I did it with a therapist, so it was… it's very medically informed.

Gina Cavalier: And then also my personal experience. And then we did the five levels of healing, so somebody could see, like, here's where I am right now, or here's where I am right now on both sides, so we try to make it even that way. And yes, of course, I had to go back to those moments, some of the darkest moments.

Gina Cavalier: Like, one of the stages is called, like, I called it the rabbit hole, or the tar pits, and that's exactly kind of what it felt like to me, because when you kind of… and you're getting close to, like, the biggest stage, it's like, you're literally starting to fall in, and it's almost like, for me, my experience was that that the world was starting to close in around you.

Gina Cavalier: It just started to get dark, you know, and the darkness. And once you fall almost down that rabbit hole, you're just… you're just looking at a pinpoint of light, and it's just covering you, and everything's telling you to go ahead and go.

Gina Cavalier: You know, and then you just have to focus on that light, and just hopefully bring you back out into there, and just say no, and fight for yourself.

Gina Cavalier: And I had to go through those, but because I had the tools.

Gina Cavalier: I… I… it was very interesting, spiritually, to go back into those memories.

Gina Cavalier: And it was another level of healing to go back into those memories as a healed person with new tools.

Gina Cavalier: I was able to clear it. And, whether those memories were when I was a child or when I was an adult, I almost created a second self.

Gina Cavalier: And a lot of therapists use this. I think it's used in internal family services, but there's a couple different practices where I…

Gina Cavalier: Like, if, say, if I was a child in that memory, I would see myself as that child, and I would go into that space, and I would, like, literally sit next to myself, and we would hug, and I could feel almost that version of myself I was going through.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Gina Cavalier: I feel like I'm going to cry for a second.

Gina Cavalier: The suffering that that child was going through, and just holding her, it's okay, I'm here 40 years later, I'm okay, you're going to be okay, you… this is not your fault, you know, and we love you, I love you, and I'm sorry if I didn't do my best, or whatever it was. 

Gina Cavalier: And I had a conversation, and…There's something so beautiful in that healing just myself, with my former self.

Gina Cavalier: And it's not under any type of… I'm not under any specific medication; I'm not under a treatment watched by a doctor. Like, it literally is something that I did on my own, in my room.

Gina Cavalier: And had just a very, you know, healing and spiritual experience, and… and letting that go. And what happens is, is that… because we're the ones at holding the pain, you know, and so I wanted to… like, I don't want to hold it anymore.

Gina Cavalier: You know, and I want to forg… that's why it's like I practice forgiveness, and even though forgiveness is, like, the last thing we teach, because when you're actively in a state of ideation, you just had a traumatic experience, or, you know, you just… something happened, you know, after war, or you lost a partner or something.

Gina Cavalier: When you're… Forgiveness really just kind of happened to me the last stage.

Gina Cavalier: But just knowing, and it's okay, but it's okay, that might be… you might not… it might take you 10 years to forgive a thing.

Gina Cavalier: But that… when that happens, you really do release yourself. Not… it's not about the… the other thing, or the situation, or the person, really. It's about releasing yourself from the suffering of that thing that makes you feel less than, or unworthy, or that you don't belong.

Gina Cavalier: And, of course, you can also bring in also, I brought in a lot of spiritual elements during those times, you know, prayer.

Gina Cavalier: I have a lot of, what I would call my guides, you know, like Jesus, Mary Magdalene, you know, you know, all kinds of different, energies that I would just ask, please help me lighten this energy for me, please hold my hand through this, please lay next to me, let me, you know, you know, things like that.

Gina Cavalier: I would have processes like that, and I believe that we are all so powerful that we can call in any energy like that that we want at any time.

Gina Cavalier: And just say, you know, you know, hold… can you hold this suffering for me right now?

Gina Cavalier: And it does lighten everything, but I do do grounding practices, meditation, because I believe that the tools that we were inherent when we were more first on the planet, we… this is a practice we all had.

Gina Cavalier: Spirituality came first in our practice. We were thankful for the food we ate. We were grateful that we were alive that day. We loved our community and family. Everybody had a role.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Gina Cavalier: So that's all been taken away from us. Now it's, you know, making money, paying our bills, and all that stuff. Spirituality used to be number one in all of us as humans, not in every culture, all around the planet, used to be the first thing that as a group, as humanity, we used to care about.

Gina Cavalier: And now it became 6th and 7th, or it got pushed. And I think now, through the times and conflicts, it's starting, and all the opportunity for Zoom and podcasts and what you're doing.

Gina Cavalier: Now it's becoming to the… we're pushing out all the programming, the people are telling us what we should think, and what we should do, and what we should eat, and what chart we should look at, and what we should take. 

Gina Cavalier: Now it's like, we have this ability to, you know, across the world have these communities like you and I are doing, and building and putting spirituality first, and saying, if you have spirituality first, and like you said, it's… it can… it's the gamut. 

Gina Cavalier: It… I've even worked with atheists who are like, I don't really believe anything, but I know that there's something here. I still work with, you know, it doesn't… or the person who literally is Orthodox, you know? It doesn't matter. It's… it's all spirituality to me.

Gina Cavalier: And I actually separate spirituality and soul.

Gina Cavalier: So I, I separated the two, as different energies, I guess.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Do you want to say more about that? It's an interesting thing to bring up, and it just perplexes me. Do you want to say more about that, or do you want to leave it at that?

Gina Cavalier: I speak, and I talk about it in my book, so, and I… for me, because I love learning, and I am very visual, and I like breaking things down into compartments.

Gina Cavalier: That's why when I learned energy, instead of literally doing the traditional religion, it helped me a little bit better, because I could see that we were ions, and I could see the scientific backing behind me being as a being, right?

Gina Cavalier: What I was shown in some of my meditations was spirituality is your information. It is your spiritual education, it is your belief system. It is…it basically is almost like your own personal library.

Gina Cavalier: Soul is what is inside of you. It's alive, spark of light from Source, from the light. Soul is what vibrates. Soul is what animates your body. Soul is the connection to the light, or whatever you're connected to, but it's con… the connection.

Gina Cavalier: So I separate it, and actually, separating it helped me understand.

Gina Cavalier: When I do my healings and teachings with… to other people, especially young kids, I'm dealing with people that have kids, they're… who have committed suicide at the age of 10 here, where we live, you know, and worried about their other kids.

Gina Cavalier: And, when we talk about this, they love that separation, because kids are very visual, too, so they're, like, when they have a connection to their soul, they say, oh, I have a soul, I have a piece of light inside of me. Oh, okay, that's cool, that's rad, I wanna… that's neat, like, I'm… I'm a part of this whole universe and, like, a star. I'm like, yeah, you're like a star.

Gina Cavalier: You literally, like, your own star, and that vibrates all over, and that works with your eyes, and it gets them more into their body and in the present time.

Gina Cavalier: And then when they asked me, well, what is spirituality? I'm like, that's your belief system. That's… what do you believe? You know, is this right or wrong? Or is that good to do? Or is that, you know, things like that. 

Gina Cavalier: And you can curate your own spirituality and your own book of notes and highlights and things like that. And I love that because it gives me control.

Gina Cavalier: I know what I believe. I don't have to share it with the whole world. I know when I'm alone at night, what… where my prayers go, or what I want to do. That doesn't have to be shared with everyone. 

Gina Cavalier: That's my spiritual book that I've, like, love and speaks for me. So, that's… I love this separation. It really helped me, kind of.

Gina Cavalier: When I do, sometimes, healings and work with other people, I ask them to maybe close their eyes and to imagine what their soul looks like.

Gina Cavalier: And… when… when and if you actually do see that vision of, like, because every individual soul, like our fingerprints, are unique. They look different. They vibrate differently

Gina Cavalier:. So, once you get that visual, like, I know what my visual soul looks like, like, as without the physical body.

Gina Cavalier: I can close my eyes and go right to it. It's… and it's beautiful.

Gina Cavalier: And, you know, it's got rainbows in it, it looks like an opal, it's moving, you know, and for me, that's who I really am. Like, this is just the avatar that I'm presenting right now, and that… that thing that…that dances in the color of rainbows cannot be put out.

Gina Cavalier: And it doesn't pay bills, and it doesn't pay taxes. I mean, that is the result of having to live on, you know, barter systems and stuff like that. It's just stuff. But it doesn't… none of that matters. It's all love. It's all love, and all from Source.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Gina Cavalier: It’s beautiful, and so it helps me go when… on the days that are not, like, the best days. 

Gina Cavalier: I just go into that vision of my… my being, and just, like, it just wows me. It's like, you know?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. It's interesting to hear you speak and to make connections with my own tradition. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And, in my tradition, we have the word ruh, which is a word that is used for spirit.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, and there's the word qalb, which is the word for heart, and, you know, that captures the… that's associated with turning, that our heart can turn to different things in the world. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So there… in my tradition, there's more of this idea of there being, not necessarily… it's not like it's linear, but that there are different… you know, we do have an ego self, you know, and we do have an energetic or a spiritual heart, and we do have a soul, and we do have spirit. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And there's this…this idea that when the Divine put the soul into the body and gave the body life, that the Divine also gave the body free will, the body of the human being free will, and imbued it with Divine light.

Gina Cavalier: Hmm.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so, each being is… the idea is that each being comes from, comes into life with innate purity and that, in our essence, who we are is that pure light.

Gina Cavalier: I love it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Thank you.

Gina Cavalier: I completely believe that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You see, you see how similar, what...

Gina Cavalier: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Obviously, you know, I'm talking from an Islamic and Sufism, you know, Islamic mysticism perspective, and that's not how you locate yourself, and that's… and yet, what we're talking, there's definitely, if you listen for it, you know, you can definitely find those, those points of resonance.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah.

Gina Cavalier: That speaks me, for sure.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I… I want to…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I suppose there's a… I want to say it's, again, it's impactful for me to have this conversation because of what the situation that I mentioned earlier, and then as I'm… as we're talking, you know, I'm trying to be present, and then I'm thinking about, oh, you know, I've had, my… I've had two uncles that committed suicide. I've had a cousin who committed suicide. My brother, my only sibling, committed suicide. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: There's been so much of mental health challenges, and… and… I mean, just off the top of my head, I'm thinking 5 suicides in my… in my family, that I can think of in the moment.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And you have talked about your healing journey as being one in which you have, and I'm going to use my language, this is not the language that you use, but it's like you've demonstrated an incredible amount of receptivity to what I would call Divine light, you know, an incredible amount of receptivity to Divine love, you know, that's helped you in this journey.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, I'm wondering if you have, or if you would be willing to share, because I'm sure you have, I know the answer to that is yes, but if you would be willing to speak to practices that you do that have helped you sort of increase that receptivity and allow that divine love and light to wash those places in you that have carried these, these darknesses, and these pains and all of… all that goes with having suicidal ideation.

Gina Cavalier: Well, again, thank you for letting me answer. You have to have a practice. Again, going back to when we were first around, we, in the beginning, we did… we didn't need these practices as much because they were innate in us.

Gina Cavalier: Now where we have, we're, you know, isolated into separate rooms, we have a lot of Wi-Fi energy running through us, we have toxins from every part of the air, to the sky, to the water. I mean, it is just… it does envelop us. It does change our chemistry, our brain chemistry. All that different stuff. So we are in a definite, different place.

Gina Cavalier: So, we might not have needed that before, and that's when people go, well, it's been years, you know, people didn't have to do that back then. But now, especially with the youth, especially with the youth. I'm going to, like, repeat that, you know, teenagers, people, you… and you have to manage your content.

Gina Cavalier: You have to manage, you know, if you're depressed, don't watch, don't play, video games, you know, shooting people up. Don't watch dark content. If you're too sensitive to… I have to monitor, because of my sensitivity, I can do a little bit to be aware of the world.

Gina Cavalier: And I have to, and… but I can't watch too much of it, because I literally will take on the energy of it, you know, I have to manage it and stuff like that.

Gina Cavalier: So it's really a lot about self-managing, but you have to have tools. And everybody has to have their own toolkit. You just think of it as a toolkit right next to you that you pull open like you go in your garage and find what's for you.

Gina Cavalier: But there has to be one grounding, practice.

Gina Cavalier: I teach a grounding practice where I, like, imagine a tree or a cylinder coming off my hips, and it's hollow on the inside, and I send it to the center of the earth, where the lava is, and I just put my body on release of anything that's not serving me, anything of low-level energy, because you can pick up energy from, you know, just walking by somebody, or somebody throwing energy at you. 

Gina Cavalier: So it's, it's a literally, like spiritual hygiene, cleaning that… and if you… there's so many beautiful visualizations of, like, energy of a physical body, how the energy is around us, and how to move that through the spine, and you can do, like, earth and cosmic combinations to kind of ground you, the Earth, and kind of bring you in that light.

Gina Cavalier: And then, you know, just however you want to call in the light, because the bright white light will literally just dispel darkness. 

Gina Cavalier: So, you know, if you have darkness in your space, you know, you open up the windows, if you're in a house and you're depressed, and say you don't get light into that part of your house.

Gina Cavalier: You have to find a way to… the light, the literally physical sunlight, will actually dispel darkness. You have to let that darkness come in and go into every corner of the house, and if you can't, you have to meditate, you get into a meditative state, and imagine that light coming in.

Gina Cavalier: It…it is just as strong, because we are… we have such power… our mind and our… everything we do is so powerful, we can call in the light to the places that are dark. So, you just have to have a toolkit.

Gina Cavalier: And so, in my toolkit, I have music, like, if, you know, I play about music, I don't care if it's the Bee Gees, whatever makes me dance.

Gina Cavalier: You know, put on some Disney classics, sometimes makes me giggle and laugh, you know, like Wall-E, I love Wall-E. 

Gina Cavalier: But movies or content that makes you happy, grounding, you know, like, I really love animals, so, I go and volunteer at animal sanctuary. When I was the most depressed, I was on the verge of leaving this planet.

Gina Cavalier: I volunteered at an animal sanctuary, and I was a VP, right, at the studios, and I was, you know, big, high, you know, money-making positions and stuff like that, and on the weekends, I was going to pick up dog poop. 

Gina Cavalier: And I was… it was the best thing for me, because it had a thing that had nothing, and then I became something. So I just knew, it was like, I… okay, I'm feeling unworthy right now. 

Gina Cavalier: How can I feel worthy? I like animals. Go and volunteer at a shelter. Go work with the elderly.

Gina Cavalier: You know, can you imagine… I mean, we sit here and we watch all this stuff, this content, and we're feeling really crappy about our lives, or something's missing. I hear this all the time. I can't get happy, something's missing, something's not right in my life. You know, go take a book, and go volunteer at an elderly community.

Gina Cavalier: There's so many people that haven't had a single visitor all year long, because they don't have either any family left, or they just didn't have… they were alone at the end of their life. Read them… God, I'm getting chills. Read them a little bit from a book.

Gina Cavalier: And then go, oh my… and see on that physical how you've changed that person's day.

Gina Cavalier: You're going to go home a different person, and you're going to say, what am I sitting here crying for? Feeling low for myself?

Gina Cavalier: I, you know, you have to think about those things, you know? You have to just go, what can I do to change my energy today?

Gina Cavalier: What can I do? And I guarantee you, you go read to an old person who hasn't seen anybody and hold their hand, who maybe has a couple weeks to live or a couple months and haven't had one single visitor.

Gina Cavalier: What, you know… go do something like that.

Gina Cavalier: And if the kids of today did that a little bit more often into their school projects and things like that, had to go, you know, like, they would be able to get more connected, and those are the programs I think we need to do.

Gina Cavalier: Go visit a vet, you know, who is suffering with PTSD. Go play a game of pool with them, or something positive, you know?

Gina Cavalier: There's so many things we can do, but we run out of ideas, and we think that all we can do is lean on into social media and things like that, and gaming, or things that are passive. You have to be active participant in the healing.

Gina Cavalier: Even when I personally do healings with people, I don't just do the healings. I actually teach them the tools, and I… I walk with them, and I help move the energy, but I want them to do it. I don't want me to do it, because that doesn't help you later.

Gina Cavalier: It's funny that a lot of people, they're like, well, I just want you to go and do a healing on me. I'm like, it just doesn't work like that for me. And sometimes they get mad, and they're like, I'm paying for you to heal me, and I'm like, well, this is the way I work. 

Gina Cavalier: And then they call me back, like, the week later. I was in an emergency, and I felt really bad, and I used all the tools that you taught me. And I'm so grateful that you taught them to me in our session...

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Gina Cavalier: because now I can use them.

Gina Cavalier: And I… believe me, the people that have the most resistance to spirituality, they will use the tools the most. And I always get, like, see, I told you!

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, it's interesting, I, in my PhD studies, I did a little bit of studying neuroscience, and had the good... good fortune is not the right word, but it's the only word that comes to my mind. I had the blessing from the Divine to be able to work with someone on my dissertation committee who had studied that pretty extensively and is part of HeartMath.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, and and so, part of my spiritual formation, or part of my encouragement in working with others around their own spiritual growth sounds very similar to what you're suggesting, in terms of, like, thinking about having a toolbox, and identifying, like, in my toolbox, okay, here's my body toolbox, here's my mind toolbox, here's my emotional toolbox, and here's my soul toolbox.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Like, I really encourage people to, like, explore what helps you feel grounded in body, what helps you settle your mind and your thoughts and the busyness of the mind? 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: What helps you feel emotionally, have life-generative emotions, you know. And go through that process of self-awareness and self-discovery so they can identify, like, okay, I need to do something for my body, and I need to do something for my mind, and something for my emotional heart, and something for my soul, and what….

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Maybe that means I take a bath, and then I go for a walk, or, you know, everybody's different, right? Maybe it means, you know, in some… and for my tradition, it may be… may be I do something that involves breathwork, but then I sit down and do some recitation, or do some prayers, or, you know, whatever fits for the individual, but it's… it sounds similar.

Gina Cavalier: Hmm.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, that's right.

Gina Cavalier: We’ve been aligned this whole time.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Oh, my goodness.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So… What else? 

Gina Cavalier: What does the audience want to know?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, what else is on your heart in terms of what do you want to share about… I mean, it could be either of your books, it could be about, just… you know what I would ask, now that I think about it, as I'm posing this question to you, what else do you want to share? 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm like, well, you know what I want to hear about, is I want to hear about more how you made the switch, and how you help others make the switch from going from the point of thinking so much about self-harm and transforming that into self-care and self-love.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Because that's one of the things that I picked up earlier when I heard that you were talking about, and you were talking about using, I think you mentioned the IFS model, which is often using what in the IFS model, you call Self, with a capital S, Self-energy, with an exiled part, to use the IFS language, but it's like saying there's that little girl that is so wounded and neglected and hurt, and then there's, you know, the part of you that is… that knows truth, that knows your inner light and bringing those two together.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, could you speak more to that whole, making that transition from…

Gina Cavalier: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: harm to care and love, and…and just because so many people really struggle with getting to that place of self-love.

Gina Cavalier: Yes, I'm just writing something down.

Gina Cavalier: So I'm a part of a lot of anti-suicidal things, and I appreciate all the efforts that people are going into. But again, I think they're overcomplicating things.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Gina Cavalier: I had this idea of almost doing, like, an alcoholic anonymous-like, you know, Zoom call, where it was, like, Suicidal Ideation Anonymous, because from the people I've talked to, and the experiences of the people I've worked with, having an open dialogue has been the number one best thing, you know, and then releasing that stigma, and then it's like, yeah, I thought about it, okay, whatever, and it's like, it's gone.

Gina Cavalier: And that's like, whew!

Gina Cavalier: You know, and then they can talk about it, and all of a sudden, like, that stigma and that pain and that secret, that the whole… you know, everybody knows anytime they're trying to hold a secret, it is the worst feeling in the world. It is just terrible.

Gina Cavalier: So, having that secret is just the number one thing that just… it keeps growing, like a cancer cell inside… inside, you know?

Gina Cavalier: I'll just give one little brief, story that I think will kind of hit on this. So I had an event in Malibu raising money. I'm trying to do a documentary about suicide, like a TV series, and I have a director, Max Baltar.

Gina Cavalier: His father committed suicide in the Ukraine at his age 10. He never told anybody after he got here until he told me while we were filming our trailer for it. And then we're trying to sell it to PBS anyways.

Gina Cavalier: But I had a bunch of people, we're doing this fundraising thing, this artist that's really well known, he comes in with a fella and his girlfriend.

Gina Cavalier: The fella, like, started medical marijuana in California, so, I mean, he's a really wealthy young man, and beautiful model, and very beautiful runway model. 

Gina Cavalier: Then they're sitting there in my talk, and we have this great moment, you know, speaking about suicidal ideation in my experience.

Gina Cavalier: He comes in afterwards, that night or the day before, and he said, Gina, you saved my life. 

Gina Cavalier: He said, I was thinking about doing it that morning. And everything kept saying, just go to Gina's event, just go to Gina's event, just go to Gina's event, and I went.

Gina Cavalier: He said, I… I'm getting chills again. He said, my friend that I brought, that he… they were… I just brought them randomly. We… all three of us afterwards went to dinner, and we all talked about… all three of us are suffering suicidal ideation.

Gina Cavalier: So it's not about having money, or not having money, or being beautiful, or being in the right, you know, an artist, and doing all these things that you think, you know what I mean, of where your life is, right?

Gina Cavalier: It's… they… and these are souls that were suffering, and he said, we… we talked about it all night long, and we just got it off our chest.

Gina Cavalier: And he says, and now we, like, support each other. And they're a darker, kind of, like, I'd say darker as in, like, macabre kind of feel… people. They're, you know, they're a creative, arty kind of…

Gina Cavalier: So he said, we've made it kind of our personalities, so we will call each other if we're feeling that way, and we will laugh and be like, okay, so how are you going to do it? And the other guy will be like, I'm going to go in the wood chipper, and then, how are you going to do it?

Gina Cavalier: And they lightened the heavy topic up with giggles and laughter and the ridiculousness of it, in a way.

Gina Cavalier: But it worked for them, and he's like, still tells me this day, he's like, I have never thought about it ever again.

Gina Cavalier: When do you know that something that has plagued you as serious as leaving the planet possibly be lifted within a couple of days by just expressing it.

Gina Cavalier: No pills, no, you know, no long-term care. Expression. 

Gina Cavalier: So, I cannot stress it enough to not… The three words that we need… 

Gina Cavalier: Judgment and criticism. Those two things are really harming us. If you can practice, and I practice all the time, it's very hard because it is in our brain and it's in our hearts now. Removing judgment when you can, and criticism of yourself and others.

Gina Cavalier: And I practice it. I'll be, like, looking and I'll be maybe throwing a judgment person and go, nope, pull that back. Nope, that's just not good. You're not helping them, and you're not helping you.

Gina Cavalier: And it's something we have to practice at this stage of, you know, humanity of where we are, and call back the love, and go back to love as much as possible. 

Gina Cavalier: You're not…You're not helping yourself when you're throwing that stuff on other people, but just speaking it…

Gina Cavalier: So, again, letting people talk about it. Let's not overcomplicate it. We don't have to have 20 million different things and stuff like that

Gina Cavalier:. It's like, just let people… and if it's anonymous, you know, and they don't want to have their camera on, but they want to… and to hear my story is… my story, or other people's story, that have come out the other side.

Gina Cavalier: It's, like, so important! They need to hear these stories.

Gina Cavalier: So I'm thanking you and sticking with us, the people that have been able to stick with us, because we have people around us that are suffering, you know?

Gina Cavalier: And that's why I put it in books. It's like, okay, I'm gonna do books, I'm gonna do classes, I'm gonna go on podcasts, like, what else do I need to do to just talk about my story, and you can feel it authentically.

Gina Cavalier: I know people say, like, I really want to help those people that are on the edge right now, I want to pull them off that edge and hold them, in my arms as much as I can, and I'm hoping to give them the space so they can speak it out loud and get it out of their system.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay, so the importance of expressing -- getting it out through talking about it, rather than hiding it -- and returning to love the best you can. Sounds to me like, yeah.

Gina Cavalier: And I was thinking about that story for some people who… I don't know why it was coming to me, but, like, you always feel like, I want to live my life when I have the money. I'm going to live my life when I have the right person. I'm going to live my life when I'm in the right financial… you know, it's like, that's why I use them as an example. They had it all.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Gina Cavalier: So, that's not the answer, you know? Be where you… you pick this situation, this family, the location you live in, for a reason, energetically. 

Gina Cavalier: So, figure out what, you know, with what you have, and, and don't judge it. Try to just embrace whatever the storyline is, you know? We're all different, we're all unique, we all have… 

Gina Cavalier: I find everybody's story so interesting. Wherever they came from, wherever, whatever background they have, religious or, you know, around the world, we are such an interesting planet, I think, you know, and beautiful.

Gina Cavalier: We have more beauty in this planet that is unbelievable, and we just need to hold onto that, the beauty.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, and I think that the advice that you're giving is suited for everyone. It doesn't have to be someone who's in a particularly down moment, but every one of us, if we could let go of our judgments and criticisms, and learn to self-manage those in such that we don't, you know, feed that particular wolf, the judge wolf and the critical wolf, and instead feed the love and the service and the giving and the caring, you know, for ourselves and others.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, that's something that we all need to do.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Everyone.

Gina Cavalier: If I see, like, a homeless person, and I say I'm not in a space to help her or do anything, you know, I… I hook them up to God, or the light, and I surround them with roses, and I just pray for them really quickly, and it's all I can do.

Gina Cavalier: But there… I don't want to be the person just walking by that person and not doing anything, you know? If that's all I can do, that's actually something. 

Gina Cavalier: If everybody did that driving by that person, all of a sudden, like, all of a sudden, that person, the light would poke in a little bit more, for whatever their story is. That's what I believe, you know? So, it's…

Gina Cavalier: But we just need more people to have awareness of that, because it's just easy to go, oh, look at that thing, or that filthy thing, or… and criticize it and judge it.

Gina Cavalier: The last thing that person needs is more judgment and criticism on them.

Gina Cavalier: But that's what we're thinking of.

Gina Cavalier: That's the last thing they need. And maybe you're not in a position to do anything, or you have to get to work, you know, or whatever, but, like, so go ahead and just hook them up to God, and give them a blessing. Like, do that. 

Gina Cavalier: And… but what happens is, when you do that, you're, like, say you're driving into work and you see that, you know, you just get lighter. That light starts to grow within you, and then that's why I get, you know, more opportunities, job offers, people just say, you know, publishing deals, how'd you get your… I just wrote to people, and I, you know, got publishing deals.

Gina Cavalier: Like, you know, I've been able to be abundant, I think, because it comes back, so…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I will say that part of that is being willing to see people, just to see them, you know, to…to be willing to…like, oh, acknowledge if you have places in yourself where you have discomfort, and to not let the sensations of discomfort keep you from your humanity.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And being present with someone.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And just seeing them.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then if you have the opportunity to speak to them, or they have the opportunity to speak to you, do it from a place of really seeing them, you know?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Not from a place of judging or criticism, but it's a place from, like, here, in front of me, is another soul in which is also divine… excuse me, in which is also divine light.

Gina Cavalier: Yeah, just throwing suffering on top of suffering is what I want, you know, that's something that is a pattern. It's like, again, going back to the youth, they get…

Gina Cavalier: And the one last thing I want to comment is that the youth is just mimicking the adults.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Right.

Gina Cavalier: You know, bullying, divisive comments…

Gina Cavalier: They're watching the adults do it, so they think it's okay to do it.

Gina Cavalier: Like, don't think that those are just kids doing it because they don't know better. They're watching the adults do it. So, as an adult, you know, watching how you communicate online in every… in every sense, you know what I mean? Being a, you know, ethical, as much as pers… you might… you could have your own personal opinions and…

Gina Cavalier: You know, you want to… those are really important to you, that's fine, but it's the way that we, you know, if whatever we put out into the world, we have to understand that these children are watching and listening. 

Gina Cavalier: And as adults, if we can curl that back a little bit. So, you know, they're just mimicking what we are. They didn't know what… they don't know what suicide is unless they saw it, you know what I mean? They're being taught it now.

Gina Cavalier: Through things… that's why it's so much more increased, you know, and it's always been around, but it's getting more and more and younger and younger, and it's because they're watching the adults.

Gina Cavalier: So, you know, we just have to understand that I think we forget sometimes, when we're in… we think of… we're just programmed with our mind, really, to think of self so much, we really are.

Gina Cavalier: You know, that's why we like to talk about ourselves, about what happened to ourselves, you know.

Gina Cavalier: Other than being interviewed, I don't love talking about myself. But, you know, they're mimicking that, so, we just have to be careful of that, what we put out into the world, and for the children.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Gina Cavalier: And if we can't find a… that's the best reason, right? One of the best reasons.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It is a wonderful, beautiful reason to…to care for the children, you know, and let that be a motivation for how we behave toward ourselves, and how we behave toward each other. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I really would love to see a world in which, we could hold our disagreements in such a way that it doesn't in any way bring us toward the place of disrespect toward another being, you know, who is holy and is sacred, you know, that we just truly honor the sacredness of every life.

Gina Cavalier: Yeah, let's hook that up.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, let's lift that up, so…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Any resources that you want to, specifically mention, or any, closing thoughts?

Gina Cavalier: I like to say that you are the joy that nothing else is.

Gina Cavalier: And what I mean, and I wrote this when I was a little kid, and I never knew what it meant.

Gina Cavalier: But really got me along that, literally, like, inside of you is the joy, that nothing… And the whole universe is like it. And that the, your soul is the most valuable thing you own. You need to take care of it.

Gina Cavalier: And, if you're feeling anything, I've got my Suicidal… Surviving Suicidal Ideation. It's a great… it's like a workbook, so if you're not feeling like sharing with anybody, you could just do the steps at home.

Gina Cavalier: And then, my six-week program is the Planet Walking Handbook for the Living. I channeled this in 7 weeks, 10,000 words a week, and, it just kind of flew out of me. It was, to me, very divinely guided. 

Gina Cavalier: And then my planetary work, I felt like my evolution was healing myself, and then helping others, and then now I'm kind of moving into the planet, so I am doing… the BioGood products is, a plastic solution that we're hoping will help save single-use plastics for beauty, laundry, and, cleaning supplies. And, we're… I have a patent pending right now on the… and that was a vision that came in, to help the planet. 

Gina Cavalier: And that's what happens when you kind of lean into your spirituality, though, you get very profound, you know, visions and things that can help the future. And, you know, I'm just going for it, and, you know, hopefully it'll…it’ll take off. And, yeah, so…

Gina Cavalier: But that's, you know, thank you for listening and having me on your show, and again, ending with a big hug out to everybody out there that might need it, and yeah, that's about it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, thank you, Gina, thank you for the great conversation, and thank you to all listeners for joining us on Beyond Names.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Before we go, briefly, if you would just take a moment and take one breath and pause and reflect on what stays with you from this conversation with Gina.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Maybe it's because one of the last things you said, but I love that statement about joy [“You are the joy that nothing else is.”]. It reminds me of who I was as a toddler. I just felt like, my natural state in the world was this joyous being that just radiated light.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, thank you for reminding me of that.

Gina Cavalier: Oh, yay!

Gina Cavalier: It is amazing. I love that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: May something you heard today help you reconnect with the light in your own heart. May you grow in compassion, clarity, and courage. May you find your way, again and again back home to the Divine, however you name it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: If today's conversation spoke to you, please like, share, and comment on this episode. Please follow and subscribe to Beyond Names. To make an appointment with me, please visit https://www.habibboerger.com/. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Until next time, may you be light, may you consciously participate in growing your light, and may you share your light.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Peace be with you.

Gina Cavalier: Thank you, Dr. Habīb!