Terry & Cherie - The Sunrail Incident

Come with us as we discuss a disagreement and work though it together. there are just. couple of curse words... Let me know if you identify with our dynamic at all. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

But then don't tell me that I would that I harmed you if everything that I've done was not intentional.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

If you accidentally hit a person with your vehicle, are they any less hurt?

SPEAKER_00 0:09

No, it wasn't. No, they're not less hurt, but that is completely different.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Hi, hi, and welcome back to the bubbly babble. I am really excited about this episode. Um, I'm actually re-recording this bit after I went through and edited this episode. And I'm gonna be honest, it was an amazing conversation with my mom, and it's hard. And we, it's two women with ADHD, so do with that what you will. It ends sort of abruptly as well because of our ADHD. Um, thank you so much for letting me share this with you and um listening. Hopefully it helps. And uh we're gonna we're gonna call this the Sunrail fight, which it becomes so much more than that. Anyway, thanks for being here. So let's talk about why we were mad at each other, are mad at each other. Now you're gonna you're gonna bring it up and I'm gonna get pissed again. Good, we can work it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

I don't know if you're ready for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Okay. So for backstory, a couple of weeks ago you were on a cruise.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Oh, are we on? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Wait, are you mad about something else? No. Oh, okay. So you went on a cruise. I dropped you off at the train station on your way there. When I dropped you off, you were like, I don't need a ride home.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

No, I never said that. You absolutely did. No, I did not. I said, I don't know if I do. It all depends on the time. And I said, I won't be here. No, you never said that.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Either way, we didn't discuss it. If you think we never said it, then we didn't discuss it at all. But I remember you saying you were gonna Uber home because I'm probably gonna go straight to work.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, so I couldn't Uber home. I'd have to wait for an Uber and everything. No, that's not what you said. And sixty dollars it cost me.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Of course that's what it costs.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

So the reason I was mad.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Hold on, we're we're giving backstory.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Oh, that's right. So that's the backstory.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So the backstory is that I took you. You said, Hey, can you pick me up tomorrow around 1215? And I said, I can't. I won't be here. And then what did you say?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

I I think I said I asked you before, and you said you had told me you made plans. I'm like, why would you make plans when you didn't know if I needed you or not?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Okay, well, not none of what you just said out loud is a conversation that happened between us.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

And you said it'd be nice if you asked me and I sent it back to you and circled it, that I did ask you.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

That's you didn't read my entire text message.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Oh, I don't know if I did or not.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

You said, Hey, think you you think you can pick me up tomorrow. I think I get in at 1215.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

That was a question.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah. And I said, I can, I'm going to St. Pete.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

You said you have plans.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

You didn't say you were going to say it literally says I can't, I'm going to St. Pete. I'm reading the text message. And you said, Well, somebody needs to pick me up. Granted, I don't know if that's the tone, but that's the tone I heard it in. Of course, you always do. Okay, well then what in what tone did you say it?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

I said somebody has to pick me up. Like I needed to ride. But I wasn't, I I mean, you always be I don't even have to talk and you think it's derogatory.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

That's not true.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

You just did.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Well, first of all, things being misread via text is a universal problem. So you should keep that in your mind when you're reading things. So should you. Yeah. But we're talking about this conversation. Okay, but so for this conversation, I read it, but even if okay, so you said, well, somebody needs to pick me up. I didn't respond to that because I was busy. And also I didn't have a response.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Oh, okay. I didn't have a response. Well, don't say because you were busy. That's just what say you didn't have a response.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

I didn't have a response. There was nothing I was gonna say that was gonna be nice, and this is gonna come off very crass, and that's fine. It's not my responsibility, it's not my problem.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

But when your friends need rides to, from, here, there, you make time to do that. I am your alt-lady grand mother, and you should respect that. I how many times have I driven you all your life to um swimming practice and then pick you up and then take you to cheerleading practice, which was an over an hour away. I never let you down.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

First of all, it was your responsibility. I didn't have a license.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

It wasn't my responsibility to let you be active and all that stuff, like cheerleading. I was so tired that I used to pull over in Walmart and take naps because I couldn't drive all the way home because I was so exhausted.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

But I did it was my choice to quit, if you remember.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yes, I do. I think I forget what the thing was, but it was a discussion. It was a discussion. And it was a lot of work on. I didn't want it to make make it about me, so yeah, but you know, you kind of you are right now. No, I am right now because Did you pick me up?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I wasn't here.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

I have had tickets for a long time to that event. Months. But you didn't tell me that you were going somewhere the fu the before. You didn't ask. The last You asked me, are you gonna need a ride? No, I didn't. No, I didn't on the way to the airport you did.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Maybe I did. And what you what I remember you saying is I don't think so. I'm probably gonna Uber.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Oh, probably.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Right, but like you can't, it's not fair to just assume that I have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

I'm not assuming that you have to do that out of respect for for me. Listen, I've been reading stuff online too. Good. That you should, you know, that I'm your mother. You think I would ever say no to my mom when she needed me? Okay, but your relationship with your mom was not healthy. But what I'm seeing now and what I'm reading now on Facebook, I am not alone. You're not. You have there is somebody on there who just talks about why do these why do these people think that they owe us? Why do they we born them, we love them, we cared about them. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

And and where's my and we um I'm not laughing at you. I'm not laughing at you, but what you don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

And we love them, and then and the same stuff about you, like, why do you why do you need and it'd be nice to call them once in a while and see if they're okay and stuff like that. But like this everything that I said, and I it it it kind of like made me like, okay, I'm not weird. Good. Where's my phone? Here it is, I'll show you it. I saved them all. Oh, great. I'm so every time I see her, I follow her now. I don't know, she's I guess she's somebody. And I saved it.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

But here's the thing my generation, we all don't understand why you guys think we owe you everything.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

We I don't think you owe me anything. I but you owe you no, you owe me uh respect. You you need to care about me. I do care about you. But you don't show it. You show you show, I don't show friends. Your friends get more love from you than I do. You know, you feel like I don't do enough for you. I don't feel like I need you. I could ask you for a lot more things. I just don't because I don't want to get rejected.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Your generation, it's not just you, but you know what? We're talking about us. You guys think we have to put you ultimate first. And we're building our own lives.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

I was building my own life too. Every every child of every mother builds their own life. Okay, but if you have a if you are asked by me to do something important or somebody else, if somebody asks you to pick you up at the airport and I ask you, you're gonna pick them up. No, that's not true. I don't know, I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

It's never happened. So I know I'm saying uh well, yeah. Right, so it's hypothetical. There is some reason that you feel that way, and that's a thing that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

And if they even say you should be calling me and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I don't need you to call me. I mean it like you never check in, I could be dead.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Okay, but that's also called guilt. The thing is, not every relationship is the same. So, like, I hear you, and I'm glad that you have found people that make you feel validated. Because I don't want you to feel crazy, I don't want you to feel like, you know, but like y'all have also done some messed up stuff. Why am I your only option for a ride? Why do why do I have to be the person that's dependable?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Because that's what I was for my mother, and that's what anybody does for their mother, especially single.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yes, that is not what anybody does. Yeah, I don't oh my god, I think I've asked you for one ride in your life. You're joking. How many times have I taken you to the port or picked you up at the port? Once. You're wrong. How many times have I taken you to the airport or picked you up from the airport?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Oh, that's a couple times.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And you know for the airport because I didn't even know what it was like here. And you know what? I'm not keeping track.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, well, sounds like you are.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Well, because because you said I haven't done it, and that's simply not true. No, okay. But like this one time I couldn't pick you up. And then you what what it felt to me like your response was was like, well, somebody needs to do it and you have to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Oh no, that's not what I meant at all.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Then what did you mean?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

I meant somebody has to get me.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Okay, but so what was that conversation? So what was the point of that text to me? Of saying somebody has to get me.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Well, because I was stuck.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I understand. What was the point of that text to me?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Well, I'm not gonna think about why, because you were the one I was texting. Oh my gosh. Well, right, but so so what am I supposed to do with that text? Fix it? No, I didn't expect you to fix it, but I just said, Well, God, somebody has to pick me up. I would have I don't know if I would have prepared earlier.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Your response to me not being able to help you is really that's crazy. But I said, I can't help you, and you said, What do you mean? I'm always there when you need me now. Come on. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah, because I am.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

You're not always there when I need you.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

When did I ever say no?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

There have been times I don't keep track. You obviously do. Okay, but to say that you are always there every time I've ever needed you, because who do you reach out to? This is gonna sound like the meningitis story.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

But who but who I mean, who do you reach out to then? You usually call me if you're husband. I'm not saying that. Then you don't need me if you're husband. But when you need me, I I respond and I I I step up.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Right, but not if you're working. That's that's a conversation for a different and your job, super freaking unhealthy. Super freaking unhealthy. Your job, your work is your life, it has been your life. But it is, and it is because it's been that way for a long time, but also your work. This is a hard conversation. You don't realize, like you gave up everything to work five jobs for me growing up. I remember you had five banquet jobs, you worked so hard to give me the best of what you could. I believe that you did what you could in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

However, that that's your butt. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Well, I'm also only realizing it now, and let me tell you, realizing it in your 30s also hurts. Work was the most important thing in your life, and it still is, and it came before me, and it comes before them. It was there because of you. I understand that. But you need it to stay in school. I understand that. Like a realization that I had in the last two weeks is that like I don't know how to cook because you were not showing me how to cook.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

I used to cook once a week, twice a week.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

I don't remember that. I remember TV dinners.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

You know how to cook.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

I do not know how to cook, um. I don't know how to cook. And it's because you didn't teach me how to cook. No. Because you weren't cooking because you were who taught you how to crochet?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Myself. A book. My mother never taught me how to cook. I was social butterfly. I was never home.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Right. I get that. But if I'm being honest, yeah. Were you at every event? Sure. Did you take me with you to things? Absolutely. We stayed busy, which was some sort of a coping mechanism for you. Maybe it was. So I knew how to stay busy. I should not have been working two jobs at 16.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

No, but who bought your who bought your first car?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Absolutely. Yeah. But you taught me how to work. And you taught me how to do that.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

And my mother taught me how to work too.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

And your mother taught you how to work. Now, the thing that really sucks is all of that has come from hard times and scarcity mindset. The only reason, and I've like looked into it, like a job for widows to for single mothers to have, one of the easiest jobs was waitressing. And so you out of and this is why you're really modeling our relationship after the relationship you had with your mom is not appropriate because it was an unhealthy dynamic. You didn't know that then then, you're still learning that now. All you wanted was your mother's attention. All you wanted was to make her proud, make her happy, do whatever. So she was a waitress. What did you do?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

It was the easiest job to get.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Of course. But it didn't mean you weren't capable of other things.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

I was a cashier too in Walmart or something like that. I don't know. Two guys, two guys.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

But so when I was 16, you went into that. Life life circumstances became that it was you and me against the world, that it was, you know, a little bit like you were getting from me what you didn't get from your mom, which is like a person to give you all of the attention, right? And so we became what's called enmeshed. And then what happened? I wanted to be like you. So at 13, I got my first job in a restaurant, and now it's 25 years later, and I realize this is not what I ever wanted to do. There was no part of me that wanted this.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Well, you wanted to go to real estate school, I paid for that, you didn't finish it.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

I did finish it.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

No, you didn't. You never got your license.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I did. I just didn't use it because I didn't want to.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

You're crazy. You could have been selling houses.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

I did not enjoy it. I just I followed in your footsteps. I became like you. But like there why should I why should I have to be responsible for that?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

For what?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

For your plans.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

You don't have to be responsible for my plans, but if I ask you to do me something, and and here's I don't expect you to cut your plans out.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

I understand that. But so like you asked me and that's fine, but like if you are asking me something and you don't accept no as an answer, that's the problem. But you had said it'd be nice if you would have asked me. No, no, no. So I didn't respond because I was frustrated. And you said, okay, never mind. So a few hours go by. No, one hour goes by. And even though it was not my responsibility to fix, I said, Simon can pick you up. I will be out of town. That I have to so please communicate with him on timelines. Yeah. If he's picking you up, why wouldn't you talk to him about what time to pick him up?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I I have no problem doing that.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

I said I would like to be on. I don't think you should drop your plans. I wouldn't have asked you if I thought you had plans.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I understand that. But when I told you I had plans, you reacted poorly.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Because I had said to you I might need you to pick me up.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I had plans when you said that too.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

You didn't tell me that. You better I don't see it on there.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

It was a conversation in the car.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Oh I don't remember that. I was, I guess, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Uh but I understand that, but I told you honestly how I was feeling. Do you want to read the text and tell me how you took it? I would like that. Read my.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

No, I know how you I know I know how you talked. So I know when you wrote me a text and said that it was um What did I say? Um I really um don't I didn't I didn't feel good about the way that you wrote that letter.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah?

unknown 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

What else did I say? I don't need to be reprimanded because of the way I wrote something.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

If you made me feel bad, I'm letting you know how you made me feel.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I'm allowed to do that. You are allowed to do that, but that wasn't the time to do that.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

When was the time to do that?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Right now, you could have had that conversation right now.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Okay. Okay. I said I would like to be on it. First of all, I offered my husband as a ride. So, like you said you needed a ride, and even though I believe that it's not my problem to solve because I can't give you the ride that you are now asking for, I found you a ride. But I said I talked to Simon, he says he can pick you up.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Oh, I don't know if you said you talked to Simon.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

I'm I'm reading the text.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I just I think I just took it like But it's okay for you to take things the wrong way, but not me to take things the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

But I uh that wasn't a bad thing that he that I was it was he was gonna do it for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Okay. So I found you right. What I wanted to tell you was how mad you were making me and how rude you were being and how disrespectful it was and how it wasn't my problem. But I why would you do that? Because that's how I felt.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

It doesn't matter. Like I feel I have a lot of feelings about a lot of people and different things, but I don't tell 'em because I don't c like I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

You would you would prefer me not to care about you and to not tell you.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Not care about me, but like it's just me. Like I don't I'm not gonna be perfect for what you want me to be.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

No, but like you should care about how you people make you feel. People should up you give a person an opportunity to care about how you feel. I think. Okay. If someone hurts your feelings, uh-huh, you're allowed to tell them that.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Like who? Like anybody? Anybody. No, I would never.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

But you're allowed to. Why would you never?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Because um, you hurt my feelings all the time.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Oh, and you tell me.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

But I don't tell you all the time. Um, but I tell you like later or something, because I wouldn't tell anybody because I don't I don't care. Like that's not true. I don't speak, I don't care what they think about me. That's not true. My friends, yes it is. No, it's not. I think you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

You care about how people feel about you.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Oh, I do care about how people feel about you.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

You care about what people think about you.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

So if they're rude to me, I'm not gonna tell them.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Why not?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Because it's not important to me. Because it's not important to me. It's because you know, it's just in my life I've been dissed so much I'm used to it, and then I'm not gonna fight for it.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Oh, that's sad. That sucks.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I give up on people all the time, really easy.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Okay, so let's recognize how sad that is, first of all. That's sad.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Oh, don't make me feel like I'm a loser.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

It's not that you're a good thing. I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

But it's true. Like, I then when they act like that, I just think they don't like me, so why bother fighting with them? Like, I don't when they act like that, I don't feel that they care enough about me to act right or be nice to me. So then like Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Fair. But you also sometimes don't like sometimes people act a certain way. They don't know that they hurt you. So now you think they don't like you. Right. And then you write them off. Yeah. When they just said something wrong, or maybe they were saying a bad day.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Not just then, it's it's more things.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

But I mean you care very much about how people feel about you.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yes, I do. And I want to make everybody happy.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

You want to make everybody happy. But I've said it before, who's making you happy then?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Or just being around different people that aren't being nasty.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Whose job is it to make you happy?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Not not anybody else's.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

So whose?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Mine.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

But I can't be happy if people aren't being nice to me then.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Sure you can. It does it take work, yes. But like the first person who should treat you well is yourself. And if you're treating yourself well, you're not gonna you you're really not gonna have like, okay, that friendship, the that group of friendships that I just lost. What actually happened is I said, this thing occurred, it made me feel bad, it made me feel in a way that I don't appreciate. At this time, I don't want to move forward making plans with you because I don't feel safe. And so I removed myself.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah. And it's it's well, if I believe I did well, that's what I do. Like if I believe I'm I didn't do anything wrong and they're just being rude. So or they don't take the time to understand who I am.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

But you don't also try.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

You don't try I try to be nice to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Being nice is first of all, being nice is a scam. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yes, it is. No, because I really want to be nice to people. You think nice things and I want to do nice things for them. That's why I'm a server half of the I enjoy making people smile.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

But you are willing to hurt your body for it.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

I know.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

That's the thing. You want to help. People, you want to take care of people. And also, it's all you know is taking care of. If no one is looking out for you, if you're looking out for everybody else, who is looking out for you? And you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

I didn't care. You never do. I don't. I care about other people.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Except I think a part of you thinks it's my job.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

To what?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

To care about you in that way. To make things good for you.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

No, I don't. No. You don't do things that make me feel that you really care. That's why. Well, have you- When's the last time you bought me a Christmas or a birthday card or a Mother's Day card?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

A long time ago. Why? But I don't think you're gonna like the answer.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

But your friends ask stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I do not buy birthday cards. I think they're a scam. I would rather open a text and write my own words. Well, that's good. Or open a piece of paper and write my own words. That's good. A very long time ago you told me that your marriage, you knew your marriage was over when you could not pick out a greeting card.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

I experienced that in my relationship with you. I came to a place in my life where I couldn't pick out a greeting card. They all felt fake. They all felt wrong. I felt too harmless by you.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Because I felt you felt too what by me?

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Harmed by you.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Oh please. There's no way I ever harmed you. Oh please.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

You've harmed me in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I have not. I've done everything that I knew to do. So if you were harmed by anything that I have done. Ever. If you were harmed by anything I ever done, it wasn't it wasn't intentional. Of course not. But then don't tell me that I would that I harmed you if everything that I've done was not intentional.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

If you accidentally hit a person with your vehicle, are they any less hurt?

SPEAKER_00 23:44

No, it wasn't. No, they're not less hurt, but that is completely different. It's not. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

It's not.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yes, it is. Oh, you're going to tell I hit you with a car? Like it's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Uh you could argue some of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Not when I'm trying to do the best that I can to raise you, and then you're sitting there saying I harmed you. You did. Well, that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

But the thing is, I don't I know that you didn't do it intentionally.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Then why say it? Because it's still true. But then you still then you hurt me by saying that I didn't do a job, a good job. I've never said that you didn't do a job. Yes, you did. By st by harming you, I would have never intentionally harmed you. So that's saying that I didn't do my job.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

That's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

No. That's how I see it.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

I understand that. But the point, the point of these conversations is to work through it. And if you aren't willing to listen to me in these moments where I'm saying you have harmed me. And then if you're not willing to listen and even take a look at my perspective, then we're not gonna grow.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I don't, I don't, but I if I hit you or put you in the closet, something like that, um, then that's harming you mentally.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

If you told me when I was 19 that I was waddling and it was time to get surgery on my body to be thinner, that's harm.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Well, you were talking about doing that because I wasn't. Well, I thought that it worked for me, I thought it would work for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

I understand that. Yes, I think that you did think that it worked for you and that it would work for me. But at 19, I was given the message earlier than 19. I was given the message from you that my life would only be better when I surgically fixed it to be thinner.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

And I thought that it would be. You know, I am thought but I know. But you know what? You also need to understand that everything that was being told to everybody was was really bad, like not healthy. And I didn't want I it wasn't a it wasn't a um a be a big thing. It wasn't like you didn't look good. It was that okay. And you know, I thought that's what I lived with all my life. So I told you um that my mother only did what she was what she learned from her mother. I understand that. Then why or would you accuse me of harming you?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Would you say that you were harmed by the way that you felt about your body growing up?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

No, not my mother didn't harm me.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Who did?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

But that was the way that that was the way things were.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

I understand that.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

And it was it wasn't healthy to be big. So at all. So that's how I that's what I learned. I was on a diet where I ate six apples a day when I was like 12 years old.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

You put me on a liquid diet when I was 13.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

That was that was all protein by a doctor.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

It was a liquid.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

It was watched by a doctor. You were under a doctor's care.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I was being starved.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

No, because you were getting literally for the sake of thinness. Okay. But everything is different now. That's not the way we looked at things when we were young. It was bad for your heart. It was bad for a lot. I understand. You were more active than I could be when I was young.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

I'm still more active.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

I I I understand that.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

But but here's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

But I'm talking about back then.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

But I I can look at that situation and I can know that it's nuanced, and I can know that you did the best you could, and I can also know that it royally screwed up my insides, that it royally messed up my metabolism, that it most likely harmed my body for the long for the long term, and that as my mom doing the best you could, you encouraged them.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Nobody else was ruined up. Nobody, I don't hear of anybody that ruined their insides. That um I don't know about screwing up metabolism, that just goes with age. Um, so all these things that you said happened to you did not happen to me.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Have you had a lifelong battle with your size? Yeah. Okay. That's harm, right? So, like, I'm not saying that it's your fault specifically.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Well, it does sound like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I can understand that.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

I harmed you. You did. I don't I don't agree. But if I'm telling you that I feel physically that you feel harmed, to blame it on me? Am I blaming it on you? Yeah, you harmed me. You did, and you're blaming it on me.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Okay, so I should say all of society's perspective that most people experienced, but not everyone, came through the lens of you, but it wasn't your fault at all. I am doing the work to not do the same thing to my kid.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

And you have always had a mind of your own. And you were what, 18 at the time?

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I was 19.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

So I understand that, but like, it's one thing to say that you had influence on me, or that I always had a mind of my own, and you can't take I can't attribute any of my experiences to you. It's also not fair to say that I can only attribute good experiences to you.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

To any parent. Fine, but like I to say the to say that I harmed you is just it's just wrong because people don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

It's not wrong, though.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

I feel harmed by you. And you I feel way harmed by you.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Okay. I don't I reject that. It's wrong. How does that make you feel?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Because you intentionally do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I never intentionally harmed you. So if you're saying I I harm you, I'm saying I've never done it intentionally. So you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Being mean is harming. Being mean.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

But but I don't think I'm mean, so I've never harmed you. But do you see how we're having the same respect?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Do you no, like you don't think you were being mean when you walked out with a meningitis?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Oh, Jesus Christ. But so for so I I remember the meningitis incident very clearly. And I remember choosing a thing that was not gonna make you happy. But also, I gave you medicine, you weren't willing to go to the doctor, I went and got you medicine. Of course you don't remember that. I went and got you medicine. What'd you get me medicine for? A fever and a cold. We didn't know that it was meningitis.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

I know, but like my headache is the worst part.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Right. I gave you medicine, you wouldn't go to the doctor, and you wouldn't let me take you to the hospital. What was I supposed to do? Just sit around.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Make sure that I that I was okay. I could have died.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

You could die every time you walk out your front door. But that's not that's not a fair, that's not a fair weight to put on me.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

That's not a fair weight to put on me that I harmed you. You don't have guilt. I have guilt about a bunch of other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Well, you can't have guilt if you deny it. You can't have guilt if you're telling me I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

No, you're making me have guilt because you said that I harmed you. So now I'm thinking, oh my god, I harmed my kid, who I never would do, I would do anything for, and never did try to do anything to harm you or screw you up.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Okay, but you did.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

I just don't I think you could have kept that to yourself. Because there was never anything intentional. And then why would you harbor something that I didn't do intentionally?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Because it still hurt me.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Like if people like bump into me, you know, at work, I it doesn't, it's not, it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

I'm not talking about bumping into me. I need you to understand that your rhetoric, as I was raised, and again, not intentional, you did the best you could, okay? But your rhetoric taught me that my life was not going to be acceptable until I was thin.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

No, I you got me a treatment. Because you were accepted instead of things.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Because that's what you wanted. No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

No s no- You think I felt like paying for something that you didn't want? Because you were active enough.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Right, but I wasn't thin enough.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

You were and I never I never judged. I just didn't want you to go through life like I went through. Which was what? How did you want me to not go through life? Being teased and stuff. And what would change that? Oh, well, lose weight, but so what it's But I I kept thinking you were growing out of it because you don't you weren't like that until you had that POS thing. I don't even have PCOS. You well, he thought you did. Because I was fat. Because no, you gained weight so fast. You like overnight.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

No, I was fat from the time I was five years old.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

No.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yes, I was. But like, here's the thing. I'm not saying you specifically are the first person to have this idea and you harmed only me. There are millions of that sure is what it sounds like. I'm I'm that I intentionally harmed you. I'm sure that it feels bad, but just because it doesn't feel good to you and you don't want to hear about it, doesn't mean it's not true.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

No, that means that I failed.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

It doesn't mean you failed. It does. Okay, well, that then that's a thing you need to work on. Because I, if you fail late now. You're right. We should just quit trying for everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Well, I mean, everything that I did that I thought was doing the right way backfired.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

That's life, mom.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

School, church, that has to be God.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

We can talk about that. But like, that's the thing is like I'm not I'm not saying you ru you ruined my life. But part of my life experience is believing, whether you agree or not, is believing that my life would not be better until I was thin. And that ideal I got from you. You were the person that was supposed to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Well, what do you think now?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

I think that that was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Now, what do you think now what your life would be if you were thin?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Exactly, no different. Right. Actually, no. Now you're gonna take credit for this and it's gonna make me mad. Now I know that I've had all of these really hard experiences so that I can tell other people that it's not true, and so that I can help other people heal from these same things. Because I'm not alone. I'm not the only person that has these experiences. I'm not the only person whose mom told her he was she was fat.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

I'm not the only I never said you never said I was fat.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

But like encouraging me or pushing me into that surgery at such a young age. Can we please agree that was not right?

SPEAKER_00 34:10

No, I didn't know that I was pushing you.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Okay, but I'm telling you you were.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

But why didn't you tell me then?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

I was 19. I was not an adult, my previous.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Well, you were old enough to move when you were well but still not allowed to do what I wanted. You lived up here by yourself, down here by yourself when you were 19. And how how well did you take that? But you couldn't make up your mind if you wanted a surgery or not.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Wow, that's really gaslighty, mom.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

But I'm seriously.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

I know, but I recognize that all of the harm that you caused comes from you being harmed.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah. So like why didn't would you say that I did it? Because you know why where it came from.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

You know But it still hurts you.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

I'm re I'm just repeating what I learned. That's what I said to you a long time ago when Oprah was always having her, well, this is the way you treated me, and this is the way and I said, but why is she doing that? And I was protecting my mother when I said it, and even though I don't even know if she was alive then. Why would why would you say that? It's that's how she was raised. That's how her mother was raised, and it just trickles.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

But it doesn't make it right.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

No, it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it wrong that that person is doing it intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

No, but like, am I just gonna let you keep doing it? Am I obviously not? It's like we're weary.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Am I still doing it?

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

That's why we're in this.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yes, I think you should take G it G P L because it's nothing wrong with my body. No, there's nothing wrong with your body. I'm just worried when you get older. How did you feel going to school with me being that big?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I never thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah, you thought about it. Yeah, I did. You thought about it. I wouldn't I wouldn't have thought about it.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I never thought about it. You thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

And who was the star pupil with the doctor?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

He is also part of the problem. I had not a single health concern. The only problem was the BMI.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

BMIs are bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

But that's no, that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Uh they absolutely are. They're rooted in race.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

That's why BMIs are are real.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

They're not. They're not. We can do an episode where I educate you on the history of BMIs because before we do that, I'm gonna learn my history on BMI. Great. Can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Different book.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

I went from you told me that I you told me, and I remember your words very vividly. I can tell you exactly where we were standing on Main Street. So don't try to tell me I'm remembering it incorrectly. You said, you are waddling, it's time. That is what you said. And that was in April, because I have pictures from that day, and I had surgery July 23rd.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

And I remember a lot of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Of course you don't, but I do. And when I tell you, the first thought I had when I woke up was holy fuck, what did I do? Well, why didn't you? I I mean that because you were telling me what to do and you were my mom and it and I trusted you. Well, I I mean I did fine. No, you didn't. You had emergency surgery. And then remember, I aspirated for years and I choked and I got pneumonia.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

You still need surgery.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

And bronchitis.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

And you still need surgery.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

And I'm still gonna have to get this out of my body.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

So it's but you you know, it's not in your body. Like, I I don't think that it's okay. I think it's not gonna slip.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

It has already slipped, it is already probably in a real bad place. Sometimes when I bend over to my tie my shoes, I feel it pinging and pushing into places it's not supposed to. I feel my port attached to my abs. When I do push-ups, it hurts. Sometimes I still can't eat bread. Sometimes I still can't eat chicken. I am harmed.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yes, but you could have. I know. But you could have gotten this taken care of by now.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

No, I couldn't because it's$20,000 out of pocket.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

With either with his insurance, and it's a it's they don't cover it.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

I've tried.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

They go then go to the hospital and say that you're in pain.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

But none of that is the point, Mom.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Well, I I keep forgetting that you still have it.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

So right, but can you that's what I'm saying? Is like I have been harmed. And I'm I'm not blaming you, but it's true. But you said I harmed you. You did. This was your idea. I would never have had that surgery if you'd been pushed me.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Sherry, if I I if you listened to everything that I said that I thought was good for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

But I did at 19.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

No, you didn't. You still came and did the Disney program, and I wasn't real thrilled with it. And you know that.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

But I'm allowed to be a per you didn't want me to be, you did not want me to spread my wing. But what I'm saying is, I did trust you. I knew, I thought you knew what was best for me.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

And I did think it was best for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Right, but so with you as my guiding force, we're not even gonna spend time right now. Let me finish.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

So you can never trust me again.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

I'm not gonna spend time right now telling you about all the ways that that trust eventually broke down. But at that time, you were my mom and my best friend and had absolutely everything right to do for me. Okay, but also the more I grew, the more I became the enemy to you. The more I wanted to do my own thing, the more problematic it was. So, like, you didn't like that I moved to Florida. Nope. But I wanted, but that's not fair. But you moved. But that was after, that was years after surgery.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Only a couple years.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Still years, but still. All I'm saying is when I have conversations with you and I say, This hurt my feelings, you don't get that no one gets a right to say no, it didn't.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Well then you didn't think it through because I never did anything to hurt your feelings.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Okay, but me not being able to pick you up, I did not do intentionally to hurt your feelings. Yes, that's the first thing we started.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

I I I didn't think you did uh intentionally. But you still got mad at me. I was just mad that you you I you because you said I had plans. And the week before I told you I might need you.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

That's what this whole thing was was about.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

But even if you told me you needed me, I would have still had plans.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

I didn't say yes and I'm gonna be able to do the week before the week before, if you would have told me you had plans, fine. I did. I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

But just because you don't remember it didn't doesn't mean it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Okay, I'm not saying you're lying.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

But at the time that I told you, I didn't remember. You said you had plans.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

So you got mad.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

So I said all of a sudden she's got plans now.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

To myself. Right, but so then you got angry with me.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

I wasn't angry, angry. I was like, I was pissed and hurt. You harmed me.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

I'm sorry that hurt your feelings. Do you see how easy that was?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

No, you have to mean it.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

I do mean it. But that's that's what our argument came from was you asked me a questi. Please stop doing that.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Oh, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

You do it for him, then don't I knew you were about to say that.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Oh my god, I knew you were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

But like, okay, so that's what this conversation is about. I you asked me a question. I said I couldn't do it. From my perspective, it was like you freaked out.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

I don't need a ride. I gave you a ride, I don't need him. You did not have to say I said I don't need him. I said Simon will pick you up.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

And I said I don't need him. That's not nice.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

I talked to Simon and he says he can pick you up. I'm good. I don't need anybody picking me up, is what you said.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Okay. I didn't need anybody picking me up.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

I don't need anybody to pick me up. Like a week ahead of time or something. You're never there. That's what I meant.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I let you know a week ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Okay, but uh that's not what it says.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

But you know me.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

No, I don't. I don't understand your message. You said, uh, you're never there. That's not true. I'm not never there. Sometimes I'm not there. I can't be at your beck and call all the time. I can't.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

I'm at yours all the time. You shouldn't you shouldn't be in but I would be. Because usually the last person you go to that means that you're like SOL.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

That's actually not true.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

No, it's not not when it comes to the kids.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Oh, you're the first person I go to.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

With the kids, I know.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

I don't ask you for much else.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

I know.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

So what's your point there?

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Well, you know, like lunch would be nice, going here would be nice, going um, I want to take them to the zoo would be nice. You know, stuff like that. Okay like anything, anything.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

I have a question. When is the last time you said, hey, let's do something together? With the kids? When?

SPEAKER_00 43:01

I I I never do it anymore because you're always I have plans. I have plans, I have plans, I have plans. Because you make plans when you're off and I make plans months in advance. No. You want to see my calendar?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

No.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

No.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

But I do. I have a color-coded calendar with my plans, Simon's plans, his plans, our plans, everybody's plans.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I don't know what you did with um you put something in my calendar and I can't find it. All right, can't you know what it was?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Focus for like one second. Just one second. One Mississippi. I will get myself when we get off. I'll find my way. Thanks anyway, is what you said.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Uh Did I do that? Thanks anyway. I didn't Can we be serious? I didn't have to say thanks. If I was that pissed, I would have just went on my way.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I would have said no.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

I wouldn't have said anything.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Thanks anyway.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

I no, see, I was on a ship. You think I was like freaking out?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yes. No. I do.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

No.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

I do.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

No. And so I was perturbed, but I wasn't like, well, thanks anyway.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

That's a word of the day.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

And the thanks anyway was going more towards Simon than you.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

I want you to know that right now I want to flip you the bird. And then so I didn't respond because I didn't have anything nice to say. Can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Well, you should have thought of that earlier today. What did I say? And you said, it looks like to me I did ask you.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah, and I circled it.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

You did circle it. But what I had said was, I would like in the future, I'd prefer to just being asked and my answer respected. My problem is not that you asked. My problem is the way you reacted when I said no.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

You don't know how I reacted. I just said no.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

My problem is the text messages that came to my phone from you.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

But you also, when I said thanks anyway, twisted that.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

So that didn't happen like twisted, it's how I received it.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

No, I said thanks anyway.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

How am I supposed to know? It's via text message.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah, how are you supposed to know it's bad?

SPEAKER_01 45:08

You could say the same thing about you.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

How do you sp why you you take it as something bad?

SPEAKER_01 45:14

You take things I say as bad.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

And then you don't have to like think everything is bad when you do that.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Okay. But like the reason that I think things are bad is because we end up having fights about stupid shit.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

We didn't have a fight.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

That was a fight. Be serious. You didn't call me, you didn't text me, you didn't let me know you were home. You the way that you fight is silent treatment.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I Oliver texted me. He knew I was home. I actually thought Oliver was doing it because you said CFG's home yet.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

No, I have your location. I know where you are at all times. Well, I want yours. You can't have it. It's a boundary.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

I don't have any boundaries. Um actually, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

I have your location because you're old. Something could happen to you, and you take my children. I need to know where you are at all times. That's absolutely fair.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

You don't trust me with your kids.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

That's not what I said.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

That's a twist, Mom. I twisted that. I did twist that. I that was intentional.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

I know. That was intentional harm.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

That was intentional what?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Harm.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Yes, it was intentional. No, that was intentional.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

But so I know when you're home. When I know, I also I know you. I know when you're not speaking to me. I can tell you.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Well, I'm okay with you. I don't need to talk to you every day.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yeah, but there are times when you are just not speaking to me. Oh, yeah, there's times. That's I mean, that's how you respond. I well, it's better than getting in an argument to me. I understand that. But but that like this is a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

And the point of But I, you know, I'm not thrilled with this conversation. I know you're not. Because I've got to leave and think that I ruined your life.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

You ruined my life. I'm gonna ruin theirs.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

No, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Yes, I am. I'm gonna mess something up. I understand that.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

But I'm gonna do the mine was a huge mess up. You better not you But like that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

The reason I'm having these conversations with you is because I want to have a relationship. Not everything.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Better hurry up. Time's a chicken, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

The reason we're having this conversation is because I want us to have a better relationship. And I need to be able to tell you, hey, what you said hurt me or upset me. And I need you to be able to say, okay, and just take a look at it. You are your need your And vice versa. You know that I do. And like I need to be able to tell you, like, hey, I didn't like that. Like I wasn't trying to start a fight with you. I'm just just trying to tell you how I felt.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

I know that, and I appreciate that you um care enough to want a better relationship.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

But can you just believe that then sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 47:48

I try. I do try.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Do you? You know what?

SPEAKER_00 47:51

It it's all comes back to when you were so mean to me, like at his first birthday party and stuff. It's just, God, you were so mean. I haven't cried in three years, and when I think of that, I almost cry. I should do it just. Then you should cry. No, I don't hold it back. They aren't there.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Yeah, but you're a little broken. Like you need to un and like we can talk about that, but like at that point in my life, I felt like you were overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

I wasn't. I was the same person I always was, always did. So it was something with you and not me. There was I was at my grandson's first birthday trying to help, and you were just embarrassing me and yelling at me and being mean to me in front of all your friends. And I was like, like they even looked at me. Like you just were treating me like horribly shit. And you're I don't know about your dad, but you talked about him the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

You were both annoying.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

We were annoying. We were we were who we always were. We were we we yeah, we were your parents, and sometimes you're annoying. That's fine, but we are not mean to you when you are.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

You have been plenty mean to me before. When? Plenty times. I don't keep track in the same way that you do. Oh, yes, you do. No, I don't. Yeah, meningitis. I harmed you. You did harm me, mom. You did. And here's the thing maybe talk to a therapist about it. Maybe say this is what my daughter is saying, and I don't understand it. How could that be true? And maybe they give you a different perspective. Sometimes you can be a lot to handle.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Why?

SPEAKER_01 49:33

You're a lot.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Why? Like Al. I have a strong personality. You think you don't?

SPEAKER_01 49:38

I know I do. It's not that though. We need to close up this episode and not get sidetracked mostly because you gotta go. You gotta check it out. Not because we're talking about me. Yeah, right. But I mean, all I'm trying to do is just have conversations with you when something goes well something happens. We were mad at each other.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Don't be why were you mad at me?

SPEAKER_01 50:02

I thought you were incredibly rude because I couldn't pick you up.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Wow. Well, you've been rude before.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Fine. I fine. I'm allowed to be upset about it. Yeah. And so we were fighting, and that's why I said, let's have this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

But don't make a mountain out of a molehill. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

But if it felt like a mountain to me, it didn't necessarily feel like a mountain.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

I didn't think so.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Right? But like it did feel to me like you were angry because I said no, which meant that you expected to meet me to be your problem solver. You expected me, and out of respect, I had to pick you up from the airport. And that's not fair. Okay, thank you for coming on the podcast. See you next time when we talk about how you hurt me and harmed me.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Oh, I got I got a list for you, too, buddy. Let's get ready.