Hope Comes to Visit

From Rock Bottom to Renewal: Jamie Felton on Sobriety, Loss, and Hope for Families

• Danielle Elliott Smith • Season 1 • Episode 22

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The road through addiction and recovery is rarely straight — and for Jamie Felton, it’s been marked by both unimaginable loss and profound resilience.

By age 24, Jamie had accumulated three DUIs and found herself walking home from a blackout at 3:30 AM. That was the breaking point that led her to seek help — and on November 7, 2006, she began a journey that has kept her sober for nearly 19 years.

But sobriety didn’t shield her from heartbreak. Jamie’s sons, Jack and Sam, both struggled with substance use. She poured everything she had into helping Jack — financially, emotionally, spiritually — but in May 2019, at just 20 years old, he died of a heroin overdose. Today, her younger son Sam is in recovery, a gift she holds close.

Out of her own lived experience, Jamie has dedicated her life to guiding others. Through Fresh Start Recovery Consultants, she provides the kind of support and professional navigation she once desperately needed — helping families find hope in the chaos of addiction.

In this episode of Hope Comes to Visit, Jamie shares her story with honesty and courage: the dark valleys of addiction, the grief of losing a child, and the determination to transform her pain into purpose. Her story is a reminder that even in the hardest places, hope can still take root.

Learn more about Jamie's work and how she helps people find hope and recovery here - Fresh Start Addiction and Recovery Consultants.

You can also connect with her on Social:

Instagram - @fsaddictionandrecovery

Facebook - Fresh start Addiction and Recovery Consultants

LinkedIn  - Jamie Felton

X - @recovery_fs


Thank you for listening to Hope Comes to Visit. If this conversation helps, follow the show, share it with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review - it helps others find their way to these conversations.

New episodes drop every Monday, so you can begin your week with a little light and a lot of hope.

For more stories, reflections, and ways to connect, visit www.DanielleElliottSmith.com or follow along on Instagram @daniellesmithtv and @HopeComestoVisit



Speaker 1:

It was probably 3.30 in the morning and I was walking home by myself and I came out of a blackout and I prayed and I said, god, I need your help, please. I'm going to lose my kids. And they were four and a half and eight and that was it. I mean, I knew that at some point I would lose them.

Speaker 2:

There are moments in life when everything falls apart and somehow something sacred begins On. Hope Comes to Visit. We share those stories. We're really excited you're here with us today. I am very excited to share with you a friend of mine. This is Jamie Felton.

Speaker 2:

Jamie, thank you so much for being here with us today. I am excited to have you here because you and I have a relationship that goes beyond this podcast. Right? So you are a woman in recovery and, in addition to that, you have started your own business and you are working to help other people, other families in recovery, and I want to share all of the work you are doing, all of the heart that you have and the hope that you are sharing with other individuals and other families. So, first of all, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you let's take a quick moment to thank the people that support and sponsor the podcast. When life takes an unexpected turn, you deserve someone who will stand beside you. St Louis attorney Chris Dulley offers experienced one-on-one legal defense. Call 314-384-4000 or 314-DUI-HELP, or you can visit DulleyLawFirmcom that's D-U-L-L-E LawFirmcom for a free consultation. So let's start with a little bit of your story. So, in sharing with our audience, let's talk a little bit about you and your recovery, how you came to be in this field, how you found yourself here and what your hope is you found yourself here and what your hope is.

Speaker 1:

So I pretty much knew from the time I was in junior high that there was something off. And that's when I started drinking Dysfunctional Family like everybody's story somewhere and went through. I made it through college, graduated, moved to Aspen and skied for a year, went downhill from there, moved to Scottsdale, arizona, for a couple of years and then ended up getting married after that to the guy I moved to Scottsdale with Um. We had our first son in 1998 and um then had a second son in 2002. And I ended up kicking my ex-husband out when Sam was an infant and Jack was a toddler. Um and I drank for another four years and went, continued to spiral because it's a progressive disease and and then I finally decided I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 2:

What was your tipping point in terms of deciding that you were done drinking, because I know that for so many people. Obviously I am also in recovery, right Something else you and I have in common. It took a lot for me to get there, and I know that that is different for everyone, but you reaching that point is something that helps you to relate to other people. What was your moment in saying I'm done?

Speaker 1:

I think everything in my life led up to that. So three underage drinking citations by a time I was 17, three DUIs by 24, failed marriage and then just waking up every day and feeling like a loser and I hated myself.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's interesting that you say that, right? Because I think that there's so many people who can relate to that, waking up every day and thinking, what am I doing, why am I doing this? And for me, I would wake up that way. I frequently woke up at 3.30 in the morning and I would think, god, I'm doing it again. And I would convince myself that I wouldn't do it. But somewhere in the middle of the day the next day, I would think we're in the middle of the day the next day. I would think I'm going to do it one more time.

Speaker 2:

How did you tip out of the place where you were cycling? Because it took me a long time to stop that cycle, to stop the. But I can do it one more time. This time it will be different and I know for a lot of people it's that. But I can this time. But something can change. But you know, doing it over and over and over again and when you say, I felt like a loser, right, so many of us, when we're struggling, we do beat ourselves up. Do you know what it was that helped you to make that change? Because you're talking about a number of different things that for some people, people who are listening, who don't understand what it feels like to be there.

Speaker 2:

You had the citations, you had the DUIs For someone who hasn't been where we are. They think, well, if I got one DUI, I'd stop. We don't right when we're struggling, when we are in, they think, well, if I got one DUI, I'd stop. We don't right. When we're struggling, when we are in this place, we don't automatically stop with what feels like to one person might be just a bottom. What was the? The one thing that said okay, now I'm done. Like this moment I'm looking in the mirror and I'm saying, ok, jamie, you finally hit Done.

Speaker 1:

It was probably three thirty in the morning and I was walking home by myself and I came out of a blackout and and I prayed and I said, God, I need your help, please. I'm going to lose my kids. And they were four and a half and eight and that was it. I mean, I knew that at some point I would lose them.

Speaker 2:

So you know it's interesting. My kids factored into it for me too. I knew that I needed to make a change there too. So what did that change look like for you?

Speaker 1:

Well, for seven months I was sober, I changed my whole routine. And then my best friend from third grade, her husband, drank himself to death 36. And I remember it was a Friday night, I was with her, my boys were with their dad, and on Saturday I thought, oh my gosh, what if I start drinking again? And I had heard about AA. So that's when I went to my first meeting.

Speaker 2:

So at that point you'd been sober on your own sort of white knuckling it, yeah. And then you decided that AA was an option. Yes, Okay. And how long have you been sober now?

Speaker 1:

Almost 19 years. It will be in November. Congratulations, thank you.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing Thanks.

Speaker 1:

What keeps you on track? Faith in God and the support of the fellowship and prayer meditation working in the field. Okay, yeah, all those things.

Speaker 2:

So let's talk a little bit about working in the field. So you have started work on your own, I know for me within that first week of being in. So I went to treatment and within that first week I had a woman say to me part of your gift in this is going to be helping others. I am not active in a program because there are other things that I do to stay on track, but I know that staying active in helping other people has been key for me and you have started something on your own to help other people. Tell us about that.

Speaker 1:

It's Fresh Start Addiction and Recovery Consultants and I started this a couple years ago. My son died from a heroin overdose 2019. Okay, and when he started using, I had no idea what to do, so I would Google things, he'd go to wilderness camp, rehabs, all of that and so a couple years ago, I thought I can help other other people.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and yeah, I'm gonna backtrack for a second. We're gonna talk more about Fresh Start in just a second, so let's let's talk about your son, jack. Yes, so how old was Jack when he started using?

Speaker 1:

Probably 13.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and so for you, your struggle was alcohol. Jack's did it start as heroin.

Speaker 1:

No, it started with marijuana and then moved quickly to Xanax and Oxy and heroin and so, as someone who struggled with alcohol did the substances feel very foreign to you. No, because I also did other. I did drugs as well.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So, did you recognize?

Speaker 1:

the signs right away in him. Okay.

Speaker 2:

And as someone who had struggled on your own, what was your initial? Was your initial like? I can help him through this or, oh no, my child is going down the same path, like what is the? As a parent, because I know that for me it is one of my fears, right, knowing that this was something I struggled with. I'm also the adult child of people who struggled with alcohol, so I recognize the family, the threads that run through us, right, so I do worry about that being something that my kids could ever. It's a fear of mine, right? Was it something that had been a fear of yours when your kids were younger?

Speaker 1:

I don't know that I ever really saw it, I mean, or thought of it. Okay, I knew that he was impulsive and so I saw. You know he was exactly like me, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I saw, you know he was exactly like me. Okay, yeah, so as a mom, you're trying everything. Mm-hmm. How did he have periods of sobriety and recovery?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he did. Probably 11 months was the longest and then a few months here and there in between rehabs and that was that.

Speaker 2:

Okay, tell me about him.

Speaker 1:

He was very outgoing, he was funny, very smart, he loved skiing and Colorado was kind of our place and he was incredible.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, as someone in recovery, I have often said you know, we go through so much to pull ourselves out of that place. I wish that we would be exempt from the hard things, Losing a child has got to be the very, very hardest. I wondered when I was working to be sober I was working to be sober if there would be anything that would make it so that I couldn't stay sober anymore. I have experienced hard loss since going into, since being in recovery, but losing a child how did you stay on track?

Speaker 1:

Um first, I mean, it was God always for me and um I had a routine every day where I would pray, meditate, journal, exercise and make myself feel it.

Speaker 2:

So that's interesting, right? Because I think that the one of our instant go-tos is I don't want to feel, right? Um, as someone who was struggling with addiction, that's one of our things. We, we don't want to feel, so that's our. I just want to drink, I just want to. I don't want to feel what I'm feeling. Mm-hmm, did you find yourself tempted, triggered, thinking like I'm really having to work at this?

Speaker 1:

no, I didn't. I had. Sam was 17 at the time and and so it wasn't an option and I knew if I started drinking, that would be it, it would be over okay, what advice do you offer to other people who are going through something challenging like that? If you're sober, you know, do what you can to stay sober. If you don't have a higher power, find one, talk about it. If you need to talk about it, cry.

Speaker 2:

If you need to talk about it, cry, allow yourself to walk through the steps and grief, or that we learn how to feel, because I think that so much of what we do when we are actively in addiction is avoiding feeling.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So how important is it that we find a way to feel.

Speaker 1:

Well, I don't think you can make it to the other side unless you, unless you feel it. Um, if you, if you choose to cover up that pain, then you're going to wake up the next day and have the same pain. So you've got to deal with it.

Speaker 2:

What has been the the most healing part of all of this for you? You are. You've had to continue to work through losing your son, but you're starting something. Um, you have started a new, hope filled business that allows you to work with other families, but one of the pieces that we haven't talked about yet is that your other son, sam, works with you in that, and Sam is also in recovery.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So let's talk about that. Let's talk about the process of Sam finding himself in recovery. At what point did Sam choose recovery? Was it before or after losing Jack?

Speaker 1:

Sam was in treatment, was in a treatment center when Jack died Wow, and he had 90 days sober the night before Jack's funeral and fell off the rails two months later.

Speaker 2:

Sweet baby.

Speaker 1:

For two years.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

So and then he decided he's 23, got sober a little bit before his 20th birthday.

Speaker 2:

Okay, how is he doing now?

Speaker 1:

Great, had a baby last week.

Speaker 2:

Okay, talk to us about.

Speaker 1:

Sam. He got married a couple of years ago. He, when he got sober, he got his GED. He's in college, full-time works. Full-time works with me. He's amazing.

Speaker 2:

It is unique to choose recovery young.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right, how, and I think that the extraordinary piece is you have him working with you. So one of the extraordinary things about the work you are doing is you have you with your age, family experience, life experience that can walk families through the process. And then you also have Sam, who chose Recovery, young, who can offer his life experience and perspective. That makes what you guys do unique. Let's talk a little bit about the services that you guys offer. Let's talk about Fresh Start, so the services that you guys offer. Let's talk about Fresh Start, so the services that you guys offer, because I think what you do is unique. You guys are not a treatment center, right? So what does Fresh Start Recovery Services do?

Speaker 1:

So I figured out, you know, as I said, a couple years ago, and people had been calling me you, you know for help, for since they knew that jack, when they found out jack died, um, because they knew I had been in recovery for quite a while and um, that I had two sons that were addicts, and so then I thought a couple of years ago I could help, you know, in doing more, because I was such a disaster when they were using, I mean, nut nut ball. In what way? Because I was filled with fear. I mean I followed drug dealers. I was driving around at two o'clock in the morning trying to find one of my kids, yeah, I am familiar with that.

Speaker 2:

When you care about someone who is struggling, you are hunting people down. You are so worried, you are so panicked. You are tracking phones. You're doing anything to find people. Okay, so people knew that you were doing phones. You are you're doing anything to find people. Yeah, okay, so people knew that you were doing anything you could right.

Speaker 1:

So, um, I thought, while when someone comes to me now and needs help, not only can I place their loved one in a treatment center, but while they're gone I help the family, okay, and I work with them once a week, and then when the person returns, I find a continuum of care, therapy, whatever they need to help them, you know, be successful and staying sober okay, so you offer intervention services so so if a family says hey, I have someone who needs help, so you offer intervention from that capacity Right, so you will help someone figure out how to help their loved one.

Speaker 2:

You also offer transportation to a treatment center Right, if someone needs to go further away, but you help them. If someone says I don't know what to do, I have someone who's willing. Where do I go? What do I do? Right, okay, what does Sam do on his side?

Speaker 1:

Sam is great when it comes to dealing with teenagers and young adults because of his story and they relate more to him than they do me, because I'm this middle-aged woman, For example. He was not with me at this point, but I walked into a hospital to see a 17-year-old girl and she immediately said I'm not going to rehab. And I said, okay, can I tell you a story? And so I made it quick and talked about Sam and she said, okay, I'll go.

Speaker 2:

Really Okay. Did she take the time to talk to Sam?

Speaker 1:

No. No, but you just told her about Sam Right, so she connected with his story, right.

Speaker 2:

How powerful. So storytelling to me is the core of so much.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

That's why we do this Right. This is why I wanted this podcast to exist, because I think that the most powerful things that we hear are things that we already know, which boils down to hearing our story from someone else's mouth, right, hearing you tell someone an experience that you've had, that they're currently experiencing, and they think I am not alone, and that is what I think is so beautiful about the work you're doing continuing to drink and then making the choice to not your path of white knuckling and then choosing AA. And then, as a mother who worked to help your children, one is successfully in recovery and unfortunately, you lost one. But then there's the piece where you stayed on track for you right, and now you're actively helping other people. How do you define hope?

Speaker 1:

When I think of hope. I never gave up hope when it came to Jack and Sam. As far as you know, seeing them get sober one day. As far as you know, seeing them get sober one day. And so just allowing people to have the thought that everything's going to be okay and that things can change and you don't have to live like this forever. Now I always tell people just because we place your loved one in a treatment center does not mean that they're going to get sober. You know Right, and I have to be transparent from the get-go. It doesn't mean everything's going to be all right that day, but it might give them hope that it's going to change.

Speaker 2:

And it will Right.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's really, really important, right, especially because giving voice to our experience, right, being able to look at you now and you saying I have 19 years right, no one looks at you and says I bet you used to struggle with alcohol. Right, and I think that, generally speaking, I walk down the street and people don't say I bet that woman's in recovery. Right, but that's part of it. Right Is being able to say I want what you have right, being an example of what it can look like on the other side. And there are so many pieces of your journey that are the other side, right, the, the recovery piece, the surviving loss, the being able to help other people through this experience. In doing what you're doing, are you offering people experiences anywhere, like not just locally, right, you're not just saying hey, like we'll place you locally, it's anywhere.

Speaker 1:

So when I was trying to find treatment for Jack particularly, no one was asking questions. I didn't know what to do, so I would Google. That's where he would go, whoever was paying the most for the SEO. That's where they go, right, and no one was asking about trauma in his life anxiety, adhd, you know, mental illness in the family, and so when I meet with people, I find out as much history as I can about their family and the person that needs to go to treatment and you ask questions. That's how you learn, okay, and the places where I send people are out of state and typically 90-day programs and typically 90 day programs.

Speaker 1:

I've had a couple of people that could absolutely not do that because of kids at home and, you know, divorced or whatever, and and then I set up the continuum of care. If a person does not have kids or a spouse at home, they don't have to go home.

Speaker 2:

I try to get them in a facility that has aftercare with the sober living there and get them to stay at least a year. Okay, so you're bringing up some things that I think are really important, that the average person, or anyone who might have someone who's struggling, doesn't know. What are important questions to ask? If you have someone who's struggling and they are seeking help, or they're just in that beginning process of what do I do and they're going to reach out to you or to someone else, what are important questions to ask about getting someone help? So when they're, when they're trying to figure out, like, what do I do? You're mentioning 90 days, or should they go out of state? Should they like? What are the important questions they should be asking someone, because you said all people are doing is Googling or like the SEO, what should they be looking into?

Speaker 1:

Well, when I, when I ask questions, I'm asking um, when people ask me for help, you know, obviously I want to know where they've been, where their loved one has been, you know, in treatment before, if they have, and what was set up afterwards. But looking for, I don't love co-ed facilities for people for many different reasons, so I try to do stay away from co-ed Out of state I like. Am I answering your question? Yep absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I get off track here.

Speaker 1:

No, that's okay, no.

Speaker 2:

I think that I believe that when someone has a loved one who's struggling, they don't know what to look for, right, right. So what makes I'll make it simple what makes good treatment in your mind? What should I look for If I'm trying to help someone? What should I look?

Speaker 1:

for I look for treatment centers that have a solid clinical program psychiatrists, obviously, the therapy, the groups what else are they doing outside of groups? Is it mind, body, spirit, working out was huge for me getting sober. I like to talk to other people that have been at the treatment centers, other people that have used those that are consultants, that I've met out in the field, so those. But then really when I'm asking families about their loved ones, I ask a lot about trauma and their past. There's a lady that owns a treatment facility in Florida that she thinks all addiction stems from some sort of trauma, and I think that's fascinating.

Speaker 2:

That is interesting. I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I think that there's. When I think about all the people I know who have struggled, there is some type of correlation, right when you are making these recommendations. How important is family support or support for some type of support afterwards?

Speaker 1:

Oh well, it's huge. So you know you expect your loved one to work a program of recovery, so the family needs to do the same. And until I realized that I needed help when my boys were using, as I said, I was a disaster. And then one day, I mean I put myself in danger and was driving out of this horrible park and thought I need to get help.

Speaker 2:

I think so. This is a really important point because I have worked with many, many families who have someone who's struggling and frequently the thought process is my family member needs help. Right, take them, they need to go, do what they need to do, and once they get help, everything will be fine. And and the thought process that is neglected is that the other entities within the family, the other dynamic, whatever may have been contributing to that person who is struggling, is going to stay the same if everyone else doesn't at least take a hard look at themselves. How do you bridge that gap? How do you talk to a family and say I lovingly suggest that you also take a look internally, do some self-work, get some help, seek some therapy, whatever that may be, because I know that it's hard for people to say I might be involved in this as well.

Speaker 1:

Right. So I wish I can make it mandatory, me too, for families. I wish I can make it mandatory, me too, for families.

Speaker 1:

I mean it really. When I started this, I mean I know that I was difficult to deal with, right, difficult to deal with, that's how I am and that's how most are that are using drugs and alcohol, right. But it's really the families that are harder to deal with, and I get it because I was there. But it's really the families that are harder to deal with and think and I get it because I was there but that fear, you know, that overtakes everything. It drives you to do crazy things and you say things and out of fear you know my fear sometimes would turn to anger Like why are you doing this, even though I was in recovery and I know it's a disease? Why did I keep doing it Right? Why did I keep drinking? And so for the families, when I meet with them once a week while the person is away and I continue meeting with them when they get home, that's incredibly valuable. I love that you do that. I also.

Speaker 1:

I was not an Al-Anon person because when Jack and it saved tons of lives, al-anon has been a great program for a lot of people. For me, when Jack started using he was 13. Okay, and so I didn't find a connection with anyone in there that had kids. That young Nar-Anon was better, okay. And then one-on-one therapy is really what saved me with this lady was amazing. So I try to get people to go to therapy. Al-anon, at least check out six consecutive meetings in a row, okay, you don't like one, go to another one. And then I recommend classes One. There's a charge, and then there's another one in Kansas City and in other cities. That's no charge, okay, or you can do them online. So I really want them to start focusing on themselves but learning about the disease, and we don't want to be like this. It's not like I woke up every day going God, I hope that I. Today. I am just like I was yesterday when I woke up and I looked in the mirror and I hated myself.

Speaker 2:

It's. Yes, I can remember saying there is no one who wants this to change more than me, right? There is no one who wants me to stop drinking more than me, right? There is no one who wants me to stop drinking more than me, right? And I wake up every day and I think today is the day I'm going to stop this. And I was so angry at myself for not being able to control this and I couldn't figure out why. I felt like there were so many things in my life I could control. Why not this? Why, when I wake up at 3.30 in the morning and I think, god, I did it again, who do I have to apologize to? What did I say? Where is my car?

Speaker 2:

And I wake up in the morning and I think, okay, today's the day, I'm not going to do it. And by 3.30 in the afternoon, I think, okay, today's the day, I'm not going to do it. And by 3.30 in the afternoon, I think, okay, I can have one. It's just that I didn't eat enough. I didn't, you know, I didn't go slowly enough, I didn't drink water in between. I just I was a master at playing twister, with how I could finagle different things, and I just I wanted to find a way to control it. I didn't like that. Those people can have mimosas at brunch. Why can't I? Why can't I be normal? And I finally had to come to terms with the fact that this was my lot, right? Some people have diabetes, some people get cancer, some people have epilepsy and I can't drink, and it just. This is, this is my path.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right, it was just a hard one for me to accept, but having supportive people in my life was instrumental in me continuing to walk this path. So you offering those services is extraordinary.

Speaker 1:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

What advice would you offer to a family who has someone who's struggling?

Speaker 1:

Don't give up. Don't give up on them. Try to get help for yourself. Tell them whoever's's using you love them every single day. And one question that no one asked. I don't think anyone ever asked me is there something I can do to help you? What can I do? I love you. I see you struggling. How can I help?

Speaker 2:

that's so funny how can I help? That's so funny, Like how can I help? Was on my business cards.

Speaker 2:

Really hey, there we go, yeah, and that's I mean, that's how I answered the phone. I would say hi, this is Dionne. How can I help? Right, because I know that nobody asked me that either. Right? Right, there was a lot of why don't you stop drinking? Not, how can I help you figure this out? Right, because people didn't understand. There was a lot of stop drinking, but nobody understood that I was the one who wanted to stop more than anyone else, right? So I think that what you're talking about is so incredibly powerful. How can people find you?

Speaker 1:

What you just said a second ago prompted this when I was nine years sober, I found a journal and I used to journal when I was drunk and I'm a big journal person right now as well but I found a journal and two months before I quit, I had journaled, besides my boys. I hate myself, I hate my life and I don't know what to do. And I didn't know what to do because I played every game. It's like you said, I didn't need enough, I didn't drink enough water, I didn't do that. It was I didn't know what to do. And so I mean it's a scary place to be. Hey, you asked me a question and now I need to go back to that.

Speaker 2:

No, how can people find you how? Can people reach out to you to find your services, to if they've got questions or they even want to explore beginning this process.

Speaker 1:

So Fresh Start Recovery Consultants is my website. My phone number is on there, my email is on there, so they can just reach out.

Speaker 2:

And you're happy to help anyone. Yes, I am so grateful that you've spent time with me. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to share?

Speaker 1:

I don't think so, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for for having me, thank you so much for being here and sharing this, your story, sharing Jack's story and Sam's story. Thank you, and for being willing to share this piece of you and offer light and hope to other people who are struggling and to families who have someone who's struggling. I think it means so much. I think that going through this process is challenging. It's a part of my story, it's one of the reasons that I wanted to start this podcast and, while I know that this isn't a recovery podcast per se, it is. There is so much light to be found on the other side and I'm really grateful you're here, thank you. Thank you, and thank you so much, friends, for spending time with us. I certainly hope that Jamie's story has met you where you are and that you will take the time to share this with someone you know and, if you know someone who's struggling, that you will reach out to Jamie and that you will share this podcast with other people and, between now and the next time that you spend time with us, you will take very good care of you. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2:

Naturally, it's important to thank the people who support and sponsor the podcast. This episode is supported by Chris Dulley, a trusted criminal defense attorney and friend of mine here in St Louis who believes in second chances and solid representation. Whether you're facing a DWI, felony or traffic issue, chris handles your case personally with clarity, compassion and over 15 years of experience. When things feel uncertain, it helps to have someone steady in your corner. Call 314-384-4000 or 314-DUI-HELP or you can visit dullylawfirmcom to schedule your free consultation.