Episode 06: Kaitlyn Graña and the Power of Choice

We’re back, bitches…and we’re celebrating with a banger of an episode. One part backstage rehearsal get ready with me, one part intimate conversation on all things beauty and love, the responsibility and gift of stewarding children during one of the worst times in history, being in right relationship with your spirits and the world around you, sobbing to Fleetwood Mac, nihilism and “former” sad girl feels, not believing in regrets, and of course, our dead. I feel so so lucky to have been able to sit, chat, and play dress up with my friend Kaitlyn, or how many of you may know her, Mother of Mystics. 

To connect with Kaitlyn and explore their world, you can do so via IG (@kaitlyn.grana) or their site: 

https://motherofmystics.com/

This episode is dedicated to + in loving memory of Kaitlyn’s dad, Eduardo Tomás Graña. Happy Father’s Day 💐🤲🏽☕️

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Okay, I'm trying to find all the important tools. Rehearsal. I feel like those videos of um Broadway actors when they're doing their makeup in the So fun. Back in between scenes. I love those videos. Where they're like sweating and then there's like people and they're like and that they do their own makeup.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

I'm like, that's amazing. You're amazing. They seem so panicked in the back, and then they come out and they're just like And yet shape down my eyeliner. But I use this lip liner too because duh. Yeah, why wouldn't you? I don't know if that's like eye mouth contamination. I don't care. But it's your mouth, so well. Oh yeah. I update. I finally ended things with my boyfriend. Like officially, officially, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

But we love. We love, we care, we're friends. It's just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

And I'm not ready to like date or meet anybody yet, but when I am, which I don't know honestly when, it's like at this point. I'm I've always done the thing where I've jumped, you know? Like because I love love. I'm such a lover girl. And it's like, okay, maybe love myself. Maybe love myself. Um thank you. That's the best to hear. Congratulations, you got a divorce. Congrats.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Better than all.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Truly.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Did you watch the season finale of Angels Like That? And the girl realized she was not alone.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

She was on her own. Shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

So I almost ranted on threads and I was like, okay, relax. Like, I felt like they heard, they were like, oh, we heard all of your complaints. You're pissed that Kim Catral isn't back. You don't like anything. So we're gonna leave you with the worst last episode ever. Like it was almost like a fuck you to the fans, and I don't love that.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Okay, and I felt like episode 11 was the first episode that I was like, this is a good show. I was like, this should have been the whole series. Where was this the whole time?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

The whole time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

The whole time.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I feel like Sarah Jessica Parker slapped me in the face.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

She was like, Oh, you guys hate this? Guess what? I'm gonna make you hate it more. You think you hated that? Cool, cool, cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Cool. Alright. Yeah, it's warm today, but we're gonna we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. All right. Sweat through it. Oh, I'm already recording. I just realized it's all perfect. You're listening to Death Alchemist Radio. I'm your host, the Death Alchemist, and I'm so excited to introduce our next guest. I know them as Caitlyn Grana. You might know them online as the mother of mystics. There's so much I could say about Caitlin, but I'm going to volley it over to them so those who are unfamiliar with Caitlin can get to know them a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Hi, I'm Caitlin. Thank you for having me here. And as you mentioned, I'm probably best known online as the Mother of Mystics. I'm a fourth-generation ispiritista, trans medium, exorcist, and occult educator. And I really specialize in yes, connecting folks to their spirit guides and their ancestors wise and well. But in I guess the bigger picture is that I teach people how to live in right relationship. Or I give them the tools to live in right relationship with themselves, with their altars, with their communities, with their dead, and to witness their lives as miracles and opportunities for pleasure and joy and change rather than these I don't know random meaningless existences to believe that there is more and to actually experience it. One little choice at a time.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, those who are watching this might see that we are barefaced. I've put on my vitamin C and um some like primer SPF stuff. Um, this episode is gonna be a little bit different. We are going to be doing our makeup as we um record for this episode. And on that note, I just want to ask like, what is your relationship with makeup and with like skincare and with ritual and with glamour? And take us through that. I would love to know.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

I mean, I've always been attracted to glamour. I think it really um, especially like in high school, that's when it started for me. My interest in like the artistry of makeup, and you know, the first time going to the Mac counter with my friend's big sister and all of the colors and the dazzling. And I've always been really into drag and artistry in that way, and how we can make ourselves feel differently and make the world react to us differently just by playing with ornamentation, um decoration, decoration, mm-hmm, and actually, okay, on the way to school this morning, I was talking to the kids about something that made me think of this podcast, and um we were talking about Halloween costumes, and I was sharing with them the different costumes that my parents have worn together over the years. Oh my god, so sweet. Stop. Because they're really they my mom is still alive, but as you know, my dad is has passed, and they were always really into Halloween and making their own costumes. And my dad made all the costumes, and my dad also did all of our makeup. Like, he was really into, he would take us to the cinema secret store in Burbank, and like he had this kit that my sister just cleaned out the other day because a lot of it was expired, and you know, like spirit gum, and he would research all these different techniques, and we would watch Rick Baker's Monster Makers together to learn about the like special effects and the latex and all that shit, and like he would do such cool stuff for our faces for Halloween, and then I got a little bit weepy, and I was like, oh, like I had forgotten that part that not only did he sew all of our costumes by hand or source them at different like um after movies and sets wrap, they'll like send costumes to these warehouses that'll have sales, and so he would source some of our costumes from those spaces too. But he also did our glam. That's amazing. Where did he learn that? Where did he pick that up? Uh so my dad wanted to be an artist, like he that was his dream was to be an artist. He thought he could maybe be a graphic designer or an illustrator, and so that's what he went to college for. He went to Woodbury University. It's in Burbank now, but it used to be in downtown LA.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And his he's I have a storage unit full of like all of his old sketchbooks and paintings, and his plans kind of got derailed as sometimes happens. And his older brother decided that he didn't want to take over the family business, and in Latin families, the older not all Latin families, but in many Latin families, older brother, Prince, can do no wrong, does whatever he wants. Um so it became my dad's burden. And so he went from this path of becoming a professional artist to being an upholsterer, just like his dad, just like his grandfather, just like his great-grandfather. And um he was just always into fashion and style. And my mom talked about how when they went to prom, my dad had to dye his socks because he couldn't find the right shade of pink to match his shirt, which matched her dress.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

He was an art, he was an artist. I just want to say he was an artist. He was an artist.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

He was an artist, he was an artist. He would do the nail art on all of our little teeny tiny fingers.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Or it's like one little dot, probably in like a little flower.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

I remember he did little fish on all of our nails for a vacation. And that was just always him. And he, I mean, our homes were we had this little cottage in the San Gabriel Valley, and my dad made every room a fucking vibe, and like there were colors on every wall, and all the furniture was stuff that he found and reupholstered for our space, and he's just always he was always an artist, and I think a lot of my love of glamour actually comes from him, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

I love that so much. Why do you think you forgot or that your brain kind of put that away for a little while?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

That seems like a big thing to forget, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

I know. I don't know. Like, I talk all the time about how we made our costumes and decorated things and built things, and if we couldn't find it, he could make it, and if we didn't know how to make it, he would figure it out. And I think a lot about how he was such an incredible home cook, and like food was really his one of his love languages to I hate the word love language, because then I think about that stupid book, but yeah. One of his ways of sharing love with his family, and for some reason that just kind of disappeared from my brain.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

You're really you're hitting on something for me too because um I've been reflecting on my beauty journey a lot, and first off, wasn't allowed to wear makeup in Catholic school, so would get in trouble. Like I remember this one time I wore blue eyeliner, and I had to go wash it off. And going back into the classroom, they were like, You need to take everything off. I was like, I did, and they're like the mascara too. And I was like, I'm not wearing mascara, like I just have beautiful lashes. So thank you.

unknown 12:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Um, and and I remember feeling like that just wasn't a way that I would express myself, but as I got older, I would see my mom, and same thing would go to the counters, but when people would go to counters, which makes me so sad that people don't really do that that much anymore.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

I know, or that was such a vibe.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

It was, and I would do that with my mom. We would go to I think it was like Nordstrom or something, and like and there they had, you know, they had like Mac and Langcombe and whatever else. They had um like Estee Lauder, like kind of kind of fancier stuff because my mom she liked, you know, she liked her stuff. But we would go and um get like samples. She would always ask for samples, which I love. I love it's like we're not gonna get something we're uncertain to, lady. We'll still leave with something. Similar, like I really stopped expressing myself and playing with makeup uh after my mom died. It was I don't know, I don't know what it was. It was just I think it was like twofold. I think part of me just wanted to say fuck it and like find myself and express and show up just as me, not with like you know, I was maybe using it for like the wrong reasons, potentially, or you know, trying to cover something up. So I had that journey of not wearing as much makeup for a long time and now I'm finally getting back into it. But but yeah, similar thing. It was like my mom was all about skincare and you know, those rituals. She was a cancer, so it was like she was all about those rituals and making you know decorating her home. So um, I love this. This is so like I don't know, it feels nice to be doing this together, knowing that about your dad too. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

My dad was my dad was the glamour guy. I love that. It's been really fun as a parent, too, because for me, I think out of like, yes, my dad kind of like fostered and activated that awareness and interest in glamour as a tool of transformation. Yeah. But by the time I was in high school, I was like, oh, this is a tool of changing myself so that I am more conventionally attractive. That's because like that was pre-No's job, I still had braces, I was I was an awkward teenager. There was no YouTube beauty tutorials, and then I learned that I'm like, oh, I can make myself fit into a mold that makes me attractive, and so much of my relationship with cosmetics after that became about being pleasing to others, being pleasing to convention, and then I kind of had a falling out with makeup too, because I was like, this is not fun anymore, and I'm also realizing I don't want to be conventional anymore, it has not served me, yeah, it has not for one moment served me. No, none of the things I've been promised by fitting in have happened, nor will they ever happen, and it wasn't until my kids got a little bit older that I started to have a relationship with makeup again because they were really into my husband. Um worked in nightlife and entertainment forever, and he hosted a drag night, and my kids were just like, this is it, this is it. And we started watching like Beauty Two, you know, we started watching Trixie Mattel doing her makeup on YouTube, and being with my kids and having them develop a relationship to glamour and cosmetics and makeup artistry through the lens of self-expression and experimentation rather than suiting the conventional male gaze was like incredible for me. And it's really been so healing and so fun since then.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

I was gonna say that sounds so so healing, and it helped you reclaim it in a way of like this is dress up, this is fun, yeah, this is expression, this is make-believe, this is magic.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

We're playing dress up, and that part I really like. And it's just been a completely different experience since unlocking that, I think.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I love that so much. Okay, personal question before we jump into the personal questions. Personal question before we jump into the official, official uh James Lipton-esque questions. Um, I my mom got a nose job. Yeah. And we had a very similar nose. And so I almost got a nose job when I was right out of high school. I was probably 17 or something. My mom took me to this plastic surgeon uh down in La Jolla. So there were he was a good one.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

But I didn't end up doing it. And my question to you is do you regret it?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah. No, yes and no. Okay. I don't know. Um, it's funny. My mom and I had the ex had the exact same nose, and now my oldest daughter has my nose, and I look at her face and I'm like, you're so fucking beautiful. Like, you're so beautiful. And my dad used to like sketch my profile all the time, and like, you know, I was so caught up in like not I'm not pretty, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not pretty enough. Yeah. Like, you know, I wanted to look like the two white girls that went to my high school so bad. And um, and you know, in the Y2K era, like what were we being bombarded with all of the time? Is like images of white thinness and these perfect tiny faces, and that's when plastic surgery was getting super loud because it was all over the tabloids, and um it did give me confidence, yeah, for sure, but it didn't stop me from feeling like I needed to snort a bunch of drugs at my nose, my entire like teen and early 20s. Like it didn't stop me from you know having suicidal ideation for however long. It didn't, yeah, it gave me a little bit of confidence, but it didn't like save my life. Yeah, it didn't fix anything, it didn't fix anything other than it made me more conventionally attractive, and that gave me the little confidence boost that I guess I was seeking. Yeah, but it didn't fix my problems, and you know, sometimes I I joke about it, like I try to will it to grow back.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Oh, I love that though.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I like imagine that it's growing back. I am grateful though that my mom was really careful about she she told me that she also, when she was younger, really wanted a nose job. And my nonni, her mom had one in the 50s after her or 60s. It was after her first divorce because she was really shy. And you know, my my Nana grew up in Los Angeles in the 40s, where like Latinos, specifically Mexicans, are being targeted, and like it's very much like right now, they were being rounded up by like naval and marine officers and sh shipped off to Mexico, regardless of immigration status or country of country of origin, ill, but like where they were born. Um and so she started dyeing her hair blonde and stopped going out in the sun and eventually got a nose job to try to fit in. And um, I'm at least grateful that my mom was super diligent about finding a doctor who wasn't going to change the way it looked, like entirely, right? So when I like ran into people from high school after I had had it done, they were like, Oh, you look like you look really good, you look really good, but nobody knew that I had had my nose fixed, which also in hindsight, bitch, it must not have been so terrible if people aren't like, whoa, what a drastic change.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

You look like a different person, yeah. But sometimes it does, sometimes it does happen that way. Like you're you're bringing me back to when my mom got hers done, and it was probably the 70s, I want to say. Yeah. And her older sister had a quote unquote witch's nose, so she had her nose. Done. My mom liked the change and then did it herself because hello, hello. Everyone, we all had witches'. We all had to do it. We all have witches' noses. Crazy. It's just, it's so wild. My mom did look like a different person. Like she really did. If I look at the pictures of her when she was younger, I'm like, oh, we looked alike. And then after it, I'm like, we don't, people didn't really know that we were related. Um, so that was kind of like a bummer. We have we're healing the relationship with with that, where now it's just fun, and yeah, it's fun. Like, even just now, I put a little bit of a base on, I'm like, okay, I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Like glowing. Queen of the night. Let's go. Yes. I was talking to one of my old coworkers recently, uh, because we live down the street from each other, so we still see each other all the time. And she was like, You your skin cleared up and you started aging in reverse when you left the apparel industry. Isn't it interesting how like if we like leave certain things behind all of a sudden?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

You're glowing and you're reversing an age. Interesting, interesting. No, it's so true. I have some friends who have left the US and they've been saying that to me. They're like, I feel like I'm living, you know?

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yeah, because there's no Monsanto in your food. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I think verbatim what she said was Yeah. I think verbatim what she said was, um, I'm no longer in an abusive relationship with the country that I'm living in. And I was like, oh. Are you ready to get into these questions? Absolutely. Lay them on me. All right. Um, what character does death play in your life? How would you describe your relationship?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I think death plays mother. Um my worldview revolves around death and the afterlife. Um I've gone through many deaths and rebirths in this lifetime. Thank God. Um I literally thank God. Thank God. I literally worship at shrines devoted to death as mother. Um I don't fear death. I used to crave death. But now I wait for her patiently and I have faith that I will get to do the things and see the things and live the life that I want to before I meet her for the last time in this body. Um she's a protector. Probably the fiercest one, especially over my children. And I don't know, she feels kind of like a a cradle or a womb. Um instead of being this like big scary unknown, there's something about the personification of death in a a folk spirit that really makes I don't know, everything feel more tender. And it's like shh she's a caregiver. And sometimes caregivers will kick your ass a little bit when you need it, and that's good. Um but they also provide like nurturing and tenderness and teach us how to take care of ourselves, and so I think I sit in reverence and gratitude of death. So much bigger than me, kind of like the ocean, you know, the way it holds us, but also the way there's so much we'll never know about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Um it's life. I mean, if you think about it, water is life, and death is life in so many ways.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Is a part of life too. Absolutely, absolutely. So I suppose she's many things to me. And all of them things that I sit in gratitude for beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

I feel like when you were talking about um the cradling, I it means it reminded me of the first time that I had a um meeting with Santa Muerte where she came through sitting in a rocking chair. And very maternal, very matriarch. Um and it makes me think of also like this invisible, I've been thinking about this a lot, this like invisible umbilical cord that we all have with death. Um, that I believe we all have with death. And so yeah, this return to her is just all of those visuals are just so like resonant, they resonate with me, obviously. And I love that. I love that everyone has a different experience of her with her, too. Like I've had people say that she's a friend, um, you know, she's uh a teacher, she's a guide, but mother for sure, I think is at the top for me as well. So I love that.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

In our house, she's definitely mother. It's interesting what you said about the rocking chair because when I see her in my kids' room when they're going to sleep, that's where she sits in a rocking chair. In their room. Oh, maybe I need to buy her a rocking chair for that room. Yes. Buying buying lots of chairs for the dead lately. Home furnishings for the dead.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

They need they have they need to have somewhere to sit and sing out. Absolutely. I think the rocking chair is a great idea, and uh, that makes me feel oh, that's just giving me so many, like, ooh, tingles because I saw her in sitting in a rocking chair. Um, it was after my mom died, it was maybe like a year, and I remember thinking it was my mom. I was like, oh, this is my mom, but I was kind of nervous. I was like, she had like a hood, and I remember thinking a little bit, I was a little bit scared, and I was like, oh, this feels like mom, like my mom, but it's not my mom. And then come to find out, it's like, oh, it was mom. It was just a different, you know. The other, the other mother, the other mother. So I love that. Get that rocking chair for sure. I feel like that's that's a sign. Yeah. Um, next question: what or who are you currently saying fuck you to?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

I'm saying fuck you to nihilism. I am saying fuck you to the disbelief that this world can and will be better and different. I am saying fuck you to the idea that we're all fucking cooked and the world's going to end. Um, I think that's my biggest fuck you. And like maybe I'm I don't think I'm an optimist. I think I'm kind of a sad bitch. I'm pretty emo.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Same, same.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

And yet, and yet I am compelled to believe that this earth didn't end when the dinosaurs went away, and this earth didn't end when all of the other atrocities that have happened on her have happened. She changes, she adapts. And I think that we are still so new human beings. We are still so new to this earth. Like, when you think about like magnolia trees. Magnolia trees have existed on earth for so fucking long that bees can't pollinate them because they're too new of a species. And I'm like, fuck, we just got here. There's still so much more to our story, and our whole story cannot possibly be this devastating. It just can't. It j because that's just not how stories work. Right. And um, I may be living in my delusions, but I would rather act according to the delusion that life can and will be good, so I might as well behave in a way that accommodates that change than give up. And that's okay with me. Like maybe I'm delusional, or maybe I am embracing the prophecies.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

I think it's the latter, and I think that before I assume, I want to ask, do you think that having children opens that window a little more where you're like, I have to believe this, or is it just naturally you think you would probably believe this too?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, no, I'm sure that having kids is a big part of it because, like, to be honest, you know, like I was an addict for a really long time, and I was very much on that born to die. I was looking through some old like Tumblr journal posts and the other day, and I was talking about like being strung out on Hollywood Boulevard and hoping to join the 27 Club, and I was only like 21 at the time where I was writing this shit emo. Um I don't know. I think that having kids, yes, propelled me, catapulted me, right, radicalized me. Um, but I've also met a lot of kids whose parents and a lot of parents who like don't feel the same way that I do. Right. And raise their families with a different kind of understanding about what's happening in this world. So maybe having kids helped. It definitely helps me stick with it. Or maybe I would have gotten here on my own, maybe I would have gotten my shit together and decided that life was worth living and to stop being an asshole, even if I had not become a mother. Um, has it helped? Yes. For me personally, but I don't know that it helps everyone. Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

I don't, I just I don't think so either. Because I think you can take anything. I think it it's not just finding something that makes life worthwhile or makes life worth living. Um, I think it has to be internal. I don't think I don't think it would be sustainable if it was something that's outside of us personally.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

I think it could help, but at the end of the day, like you are you. And it has to be an internal belief and change. But I do think kids, I do think love and relationships and passion or what whatever we have, art itself, I think can like bring us back. Like we can be in the depths of some shit and then be like, wait a second, like love. Wait a second. Yeah, my kids, wait a second. X, y, z, you know, fill in the blank. So it's nice out here. It can be nice out here.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

It is, you know, like things aren't perfect, but I don't know, having hope is cool.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Having hope is kind of nice.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

You know, I I've had people say to me before, like, I was talking to a a friend and their partner, and my friend was asking me, like, oh, are you gonna have any more kids? And I was like, Oh, I really want one more. And their partner was like, Why would you bring any more kids into this world? And I was like a little bit jarred.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

I've heard that. I've heard that before.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

It's like, and like, I'm not saying you have to, first of all. Please do what's best for you. But I truly feel that like we are raising the next generation of stewards, stewards of this earth, and what a huge responsibility, but also what like a blessed calling. And I feel so affirmed and aligned raising kids who also believe that we are all deserving of better. I feel so much hope raising kids who view the world from a perspective a perspective of compassion and care and who I don't know, like believe in something greater. It feels kind of cool. I don't know, maybe we all look for legacy in different ways. Um perhaps like I don't know if this sounds because I don't I fully believe that like my kids are autonomous humans and they're going to make their own decisions as they should. They are their own human beings. I'm not trying to live through my kids at all. But it is my job to shepherd them and raise like decent humans with good values and who are respectful and kind and make good choices, I hope. Um and like maybe that's maybe that's the legacy for me. It's like, okay, here's a few more humans who value doing what's right, even when what's right is hard. And I don't know, I think we need more of that on this planet, not less.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

I believe I fully believe that too. And I think um you saying that you're like, oh, I love that they see the world in this way and that they're compassionate. I'm like, because of you and your husband's guidance, you know? Like I think we have you have to remember that too. And and it's so funny that you bring up legacy because that's um the episode I just released, um, episode one, inheritance, is all about that, is all about inheritance and legacy. There's something to be said about living legacy too. Like you're doing that already for your kids and for the people who work with you. Um, so I get it though. I get, I get you're like, I'm not living through my kids, you know, because it's that is a thing that people do for sure. Um, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And I think that people need to calm down and you know, people are still gonna like fall in love and have kids and do the things that we've been doing for fucking ever. Like it's gonna continue.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Sorry, buddy. People are going to fall in love, they're going to build families, whatever family looks like, kids or no kids. Yes. And like that's one of the most oh, that's gonna make me cry. Uh, we made it so far without me crying. Um, I think that's one of the most incredible things about human beings is that even in the darkest of times throughout history, of which we are certainly living in one now, yeah. We still find a way to build relationships with one another, you know? And like that's that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

That's what we're fighting for. It's crazy and it's cool and it's sexy too.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yes, it really is. I really do think so. It's so romantic, even if it's platonic relationships we're fostering. It is like a romantic idea that despite the horrors, we still persist in desiring to build connections with one another. And I think that's neat.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

I think it's neat too. Recently broke up with my boyfriend, and that love isn't gone. I think that's something else I wanted to say. Like, in we're living in tough times right now, and it would be really easy to project a lot of stuff onto this person and be like, fuck you, you weren't able to hold me during such a difficult time in life. And instead, it's like that love is still there, that relationship is still strong, it's just different. Like, I can't my expectations change, and I think that's another thing too. We have to realize um, in relationships, especially uh living in the time that we're in, like things are changing rapidly, and that's okay. Um we need to change, I think, in order to survive. That's kind of what evolution's about, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Absolutely, and I I wonder that sometimes, you know. I feel like I was talking to a friend about this not too long ago, is that I think there are certain romantic relationships that like we might love a person forever, we might grieve that relationship forever, and it ebbs and flows, you know. But I I don't know that we are required to get over every relationship that's lost, romantic or otherwise. And I don't know, I think the focus on getting over something isn't always necessary, you know? If it's helpful, wonderful. And also, like sometimes that's just not the case, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah, what's that one Jeff Buckley song where he's like, it's never over? Like, yes. Uh it I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

That's all I was gonna say. It doesn't mean like you're necessarily going to rekindle it or whatever, but I don't know. Like, I don't think I'll ever be over my dad dying.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Uh I'm certain when it the time comes for my mom, I'll never get over that either.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

I think people have a no, yeah. I it's definitely okay. I think I think it's honestly it's capitalism. I don't want to blame capitalism, but I think we wanna And yet, and yet we're doing it. Uh we want things to be done and done quickly, including our own fucking grief. Um losses. Exactly. It's inconvenient for you to be grieving on your lunch hour, like go back to work. Um, yeah. I think it's different when it's romantic relationships as well. I think we people tend to, I don't know, you want to get over a romantic relationship quickly because it's like, well, someone else is in line to come in. And I just I just can't operate like that. I feel like a piece of my heart is with every person that I've ever loved or even just shared time with, honestly. And I don't think that's a I don't think that's gross. I don't think that's me being careless with my energy or my love. I think that that's what we're here to fucking do. But I understand the hoarding of the love because it feels safer, but just to remind everyone, like we're all gonna die, so um, you know, just you might as well enjoy living.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah, and part of that is loving, so and love is always a risk. Always, always, always a risk. And if you want to experience it, you have to be willing to get fucked up. Um, you have to be willing to take the gamble, and sometimes it'll be amazing, and sometimes it'll be amazing and fleeting, and sometimes it'll be amazing and last a long time, and sometimes it'll be terrible, and you get the fuck out of there as soon as you can. And you know, that's just that's just part of life. I think that's one of the most interesting things about like love and relationship readings is that everyone always wants to know is this person the one? Is this person the one? And I'm like, maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Or maybe not. I don't know. I don't know their business. I don't know what they're gonna do tomorrow. I don't know what you're gonna do tomorrow. I can tell you what potential is here and what could be experienced. But at the end of the day, it's not just up to one person, it's up to all parties involved. And we can't control others. So it's always gonna be a risk. Even with someone who is safe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Safe, quote unquote, safe.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Even with somebody who genuinely loves you, like you don't know what might come down their path that changes things for them. Even if they're the bestest person, you know, things can change. And you have to be willing to like the fool card, take a risk to experience it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Mysteries of death, mysteries of love, really.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

They all belong in the same deep waters of the High Priestess.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Short lip break. So, similar question. Except who or what are you currently saying thank you to?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

I feel like that's a really long list. At the top, the first one that comes to mind. Right now, the greatest thing I'm saying thank you to is Eva every single day. Thank you, Eva. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Every morning and every night. Um I think that when people not everyone, again, I'm generalizing, but often when folks seek spirituality outside of conventional organized religion, they're seeking freedom from oppressive um foundations, oppressive rules, one size fits all type of things. And in truth, like we require some kind of structure because it is that structure that keeps us from free falling. It is that structure that grants us the capacity and the courage and the like wisdom to explore what liberation can be with good character, with integrity, with humility, with grace. And you know, I grew up within Ispidithismo, and a spiditismo has granted me so much good structure, and also it's really lovely to embrace a structure that is far older than a spidithismo. And just like the the spiritual science of it all, the clarity of divination, like a math problem, the clarity of destiny like solving a math problem. Like that really has granted me so much direction and like I keep saying this word, but like courage. Like seeing, like what a fucking gift that we have this ancient tradition that can show us what our destiny is so that it makes it easier to make choices. I still have to exercise my own free will. I'm still responsible for my own behavior, but like now I fucking get it. Um I am so grateful every day, every day for Ifa.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

That's so beautiful. I felt like courage and also like peace of mind is what came through. I was like, oh, like yes, you still free will and all of that, but like the peace. You're like, even when things are fucking insane, you can come back to that. Um, I love that so much.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Yes. And then of course, you know, I'm grateful for I'm so grateful for my kids. I'm so grateful for them. They're so cool. I feel so lucky, and I tell them every day, like, I feel so lucky to know you. I feel so lucky to get to hang around you. Um so sweet. And I'm really grateful for my partner. I'm grateful to have a person in my life who you know, when you're in a long-term relationship, you experience a lifetime of deaths and rebirths together, and sometimes those deaths and rebirths work well together, and sometimes they pull you apart, and that's like not an inherently bad thing, it's just life, right? Um, but I'm really grateful to have a partner to who like experiences deaths and rebirths with me, and we both keep growing together.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

You are having you're having compatible deaths and rebirths, yeah. They might not be the same, but there might be some overlap, and it's like the Venn diagram. It's like, are we are we compatible here? Is this making sense?

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yes, and to like be excited for one another and be helpful to one another, like all of that is so I I am the kind of person that I've realized like I don't I don't particularly want to do life alone. Like I like being partnered, yeah, it's fun for me, it's fulfilling for me, and so it's nice to be in a partnership that is about continuing to become better humans together as we raise humans who are figuring life out alongside us. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

That's so beautiful. I think it's also um something to be said about not sabotaging each other. I think that can happen a lot because there's this fear of the person is changing, I don't want them to change because then that means, you know, whatever they think it means. Sometimes they think like this person is outgrowing me, or that means I have to change and I'm not ready to change. So then there's a saboteur situation happening, which I completely I think I feel like I've been on both sides of this T Base.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Absolutely. I have been the saboteur and the sabotaged. I have been the offender.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Same, same.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

I know myself.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Yeah, not my proudest moment, but it happens. And it doesn't happen in romantic relationships either. It happens in friendships too. It happened to me. Um, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

I feel like that's one of the uh most common side effects of spiritual awakening, specifically in friendships more than in relationships.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

True that and painful as fuck. Like, I don't think I grieved anyone, not even my mom, which is weird to say, more than my best friend of 20 years. Because I thought my mom died, my dad died, my stepfather died. The worst has happened. At least I have this, this, and I didn't, you know, I did not. Yeah, but it's okay, it happens, and I think we're both better for it too. I've been reflecting on that a lot. Um I we both we both fucked up, we both deserved apologies, we both deserved to be apologized to. Um, or I think I said that wrong, but we both needed to apologize to each other and we both deserved apologies, but um yeah, it can still happen, though, is another thing. If you're relating to that, if you have sabotaged or been a saboteur, you can still rectify that in some way, even if you're not around that person anymore. And the way you do it is honestly, I think, is through changed behavior and through acknowledgement and through not repeating the same mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

And that is true with every relationship. Our friendships, our romantic relationships, and also in healing our lineage. Yes. Um, I've come across many folks who are like, I don't want to work with my ancestors, I don't want to talk to my ancestors, I'm not like them. They were bad people, and it's like, okay. And also Okay, yes, okay, and like, how do we reconcile those choices and those behaviors that you don't agree with if we are unwilling to acknowledge them? How do we know that we aren't perpetuating those same harms if we aren't willing to open our eyes to them? Exactly. If changed behavior is how we remediate the mistakes of the past, we have to acknowledge those mistakes first. And that's why I'm never not talking about ancestral elevation and um remediation of our lineage. I spend so much time talking about it in Into the Veil. I have free resources and paid resources on my website and on the Go check it out immediately.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Immediately. Check it out immediately.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Because, like the past is changed through our practical choices in the physical world and also our spiritual choices and spiritual actions. They they depend on one another. And I will quite literally die on this hill one day.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Dying, we're dying.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Don't forget to elevate me, will be my dying words. Please. Because your mother's not perfect, and we don't need this haunting future generation. No human is perfect. Even our good ancestors, like, we've all got a past. My kids know a great version of me, but this is not who I always was. And so it's important to look at the ugly choices, whether they're our own or those who lived and died before us, so that we can make sustainable changes in our lives and our actions and also like in our world.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Beautiful. I love it. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna skip some questions. We're gonna skip some questions that are I feel like some of these we've answered actually. So let's let's keep it going. Favorite film, song, book, or artist? Just one that makes you feel alive or helps you connect to the spirit of change and rebirth. I just shared mine in a post, um, Vanilla Sky. That is That's my husband's favorite. It wakes me up, literally. It wakes me up.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

That was one of the first movies he made me watch with him. He was like, You've never seen this? I was like, Well, you've never seen the birdcage. We've all got problems.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

We all have catching up to do, so get with it.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Um let's see, my favorite film that makes me feel alive. You're gonna have to edit out my processing time for this. Um I don't know. I love so many movies. That's really tough. I did just watch I'm such a Gemini. I can't pick one thing, but I did just watch uh Chocalot for the first time with my child. Like I my mom and I watched it a lot when I was younger and because she loved it, and she's like she's Romani, and she's also um like Mexican, Mexica, Spanish, and so I definitely don't think she even realized that it was like hitting on all of her like ancestral like pain and pleasure points watching that film, and like we all have this inheritance of displacement and not really living anywhere and having to move and try to find where we fit in. So, of course, she loves that movie. Um, but I watched it with my big kid the other night, and uh I forgot how much I love that movie too, and how like just the the Catholicism of it all and the guilt, but also the chocolate and Dame Judy Dench and like just uh it's so and the imaginary friend who's there to comfort them. Why can't you wear black shoes like the other mothers? Like all of it. I really, really enjoyed, and it was exciting to see it as a mom instead of watching it as the daughter with my mom. I thought that was really cool. Um other movies that make me feel alive. I said it in jest a moment ago, but like The Birdcage, which also comes back to like glamour. Yes. And um that was one of my dad's favorite movies. He loved the birdcage, and so that's always been one of those movies that makes me feel like comfortable and safe and excited for life, um being yourself, being true to yourself, etc.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mom loved the birdcage, she loved Robin Williams, like that was her guy. That was her guy, so I gotta feel that.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

And then, like, you know, at risk of sounding cliche, I always love practical magic.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Listen, I'm so excited for the reboot, or it's not a reboot, I guess it's it's like a sequel, it's a technically a sequel, but it's not cliche at all. That movie is like it, it's it's an origin film for a lot of us, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Practical magic just did something for me. And I remember one time we were at my childhood friend's wedding, and I said something about how like I couldn't believe I wasn't I wasn't in the wedding, but like this other girl that I know she doesn't even really like that much is in the wedding. And my dad looked at me and he said, That's what happens when you're a Jillian.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Oh, I love that so much. He knew he knew you. He knew you well.

unknown 1:01:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

That's that's what I'm saying. That's an origin film for you. When you start being like referred to a specific character, that's that's an origin film.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

That was definitely and still is like one of the important movies for me. Um songs, ooh, that's also hard because I love music so much. I can't just pick what okay. We want to go into like origins. Um The Rumors album, Fleetwood Mac, is definitely like one of those, like it brings all the feelings for me. I have listened to that as a child. I listened to it as a broken-hearted young woman, sobbed through it, listened to it as an adult. Also, the Buckingham Knicks album, which you can't stream-oh, but you can now. You can stream one of the songs. You can find it on YouTube. It's a deep cut. I'll find it. You should find it, but I think they're going to re-release it on iTunes soon. It's not called iTunes anymore, it's called Apple Music Kate. Um, but the Buckingham Knicks album is the one that they wrote together right before they were asked to join Fleetwood Mac. And this is one of my hyperfixations. Like, they actually Mick Fleetwood thought Stevie Nicks was hot, but what they really needed was a guitar player. And Lindsay Buckingham was like, Well, we're a package deal, and one of our singles is taking off right now, so you have to take both of us or none of us. And they're like, Cool, we'll take both of you. And then when everything started blowing up and Lindsay was like, It's me or her, Fleetwood Mac was like, we can find another person that plays guitar. Lindsay, sit down. Sit down, go home.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Sit down. Piss me off.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Oh, like to be a young femme draped in black, driving down Hollywood Boulevard in my Jalopia Vajib, blasting either of those two albums, crying all of my mascara off was just like the most visceral, emotional. Uh, you know, sometimes you get so sad it feels good. Yes. It was that for me. Oh, it was that for me. I love that. And I still I still feel feelings when I listen to it. Yeah, I do. I did recently go see the Yahya Yas at the Orpheum, and I forgot how like specifically, like um Skeleton Me. I was heartbroken when that song was popular too, and I used to cry a lot to that album. And as Carano was on the stage, at the or the Orpheum is like almost a hundred years old, and it's really tiny, and it's very the acoustics are magical, the lighting is magical, being in that building is magical, and she's standing there singing to all of us like love, don't cry, love don't cry. Um, and just everyone is sobbing, sobbing, is crying, crying, and I was like, fuck, like I needed to hear that, like I needed to have this moment. What a powerful ritual, like and it was under the full moon, like oh my god, that's powerful. You must have released a lot, and all together, oh my god, all together, like it was it was pretty amazing. It was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

I love that so much. Um I'm gonna take I'm gonna edit this out. Yeah, yeah. So funny. Why do people not have printers? Because they're expensive. You know what? You're right. I reali I just realized that's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

I rebought one because I needed it, and yeah. And it's like the the the ink, you need to redo the ink, and then it's also like um everything's on a god, what is it called? Not a soft subscription, everything's on a subscription. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

What? Why? Even the printer.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

I hate it here. I don't, I love it here, but also stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

There are some really silly things going on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

We really complicated everything. And I by we I mean the corporations, not us. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Capitalism really is just doing what it was designed to do, and it's annoying.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

I'm gonna put my jewelry on now that my face also, um, I think I'm gonna start doing this makeup. Hello?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

Yeah, it's very moody. I love it. Very vampy. Yeah, I like it. Lately I've been really inspired by pictures of Devin Aoki from the Tumblr days. And so that's what I was trying to accomplish. Her face.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:44

Stunning. And going back to what we talked about in the very beginning about conventional beauty, like she's an unconventional beauty, and like she's stunning. Like, who cares? I remember when I wrote this question down, I was like, ooh, this is a good one. I'm excited. I'm excited. Um, what is a potential deathbed regret that you are aware of actively trying to avoid or have already addressed?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

You know, I don't think I have regrets anymore. That's not to say that I won't have some things I'll regret in the future. But a lot of the things that I would regret, I have spent this part of my life trying to correct. And you know, it's not always like we talked about earlier, it's not always about going back and dealing with that person directly or dealing with those situations directly, but it's about making different and better and more aligned choices going forward. And I think that all of the things I've done in this life have good and bad, have equipped me to be the person that I am now. And I really like the person that I am now. And when I start to feel like, am I doing this right? Am I doing it wrong? Like, I'll hang out with my kids for a little while and realize, like, oh no, I must be doing things right because they're awesome and they know they're awesome, and they're sharing this light with the world. So, like, what's what is there to regret when I have this family in front of me and this life that I've created? Um I don't think I have regrets anymore. I think I would have regretted giving up if I had done that when I had wanted to when I was younger. I think that would have been a regret. But I mean, I'm only 36 years old and I look back and thus far, like, yeah, there were some bad decisions that I am sorry for, and remorseful for. But that I've also changed how I behave because of. And it's hard to regret anything if it was a part of bringing me to where I am now.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

I love that response.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

I've never even asked that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:58

Well, welcome to Death Eggness Radio. Um, no, I love that, and I I I feel similarly. I think I still am it's funny, the regrets I have are with the dead. And they know they know how I feel, and it's like what we were talking about earlier, like changed behavior, you know, um learning from the mistakes and doing better. And um sorry, someone just called me. Um I don't know, don't I have it on like do not disturb? Sorry, one second. No worries, leave me alone. Yeah, do not disturb on. Okay, there we go. I don't believe in regrets either. And it's funny that this is the question I I ask because I I think I ask it because I think there are people who are still working through that. But it's not surprising to you, to me, rather, that someone like you is where you're at because of all the work that you've done and and how honest you have been with yourself and how you've shown up for yourself and and your family and um your community as well. I think the regrets become less and less, you know, strong. I don't think they disappear. I think they just change shape. The more honest you are with yourself, um, and you don't run away from shit. I think that's that's when the deathbed regrets occur when you go your whole life until the very end um running away, pretend pretending, you know, that it doesn't hurt, that you're not sorry, um, that you don't wish you had yeah, that you don't wish things had been different. I mean, um it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to admit that, but I think that's what we're here to do, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

So there are lots of things I am sorry for, but I can't say at this point that I regret anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

Yeah, I get that a hundred percent. There's so much peace in that. Like when you were saying it, you had this smile on your face that made me think that is that is how we should look at the end of life, you know, with a smile on our face. I'm gonna cry again with a smile on our face, and like thank you. You know, just thank you, thank you for all of it. Now I'm crying.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:56

I often think to myself, like, that's how I hope to die with a smile on my face. And like, if my kids still want to be around me when I'm dying, like that's there's nothing more I want. That's a success. Yeah. A hundred success.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

A hundred percent. Okay, we have reached our final question with uh Caitlin Granna, mother of mystics, Kate. Any last words, any wisdom you would like to impart with anyone who is listening?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

It's never too late. You have never fucked up so royally that you can't course correct. You have never. I think you know, to speak to regrets, we all make bad decisions. Some of us more than others. No judgment. I speak to myself. Um, it happens. You are never so far gone that you can't course correct and like live a life in alignment, live a life in joy, live a life in integrity. It is never ever, ever, ever too late. There will be effort required, depending on the severity of choices and how far gone we are. There's always going to be work. There'd be work, there's work no matter what. That's life, you know. Even in a perfect world, sans capitalism, somebody would have to tell stories, somebody would have to cook, somebody would have to thatch roofs. There's always going to be work. Um, but you are never so broken or so far gone that you can't live a life that is fulfilling. Um, you are never so far gone that you become undeserving of a life that is filled with grace and love and pleasure. Um it takes one little choice to be reborn, and then another, and then another. And I don't know that the choices get easier, but your courage and conviction become more clear, and your faith in yourself and your ability to make good decisions strengthens the more you practice, the more you exercise. It is it's never too late for any of us, and I think we owe it to ourselves, we owe it to one another. We do owe each other. We do, we owe each other to be compassionate and kind, and to move with integrity. It's part of the unseen agreement of planet Earth, right? Like the bees understand that they pollinate the flowers, and the flowers understand that they bloom in the spring, and it's all part of the circle of life, uh, as are we. And um, if you're feeling like it's done for me, I've already fucked up too much, I've already given up too much, I've already disappointed myself or disappointed others too much. Like respectfully, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:20

So wrong. So wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

You are so wrong, and what a blessing to be wrong. Um because things can change. Not overnight, but moment by moment. And it's it can seem impossible at first, but I can promise you that it's well worth your while. And the inheritance that you leave behind by choosing to do things differently. Um that those who come after you will be very appreciative of. Your life has an impact now and long after you're gone. Even if you don't feel that way. I promise it does. Because I speak to the dead every day. And I see it. It's all of us ordinary people that write the story of the present but also the future. And you can leave a story behind that you're proud of. Whether you're a kid or a young adult or an elder, you can change. Life can change for you. But you have to decide. You have to decide you are willing to show up for the actions and the sacrifice and the consequences and push forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

Thank you for those final words. And thank you to you, dear listeners, for tuning in for this journey with me and Caitlin. And I'll talk to you on the next one. Until next time.