Why A Veteran Lawyer Wouldn’t Choose Law Again

In this episode we sit down with Denise, a veteran partner affectionately known by her team as “the final boss.” She’s seen it all, and she doesn’t hold back. From client care to the ever-growing mountain of compliance, Denise gives us the real story of what the job has become… and why she’s not sure she’d choose the same path if she were starting out today.

The conversation moves quickly and stays refreshingly honest. We dig into the tricky balancing act lawyers face: doing right by clients while navigating a system that seems to add new rules every five minutes. Denise shares what those pressures actually look like on the ground — especially in family cases, where court delays can stretch for months and every week matters.

We also talk about how the job has changed over time. There’s more paperwork, more regulation, and less time for the human side of the work. Denise compares the shift to what’s happening in other frontline roles too — from nurses to train drivers — where admin can sometimes feel bigger than the job itself.

But it’s not all serious. There are plenty of laughs, some running jokes, and  what really comes through is Denise’s calm, steady leadership and her clear sense of right and wrong.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Welcome to the extra slice.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Slice. Slice, slice, dice, slice. Is that caught on yet? If it's caught on and you say that with us, can you make a comment, please?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah, that would be good. Imagine if there was a comment that just came up, just went slice, slice, slice.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

I'd love that. I'm still waiting for someone to say it to you in the street.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

They will. They're just waiting for you to say it first.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

If you say slice, I'll say slice, slice. Do you say I say it when I go into Greg's?

Teasing The Denise Interview

SPEAKER_01 0:50

That's not the same, is it? Oh, Jamma. So Denise.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Denise.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Are you gonna go Denise?

SPEAKER_03 1:01

No, but I was gonna say oh I love her, but I'm not gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

I don't know what to say because I can't say anything like oh I love her.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Well you could just say what you thought without having to tell the y you loved her.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I didn't realise in all honesty, how long she'd been a partner. I knew she'd been there for 36 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

To be fair, I kept trying to work out which one she is, because it's like, oh yeah, 36 years. Well are you Bates, Wells, or Braithwaite?

SPEAKER_03 1:31

2007?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

No, 1998 and then 2006.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Then 2000, oh thought it was seven, sorry. That's when she then took it over.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

So yeah. Yeah, that's the bit that I thought, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

But yeah, I think I think there you go. Is Chris a partner? Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes, no? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Maybe we should have asked.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I know the podcast wasn't about Chris, it's about Denise. And the moment I brought up Chris, like, you're married, yep. Okay. So I guess we don't want to talk too much about Chris, so yeah, sorry about that, Chris. In case you were ever listening and going, Yeah, yeah, so I've been like married to her for 20 years. 20, you know, I've been with her for 20 years, 25 years, whatever. She might bring me up and talk about it. Nope, we did, and she shut it down. So yeah, that was that was that one done.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

And I'm glad she was never a bloody nurse.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, she would have I don't think nursing was for her.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Nursing definitely wasn't for her.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

No. Although she did seem quite appalled when I said, Yeah, I tell Doris, like, do you want one or two man-up tablets?

SPEAKER_03 2:29

She did. She didn't seem to like that very much.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

No. I don't know why though. It's not like I'm not caring.

On Caring Styles And Boundaries

SPEAKER_03 2:34

If Doris is ill, then caring for someone one end of the scale. Unbearable. You're the other end of the scale. No. Caring for someone. No. I think she's right there in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay, if I care for someone, it's because it's on a practical basis.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Like I'm not joking. Oh, I've got a broken leg. Let me get you two A E. Done. Does my job done? What else am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_03 3:02

You know, once they're back home with that broken leg. Sit in the back of the car, get as comfortable as you can, done. Would you bring them food and drinks?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

It depends.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Make sure they've got It depends. A new Netflix series to watch.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

It depends. See, that I'm not gonna do. Honestly, if they can't find something to watch, unlucky.

unknown 3:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

However, if it's a chore to get up and downstairs, of course I would.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Buy them all the food they like?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

When Doris has had COVID, I'd cooked four or uh three times a day.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Shouldn't have been nearer if you had COVID.

COVID Asides And Back To Topic

SPEAKER_01 3:28

I left the foot left the dude food outside the door. Food outside the door and knocked the door and ran away.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Well, that seems like crazy times.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

No, it's recent.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Everyone's mentioned COVID today.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Now we have.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Now we have, but everyone's mentioned it today.

Denise’s Personality And Client Care

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Okay, let's not talk about it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Oh no, I don't want to talk about COVID. What do you think about Denise? You've known her a bit longer than I've known her. I know her from like the networking scene and seeing her out and about.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I like Denise as a person. I think she's very nice, she's very amicable, and she's very friendly.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Agreed. What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

And I think and I think that came across on the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Oh yeah, it definitely did.

Friction With Compliance And Regulation

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I don't know how much I think I think that she probably has a massive care. If I if I had to like say something quite scandalous, and I'd better be careful because she will sue me. I I think she has a massive care for clients and doing the right thing. I think she's a little bit disillusioned with how compliance and regulation is stopping them doing that.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

She mentioned that a few times.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

And imagine though, being in that industry for And the fact that she wouldn't go back into it and if she could, she'd go out and paint signs.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Yeah.

unknown 4:44

Yeah.

Would She Choose Law Again

SPEAKER_03 4:45

That that kind of says everything to me of like for 36 years, you're gonna see a lot of changes. Yeah. A lot of changes. And yeah, when I asked a question, would you if you weren't doing it now, would you go into it? No. No. Didn't even hesitate, no.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, I think I think that probably says it all for me. But having Denise here and hearing her journey, and again, it's a nice thing where instead of having the standard well not the standard, but the, you know, I did this and then I did this and then I tried this and then I tried this and then I tried this. That's why I called her. What did I call her? Reliable or dependable or loyal or something.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Loyal.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, at the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

What what was she what do they call her down there? Big boss.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

The final boss.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Final boss.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Not that we'll do that one, hashtag final boss. Can you do it on the on the podcast post?

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Hashtag oh well, hashtag final boss. Final boss.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Okay, so come on then, score time. Hang on, hang on. Did we say we're not gonna score guests this year?

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah, we do say guests. Even though I've already just scored the last one. I don't think we should score guests this year.

Loyal Leader And “Final Boss” Tag

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Okay. Denise. Eight. Eight out of the year. So we are scoring guests then.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

No. When you say we, that means that you think you're talking for me. Which clearly, as you know me very well, is just gonna mean that I'm gonna do the exact opposite thing. Eight point. So guess what? You don't have to score if you don't want to. Eight point five. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

I think I've said it before you mean what did you say? Eight. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

I think it's a s I think it's a strong score. She was nice, she's fun, she's friendly, she's interesting to talk to. I liked hearing from her, but I felt almost a little bit sad.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Why?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

That you kind of commit thirty-six years to a career. That you kind of career where she's she's she she's made she's made a huge difference in so many people's lives. And dick pics?

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

But do you know what it would I for me it would just be nice if someone just comes along and says, here's five million Denise, I'll buy the business and retire and chill. Just chill.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Because I think that that would be lovely, and then she'd be able to go into the countryside and draw pictures of landscapes.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

I don't think that's what she wanted to do. Or paint.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Do you know what I mean? What whatever it is she wants to do, but I I think that, you know, when you go along and you think, you know, I don't have any time for train drivers. Uh let uh you hear where I'm going with this one. So train drivers, they go along and they get into the job of driving trains.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah.

Admiration Mixed With Sadness

SPEAKER_01 7:17

And nothing really changes. They just have to like start, start, you know, I don't think they turn because on a rail, I mean it's hard. And I'm sure there's probably more into it, but ultimately you get into a job to drive a train, and then 10 years' time you're going, oh, I want to strike. And it's like, why? The job hasn't changed, you're still driving trains. Nothing's happened. You know, you you're doing exactly the same thing that you originally signed up for. You know, you can't then say, oh, this isn't fair.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Yeah, but that's hours, isn't it? That's down to hours change, wages.

Comparing Careers And Changing Systems

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Not often. Yeah, and wages are going up like 50%. But anyway, ignore that. Anyway. What I'm saying is that if you get into that career and that's the job that you've decided to do, so that's the job you've decided to do. Denise has gone through, trained law, understood law, gone through, done some secondments. I'm happy that's exactly what I want to do. Bought in, got herself properly in at the head of a firm, and then the rules keep changing and changing and changing and changing and changing to make it more and more and more difficult to do what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

And you think, you know, how do you, you know, it's bad enough for us when we go, oh yeah, by the way, someone has to wait six months for a tax refund or 12 months for a tax refund. How do you deal with the fact when they're trying to deal with a like a family law case of the custody of a kid or something? And you've got 18 months and they go, Oh, yeah, by the way, we're cancelling that one because we haven't got a judge, it's going to be another.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

And this is something you've given your heart to for And that's people's lives that you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

That to me, that's like, yeah, that sucks.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Yeah.

Court Delays And Human Impact

SPEAKER_01 8:42

That that's why I just kind of go, it it's not fair. It's similar to nurses. You know, nurses when they signed up, they originally signed up to care for people and now everything changes, admin. Paperwork and admin and what have you, and you go, do you know what? You've spent you've committed your life to something that's changed that's not your fault, and now you find yourself kind of so embroiled in a career that you know, half the time you don't want to be in anymore. Yeah. Just because it's gone, it's not what it was. Yeah, but it's everything you know. So yeah, that's why that's why I felt a little bit of sadness for Denise.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Oh, well, she seems happy enough. She always seems happy, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

But she's a happy person. Always happy. But yeah, there you go. Eight out of ten for Denise.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Eight and a half.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Although, hang on a second, you underscored Gary, so that's all right.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Thank you, subscribers. Yeah.

Parallels With Nursing And Admin Burden

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Cheers, subscribers, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Bye.