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Music At Maddens Podcast
Music at Maddens podcast from the snug upstairs in Belfast’s home of trad. Yarns, pints and laughs with well known faces from the trad music scene. Locals, visitors are all welcome to join in the chat - with Lynette Fay.
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Music At Maddens Podcast
Music At Maddens Podcast #009 - Finding Harmony with Niall Hanna & Rachel McGarrity
Welcome to a new episode of Music At Maddens Podcast with me, Lynette Fay.
This week we welcome Niall Hanna & Rachel McGarrity to the podcast.
It's a Tyrone love in this week in the snug as Lynette welcomes renowned singer Niall Hanna from Derrytresk, and fellow Dungannon woman Rachael McGarrity to the podcast.
From rock to classical, this married couple who are both teachers are steeped in music and came to traditional music in different ways.
From memories of the battle of the bands competitions in The Fort in Dungannon, to tuning in to the magic of slow airs, and carrying on family traditions, there's lots to take away from this chat.
Enjoy!
New episodes every Monday.
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Welcome to Music at Madden's with me, Lynette Faye and it feels like you're just dropping in mid-conversation here because you are, because the crack is already 90, with Niall Hanna and Rachel McGarty special guests this week. Hello, welcome.
Speaker 3:Hello Lynette, how's it going?
Speaker 2:Yes, and we have to tell everyone listening to the podcast, watching the podcast. Now here you are a seasoned professional at this kind of stuff, rachel. First time. I've got you behind a microphone and I'm so happy.
Speaker 4:God knows what's going to come out, but sure.
Speaker 2:That is the beauty of podcasting. The beauty of it. Great to see you two are performing at the Sunday Song Gig in Madden's. We're here in a booth. I do make the joke that basically starting a podcast was what we had to do to get a booth in Madden's, Because you can never get one. But you'll be over on the other side of the room here later on this evening performing. And what a repertoire of songs and tunes you have. But I wanted to know how did the two of yous meet?
Speaker 3:I'm back there because you're married.
Speaker 2:This is the love story.
Speaker 3:Well, we played in a couple of groups. Do you remember that competition, shainsa? We played in a group, but we went to different schools. Uh, so we didn't really know each other at that time, but it was through that was a primary secondary school that was in secondary school. Yeah, so which school you were? You I was in, uh, the academy in dungallon, and I was don't more comment.
Speaker 2:Oh right, okay, this is love across the barricades.
Speaker 4:Yes, that's right, I know I'd never seen a boy. It was the second year of intake for boys, but it was yeah.
Speaker 3:So it was that, but that was a long, long time.
Speaker 4:We were 17.
Speaker 3:But we didn't. Then, whenever we came to Belfast, the students, then we were playing sessions. But we weren't together.
Speaker 2:Just friends, that sort of came up a lot later oh, so started off as friends then oh, yeah, yes, very much, so yeah I'm playing music, yeah, and I your brother kieran.
Speaker 4:I would have played with him quite a lot because he was melody, he's melody player, but, um, you were too busy.
Speaker 2:You were in the rock bands and all for a while as well, that's right, yeah in the fort that's right, because I remember talking to your daddy now and he was telling me that you turned your back on the trad stuff. Maybe in the teenage years it was a wee bit of a rebellion going on yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:Well, what was that about? Well, I was, I used to play the fiddle whenever I was growing up. And then I have a memory of going to school uh, this in the academy with the fiddle stuck inside a football bag because I didn't want anybody to see it. So it's kind of changed times now. But I remember just going on with my dad for a long time just saying I don't want to do this anymore, but I want to play electric guitar. And then, uh, but I want to play electric guitar. So daddy eventually gave in then and one christmas there was an electric guitar. So that was the start of that good man jim so um.
Speaker 3:So then I played. It played a bit of rock music and stuff, and it wasn't heavy metal, like you know, but it would have been soft rock.
Speaker 1:It wasn't trot anyway, like you know. It wasn't what my dad you know, but it would have been.
Speaker 3:It wasn't tried anyway, like you know it wasn't what my dad wanted me to be playing like, but um, but then it. Then I came back to it later on, so but uh did you ever fall out with it, rachel?
Speaker 4:um, not really like. I have a classical background as well, so I suppose it was just fighting one over the other at times. Um, like, all the sessions at home in the youth sessions used to be a Friday evening, but I'd have Saturday morning orchestra to go to. So it's kind of like oh, I'll skip this one because I'm up early. You know that kind of way. But no, like, I've always kind of been playing, but you can enjoy other types of music and you know, like I would have went to the fort when you were playing. You can still embrace it all, but it's always been there.
Speaker 2:The fort. I need to explain to people who don't understand it feels, like if you don't understand and you weren't there, you've missed out because, the fort was just amazing.
Speaker 2:It was an iconic bar at the top of Scottsdale and there was great music upstairs discos, bands, you name it people coming to play in the fort where they weren't playing anywhere else. It was just. It was an education really going to the fort and a real great kind of community and you just met a lot of like minded people there and it was good for the court as well. Obviously you went there to meet somebody and have a good court, maybe in Scotch Street at the end of the night waiting on the taxi let's face it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I said big max about a football match that happened three weeks ago but those those couple of years we were actually talking about this yesterday yeah, recently um we were talking about it yesterday with um rachel's sister and and connor, who I I was in uh what. I went to the fort with connor and and yeah, we all went all that same crowd and we were talking about just those couple of years. It was even. It just only last, seemed to only last a few years like, but the band scene was.
Speaker 4:So the band scene was really like around it was like and it was all.
Speaker 3:It was sort of they ran the bottle of the bands competition in the summertime. It was a big one yeah, it was a really big one and yeah, but it was like encouraging a lot of original music.
Speaker 3:Gave you a focus, I think you had to have original songs, you couldn't just get up and do covers like so. But it was a really, and Barry Lynch was one of the big God rest him. He was one of the big sort sort of people behind it, but it was a great experience, like even that whole Battle of the Bands thing. It was great but it was just a mighty spot to go to during the summertime, thursday nights, I think it was.
Speaker 2:And music just being to the core of that experience, of growing up and coming of age, experience, because music is just such a big part of who we are, all types of music and it's interesting interesting even when he started chatting and already you know you were talking about, you know, hiding the fiddle in the football bag but playing the, the rock music with pride the fact that you felt that you had to choose between the two. In a way, you with your classical music and the trad music as well that there was that kind of maybe a wee bit of conflict there. But I think maybe now you're at a stage where everything goes and you can just do whatever you want, and it all has fed into you getting to this point, which has made you maybe richer in the experience.
Speaker 2:But, rachel, like Niall, we'll talk about your background in a minute, because you know one of the Hannahs from Derry Tresk. Your great-grandad was Geordie Hannah, a brilliant singer. Your daddy too, jim, amazing musician in the Canoe Pipe Band, saw him rocking in Clonus there a couple of weeks ago just before the Armagh drone match. Thought it was a good omen. It wasn't, unfortunately, but Rachel yourself. Then what's your background? How did you start playing music?
Speaker 4:So I went to school primary school in Donnock Moor and there was a real push for music in that school. The principal at the time was Colin McCaffrey from Cookstown and then Eddie Doris. I'm sure you know of Eddie. He was my primary four teacher and we all were given the opportunity to start music in P4. So I was like seven or eight and then so Eddie would have, it was recorder. Back then it wasn't a muscle and we all learned how to read sheet music and play recorder, which looking back was insane. But we all did it and I think most people enjoyed it like um. And then at the same time I also got picked for filing through the music service. So I started that um and then we also had bridge harper coming in to do whistle classes, tin whistle and fiddle. So it was just insane the amount of opportunities we got. And I think that is such a big thing because if I had been somewhere else it might not worked out the way that it did. You know the exposure to the music at that age Exactly.
Speaker 4:Like having it was very accessible, everybody got a chance, you know type thing. But I was the only one really that stuck at it, you know in my year, and then it just went from there. But in regards with like background, my dad's family would all be very good singers. They don't play any instruments or anything like that. They probably never got the opportunity, but there would have been sessions on in Granny's house, like the comics from Donnach Moore would have come over and I think daddy's granny played the melodian. So you know that was going on in the house. And then, um, my mom's from monaghan shout out woohoo up the farney and then her father played the button accordion and he would have played in keely band. So like there's a musical influence on both sides. But my parents don't play uh-huh, um, but they have good ears, good rhythm and stuff.
Speaker 4:So I and in favor of it yeah, oh yeah, very supportive and but not not pushy. You're like, if you want to do it, do it. If you don't think that was a big thing, because if you get pushed too hard sometimes then you're like it's counter productive or whatever you know. But, um, very supportive and yeah, like I'm just very lucky.
Speaker 2:So, as you've tapped it, it seems like you've tapped into something that was in the blood, was in the DNA anyway, yeah, and really nice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think maybe just skipped. You know a generation. Um daddy, there was no music education at his primary school, or mum's, so, um, lots of singing, though, like daddy is a great singer.
Speaker 2:Um, all the McGarrity's are good singers, you know so something you just tapped into there, when you said about um, being a singer, you know, growing up at a particular age maybe in the the 80s particularly, I think here if you were a singer it wasn't looked upon as being a talent at all yeah, yeah but if you played an instrument, oh then you're a musician and you know you're, we respect you. If you, if you play an instrument, but instruments were dear, instruments were expensive and not everybody could afford them and the exposure to them.
Speaker 2:It was just really you were. You were not everybody could afford them and the exposure to them, it was just really you were in a privileged position and that EA experience of being chosen for the orchestra, that was invaluable really. Now I want to say a couple of words from our host and the hostess, a couple of words about our very kind sponsors, ríra Irish Lager Now Ríra, if you haven't heard about it, it kind of sums up the unpredictable devilment that Irish people are so very good at, particularly here in Maddens in the heart of Belfast. So Ríra celebrates the best bits of being Irish by creating reasons to talk, to meet, to gra, to bant, to hear, to be heard, to be le cheile, just that little more often.
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Speaker 4:Oh yeah, like, and even at that time our the principal, like all the lessons were covered for, like my mom and dad didn't have to pay for tuition fees, which is massive, like you know. Um, so yeah, really, really lucky that I had access to music from a young age and I didn't know, I probably I was good at it at that age, I just, but I had the opportunity to learn, so that's really important, um, and here you are now working with the aba.
Speaker 4:I's like full circle. And Kate McSherry taught me which is Kate O'Brien great to trad fiddle player as well, so she taught me and I know I work with her and now I take an orchestra with her. So it's, you know what I mean. It's just, it's class, the way it's worked out, just very, very lucky and but yeah, so, and how do you think things are now for opportunities and exposure to music?
Speaker 2:because music, again, is never it's never looked upon as something that is necessary. It's always an extra, yeah, and maybe a luxury in in some, in some cases. Yeah, um, are we any any better off now with exposing young children to music who maybe wouldn't have the opportunity?
Speaker 4:yeah, like I think, um, you know there's lots of different um groups in the community, like as well, um they're they offer um lessons and they try to keep the cost down as much as possible. And then with us I know um children who maybe are um struggling to pay or free school meals. They get so much remission off their fees so they try and make it, you know, as much as possible. But um, it has definitely changed. Like school budgets are so tight now so they can't afford to, as you say, it's a luxury, they can't afford to put the money in that when they need to buy basic books, you know. So it's just it's kind of like the state of education where it is music is kind of, you know, still down the pack in order with other subjects.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but um. Yeah, but there's still lots of way. There's more ways that seem to be learning music now than even when I was growing up, which is weird. Like it's just. It's become really popular. I think people realize the other skills you know. It develops confidence in, in children and it's it's not just about playing an instrument. It's such a big social thing as well making friends, maybe meeting your future wife, husband, whatever as well, and it's definitely more popular with teenage boys now. So I think people have twigged on to that because it really wasn't popular with boys whenever I was growing up.
Speaker 2:Really not like it wasn't popular with Niall Hanna either. No hiding it in a football bag. But do you think you grew up in a household where songs were bread and butter? Music was just always there, niall, you know, did you? You started playing. You played the guitar as well, prolifically. You also sat there playing the fiddle. Can you remember singing? Would you have been very young when you started?
Speaker 3:singing Aye, very, very young. Yeah, I think there's. There's video clips in our house that somebody managed to get working again, like you know, like those old handheld camera thing you know. But in one of them, like, we're singing, me and my brother Ciarán's, both singing, like you know, one of Granda's songs. So Daddy would have just taught us wee bits. Daddy didn't sing himself, but he would have sang in the house and taught us wee bits of songs in the house, like. So that was going on from a very early age, like and then the at that time as well, the Clunoe band was going. They were at their heights in the 90s, like and Clunoe Pipe band Clunoe.
Speaker 3:Pipe band and they were competing in the worlds and they were um. Daddy was the pipe major of the band, so he was fully immersed in that like and we were tagging along to all the competitions and all that too. So that was all going on too, like, um, and. But my mom, my mom's side of the family, like mom's uncle frank o'neill, taught my dad the pipes, the bagpipes, like, so the the my mom's family would be very heavily involved with the pipe band as well. So that was all going on as we were growing up as well as the trad music, you know the, the singing and all of that.
Speaker 3:And then magranda's festival was happening every year, so it was.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of stuff happening, you know, and it was just a normal thing like yeah, it was just part of life for you, because the Geordie Hanna festival would have been at the start of November and then fed straight into the Armagh Piping Festival as well, or there wouldn't have been much between them. It was two weekends, maybe Ennis, in between. Yeah, you're right to let everybody go to Ennis.
Speaker 2:I just remember that being on the calendar that you got to November and you were like, okay, deep breath, because this is going to be a busy lock of weeks, because it was just always brilliant. And when you mentioned your grandad, geordie Hanna, he was a singer from the Lock Shore, sang songs of the area about the people. Maybe songs have been written by locals, um, songs that no one knew who, who wrote them, and people came to collect the songs off him because of his phrase and because of the words, but because the songs weren't available elsewhere and he did an extreme repertoire. It was brilliant and thankfully recorded that we it's been handed down, but you never knew your granddad. So when did you become aware that you know this was a thing in your house, that singing was a thing in your house?
Speaker 3:um, I think uh must have been pretty early on like, um, my brother would have been more into playing the music and I would have been singing a lot more, so it was sort of established that I was going to be the one learning the songs. Uh, kieran didn't have much interest in learning the songs, like he just wanted to play. So I would have been listening to tapes tape recordings that my dad or my aunt, mary or Yilish would have had in the house, and started learning songs of my grandad's. And that's how it all started, really.
Speaker 2:All back to the tapes and keeping things um whenever these days we're so quick to throw stuff out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, and at the time you yeah, you know you probably didn't, I probably didn't realize how uh lucky it was to have, you know, all that, all of that, all of those recordings and material and all that like and um. It wasn't much later that I probably started to appreciate it yeah, a lot more.
Speaker 2:You know well, whenever you you after your um rebellious phase? Yes, uh, whenever there was a time a time came when the the lather jacket was maybe packed away, was it? Now.
Speaker 3:I put the eye shadow away, but in round about 16, 17. Then I remember going to see my brother playing at something it might have been Score actually, and Mickey Kerr was playing in one of the other groups but he was playing this Dadgad tune and I had never seen it. And he was playing this dadgad tuning and I had never seen it, like and um, and he was playing, and I remember whenever, talking to my brother, he says what, what's he doing there on the guitar, you know? And kieran was like, oh, that's dadgad tune and that's the trad tuning.
Speaker 3:At this point I only knew you had like copy a couple of solos or something off, you know pink flight or some something like that. Um, but I hadn't a clue about how to back trad or tunes or anything like that. So, um, then I think it was, uh, laurie hart. Do you know laurie, laurie? Um, kieran knew him and uh, then I I was torturing kieran saying does anybody teach that? Anybody teach that? Because, like he said, he didn't teach it like. So Laurie came down and showed me the basics of dadgarden stuff and then I became sort of obsessed with backing tunes and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I would imagine that something like that just opened up a whole new world. Oh, completely, yeah, you would have been hearing stuff that you would have been consuming by osmosis in a completely different way oh, definitely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I didn't really have much interest in it before that point, but I remember that night going to see that and going I, I'd love to be able to play. You know that the way that that style of playing you know, so that was sort of what put me back into the trad thing then, and then I never looked back after that, and then there's something interesting here too, because the songs that your granddad would have been singing it was all unaccompanied, all acapella yeah and here you are wanting to back trad with a guitar.
Speaker 2:And then you know, and there was a time when back in songs and guitar would have been deemed sacrilegious oh yeah throw in a harmony and you know that's like devil worship yeah, so do you know, was that a? Was that a conflict for you to to try to start to maybe play those songs with uh backing? On a guitar, I think I think maybe a wee bit.
Speaker 3:Yes, because, um, I don't know even still, like I would be wary of of even trying to back some of Magranda's songs if I was singing them. Like you know, a lot of the time I would sing them without the guitar. I don't know why, it's just, but a lot of the songs he sang were like free time, you know, there was no beat in them, and that was the beauty of it.
Speaker 3:And so a lot of those songs are nearly better, probably better, without you know guitar accompaniment, whereas you know a lot more of the sort of folk style songs maybe do have a beat in them or a rhythm. So it's easier to, or it's more natural to, back yourself playing, but a lot of the songs that my grandma would have sang, they just didn't. They suited, just being just the voice.
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Speaker 2:Irish whiskeys are synonymous with premium quality, exquisite taste and rich heritage, and for over 18s only. And please drink responsibly, sláinte. This week's Music at Madden's is brought to you by Anzac Drinks, which is one of the last remaining family owned businesses in the north, supplying a wide range of spirits and wines and beers and premium exclusive products, proudly supporting local brands and bringing them to bars and restaurants and off-licences, giving them the spotlight they truly deserve. Along with working in partnership with market-leading global brands, they're committed to personal service, competitive pricing and long-term customer relationships. Anzac Drinks are trusted by independent businesses across Northern Ireland for their reliability and expertise, and they are passionate about helping customers discover both retailer favourites and unique finds Over 18s only. And please drink responsibly. And when you were learning those songs and say, learning his style, did you really have to concentrate to learn it? Did it take a lot to learn it or did it come naturally?
Speaker 3:Singing in that way. Not really. It just would have been the way that I sort of heard and learned from a very early age because I was listening to the tapes and stuff and that's the way I kind of sang. But I don't know if I sing that that way as much now um there's certainly definitely an element of it, very much so, like it's uh, it was a big influence or whatever, but it's um, I suppose with when you bring in the guitar, it changes yeah, it changes the, the, the sort of, even the types of songs you sing, sometimes like you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then when it comes to you know, putting an album together which you've done twice now and Rachel's been on both as well, and you're kind of like the secret weapon on his albums, because the fiddle playing along with the songs and then the harmonies, because you are such a fantastic harmoniser, like honestly, so you can see where the um, the family trait is and the family talent is with coming through. I know you're so uncomfortable with the praise here, aren't you?
Speaker 4:it's hilarious um, yeah, no, I don't know. Like, I suppose, like when I was doing fiddle when I was younger, I would have learned a lot of slow airs and I would have had to go to singers. Like I remember going up to Art McQuarrie's house to see Helen God rest her and um, she used to record the songs for me and then I would go and learn them for you and Donnach Moore.
Speaker 2:So Donnach Moore convent in Donnach Moore County, tyrone would have been very, very well known in the area and further afield for this core gaelic they had the irish choir.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which, uh, there was a brother lewis involved in the school and other teachers, mrs mccrory and mrs ryan, and you are at mrs ryan and you mean and the beauty of this was coming from core coulee and been brought down the generations where you were singing all these amazing old Irish songs in harmonies, in three, maybe four part harmonies by times. Were you part of that?
Speaker 4:experience. No, that was before my time, but like I had seen the girls the legend lived on, yeah, doing that.
Speaker 4:But Helen was great at recording slow airs for me, you know, for competitions and stuff, and I was really it was really important to learn the phrasing, making sure the phrasing and all was right from a singer. So I think that's why that has really helped me with playing with singers, because you really have to understand the song before you even lift your instrument to back it or to play along with it. You know what I mean and so, and you have to be patient as well, like I know. You know I teach now and a lot of kids don't like learning slow airs because they just want to get into a rip of tunes, you know. But there's a real um skill in being able to play them play them and learn them properly.
Speaker 4:Um, and it really helps you with playing with a singer, like learning you know when to just step it back a bit, let them go in and then go in with something you know teaches you to be a bit more restraint in your playing. I think so. I think from learning those slow airs from a singer you know, even though I wasn't singing them, I was playing them on the fiddle and I think that's really helped me understand, like what Niall's doing, and you know being able to add something then on top of that.
Speaker 2:But you have to learn the song first yeah, so learning, learning the song, first the pace and and then also, I would imagine and again, this is something possibly, as you get older, understanding the emotion of it as well yeah, like when you're, you know, when you're 12, 13, you can't possibly understand the depth of the meaning of a song, especially if it's a heart-wrenching tale behind it or something like that. Oh, you don't even want to know the story, I know. I just like the change Exactly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh I like this melody, even though it could be about something really horrible.
Speaker 4:But yeah, so you can add that as you're older and I suppose you, just as you say, you develop it through your own life experiences you can put emotion into things. Um, you know through your, through your own experiences and stuff, but that that really helps. When you're playing with a singer, you know it's, it's, it's a different skill than sitting down and playing, you know, with another. I'm not I don't want to say a musician, because I'm not saying you're not a musician, but you know a melody player and it's, it's just, you just sit down and you play. Really, you know, you try and lock in with them, but it's a lot harder playing with a singer back and then do you think that was was recording your album.
Speaker 2:Then that, having Rachel with that understanding of what was required, did that help you to elevate the songs that you were trying to record?
Speaker 3:oh, very much. So it's like you know those bits that are added in and harmonies from Rachel, and that it would be em, she, she seems to know just exactly where it needs to be and it's sort of what is fairly natural that way, you know, and it's em definitely, definitely works for us, you know, and even playing with Damien too. Damien's great with that too. Yeah, Damien McKee, yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it's just sort of natural now, because we did start playing together a long time ago and even we would have sang in harmonies in that Shainsa group. You know, Rachel would have sang harmony there too.
Speaker 2:So we've been doing it sort of since. Just natural to you, as I'd say at this point.
Speaker 3:At this point, yeah, and there's not too many rows.
Speaker 4:Oh, sometimes there is as long as you just do what Rachel's doing, exactly. Yes, another way around, definitely.
Speaker 2:I'm only joking. And then how do you choose songs then? Um, because you know, if you're not with your grandest songs you're not keen on, maybe, um playing those with, uh, with melody instruments, um singing acapella, what? What makes a song stand out to you that makes you want to interpret it or add it to your repertoire?
Speaker 3:um, I think a lot of the time it's the melody.
Speaker 3:Like you know, the melody, seems, is the first thing that'll always jump out at you like um, but then if, if, if you like the melody, I, if I like the melody, I'll then I'll want to find out more about the song itself you know, um and like um, it's recently I've just been kind of trying to pick up more songs that I like the melody of you know, that I like you know, and even songs that you can do nice harmonies in, because we play a lot together and with Rachel. You know I play a lot with Rachel and Damien. You know I try to get songs that lend themselves to that, to the way we play as well.
Speaker 2:you know, you can almost hear their parts as you're listening to a song, or I will well, yeah, or or you know normally think oh, that could work, you know, that could work well, you know and that's uh, but normally it's the melody a lot of the time.
Speaker 2:That what I would sort of go for first and then and then when you're writing songs, because that's something you've started to do more and more first album was two, there was more in the second album do you write with the arrangement in mind as well? Do you know about how you're going to play this?
Speaker 3:I will. It'll be the melody again. Melody and chords. Like I would, I would just get.
Speaker 4:That'll be the first thing I'm just laughing here, because sometimes you're just in the middle of doing something and you go oh, I need to go and record this on my phone. You know you're cooking, and then you have to go.
Speaker 3:You obviously hear this in your head and you're like oh it could be only two bars, but it's like a wee melody in my head. But I could be driving or anything, like you know, so I'd have to record it into my phone in a voice note straight away. So but I some of the dinners were never finished, you know, rachel had to do the rest take over.
Speaker 2:Sure, we're all grateful for it, because it seems to be working.
Speaker 3:No well, I could don't do it too often. Like you know, um, like writing the songs, I would. I would be fairly like I would give up, give up if I thought it wasn't, you know, working like um, but it's something that, like, I still like doing a lot like you've been doing a wee bit more research and songs there in the last few years now.
Speaker 2:I know that the? Um some research you did with itma, the irish traditional music archive, resulted in your second album, the roving journeyman. Yeah, um, so can you tell me a bit more about that?
Speaker 3:um, well, I had got, uh, I had applied to the arts council for to do a project of research and songs and part of it was going down to the traditional music archive in Dublin. Grace Toland was there and she was great and showed me everything and it's like Aladdin's cave, you know, for folk musicians, like it's just there's just books and books and the stuff they have on their databases, and I was just, you know, know you could spend weeks there and I know a lot of people do spend a lot of time there, like. But I was doing that and gathering up songs and looking at the themes and songs and things like that, and that was helping with writing the new ones as well. So I took a couple of themes from old songs and revamped them and made new songs with them, but that was.
Speaker 3:that was all going well until March 2020 and then, so I was, I was, uh, I was had been down about, you know maybe four or five times down to the archive, but it was great, but it was, uh, cut short a bit you know, but that I had done enough. That would get me, you know. Let me finish the Roving Journeyman album.
Speaker 2:What were the themes that were coming through for you?
Speaker 3:Well, there was a lot of songs that were like, you know, the soldier going off to war and then returning, you know, returning home and like love and war, emigration, all those sort of normal themes. But looking at the songs would give you a lot of ideas, even lyrically and stuff like that, for writing the newer songs. So it was more just looking at the themes and then seeing what ideas was in within that theme and it sort of give you what you could spend.
Speaker 2:You really could spend ages in there, like the days just flew you know, when you're in there, you find it something that you're just genuinely very interested in, you connect with.
Speaker 3:Clearly now, oh, very much.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah down the rabbit hole and away you go and it's, but it's. It's more real, more tangible in your hands rather than just being on the phone.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, 100%, yeah and it's like the history element I love. I just love history, like, and even looking at old songs and finding out where they came from and or how old they are. A lot of the time you can never find out who old they are, um, but all of that stuff I love doing all that. So it's like it's it's like a hobby, you know, just a hobby sort of thing, you know. But the yeah, it was great and it helped, helped a lot, you know, with that second album yeah, the second album.
Speaker 2:How challenging was it, given that the first was so successful?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I kind of did a bit and then I stopped, you know, because I had to go back teaching, you know, in school, because music was like there was no With the lockdown and all the rest. So music was done and I was lucky enough to get back into teaching in a school near home and, um, so I kind of stalled it for a while and then eventually came back to it.
Speaker 3:So it was kind of um done in bits and pieces, whereas the first one was done for in a short space of time. So it was different that way, but it got there eventually. I know I remember saying to myself look, I'll just take my time with it you know, and whenever it's done, it's done, and that's what I did then.
Speaker 2:So but you'd also worked on your a book about your granddad in the meantime as well. That's right. That's right. So like it wasn't, as if you weren't busy, oh yeah, yeah yeah, no, that's, that's it.
Speaker 3:It was a lot of things, different bits, going on, so, but I hadn't made my mind up that I was just going to chip away at it, and whenever it was done it was done, type thing, you know.
Speaker 2:So and what's he like when he's coming up with an idea for an album?
Speaker 4:or yeah, I just find it very interesting because I can't understand what he's able to do. But I think the fact that you took more time and didn't rush it probably you know it. Things turn out better when you know, when they're not rushed like um, and you could really go back and look at things. I'm like no, do you know what? Actually, I don't like that.
Speaker 4:I'm going to change it um but he just goes off and just goes in his own wee bubble and and then when he's like, oh, what do you think of this? You know, it's great being able to hear it for the first time, because then you know straight away oh that's, you're on to something with that. You know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a good soundboard too like.
Speaker 1:Well like you have to be honest. Oh, I absolutely am.
Speaker 3:You know, but but no, it's nice. And then with Damien as well, it's kind of all worked out too.
Speaker 2:So you've mentioned Damien Lodes and Damien's coming to join you tonight to play at this Sunday song gig here in Maddens. How has this partnership, where it's not even a partnership because it's a trio of you three playing together and it's gorgeous and it so works. But how did it all start?
Speaker 4:I think I started playing with Damien first. I would have done the dance shows abroad for a long time when I finished university and that was a big part of yoga's world as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it was actually.
Speaker 4:It was neve. I was filling in for she, I think maybe she was going on honeymoon, she was just married. And then, um, liam, I had done another show previous to that with liam and and Liam asked me to Fill in for her While she was away. So I got to know Damien Through that and I'd never played With him before and I remember Practising the tunes for it and thought, oh my god, I'm getting to play with Damien, getting to play with Liam, like all of them. But I was like I'm getting to play with Damien McKee. I was so nervous like why?
Speaker 2:what was it about his music? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I just like you know, bioga is such a big name.
Speaker 3:Even when we were like you know, when we were in our late teens.
Speaker 4:Still are yeah, like they're just so big. And then you know, I'd never met Damien personally, but heard so much about him, heard him playing, thought he was. He is incredible, like, and I didn't know he was very young and naive and I was just nervous going to play with somebody of that standard who you really admired, yeah so I really I learned the stuff inside and out.
Speaker 4:I was like, by god, I'm gonna make a good impression here, try to you know that way. But um, so I got to know Damien through that um experience and, oh my god, I just thought he was the nicest person ever he's a gentleman like three and three and really, you know, took me under his wing and showed me the ropes, and I learned a lot from him actually doing that.
Speaker 3:And then I think then we had a trip to France a couple of years ago, yes, and we went with Damien then as well.
Speaker 4:We asked Damien and then he asked us to do bits on his album last year, which came out as well. So yeah, no it. Yeah, it just kind of blossomed, it sort of went from there it was pretty natural.
Speaker 3:But the trip to France was the first. I think it might have been the first gig that we did yeah, the three of us over in Albié.
Speaker 4:Celta Seams Festival Celta.
Speaker 3:Seams Festival and we went there and when we came home then we just decided to keep. Keep at it, keep gigging you know, but Damien was recording at the time as well.
Speaker 2:That's right, because she was at the two albums at the same time and then he did a double launch here in Belfast at Belfast Tradfest but it wasn't even a double gig, because it was, it was kind of, but yous all played together and all complimented each other.
Speaker 4:I suppose it made sense, because roughly the same musicians had played on both CDs here.
Speaker 3:So we just do one big set so it was great it was such good fun we did a good few gigs with. I think there was maybe seven, seven or eight so it was great.
Speaker 3:But, yes, we've just been playing with Damien a lot recently and and it's all very natural, like and as Rachel was saying, he's, he's just such a nice person and very easy to get on with, like and so it's it makes that makes it even easier, like yeah, and then whenever you perform as a trio, I imagine that it's very equal and what you do is tunes and songs, very ballast, letting everybody shine and kind of come through we do a mix of tunes and songs, and myself and Damien managed to twist Rachel's arm into singing a song as well, so she'll be singing later on, hopefully only
Speaker 2:one, we'll have it at one. I saw you at the John O'Neill weekend in Donnacht Moor in the state of Donnacht Moor. We were very comfortable a couple of years ago and you got some reception when you sang that night and people couldn't believe that you were stepping out a wee bit from behind the the backing vocals and the fiddle to sing. Why the reluctance?
Speaker 4:I don't know what it is like. I think it's because I play with you a lot, you know I just you're like, you're class, and then I just don't want to get up and ruin it not, you know, not ruin it but, I, just wouldn't have the same confidence at all we had to do a lot of a lot of encouragement.
Speaker 3:Like, but I don't know why like I know it's a bribe.
Speaker 2:Bribe in her a few drinks get the points lined up.
Speaker 4:Um, no, I don't know what it is. I think, like, when you're on one instrument, you feel so comfortable on it, and then when you try something new, it's like, oh just, it's not the same, you know. But no, I'm starting to kind of come into it a bit more. I love the backing vocals, though you can just, like you know, get stuck into something, but you're just nicely in the background, you don't have to be. I don't like being front and center of the stage type thing. I think that's what it is, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe that's your charm too, rachel, the fact that the talent is there, but that's, that's just not where you want to be at the moment. The two of you are from Tyrone, as we've established here, just slightly apart, just a few miles apart. How important is being from Tyrone to you, in your music and what you do? It's massive.
Speaker 4:The calibre of musicians in Tyrone. I'm just thinking of the Haydns Breed, clare O'Neill, and they're only about a couple ofrone, you know, I'm just thinking of, like you know, the Haydens Bridge, clare O'Neill, and, they're sorry, they're only about a couple of miles from where I from, dungannon, originally Hughie Heatherington, like that's what I would have grown up and it's all fiddle music you know a lot of fiddle music very lucky. Like to be exposed to all of that from such a young age.
Speaker 2:But in duncanan. It would have been like a bit of a sleeping giant there for a long time. Rachel were yeah, yes, you had the fort, but there wouldn't have been the, the exposure maybe for younger children to the music that was there, the, the legends that were living amongst them. You wouldn't have really known their stories and thankfully that that narrative is changing. Um, and I know there's a lot of people like you who are actively making sure that that happens yeah, well, like I mean, um, yvonne o'donnell set up the, the cultists in dungannon.
Speaker 4:So dungannon never had a cult, never had a cultist branch, as far as I'm aware, because when I was, going to school in st patrick's hall oh yeah, that shows you how ancient it is, I know St.
Speaker 4:Patrick's Hall. I used to go there. I used to dance in classes there as well, because I grew up in Dungannon too, I know, I know, up the clerks, but no, yvonne set that up and then it was massive. So we used the old convent in Dungannon and the amount of tutors we COVID came again and just took the wind out of the sails a bit but it's been taken over by another committee now and it's still going and I suppose you want to give something back, like to the community you're from.
Speaker 4:You know that's really important but, like Dungannon, like we would go to Quinns down Scotts Street now for tunes and I just love it in there. I know it's great you know we love Madden's, we absolutely love Madden's. But you know you can't come here all the time.
Speaker 2:Exactly Not.
Speaker 4:When you live at home, you can't walk home from here but to have a bar like that in Dungannon, you know we've taken our friend, like Damon and Emmons down, and it's always a great, it's a lovely the old timers that would do their session in there as well. But yeah, dungannan, there's music there to be had, it's just you do need to look hard for it.
Speaker 2:I need to find it and then, niall, you mentioned the Geordie Hanna weekend at the start of our chat today. You've kind of that wrapped up. A couple of years ago it had kind of done its time, and then recently there and a couple of years ago it had kind of done its time, and then recently there and a couple of years ago the Lockshore sessions have evolved, kind of taking over the mantle and kind of carrying on that lovely tradition of the first weekend in November.
Speaker 2:I loved how you set it up. That same weekend it was just really nice. But the Lockshore sessions so tell me all about those, because you're still in the infancy, but definitely it's looking like a weekend not to be missed yeah, like, uh, the the Geordie weekend finished in in 2017 I think was the last year.
Speaker 3:So, but, um, we I know sort of the myself and Ciarán and the younger generation it would have been, you know, my aunts and and the committee would have been running the geordie festival, but whenever it was gone, we sort of myself and brian, my cousin brian and a few of us were sort of saying, you know, we're sort of missing, missing having this and, uh, you know, derry tresk is a great place.
Speaker 3:It's always very welcoming to musicians and music and we had some fantastic years with the Geordie Festival. So we thought we'll try and revive it and maybe call it the Luxor Sessions, because the book had been done about my grandfather and the festival had finished and it was sort of like closing one chapter, open another chapter, you know, and uh, uh, so we've this is we're coming now into doing our third year of the festival now. So, um, it is growing, growing and um, we have a lot of good people, you know, behind it as well, and great support from the, the football club there too, which is vital like, and it's, yeah, we've had a couple of great, great weekends and we're all gearing up now for this year. So yeah, hopefully it'll be.
Speaker 4:I'm excited already, yeah, like we know who the lineup is, but we haven't released it yet, so we'll have to it's 7th to the 9th of November isn't?
Speaker 3:that the date yeah 7th. We had a go a week later this year.
Speaker 1:On point there, get it out there. Yeah, it's because of the Halloween.
Speaker 3:Because of the Halloween break. Halloween falls this year. I think it cl. It's a really good we might be alright for those who can't make it to Ennis.
Speaker 2:They could make it the length of Dariatresque for some good tunes and songs. That's right if previous lineups are anything to go by and you never know, we might hear from yourselves as well.
Speaker 3:Maybe at some stage you'll be probably playing sessions afterwards we organise a lot of sessions, but it's quite geared towards the singing, though still there's like a big singing session on a Saturday during the day, and sessions for kids too we linked up then with the Colas branch.
Speaker 3:There there was a session, and last year they actually did a collaboration with Ryan Malloy and Fergal Scahill. The two of them took the kids from the local Colas branch and did a collaboration like so it was, it was great. So we've uh yeah, we're gearing up for this year, so hopefully it'll go well.
Speaker 2:Seventh to the 9th of november, and that's the lock shore sessions. Follow them on social media and instagram. Now hannah and richard mcgarthy class to talk to you today. Oh, thank you absolutely brilliant to have this opportunity up Tyrone. There's a match on at the minute and we have no idea what the score is, and we need to go and find out whether or not Tyrone has survived in this year's championship.
Speaker 3:Fingers crossed fingers crossed, all the best. Thanks a million, lynette.