39. Bestie Breakups Hit Different Vol. 2

Hello and welcome back to I Hear You, Babe. This week we're talking about the friendship breakup — not the dramatic kind with a fight and a moment you can point to, but the slow kind. The one where you look up one day and realize the person you used to call about everything has become someone you see four times a year and call it fine.

Before the emails, Dino talks about Canyon Ranch (and how the other half lives), a feature in Athleisure Magazine, the SaltDrop rebrand that's coming, and a big idea he's been sitting on — the Babe Network. If you have a podcast idea you've been holding onto, this is your sign to send it in.

Then we get into the inbox. A group chat that fires twice a year and is held together entirely by heart emojis. A best friend who keeps referencing the earlier draft of you like she wants you to go back. A ghost — the slow-motion kind, and the guilt that has nowhere to go. A twenty-two year history that feels like a debt you don't know how to stop paying. A friendship that wasn't built for who you both became. The friend who needs more than you have. The one who peaked in 2017 and has been living off the Portugal story ever since. And a closer that will make you think about someone you haven't called in four months.

Send your stories to IHearYouBabePod@gmail.com. New episode every week.

I hear you. I got you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to I Hear You Babe. My name is Dino Malvone. I am your host. And we've got a really fun episode for you guys today. A bunch of emails that you guys sent into IHearYouBabepod at gmail.com. And a bunch of things we're going to chit chat about up front about what's going on here in New York City. By the way, in case you're new to the show, the way that it all works for us is that I typically on my on the Instagram page, I will post a prompt once a week. And then you guys send in your emails and I read them. And that's kind of how this works. Every once in a while, if I get a surplus of emails, I'll do a Patreon episode specifically for that. In fact, I need to get back to the Patreon because I, in fact, I have a bunch of emails that I've been wanting to read on there that I just haven't gotten a chance to do yet. So stay tuned. You can always come and follow us over there at Patreon, I hear you babe. Also, we've got a Substack. If you want to follow us over there, it's I Hear You Babe over there on Substack. And you can read all about what's going on with me. And you know, I talk about what's going on with Salt Drop, and I talk about, you know, my personal life and all the good stuff. It's like we're, you know, stuff that's like a little bit maybe too boring to read or talk about on the pod, on the potty. But anyway, so we are, first of all, say hi to Rocco and say hi to Vito. I started my morning up with them this morning. We took like a I took like a good five minutes with each of them on the couch. Do you know their home being completely useless without me? Uh and I already miss them. But today on the show, we're talking about friendships, girl. And the today, especially, we're talking about the ones that you've outgrown, but you can't really fully let go of yet. Do you know what I mean? It kind of like you know that it's time to like settle the score, it's time to be done or whatever, but then it's like you still aren't completely over it. And I mean, I have a lot of feelings about this one for sure, but but anyway, first I'm gonna tell you a little bit about this past week because it was a fucking vibe. I went over to went on over to uh the Canyon Ranch there in Lennox, Massachusetts, which is in the Berkshires or the Berkshires. Which is a girl?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Is it the Berkshires? That sounds weird. Berkshires.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Which is it, guys? Anyway, for the those of you who don't know, the Canyon Ranch is a wellness retreat or like wellness resort, I guess it would be. And it's like it's really special. It's like very genuinely quiet AF. Girl, there was nothing going on except for eating food, sleeping, and working out. I'm not even kidding. And also they had the God. So of course, we're in the middle of the woods in Massachusetts, like western Massachusetts. And I I went to the thing with Darius. And, you know, I'm I brought not like outfits, but like I was like, if I'm gonna go to dinner, I didn't even know what to expect before I got there because I'd never even honestly had never even heard of Canyon Ranch, aside from like the quick mention of it on like an episode of Sex in the City back in the day. But you know, it's not my my parents and I didn't we we weren't kit chit-chatting about Canyon Ranch, you know what I'm saying? Like my my dad was throwing pizzas and my you know what I mean, my mom was like making pastas, and so no, but but you know, and like I've stayed at nice places, like I'm from Pittsburgh, like I stayed at a Hampton Inn that had a pool and a hot tub, and I thought, like, girl, she has arrived. But Canyon Ranch, girl, it's a different category altogether. Like, I don't even know. Every meal was great. They have at this particular location, because there's one in uh I think there's one in Austin that's coming, but there's also one in somewhere in Nevada. No, Tucson, Tucson, it's in Arizona, but I I had two restaurants, one was like the fancier one, and honestly, you can order as much food as you want, which already is so nice, but there the very healthy options and everything was like easily gluten-free. Like I could I had lots and lots and lots of options. They also had a little Italian place, rustic Italian. I can't remember what the name of it was. They both had names, but anyway, you can go to either one of these places, and there's always like, you know, you could walk up in the morning and pick the fruit out that you want in your smoothie. It's very quiet. It's very, very quiet, which is like also really nice coming from the city where it's like it's never, there's never a dull moment here. There's never not a siren of some sort, whether it be, well, I don't know, whatever vehicle creates a siren. Like a it's always a whoop who somewhere. But anyway, so it felt really nice because A, as you can imagine, it's a it's a wellness retreat. So it was mostly women and some men that were accompanying those women, but very few and far between. In fact, I didn't even see a guy that was like there for the retreat until like maybe the like last couple days, last day or so. And oh god, it's so funny. But Darius and I we Darius was like the only black man there for like two days. Anyway, it was so lovely though, and everybody was incredibly kind. Like the, you know, it felt like every moment was like considered, you know, and and and I'm the person who's always doing like 17 things at once, and I got there and I just like stopped. Like Darius and I like just stopped. I one time I one night I slept for a good 12 hours. You know, good good food, like you sleep like an actual human being. You know, and like you're not on your phone all day, because honestly, the the the reception out there was like pretty low. And I think like my nervous system went into shock, you know, with the novelty of it all. Just like a piece of fruit, some tea, like nothing really to do. It was so great. And then we got home and they sent us an email, which was like a just a beautiful, thoughtful little no to say. Like I they even said like the fitness manager who does the fitness stuff there was saying that she we had inspired her. And they couldn't wait to have us back. And I'm so like I'm still sitting here reading, going like, oh, oh. Like now, this is how the other half lived because I I've never gotten a thank you no email from a hotel, you know. It's usually just a receipt, girl. But anyway, so oh how the wealthy live. I'm getting there, girl. We're not wealthy yet, but we're getting there. And but like those four days in the Berkshires, I got like to cosplay wealthy a little bit, and I got to like try that outfit on, and it was everything, girl. What can I get some more of that? I don't think that anybody has any what what what you know the thing about being wealthy is I think sometimes it makes people crazy, right? But I think if you grow up in a pizza shop like playing Pac-Man, like I did, and like you know, forcing the delivery guys to like take you on a delivery to drop off pizza, like pizza was my life. You know, I don't, I don't, I, I, I I think genuinely, if you've never like lived that way, it's it's pretty nice. It's pretty nice. And also, it's been a while since I had a moment to take a real rest. Like, not a vacation where you're like kind of running around a little bit too. This is like is this was legit just like us sitting around. I think one day it was like a bunch of 48 hours episodes, and then you know, I slept for 12 hours. One day all I did was honestly just go back and forth and eat different things. They even had a little pizza bar at the rustic Italian place, and I obviously I'm gluten-free because of my like Hashimoto's. Doesn't that sound chic? Someone said I have Hashimoto, you're like, oh, cool. But I can't fuck with gluten. But I did. They had the like a thin crust pizza. I was all up on that shit. Today I am recording the podcast in the actual studio room where I teach fitness, and it's got this window in the back. I'm gonna take a picture of it. Maybe I'll post it on the Instagram, but it's these buildings are from like the 1800s, so they're old. In fact, the building that I'm in right now has the original shutters from like 1840 that are still on the building. There's only a handful of buildings with those on them left. But also, what's weird about this little nook in the back of the building is like it's not the typical back of a building where you're just met with another building, it's like a courtyard back there. And there's like some strange like other building that's like kind of in the courtyard too. It's so weird. But it would make more sense if I posted a photo. But what is interesting is in a little corner where like that random building meets and my building meets, there are like the pigeons hang out. It's just very New York. It's very New York. Um, if I had my cats here in the studio, they would love this window. You know what I mean? Like, there's just always a bird out there. And I'll bet you any money, if you look out this window now and you looked out this window like 150 years ago, 200 years ago, it looked almost the same. Only difference I bet is that there's like equipment back there for like the heating and the air conditioning and stuff. Wow, fascinating story, Dino. Also, like coming up soon, I did an interview with Athleaves Your Magazine. I'm still like pinching myself because I I I'll link it when it's live. I think it should be either today or tomorrow. But you know, there's something like pretty surreal about being asked to talk about something you've been like quietly building for a bunch of years and like realizing people outside your immediate circle or like your immediate world are paying attention. And that felt really good. I did like a little something with them last year, and then they reached out this year, and we did like a I think it's like more like a feature this time for salt drop. So I'll keep you guys posted on that too. And good segue, because speaking of salt drop, we're doing, and then I'm gonna get into these emails, Kirk, but like I, you know, we're doing like this little rebrand thing, right? And we're in the middle of like working together with a little group, and we're putting together a better and easier way to like talk about salt drop, teach people how to communicate about why they love it so much and really tap into like the music and the movement component of it. Just make it a little bit more accessible and understandable so that we can build, you know, you want your people out there to be able to talk about who you are, be able to convince other people to come. So, anyway, we're finally figuring out the language, six years in, and you know, the team, the vision to explain what salt trap actually is to someone who's never been in the room. Because right now, if you ask me to say, you know, beat-driven group fitness, and people like nod politely a little bit, and I can feel them going, like, but like, what does that even fucking mean, bro? And you know, what it means is if you've been there, you would know. But the world needs to know, and it's coming. And I and I feel like I can't wait to show you, but I I'm also excited to figure out the way to do that as well. Like, I'm curious about it. Oh, and one last thing before the emails, and it's like a big one, but you know, listen, we're not there yet. But also, how cute would it be to start thinking about it? But I've been sitting on this idea and the Canyon Ranch trying to like trip it into like crystallizing it for me a little. But when you actually stop and get quiet, the ideas like get loud. That's why I have my best thoughts when I'm in the shower because like there's no distractions or whatever. But anyway, I've been thinking about the show and this community because there's a couple hundred of us that listen to this episode every week or whatever, and and and what we've been building together is kind of cute, you know. And I keep coming back to the same idea. Like, wait, what if there was like more shows? But like different people, different voices, like you know, same vibe, like same, a little bit warm, a little bit chaotic, always cute, you know, like someone who loves to overshare like I do, but at least I'm calling this in my head, this idea that I have in my head, like the babe network. Like, what if it's a little network of podcasts? Anyway, so here's what I want to note from you is if you have a podcast idea, something that you've been like sitting on, or a concept you keep coming back to, or whatever, I want you to send me an email and like tell me what you'd make if someone handed you a microphone and said, let's just fucking go. Because I'm listening and I and I might have something to say back, you know. So I hear you, babe pod at gmail.com. Send me the idea. Let's see, let's see what's possible. I don't know. Everything starts from somewhere, right? So, all right, let's get into these emails. The the prompt this week was tell me about a friendship that you've outgrown but can't fully let go of. And I'm gonna figure out a better way to get these prompts like up onto the Instagram. Because I be a lot of people I'm getting a lot of emails from people saying they they don't see the prompts. And I'm gonna, you know, something about the algorithm doesn't love the boringness of the prompt. So it's I I get less story views whenever I put that up, but I will I'll figure out a best the best way to do that moving forward. So stay tuned. But sorry, I had to have a sip of my electrolyte. This flavor is kiwi strawberry. I prefer the electrolyte zero, I prefer the blue one, but this one is pretty good. Kiwi strawberry, I'm not sure I've had this one before. Wow. Okay. So before we get into these emails, I we have so much language for whenever people are dating or together and then they break up. You know, there's like a whole therapy exercise routine, you know, there's a whole girl, a breakup playlist, you know, like uh rituals and routines, like literally all of it. But when you break up with a friend, you know, or like you outgrow a friend, or like things happen, like there nobody gives you, there's no like ceremony for that exactly. There's just like a quiet and slow, you know, you realize like shit feels different. It's like it doesn't how do you say like that used to hold you, it doesn't quite hold you the same way anymore. And but then you keep showing up a little bit afterwards because like you know, history has this tendency of like be everybody romanticized like what it used to be, what it used to be. And then the present tense is like feels a little bit more hollow, you know? Like a little bit l like less exciting. So anyway, like you know, I have had instances without getting too without getting too uh specific, because God knows if I do that, then I then everyone thinks I'm a jerk. But no, I definitely had had I've I've had friends, let's say, for example, I've had one particular instance where I was launching my new business at Salt Drop, and I had a friend who was very vocal about the fact that at the time she thought I was making some financial decisions that were not in line with the longevity of this business. Like I like I was spending, you know, in a way that was not sustainable. And, you know, the conversation was happening in front of other people. And I was like, I kindly just said, let's make this, let's take this one offline a little bit. And then another time, so it came up a second time, and I said, you know, really, I think this is like maybe not the exact right place to hash out exact details of stuff, but like more than happy to bring this offline. And then a third time when I said something like, you know, if I'm being honest, I pay you more than I pay anybody else. So if I'm spending frivolously on any one thing, you know, there we there may be other things that we take a look at too. And that ended with like uh this feels gross and uh whatever, whatever. And but that was a sign, and that was a particular instance that took place over some time where it, you know, that there was already an inclination that the friendship had changed, and I was holding on to, you know, whenever you are friends with somebody for a long time, you'll hold on to it because you feel like you owe that person because of the amount of time, as if like the amount of years you've been together is a barometer for how good the friendship is, and it's not. So anyway, I have, you know, because at the end of the day, you know, I the girl, okay, wait, I'm just gonna, whatever. The the the idea was like, I have, oh god, this was this was this was the argument. And I'm not saying the their name, so it's all good, but the argument was, well, listen, I have started not more than just one business. I've started like three or four businesses, and my quick comeback was which have all failed. So what do you think I need to be taking your advice for? Girl, it was hilarious. Anyway, let me get into these emails before I get myself in trouble anymore. Whatever. Who cares? The next you know, the first one says the the group chat that never dies. It says, hi Dino, hi Rocco, hi Vito, and hi to the spirit of dude always. Uh uh, my dude. Okay, I'm gonna keep this relatively short because honestly, the whole situation is embarrassing, and I think you'll understand immediately. Uh I have a group chat. It's called something I will not repeat here because it made sense when we were 24 and makes absolutely no sense now. Oh, now I don't want to know. There are seven of us in it. We went to college together. We used to be inseparable in the way that people are inseparable. Love that. When they live 40 feet apart and have no real responsibilities, and the primary activity is eating cereal at midnight and having opinions about each other's situationships. Sounds like college. That was 15 years ago. And that we still have the group chat. It fires off maybe twice a year. Someone's getting married or someone's having a baby, someone posts a throwback photo, and we all react with heart emojis and we say what we need to get and we say we need to get together soon, and then we don't. I'm a couple of these chats too. One there's a couple. Well, one I got on my birthday chat from my college friends, well, my first boyfriend, Dan, and then my college friends Dara and Adalia. And it's crazy because like after college, Dan took over that friend group, and then I I went on to I went I moved to Boston and then I moved to New York or whatever, but like, and they're still like besties. So I feel nice that they include me in the group chat, even if it only fires off to me like once or twice a year. But anyway, it says every single time I see the notification, I feel this complicated thing I can only describe as warm grief. Like I love these people genuinely, but I don't actually know them anymore. Oh, totally. I know who they are, I know the version of them that existed in a dining hall at 2 a.m. But I don't know if that's sad or just true. It's probably both. But I've been doing salt trap online for six months. The Thursday class is my thing. Oh, thank you so much. The yeah, I feel like that's the that's the bitters. You're just highlighting a bittersweet thing. It's a you know, in the romanticiz romanticiz. When you romanticize romanticization. When you romanticize, I'm not exactly sure that I was even that might have been me creating a new world. It's bittersweetened sometimes, you know? And the Thursday class is your thing, and I love that you have a thing. But warm grief, I think that that's like the right exact way to explain the texture of this feeling. Like it's like a little bit of loss with romanticizing. And I'm I'm kind of jealous that I didn't think of this phrase for us. Warm grief feels it's not sad. It's not, you know, mad or it doesn't sound like it's bitter, but it's like a there's like a soft ache for something that at one time was really real, but like is not as real anymore in the same way. Warm grief. That's a good one. And you know, and the group chat, who among us does not have this group chat, you know, the one that fires off like once or twice a year. It's like a heart emoji, or you like you like someone's posts, or like we need to get together soon. But everybody, you know, it only happens when serendipity is at play. But I don't know. Here's what I guess what I would say was that those people were part of a real time, like a real part of the story. Like uh they they have a chapter in your book, you know, but the chapter ended. And, you know, love doesn't really go anywhere, it just doesn't have anywhere to live except for the group chat now. But and um, you know, and they maybe the relationship is as deep as just a heart emoji. And I mean, I still think that's like something, you know what I mean? It's like you hold you hold something in that that's a part of the history that nobody else will ever have. So anyway, thanks for sending that email. Next one says she loved the earlier draft of me. Okay. Dino, hi. I found you through I fear you, babe. Love to hear that. That's the true crime podcast, by the by, that I do. It's very different energy, same parasocial attachment. Uh it's like I have a best friend, or I had a best friend. Okay, wait, no, sorry. I thought I was making that about me, Eek. It says, I have a best friend, or I had a best friend, or she's still my best friend, but the friendship has become something I don't fully recognize. Okay. These are these are these are toughies. We met at 22. We were both broke, lost, and working jobs that we hated. She knew everything about me. There was the messy version, the version that was kind of a disaster. And then things changed because I got therapy, I got a better job, I moved, I changed in ways that I'm proud of. And she didn't. Or she changed in different directions. And now when she when we talk, she referenced who as oh my god. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

She I mean, I take a sip of my water because I can't read anymore. Electrolyte. I called it water.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

That's good stuff though. Okay. And then she didn't, or she changed in different directions. And now when we talk, she references who I used to be in a way that feels like she wants me to go back there. She'll say things like, You used to be so much more spontaneous, or you've gotten so serious. And what I hear underneath it is, I liked you better when you were less yourself. Yeah. I don't know how to hold someone who loved the earlier draft of you without letting go of the person you've actually become. This is a I feel like everybody can relate to this in some way. We still have lunch sometimes, but I walk away feeling like I visited a place I where I used to live. It's like familiar and a little foreign at the same time. And I don't have a resolution, but I just needed to get this on paper somewhere. Though, you know, that part about well, like I like you better whenever you were less yourself, because I I think you sit with that one for a second because you know it really does rob you of your ability to evolve just like they are, you know, and I think it's one of those like quietly devastating things that like friendships can do. And it and it, I don't think that the person who's saying it is coming from a bad place. I think it's like they're expressing a loss and like grieving the version of you that needed her. You know what I mean? Like, shouldn't have language for that feeling, so it comes out sideways. Like, or like you used to be more spontaneous thing, is like I I really miss when I knew how to be your person, and we could do things together, you know. But like you're also allowed to change, and so are they, and you know, being getting older and and and and evolving is not a betrayal of any of the people who loved you in your past versions either, you know? Really, honestly, okay, not me being queer as fuck, but it's like an invitation to get to know this version, and uh some people are gonna take it and some people won't. And I mean, I think that's up to her, not up to you. And also, yeah, I fear you, babe, and I hear you, babe. You know, very well-rounded person, it sounds like I respect the range. I really I really do. Okay, this next one says I ghosted her and I never told anyone. Dear Dino, I don't think I've ever admitted this to anyone out loud. So here we go. Okay, we love this. It sounds like a journey. Let's go. Let's go. Wait, speaking of journey, do you guys remember? Do you remember playing Oregon Trail? You probably don't. And if you do remember, it's you're probably born in the 80s, like I was. And if and and if you're thinking to yourself, oh, there's the version on like Nintendo 69 or whatever it is, that's not it. This was on a PC computer. It was like the dots. I ended a friendship by just stopping. No conversation, no explanation. I just stopped answering the text. I let the responses get slower and slower until they stopped. And she eventually stopped reaching out. That's frustrating to be on the other end of that, by the way. But anyway, that says the truth, and I haven't said this before, is that she needed more than I could give. And instead of saying that, I just disappeared. But because everything wait, because saying it felt too hard and disappearing felt easier in the moment, uh, even though I knew it wasn't an easy, it wasn't easier for her. Can I read that sentence again? Because I'm okay. Because saying it felt too hard and disappearing felt easier in the moment, even though I knew it wasn't easier for her. Okay, that felt better. This was four years ago. I think about her probably twice a week. Not with longing exactly, but with guilt. This and this unresolved tenderness that has nowhere to go. I don't want to be your friend again. That chapter closed for real reasons, but I never gave her the dignity of knowing why. I literally just vanished, like a like a slow motion magic trick where the person disappears so gradually. And that by the time you're gone or they're gone, you've almost convinced yourself it happened on its own. I used to take your bar three classes. Hi, back in the day, buffet. And I remember you saying, once the hardest thing to do is the honest thing because the honest thing costs you something, and the dishonest thing costs you the other person instead. I have thought about that a lot. And you were in the middle of a plank hold. I'm not gonna reach out. I've made peace with that, but I wanted to say it out loud on this podcast. Please tell Rocco and Vito, they seem like they have their own, they have their lives more together than I do. Oh, it's funny because you know, it's funny that you remember something that I said in a plank hold like a bunch of years ago. But no, you're right about that. Um Rocco and Vito have their own lives that have like they're and they're way more together than the two of us for sure. They're probably asleep right now. They've got no outstanding emotional debts. I know that's for sure. And for that, I'm honestly fucking jealous. But let's see, this this email, this like slow, it feels like a slow motion magic trick. Like it's like the person disappearing so slowly that you almost like convince yourself that like it happened by itself, like it's a it had nothing to do with me. I think that's a pretty good description of a friendship ghost, if I've ever heard one. And for and I will definitely give you disappearing so gradually, it's like a the friendship ghost. I'm gonna give you credit for that, but I'm stealing it. Friendship ghost. You're not a monster, by the way. It's like once you hit your limit with somebody and reduce your own cost at her expense. Like that's what I think that's like what humans do when they're frightened. You know, I don't think you're uniquely bad. I think you're just a human being. And you know, when guilt has nowhere to go, I feel like that's actually the sign that you have a conscience, which is great, which is great. Because these days, I feel like people who ghost and feel nothing are whack-a-doodles, like cuckoo crazy banana pants. How can you do that? I don't understand it. But I don't you don't have to reach out, yeah. But maybe you do you give yourself the thing you never gave her, which is like maybe an honest accounting of what went on. Maybe not not to send it, but just to write it. Totally just for you, like write out why it ended, like what you couldn't hold. So you have a way that you can kind of close it out properly in your own mind, even if you don't like close it off with her. It's like just an exercise, not in futility, but in an attempt to try to feel some sort of closure. You know, the honest thing does cost you something, but but but in the end, it costs you less than the dishonest thing. And and you know that now, and knowing that I guess is like how you do better the next time. So, you know. All right, the next one says 22 years feels like a debt I can't stop paying. Okay, she says, hi, Dino, long time listener, first time emailer, extremely nervous. Uh don't be nervous. I'm everything's always so you guys, I never use names. So it's totally anonymous. It says, mine is simple. I have a friend I've had since middle school, 22 years. She was at every important moment of my life. She's the person my family asks about by name at Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

I have a several of these too. So I think we if you if you have like any like you know, friends from that era that you've maintained friendships with, they they have a special something, you know. But it says, and I don't actually like who she is anymore. Uh not in a dramatic way. She doesn't, she hasn't done anything wrong or anything terrible. She's just become someone whose values and mind have moved in genuinely opposite directions. Uh-oh. Not not MAGA. The things she thinks are funny, I find unkind. Well, it's giving MAGA. No, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not gonna put that on there. But the way she talks about people makes me tired. We don't have much to talk about that isn't in the past. Sometimes that happens, you know, when the only thing you have in common with somebody is like what went anyway, but 22 years. But my family knows her name, but she was there for all these things. And I kept saying, because the history feels like a debt, I don't know how to stop paying. Even when I'm not sure the friendship I'm paying for still even exists. Well, you know, like okay, you say like the the the I like revisiting the lines because then it gives me an opportunity to dig into what I'm feeling whenever I I read the sentence. And you said like the history feels like a debt. I don't know how to stop paying. It's like, okay, you drop that at the end like it was like some little thing. I think that's like the biggest part of the email to me, because it feels like that's the trap, you know. It's like the I think that's the thing that keeps that sentence is like the reason or the feeling that people keeps people in friendships that ran out of shit to talk about a long time ago. You know, there there tends to be loyalty to history, which is not the same as loyalty to the person, by the way. Because you can honor what somebody was to you a while back without having to continue to invest useless time into what they've become. You know, those are two different things. You're allowed to know the difference between like who they were and who they are now, and that history doesn't disappear, right? You have those memories, the friendship like changed, but like that doesn't change what happened back in the day. So 22 years stays 22 years, like, but then you just stop adding on to it. Like if adding on to those years costs you something in return, you you don't have to give anymore. You know what I mean? And your family knowing her name at Thanksgiving, that's cute. Totally sweet. It's like bee-we, be we sweet. But also, like, it's not really relevant. You know, it's irrelevant to whether this friendship is serving you or not. And the familiarity with their name is not like a contract that means you guys have to be friends for the rest of your life. Anyway, first time emailer showing up with the most honest sentence in the entire inbox today. So I'm like very excited that you did that, even though you were extremely nervous and you don't have to be. But you did a great job. You really did. You did a great, great job. The next one says, We grew up alongside each other and apart from each other at the same time. Hi, Dino, and hi furry babies. Well, hello from all of us. I want to tell you about the friend I built a whole life phase alongside and then watched slowly become a stranger without either of us doing anything wrong. Well, that's usually how it works, baby. We met at 26, both new to New York, both broke and terrified and performing confidence. We didn't really feel girl, fake it till you make it. We were each other's person for six years. The call at midnight person, the show up when it's a bad when it's bad person, the one who knew the real story behind every every version of the events I told everyone else person. And that's your girl. That's your person. And then we both got more of what we wanted. She got the relationship, the apartment, the life that made sense. I got the career shift and the clarity and the version of myself I've been working toward. And somewhere in all that getting, we stopped needing each other in the specific way that we had. Yeah. God, friendships are so fucking complicated. Like it's crazy. It's crazy. And neither of us knew what to do with a friendship that wasn't built on mutual survival anymore. We still see each other maybe four times a year. It's warm and it's kind. It's like it's a little like visiting a museum of something that used to be alive. Sorry, of hiccups. I found your podcast right around when I started Salt Drop, and I think both things happened at the same time because I was finally ready to ask bigger questions about my life, and apparently I needed to sweat and cry simultaneously to do it. Well, I know that's right. I don't know about to do about the friendship. I think maybe you just let it be what it is and stop mourning what it was, but I'm still working on the letting go part. Well, sweating and crying at the same time to ask bigger questions about your life. Girl, welcome to Salt Drop. That's literally important, the entire point of what the fuck we're doing. Honestly, I think like that's like our mission statement. We're gonna do it's like I'm gonna put that shit on the wall. Like I want you to cry out of joy while sweating and maybe asking yourself bigger questions. All that. But a museum of something that used to be alive. I think I'm gonna think about that sentence for a little bit because it's not dead. You said yourself, it's warm and it's kind, but it is like somehow preserved on the wall. It's like not it's not going anywhere, it's not getting any bigger or smaller, it's just existing in the in the form it last had when it was like actually alive. And you know, here's a little piece of like gentle pushback, I think, a little bit. It doesn't have to be a problem to solve. You know, because I think some friendships are just for a rhyme and a reason. They're for a chapter, some are for a lifetime. You know, the ones that were for a chapter, then they don't mean any less. They were exactly what they were and what they needed to be, the time that they were needed to be, whatever they needed to be. You know, and the four times a year warmth is also the friendship now, which is fine. You have to let yourself have it without mourning what it isn't anymore, you know. The the letting go part takes as long as it takes. And who cares? You're not working under anybody's, you know, time pressure. You'll get there eventually. And I think that's what's most important, right? Okay. Let's see. The next one says she needs more than I have right now, and I feel terrible. All right. So it says, Dina, okay, I need you to hear me on this because I feel like a really bad person there, and I need someone to tell me that I'm not. Oh, I'd be honored. I have a friend who is going through an incredibly hard time, like really hard, and I love her, I really do, but she needs more than I have right now. Okay. Every conversation about is about her crisis, which is valid, it is a crisis, but I have my own things going on. They're like a little bit quieter, a little less traumatic, but still real. And I don't have the bandwidth to show up in the way that she needs and take care of myself. Well, I think that's honest. That's real. I feel so guilty because she needs me and I'm rationing myself. The version of the friendship being asked for right now is one where I give and she receives. I don't know where when it turns around, and I am actually running on low. Well, wait a minute. This is a very, very honest approach to this, and I totally get it. I get it. I don't want to lose this friendship, but but when it feels one-sided like that, I get, I get why it feels a little bit exhausting. And I know, and I know people like this too. And I think sometimes it's there's there's a there can be an element of narcissism that's involved in that. Typically, this person for me is like if I've ever been friends with a gay guy, which I have a difficult time with, I can think of one in particular right now that's just always so dramatic, so you know, always in crisis. Like it'd be like, oh, I just had this most amazing, you know, free trip to go and like record a new commercial for X, Y, and Z. But I got home just in time to catch the flu. You know, it's like, oh god. I don't want to lose this friendship, and I also don't know how to stay in it without losing myself. Is there a version where both are possible? Okay, I've been listening since episode three. You feel like a genuinely safe person to ask this. Aww. Listen, I'm gonna try to tell you, I don't know, I'm not capable capable of solving anybody else's problems, but that's a podcast, right? We're just a different perspective, just a different, maybe what do you call that? Like a neutral third party. But I don't think you're a bad person. I might be like the first thing that I want to say after that email because uh I think when you recognize that you're running low, you it's not like you're abandoning anybody. It's like a bit of self awareness. There's this thing about whenever people are talking about I have an autoimmune disease called Hashimoto. And but there's a whole line of discussion around what it's like to feel so exhausted that you you can't even explain how tired you are. And it's I don't remember the exact history behind it, but it's like one of the phrases was like, I'm I'm out of spoons. Like I I have no left to spoon into like my cup. Like I'm I'm out of spoons. And you know, recognize that you're running low. I think that's great. And the people who give until they're empty and then resent who they gave it to, that doesn't serve anybody. Like not you or her, or you know, so you can love somebody and not be the right person to hold them through this specific thing. Those are not like a contradiction, like they can both be true at the same time. And what you might be able to do, and only you know if like this is the right thing to do or whatever, but I I say is say something honest, like I I can't do this, or like, but something closer to like I love you and I'm here and I want to be, you know, honest about like my my bandwidth and my capacity, so I can show up in a way that makes you feel good, but also makes me feel good. That's not not a retreat, that's like a real conversation that you should have with your friends, I think. Like, and it's harder than disappearing at first, but I feel like it's more loving, you know, and and and and rationing yourself is not selfish. It's like I think it's like simple math. Like you cannot pour from empty. You know, it's not sure what they say on the plans like put your mask on first. But anyway, whoa, since episode three, this is episode 30. I think this is episode 39. So thank you. I'm so embarrassed by those earlier episodes. Jesus Christ. The sound was so terrible. The next one says she peaked at 27 and has been coasting on the Portugal story ever since. No idea what this means, but I'm excited to get into it. Dino, okay, this one's not deep. I just need to say it. I have a friend who genuinely peaked at 27. Incredible year for her. Best job, best relationship. She bought a platform bed. She had a signature scent. Like she was thriving. Oh, okay, diva. We were all thriving adjacent just from being near her. It is now eight years later, and she has not updated the story she tells about herself. Okay. So every time we get together, she tells the same three stories from that year: the trip to Portugal, the time she met the guy at the thing, and the job that sounded really impressive. And I love her genuinely. I have heard the Portugal story about 47 times. I know every beat, every callback, every detail, and I do not know a single thing about who she is in the present tense. I don't want to break up with her, I but I do want to shake her a little bit and say, bestie, what is actually fucking happening today? Is this a friendship problem or a her problem? Or is it a me problem? Asking for me. I'm me in this scenario. I love that she had a signature sent and a platform bed, and you were, what did you call it, thriving adjacent? Obsessed with this year, and I wasn't even there for it. Like, not thriving adjacent. But okay, the Portugal story 47 times. I mean, I believe every single number in this email. So I feel like if it happened. But my here's my read. She's not annoying you. I think she's like probably scared. It's like the that signature sent year was the last time that she had a full picture of like what was fucking going on, certain about what was happening. You know that feel-good moment we're just like, I am fucking nailing it. And when people get scared about like the present, they I feel like they retreat to a time whenever they feel good. Like all of a sudden their outfits start to, you know, it's all you've got that like denim jacket on from like from 2001 again, because it reminded you of that time where you were like walking with your chin up. I mean, which doesn't mean you have to sit through the story for the 48th time, but it might actually change how you hear it a little bit. I don't know. Like maybe you ask her questions by and then something I learned whenever I was doing negotiation work was that sometimes you can pull people onto your playing field as opposed to playing on theirs. And you know, you so you like you pull her into the present by asking her something so specific that like the story about Portugal can't fit the space, you know? Like what's the current, what's something that you're fucking working on right now that's like exciting, or I don't know, like, you know, what's something you're looking forward to in the next couple months that you're up to? Like uh, you know, give her a door into what she's doing now. And maybe she'll surprise you, or even like maybe like she'll surprise herself too, you know. Or or the alternative is that you'll figure out that she can't access like the present version of herself at all. And I guess that's info too. Either way, I think as long as you're asking, you're doing it right. Because, you know, just asking questions, like seek to understand, I think is the best. The next no, this is the last one. Okay, this one says there's no subject line. Okay, it says a hi Dino. I have been listening since the very first episode, and I've never written in this prompt, it's the one that finally made me do it. You guys, if you go back and you listen to the very first episode, it sounds like I was like recording it through a tin can, like on the on a um string, and there was another tin can on the other end. It that that was the that was the vibe sound wise. It's gotten it's gotten better. So embarrassed about some of those earlier episodes, but what are you gonna do? They're they're there. This says, I want to tell you about my best friend from college. We were inseparable for four years, the kind of close where you don't knock, where you know each other's coffee orders, and you can sit in silence and it's comfortable and full at the same time. She was in my wedding and I was in hers, and our kids have actually met. Three years ago, something shifted. I couldn't name it for a long time. It wasn't a fighter anything like betrayal. It was more like we were reading from two different versions of the same book and didn't realize it until we were too far in to pretend the pages matched. All right. She got very into a set of beliefs that I don't share. Well, this shit can happen, right? And I'm not going to get specific because that's not the point. The point is that conversations that used to feel easy started to feel careful. And careful conversations are really exhausting to me. Like, and exhausting conversations can make you call somebody less. And calling less makes the distance grow bigger. And the distance grows until one day you realize you haven't talked in four months, and neither one of you called. I think about her constantly. I think about who she was at 20. I think about the way she used to laugh at things that weren't even that funny, just because she wanted you to feel like you'd said something worth laughing at. I thought about the girl who drove four hours to be with me after my dad's diagnosis without me even asking. I miss her. I miss the her that existed before whatever happened, happened. I'm a salt drop member. I do the Saturday morning classes when I can. And sometimes when I'm moving, I think about her because she would have loved it. The music, she'd have lost her mind about the music. I don't know if I'm supposed to reach out. I don't know if some things just end without resolution. And if you have to learn to carry the missing without a place to put it down. I just know that she was one of the best people I ever got to be close to. And I wanted to say that out loud somewhere, even if it was just ones. Please say hello to Rocco and Vito. I hope you are warm and fed and fully unaware of anything difficult. That's the dream, really. Well, look, the I hope you're warm and fed and fully unaware of anything difficult. That's the dream, really. I feel like I I need that moment. And also, she would have loved the music. I love that she would have lost her mind because of the music. It's like a small detail, but it's like very specific and tender. You know, I feel like this email landed exactly where it was supposed to. Like the the careful conversations that make you call less. And then like you start to call less because it's annoying or it feels like work. And then the distance grows, and then and then all of a sudden four months have gone by and nobody's called. And that's like, you know, it's one of the harder losses because there's no there's no moment to point to exactly. Like there wasn't a disagreement or a fight. It was like sorry, that water went down in the wrong pipe. Water, my electrolyte. It's you know, there's it's a slow accumulation of distance. And then all of a sudden it's like it's you know, there's so much distance between, like, it's so wide to cross without like planning a full-on expedition and like an apology tour, and like it all feels like too much in your steering, you're you know, and you're still carrying her after all of it, like you know, you're in the Saturday morning class thinking about how much she would have loved the music. So obviously like the love doesn't go anywhere, it just like doesn't have like a place to live right now, you know. But I don't know, I I I don't know if you should reach out. Only I think you can figure that out. But I will say that I think the fact that you want to say it out loud that she was one of the most like bestest people that ever you ever got to be close to, then I think that that's important. I think that's important in a way that makes it feel like that's the whole point. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for someone we've lost connection with is just to like hold them in your thoughts, honor who they were, and you know, miss them honestly, and leave the door unlocked, even if you don't open it.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 55:45

But you've been here since episode one. Thank you for finally writing in. Geez, Louise, and I'm glad this was the email that you decided to write in. I I truly, really appreciate the fact that you guys take time to write this stuff. Anyway, so that is our show for today. That was the last email. I hear every single one of you, I'm really grateful that you trust me with your emails and the topics, because I know it isn't easy to say it out loud when like the love that you have for somebody has changed and they're like the person that you like love the most. And anyway, if there's like if there's a friendship you've been thinking about while listening, or you know, if you need to let it go or you know, hold on to it in a different way. Or I don't know, maybe just finally tell somebody that it mattered, you know. Like I hope that the emails today helped in some way. Even just like a little bit. I feel like just sharing our own little, our little stories. We think they're little, but I think sometimes we forget how many of us are sharing the same experiences. Anyway, stay tuned for next week's topic. I'm gonna post about it on the Instagram. You follow us at I HearYuBabe Pod. And you can send your stories to IHearYouBabe Pod at gmail.com. We've got new episodes every week. One last thing if you've got a podcast idea that you're sitting on, I want to know about it. So send me that email. I want to see what's possible. Anyway, this is I Hear You Babe. I'm Dino. I got you, and can't wait to talk to you guys next week. Bye.