36. Things That Should Be Illegal (Dating Edition)

Mercury retrograde is retrograding, it’s raining in New York, and I have started this episode eleven times, so if the vibe is a little feral, that is why. We talk influencer discourse and why some people stay quiet about big things, why Instagram is not the United Nations, and why Substack is where nuance belongs.

Then we pivot to joy, nostalgia, and the hunt for a real Pac Man or Ms Pac Man machine like the ones from my childhood pizza shop days. And yes, I am still side eyeing Dateline and 20 20 because where is the new content babe.

After that, we go full Dating Court.

Soft launch relationships where you are basically dating but nobody will say the words. Ghosting and then liking your story like you do not have a memory. The “I’m not ready for a relationship” man who acts like your boyfriend anyway. The 11 47 pm “wanna hang” text that is not a hang, it is a booty call with plausible deniability. Dating app pen pals who will trauma dump for weeks but will not meet you in real life. And future faking, aka selling someone a whole fantasy life just to keep them invested.

We close with the truth that rejection is survivable, but ambiguity will eat your brain alive. Clarity is kindness. Actions and words should match. And you do not need to decode the right person.

Send your stories for the next episode to IHearYouBabePod@gmail.com
and follow the weekly prompt in my Instagram stories at @ihearyoubabepod.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to I Hear You Babe. My name is Dino Malvone, and that means I'm your host. And this is the 11th time I've started this podcast this week. And you know, we're we're usually aiming for a one and done type of situation, but it just it does it doesn't feel like that's this week is Mercury retrograde on top of it's a rainy Thursday. It's coming late this week. So, but but also it's fine. It's no big deal because I'm gonna put the prompt up for the next episode and I'm gonna get right back on the the launching these podcasts on Mondays. So it's coming back, don't worry. I I get it. Some people are like, What happened? Are you on hiatus? It's like, no, you know, I was I did really well for the first like let's say 30 something episodes, and then like I man, I'll tell you what, you know, when the shit hits the fan, as they say, but but no, we're gonna we're going into the rest of the week, the rest of the weekend with you know, good vibes. Trying to keep the vibes high. We're trying to keep the vibrations high because it's man, the weather is really trying to pull it down. I'll tell you what, it's um it's gray, it's overcast, and it is just raining all day. It it this morning when I got up to go outside. I don't have a fucking umbrella, because why would I, right? But the I I don't have one here or at the house anyway. I have one here at the studio, but I whatever. I ran out this morning with Darius. We ran to the bus. We had to wait for the bus for a couple minutes. We we we kind of waited in, I don't know, somebody's uh doorway to their building was open. So we kind of like hung in the hallway of their building. Don't tell anybody. That's probably illegal, but yeah, we're going, we're going, we're going into the rest of the week with some good vibes. Because you know what? Because earlier this week, I'll be okay. So there's this thing that kind of I okay, I obviously was triggered at some point earlier in the week because I, you know, and we're I'm trying to figure out exactly the right side, which side of history I'm gonna be on. Cause I I definitely have some pretty intense thoughts about it. But then I also I it's the funny thing about me is that I can also be easily convinced of another. Do you know what I'm saying? Like if something's controversial, I'm like, I can see both sides. And this is a particular topic where I could kind of feel both sides. It's like, you know, talking about like influencer discourse, because I know it's kind of everywhere a little bit, at least if you're on social media everywhere a little bit. It's everywhere if you are on social media. And I know everyone wants to say everything all the time. And I just want to say this with love, and I'm gonna hold your hand whenever I say it, a la Carly Aquilino. And it's you know, it's some people are just like not built for the internet police. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that comes in for by way of opinions that come through like the DMs or it comes through in comments sometimes, not necessarily for me. I mean, I have had it to some degree a little bit here and there, but I'm not not I'm not at all, you know, influential to that degree. There's people that are constantly having to deal with this level of scrutiny all the time with every single thing that they say, but pop ba beep pop. And some people are genuinely like genuinely not qualified to like talk about certain topics, and and they think that if they say something wrong, then they're gonna get canceled, and then that ends up like hurting the bottom line. So some people are you know out there protecting their business, and and I I don't love it a hundred percent, you know. I but I get it, and you know I think what at the same exact time, truly, it's not actually a requirement that every single thing that you think and every single opinion of yours like needs to be showcased on Instagram, like babe, you know Instagram and TikTok is not the United Nations, you know what I mean? There's a there's a platform for each of these things. So I don't know. Sometimes I think like if you want like longer thoughts and if you want like nuance and the context, most of the people that you follow, I for sure, hit it, hit up their Substack. I mean, you know, it's not a place where you go and you like weaponize a quote tile like you would do on Instagram, but it is a place where you can go and dig a little bit deeper and get to know the people that you want to hear a little bit more and like find out, you know, it's it's because they have a platform, you know, it that you want them to at least lend support or you know be vocal about their opinion. But you know, some of the time it's like, for what? But I also get it. And I also get why some of you are are doing it, some of you aren't doing it. Some of you aren't doing it to keep that brand deal alive. And I I don't know if that's the right, I don't know if that's the right motivation. If you're asking me, who the fuck am I? You know, I think on Substack people can talk a little bit more like a real person because Instagram is there for like the vibes and these like high cheekbones and like you know the announcement of your you know new business coaching, I don't know, announce whatever, or like sometimes I'm really good at these like on a you know, a once in a while or occasional like emotional drive-by. Substacks like where you can actually sit down and take a second and write a thought out and like you know, rewrite it a little bit. So anyway, grace for everybody. Some people are gonna want to, some people aren't gonna want to. What are you gonna do? And it's so funny because the be people who are really opinionated about whether or not all influencers, whether they be beauty influencers or political influencer, whatever, I don't even know if that's the thing. But everybody wants to know, you know, who you voted for. And I remember back in the day, let's think about this. I remember back in the day when I was in like fifth grade, like learning about voting. And I can remember at the time, I think it was like during the first Iraqi war. Some of you weren't even born. This was like 1990. I I remember not knowing what the people around me who they voted for. Like at some point, there was like it was like a you know, people didn't put all their business out there all the time. Now it's like you can't go anywhere without knowing, and you won't even be friends with somebody if you didn't, if you if you know they voted for somebody else. So it's weird, it's weird. But I get it. I see it. This is one of those things. I get both sides. I'm back and forth. The pendulum has swung. So now, okay. Honestly, I s I remember back in the day, it was like 1990, and we were like, well, what happened to just playing video games? You know? Also, by the way, by talking about video games, I you know how I grew up in a pizza shop. My dad's pizza shop was called Serena Pizza. Yeah, we had Serena Pizza One, two, and three. But the one that I actually like spent the most of my time growing up in was three. And we still sold that. I think when I was my they they sold that whenever I was eight. And my mom bought a they bought a restaurant. But I remember Serena Pizza Three like so vividly. Because, and then after Serena Pizza closed, my dad would always take me up to my uncle Vinny's pizza shop, which was called J S. J and Jerry and Sal were my uncle and my my uncle's cousin. Js pizza had a Pac-Man machine where you sat down. You could sit down, one person sat on one side, one person sat on the other side. It was like a it was like a bistro size table Pac-Man. And you could play junior Pac-Man, sometimes regular Pac-Man or Miss Pac-Man. And there were times when we would get a machine that would allow you to play like all three. At my dad's pizza shop at Serena Pizza, we had like a standing one. We had a standing Pac-Man machine. I want to say this with regular Pac-Man or Junior Pac-Man. Junior Pac-Man is the one where the screen gets big, it goes side to side. It's like, it's like the the board takes like six years to finish. And then there's Miss Pac-Man, which is like it's there, Miss Pac-Man and regular Pac-Man are kind of similar. But I'm looking for a used one for the studio, like an arcade version from like the 80s, just because like I it's it's nostalgia for me. And like, I man, I just think it'd be so cool. It's very New York, and like I don't think I don't see any other studios really having that much fun in the studio space. It's all so I don't know. Here's your wall props, and here's my posters of like girls in their tube socks. I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Not to sound hateful or anything, but like, don't act like you're the most creative when all you're doing is like you painted a different color and you and you started a new bar class and you're calling it like Epic. Like, girl, Epic? Okay, Epic is Pac-Man. So okay. The joy I feel like the Pac-Man machine could bring, you know what I'm saying? Before I move on to the next topic, because I I keep thinking about like what that would actually look like. You know, like I don't know. I just feel like it would be a moment. Maybe that's the gay man in me or something, but I feel like maybe we need a moment. Like, I want a real arcade machine, you know what I mean? And I like I said, it could be Miss Pac-Man, Junior Pac-Man, or regular Pac-Man. So if any of you listening has access to one of those machines, I need to know. I need to know. Also, what I would like to know is your feedback on the the influencer thing, too. Because are are do we want our influencers to like be out there or do we want their staying in their lane? I mean, I'm confused. I don't know. I'm just curious what you guys think about that. Anyway, I'm keeping my eyes peeled on eBay. I'm looking online for a used Pac-Band machine, so keep me posted. Also, I really feel like I've turned over a new leaf. And then we're gonna get into these email. I swear to God, because what are we even yapping about? But I did I wanted to say, I think I've what I think I've turned over a new leaf when it comes to my consumption of true crime. Not that I'm like I'm giving it up at all, because that's not that wasn't even where I was going with this. But the idea that I I used to so okay, think about the three top sort of like true crime TV, whatever you call those. There's Dateline, there's 48 hours, and there's 2020. And I was fortunate enough to be able to meet Lester Holtz, but I will say that I have, and if you were told me to ask me to rank them earlier, I would say 48 hours, 2020. No, no, sorry. I would say dateline 2020, 48 hours. I'm gonna switch, I'm gonna switch my opinion. And to know me is to know that like one of my one of my favorite things to say is that I reserve the right to change my mind. And I want you to I want you to retain that right too. It's yours. You can keep that. But I think 48 hours is starting to is having a come up situation. Now, here's why what we'll I will say this they all have podcasts that do like the after show where they talk to the person who produced the episode, they talk to the host of the episode, and so they give you like some back behind the scenes of the episode and maybe like a clip of an interview that didn't make it to air. So there it's but it's and it's fun. I will say that the 48 Hours podcast is my maybe my least favorite. I will still listen to it because I listen to all of them. But I've been I've been watching a lot of 48 hours episodes. And for those of you who don't know, I also have uh the true crime podcast, I fear you, babe. And I'm just covering a bunch of cases that I've been kind of enthralled with. Next up on deck, I think we're doing the Murdaw murders. We're also gonna be doing, I did the Delphi murders. We're actually gonna do another episode where we kind of talk about how maybe they got it wrong because there is somebody that was convicted of those murders. But we're also gonna be doing the Idaho murders, and I'm also doing a weekly update on just stuff that's happening currently right now, too. So, but anywho, you know, the the thing about I like about 48 hours, and I think that I've gotten a little bit more used to it, and uh, they all feel like that they it's like either even the new episodes feel like a rerun or like it was like or like it was edited in 2009. You know, it's like I it just it looks it seems like you know they really stuck to the formula and it's really fucking working for them. But like so what I'm what I what I would say was maybe I okay, I'm just gonna gently nudge and say maybe I need them to wake up a little bit, stand up, but I need them to go, okay, fine. This season we're gonna come back with heat, you know, because right now I'm carrying the whole true crime TV ecosystem on my back with 48 hours and a prayer. I need, I need some new, I need I've seen every single episode. I need like a little bit, I don't know, I don't know. I need a little bit something something new. Anyway, that's where my brain is. Who knows what the fuck I'm even talking about right now. We are still giving grace. We're we're putting we're putting the the nuance on Substack. We're returning to fun. We're gonna get that goddamn Pac-Man machine. Because I feel like Pac-Man machine indicates somebody who has good taste. And looking over there at Dateline, like, girl, when you coming back with a new episode. 2020, where you been? Where have they been? So anyway, all right, so let's get into this new let's get into today's topic. I can't even believe we haven't even mentioned this at all yet, but today's today's topic is uh should be illegal dating edition. I know that's right. But and you know, I have to be honest, like I haven't been on a date really since it's been it's been oh gosh, two almost two years since Darius and I started dating. And man. I don't really envy look. I don't know. I to in some way, shape, or form, I thought I was gonna be single for a while because dating is actually such a nightmare. And I don't know if you know, I don't know if you know, but dating here in New York City is like even worse than dating anywhere else. I don't get it. I really don't. There is something about like people feel like every 10 feet there's like something better coming their way. Girl, get it. Have the best time. And I I think that if you ask a lot of the people here at women, I you know, most of my friends are women, but like I would I would assume pretty much any cohort of individuals that's single here, it's like it's too much, you know. But anyway, so let's get into these emails, girls, because you know, when it comes to dating, I feel like you know, when I posted this, I immediately got a handful of like like good long emails. So excited for the episode. I haven't read these yet, so but I know you guys are like a little bit feral when it comes to talking about these men out here, so or whomever it is that we're talking about. But listen, we're gonna keep it cue, we're gonna keep it smart. Let's go, let's fucking dive into these emails. Let's see, guys. Keep me posted about the Pac-Man machine. Seriously, no, for real. This first email says the soft launch relationship should be illegal. Okay, dear Dino. I found you from your podcast, not fitness. Oh, thank you so much. But now I'm deeply invested in your cats and your ability to say what everyone is thinking. Aw, thank you. Here's what should be illegal in dating right now. Cannot wait to hear. The soft launch the soft launch relationship. You know the one. You're basically dating, and you're sleeping together, you're spending weekends together, you have a toothbrush there, you've met friends, you have inside jokes, you're doing errands together like a married couple, he calls you babe, you call him babe. It's a relationship, except nobody has ever said the words. Girl, this is a I would call, I used to call this being taken on a long test drive. Back in the day, I kind of was seeing this guy. I won't, I'm not gonna say who he was, but he was on a reality TV show at some point, and we were like, you know, friends slash dating or sleeping together, you know what I mean? I I was doing a lot of things that you'd feel like maybe you would do as a couple, but I I was too afraid to bring up like whether or not we were dating, and I because I knew he would be he'd probably tell me no. So I just kind of want to live in that little space where we were doing things like we were dating, but it was like if I would bring it up, it probably felt like it was gonna be weird. So I get it. She goes on to say, and if you bring it up, you become too much. One million percent. This happened to me for nine months with a man who acted like my boyfriend in every possible way, but refused to say boyfriend. He'd say things like, I'm just taking things slowly, or labels freak me out. Meanwhile, he was literally folding my laundry, like, sir, what are we doing? Right. Then one day I realized he was soft launching me so I could soft launch exiting when someone else came along. Uh huh. Because that's the point. It's a relationship without accountability. One babe, can we is can let's get you a microphone. We need to get you a microphone andor a loudspeaker because this thing, this thing, it sounds like must be more common than I thought it was. I thought I thought it was a long test drive. Now you're calling it the slow launch. All right. It says the ending was brutal. He didn't cheat exactly. He just slowly stopped initiating. And then when I asked what was going on, he said, I don't think I'm ready for anything serious. Nine months of toothbrush, there were holidays, and you're not ready. I felt stupid technically because I technically agreed to it by saying, by staying, but I also feel like people use slow to mean I want girlfriend benefits without girlfriend responsibility. So, yes, soft launch relationships should be illegal. I want dating court. I love when you guys sign your actual names because I'm not gonna read them out loud because they want to maintain your anonymity, but I do I do appreciate it. I've had I I've told you I've had people like actually open up like mock email addresses so that they don't so I'm like, I'm not I've never given anybody up. Sorry, by the way, I found my Awala. Seriously, I don't think I had a sip of water while it was missing. It was like once I was reintroduced to my I was like so welcome to me being like so freaking hydrated, it's insane. Okay, first of all, the toothbrush should be a legally binding contract. What like if my toothbrush is at your house, I'm entitled to some clarity around what the fuck is going on. Cause that seem you know the soft launch relationship, as you put it, it's a hard, it's a hard one for me to it's a hard one for me to articulate. I think it's the biggest scam of our entire life. I consider it the long test drive, but it's like being in a lease that you like actually don't you it's not signed. So you're paying rent with your emotions, but and then like the building is like, well, we're kicking you out because you really actually didn't have a contract to live here. You know what I mean? Like you said, you're not really a tenant, so you gotta go. And like the whole thing about like the labels freak me out is like the first person who's gonna be like, Oh, wait, so what what I like you want it to be like, what so what iPhone do you have? And you'd be like, Oh yeah, iPhone 17 Pro Max. Oh, so you like that label? Okay. I got it. For sure, their fantasy football calendar is highlighted in pink, blue, yellow. You know, it it's like highlighted. It's organized. You know what I mean? There's there, it's labeled. So he says I want to label you because like whenever you get when when you get the label that comes with like some responsibility or like accountability, like you said. Those are hard words. And you're right, it's like girlfriend benefits with no boyfriend responsibility there. It's like girl, it's like the it's like the Costco membership of dating. You get your intimacy in bulk, and then but there's like no commitment, leave at any time. It's I don't know. If you're touching my underwear and you're folding my laundry and shouldn't call me babe, and and you know, you're not like a free spirit, you're in a relationship, babe. So I don't know. These guys keep they they keep that that they keep that door open because it's like an exit, it's a good exit ramp ramp, if you ask me. But who knows?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

So the next one says the post-ghost like should be illegal.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Okay. The post-ghost like. Okay, so like they ghosted you and then they like something. God, internet culture is crazy. I grew up without even the internet. Can you imagine? Okay, so it says, Dear Dino, I used to take your classes at Gibney once in a while back in the day. Now I listen to the podcast on my commute and I scream into my steering wheel like I'm a normal adult. Well, thank you so much. Gibney feels like 17 years ago. I was talking about that the other day. That place is I I actually had to go back and just for nostalgia purposes because that was when I was like launching Salt Drop. I launched it at Gibney, which is all in Tribeca and in Union Square. It's a dance studio. But um, I I rented the one in Tribeca, and and I have longing memories of that place. Strange because how we romanticize everything in retrospect. But so it says here's what should be illegal. The post-ghost, like when a man goes to you, like fully disappears with no explanation or closure, like just evaporates, like he joined a witness protection program. And then three weeks later, he likes your Instagram story. Or like watches every single one. Girl, I got some haters in my life that watch my boyfriend's stories because they're blocked on mine. Pathetic. So, but or sends a reaction to a selfie like you're I didn't I take that back. It's not pathetic. It's just a little sad. Or sends a reaction to a selfie like you're not a person who has a memory. This happened to me with a guy I dated for two months. It wasn't, it wasn't casual. We went on like real dates. He stayed a over, he met my friends, we had sex, we talked like every day. Then one day he just stopped responding. And I did the thing where you send the double text and then you pretend that you didn't. I felt humiliating. I was like, okay, message received. Yeah. The non-response is a response, but it's not very satisfying one. Okay, I'm probably good. And knowing me because I'm so annoying, I can't, I can't leave. I if I see that you left me on red. No, I can't. That's when that's when I have to start. Listen, I'm doing a lot better now because I'm 45, but but back in the day, I needed to get the last word. And guess what? If you weren't gonna respond back, I was gonna keep going. And I didn't care if it looked crazy. Girl, what are you gonna do? Sell it to the tabloids? They don't care. Then three weeks later, he likes my story of my iced coffee. She said, Literally, my iced coffee. Like that was his way of saying hi. I wanted to throw my phone into the Hudson. Why do men think they can re-enter your life through a story reaction? Like it's a tiny little apology. It's not cute, it's not flirty, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing, illegal. All right, girl. The postghost like is like the most cowardly form of communication. I feel like it's like a drive-by, you know? It's like knocking on the door and then running away because I don't know. But but also like to like the ice coffee, that's a pretty benign. It's not like it's not a compliment. It's like I just want to see if you'll respond to see if like to feel out whether like doing any emotional labor will get them closer to you or not. Again, like they don't want you, they they're looking. I mean, look, it feels in this instance, like maybe he's not like looking for you, but they want access to you. And also like ghosting is I'm learning this because I I I like I am conflict avoidant, right? But I need everyone to stop acting like ghosting is normal because it's not normal, it's just like lazy and a little bit emotionally unsafe and just a little bit cowardly because we can say what we need to say if we feel justified in saying what we need to say, we can separate the problem from the person, right? So we can say, like this thing that we're doing is like that that bothers me and I hate this. It's not an attack on the actual person, but we're we're communicating what our boundaries are and and where. Anyway, but anyway, disappearing on somebody isn't giving it's not communication, it's giving like Casper, the friendly ghost, Casper, the wussy ghost. Anyway, I feel you on that. The next one says, I'm not ready for a relationship. That man should be illegal. Hi, Dino. I don't know you from Salt Drop, okay, but I found the podcast from a friend. Oh, thank you so much. You guys, that's how the podcast grows, right? You gotta tell a friend that, like, I don't know. If you're having a good time, like let a friend know, you know, and uh, and it's kind of cute how it's been growing because it's basically just like a word of mouth situation. Like I don't really do too much promotion, promotion. Okay. Put that one on the list. I don't do much promoting of it on the Instagram. I mean, I'm I'm really loving just like reposting memes that I think are hilarious on the I Hear You Babe Pod Instagram account. But anywho, this one says, Dear Dino, I don't even buy but by here's what should be illegal. Men who say I'm not ready for a relationship, but still date like they're in one. I dated a guy for almost this is kind of similar to the one that we just had, right? Because I feel like it's like a long test drive. I dated a guy for almost a year who said he wasn't ready. I tried to be chill. Aren't we always like trying to be chill? No, babe, it's fine. No, I don't have any questions. No, we're good. Yeah, no, totally. I tried to be cool. I tried to be the girl who doesn't push because I genuinely liked him and I didn't want to scare him. I know. And then and then what? You scare him in what? If we could just continue to play out the scenarios a little bit more, I feel like we could get a little bit more out of these experiences, but sometimes we just like stop. We're like, oh God, well, I can't do that. What would happen if so then we we should just play out? What would happen? We did everything couples do. We did trips and holidays, we had friends together. He called me his person. We had Sunday routines. Sunday routine is like this is a that's a sacred day, you know what I mean? We had sex like it meant something. Then one night after we went to a wedding together, I was feeling brave and I said, All right, what are we doing? God, that's so relatable. Man, I've had that conversation so many times. Jesus. And he said, I told you I wasn't ready. Like I was the idiot for forgetting. This is gaslighting, I think. Am I wrong? I feel like I have been tricked into emotionally investing and then blamed for expecting something because of it. It was like ordering a meal and then being told you shouldn't have expected food. Right? What the hell is the rationale behind that? And then and then you feel and then you're in your mind, you're like, am I crazy? For being logical. Two months later, he started dating someone else and made it official within six weeks. So I guess he was ready, it just wasn't for me. Well, girl, good riddance. In these cases, sometimes it's like that that I'm not ready, man. He is so classic. I think that's like a full-on brand. We needed a line of t-shirts and say, I'm not ready.

unknown 31:42

What?

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I'm an I'm not ready, man. If you guys try to steal that, I'm gonna sue. He's a full-on archetype, like he has fucking merch. Oh Jesus. Okay, so but here's the thing like I think people aren't ready genuinely sometimes, and that's real. But if they're doing relationship type activities with you and not and and they're not not ready, then they're ready for the fucking benefits, but they're just not, and they're ready for like the companionship and the person to watch a movie with, to fuck, and like have routines with on Sunday, like we go get coffee together. They want to feel like someone chose them. They just won't don't want to choose you out loud. And you know what? Who the fuck has time for that? It's and the way they throw it back in your face, like I told you, is 100% manipulation 101 because it makes you feel like you're the one who's like crossed the boundary when the boundary was like never clear because the behavior doesn't match the actual words. And that's not my problem. And when and when they become official with somebody else really fast, honestly, it doesn't mean that you weren't enough. It means that you were just fucking convenient for them and they were like keeping you warm and also hopefully you got some good sex out of it because you deserve someone whose actions actually match up with the words. You know what I mean? And oh man. Crazy. What these men out here just acting crazy. The next the next email says the the do you want to hang text at 1147 p.m. should be illegal. All right, so here's what I would say about the 1147 p.m. At least it's not 1247 a.m. You know what I'm saying? But okay, so it says, I have been follow- dear Dino, I have been following you since bar three. Oh, thank you so much. Not in a creepy way. Oh. Good. That's good. That's really good. But in a you taught me how to breathe through discomfort way. And now I'm oh, thank you so much. And now I'm writing to you about my dating life, which is humiliating, but here we are. Okay. I so here's what should be illegal. The 11:47 p.m. Are you up text? Or the version that's pretending to be innocent. Like, do you want to hang out? No, I don't want to hang out. It says it's midnight. Hanging is not a thing. Okay. This is not a port swing. This is a booty call with plausible deniability. Okay. This guy I was seeing used to text me after the bars would close, always with the same tone. It was like very casual, friendly. Like he just happened to think of me at the exact moment when he was horny and lonely. All right. That's a nice sign for someone to think of you. No, I mean, would you rather them not? No, I know what you mean. I would go because I liked him, because attention is addictive, because I wanted to be chosen. And then the daytime, he'd be busy. I sprained my eyeballs, by the way, right after that. No plans, no dates, no effort, just midnight summons like I'm his Uber. The final straw was when I told him I actually want to go on a date, and he said, I don't really do labels like that. No, of course you don't. All he does is late-night drop-ins, she says. So yeah, make that shit illegal. Girl. You are not the after hours option, okay? You're not like the and you don't have to be his nightcap either, to be honest. Like there's like last call on appetizers, you know. But I think we all know that that 1147 p.m. text is not about romance. Like, it's about you convenience, maybe. I you know, the thing is, like, you know, people want to defend that late night behavior and say, like, well, what I can't text you, you know, like yeah, you can fucking text me. But if you only remember whenever you're like high or drunk or lonely or horny or bored or whatever, that's not like cons that's not a connection, that's actually just like consumption, which is like dehumanizing. So all I, you know, I and I need women and men and like the girlies and the dolls and the gays and everyone to stop acting like you know, accepting breadcrumbs from somebody is normal because at least it's like something. No, the only thing that it at least is is disrespectful. Daytime effort.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Sorry. I've met a runny nose for the like last four days, but daytime effort is like the actual tell.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

I think if they wanted to like talk to you, they would claim you in like the daylight, you know, like don't be all vampire and like it's not me know about the what are you doing text. Like I also hate hang. Hang where? Where are we going? What are we hanging off of? Go hang with your therapist and sudden.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

You know what I'm saying? The next one says dating app pen pals should be illegal.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Dear Dino. I don't know you, I just love the podcast. Oh, thank you so much. You make me laugh, and then you say something that makes me stare into space for 10 minutes. Well, here's what should be illegal dating app penpels. People who will talk to you for weeks, full on conversations. I never had good luck with dating apps. Like I but I I probably was this person too, because it would be like a chat, and then who knows? Like, I would forget that I even had the app on my phone or something, you know what I mean? But full conversations, flirting, voice notes, long text, deep questions, trauma dumping, not trauma dumping, sharing playlists, good morning text. That's a lot. But they will not meet you ever. And that's called girl, there was a whole TV show about it. What's on MTV? It's called Catfishing. You can't, and that the guy who uh was the host of the show, his name was Nev. He looked just like me. Well, he he looks like me because I'm pretty much I'm I'm 99% sure that he I'm older than him. But yeah, there was a whole TV show about this girl. It's called Catfishing. Yeah, I mean I guess so here's what I would say You know, whenever it comes to whenever it comes to that kind of stuff, Pen Pals that era needs to end. You know, it's like dating apps are turned into like the you know, when you go like going to get Costco samples, you know, people want a taste of the impest intimacy without tasting it. Like they want like a little bit of like they want to taste like the pierogi before they like purchase it. And if you can't meet with somebody for like a week or two weeks, or even if it's a month, like let's say you're in school or something, let's say you have a job, you know, whatever you're if there's like an actual reason for it, but like sometimes, you know, it's cute, but you're not dating and you're just you're messaging, you're like you're it's a back and forth with text messaging, you know. And sometimes messaging is fun for sure, but it's also a way to like avoid reality because that's not that's not really real. You're meeting somebody actually has like a higher much higher stakes. Like it means they have to like count on having chemistry with somebody or like be open to the idea of like what happens if this like moves forward, but what happens if I'm rejected, you know what I mean? Like the idea of having to like be real and not this curated version of yourself, which you can be whenever you're just like texting somebody, and and it's like the same thing. It's like we talked about this a little bit before in the other emails, but it's like wanting to have that, like they they want the pen fen pal fantasy without any other accountability whatsoever. It's like anyone who's like also saying things like, I'm not like other guys, is always usually like exactly like the other guys. It's like a it's like a cursed phrase. Like the second that they say it, it's like you know something's gonna get fucked up. You know, mean in public, let your friends know where you are, catch the vibe, you know, like and and don't do the the don't be doing the emotional construction, like the building of the attachment emotionally to like the profile picture of somebody that you've never met before. You know, like we can do better than that. I know we can, you know. This last one says, This last one says, Dear Dino, I started listening after a friend sent me one of your episodes about leaving things that are done. Yeah, that was not too long ago. Now I'm writing because I feel like an idiot. I need someone to tell me that I'm not. Well, I'm here to tell you that you're not an idiot, okay? Knock that off. Here's what should be illegal though. Future faking. Uh-oh. This is like the this is like the opposite of the the the long test drive. It's the future faking. I don't know if that's exactly what's happening here, but let's see if that's let me see if I actually let me see if I'm actually right this time. Probably not, but let's see. I dated a guy for six months who talked about our future constantly. Trips that we'd take, apartments we would get, kids' names, meeting his family. He talked about it like it was already happening. And I fell for it because it made me feel safe, like it felt like a commitment to me.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Yeah, I feel that. That makes sense. But it was just words. He'd say things like when we move in together. And then he wouldn't even make it a plan for us to hang out on a Saturday night.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

And sorry, somebody's in the background. Gosh, everybody's like beep boop bopping in the background. That's okay. I'm at the studio, which is nice. There's actually people I thought I thought somebody called my name, but they didn't. Of course, me making about myself. He'd say things when we're moving in together, then he would make a plan for Saturday night. Then he would say, I can't wait to meet, I can't wait for you to meet my mom, and then we'd actually never schedule it. I ignored it because the words were so convincing. And then one day he ended it out of nowhere, said he wasn't ready. Yeah. Well, that seems to be a popular, that seems to be a popular phrase. I got, I felt like I got hit by a bus. How could someone talk about a future with you and then leave? It took me months to realize he wasn't describing our future. He was using future talk to keep me invested. Yeah. She said it was verbal foreplay. Yeah. I don't even know. That's that's that's a really good way to put it because that's kind of it's kind of what it is, right? It's like it could lean to something, but it doesn't have to. You know, like it might, it might not, and you never know. In this case, it sounds like it did never did. And now I don't trust anyone who talks about the future too soon. It makes me feel sad because I used to be a romantic, and now I just feel so suspicious all the time. So let's make that fucking illegal. All right. Well, listen, put them in jail, honestly, because I feel like that's emotional fraud, which would should come with a lifelong sentence. No, I don't know. I um, you know, I need I just think you know, plans are not commitment. Consistency, I think, is commitment. You know, I anyone who can say like we should go to Italy, that that means nothing. You say like we should go, we should go to Italy to uh plant. And then it can't show up on a Tuesday, then they can't make real plans, babe. Their actions don't match the fantasy, then like the future talk is like a full it's a strategy. And not even that maybe a conscious one, and maybe to some degree it is conscious, but like for sure it's like a full-on strategy. It's like the glue. You know, it's gonna keep you in place, it keeps you very hopeful, keeps you waiting. And then when and then when they leave, the you know, it's like you're not grieving the relationship, you're grieving like the imaginary life that they sold you. And I think that's like why it hurts so much because you don't lose six months, you know, because you had the experience, you were here, you were having a good time. Like you lose the fantasy and the dream, and like that verbal foreplayer of commitment is exactly exactly what's going on. It's it's you know, I I hate it, and but I respect your wording, and man, it makes me angry. No, but anyway, okay, before we close this session, illegal dating behavior, court is now closed. I I just want to acknowledge something because like dating today I feel like is pretty confusing. Cause every day the rules are changing a little bit. There's like con the technology that people have to catch up with, and it's also weird. Everyone that has been, you know, everyone's in therapy right now, so everyone there is always like trying to therapise others. They use like therapy speech. Cause like that's you know, I don't know. I everyone wants to be the arbiter of truth, and no one won, no one wants to be the bad guy. So instead of saying what they actually mean, people oftentimes they soften it, they disappear a little bit, like, or they hedge a little bit, or they like they commit a little bit, or like they breadcrumb you a little bit. They want to take things slow, they future talk. They like they keep you on like simmer while they try to figure their shit out. And and like the reason these things hurt so much is because it's not because they're annoying, it's because like the ambiguity of it all is so fucking exhausting. Oh my god. I'll tell you what. The amount of thought that goes into it, you can't like because you can survive the rejection and you can like survive a breakup because everybody's done it already to some degree. Like you can survive somebody saying, like, this is not this is not working for me and this isn't right for me. What hurts more is the that confusion part where you're like, I think this is this, but like perhaps it's not, and you're thinking to yourself, like, did I fucking misread it? Did they mean something else whenever they said that thing? Or like, so do I give it another chance or not? Like, am I being dramatic and overreacting? It's like the and the and the loop will fucking eat your brain alive. And I think you learn this because like I think sometimes some of us need to learn the hard way. And I'm like one of those people that you know have to learn the hard way that like clarity is actually kindness. And that feels like a theme for me today, too. Because not perfect communication all the time. It's not like like you know, being like, you know, emotionally intelligent and like flawless at your, you know, your delivery when it comes to you know how emotionally intelligent you are. It's just like basic honesty. You know, if you like someone, say it. If you don't want the relationship, say it. You want the relationship, say it and behave it. If you're not sure, like don't build a fantasy future to keep them around while you figure it out. That's not fair. It doesn't have to feel like that. That feels like psychological warfare. And it's I honestly, I think it sometimes it just requires a little bit of courage. And, you know, I'm not saying that I'm like flying in on my high horse, being like I've done everything perfectly. I've done that shit where you stay too long. You know, I I believe words over behavior sometimes. Like in my in my past, I've been I convinced myself that like that ambiguity that you live in, that mystery is like just it's cute. When in reality, there's like a it's it's really avoidance. And we all do it. Cause at the end of the day, attention feels good and being hopeful feels good, and the you know, the possibility of a future feels good. And then over time, I think you start to realize something like that, you know, when shit's good, you don't need someone to help you like decode it. It doesn't feel like a fucking strategy, you know what I mean? And you don't have to like text all your friends and be like, how do we what what what's the takeaway from all these screenshot text messages? Like anyway, but anyway, I'm not sure what next week's episode is gonna be about, but you can anticipate that I'm gonna post about it on the Instagram stories. That's where you can find the prompts for each week's episode in the Instagram story. So make sure that you follow at iHearYouBabe Pod. Listen, I hope you had a good time. I hope you had a good listen and excited to talk to you guys again next week. All right, babe. I hear you. Talk to you soon.