No Ordinary Monday
The No Ordinary Monday podcast brings you the most incredible tales from people's working lives. Each week, we meet someone whose work is anything but ordinary - they may be clearing landmines, blowing up movie sets, or exploring uncharted caves.
We dive into the how, the why, and a life-defining moment they’ve experienced on the job. Whether it’s spine-tingling, hilarious, or just plain jaw-dropping, their stories will challenge what you thought a “career” could be—and maybe even change the way you think about your own.
No Ordinary Monday
From Drift to Direction (Career Coach)
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A backpack full of rushes, a late‑night detour, and a cab ride that felt like forever. That near‑disaster on a dog‑trick commercial wasn’t just a wild production tale for Ben Stein; it became a mirror for the life he was building and the future he actually wanted. We bring you inside the highs and hazards of production and advertising, from public‑access beginnings and the award‑winning Paperclips documentary to brand rules so strict they required a last‑minute Yorkie swap.
From there, Ben opens up about the deeper engine driving his choices: creativity as escape, growing up with a distant parent and a mum battling depression, and the numbing patterns that followed. He walks us through trying psychiatry and therapy, then finding coaching as a forward‑facing tool that changed behaviour, not just insight. You’ll hear how a three‑week sobriety experiment became a turning point, why he launched Purpose Up as a side project, and what pushed him to choose entrepreneurship after being laid off days after paternity leave.
We also get practical. Ben breaks down the real differences between coaching and therapy, shares honest guidance on psychedelics and safer trauma work like RIM, and lays out a clear plan for career change in a tough market: get fluent with AI, build a portable brand through a side hustle, and network like a human so you rise above the algorithmic noise. For aspiring coaches, he’s blunt about training, picking a niche, learning ethical sales, and giving yourself more runway than you think.
If you’re sitting in a “safe” job that no longer fits, this conversation offers both cautionary tales and a map. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review to help more curious listeners find No Ordinary Monday.
Links:
WEBSITE - https://www.purposeup.com/
BOOK - https://www.amazon.com/Purpose-Up-Break-Free-Matters/dp/B0FTW9PGNF
Socials:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/benstein/
https://www.instagram.com/purpose_up/
https://www.youtube.com/purposeup
https://www.facebook.com/coachbenstein/
https://x.com/iambenstein
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This is like my first big shoot that I'm producing by myself. So my boss calls me up when I'm leaving. Um, you know, I'm I've got the tapes with me. He's like, uh, hey, let's let's celebrate the big day going well.
SPEAKER_01:For Ben Stein, what started out as a successful day on set almost ended in disaster.
SPEAKER_00:And so he's like, let's go to the strip club. So I got my backpack with me, head off to the strip club and enjoy the scenery, have a fun time with my boss, have a few drinks. Then it was you know pretty late, time to go home. So I head in the cab home, you know, probably about halfway home. I'm like, oh my god, where is the backpack with all of the day's footage in it?
SPEAKER_01:Working in the film industry myself, it's one of those horror stories that you never want to hear.
SPEAKER_00:Tens of thousands invested into the shoot planning. I'm like, oh dear god, it's at the strip club. I tell the calf to like turn back around and I'm I'm sweating. I'm like, oh my god, my career is gonna be over. Definitely feeling sick to my stomach playing all those scenarios of of what could have uh what could have gone wrong.
SPEAKER_01:Hey folks, welcome back to another episode of No Ordinary Monday. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm your host, Chris Barron, and each week I invite a guest onto the show to walk us through the most extraordinary experience that they've ever had on the job. We start with the path that led them there, we explore what it's really like behind the scenes, and at the end they reveal the hard-earned lessons that they've acquired along the way. Now, before we dive in, just a very quick note if you've got questions about this episode or ideas for future guests or stories that you'd love to hear on the show, you can always reach me at hello at noordinarymonday.com. I do read and respond to all your messages. Alright, my guest today is Ben Stein. Now, Ben began his career in television and commercial production, working across things like animation and interactive media and advertising in New York. But over time and through a series of pivotal moments, some of which were funny and some painful and some genuinely career-defining, it pushed him to question whether the path he was following was really serving him best. Now, today Ben is a career and leadership coach, helping people to navigate these kind of major transitions, redefining success, and find work that actually matters to them. In this episode, we talk about the night that Ben nearly lost an entire shoot, an almost a career, because of one forgotten backpack. We also explore creativity as a form of escape, the hidden cost of numbing and burning out, and what it really takes to walk away from a version of success that you've outgrown. You're listening to No Ordinary Mundane? Let's get into the show. Ben, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today, man? I'm doing well, Chris. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. No worries. Where where in the world are you at the moment?
SPEAKER_00:I am in my home office in Miami, Florida.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, nice. What is uh November? So it's pretty nice down in Florida this time of year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is the this is the time of year we we wait for, we we endure the brutal heat to to get the the the perfect amount of heat uh this time of year.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Well listen, I'm I'm really uh glad I get you on the podcast because um you know I saw your your profile, like you know, we share a lot of like you know, in our early parts of our career, um, we share a lot of overlap. Um and what I really find fascinating about people in production um is that there's always a fascinating, everyone has a fascinating entry point, and they're so diverse. Everyone enters this career from different points, and everybody exits the career at different points as well. So it's kind of like this type of career where you just have any, you know, people from all walks of life. I you know, I work with cameramen who were like factory workers, and I worked with directors who used to be like teachers at some point. But I just wondered your experience, uh I know it's a uh many years ago now, but in production, did you have the same sort of um experience with all the different weird and wonderful people in the in that uh career?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it's uh I I always loved making stuff, and I remember just r rewinding back to my childhood. I don't know if they had this um when you were a kid, but it was like the first kid's camera and TV setup. It was called the the PXL 2000, and I remember getting that for like the holidays, and I that's kind of where I started my video making career. And I even went to a camp one summer where um you know you did sports half the day and you could sign up. It was it was a computer camp, but you could also sign up for a video camp. And so I learned um you know editing before it was it was digital when you were still kind of cutting from tape to tape.
SPEAKER_02:That's badass, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it was uh so so I I remember you know making you know my my first commercial for the camp back in the day in our first early movies. So I I just fell in love with the process, and it was funny because I didn't really think about that as a potential job until college. And um, I went to Tufts University up in Boston, and they had this um this thing called the experimental college, where they had just had all these weird classes. So I remember I took a class on on hand drumming, and another one was uh a class on television, and so they had like a very serious film class that that was like really hard, and I was like, well, I don't care about film, I just want to make TV. And so this this uh guy who who made TV in the area taught it, and I was like, wow, you can you can really do this as a living. Um, you know, most people were trying to think about being lawyers or engineers, etc. Yeah. Um this this sounds like fun, and I remember joining the TV station in college and also making my own uh uh sock puppet sitcom for adults that was quite inappropriate. Um, and that that aired on public access and like to like sit in a living room with my friends, watch that show come on and and make people laugh. Like that was that was magic, and that's kind of when I was uh when I was hooked from the beginning.
SPEAKER_01:And this made it onto like as you said, public access television.
SPEAKER_00:You must have been like public public access after dark, you know. I don't think they showed it during your prime children viewing hours.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. Amazing. I mean that's that's a press a that's a pretty good like claim to fame. Like as a young age, like yeah, I made something and it went on television.
SPEAKER_00:But um Yeah, it was it was fun. And and what I was also studying at the time was was children's media. So I was interested in in children's television because I thought, you know, hey, if I go into television, maybe I can give back by trying to um educate kids, and and you know, we can we can fast forward to a time where I was actually producing a preschool series later in my career, and I wanted to shoot myself in the head because it was like so boring to produce, but we can uh we can we can come back to that later.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Well, as you said, like you know, your career has taken, you know, because I we're I'm focusing on the production stuff because you know I think production is a fascinating world, but your career has sort of taken so many amazing twists and turns, and and especially later on, uh which we'll come back to uh you know absolutely, but I want to start right back at the beginning, you know, because I like for a lot of uh guests I have on, um I love to to dive into their origin story, you know. Like, did you know when you were you know six, seven years old, did you have any idea what you wanted to be when when you grew up?
SPEAKER_00:I I did not know. I know I enjoyed being uh creative, I loved drawing, um, I loved creating things with Legos, but no, I didn't have I was you know kind of a quiet kid, artistic, sensitive, wasn't like a big athlete or anything like that. So I was I I knew I wasn't going to be a professional athlete. Um so yeah, for for me, just having some fun being creative was was where I found flow. And um so I I never really worried too much about what I wanted to be when I grew up. I was just like, oh, I'll figure that out later. Um but you know, I I learned animation and and again fell in love with this this digital process of of taking things from idea into creation. So, you know, fast forward into college, like I studied psychology and I was into that, but I minored in communications um because that was more fun to me. Um and I I was like, if I'm gonna do this TV thing, I gotta do some internship. So in college, I interned for a kid show called Arthur, which is an animated kid show that is on like PBS here.
SPEAKER_01:It's pretty pretty popular, actually, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and so uh my my claim to fame there was was being the voice of Arthur on the newsletter and also going through the Arthur poetry submissions that that kids would submit online. And that the what brought me the most joy was just kids using their potty mouths um for for whatever they submitted for the poetry. Um so that was that was fun, and and pretending to be Arthur via the newsletter was fun. Uh and I also interned at the local news station in the graphics department, uh, where they were, I forget the names of the machines that they were using to generate graphics. Um, but I never met a more jaded group of individuals be like, oh, another shooting, and then they like pull up like the blood splatter or like put put that in and like the the crime tape and get that done in about two minutes to get it ready for the news. And I was like, this is cool, not not what I'm into.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but it's sort of like sausage, sausage factory, just like you know, there's no creative input.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was uh there was no um, I mean, there there were there was like creativity, and if you're a graphic designer, it was fun, but it was also like being surrounded by you know what bleeds that leads all day um didn't didn't really appeal to me. So, but but for anyone that that's in production, at least as as far as the US goes, you know, internships, if you can afford to do them, um, which I was in a position to do them being unpaid, doing work during college, um, they definitely did give me a leg up uh uh in terms of of competition. And after I graduated school, I moved back to Washington, DC, where my parents were. Um and you know, I didn't I didn't really fully go after the TV dream. I think if I did, I would have moved to LA, which which some of my um college friends did, and and they became kind of successful working in the the studio realm. Um so I I ended up just trying to get like regular jobs and and failing at that. And then, you know, my my family members talked to me about networking, and I was like, no, I want to get a job in my own right. Um but I eventually my uncle's neighbor worked at a documentary production company, and um and uh I ended up interning for them, and we ended up working on uh and then I ended up working for them part-time and ended up working on an amazing documentary called Paperclips. And that was a story about rural uh rural children from Whitwell, Tennessee, close to where the KKK was founded, who started a Holocaust memorial project collecting a paperclip for everyone who was killed in the Holocaust. And it was a story about these children becoming teachers because they learned so much in the process and they solicited paper clips from all over the world to collect them, and they collected over 11 million paperclips for the number of people that were killed in the Holocaust, and uh eventually secured an authentic Nazi rail car to house them as a memorial that then brought other students by there. And so it was this amazing story about you know where racism was rampant and the story of tolerance and teaching, etc., um, you know, that's still unfortunately very relevant today. Um and you know, I got to be a production assistant on that, I got to be an editor's assistant on that. Uh and it was an amazing experience. And like when you talk about personalities, people that had been in the industry forever, like the remember the sound guy Sully was there, um, and he's like, You gotta take naps in between sessions so you can go for a 20-hour day. So he would just like sit there and smooth, snooze when there wasn't downtime. Like, what are you doing, old man? But he was great. Um, and um it was great.
SPEAKER_01:I found crews the the one skill that all crew members I've ever worked with share is that they can sleep anywhere. It doesn't matter if you're like in the back of like a rickety old like Russian aircraft that could like lose power any moment, they'll just like everyone else is freaking out and they're just like fast asleep. It's the most amazing skill. Um, but yeah, if you can't just say 20-hour days, you have no choice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I didn't stay in the hardcore production game long enough to develop that skill, and I'll kind of like share the story once I realized it wasn't for me. So I got this other gig where I was an uh associate producer for a show on ESPN2 called Sporting Dog Chronicles. It's all about hunting dogs, and I wasn't I wasn't cut out for it as a production assistant in the field. I mean, first of all, I was more of an office production assistant, um, and I hadn't been properly trained, but the it was it was a husband-wife team that were leading the charge, and like the the wife had hired me and I was doing some stuff with her in the office, but they brought me in the field, and I wasn't particularly useful because I didn't have enough training and um didn't have the best like go-getter attitude. Like I just didn't realize. And at some point, there was we were doing a feature on German short-haired pointers, and they're they're these amazing hunting dogs. We were out in Arkansas, maybe, and I remember my boss said, Hey, take those puppies and and run them around, so tire them out so they don't bark during the set. And I was like, I was like, This is what I went to college for. And I remember at the time, you know, I was wearing like these big baggy jeans um that were in style at the time, and like one of my hands is holding the leash running, the other hand is holding my pants up because they were falling down, and I'm running them around, like questioning all of my choices in life, and then I'll turn around and just all of them are like sitting there watching, like laughing at me, having some fun with it. And I was just like, I don't think this is for me. Well, this is for me.
SPEAKER_01:You find yourself in the weirdest and most wonderful places sometimes in production. Yeah, I I remember I uh my I was a I was a research at the time at the BBC, and I think we were doing a a segment about like the microbiome. I was doing a science show at the time, doing a segment about microbiome, which is like you know, your guts and and all that kind of stuff. And uh so we we were like, okay, next week we're gonna have a studio session, uh, the host is gonna be there, uh, it's gonna take a week to get like the results from this microbiome analysis. Long story short, I had to and the lab that does all the analysis was in Ireland. I was in London, and the host was in Boston at that time. So I had to figure out a way of getting his essentially his fecal sample from a hotel that he was in the middle of shooting in Boston in some kind of like FedEx thing and and off off to the lab and thing. I was like, I you know, and all the sort of biological you know laws and stuff that you have to get. And I was like, and at some point you're right, you pinch yourself, and it's like I'm trying to figure out how to get my presenters poop across the world for TV. It is it is a strange job sometimes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Um so um on the show, we love guests to kind of come on and uh share sort of their no ordinary Monday story, which is sort of a a main story of their career um that sort of stands out as a significant you know moment or learning opportunity or experience. Um what what sort of comes to mind for you?
SPEAKER_00:It's a great question, and I and I love the I love the framing. I don't know if this was the the best learning experience for me, but one story that's hilarious that stands out for me was when fast forward I I worked um at that uh both of those production jobs and then I moved to New York City. And um some since uh on the ground production wasn't for me, I ended up moving to a commercial production company. So we did animation and interactive, and this is when interactive was really taking off. And um, well, this is probably around 2005, 2006, and um we there's this popular website called um subservient chicken, and it was a Burger King promotion, and essentially it was like a person in a chicken costume, and you could type in commands and the and the chicken would do it. And the the illusion of it was that it seemed in real time, um, and that was like the magic of it that, like, wow, this chicken actually does what you command. This is magic, and you know, people hadn't seen it before. Um, so we did a takeoff on that called I Do Dog Tricks, where a dog would do anything that you would type in for it. So I was the producer, and um, we worked with a client, Heart Guard, that made dog care products like fleet collars, stuff like that. And we end up, this is like my first big shoot that I'm producing by myself. We've got professional dog carriers, we've got a director on set, and the clients are on set, and nobody else from my company. So I'm I'm representing the company. So the first thing that we realize once everyone's on set and we're getting ready to shoot is they're like the dog that we had carefully pre-selected, they're like, that dog has a penis. We can't have any dog penis in our branding. It's a rule. We're like, okay, what are we gonna do? This is like, oh no, like the day's ruined. Um so we were like, okay, well, let's let's look at the backup dog. Unfortunately, the backup dog did not have a penis, it was a female. So we were able to roll with the the backup dog. Uh little Yorkie named Chili, very, very talented little dog. Uh, and she could probably do like 20 different tricks, like roll over, speak, uh, play dead, um, anything that you can kind of like jump off the couch, jump on the couch, anything you could imagine the dog doing. And so the shoot went well, and it was it was a great success. So uh phew. So then my boss calls me up when I'm leaving. Um, you know, I'm I've got the tapes with me. He's like, uh, hey, let's let's celebrate the big day going well. And so he's like, let's go to the strip club. So I got my backpack with me, head off to the strip club.
SPEAKER_01:And were you but were you even surprised at this point? Like, oh, strip club, or were you like, meh? I guess this is just how we roll.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I had not been out with my boss at a strip club before. I mean, he was he was you know in his mid to late twenties. Um, so wow. This was this was in my um, you know, and I was in my mid-20s at the time. So I was like, you know, why not? I mean, this was a special occasion, you know, quality time with the boss, it's on him, why not? Um and and at that point I was I was no stranger to to drinking hard. Um in fact, the the I think that was the appeal of New York City and advertising was A, you didn't have to drive anywhere, and B, um there was alcohol everywhere in the advertising industry. So party anywhere, yeah. City that never sleeps. Uh yes. So, anyways, uh end up going to a strip club, enjoy the scenery, have a fun time with my boss, have a few drinks. Then it was you know pretty late, time to go home. So I I head in the cab home. Um, and then you know, probably about halfway home, I'm like, oh my god, where is the backpack with all of the day's footage in it? Like tens of thousands invested into this shoot planning. Yep. I'm like, oh dear god, it's at the strip club. So I call my boss and he's not picking up. I'm like, uh, is he getting a lap dance? Has he gone to bed? Like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, so you left him there.
SPEAKER_00:You were like, I'm I'm yeah, he I left him solo. I was like, I I had enough, like yeah, um, and uh so I I I tell the cab to like turn back around and I'm I'm sweating. I'm like, oh my god, my career is gonna be over. Um, and then I get back in, I explained to them I was just here, I misplaced the backpack, go in, I look for it, and like there it is, just sitting there, and I'm like, oh my god. Oh my god. And so end up clutching it all the way home, thanking whatever universe God I believe in.
SPEAKER_01:That um I I mean I cannot even like I I know, I mean, I don't know if you don't use the term rushes or like footage or rushes, you know, in in the sort of like same thing, but I think the only thing more valuable than the footage is the sort of health and safety, the cast and crew. Everything else is just yeah. And I I heard so many stories of like the the rushes being held hostage because like some producer has not been paid. Like the it is absolutely and I've also heard nightmare stories of like people losing footage, you know, um of like international shoots where some event has gone off and you cannot repeat it. And you're right, it's just it's like career ending levels of like so you must I can imagine like the the the Deep level of like nausea you're feeling like when you like turn the taxi round, and that's probably the longest drive of your entire life.
SPEAKER_00:I was I was sweating, definitely feeling sick to my stomach, playing all those scenarios of of what could have uh what could have gone wrong. And um yeah, I'm gonna buy the the strip club. Uh yeah, yeah. I told him afterwards. Um I think I think he was like still there, probably not far from the footage, but I don't think the footage was on his mind at that point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh my god, that is crazy. Um, you know, I there's this thing that I love about artists and people who creative from an early age. You know, there's something that draws people to art. And sometimes that's whether they're trying to either understand the world or they're trying to escape the world. Do either of those two things resonate with you as someone who's creative from an early age?
SPEAKER_00:I think more the escape side of the equation. And I do I come by it honestly, in terms of my mom's side of the family has some some artistic streaks in them with a grandfather that was a musician, an uncle who was an artist, an art professor, um, an older sister who who practiced art. So art was kind of always in my family. Um, and for me, I really enjoyed painting and specifically cartooning. Like for me, it was just like a fun, light way. Uh, and and from my origin, like on the outside, everything kind of looked great, had two older sisters, a um dad that was a doctor and a mom that stayed at home. The kind of darker side of that was uh it was like a workaholic dad who really wasn't around much, and even though he was a psychiatrist, wasn't emotionally present, and my mom suffered with depression. So both of those, um, while not, you know, I don't want to like compare my stuff to other people's stuff, was tough for me as a sensitive third kid dealing with all of those dynamics. And so for me, finding ways of escaping, including being creative, drawing, um, and and having that lighten up the things around me, um, and then being able to show that and and provide joy to other people, um, I really like that. And then also the the other part of my story where you know I started to to numb at an early age with food was my first numbing device. And then when I was old enough, like 14, 15, uh marijuana, alcohol, those kind of became my crutches to kind of escape uh the pain of of the reality that I was in.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. You mean the reality of just your your parents and dealing with that sort of environment, home environment, essentially, as a as a younger, younger person.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, it's funny. My dad describes their parenting philosophy as uh benign neglect, which I think is is an actual psychiatric term. Where it's like, yeah, we'll just leave them on their own devices to uh to figure things out. So frankly, I mean, you know, and I was kind of like that that um generation X that uh I wasn't like a latchkey kid because my mom was home, but she was more like probably in bed and doing stuff rather than um you know working. But yeah, I was left left to my own devices a lot, so watched a lot of TV as well. So that was part of my inspiration. Um, but yeah, the the dynamics of that um was was tough on me. So, you know, and I also like my mom was was pretty heavily medicated, and so I think there was this like model of if you are in pain, heavily medicate. And so I think I kind of took that under um my own uh prescriptions and what was available to me as a teenager, and so you know it it felt good to numb out, and I was also pretty lonely, so kind of falling in with the crew that was doing these things, becoming a cool kid after being a dork with like glasses and geeky clothes. I like for my seventh to eighth grade summer, I was like, okay, I'm gonna become cool now. Went to like the cool store in Georgetown called Smash, and I got my band t-shirts, I got my cool spiked ring, and tried my very best to be badass. Um, and yeah, and then everything that went along with that. But with that kind of came this like acceptance into this group and everything that went with it, and that was also for me a sense of like opening up my horizons adventure and um you know, uh still friends that I'm very close with to this day.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, interesting. Um so I mean your TV career, as I said, was um, you know, eventful. Um, you know, had lots of uh weird and wonderful things that happened, and then you you eventually left television. Um what I mean that that was your first big career shift or transition in in a sense, and what triggered that? Was it sort of just as I said, you that it wasn't floating your boat? Because it seemed like you were sort of still trying, even in television, you were working your way through it and you kind of evolved from say doing some you know children's TV stuff, animation, you know, then went into like more the commercial side of things. I mean, you then you kind of found your way out of it eventually, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So um ultimately I found coaching in my late 20s. I tried to handle kind of hitting my own personal rock bottoms on my own. And it was never anything like too dramatic. Although I do remember when I was in my mid-20s, just share a sad story, I was trying to win back my college girlfriend. She was my first love, and we had like broken up, and then um, you know, she was in medical school, and then we were thinking about getting back together, and I'm like, yep, I'm a I'm a changed guy. And then I remember having her sleep over one night, and it's like I had to smoke pot to go to bed, and I knew that that was an issue in our first relationship, and I was just like addicted psychologically at that point, and then I ended up like breaking down crying in front of her because I was so like disappointed with myself, and it was like this sad cry for help. So ultimately, um, I realized I needed to get help. Uh that wasn't that point, but that was one of those low bumps on the road. So I actually started with psychiatry because I thought that was a gold standard for my dad. And 15 minutes in, I was like ready to bear my soul after waiting a couple years to get help. And the guy's like, What do you want? Basically, it was like a glorified pill pusher, um, which I didn't realize like many psychiatrists are. Um and that was kind of a gut punch, but I I tried antidepressants, made me more numb, wasn't the thing for me. Then I went into therapy, and therapy was was good to get things off my chest, kind of like it was very cathartic. And um, but I noticed it wasn't changing my behavior. And then I found myself a few months in being like, What's wrong with me this week? That seemed counterproductive. Then I ultimately found coaching as a client, and it was it was transformational for me. And I was like avoiding going like the AA route because I'm like, I'm not that type of alcoholic. And whether I was or not, um beside the point, I was resistant to it. But coaching gave me a container to challenge the behaviors that weren't serving me, and ultimately my coach challenged me to do a three-week no weed, no alcohol experiment with some consequences if I did that. And I was, you know, late 20s, bachelor in New York City. I'm like, how can I date and how can I have fun with my friends if I'm not going out drinking? Um, but ultimately that three months turned into a year plus and helped me change my relationships to substances. Um and you know, currently I don't do any alcohol, and I'm actually a proponent of plant medicine and um I'm a psilocybin fan. Um, but we can talk about that. Um, all of that to say was coaching was transformational for me to let go of stuff from the past and change my behaviors, and that turned into a side hustle where that client work turned into a side hustle apprenticeship. So in 2016, I started the Purpose Up podcast to interview people living purpose-led lives. So I was trying to figure out like what is my purpose? And I also started coaching as a side hustle and used the purpose up banner. And I had the most success helping people with career transitions. I was trained kind of as a life coach with everything, but the career transitions were was I was able to leverage that background. And in that time, I was also transitioning in my day career from the advertising world to a dot-com world and product management. Um, so I did that for about four years. And then in 2018, um, I had my first kid, and some of my coworkers were restructured before my paternity leave, and I thought I was safe. Got back from paternity leave, and then the CEO calls me into his office, and he's like, well, you're you're let go. Uh and this was like my second day back from paternity leave. I was like, Well, thanks for paternity leave, but this might have been nice to know a few months ago.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and you know, it's it's one of those times where like time slows down, you're like, oh shit, and you kind of like have those out-of-body experiences. And I was working in the Woolworth Building in New York at the time, and I actually had an apartment that was like three blocks away. Um, so part of my side hustle, I would like leave during lunch to work on my side hustle. But I got a call as I'm like leaving the Warwol Woolworth Building lobby with my stuff in my hands from a coach whose program I had signed up for, and he's like, Oh, you're in. And it was this like coach accelerator thing. And it was this like sign from the universe, like, let's go for it. And I had to make this decision with a new mouth to feed, living in New York City. Like, are you gonna play it safe with another tech job, or are you gonna go for this dream that you've been working on on the side? And ultimately, I was like, I'm gonna regret this if I don't do this. If I don't do this now, I'm not gonna do it. And I want to live by example for my son. So that's that's ultimately when I took the plunge um to to go for it. And and what's crazy in retrospect is like that might have been the safer route looking at like the bloodbath and the tech scene, right? Yeah, in terms of investing in myself, learning the skill sets of becoming an entrepreneur. Um, I could have never predicted that. And I'm not that strategic of a mind, but um, it's it's been an interesting journey.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, what I mean, again, I don't know a huge amount about coaching or therapy, but from my limited knowledge, there's a lot of overlap. So, I mean, what is the difference between you know someone you'd call a therapist and someone who would be like a coach?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's a great question. And therapy is very well regulated, coaching is not. Therapy is generally backward facing, coaching is primarily forward facing. Um therapy, there's there's very distinct tools and schools of it. Coaching, you can have a much more diverse um approach to it. Um and ultimately, so for example, like if you take someone that's suffering with depression, coaching is not gonna be generally very useful for them because you need someone with a different set of skills, right? So when I'm screening out folks, if they're dealing with depression, I don't have that training to deal with that. And like pushing them harder is not gonna help them get out of bed. Um, so that's that's when you need a trained professional with something like that. With someone who's motivated, who needs help finding what their next career is, or helping them with interview skills, selling themselves, etc., a therapist is not gonna be that as helpful as a coach that helps people do that on a day in and day out basis. So and there's like lots of different coaches for specific niches, et cetera. Um, but those are some of the main uh differences.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, interesting. And you'd mentioned psilocybin earlier. And um, you know, I guess for a lot of people, magic mushrooms, psilocybin, if you don't know, it's you know a uh um hallucinogen. Um it's a psychedelic drug. And you know, uh what I find because I I did a documentary a number of years ago where psilocybin was used as a really um powerful way to help people with sort of manic depression. I mean, you mentioned it you're a big proponent of it. How would you recommend it? I mean, how do you whether you use it yourself or if you're a proponent of it, like where do you find it useful?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So uh uh framing all of that up, one of the things that I'm passionate about is helping people transform and reduce their suffering. Because I spent so much time suffering and I realized things along the way that helped me reduce suffering a lot. And so I've been on the quest about like what are the best modalities to help quickly transform people. Um, and since I'm no, you know, I consider myself a psycho, not someone that likes to experiment with psychedelics. But in an um environment where you can have ceremony, so there's different countries you can go to where it is legal, and it's okay to do that, um, especially under supervision where people are looking after you as opposed to a kid doing it recreationally, there's there's an element of danger there. Um, and I've you know seen dangerous things happen. Um that that's number one. Number two, uh, as far as microdosing goes, I think um taking small amounts of it are great for anxiety and presence. Um, and that's something that that um I enjoy. Um and and I think can be incredibly beneficial for for people that deal with anxiety and um other other challenges. Um but I've also done ayahuasca, um, and and I think there's a lot of um wisdom and healing to be done with these plants in the right settings, and uh they can kind of help create that neuroplasticity to make some big shifts to let go of trauma, reframe it, and um allow people to move forward lighter and more free. And one more aside, there's a modality that I studied and that I refer my clients to. It's called RIM, regenerating images and memory. And um they're they're studying it. There's no um psychedelics involved with it, but they're studying it at University of Colorado, and some of the same centers of the brain that are lit up in psychedelic experiences are lit up in this kind of deep dive emotional journey that creates that same neuroplasticity, helps kind of reframe these past traumas so you can like move forward lighter and um release stuck energy, which is important in the healing process.
SPEAKER_01:It it's fascinating because I mentioned that documentary earlier that we did. I can't remember if it was John Hopkins or something like that. You know, a major, you know, um uh scientific institution was doing a big psilocybin trial, and we were filming with a number of participants who took place and you know, double blind trials and all that kind of stuff. And these patients were um, you know, real severe depressive, you know, manic depressive kind of thing. And uh their their accounts are I took one it was like with one or two sessions, and this was years after, and they were f they were fine, you know, after two you know medi you know medicated sessions of Silas Liban guided under you know um very strict um controlled environment with a you know I can't whether uh they have a guide or you know some sort of person to walk them through the experience. Um and uh it was phenomenal um what what we saw in the people that we interviewed. So it's kind of one of those things it's like it is a powerful tool, but used has to be used in the right hands, I think. I mean it's interesting, like you know, we your dad being a psychiatrist. I'm curious what his thoughts are on um this kind of psychedelic therapy.
SPEAKER_00:So my dad is is relatively old and old school. Today is actually his his 85th birthday today. Oh wow. Um he actually just retired. So he's oh my god, yeah. I mean he he he was on a long slope trajectory, but yeah, he said goodbye to his last patients last week. Um congrats. I think it's kept him kept him going. Um but uh he I think he's a little bit like less interested and um more into traditional therapies. Um because I think he he'd just kind of say, like, I don't know that much about that stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Interesting. Um I'm I'm curious, with someone like yourself who's so um you know knowledgeable, clued up, you know, all your clients are in that career space, and careers from all over. You know, I'm guessing you work with a bunch of different industries, you know, it doesn't really matter where people come from necessarily. But I mean it's it's a sort of it's a tricky time at the moment, I guess, in in career land, you know. I guess there's not there's a lot of reports, there's not a lot of jobs out there, um, economy's not looking amazing, all that kind of stuff. And for people listening who might be in a boat of like, I'm not particular basically your prime clients, you know, that'd be like I'm not particularly happy in where I am, I want to make a shift, I don't know how, I don't know if I can. I mean, what advice would you have them in this particular kind of situation where they're in a job, it's safe, they're not happy, but to take the leap in a particular economy at the moment where there's challenges, how do you weigh up the risk and reward in that scenario?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a good question. And at least in the US here, like there's a lot of folks that are like holding on dear life for their jobs rather than feeling like they've got the freedom to explore because there's so much competition out there. Uh, and there is. So um it's uh it's a balancing act. I think the first thing that I'd say is like from zooming out from a macro perspective, is that the revolution that AI is gonna bring is something that like we can't even like fathom right now. So if you imagine, you know, a um parabolic trajectory, right? We can only kind of like see it looking back. We can't really see it looking forward, but if we turn around, like our nose is up against this, this pair, and so we can't really conceive about how this is gonna change things. Yeah. So with that being said, like from a philosophical perspective, learning these tools and becoming as kind of AI fluent as possible, I think, is is a really safe bet because people are gonna be more and more attracted to candidates who are AI augmented that can really do the work of a couple people using AI tools and being well versed in that and comfortable with that. Because unfortunately, at least in like late-stage capitalism in the US, until we change our priorities about profits, it is gonna continue to be how can we do more with less? And AI is gonna help us do that. So I think the more that we can learn AI and the more that you can think about okay, how can I do more with AI tools, it's important. So that's number one. Number two, think about those skills that you want to build for your own personal brand. So if you are laid off, what are you gonna do? So, for example, like podcasting for me was about learning those production skills, learning those interviewing skills, connecting with people. And when I did coaching, learning sales, like I had a story that I'm not the entrepreneurial type and that I'm not great at sales. However, in getting coaching myself and understanding like a growth mindset that I can do anything I put my mind to, and it's okay to suck at first and just get better at it. That's that's kind of key to recognize your own stories about where you're stuck and know that if you do want something, you can go for it. You just have to learn the skills and give yourself time and the runway to do that. So I think a side hustle is great for that. And if there is a position that you want, you have to connect with people because in the AI age, so many people are applying. And to break through the noise, you need to actually connect with people, be more human, so you're at the top of people's list that they want to work with. So those are those are kind of like kind of like three key things I would think about is how do I become more AI enabled? Um, what skills do I want to develop to be better even if I am laid off? And then how can I connect with more people in order to be at top of mind?
SPEAKER_01:100%. And and anyone listening that's kind of listened to your story and going, hmm, I kind of think a coach could be kind of a cool job. But what advice, I mean, what does it take to be a coach in the first place? And any advice for people that kind of want to follow in your footsteps?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So it's a great question. I I think number one, I do an inventory of what am I already really good at that I can help other people with. So I trained for a couple years with a coaching program and I got some supervision. And I think anything you want to do seriously, you want to get good training in so that you're not just like putting up a shingle, I'm a coach, because a lot of people are doing that these days. And um, it is like a way to make money online, but there's a lot of folks out there that aren't particularly good at what they're doing, so it's it's tough to discern what's real from what's not. But with that being said, it's there, there's the things that you need to do. I need to gain the delivery skills with coaching. So figuring out what your what your niche is, because if you're just saying I'm a coach, you want to solve somebody's specific problem, ideally. Like what are they, what's their bleeding neck problem? Two is Get coaching yourself from a business perspective on how to do marketing and sales. So if I didn't learn how to run a sales call and I didn't learn how to understand what a marketing funnel is, I wouldn't be able to sustain myself. And if you're going to do that, you need to A have some cash runway and B, it's going to take longer than you think. So I do recommend it as a side hustle because it is going to take longer than you think to get the traction and get the money in to replace a six-figure income. And then also just connect with other folks that have done it and get their advice and follow in their footsteps. Because you know, success leaves clues. And if you can follow patterns of other successful people, you can follow in their steps.
SPEAKER_01:And to bring it full circle, I mean, with your production career and what followed from that, like I'm guessing coaching is probably not something you can just leave school or university and go straight to be you've got to almost bring your own life experience, your own career experience to a job like that. Would you say that that's kind of an important aspect of it?
SPEAKER_00:It's a good question. And what I would say is number one, my my life experience has definitely helped me. So whether under like understanding the power of brand for advertising and helping my clients with that, understand how to manage projects and technology from being a producer and a project manager, and also just understanding interviewing and resumes from being on the hiring side of it and trying to get a job. So all that I've been able to leverage and is important having that life experience. With that being said, I think the important thing is to be a good coach, you just need to be a couple steps ahead of the people that you're serving. So if you are a really fit 23-year-old and you're trying to help 18-year-olds get ripped, you could do that. So it just depends like who are you a couple steps ahead of that you can show them the way.
SPEAKER_01:But if you're a 23-year-old trying to advise a 47-year-old, you know, senior level director VP type, then probably that's not going to be your client base, presumably.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. Conversely, I've got a coach that's 30, that's you know, built a couple million dollar companies in the coaching space. So I'll listen to him, uh, even though he doesn't have as much life experience.
SPEAKER_01:Um awesome. Well, listen, um, Ben, thank you so much for for taking the time. I always love at the end of the show just to sort of offer your chance for you to um you know promote what you've got, you know, books or podcasts that you still have going, obviously your services. What uh what would you like to tell people about?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So um first my book, Purpose Up, Break Free, and Find Work That Matters. If that sounds interesting to you, look me up, Ben Stein, and Purpose Up Break Free on Amazon. You can get that there. And then roughly speaking, it's it's three parts. One is that healing journey to kind of get rid of the stuff that's holding you back, two, how to get clarity on where you want to go in the future. And then three, what are the the strategies and tactics to help you bridge the gap? So if you're in that kind of quandary about where am I going, what's my purpose, this is uh a great book and a starter point there. Um, if you want to learn more about me, purposeup.com uh or on Instagram, coach Ben Stein, that's uh B-E-N-S-T-E-I-N. And those are and I'm also on LinkedIn, so you can look up purposeup ben Stein, career coach on LinkedIn. So yeah, those are places that you can find me. And lastly, uh another tool, if you guys are in the job search process, if you go to purposeup.com slash gift, uh, you can find some amazing AI tools to help you uh elevate and advance your job search process. So um that's a gift to listeners listening today.
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic, amazing. Ben, thanks so much for your time. Been uh amazing uh chatting with you, and uh we'll speak to you soon.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Chris, thanks for having me. Uh I love what you're doing, and uh keep uh keep shining your light on the on the best stories out there.
SPEAKER_01:All right, man, take care. And that's a wrap on this week's episode. A huge thanks again to Ben for coming on the show and for also being so open about his journey. And of course, a big thanks to you all for listening and watching as well. If you'd like to learn more about Ben's work, his book, or his podcast, or anything else that we've talked about in this episode, you'll find the links in the show notes and over at Noordinarymonday.com. If something resonated or surprised you or stuck with you from the episode, feel free to reach out, either by social media or emailing me at hello at no ordinary monday.com. I read every message and I always love hearing everyone's reflections and reactions on the show. As always, you can find full video versions of these episodes on YouTube, and we also post bits and pieces across Instagram, LinkedIn, and of course the No Ordinary Monday podcast community on Facebook, where you can join the conversation, ask questions, or share your thoughts on the episodes as well. Next week on the show, I am joined by magician Sean Borland. Sean spent more than a decade obsessively studying illusions and the psychology of magic, logging thousands of hours and performing for royalty and billionaires and aid-less celebrities all over the world. And one particular night in a remote century-old house in South Africa, that mastery led to a seance that escalated far beyond what anyone in the room expected. And he also has a few tricks up his sleeve from me during the show as well. So make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss out. If you enjoyed today's episode, there are four simple ways that you can support the show. Number one, click five stars on this episode or the show on your podcast app. Number two, leave us a short review. Number three, share the episode with a friend, family member, or maybe a colleague. And then number four, support the show at buymeacoffee.com slash no ordinary monday. Any one of these things helps us keep the lights on, avoids adverts, and allows me to keep bringing you thoughtful, story-driven conversations week after week. And that's it for this week's episode. This podcast is independently produced, hosted, and edited by me, Chris Barron. Thank you so much for listening. Take care, and we'll see you next Monday.
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