No Ordinary Monday
The No Ordinary Monday podcast brings you the most incredible tales from people's working lives. Each week, we meet someone whose work is anything but ordinary - they may be clearing landmines, blowing up movie sets, or exploring uncharted caves.
We dive into the how, the why, and a life-defining moment they’ve experienced on the job. Whether it’s spine-tingling, hilarious, or just plain jaw-dropping, their stories will challenge what you thought a “career” could be—and maybe even change the way you think about your own.
No Ordinary Monday
Flames, Flow and Fallout (Firefighter-Paramedic)
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DISCLAIMER: This episode contains content that may be distressing for some listeners. Please take care while listening.
The siren is silent, the room is calm, and the heart is racing anyway. That’s where our conversation with former firefighter–paramedic Christy Warren begins—inside the strange quiet before chaos and the laser focus that follows once the job lands in your lap.
Across twenty-five years in busy California systems, Christy moved from ambulance to engine to captain, making ten-second front-yard assessments and leading crews through flashover flats, freeway pile-ups, and the awkward, exhausting reality of lifts that manual-handling posters never imagined. She explains why first responders frame calls as tasks, not heroics—cut the roof, force the door, find water—because it’s the only way to think clearly when seconds matter. We go inside station life too: the dry humour that keeps people human, the constant cortisol even during a film at 9pm, and the everyday rituals that get interrupted by someone else’s worst day.
Then the story turns. Christy revisits a children’s house fire where triage collided with scarcity and, years later, the penthouse search that “broke the box” she’d been stuffing full of hard calls. She speaks bluntly about nightmares, intrusive images, rage, and the morning she planned to drive into a tree. What changed the trajectory? Admitting the truth, going off on workers’ comp, and finding a peer community at a six-day retreat where firefighters, medics, cops, and dispatchers speak the same language. EMDR began to work. Shame loosened. The nervous system found a way back to baseline.
We also dig into culture change: how “suck it up” is slowly being replaced by debriefs, peer teams, and early intervention that treats psychological injuries like line-of-duty injuries. Christy shares why she’d choose the career again without hesitation, even as she lives with a body mapped by surgeries, and how the work reshaped her view of fragility, poverty, and resilience.
Christy's Website - https://www.christyewarren.com/
Her Book, "Flashpoint" - https://www.amazon.com/Flash-Point-Firefighters-Journey-Through/dp/1647424488/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UGYTTSWXHTGE&keywords=flash+point+christy+warren&qid=1675272624&sprefix=flash+point+chri%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-1
Her podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-firefighter-deconstructed/id1500483348
Other links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christy-warren-17a978186/
https://www.instagram.com/ffdeconstructed/?hl=en
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One moment, you're drinking coffee at the station. And the next, you're staring at a burning house making split second decisions. Decisions that carry the weight of life and death.
SPEAKER_03:It's like you sit around the station waiting for somebody's worst day of their life, and then you're just like plunged into just absolute chaos and insanity.
SPEAKER_00:For 25 years, Christine Warren was a firefighter paramedic. Her world was adrenaline, urgency, and solving impossible problems under pressure.
SPEAKER_03:Well, we're just plunged into that. You know, they talk about like the being in the flow state or whatever. It's like bliss. I mean, it's the high from it afterwards is just tremendous.
SPEAKER_00:But every rush has its cost. Behind the calls, the rescues, and the adrenaline highs, there were moments that Christy just couldn't leave behind.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, we saw horrible, horrible, horrible things. I went to put this guy in that box, and there was no more room. Like that box had been full. Like it kind of like box pressurized and blew up all over everything. And that's really where I started to struggle.
SPEAKER_00:Hello and welcome to another episode of No Ordinary Monday. Thank you so much for joining us. I am your host, Chris Barron, and each week I sit down with a guest whose job is far from ordinary. We explore how they got there, what it's really like behind the scenes, and then I ask them to relive the single most unforgettable experience of their career. Now, if you enjoy the show, make sure to follow or subscribe. That way you won't miss out on any of the incredible guests we have lined up for you. Just a very quick note before we begin: this week's episode does contain descriptions of traumatic events, PTSD, suicidal thoughts, and mental health struggles that some listeners may find distressing, so please take care while listening. My guest today has spent more than two decades on the front lines of chaos. As a firefighter and paramedic in California, Christy Warren raced into burning buildings, cut crash victims free of mangled cars, and carried people through the worst days of their lives. But the job that gave her adrenaline and purpose also took a toll. After years of service, she was forced to confront the hidden costs that many first responders experienced. PTSD. And her journey through breaking, healing, and recovery is as powerful as any rescue she's ever made. And as you heard in that opening, her big story takes us back inside the scene of a traumatic fire, where the weight of a single call finally tipped the balance and changed her life forever. So step back as we explore what it takes to build a career in fire and rescue and what it means to come out the other side. You're listening to No Ordinary Monday? Let's get into the show. Christy Warren, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_03:Chris Barron, I'm good. How are you?
SPEAKER_00:Fantastic. Thank you so much for uh jumping on the podcast. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm super honored. I'm doing real well. I'm doing really well. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00:I guess uh things are a lot calmer now than maybe they were 10 or 15 years ago in a morning like this.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, things are much calmer now. Almost to the point where I'm I struggle with boredom and and missing uh the the craziness that ensued.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean I mean I I think we should probably just go back and just explain w I mean how what's the best way that you would describe the career that you had for you know like 30 years or whatever it was? How young best described it?
SPEAKER_03:It was 25 years. It was um it was incredible boredom pierced by like moments of insanity. You know, it's kind of funny because I mean when you think about it, we you know, we basically, you know, as a firefighter, it's like you sit around the station waiting for somebody's house to catch on fire, or waiting for, you know, somebody to get hit by a car, or waiting for, you know, just some somebody else's like worst day of their life. And uh and so it can it can be tremendously boring at times, and then it it can just be you're just like plunged into just absolute chaos and insanity. And um but it was it was the best it was the best job in the world. I just can't even begin to uh to describe what a great job it was and how much I enjoyed it. And you know, go going on calls, you know, especially like critical ones, it just like you find this clarity, or I found this clarity that I can't seem to find in anything else that I've done. You know, they talk about like the f being in the flow state or whatever, and it's like that's where uh at least for me and I think a lot of us first responders, like that's where we we do our best and we're at our best. Like none of us are good planner planners. I think m pretty much all of us have ADHD. And um when we're just yeah, plunged into that, it's it's it's like bliss. I mean, it's it's the high from it afterwards is just tremendous. I mean, we saw horrible, horrible, horrible things, but the call itself was uh it was just tremendously gratifying.
SPEAKER_00:It is such a it's such a paradoxical like job to do. You know, of all the jobs you can do, like you say, you know, you're seeing people on the worst day of their lives often. But like I guess if if you have a call that th that you do save someone's life or you do save someone on the worst day of their life, you come out of it feeling I mean, would you describe it as euphoric or or what is that sort of feeling?
SPEAKER_03:Um you know, it's kind of interesting when you you know you talk about like saving somebody's life. It's like we uh it's like it it doesn't happen very often where you like save somebody's life like right in front of you. And I think it's really you know, we really it's more about like getting the job done than like looking at it as saving their life, if that makes any sense. Because I think if you look at it if you really look at it as p as somebody's life in your hand, like at the moment, then it'd be just too hard. You know what I mean? It'd be really overwhelming. So it's really about the job. Yeah, it's about getting, you know, it's about uh getting a car door open or getting a car the roof of the car cut off so we can get the person out. So it's really about our task and doing our tasks really well.
SPEAKER_00:It's interesting just the way that you know you frame that in your head, and maybe you and your colleagues think about it the same way. It's like I'm just doing I've just solved a problem. You know, I just did this thing and I just went to the next thing. Um yeah, it it's a fascinating mindset to the problem. That's exactly right. Yeah. Um but I guess it's about solving a problem.
SPEAKER_03:Like you hit the nail on the head. Like we have to we have to solve these problems very quickly and with very little information too. You know, like if I pull up on a fire and I'm you know first in and I'm the captain and I I need it's like I have to make all these decisions on how we're gonna attack this fire, where I'm gonna get my water from, all this kind of stuff. And I'm just by pulling up in front of the house and looking at it, you know, I I have like 10 seconds to make an assessment and then make a flurry of decisions that could meet could mean life or death at the time. I don't think about it at that time. I just think about like, okay, like you say, the task and solving the problem. And so um, so it's kind of like I think that's kind of where the rush comes from is having to do an a lot of things that are very high stakes with very little information and in a very short amount of time.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, let's just go back. I mean, I'd love to sort of um just give listeners like a big a bit of a snapshot of like your career to an extent. It's kind of split into sort of two main first responder categories, isn't it? And just walk us through that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I I originally wanted to be a doctor and um and I thought it'd be fun for a summer to like get a job on an ambulance. And uh you know what I mean, like I've always was like the person who like saw an ambulance go by or a fire engine go by and was just like mesmerized. And I watched uh the show called Emergency, which um was a pretty big show in the 70s, and uh it was about two firefighter paramedics, and I it was just like my favorite show in the world, and I it's like I always in the back of my head I always wanted to be a firefighter, but at the time I never saw a woman firefighter, so I and I never thought it was like that it was possible that I could do it. Yeah, but anyway, so uh I got a job on the ambulance and I worked in this city called Vallejo, which uh is a pretty violent city, and um so we were very, very busy on lots and lots of trauma. We had lots of freeways and highways too that intersect through the city, and so wow um I had the time in my life, like I was good at it, I loved it, and so I said, forget being a doctor, like I want to do this, and so uh I went to paramedic schools and uh got my paramedic license, and so I worked in Vallejo as a paramedic for uh seven years, something like that, and really had the time in my life, and um and then I saw that I kind of wanted something more, and I uh and I also really wanted to be a firefighter, like I saw what they did, and I really wanted to do that. You know, I've always been athletic and play sports, and and so like that whole physical part of that just really um enticed me. So I started testing for fire departments, and so I first got hired at uh a small department in the Bay Area in California, and um yeah, I was just smitten. And then I I wanted to work for like a busier, kind of more inner city department, and that's when I uh got hired at Berkeley, California. And so then I was a paramedic firefighter for the rest of my career. And I had all the positions I was like I said, I was a paramedic there, I was a firefighter, I was a driver, so I drove the fire engine for several years, and then I uh promoted to captain, and so the captain makes all the decisions on the engine, and um it's a lot of responsibility, and I'm not patting myself on the back in any shape or form, but the but the job itself, like you just I mean, you have you have you're the one that makes all those decisions under pressure, and you also have your crew's life at stake, and you have you know the citizens' lives at stake, so there's there's a lot on your back. But uh so yeah, so I do I I did a total of uh 25 years working in pretty busy systems.
SPEAKER_00:That's amazing. I also interviewed another paramedic in the show, and that you know, while the sort of life-saving aspect of it was like you know, an important part, it was like the adrenaline of the entire thing was the draw. You know, it was like, you know, it's exciting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, when people, you know, ask all right, you know, like if you ask them like why do you want to be a firefighter, and they say to help people, and it's like, yeah, okay, that's that's not why you became a firefighter, like that's not that's not it. You know, there's there's there's a million ways to help people, you know, to to be a service of people. And uh so yeah, there's way more to it than that.
SPEAKER_00:And what's it like? I mean, we always love going behind the scenes on jobs on this on this podcast, and and what is it like behind the scenes? You kind of said at the beginning it was like, you know, extreme boredom intersected with extreme chaos, but like, you know, kind of break those two sides of the job down a little bit more and and give us a a look at that.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, so you know, we work 24 or 48 hour shifts, kind of depending on what department you work for. You know, we usually have a little sh meeting with the crew about what's happening for the day. We might have training or you might have to go do fire inspections, and um, you know, we have to go shopping for lunch and for dinner, and and so like you have the you have kind of this like monotonous day planned out, whether it's training and like I said, all those other things. But always in the back of your mind, like at any any second, like you have to be ready to go, you have to be ready to drop everything and um and go, you know, to insanity. And they actually I read some study where they were doing uh testing for cortisol levels in firefighters, and they found that even when they're sitting in the recliner watching a movie, eating ice cream, you know, like at nine o'clock at night, their cortisol levels were through the roof because you still it's like you're on. So even like it if you work for an apartment or you're at a station that's like relatively slow and you don't run a lot of calls, like your your body is still just being hammered, your nervous system is still being hammered, you know, all the time. So um, yeah, and then you know, you alluded to having fun. It's like we absolutely you like you have to have fun. And I think firefighters are some of the funniest people in the world, and um you know, we do mild-mandered pranks on each other. Um, you know, we we laugh a lot, we give each other a hard time. Like you have to have some pretty thick skin to be a firefighter. And uh yeah, we give each other a ton of crap. Like if you if you t let somebody know that you hate broccoli, it's like guess what you're eating for dinner every single night, and um, whoever the chef of the night is are gonna be making broccoli every single night. So just you know, it's just good fun. You like good fun.
SPEAKER_00:And I guess the other the other big thing with yourself is obviously you were going into I mean, transitioning from being a paramedic, you were then moving into being a firefighter, and you were a woman moving into a heavily male-dominated. I mean, it's not just male-dominated in the sense of like, I don't know, at that time like many careers were male-dominated, but this is like a sort of almost physically, you know, it's almost like only men can do this job because physiologically, how could a woman do it? And how did you how did you navigate that? That must have been, you know, you had to have so much determination to to push through all that kind of nonsense.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you you really do. You know, like being a woman, it's like I had to work twice as hard to get like half the amount of respect. And you know, I really went into it with a attitude of like I'm not gonna tell anybody that I can do this job, I'm just gonna show them I can do this job. I'm just gonna do it and not talk about it. And um, I'm like, I'm never gonna say like uh I demand your respect just because I'm a woman. I was just like, no, I'm just like everybody else, and you know, I never wanted to be treated any differently. And and you know, I also look from the fact that like a man's tre uh a trepidation with a woman, you know, I'm five foot six, I'm 150 pounds, you know, seeing me walk through the front door, their trepidation is is uh is I think legitimate. Like if you know, if I'm six foot two and I'm 250 pounds and I go down in a fire, I'm gonna say, is this short little lady gonna be able to pull me out? But when it comes time to crawl through a window, like I'm gonna be the one that crawls through the window because they're not gonna fit through the window. Like I crawled in all every attic there was to crawl through or crawl space under a house, it was I was the one that was sent, you know, I was the one that went through all the windows, all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, it takes it really takes all shapes and sizes, you know, to do the job. And so, um, so yeah, that's really the the attitude that I went in there and and I felt like I I think I earned every people's respect. And I I was never treated poorly. I mean I had people say, Yeah, I don't believe think women belong here, but um yeah, I was fortunate in that I was never treated poorly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I mean you alluded to some of the the sort of things that you had to do there, you know, crawling through windows, and I'm sure in a fire, you know, uh in a building on fire, you got lots of like debris falling, places to crawl through. I mean, w what kind of you know experiences can you recount um that sort of stick out in your mind of of you being you know d doing what people might visualize a firefighter doing?
SPEAKER_03:Well, um just to visualize it, like we wear a lot of gear. Um it's a very hot and sweaty job. And uh you very you the other thing too is like there's very little that we do that's ergonomically correct. You know, like um you like just lift like you know, so when people are like having a major heart attack, like one of the things that happens with their nervous system is um like they feel like they need to go to the bathroom. So a lot of times when you find patients who are having a big heart attack, you find them in the bathroom and they're really sweaty just because of their heart attack, and they tend to fall behind the toilet, like and so like picking up 300-pound person who is soaking wet and is falling between the wall and the toilet, like you there's no ergonomically way to do that. Yeah, and so um it's just uh yeah, it's just really physically demanding and um you know, like we have our chainsaws like come with warning labels, like do not use this above your head, and don't use and it's like we have to use we use chainsaws all the time, and you know what I mean in every manner possible and above our head and reaching really far and standing on a you know pitched three-store a roof on a three-story building that's got a pretty good pitch to it, you know, trying to cut open a roof and and uh so yeah, there's we just it's just it's it's pretty crazy what we we do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I just I keep thinking of like you know, all the like the occupational health and safety standards of like working in a factory and lifting like heavy loads, like straight back and and and all that kind of stuff, which can never apply to the situations that you found yourself in. I'm sure you've got like colleagues in yourself probably with like all kinds of injuries, you know, like you know, slip discs and stuff from like lifting people out of as you say, like 300-pound people out of an awkward position. It must do all kinds of damage to your body.
SPEAKER_03:It it it's I'm like speechless. Uh it's unbelievably damaging to your body. Like I I had no idea that it was gonna do like my orthopedic surgeon calls me his annuity because I'm in there so much. And um and it's not just me, like I all my I worked with a guy who was just he was amazing. He's like a physical specimen. He was so strong, like naturally strong and well built. And he was a guy that I thought would never, you know, and he ended up like m having starting having knee problems, which and hip problems and back problems, like and he had to retire out on it, not because not on a service retirement, but he had to retire out because of his injuries. Wow. Like we it's it's phenomenal what it does to your body. Like I I I've had I think nine orthopedic injuries and or surgeries, and now I'm like my next one that's coming up is I need I have to have back surgery. And um so yeah, it's it's I've had a I'm only 55 and I've had a shoulder replacement and it's yeah, it's tremendous takes a tremendous toll on on your body. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, yeah, absolutely. I mean, would you be able to take us through a couple of the I guess the tougher cases that you the tougher would you call them call-outs uh in the industry and the UI?
SPEAKER_03:We just call them calls. Some people call them call outs, but yeah, we just I call them calls. Um yeah, like one uh particular call that um when I got PTSD and I started having what they call um intrusing intrus I can't even say the word right now. Intrusive thoughts, that's what it was. Yeah. Um where I I started I have a like a videotape in my head that would play in the like a loop of like bad calls that I'd been on. And you know, there's a call early in my career as a paramedic, and um there was a house fire, it was during the day, and it was only a couple of blocks from the station I was at. And um, so the fire department was obviously dispatched first, and they got on scene first, and uh, we were on scene shortly behind them. And the system that I worked in, there's only one paramedic on the ambulance, and this is before because we typically have paramedics on fire engines now too, but this is before any of that. So when we got on scene, I was the only fire or I'm sorry, I was the only paramedic on scene, and uh it was a two-story house, and we arrived on scene, there was flames you know blowing out of all the windows in the um the second story, which means that it had flashed, and what that means is every single thing in the room catches on fire like at the same time, like instantaneously, everything reaches its ignition point. So everything in there is on fire. And so um we got there, um we found out there were four kids inside on the second story when or in this in the that second story. So fire department like you know went to work. Um the one of the uh firefighters came out and said, I you know, I need you I need you to come inside and look at something, and I'm like, okay. So the first floor is completely you know clean and safe and look normal because the whole fire is on the second floor and above. So anyway, so I went inside and there was a kid that had been burnt like beyond recognition. And um so the I think I think the firefighter like knew there's nothing that we could do, but like just needed to confirm that and um and make that and have somebody else make that decision. And so I was like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The kid was already dead at that point, was it?
SPEAKER_03:Well the kid hadn't had no ears and no nose and was charred and completely um like hadn't really no fingers left. I mean it was burnt so badly that yeah, it was compl it was there was nothing left. So, you know, I said you have to leave this inside and uh because I can't bring it out because you know there's bystanders and the mom is the mom was out there just screaming, just like screaming and screaming and screaming. And uh so I went back out and then um then like one kid after another was brought out by the fire department, and so like they guy firefighter comes running out and uh he hands me a like a two-year-old that's like limp and is burned and you know skin hanging off of him and and hands them to me. And so I run and lay him down in the back of my ambulance and I'm starting like I need we the priority for anybody who's been burned like this is to get an airway. You have to get an airway in because the throat will swell and the lungs will swell and you won't be able to um and then they won't have an airway, so you can get an airway as fast as possible. So I was about just getting ready working on doing that, and then like out comes another firefighter with another kid, like the same thing, even a younger kid. So I get that kid, so now I got two kids on my gurney, and I'm the only paramedic. I have an EMT partner who can do minimal stuff, but um, and then another kid comes out of this house, and so I have three not breathing, limp, burned kids on my gurney, and uh and it's like that's the kind of stuff they don't teach you, you know, in paramedic school. Like, you know, like I mean they teach us the triage and you know, and that kind of thing, but it was like okay, like who do you work on first? Who do you take care of first? And yeah, I was fortunate enough that uh another ambulance got on scene, and uh so I just like it was almost like a football, like here, take this kid and just and go. And uh and so I started working on the rining kids, and then finally another ambulance pulled up and uh and I was able to hand that kid off. And um I mean we could have took taken off to the hospital with the two kids right away, but the everything I mean it happened so fast that uh that I was fortunate enough to have uh be able to e have each kid have a paramedic to be taken care of them. So yeah, that was a pretty uh that was a tough that was a tough one. That was a really tough one.
SPEAKER_00:What happened to the kids though, you know, at the end of the day? Didn't you they get to the hospital? Did they survive?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so yeah, so they all got to the hospital and um they ended up getting uh it was kind of a big deal in the community because the city's not very big. And uh so they all got uh like stabilized in the emergency room and then they got they all were flown to children's hospital in Oakland so they could be, you know, taken care of at a much better facility. Yeah. And so um I believe they all lived. I'm not exactly sure if they all live. Like one of them was burned like really bad. And so um but yeah, and that's kind of the thing where you're like, I don't I don't know if I I don't know if I saved a life. I mean I or you know, they we gave them I do know that we all gave them the very best chance that they could have. Like we you know, like and that's where you kind of walk away like the call went really well, like we did a good job, like we didn't mess up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you did everything you could.
SPEAKER_03:Um we did everything we could. So um so yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and what I mean, how do you like you say you're not taught, you know, as paramedics to to handle that case necessarily, but even the aftermath, like you know, that once your job was done and you sort of you know said, okay, great, you know, they're in the hospital, like then what happens? Do you kind of just sh shut it off? You go get lunch. You get lunch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you go get lunch. I mean ri I mean, really, like, because in order to do the job, like that's what you have to be able to do. And um I just I mean, really, like I kind of liken it to like okay, I have a box in my head and you go on a horrible call like that, and you just put it in the box and you close the lid and you go get lunch, and then you just go on to the next call and you don't really you know think about it. And you you know, you say to yourself, like, oh wow, that sucked. But but you know, you you'd move on from it. And um and that's really what I did my whole entire career, and uh just kind of go on a bad call and put it in the box, and um you know, every once in a while something would affect you, but like for me, it just I thought it wasn't affecting me at all. I thought, you know, I was just it's just kind of like this is what I do and this is where I'm comfortable, and like give me bring on another one, like we're like let's go to the next one, let's go to the next one, let's go to the next one. And um and then uh and then you know, twenty-five years later, I had a fire, and uh we had so we got dispatched to a fire in the middle of the night, and um the first engine and the first truck go in and they knock the fire down, and they say um they do a primary search saying like that's when you look, do you do a quick search to see if there's any victims inside, and they say there's no victim. We we didn't find anybody, the primary search is clear, and um to kind of make a long story short, so then I uh m me and my crew are sent in to do a secondary search and do some other work in there because then we have to kind of clean up after the fire, make sure the fire hasn't gotten into the walls or gotten into the attic, and um because fire has a funny way of doing that, and then it can just go throughout the whole house, or like this was an apartment, this was a penthouse uh in an apartment building, and so um so you have to do a lot of work after the fire to make sure that the fire is like completely out. So, anyway, so we'd been sent up there, we kind of did our search, didn't find anything, and then um the way the apartment was set up, like if you the penthouse, so if you walk through the front door, you walk, you enter into a hallway, and if you look to your left, there's like you head to the living room, which is a pretty big living room, and if you look to the right, there's some bedrooms, a bathroom, and then the kitchen. And everything on the left was completely charred, like that's where the fire was, and um like there's nothing left. It had flash, there's absolutely like nothing left. Like there was a the coils, you know, and and a mattress that were was in that room. That what that's pretty much all that was left in that room. Everything had been consumed by the fire. And then if you look to your right, it was clean. There's uh like smoke damage and soot and that kind of stuff, but there was no the fire had not gotten over there. So anyway, so we we did our we did a quick search, didn't find anything, and then um I was on the charge side of the room, like trying to because that was my job, like, okay, how do we want to tackle this in terms of you know making it? And the fire is completely out by this point, is it? Fire's completely out, yeah, there's no fire at all. And it's clear, you can all the smoke is gone. We've we've you know blown all the smoke out and it's completely clear.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so um so anyway, so I was in this room and I I my turned my head and I was looking down the hallway and sure as shit I see two uh firefighters carrying a person and uh gets me right now. Um and I was overwhelmed with like I just screwed up like so bad because we were sent in to look for this guy and we didn't find him. And he was limp and he was ashen and he was obviously dead. Um but they you know they hustled him out and down the stairs and you know into the ambulance and uh he ended up dying. But it was really like that moment that I like I just feel like I made like the biggest mistake of my entire career and um and it was really it was after that fire and no no nobody said anything like I was never nobody said like oh you blew it you know it's like it you know not finding victims in fires like happens all the time just because of debris and like there's people like you'll like a lot of times like bodies are found in fire like way after the fire's out like during cleanup and mop up and you know firefighters will report like stepping over a body while they're looking for it. It just is so difficult to do. But in in my case I felt like I should have found found this guy because you know the the room was clean there was no fire burning um but the I mean you know like looking back is it was obvious that this guy was already dead there's nothing anybody could have done even the first in crew if they found him um you know I I don't think he would have had a chance of surviving.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so you weren't even the first crew to go and looking for them you were yeah so as a second.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah and the and the guys that found him they were pulling ceilings so we'll we'll pull the ceiling down to like and that's where one of the ways we look for extent fire extension into the attic. And so um they're pulling ceiling and they're basically they found it by accident and they were looking and they're like that that something under the table looks like doesn't look right and so they went and investigated and they they found it was a body. So it was like in that moment like there really like flipped a switch for me and um and the way I kind of like describe it is like you know I put all these bad calls in a box and I went to put this guy in that box and the there was no more room like that box had been full and so this was it was like the straw that broke the camel's back and um like it kind of like box pressurized and blew up all over everything. And then that that was after that um like I didn't notice anything for a little bit but my wife talks about how like I I wouldn't stop talking about that call like it was a constantly there for me like and that's really where I started um the struggle and I think it's it like all those c bad calls that I've been storing and some I shoved away some part of my brain all just came flooding out. And then in the next few ensuing months I s that's when my symptoms my PTSD started like I started having I started having nightmares um you know waking up screaming from calls you know like work calls uh dreams um I stopped sleeping like I would sleep very very little um I started having that like I said those intrusive thoughts that videotape of calls I hadn't thought about in in years in like 20 years would start w would just play in my head constantly it's kind of like being locked in a movie theater and they turn the volume up and the brightness up and you can't close your eyes and you can't plug your ears and you have to sit there and and hear it all the time. And you just come to you any time of the day you just might all the time yeah it just kinda yeah just go yeah and there's no way I didn't know how to shut them off. Um as angry I was super angry very irritable like had a really short fuse was blowing up up people like super irrational um started crying like I never cry like only when I get really really angry but I'd start like we have a really kind of innocuous call at work and I'd start crying. Well so I started having these symptoms and you know I didn't I felt so much shame about it like I didn't want anybody to know and so I I'm like okay I need to go see a therapist and like figure this out so I can just be done with it and get back to work. And uh yeah the therap that's when the therapist told me like oh you have PTSD and at first I was like yeah no I don't you know and part of that comes from like having feeling like I have to be like the strongest one in the room and I mean part of that's being a woman and never wanting to ever show any weakness and then a lot of it's just kind of was my nature of never ever wanting to show any weakness and wanting people to be know that they can depend on me and then they can count on me and um like oh my god nobody can know that I'm crying or feeling horrible and uh so you know I like I said I fought it for a little bit the fact that I had PTSD and then finally I'm like okay fine I have PTSD but let's just fix this so I can get back to work and get on with my life and my therapist is like yeah it doesn't work like that. Yeah so yeah it got it got really bad and a lot of it was because of the shame that I felt and not wanting to ask for help like you know first responders like we are the help and so we don't ask for help at all and you know a lot of that comes from our childhood too like we never we never asked for help when we were kids we had to solve all these problems by ourself yeah and that becomes like the kind of comfortable safe place for us so we we don't ask for help so you know even though I've seen a therapist like I've and that I mean that was asking for help but it was also like no I'm paying you and like teach me some tricks or whatever uh so I can you know get on with this and it wasn't really asking for help and you know I didn't tell anybody about it um except for obviously my wife and but these symptoms just continued to just get worse and worse and worse. And uh you know my therapist is saying like you you need to take some time off work and um I fought that for a long time and I finally took some time off work and you know like it was a couple weeks and I was feeling a little bit better and I'm like all right yeah I got this and so I went back to work and then I started on the way home from work I get off you know work a 48 hour shift I get off in the morning and then I start like get in my car pull out of the driveway and I'd just start sobbing like just out of nowhere like I had no control over it wasn't thinking about anything I just start sobbing and I'd cry all the way home and then um the way our schedule works we work two days on four days off and so as the four days went on um I you know I'd start to feel a little bit better and I'm like okay I got this I go back to work um because you know I always at that point in time I always thought the very worst thing that could ever happen to me was to me like to not be able to handle my job or do my job and uh so yeah so the shame was just extraordinary and then um I worked a shift uh I had to I had to pay back some trades um and so I had to work I worked a little extra I worked like almost four days in a row and I when I got off that morning I was like I'm not gonna cry like I'm gonna keep my shit together and you know not cry on the way home and so I did so I made it all the way home and I was like yeah I got this I sent my wife a text and I said I didn't cry on the way home like I'm good and I didn't get a response and uh I was gonna go play tennis and uh meet a friend and so you know I changed my clothes and I got in my car and I started driving across town and I wasn't like trying to like keep my composure or anything like that and that's that's when the world the whole world came crumbling down on me. Wow I was uh started sobbing uh so overwhelmed um I was like I can't do this anymore it's like just it's like the pain is just like extraordinarily it's just like your body feels horrible your brain feels horrible you just like and I I didn't know that there was any other answer out there and the only thing I could think to do to end it was to drive into a tree and kill myself. And uh so I became very suicidal at that moment. And so I started well I first started looking for a pole to drive into and then I'm like well poles are made to be hit and knocked over so like I gotta start looking for a tree and so um and I was even thinking like like even if I you know am severely injured and knocked you know put in a coma or whatever like that'll work too because I that way I won't have to go back to work and I won't have to tell anybody why like it it was like it was an out it was like the only way I could think of to get out of the the hole that I was in. So I started looking for a tree and then I started thinking well if you do this like the first responders that go on you like you're just gonna be adding another you know bad call into their box and um this the where I live I I know a lot of the firefighters and so um so I was just like you like you just you can't like you can't do this like just get yourself to this can tennis courts like just get yourself and so I like just did everything I could to get myself because I knew once I got there and I'm around people you know then it I'm not gonna do anything crazy. And uh I sent my wife a text and I said no matter how much I like beg and plead after my four day saying that I'm fine I go you can't let me go back to work. Yeah and uh yeah she sent me text back said yeah I already decided that and uh sorry I'm a little emotional um so anyway so that was you know I made it to the tennis courts and that was that was a moment where I'm like okay I I actually need to get help and so um so uh I called into work and I said like I I have to go off like I can't I just I just called and said I just I need some time off and uh you know put me off you know start burning like basically put me off on sick leave. Yeah and uh and so we have something called workers comp which is uh you know like uh you know like if it's insurance like if you get injured at work or whatever and so the battalion chief that I spoke with and you know he said is is like what is this for? Like can can I ask and I was super hesitant because I just didn't want anybody to know that you know what was wrong with me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And uh and then I remembered this battalion chief's sister uh was a paramedic back in the day and she had actually killed herself from PTSD. Oh my god so I was like okay well this guy's c we'll understand so I can tell him and so I told him and he's like okay and so he told me like you know how how to go off like I had no idea how to go off on workers comp or anything and so anyway so that's really where my but my journey began and uh so I went off work yeah I had every intention of going back and so I started you know I mean I was still going to therapy and then I started going to another therapist who does a treatment called um EMDR which is a way of reprogramming your brain you know working on these calls that were I call it like they are haunting me and so I started uh seeing her and um and I just wasn't getting any better I was just like getting worse like the the anger was worse the sleeping was worse the nightmares were worse and even though I was off work it just I was circling the drain and spiraling and then somebody told me about this retreat it's called the uh West Coast post-trauma retreat and it's a um it's a six day retreat for first responders with PTSD and at first I was like yeah I don't need that like I don't need some residential program like that's not me like I'm not crazy and then things are just getting so bad I was finally like alright I'll call them and I called them and I ended up going and that that was where my recovery started and it was 100% because I I spent time with my peers who were going through the same thing. So there were the way it works are six of us or six clients you know that were there to be treated and then there were like 15 peers and they're all cops and firefighters and paramedics dispatchers who had PTSD and had gone through the program and they were just there like to support us for the week. And then there are two clinicians and a chaplain and it's basically like six months of therapy compressed into the six days and you basically like you you share all your secrets with your peers and then you find out that they're all been struggling with the same thing. And you know here I thought you know like I was like we have 125 uniformed personnel in my department and I'm the only one that's going through this. So there is something so wrong with me. And then I go to this retreat and I find it it's like nope like so many of us are struggling and um being able to share your secrets and the things that I felt shame over and uh with my peers just like changed everything for me. And um and then like therapy started working and the EMDR started working and you know I still had some moments where I really struggled but um I mean it's been 10 years and I still have moments where I struggle but like it's it's uh it's like I know I can manage everything now and you know the that was really like what you know changed everything for me.
SPEAKER_00:Wow that's that's incredible and and and how many I mean that's the thing you're saying you had 125 unim uniform personnel in your department and you thought the only one realistically do you think each one of them to some degree is is experiencing it?
SPEAKER_03:So yeah so I went back to my department and um there's another guy that uh from my department I got a phone call from him one night and um I he won't care if I use his name uh I go hey Mark like what's going on and he's like yeah I'm not doing so well he's he so he you know he's like can you tell me a little bit about your experience and so I told him and he's like yeah he goes I think he goes I have that too he goes I carry a bullet around with me everywhere I go oh my god in case I need it you know for himself and uh so he ended up re having to leave uh because of PTSD and uh so he and I went back to our department and like shared our stories because I hadn't talked to really anybody because I didn't want anybody to know you know I was full of so much shame and so um so yeah I just like you know that morning I just left and nobody knew what happened. And so anyway so we shared our stories and after that like my phone was ringing with people who are struggling and it's amazing because that retreat that I go to like like I know there's so many people from my department that have gone to it and now they have a care you know we have finally have a peer counseling program and you know ways for people to get help you know while they're still working so it doesn't turn into full blown PTSD and but yeah I was not by any means the only person struggling. Like there are a lot of people like really really hurting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah absolutely I mean you talking about the way that that it comes on sometimes kind of because I did a documentary a couple of years ago about death and grief and and that kind of stuff and someone described to me you know that the feeling of grief is like you know um you have a box and inside the box is a button and the other thing inside the box is a ball that's constantly bouncing around you know and every once in a while it'll just hit the button. And when the grief is really fresh that box is really small and the bout the thing is constantly hitting the button. But like as it as as you get as you as as it cut time goes on and you heal the box becomes much bigger and you still have the button and the ball is still bouncing around but it doesn't hit the button so often you know um that's brilliant.
SPEAKER_03:I've never heard that before that's like super brilliant um is it is it similar to that? I mean that the whole grief component is huge too and that's such a oh my god that's the most brilliant thing I've heard. So I would say similar to that it's very similar to that the the button isn't as sensitive but it doesn't like I don't get I don't get triggered almost hardly at all anymore. Like very little triggers me. Every once in a while like a sound will catch me off guard and it'll like just kind of like a snap. It'll just my my nervous system will just like poof but then it's like it's gone.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's much it's like a spike.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah it's like a spike and then it goes away it doesn't like continue to ramp up and I don't have to like work on you know trying to uh de-escalate it or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00:Like it just kind of happens and that's just through practice and working on it and doing all the work and healing and um that it yeah it doesn't ramp up like it used to I guess the the sort of big sort of big picture question is that you know given you know your your experience at PTSD and and the job and the fact that you love this job and you couldn't imagine doing anything else like given the fact that you knew that PTSD was a risk with this job going back and doing it all again would you still do it you know uh as you have I I I would I absolutely would.
SPEAKER_03:It was it was a it was the best job uh for me like I can't really I can't imagine doing anything else. I can't uh I miss it so much. Like I really really miss it. Um yeah I would I would absolutely You know it's funny though with some of the physical is things that I I'm starting to struggle with now like my back and my shoulder and like that has almost been worse than the PTSD in terms of like would I do it all over again. But um but I uh without question absolutely without question.
SPEAKER_00:I mean for anyone listening obviously listening to this episode and and the experiences and they probably anyone interested being a first responder I think probably these days might have an awareness of PTSD but anyone listening to this and going I would love to be a first responder but I am you know afraid or I'm scared of the risks or whatever like what kind of message would you give to them and you know about doing this job um again I tell them it's the best job in the world if you know what I mean if that's the kind of thing that they like to do.
SPEAKER_03:And and it's it's really different now. You know at the time I had no idea what I was getting into and I think no matter how much you tell somebody about the job they have no idea what they're getting themselves into. I think it's like I mean I'm not a parent but you hear parents say this like they had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Even though they might have read every book and heard every story you don't really know until you're in it. But things have changed a lot like the culture has changed a lot like when I was a young firefighter and a young paramedic the culture was we don't talk about this stuff. Yeah like you don't you you just don't talk about it like you you know it's it was like the suck it up buttercup and you know you it was all about being strong and um you know withstanding everything and never asking for help and never um and never just saying hey I need a break like never like you just you push yourself to the you know the the end and um and that's really changed. It's the culture has really changed. Fortunately like there are things in place now to take you know way better care of us. You know when there's a bad call like it's all hands on deck now to like to deal with it to talk about it and get people the help that they need so it doesn't like plant itself in your brain somewhere and like wear on your nervous system you know without you even knowing about it until it blows up. And so so I I think things are a lot better.
SPEAKER_00:I I I love that analogy that that you had of like you know 50 70 years ago the equipment just the physical safety equipment you had was less advanced than what you had in your day and what they have you know now. And it's the same with with with mental health you know this sort of awareness and the approach the technology the science is always advancing and as it advances the risks become less to the the the firefighter, the first responder, whoever it might be Yeah 100% I mean just kind of getting into these sort of final thoughts you know part of part of the conversation I mean for someone who does a job like you and I'm sure you've spoken to many of your colleagues about this, I mean does it I've always kissed I haven't I I once thought about maybe when I was in a sort of career transition phase when I was in my early 20s I thought being a firefighter would be really cool, you know, kind of thing. I never went down that road but I wonder how it changes the way that you see the world you know does it change the way that you see the world you know in life and and how does how does that uh how does it change it?
SPEAKER_03:It really really does um I've learned how fragile life is how you know like like things can just change in an instant like how many calls I've been on where you know somebody just like ran out to go to the store to get some milk and didn't come home because they were you know hit by another car and they were killed. And just like how fast life can change and um and how precious life is and um and then also like the whole other side of humanity that's just ugly and just you know like the poor and you know like how they actually live like you know you hear you know news stories and it's like yeah but until you've been in these people's houses and you know seen like what they live in and what kids grew up in that's like yeah they have no chance you know really of making it just because of what they grew up in.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And um and they also learned there's a there's a lot of great things in the world. There's a lot of really strong like tough people out there and there's a lot of really good people out there. And um and so yeah you just you see I you see a whole other part of the world I really feel like first responders should be part of uh decision making on like how to tackle the homeless problem or violence or anything because like we are we have our hands in it every single day and like we we really see what's going on and the the politicians don't they have no they have no idea they've never been in these people's houses they've never been on the streets at two o'clock in the morning with a homeless people or a homeless person. You know what I mean they've never they've never been there and they they just they don't know.
SPEAKER_00:It's like you guys see raw humanity without a filter basically you see the absolute best and the absolute worst at the same time sometimes I can't even imagine. Yeah a hundred percent wow amazing um and I guess sort of just uh wrapping things up the the end of all these uh shows I love to just you know plug anything that you've got going on um so obviously just let us know you know you've got a podcast you've got a book what tell us uh tell us what people can tell us what being up to and people can find you uh well I'm on I'm on a Facebook really but I'm on Instagram uh uh Christy E.
SPEAKER_03:Warren and then also I have the firefighter deconstructed um I have a Substack I really like writing I'll I write a lot about um you know firefighting stuff uh recovering from PTSD stuff and then just other crap um so yeah I still like to write uh I have a podcast I haven't done an episode in a while but um on the podcast called the firefighter deconstructed I interview basically first responders who have gone through PTSD or whatever and kind of like just tell them just tell them their story and their journey and um yeah kind of like almost it's kind of like what we just did right here. And yeah and so um so yeah. Yeah and there's a book and so it's called uh Flashpoint um you can get it anywhere books are sold um it's basically like my story get my career getting PTSD getting better and a lot about what we talked about today but just kind of like even in a little bit further depth depth and a lot more um like a lot more calls that I've been on or in it just a little bit more in depth about my journey.
SPEAKER_00:And like I said at the top it it is really um it's it's really well written and you've really transported because I was kind of reading through it and then I just felt like so I just want more chapter, just one more chapter. It's really sort of um very uh you get really engrossed really quickly. So yeah congrats again on that.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00:No worries. Thank you. Christy thank you I mean thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and and and really I hope it's helpful to people um and it can sort of enlighten a little bit more behind the scenes of you know the good the bad and the ugly of uh of being a first responder and a firefighter and a paramedic so thank you so much again.
SPEAKER_03:Oh thank you so much for having me Chris it was a real honor to be on your show. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:No worries great we'll speak to you soon. Awesome and that's a wrap on this week's episode. A huge thanks to Christy for being so open and sharing her incredible journey. And of course a big thanks to you all for listening as well. If today's episode touched on difficult experiences you're dealing with or if you're struggling with PTSD or your own mental health please do not go through it alone. In the US you can dial or text 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline to talk to someone right away. If you're elsewhere in the world please check local hotlines and services in your area because reaching out can make all the difference. If you'd like to dive deeper into Christie's stories you can check out her episode page at noordinarymonday.com there you will find links and more info about the story. You'll also find extras across our socials we're on Instagram, LinkedIn Facebook and more now you won't want to miss next week's episode my guest is Terry Rich, a serial CEO and innovator who not only helped crack one of America's biggest lottery scams, but once saved a struggling zoo with some of the strangest ideas you'll ever hear from late night concerts with beer to selling line and tiger poop as deer repellent it's a wild mix of business savvy, bold creativity and scandalous true crime. Subscribe now so you don't miss out on that. If you've got a career story that you think would be great on the show we would love to hear from you. You can get in touch via our socials you can email hello at noordinary monday.com or you can use the Submit Your Story page on our website. And if you enjoyed this episode and want to help us continue the show please do two really quick and easy things for us. Leave a five star rating review and tell a family member or friends. That's it really easy this show is produced hosted and edited by me Chris Baron thanks so much for listening and have a great Monday everyone
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