32. The Best Date I Ever Had (And the Worst One, Obviously)

Honest conversations about relationships, self awareness, and emotional growth.

In this mega episode of I Hear You, Babe, Dino reads listener stories about their best and worst dating experiences and reflects on what actually makes a date meaningful or damaging. From calm, honest one night connections to relationships that slowly eroded self trust, this episode explores dating patterns, emotional honesty, attachment, and the quiet moments when your body knows something your mind hasn’t caught up to yet.

Listeners share stories about clarity without cruelty, consistency without curiosity, staying too long, being chosen out loud, and realizing that nothing bad happening can sometimes be the best possible outcome. Along the way, Dino holds space for disappointment, hope, and the very human urge to want something to work.

This episode isn’t about good dates versus bad dates. It’s about noticing how you feel afterward and what that tells you about what you actually need.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to I Hear You Babe. My name is Dino Malvone. I'm your host. And always super excited to have you guys here. A bunch of emails that you guys sent into IHearYouBabePod at gmail.com. And as always, a bunch of musings here from the big old Apple. Yo, we just got like literally 75,000 inches of snow. It was, I think they said, I don't actually know what the final total was, but it happened, it started on like a Sunday morning and then into Monday, and it was just wild. It was coming down like I think the first hour, it came down like three and a half inches per hour or something like that. So I think we ended up getting 15 inches. And like I think the snow here either makes you like feel romantic or like 100% feral because there, you know, there were people that were skiing across the Brooklyn Bridge. There were people, I guess like massive snowball fights happening in the parks, which is so cute. Me, what do I like to do when it snows like that? Well, there's a restaurant like not too far from my apartment called Dino. And I shit you not. It's a it's a little Italian place that's it was named after the owner's son. It's been there since I've been there, and it's I've been this same apartment for 15 years. So the the windows at Dino, the first two tables, like because there's a tiny bar, but right in front of the bar, there's two tables that sit in the window. And I've had so many like either moments where I want to go cry and I sit in that window, or I'll go and I'll sit like during some big snowstorm or whatever. It's so freaking cute. It's like the most romantic solo. And then Darius and I went and did it the last time it snowed, which was it was so cute, but it's weird. It gets like both the city gets like like quiet and somehow gets louder at the same time. And you know, I'm telling you, the the the life choices that people make in weather is like all the all kinds of choices that you would never make in your real life. So it's you know, I I also think there's something really nostalgic about the snow at this point. Cause do you guys remember back in the day? I mean, we used to like miss so much school that we would have to go into the summer. Like we would take classes, we would be in school till like the end of June or middle of June or something. And I can just picture all the people like sitting at home, like without, you know, a friend to phone, and all of a sudden you're like, you know, texting people because you're bored of shit. Like people start to go curk like stir crazy. You're texting people that you haven't texted in 20 years. You know, you're watching TV shows that you know you've had on your list of TV shows to watch for who knows how fucking long. And yeah, I don't know. It's just what what a great time to just hunker down and do absolutely nothing. Also, I mean, just incredible. Also, one thing I thought was so crazy was that as I was watching the news during the blizzard, it was like the the Broadway shows still still went on. And I I was watching some stories from friends that I know that work on Broadway. And it was like, you know, pray for the essential workers on Broadway today, because they were traveling, like traversing the city in like the heat of the biggest snowstorm we've had in years. And but I will say I didn't see this over, I didn't see this over during the blizzard, but I saw it maybe a couple days before with my one my friends Kelly. She's one of my besties, and she took me to go see Death Becomes Her on Broadway. And I had seen it like about a year and a half ago or something. I get like there's an app, I think it's called like Now Ticks or something like that, or Tickets Now or Tickets Today, or I can't remember exactly, but you can go on and do like lottery. So we got tickets to go see it, and it was just so freaking fun. We got it, was like we were on the third level, which was, I mean, at this theater, every seat's a good seat. And I have to say, it was so freaking good. It's high camp, it's vanity, it's desperation, it's like all the immoral shit. And it just, I don't know. I just I really think that sometimes the fact that I live near all this culture and all this fun stuff to do, it becomes like a thing that you have to remember to go out and and enjoy a little bit because you get so stuck in the day-to-day. I mean, babe, I go from my apartment to the studio. Then there's a restaurant that I love where I go and get like a burger pretty much every day. Well, I had to curb that a little bit because the belly was starting to pudge, but we don't at me grow. The the the day-to-day gets so boring. You forget sometimes, like I live a hop, skip, and a jump. I mean, that's why I pay the rent that I pay to live a hop, skip, and a jump to have New York City in my backyard, you know? And if I'm not taking advantage of it, then what the F am I actually even doing? So, and also look, the bottom line of that play, I think really hits because everyone's to be hot forever. No, and nobody wants to be honest about it. You know, everyone wants to say we're happy with aging. But yes, to some degree, I think we are happy with aging, but society says, like, oh my god, a gray hair. Ew. So, but anyway, I thought it was so I thought it was so fun. Also, it gives you a chance to kind of step outside of you know, the city and enjoy, I don't know, just a moment with a bunch of other, I don't know, well-dressed people in a beautiful theater, laughing. It was just so cute. But anyway, so the idea of this, I can't believe I've gotten to this point yet, but I want to tie this back into the the topic of the day, because you know, my bestie Kelly and I we went on like a cute little date, but the topic of this episode this week is best and worst dating stories. And I have to say, I am first of all shocked at how many emails came in because I I don't think I've ever gotten this many emails from one particular prompt. And but the also the the thing that I think is also fantastic about it is that we the the we're gonna read these emails. I I pop them into notes, so I have no idea who wrote them. They're always anonymous. And the episode's like 100% not about judging anybody's choices, but maybe taking a second back and like noticing them. And I think the best and worst dating experiences usually make sense at the time, you know, like in hindsight, is where the comedy and the pain live together. You know what I mean? Because you can look back and kind of giggle at it, but also remember how loony tunes it felt. So, okay, so I wanna let's just start to get into these emails because oh wait, I want to tell you one other thing. Oh my God, I can't believe I almost forgot to tell you this. On my way into the studio yesterday, when I was coming to teach.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Girl.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Okay, so my building has like one, two, three, four, five floors, and I'm on the third floor. So there's two businesses underneath me. One's a tattoo shop and one's like a healer, like crystal healing or something. And then upstairs, there is, I think it's technically supposed to be commercial, but there's a couple that lives upstairs and maybe some other, I don't know, random business. And then above there, there's like apartments where there's some NYU students that live there. And girl, like, I think sometimes you forget because when you're inside your apartment, you can't hear really much of what's going on outside. I mean, you can hear things in the hallway, but like it's not, it's not the same as when you're standing in the hallway and you hear things that are coming out from the apartments. And girl, I don't know what was going on. Well, I think I do know what was going on. But this girl was like legit. I'm not kidding. She was legit, very okay, how do I say it? A unmistakable adult enthusiasm. Does that is that the nice way to say it? I wasn't like scandalized in the moment. I was like kind of impressed with her like commitment because it was a lot. It was a lot. And you know, juxtaposed like walking through like a snowstorm where everything feels like very still and quiet. And then, like, you know, you come inside, and all of a sudden it's like someone is living their full truth out loud. You know, some people journal, or you know, some people may even go to therapy, and uh, and some people are just getting very busy behind closed doors. So, what anyway, look, everyone's coping differently. So, some people are falling in love. Some of us are for the very first time realizing what that means. There are some people that are staying too long and shit that they shouldn't, hooking up because it's, I don't know, coughing season. It's cold. They don't want to be alone. And I think all that stuff counts as dating experience. So, anyway, let's get into let's get into some of these emails. Okay. All right, this first one says I went to an only nominally co-ed school. It was something like three women to every man.

unknown 9:42

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

That was like mine. I went to school in grade school. There was um two boys and eight girls. Yeah, ten. It was something like three women to every man, so I had one quote-unquote date in college, not including my year abroad where I was pretty datey. Love to see it. We went to see the movie Diner. Honestly, the only thing I remember was the character who uh who obsessively mumbles lines from another movie. The sweet smell of success, in quotes, which is my favorite movie ever, just the best. I also know it's infinitely quotable script by heart. Wait, also, you don't want to watch anything like let's see, let's go over the list Terminator 2, Dick Tracy, Will and Grace, most episodes of Roseanne, the never-ending story, like the La Bamba, Dirty Dancing, like the list goes on. I get it. Like, there's certain movies where just like I got I I know the whole thing from start to back. And she says, I am just laughing away at like, oh my god, it's me. Ha ha ha. Cats in the bag, and it and the bag in the river. Ha ha ha, what am I? A ball of fruit, a tangerine that peels in a minute. And then the look on the guy's face. So that was a quote. So you were quoting the movie, and then she says, It the look on the guy's face, it was doomed. So you quoted it, and he was like, Okay, I'm embarrassed for you. He's like, Why is that so humiliating? Also, goodbye. You can go ahead and drop me off. He he says, the look on the guy's face, it was doomed. He never used deodorant anyway, and I wanted to be a comedian. Well, then there you go. Then we go to a bar and he ordered coffee. Okay, we're from two different places. You're gonna, we're it's never gonna work. The she says, the lengths we go to in hiding ourselves for someone, some connection or booty are unbelievable. While not the most disastrous thing ever, it's illustrative. Well, of course it is. I've had worse, but they are all pretty stupid, and this one was at least chast. Okay, so look, he wasn't doing anything too, too, too, too crazy, but but if he can't make you laugh, then uh you know what I'm saying? Or he can't laugh at your jokes, and it's a rapola. You can go ahead and drop me off. This next one says worst date story ever. Okay, many years ago I met this guy on a dating app. Okay. Seems benign so far. He was older than I and I was, and we chatted a bit back and forth, and he seemed normal enough. Uh-oh. Not normal enough. I think I think we know where we're going here. It's gonna go south. We agreed to meet, we agreed to meet for dinner for a first date. Disclaimer here is a disclaimer here is that I'd never do dinner on a first date anymore. It's a lot easier to make a quick escape when you're not stuck at dinner. I know that's right. I can 100% co-sign on that one, girl. And she said that's a lesson learned from this specific story. Okay, good. Well, at least we there's a takeaway. We love a specific takeaway. Anyway, we were chatting before the date, and he told me he was kinky. I said, that was fine. I was into some kink stuff, so I wasn't put off by him saying that. Okay, fair enough. Again, the whole point of this email exchange thing isn't is not to like, we're not gonna kink shame anybody. I hope. Let's see where this goes. I asked him what kind of stuff he was into, and he told me that he had a medical fetish, quote unquote. What does that mean? So I don't know what does that mean? Like, let me not make assumptions here. Okay, so then she says, okay, sounds so I'm thinking, okay, he likes to play doctor. Doctor. Okay, not doctor. Okay, add that one to the list. So I'm thinking, okay, he likes to play doctor, or maybe wants to probe me in a sexy way. Okay. Make sure you wash those hands first. Anyway, again, at this point, I'm not put off by this. Sounds kind of fun. He said we would discuss more on the date. See, now that's where I think I would stop.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Because, you know, that could go a couple different ways, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Like, you are decidedly engaging with somebody who is being a little bit vague, and that can seem odd, especially in this circumstance. I think. I don't know. I oh so okay, so he said we would discuss more on the date. So I go and I meet him for dinner a few days later. Conversation is fine, everything's going okay, and then the medical fetish thing comes up, and I asked him what that meant for him. Okay. I think the attempt at clarity is a is good. Is good. It's good. The man this man proceeds to say, I want to suture you shut.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Meet Scoozie?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

I said, excuse me. And he proceeds to tell me that his medical fetish is sewing my labia shut.

unknown 15:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

This is like one of those stories where you go from like, you know, you're like, you're like kind of giggling to yourself, like, I can't wait to hear like what he says or whatever. And then immediately you're silent because you're processing. And I maybe I just need everybody to take a breath with me because what?

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

So he proceeds to tell me that his medical fetish is sewing my labia shut. Okay, and I'm sitting there just astounded. See, it could ever be me. It could never be me. Girl, I would have. Do you remember those cartoons where the roadrunner would leave like a cloud of dust behind? That would be me. I would be bumping into tables, knocking shit over on my way out, like, no, no. And then I would have called the FBI. So on top of this, he proceeds to tell me that he's married. Oh. And his wife doesn't know about his fetish. Well, I could have assumed that much at least. I say, does she know that you're on dating apps? Nope. No, she did not. He was, wow, you're really, this is a this isn't a keeper. He was really fully on, he was fully on dating apps in secret, trying to find women who would allow him to sew them shut. My morbid curiosity gets the best of me, so I start asking questions about it. Nope. No. I asked him, You're sitting in front of a serial killer. I hope you know that. Who gets their vagina sewn shut? And why? This guy's got some unresolved stuff. I feel like maybe mom stuff. I don't know. He no, he was not. He was fully on dating ads. You asking questions. I asked him what made him medically qualified to perform that kind of procedure. Okay, fair. And he told me that he was pre-med for one semester in college. Not one semester. So do they even teach that first semester of med school? So now you're now you're now you can perform surgery. Got it. Okay, that makes sense. He didn't even have a medical degree, just one semester pre-med. He then thought my questions meant that I was interested. So he says, So what do you think? Are you down? I told him there was no amount of money in the world that would get me to allow someone to sew my vagina shut. I thanked him for dinner and got the fuck out of there as fast as I could. I love that he said medical fetish and then absolutely did not even like he did not mean like scrubs roleplay. You know? He's um, and actually, first one semester pre-med is actually the funniest credential I've ever heard in my entire life. Like that's not a that's not a qualification. You were going through a phase, okay? I have I have no doubt in my mind that you took that class because you wanted to learn how to sew vagina shut, you know, and the confidence to say, like, are you down after the reveal? That's seriously unmatched. It's f fully unhinged and woo. Okay. Listen, then okay, so I think and look, please, someone take this. I okay. I don't know. Okay, this isn't about kink, I don't think. This is about like consent and reality because I think kinks require consent. Consent also I think requires you to be honest. And honest means you're not dating, you're not dating while you're married, and you know, and I don't think you get to call something a fetish when it involves secrecy and or like zero medical qualifications. That's not kink, that's like a fucking red flag with a stethoscope. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're dressed up in scrubs and like the devil inside. The uh I think the other takeaway for me is like, wow, how nice. I mean, kind of these first two stories. Like it was like kind of like like women are conditioned to stay polite in like fucking insane situations. Like, I love how you stayed seated and like just kept the conversation going. Cause I feel like many of us are taught to be polite when like the bells are going off in your mind. I was uh when I used to listen, well, I still do, but I the girls from My Favorite Murderer, one of their like, you know, they have a bunch of phrases and shit that they say in episodes that ends up becoming like, you know, quotes. And one of them is fuck politeness. Cause, you know, it's I don't know if you stayed out of curiosity or like survival social socialization, you know, like how do I, what's the what kind of what do I do in order to like make my way out of this safely? And and also the last part is for okay, first of all, this is why we do coffee first. Like we, you know, that's a lot, that's a lot of information, like on upon appetizer arrival, you know? And and also the fucked up part that he like jumped to the conclusion that you were into it, because just because you're morbidly curious does not equal interest. You know what I mean? There's like some sometimes it just means your brain is trying to understand how you fucking ended up here, you know? And I feel like some I feel like men confuse curiosity with consent all the time. So anyway, love to see it. Wow. I okay, so let's get on to this next one. This one says, there's no subject. It says not really, not really a date, but I was going home from a rehearsal with my then bestie and scene partner. I was acting at the time. And I was very interested in this guy as the relationship I was in was tinking. We were walking along 42nd Street between 6th and 7th. Oh my God, this story is so New York. I feel like I should be paying for it with my Metro card. Honestly, like swipe, take my $3 because that's what it costs now. It was after Giuliani had cleaned up Times Square a bunch. But there were still two buildings that were dodgy on the block that hadn't been torn down. Yo, the the Times Square back in the 70s and 80s was a fucking riot. You could go down there and pay 25 cents and see like some girl shake her boobs at your face or something, you know? She says, like midnight cowboy stuff. Yeah. The one, okay, so wait. One floor had all these colored lights going with people in the window. And the lettering on the window said employment agency. And I'm all, ooh, look at that. What could that be? Hmm. Girl, they're looking for go-go dancers and and or sex working, because that's that's what those, that's what those lights are doing. That that's what that's what those men are, that's what those men are doing. And the guy looks up and says, let's go in. So we did. It was some artsy fartsy party, also very midnight cowboy. The guy looks around and sees somebody and says, Wait, I know that guy. So he goes over and says hi, and the dude ignores him. Okay. So you hate when that happens when you're like, oh my God, hey, what's up? And then they're like, no, it's the wrong person. He comes back to us and is all, oh, well, I guess not. The other guy turns around and then yells our guy's name, greets him warmly, and tells us to get a beer. He's all, why are you here? And then they chat, we get a beer and hang out. And this is the man that I that I married. Okay. Like, okay, any story that starts with like 42nd Street between 6 and 7th already has a vibe that I'm not, I don't know if I trust. You know? That area is so weird. And look, if the window says like employment agency, but the lighting is flashing magenta, I don't know that we need to be applying for those jobs. You know what I'm saying? It's like, but I will say the the the confidence of being like, let's go in with zero follow-up questions is like cool. But also very male, you know. So I don't know. This is what the I think this is what happens when you're adjacent to a bad relationship. And I think this is important. I and I want to name this thing didn't kind of happen in a vacuum. You said the relationship you were in was kind of tanking, and you were already halfway out emotionally. Your decision making gets like a little bit like on the experimental side, you know? Um it's it's not you're not reckless, just you're just open to some nonsense. And and I think that can be fun. And I think men also love saying, let's go in to things they don't even understand. So women are like, huh, that's interesting. And the men are all like, yeah, we're going in the building. No safety check, just like on vibes and curiosity. And the girlies are like, I mean, I guess we're doing immersive theater tonight, you know? So also, how embarrassing. There's I think there's like nothing more humbling than watching a guy realize that he's not like they don't know him there. You know, where he's like, I know that guy, and then the guy doesn't know him, and then like you got you know he was like he had a tiny ego death on his way back to you, you know. It's like the confidence like starts to deflate a little bit, not too much, you know what I mean? But anyway, I think this is a worst date. It's it this is worst date because it's disorienting, not like traumatic, you know what I mean? It's not a horror story, it's just like a little bit confusing. And you know, worst dates aren't always scary. Sometimes they're just like, I don't know, off book. I mean, I don't know how many of you girlies have ended up somewhere weird because you just didn't want to like seem not cool, you know? Not like unsafe, but like you had the wrong shoes and the wrong outfit, and it was the wrong light, and it was for sure the wrong dude, you know. Anyway, I'll also shout out to Times Square for always being ready to humble you emotionally because that place is just always a little bit too much, if you ask me. So, anyway, let's get on to this next email. This next one says, I thought consistency meant love. Okay, I met him right after I told myself I was done dating for a while. Okay, which should have been my first clue that I was lying to myself. Yeah. Yeah. He was consistent, and that was the word I kept using. He texted every morning, he showed up when he said he would, he never disappeared. After a year of chaos, that that felt like oxygen. You know, yeah, let me just keep reading before I make any assumptions here because sometimes like consistency like that can feel really safe at first, and then you realize like there's not really much going on beyond it. You know what I mean? Like consistency, meaning like, yeah, you show up and you do the thing, but like what else is there? Sometimes, like there needs to be more, you know. Okay, but she says consistency became the excuse I used to ignore everything else. Okay, see, that's what I mean. There sometimes could be like that, you know, they're like consistency can be like blinders, you know? Sip of my water. So it's okay. He said he never asked questions that went anywhere. Yeah. He didn't really want to know me, just the version of me that fit into his life without friction. Yeah. It says he when I talked about my he didn't really want to know me, just the version. Yeah. When I talked about work, he would just nod. When I talked about my family, he would change the subject. When I cried once, he got quiet and told me he didn't know what to do with emotions like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

I told myself, not everyone is emotional. I told myself relationships don't have to be deep to be real. See, I'm gonna stop you there. I don't I don't think that that's I don't think that that's I don't think that okay. I think you deserve whatever whatever depth you're looking for, you know. I told myself stability was more important than connection. All right, there's like some digging in there, you know, like we can do some excavating around that. But the worst moment came six months in sitting across from him at dinner, realizing I could leave, and he wouldn't really notice that I was gone. He would miss the routine and he would miss the presence. He would miss being partnered, but he wouldn't miss me. When it ended, he said he was blindsided. And I remember thinking how lonely it must be to be so consistent and still not be paying attention. Okay. Okay, that's like a sneaky one because on paper, homeboy looks like good, he looks like you like you landed a good one, you know. It's like the phone calls and the texting that happens pretty regularly, like remembering of day, you know, the things that you know, he showed up. There was like for sure some consistency. And if you told your friends this in month two, they'd be like, Finally, you know what I mean? But consistency is not the same thing as curiosity, and I think a lot of us learn that kind of the hard way. And in the line about consistency feeling like oxygen after chaos, I mean, sheesh. Yeah, I mean, when you've been in like a survival mode with whatever it might be, life or you know, other relationship situations or just like whatever other chaos is going on, like the the the bare minimum feels like a miracle, like, oh God, finally, like he texts back, like, you know, I'm I must be healed, you know? And I think that the the the part about consistency as a cover is that that's the part that hurts the most. Because you know, you begin to ignore all the other little things because it gave you something to point to whenever your gut was like, maybe this is not the right dude. Do you know what I'm saying? Like maybe you were like, uh when you would go back and forth, he'd always go back to being like, well, at least he's consistent.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

But you're like, you know, and but does he know you? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Because it's that part, like the dinner part, you know, where you had that big moment where you realize like you could leave and he wouldn't notice. I think that's the moment because it's like not about being mad about it, it's like feeling like a little bit invisible. It's not like he betrayed you in any way. It's like just feeling like you don't, you can't be seen. Like being missed for the role that you play is not the same thing as being missed for who you are, if that makes any sense. And also, dudes are always blindsided by things they weren't paying attention to, you know? You're like, sir, I've been quietly disappearing, like literally right in front of you. I don't know. I think we've all done something where we stay because somebody looked good on paper. You know, it was like not bad and it wasn't harmful in any way, but yeah. Eek. Why are men sometimes? Okay, let's see. Let's get into this next email. Boop, boop, boop, beep, beep, dee, dee, doop. This one says he chose me out loud. Love to see that. It says I dated somebody who told his friends about me immediately. That's always a good sign, I think. He used my name when I wasn't in the room. So he was like, Oh yeah, I went out with Donna. Not Donna. He introduced me confidently. He posted me without making it weird. One time someone asked him how long we'd been together, and he said long enough to know that I want to keep showing up.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

That's the whole thing. No one had ever claimed me like that before. I didn't realize how much I was bracing until I wasn't. I mean, a lot of us think we're like chill daters, like, you know, like I don't know. I listened to Carly Aquilino's Secret Keepers Club, as you guys know, if you've listened to this before. And it's so funny. Sometimes she'll be talking about the fact that like she'll go on dates and her friends will be like, So how's so-and-so? And she's like, Who? We so we're like, we're real low maintenance daters, you know, like we don't need any reassurance, but that well, I think we're really used to is like fucking uncertainty because being chosen out loud shouldn't feel like a fucking shock. But I think for most of us it does because you know, it's just kind of like par for the cores, you know? Next one says he walked me to the train. Okay, so I don't know if that's a good I think that's good. I don't know if this is a good dating story or a bad one. So let's see. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Beep boop bop. I met him on a Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Not on a Tuesday, which RD felt promising because the big dramatic stuff never seems to start on a Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I would disagree there because I think all the big dramatic stuff starts on Tuesday, because Tuesday is the saddest day of the week, I think. If Tuesday were a color, it would be beige. You know? I don't think anyone's like, Tuesday is my favorite day of the week. In fact, I think if you took a poll and shoved it up your ass. No, I mean, if you took a poll, I think Tuesday would be everyone's least favorite day. Well, maybe Sunday, but I feel like Tuesday's right up there. So she says there wasn't a ton of texting beforehand, no all day banter, no building a version of him in my head that didn't exist yet. We just met. We talked for a long time, nothing flashy. It was just easy. And when it was time to leave, he asked if I wanted to walk. Don't go walking in the woods, team. Stay in lit areas around a lot of people, okay? Because listen, if I've learned anything from watching 2020, 48 hours, and Dateline, every single one of them. I've I've learned that you never go walking, A, in a dark place or B in the woods. Just don't do it. Stay out of the fucking woods. Don't go hiking on a date. Don't do it. Don't. It was cold. He gave me his gloves, even though his hands were shaking. Okay. Guys are not allowed to be cold whenever they're around women. Straight men. Gay guys are allowed to, but like straight guys are not allowed to be cold. Why does that give everybody? It gives me the ick. Not you shivering. Stop it. Remember when men used to go to war? Now you're shivering on the train platform? Okay. At the train, he didn't rush. He didn't try to kiss me. He just stood there and asked about my job again, like he actually remembered it. When the train came, he said, I had a really good time with you, and I actually believed him. We did it for four months. It didn't last, but nothing bad happened. And honestly, that's the best part. Okay, nothing bad happened. That's like a very, very underrated best dating experience because you know there's like no chaos, or it doesn't seem like there was like any any confusion or trying to decide like whether his tone meant that he liked you or if the timing was right of it or whatever. And you know, I think for a lot of us, sometimes the best dating experience, because we're so disillusioned, I think maybe especially if you have given dating a decent try. Because sometimes the best dating experiences aren't like fireworks, it just like it's safety. Like I think that was nice. You know, you leave and you're like, that was really nice. And I think of us don't even recognize safety as attraction until like a little bit later, you know, until we've had enough worst experiences to understand what like calm actually feels like, you know. Okay. This next one says doo doo. Okay. I became someone I didn't recognize. Okay. It says my worst dating experience wasn't one date, it was who I turned into over time. That's brutal. I stopped bringing things up because I didn't want to seem dramatic. I pretended I was fine with things I wasn't fine with, and I waited for text messages that never came. And then I blamed myself for giving a shit. When it all ended, my friends said they didn't recognize me anymore. And honestly, neither did I. Again, I like I think in the same way that we said the last one, the last email, like great dating experiences sometimes can be kind of like quiet. They're not like fireworks. I think sometimes the worst dating experiences aren't also like big explosions. You know, like sometimes it's like what what is he what do you call that when you're watching like mud come down a hill? Erosion. It's like a slow erosion. You don't notice it happening until you, you know, you look up and you realize, you know, that you maybe in some ways have been shrinking yourself down for somebody else's ability to I don't know, for their comfort, not for yours.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 39:28

And then you have to grieve this is the fucked up part in these situations. That not only do you have to grieve the person that you lost, like the the relationship that ended or whatever, but then you also have to like grieve the version of yourself that you abandoned to make them feel good. You know what I mean? So anyway, I appreciate you sharing that email. That's really nice. Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

The next one says the best date was the one that didn't continue.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Okay. My best dating experience was a single night that never turned into anything else. Okay. We're giving you a we're giving you a golf clap. We're giving you a like thumb to middle finger, like, what is that gay clap? We met for a drink. We talked about childhood in a way that felt unguarded. He told me about a scar on his hand from when he was nine. And I told him about the way my parents used to fight quietly, like they didn't want to bother anybody else. At the end of the night, he said he didn't think he was ready for a relationship. And I he said it clearly and kindly without apology. And I was very disappointed, but I wasn't confused. That night recali. Why was he on a date? Maybe he just wanted like some company. Okay. That that night recalibrated something in me. I realized how rare it is to walk away feeling respected, even when you don't get what you want. I didn't have to reread his text. Yeah, you weren't like do it, you weren't, there were no mixed signals there, which is God. When people are honest instead of trying to make it better, they all they end up making it worse when they lie, you know. I didn't have to wonder what I did wrong. I didn't have to invent a story to protect my ego. Yeah, I know that's right. We all do that. The best part is that it reminded me that honesty can still sting without being cruel. There's a fine line between those two things, right? There's a fine line between somebody being honest and being mean. And, you know, look, I think that your gut is probably telling you the right thing here because I, to me, it seems like it seems like, you know, again, you might be like, why are why are we on a date? You know. But that's neither here nor there. She said that clarity can be a form of care.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

I think about that date more than I think about people that I dated for years. So, okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

What I think what I think is this is actually kind of beautiful if I'm being honest. Like taking a step back, because again, nothing dramatic happened here, like nobody spiraled and nobody disappeared, or was like doing a bunch of like make-believe, just like it's even weird to say this out loud, but it sounded like two adults like kind of just sitting there telling the truth, you know? And you know, when it comes to this kind of situation, I feel like the disappointment that you highlighted, it's like the kind of disappointment that is actually it's different than the disappointment from whenever you're like when you learn somebody has been dishonest. This disappointment is like survivable in a way. Because I think it's like the confusion is what fucks you up, you know? And I don't think we talk enough about how honesty can hurt without harming. You know, you don't have to like fuck somebody up for life just by being honest. And he didn't go, Steve wasn't like giving you breadcrumbs to make it whatever. And he didn't make it like your job to fucking decode every single signal that you were seeing that night. And what he said could of he said what exactly what it is that he was able to offer you that night, and I think he gave you the opportunity to like decide.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Honestly, I feel like that's kind of hot.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

And look, these experiences I think end up leaving you with like a little bit of clarity at least. It's really hard to kind of unsee. You're like, oh, this is what respect feels like. And and I think then after that, like every other situation that you come into that starts looking a little bit suspicious, you're like, hmm, you know. And you know, I'll be honest with you, I think that why this counts is like one of the best dates for me is like it didn't cost you any dignity, number one. It didn't leave you like questioning yourself. And it didn't like necessarily require a bunch of time for you to kind of recover from the fucked upness of it all. Some people fucking date for listen, some people are married for years and they never even get that. You know what I mean? So, you know, not not every no, not every no ends up being a rejection. Do you know what I'm saying? Like every once in a while that no gives you some look, you're armed now with an experience that's gonna help you I don't know, navigate the rest of the shit.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

And I mean, I don't know, I think that's kind of priceless, right? So okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

This next one says I kept waiting for the version of him that I met first. Okay, let's get into it. So this first one says this one says, my worst dating experience started out really well, actually. And that's the part that makes it the hardest to talk about. Well, look, if anything, I'm hoping that writing this email helps in some small way. Cause and sometimes like having somebody read your story out loud and give you some unsolicited feedback without judging you is kind of cathartic. So, anyways, at the beginning, he was very attentive and curious. He asked follow-up questions, he would make plans for us. He seemed emotionally available in a way that felt really rare. And then slowly that version of him started to disappear. It didn't happen all at once. It was just enough that I kept thinking he would come back. I was basically dating the memory of who he was instead of the person who was right in front of me. Oh man. We tend to do a little bit of romanticizing, right? Sometimes while we're in the situation, sometimes when we're out of the situation. But it's funny how the brain tries to gear you toward like just the good memories, you know? Every time I brought something up, he said I was overthinking that things were fine, that nothing had changed. And because I didn't want to be difficult, I would just believe him. But my body knew because I started feeling anxious every time I would see him. I would, oh God, isn't that the body's reaction? Like, girl, listen in, tap into that. That's like a visceral reaction to something that's happening. In I gosh, we do, we're so good at ignoring those signals. I replayed conversations in my head. I edited myself more. I became quieter and smaller. And when it ended, he said he felt pressured. And I remember thinking how strange it was that asking for basic presence had become pressure. We hate him.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

JK.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

We don't hate anybody, but he sounds like a fucking. Anyway, the worst part wasn't losing him, it was realizing how long I had been grieving something that wasn't really gone. Oh, that was already gone, rather. Not me reading the wrong, the wrong word for the most important sentence. It was realizing how long I had been grieving something that was already gone. Okay, you know why this one kind of like stings a little bit is because it starts out nicely. And I feel like that's always a trap. Like, no one would stay for the dude was like, no one would stay for this version if I showed up on day one, you know, like as who I am. And you I think it's his disappearing act that keeps you kind of hooked, you know? Because the beginning version about like being attentive and curious and like asking questions, that that's the version that kind of ruins your life because once you've seen that guy, you keep waiting for him to come back. And you're not dating a person anymore at that point, girl. You're dating the memory of that person. It's a they're different, you know. We have that, you know, I don't know. And like, listen, this this line right here, the I kept dating the memory of who he was instead of the person in front of me. That's the whole fucking thing. Because like we stay because we're like loyal from the beginning or to the beginning. From the beginning and to the beginning. We're like, no, no, no, I've seen his potential. But I think we get like at this point now, a couple stories in, like, you know, potential isn't presence, you know? And and and anytime someone says you're overthinking when you bring something up, that's not them reassuring you of anything, that's them shutting you down. You know, because they're not ready to have the conversation or whatever. So that you know, them shutting you down like that, it's like, you know, and the wild part is how quickly we believe it because none of us want to be the difficult one in a relationship, right? We want to be like, I'm like, I'm easy going, I'm whatever. But then, okay, then you said this one thing about like your body new, and it's like anxiety before seeing someone, I think is like inform your body's giving you info. And if you feel like you're editing yourself, I think that's info. And if you feel like you're not speaking up, you're having to like keep your voice quiet. I also think that that's information because your nervous system isn't being dramatic on purpose, you know what I mean? It's like literally, it's its job is to be observant, you know? So, you know, also I think this part is funny, not like funny, haha, but like funny, interesting, because like why are men? But when when you're asking for him to be like present and he says, Why are you pressuring me? It's like I think that's really interesting. It's like I didn't ask you for a fucking kidney, I just asked you to be like consistent and curious about who the fuck I am and what I'm doing. You know what I mean? So, you know, I don't know. I mean, I I think the worst part wasn't losing him, it was like realizing you were grieving something that was like already gone, you know? And I don't think you're crazy for missing who he used to be, but I do think that sticking around is not gonna bring that person back. You know what I mean? It's not gonna sticking around's not gonna bring the the the the original the original feelings back. So yeah, I've got one more I just scrolled all the way by it.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Hold on. Okay boop bottom. Okay. Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

This one says nothing bad happened. Okay. My best dating experience didn't look like anything special from the outside, but we met on a random weeknight, no big buildup or any dramatic texting ahead of time. I almost canceled it because I was tired and I didn't want to do the whole thing. Oh man, I know. Sometimes you're like, what the fuck? Like the amount of energy it takes to like go in and have a conversation, like the icebreaking conversation, it's a lot of work. She says we sat at the bar and talked easily, not impressively, just like really honest. We talked about work in a way that didn't feel like a performance. We talked about family without trying to make it charming. There were pauses that didn't feel awkward. Okay, that's good. That's a good sign that we're green lighting. And we both took booth. All right, add that one into the list of shit that I say stupidly. We both took our time answering things. At one point, I realized I wasn't monitoring myself. Okay. That's that quiet voice that that that's always sitting in the back of your mind that starts to like disappear a little bit. Not you being comfortable. I wasn't checking how much I was talking. I wasn't editing what I said halfway through the sentence. Look at that. I think we're seeing a common theme of when you feel like you're editing for somebody. I wasn't wondering how it was coming across. I felt like myself, which honestly felt rare to me. And at the end of the night, we walked outside and stood there for a minute. No weird energy. There wasn't a rush. He said he had a really nice time and asked if I got home safely. He said he had a really nice time and asked if I got home safe. Oh, the other night we walked outside and stood there for a minute, no rush, no weird energy. He said he had a really nice night, time, and asked if I got home safe. We didn't kiss, we didn't promise anything. Uh we didn't do the whole like, let's do this again thing in a way that felt kind of loaded. We did see each other a few more times. It didn't turn into a big love story. The timing was off on this one. Life was busy, but it ended kindly, which is nice. But nothing bad happened. I didn't lose myself. I didn't like question my worth. I didn't feel small. I didn't replay conversations, wondering what I did wrong. The experience reset something in me. It showed me that dating didn't have to hurt to matter, that connection can be real, even if it's brief, and that leaving something intact is sometimes the best possible outcome. I agree. I still think about that date, not because I wish it had lasted, but because it reminded me how I want to feel when I'm with someone. Okay, I mean, I think that's it. That's the bar. Like nothing bad happened. Why does that feel revolutionary to me? Is that, you know, I think the theme that we're hearing through all these emails is like no chaos and confusion is like, or like a what I what did I do wrong spiral is indicative of a pretty good date. You know, like two people just arriving as they are and leaving as they are. You know what I mean? And everybody leaves okay. And I think like a lot of us underestimate how fun and maybe even healing it is to have an experience on a date that doesn't feel like it doesn't require recovery afterwards. Because so many dates, I think, at least like from what I'm gathering, I'm not a big dater, but from what I'm gathering, and then from my own personal experience with my friends, you know, a lot of dates come with like a like an emotional cleanup afterwards, like emotional cleanup and IL2. Also, I loved I love that the best date didn't end with fireworks, it ended with like you leaving with your dignity, which is like I think a pretty good sign. So anyway, I guess I'm gonna wrap this up. I want to give you guys a Patreon episode with some of the extra emails that I got in after the deadline. But but I don't know. I think if you're listening and you and you're and you're like processing your own dating experiences and you're thinking like they were calm or it was the dude was kind or like nothing major happened, it's not boring. I think that's you know, again, I think that's information because your worst, if your worst dating experiences weren't dramatic, but just like slowly made you feel like smaller or less visible, that that's also info. And you know, we're not judging anybody's choices for picking the people that we want to go out on dates with because God only knows. You know, we've all stayed longer than we should, we've all had hopes for what it could be that maybe didn't pan out. I think we've also talked ourselves into things because we wanted them to work out so bad. And you know, the nice thing I think that I'm realizing by way of these emails today, which I'm really grateful for, is that you know, dating doesn't have to be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

It just shouldn't cost you you. So I guess if there's like a takeaway from this, and I do this with my friends too.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

There's a a simple test I think that you can do, which is like pay attention to you how you feel before, during, and after. And if you feel good about yourself or like less good about yourself, or whatever the case might be, I think that's like a an opportunity for you to notice what's going on. And you know, you don't have to make any rules about engagement by the by way of that criteria. But I think that it's a good way to kind of test how you feel and whether or not this person or these people are contributing to your life in a positive way or perhaps not. And listen, I really appreciate you guys for trusting me with these emails because again, I know a lot of people are curious and scared because they're not sure that the emails are going to come across as anonymous, but they're always gonna be anonymous. And I am really grateful for you sharing your stories with me. And listen, if you had a good time listening to this episode, please share it with a friend. Please go on to wherever it is that you're listening to the podcast and rate and review. That's certainly gonna help us grow the podcast. And stay tuned for next week's prompt. I'm excited to chit chat with you guys again. And as always, love you all. Talk to you soon.