What People Get Wrong About Burlesque (Burlesque Performer)

What is burlesque really? And what does it take to build a career as a professional performer?

In this episode of No Ordinary Monday, Chris sits down with legendary burlesque performer Angie Pontani to explore the craft, history, and discipline behind one of the most misunderstood art forms in entertainment. Angie explains how a burlesque routine comes together, from music and costume design to timing, comedy, and audience energy, and why burlesque is about far more than what people assume.

She also shares unforgettable moments from her career, including appearances on Late Night with Conan O’Brien, founding the New York Burlesque Festival, and navigating difficult situations where she had to stand her ground and protect her boundaries as a performer.

This episode is a fascinating look behind the curtain of modern burlesque, and the confidence, professionalism, and creative control that define the art form.

More Info: 

https://www.angiepontani.com/

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https://www.tiktok.com/@angie.pontani

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Transcript

Cold Open: The Set Showdown

unknown 0:00

Let's keep it quiet around Sam for K for now.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This movie star TV star who was also producing this show, and she stomped over to me and she got in my face and she was basically like, What is your problem? We hired you because you're a burlesque performer. And I was like, Girl.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Angie Pontani is one of the leading figures in modern-day burlesque. But on this particular day, she was standing on the set of a major TV show in the middle of a very uncomfortable situation.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

One of the ADs comes over and he was like, Hey Angie, I I can't remember exactly how he said it. Like, do you want to take off your coat and get up there? You're like the topless dancer. And I was like, No, that's not what this was not expressed to me at one singular time in this extreme casting process. Like, to be clear, I'm not a prude. Like, you can go on Google and find butt-naked pictures of me six months pregnant, eating pizza with Lady Gaga, draped in pearls.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Standing there on set with the entire crew watching and the production burning money by the minute, Angie had a decision to make.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Luckily, this is not my first rodeo, and you're not gonna peer pressure me.

Meet Angie Pontani

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Hey folks, and welcome back to another episode of No Ordinary Monday. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm your host, Chris Barron, and each week on the show I invite a guest to relive their No Ordinary Monday story. An extraordinary event or experience that stands out across their entire career. We'll also discuss the past the letter there, we'll explore what the job is really like behind the scenes, and at the end, they'll reveal the key lessons that they've learned along the way. Now, before we dive in, I just wanted to share a quick bit of news of the guide. The show has just been awarded Podcast of the Year in the motivation and success category at the American Writing Board. We're still a pretty young show, so it was such a lovely surprise to hear the news. So a huge thanks to the judges for selecting us, but also a huge thanks to you all for listening and watching as well. So many of you sent messages and feedback, and all of that input genuinely helps us improve the show week after week. I am really excited to grow the show to figure out better things, and hopefully you guys are sticking around for the ride. Now, today's episode takes us into the world of burlesque. My guest is Andy Fontani. Andy is one of the most celebrated burlesque performers in the world. She's a former Mystic Doctic World, co-founder of the New York Burlesque Festival, and for more than two decades, she's been performing on stages across the United States and also around the world. From the highs of performing on major stages and appearing on shows like Conan O'Brien to the realities of working in an industry that are often misunderstood. As you heard at the start of this episode, that misunderstanding can countly to a very difficult and awkward story to further. So today we'll explore Andy's path into burlesque, what the job is really like behind the glamour, and the unforgettable day when she had to protect her art and her reputation on a film set in front of an entire pissed-off production crew. You're listening to No Ordinary Monday? Let's get into the show. Angie, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I'm good. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

No worries at all. Where where on um this beautiful planet are you calling from today?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Uh right now I am in Brooklyn, surrounded by snow.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I I honestly I love New York City. Um, I think it's one of those places that you when you go there. I don't know if people have listening have been there, but it's like you're walking through a movie set because so many movies have been shot there. And the last time I was there.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I felt like I was in a movie set today when I was outside shoveling and all my neighbors are out shoveling, everybody's complaining. I was like, I feel like I'm in a movie, which makes it more tolerable.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, it's it's so romantic. And the last time I was there, it was snowing as well and cold. And um, me being in Indonesia right now, it's like tropical weather. I've got a t-shirt on, loving it.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, it's not snowing and cold.

Burlesque vs Cabaret: The History

SPEAKER_02 4:04

It is not at all, but yeah, that's amazing. And I guess New York City is kind of the perfect place for you to be, given considering you're in show business and um the amazing stuff you do. But I want to start off, I want to give people listening a little bit of context to what you do because I think a lot of people like myself, their sort of touchstone or their reference for burlesque and things like that is probably like something like Moulin Rouge, the movie with Nicole Kidman and uh and Iny McGregor. But I guess it's worth just starting there. Okay, so if people are familiar with that and burlesque in general, I mean, what does that get right? What does it get wrong? What is burlesque really like um in the reality of things? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Well, you know, Moulin Rouge is great. I loved it myself, but it is not really burlesque, it's much more cabaret. Um burlesque is a satirical art form that really evolved from um in the like I guess we I mean, it goes way, way, way back to the villages in southern Europe where guys would be rolling around in carts and pulling into villages and do these little satirical plays uh for the villagers where they would be making fun of politics and religion and relationships and whatever was happening in society, right? So it was all about satire and comedy. It evolved greatly in the late 1800s when a woman, Lydia Thompson and her British blondes, came to New York from London and they put on this play. I believe it was called Ixion, but they were basically doing Shakespearean plays as women in drag as men, but they were wearing tights and doing all these things, and everybody just lost their banana bobe minds because there was a leg in tights, they saw the whisper of an ankle. You know, it was women doing comedy and doing suggestive comedy. And from New York went crazy, United States went nuts. From that evolved, people came in, like people like Josephine Baker, um, uh much later Tempest Storm, Dixie Evans, these icons of burlesque that kind of created the imagery that we associate it with now, which is, you know, buxom women in gorgeous costumes, doing these elaborate strip teases that have this tongue-in-cheek reference. And when you go back to that period in time, especially in like the 30s and the 40s and the 50s, burlesque had a lot of comedy in it, you know, like slapstick comedy. So these guys would be doing these hokey jokes and the girls would be playing along. And it was just this kind of really deep, ironic entertainment that people went nuts for. They called it the poor man's follies because it was accessible for everyone. And it was one of the first places in American history where women could go out and get a headlining gig on stage, making buckets of money and really controlling their own destiny. So I know that's a big, a lot of information. I skipped a lot of things, but but that's really what it comes from, you know, and it it flourished in the States. These people were making money, they were headlining major shows. You know, they say in like the Great Depression, Broadway went down, burlesque stayed right here, people were going to the shows, you know. Um, and and then you fast forward to where we are now, right? In the 60s and the 70s, burlesque petered out and became more of what we associate with gentlemen's clubs. The bands left, the you know, comedy acts left, a lot of the bigger production left because people had TVs and radios at home. It it kind of stripped away a lot of the um like the big wow of it all, you know. So it kind of started to morph. And then in the 90s, it came back in the resurgence that we see now, which I'm a part of, which is it very much harkens back to the spirit of the early days of burlesque, like in the golden era, the 30s and the 40s and the 50s, but it has a very, very much held on its to its satirical roots. So a lot of people look at modern burlesque as like extremely feminist, extremely political, extremely body positive, extremely diverse, something that really has helped push the needle in in our society and where we are now and how things like women's bodies and sexuality are viewed. Sorry for that huge answer.

How Burlesque Shifted And Returned

SPEAKER_02 8:24

No, no, no, no, that's absolutely perfect because it is honestly, it is fascinating. The history is incredible. And I'd never, you know, again, I I was aware of burlesque and and what it was um, you know, it its sort of role. But I guess I had that sort of like Moulin Rouge-esque, and I really read into it like Moulin Rouge, I just say it's cabaret. And you know, cabaret is the big show, and then you might have a burlesque you know performance within a cabaret show, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super related. But what's really interesting is as you I was just as you were talking there, in the sort of like 1670s, it kind of it went died off and became different things. And you know, that sort of like exotic dancing aspect of it. Like, do you think that it sort of it it mutated into different things? And one of those things was the kind of more like the sort of strip club y kind of things. And I'm just wondering where where the birth of that sort of side of things came from.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Well, I think that sort of side of things has been around, you know, longer than we all know. Maybe it just wasn't very well documented, but you know, there's always been that side of things. But I think, you know, and my my sources of knowledge were directly from a lot of the women who were working at that time. You know, I was fortunate in my career where I was be able to was able to become friends with people like Dixie Evans, Tempest Storm, Blaze Star, Satan's Angels, like these titans of burlesque. And they all said that, you know, once TV and radio came in, uh, things got more competitive in the shows. So these big theaters suddenly couldn't sell all their seats, you know, it wasn't as exciting for people. And, you know, you start to lose elements of theatricality. And then you start to get more competition amongst the girls because you got to make your money, you gotta keep your slot, who's bringing in people? And they would always tell me that that just pushed certain girls to get like a little bit more adventurous in their performance until ultimately though, that's all was left was the dancing girl, and theatricality need not be involved because it just kind of started to target into a different space. And that's always kind of what I was told. And I I think that definitely tracks, you know, when you think about how entertainment has changed along the way, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah, absolutely. So I want to jump in. Um, yeah, your um your first contact with this, like, you know, this because this is your life, like it's not just something you uh side hustle, uh side hustle or whatever. Like, when when did you first make contact or when did you first encounter burlesque? And when did you sort of like fall in love with it and go, like, okay, this is this is me, this is what I want to do?

Angie’s Origin Story

SPEAKER_00 10:54

It's pretty wild. My first encounter with burlesque was when I was 17 years old. And I was going to NYU, studying theater and dance. I was working at a coffee shop, and one of the guys that I worked with was like, Angie, you have to come and audition for this show that I'm doing. You are gonna lose your mind. You're perfect because I've always had a vintage aesthetic. I love old things. Like, I'm just I've been drawn to it my whole life. And so I would go, you know, go to go to work at the coffee shop in my little vintage, like 1960s bell bottoms. And he was like, Come see the show. So I went to go see the show. It was called Dutch Wisemans. It was in an illegal loft in the city in the 90s. It was a a raging time to be young. Um, and I loved the show. It was a burlesque show. I had never seen anything like that. You know, there were so many references to like the MGM Technicolor musicals that I grew up watching, like all the big production numbers, but the strip teasers just blew my mind because it's just it, it's such a beautiful craft when it's done right. It's sexy, but it's hilarious and it completely disarms you from all these things that we're we hold so tightly and it gets so weird about in our lives. It's just, it's all put out there for you and it's funny and it's just delivered beautifully. I fell in love. I auditioned for the show, I got in the show. Um, they almost died when they found out I was 17. They were like, we're already illegal, but now we're so illegal. Um, I dropped out of college and I stayed with that show for several years. When that show closed, I was like, I have to keep doing this. So I just started to work on my own and I just kind of found my way through the city. I started a production company with my sisters where we did tours and shows. We were the world famous Pontani sisters, and we just, it was kind of like a like a gorilla project. We just did it ourselves performing at bars all over the city. I I fell so much in love with it because, you know, I love performing and I love the arts, but there is this like no velvet rope approach with burlesque that makes it just really accessible and tangible to everyone. And I love that about it. I mean, that's those are the arts that I love. I don't want to participate in an art that makes someone feel less than or that they're not good enough, or they can't afford it, or they don't understand it. I want, I love to be able to provide like a service through the arts that's just you're having a great time. You're enjoying it. And that was it. I fell in love. I never thought it would be my career.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Oh, really? You just thought this is something, this is I'm super passionate about it. I'm gonna try and make some money, and then everything else just you worked hard, I guess. I mean, it's not an easy thing to make money from because you guys had to work your butts off, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Especially We definitely worked our butts off because we had to pay the rent, you know? Yeah, um, we worked our butts off and we found a way. And I never thought that so many years later I would still be doing it, but the timing was right, the work ethic was there. The it was just it was it was a perfect storm, I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Oh, it's so good. And you're such a fountain of knowledge when it comes to this sort of stuff as well. And like it was that just acquired through all the different people you interacted with through through the industry.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah. When I started, I didn't even know what burlesque was. I went home on my old like dial up computer and was like, like, what is burlesque? When I started to learn about it, it just like blew my mind. I was like, look at these baddie punk rock grannies. Like, oh my god. And I just was like, I have to find them. This is amazing. Like, what lives, what stories, what what a way to make it in a world that's stacked against you. Um, and I just I just fell in love with it. And I started to learn more and more about it. And then, you know, as I said before, I was really fortunate that most of them were still alive. So I was able to create these relationships. And one thing they all love to do was tell you stories and tell you the history. And I mean, it was really amazing.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

And you're just like a sponge absorbing it all. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Absolutely. I'm like, this is this is history I can get down with.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned story there, because I think you know, whatever art form you're doing, so like I I make documentaries and it is an art form in a way, and the way that I tell my stories is through obviously like visuals and sound and editing and all the different tools that we use as filmmakers. But it's like I was looking at stuff what you guys are doing, and it's almost the same thing. Like you guys are storytellers through dance and through performance. And you know, so in the same way, like I guess just sort of deconstruct a burlesque performance in a little bit and how because you're also a producer as well as as well as a performer and a choreographer, how does it all come together and and what does it take to put together a performance?

Building A Routine: Music To Reveal

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Well, for me, you know, it'll usually start with a song, and I really prefer to work with a live band. That's what I do 90% of the time. So it starts with a song, and I have to have a song that speaks to me in in some way, you know, and really inspires me with the movement and and with the lyrics, if there are lyrics, and then I'll move on to the costume, those elements. And you know, in burlesque, there's so many ways to take off these pieces, right? But for me, it's about eking out every single solitary piece because it's a tease. I mean, this is my arm. You see it when I go to the grocery store. But when I'm, you know, pulling off my glove and making it so and sexy, it's part of the journey of the routine, you know? And as each piece of the costume comes off, sometimes you don't know where it's coming off. It's these secret snaps and hidden zippers. It just builds this excitement and this momentum, you know? So, but for me, it usually starts with the song and the concept that comes from there. Like lately, I've been doing a number to Danzig's mother. And um, it's, you know, it's a total punk rock metal song, and that's not traditional burlesque, but I can perform traditional burlesque to that song. And as a mother, you know, it's a very amazing song to perform to. You can kind of feel the journey of motherhood rage coming out of you as you strip out of this costume. So it becomes very symbolic. And additionally, you know, a lot of people when they look at these performances, you see the costumes, you know, you hear the music, you see the look, all of this and that. But so much of it also relies upon like lights and blocking and all of these things that go around it. So it's a slow build, you know, it takes a couple months, and then even once you get out of the gate with the pony, you know, you work it out on stage. You feel what works, you feel what doesn't, and you figure it out. But it is storytelling, you know, from very top to very bottom. I can get on stage and I can take off all my clothes and it can be incredibly unexciting, absolutely. But when you build it with these steps in a burlesque routine, it it is very, you're building tension, you know, and it's a very exciting moment, you know, when you're standing up there and the gloves about to come off your finger and everybody's losing their minds for a finger. It's not the finger, it's the symbolism of the moment, it's the energy of the moment, it's the involvement of the audience because that's one of the things about burlesque too. You know, you can go see shows, and a lot of times the audience, yes, it's great as an artist to have a great audience. A great audience in a burlesque show fuels that show. They are part of the show, they are the jet engine, you know. So it feels like um a very together moment.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I think what's because I was looking at it, I think what's really interesting about it is it's almost like a mixture between like pantomime and ballet and like all of these different kinds of like theatrical performances, like roll into one and then delivered in this sort of like choreographed but slightly improvised sort of like mechanism, which is I'd never like deconstructed it that way. It's really fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

You know, there's so much there, and people don't realize it. And I I constantly say burlesque is like the stepchild of like American theatrical history. And people don't want to accept her because they think she's so scandalous, but she's really not, you know, she's really not. And and there's so much history, there's so much depth to every performance, there's so much knowledge there. It's you know, to me, it's just it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful art form.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

And like for a documentary, like we might spend, you know, months or even years, you know, trying to, you know, work on a project that creates an hour-long documentary, for example. How long, you know, for a for a performance of a few, you know, five minutes, I don't know how long performance is, but how long does it take you to prepare that particular performance?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

You know, I mean, I think uh, you know, as somebody could say to me, Hey Angie, can you make up a number and go do it tomorrow? Yeah, of course. I'll go down the stairs and I'll grab something. But like if I want to do something like, you know, I have a number to Jersey Girl by Bruce Springsteen, but it's reimagined in like a kind of jazz bop version, or like mother, it's gonna take me like six months uh to get my costume together, to work on my choreography. But then again, like once I get it on stage, I'm gonna say, oh, that doesn't work. That feels too chaotic, you know. Oh, this is a moment that I have to really milk more. Like, oh, this is a moment where I have to kind of force myself to stand in silence. So I think for me, it's really a year to get a number to the place where I I I feel like we're best friends, you know. And I have numbers that I've been doing for 20 years. Once I get it, it's like you keep it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

And then you can get so much more fun with the improvisational part of it, you know, because you know the routine like the back of your hand. Then you're just in a like a flow state and you're oh yeah, feeding off the off off for off the audience. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Which is the best part. It's the best part, you know, not being locked to every five, six, seven, eight is glorious.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

I was just thinking, can you study burlesque or is this something that you actually have to sort of go and live? Then, you know, going to university.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

You can study it. There are a lot of people that teach classes. I've taught classes at times, but you know, you can study it. And as when you study it, I think you you're learning the history and you learn the intention. Um, and you can learn for sure, especially when you're dealing with classic burlesque, there's a lot of posturing, there's a lot of um, you know, ways that you hold your body that are are really um important. Like I did I consulted on Gypsy on Broadway last year, and that was really fun. And and that was the whole basis. First, we shared, I shared the history, and then we got really into like the body posturing of classic burlesque because it's it's important. You're creating these shapes, you know, and anybody can create these shapes, but there's a way to hold yourself when you do it. So, you know, you can learn those things, but you know, you gotta get out in the weeds and you gotta do it because the best burlesque performances they come from the soul, because there has to be that satire, there has to be that accessibility, there has to be that punk rock attitude. Otherwise, it doesn't sell in the spirit of burlesque.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah, you gotta be in the vibe, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

What um we kind of mentioned it before. But like, you know, we are in a space where burlesque it is a strip team, so you are removing clothing throughout the whole time. And we're talking about vibe and the audience being on the right wavelength. But like you must have experiences where the audiences maybe aren't on the right thing they get the wrong end of things. Like they struggle with knowing where that line is and what the performance versus what they think it might be. And you know, it's exotic dancing and all that kind of stuff. Have you had experiences like that where yes, absolutely.

Audience Energy And Craft

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I mean, of course, especially in the early days, you know, because when I started in burlesque, people it wasn't something that people knew what it was. You know, I remember trying to book club gigs, and they would be like, Well, what do you do? And I'll be like, Well, I'm gonna send you a press kit, you know, I'm gonna mail you this VHS tape and blah, blah, blah. Um, I I will say in my career, I am very fortunate that my um good experiences outweigh my bad. Um, and uh, and also that most of my fans are ladies. But there have definitely been spaces that I have walked into where the expectation did not meet the reality of the service being provided.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

And what just what in one particular story um that we talked about before we jumped on the call was um uh with with the what was it, it old gentleman's club or something like that. What was it?

Lines, Misreads, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 23:22

It was the country club, which should have been my first red flag. This is when I was I was really young. I was probably not even 21, you know. I was playing 19, 20. I had just started after the show that I was in clothes, and I was so ambitious and so excited. And so I said, I'm gonna make all these costumes, I'm gonna get all the girls together, we're gonna create our own show. Um, and I did. And I had gotten contacted by a party planner, and she said, There is a country club in upstate New York, and you know, they want you to put together a bunch of girls in these show girl costumes and come up, and um, the guys are gonna be playing golf, and you're gonna, you know, walk around with like trays of candy. And, you know, I I think the thing that guts me the most about this story is how excited I was. Like how I thought this was such a great moment for me. I had made all the costumes. I took pictures of them with my Polaroid, I sent them to the event planner. They were beautiful, the girls look beautiful. So we get the gig, and I'm like, this is the start of me, you know, getting out there, getting my name out, getting these great gigs. So we get the gig, we get in the sprinter van and we head upstate and we get to the golf course, the country club, and we're in our costumes and we're walking around, you know, passing out these candies, and it's a bunch of old, very rich dudes playing golf. And, you know, I didn't think I was happy. I was like, this is amazing. Have a fake cigarette and a lollipop, you know. Um, and we were having a great time. And I thought everything was cool. And then uh we had a driver, a guy from Brooklyn, super nice. I never met him before. He was just a sign to drive us up to this country club and then back. And he pulls me aside. We got had a little break, and I went back and he pulled me aside, and he was like, Angie, you know, they came up to me and they asked me to leave. Like they told me they want me to leave, and they, you know, were gonna give me a hundred bucks like to go to the movies. And I was like, why? And then they showed me all these pictures, and I mean, this is like the 90s or the early 2000s, so they were like showing him like a photo album of last year's party. He's like, and I don't think, you know, you guys know what they think that you guys are gonna do. He was like, it was, it was like really bad. And I was like, like my brain like exploded. I was so angry, so disappointed. And I was the leader of the group, and I didn't really know what to do. I mean, I had my sisters with me, so that was good. Um, but it was it was it was hard, it was like very gutting. Like these guys thought we were gonna, you know, go full happy ending. Yeah, and we were standing there in little showgirl costumes and trays of candy, like little doofuses, like, oh, here's our big break. So we left. We left. And you know, I I and some of the girls were crying on the way back, like they were triggered and so sad. And you know, we didn't make a big deal out of it. I think I I don't even really remember exactly how it went down. I think my sister and I went to the guy who was in charge, and we're like, you tried to send our driver. Like, first of all, that's insane. Yeah, and thank God for this guy that I didn't know from Adam. I mean, he could have taken the hundred bucks. I'm sure he could have used it. We all could have, we were all broke and gone, but he didn't. And and we all, I said, we're leaving. We heard, we're out. We got our little candy trays and our little sad costumes that I worked so hard on, jumped in the sprinter van and went back to Brooklyn. And it was a sad my my one sister was raging. I was kind of just in shock. And like some of the girls were crying. Like it was just really, I mean, it really felt bad.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Was it was that like a wake-up call? You're like, oof, you know, like you kind of had this like fresh enthusiasm, like, oh, I'm going into this amazing like art form. And then you're like, okay, all right, this is the real world, and you gotta be careful.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Absolutely. I mean, up until that point, I had kind of been like in a bubble here in New York where like, you know, people get it, people understand it. We we work in this world, we live in this world, we understand it. And that was, I think, the first time that I was really like, holy crap, and just outraged. I was, I was very, very outraged. And, you know, I I reached out to the woman who booked us, and I told her, and she like laughed it off. And she was like, Well, you know how guys can be. Wow. It was super wow. And you know, it's just one of those things, too. Like when I look back on it, I I thank God. I mean, there were probably about six of us there, you know. So we were a strong group together, and we had all worked together on different projects. We all came from like dance and theater backgrounds. So I am very thankful that we were all there together, that it wasn't like just two or three of us. And, you know, maybe you feel a little paralyzed and frightened in that moment. But yeah, I mean, it was it was a wake-up call for sure. In fact, after that, I never went to another gig without a security person. I added that to our contract that we need a security person. And just by adding that into your contract, that kind of sets an expectation of behavior when you walk into the room, you know. So even if that security person was my friend Mel, you know, it didn't matter because they were like, oh, they're bringing security, you know. So it kind of uh kind of insulates you a little bit. But yeah, it's a it was a wake up call for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

And it was a gross wake-up call because I was like, you guys are all disgusting because nobody in this room is under 65, and we were all like 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and everybody's got a wedding ring on, and you got you're in your country club with your fancy cars playing golf, like uh gross.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I think that what that does, it sets us up for this sort of, you know, because every um every episode I love guests coming on and sharing sort of the most sort of like significant stories of their career. I know that was a big one, but you know, you've lived a life and you've got so many stories to tell. And what that story does, I think it sets it up nicely for our big sort of like no ordinary Monday story. And we've we're talking off off before we recorded, and you've got two, which I think is really cool. And I wanted to start rolling off that one off onto the first one, which I think is a sort of and the reason I I'm gonna go for two is because they show such amazing polar opposites of this industry. And the first one kind of rolls off the back of that one, but you're a little bit older, and the second one kind of shows okay, you know, it can be incredible and amazing, and you know, it's such a great message and story as well. So can you just roll us into that um that first story?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yes, I shall set the scene. Yes, it's 2021, um, fresh off the pandemic, you know, haven't been working a lot, and I'm going to pick up my daughter at her preschool, and I get a phone call from a casting director that knows my husband. They know me from Instagram. And she says, Angie, I have got a role for you on this TV show, which is on a major network. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say what it was, but it was it's a major network. And she said, you know, we need like a sexy go-go dancer, and we really want you. Um, and I'm gonna, I wanna just make sure you're available and and then I'm gonna confirm it. So I said, Oh yeah, I love go-go dancing. Like that's another thing aside from burlesque. I love go-go. I think go-go is a part of burlesque history, and I love classic, you know, 50s and 60s go-go. It's so much fun. Um, so I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And in my head, I'm like, oh my god, 80s go-go dancer. I'm gonna have like maybe some neon, like a spiked bell. This is gonna be so much fun. So she said, I just have to talk to the star of the show, who's also the producer, who is a pretty big Hollywood celebrity. Um, and she's gonna go look at your Instagram. And if she likes you, we're go, you know. So that happened. Another casting director called me back. They said, She likes you. We really want you. And I said, Okay, cool. You know, can you tell me a little bit more about the part? And he was like, Well, it's a go-go dancer, it's the 80s, uh, she's a little bit punk rock, and you're just gonna be dancing in the background of this scene. Now, again, I have done a lot of TV and I've done a lot of film at this point in my life. And every time I do it, I'm doing it as Angie Pontani. You know, it's like I may be in the background in a club, but I'm doing it because the casting director saw me somewhere and was like, we want you. Bring your costumes, do your makeup, do your hair, your Angie Pontani in the background of this. So I said, okay. And I said, just I just to be sure, I was like, tell me what the parameters of the role are. What's the nudity? And he said, There's no nudity, you know, it's just you and your go-go. Maybe it's like implied nudity, like maybe it's open back, but you have pasties and long hair, but you're good. So I was like, okay, cool, super exciting. I love doing TV.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Go-go's not like in terms of like a dance form, it's not like full strip tease, it's kind of as as burlesque.

Contracting Safety And Standards

The TV Set Pressure Cooker

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Go-go is like you're dancing um, you know, in a cage at the whiskey of go-go in the 60s, you know, or your tour of Satana in the 50s, and or you're doing the twist and you're doing the frug. Like go-go is a legit form of dance history. So I was very excited about it. I love doing this kind of stuff. It's always super fun. People get excited. Great resume hit, always make some connections. So I go to the fitting and I was like, oh, this outfit is not what I thought. It was like this leather top and a leather mini skirt. And then I was like, well, whatever. TV doesn't always get their history and their dressing and their vibes right. It's fine. So I have my costume, I everything's set. I show up on set, and the first thing that happened that I didn't dig was like, I've always got my long nails. They cut my nails off. And I was like, why are we cutting my nails off? And they were like, Well, you're a little bit of a rough go-go dancer. And I was like, A rough go-go dancer? Like, what? They did my hair and my makeup. It was like very Pat Benatar if she like didn't take a shower for five days. Like, I was like not vibing with this completely, but I'm like, whatever. Okay, I don't like the look that's happened to me before. Um, and then we're about to go to set, and I put on my costume, and the woman was like, Well, don't put on your top, we'll put it on there. And I was like, What? That's totally weird. But then I was like, well, maybe they just don't want me walking through the streets in a bikini top. Like, I don't know. So I put on my coat and we walk over there and we're sitting on set. And like, we are on set. So, like, for people who've never been on set before, you are we were in a bar, there were cameras, lights, all the like actors are in position. Like, it's it is you're in a working environment where everything is just going and going and going. So I go over there and I'm sitting at a table with one of the other extras, and one of the ADs comes over and he was like, Hey, Angie, um, just want to make sure you're cool with everything. And I was like, Well, I'm cool. And he's like, Oh, I love that you're like so easy going, not everybody's so easy going. And I was like, Well, yeah, we're not doing brain surgery here. I'm not about to do like a brain transplant. Like, why am I not be easy going? And he was like, Oh, you're so cool. And I and I was like, wait a minute. I was like, Yeah, I'm totally cool. Like, I was like, something, I my my red flag started to pop up a little bit. And he's like, Well, you're on next, you know. Like, and I I can't remember exactly how he said it. Like, do you want to take off your coat and get up there? And I was like, excuse me. And he was like, Yeah, and I was like, What are you talking about? And he was like, Well, you know, you're like the topless dancer. And I was like, I am not the topless dancer. He's like, You're the topless dancer, that's what this role is. And I was like, No, no, that's not what this was not expressed to me at one singular time in this extreme casting process. No one said that to me. Like, absolutely not. That's not what this role is, especially now that I'm like a cracked out, like you want me to be a so basically, I'm not an 80s go-go dancer, I'm a cracked out stripper. Yeah, at the end of the rope, like, no. And I got I was, I was just like, absolutely not, because also I've done television. Like, if there's nudity, if there's like sexually suggestive behavior, there is a certain a pay rate that goes with that, number one, which I wasn't getting. And then there are a lot of onset accommodation to ensure that everybody feels comfortable and cool. None of that was done here. I didn't get any sides, which is like they send you the script that tells you. And so he I saw that he got very mad, you know, and he was like, Well, what's changed in you? And I was like, Nothing's changed in me. I did not agree to this. I'm not an actress. Like, I do TV when people want me to do TV as me. Like I would not have said yes to this and wasted anybody's time. Like, because why would I do that? I I'm not doing this. So he was like, stomped away, and then he went and he got this movie star, TV star who was also producing this show, and she stomped over to me and she got in my face, and she was basically like, What is your problem? We hired you because you're a burlesque performer. And I was like, if you took one second to look at my resume, my history, my body of work, my Instagram account, where would you see the correlation to this part? And she was like, Well, why did you change your mind? Everybody just kept saying to me, Why did you change your mind? And I said, I'd never change my mind. This wasn't expressed to me. And she's like, Well, you're a burlesque performer. And I was like, I am a burlesque performer. And when I do my burlesque performance, it's uh in a highly curated environment that I create to project an image of me and my nudity in a way that I want it to be done. And like, to be clear, I'm not a prude. Like, you can go on Google and find butt-naked pictures of me six months pregnant, eating pizza with Lady Gaga, draped in pearls, you know, because that to me.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

What a sentence, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Yeah, yeah, you know, but this to me is not the image that I want to project. I don't want to project myself as a cracked-out topless stripper in a bar for a punchline in your lame ass script.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

And there was no, this did not happen in any singular way that it should have happened. Now we are in a room, all the everybody, all the guys, like all the grips and the cameramen, they were pissed because now they're I mean, you know, work in film.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Yeah, and money's burning. People are there.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Money, I am burning money, but they're burning money because they were disorganized mess. And I was just like, You are not going to peer pressure me into doing this. Like, I have clearly set my boundaries. So then she stomps away, and I mean, she was literally in my grill, and I was like, girl.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Have you done your mandatory, you know, set, you know, like training?

SPEAKER_00 38:37

You know, we had to do um when you do any TV now, they make you do like a training, like where it's like, um, I don't know what you call it, like what is appropriate in a workplace, like appropriate workplace behavior. Is it appropriate to squeeze someone's butt cheeks on the way to craft services? Is it appropriate to say, hey, you're looking really good after you lost 20 pounds? Like, is it appropriate to ask somebody about their sex life? We I had to go through, I had to do all these stupid videos. And here I am getting pressured by the AD, the star and producer of the show, to take off my top and just suck it up and get up there and do it. And I said no. And then they went and they called the first person from casting, and they literally came up to me and shoved the phone in my face. And this woman was like, I need you to do this. We are losing so much money. Um, I can't get anybody else there. Like, why are you being like this? You're a burlesque dancer. Like, that's all they kept saying to me, too. And I was just like, it is so ironic to be in this um clearly performative space that talks about protecting people's rights and protecting people's autonomy of body and choice. But here, when you're the ones who made the mistake, but your your bills are spending, you don't care. And you're trying to peer pressure me. But luckily, this is not my first rodeo, and you're not gonna peer pressure me. Um, and so I basically just said to her, I'm absolutely not doing this. I like, I would have never, I would have that day that you called me when I was waiting to pick up my daughter, I would have been like, you know what, guys, this isn't for me. But here's five people that I know that would probably their actresses, they would love to do it. Yeah, I'm not here to waste anybody's time. But now here I am on set because of your incompetence. Everybody on this set hates me for standing my ground. I mean, I'm sure everybody in there is like Angie Pointani is an asshole. Um, and I'm like literally fighting with the star of the show.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

And it was a really shitty moment. But I was actually so mad in that moment that I wasn't feeling shitty about it. I was just like, screw you guys. Yeah. Like, screw you guys for treating me like this. And I'm actually happy. I'm so happy that I'm sitting here right now and not some young, not me when I was at the golf course. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm so happy that I'm sitting here right now. Screw you. I'm not gonna do it, and I'm gonna report you guys all to the union. So they were like, What will you do? So we did come up with a compromise. I said, Get me a pair of pasties and get me a long wig that I don't look like such a psycho in, and I'll do it. And I did it. And so it they like literally cut my head out of everything. They all hated my gut so bad. Cut my head out of everything. We shoot the scene, um, and we're shooting in the East Village. We're in this bar, holding, which is where they keep everybody knows a couple blocks away. Um, we're done shooting. I put on my coat, I'm walking out the door, and the AD, I'm literally about to walk out the door. The AD says to me, Well, good luck with your burlesque career, Angie, or whatever hobby it is. And then the door closes behind me, and nobody walked me back to holding.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Luckily, I don't need anybody to walk me anywhere because I'm totally capable. But I was just like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Oh, it's unbelievable. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

They're worse than the golf course guys to me.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Yeah, in some ways, but I think it's the hypocrisy, right? You know, they sort of like you know, oh, you know, we are making this big show, it's all, you know, everyone's professional, we're all like top of our game. And uh it comes down, yeah, it just shows when it comes down to it, when they're under time and under pressure, like all of that stuff just gets stripped away because it's not important in their minds.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Absolutely. But you know, like Chris, I think about it a lot. Like if I were in the reverse position, if I had a project that I was doing and there was a misunderstanding like this, I am really I I would really stake my life on the fact that I would never treat somebody like that. Yeah, I would immediately switch to problem solving, yep, and then I would rip whoever hired this person, and I would have not devolved to that type of behavior because I wouldn't do that to another person, especially a woman, especially on a set in the I mean, they didn't even take me to another room. All of this was happening surrounded by everybody. So that was like a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

And I'm just like, nah, some people are just bad people.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Good on you for for standing your ground. But like, do you think because I know that you know I I don't I work in documentaries, not inscripted, but like inscripted, I know that there are there are script changes in the last minute. Do you think that that was like uh some creative or some writer was like, oh, let's just change it so it's a cracked out stripper rather than this like go-go dancer, or do you think that was just a sort of misconstrued, like, oh, she's burlesque, so she'll just be a stripper?

SPEAKER_00 43:29

I I will a hundred percent say I think it was misconstrued because when I went back to holding and I went to the hair and makeup girls to like get de-wigged and all of this, and they heard what happened, and they were like dying, and they're like, We can't believe that they didn't, they were like, they didn't send you the sides, like this is the script. Like we all saw it. And they just didn't, and I think they just didn't send it to me because they thought, oh, she's a burlesque performer. I'm sure the people who all said they went and looked at my Instagram didn't go and look. At my Insta. When I perform, I am up there in these impeccable, you know, thousand dollar costumes on these beautiful stages, projecting this gorgeous illusion of like supreme femininity. And that's what I do. So I'm like, you guys didn't do your homework. You knew what it was gonna be. And then when it came down to it, it was too late to get somebody else. And then, but you know, then I reported it to the union too, because I was like, it was completely outrageous. And they disappointed me as well. I called them, they said, send us a written report. I sent them the written report. They never got back to me. And I had to write them back again and be like, what's going on? And then they wrote me back and they were like, Oh, we're so sorry. You know, they were really sorry how this went down. Um, it was just a miscommunication. And in my head, I'm like, there's just literally no decency here. Like, girl, you owe me a fruit basket at least, an apology. Like, I mean, have some accountability. I mean, uh to me, it was just really gross. Just and from people that are just uh so performative when they're actually part of the problem.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Yeah. I think what it shows is obviously just it's so important to stand your ground if you, you know, don't be pressured into that kind of situation. And um, it's great that you, as you said, you were not 19 and you had the experience before, you knew how to behave.

Holding The Line And Compromise

SPEAKER_00 45:17

No, and I actually felt like really empowered in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Standing up for myself, uh, negotiating to come up with a reasonable solution when I really could have just walked out with my middle finger flying in the air, you know, and just building guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

I did, you know, but you know, it it it was definitely one of those things where you're just like, man, this business, this business Yep, it'll eat you up if you're not careful.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

But it will not say that you also have another experience which shows like this is an incredible business. Um if if you if you you know if you have the right attitude, you know, and you did in that rate. It's making the right decisions at the right time. And I think that's the hardest part about show business in some points. But take us through this next story.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yes. So this next story was also pretty early on in my career. Um, uh, we knew Amy Sederis, the comedian and uh, you know, craft queen. Um, we worked at a restaurant called Marion's, where she was a waitress before she she got really popular. And Amy Sederis was going on the Conan O'Brien show. And my sisters and I danced at this restaurant, you know, every Saturday night. We would do all these really fun dance numbers, and Amy loved us, and she said, I want you guys to come on Conan with me, and I want you to make me a costume. And I'm the fourth Pontanny sister, but I'm gonna be a hot mess. Like you guys, me and my sisters were tight. We were like the short roquettes. She's like, You guys are gonna be dancing, nailing everything. I have hairy armpits, you know, I'm I'm a mess. Like, I'm just spinning the wrong way. It's gonna be a whole gag. So we were like, we made it. Yeah, we made it. This is it. This is gonna kick us into the next level. We're gonna be on national TV with Amy Sidaris. Oh my god, completely amazing. Made her a costume. We did choreography, she learned it. We get to Conan. Um, we're sitting in the dressing room, everyone was so lovely. The cast and the crew of the Conan O'Brien show in New York City was just the top of the pops. So we're sitting there, we're waiting to go on, we're waiting to go on. Now, mind you, we were so excited, we literally called every human that we knew. We sent out postcards to our mailing list because this was like before digital mailing list. This was probably like 2003. And we said, watch the Conan O'Brien show. We're gonna be on the Conan O'Brien show. Pantani sisters, Conan O'Brien, Pantani Sisters is the best. Um, and we're sitting in the dressing room, and Dick Clark was on this particular night. Rest in peace, Dick Clark. And he was just talking and talking, and we're watching from our green room, and we're like, Okay, there's really not much time left in the show. There's not much time left in the show. And one of the production assistants comes in, and they were just like, guys, we are so sorry. We're over time and we have to cut the skit. And we were just, I mean, take my heart out of my body and just whack it away.

unknown 48:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

It was heartbreaking. You know, we thought we had gotten such a big break, like these things don't come around much, you gotta be ready. And then we're there, literally in costume, like you're like waiting to go to the prom and your date doesn't show, you know? And it was, and we had told everybody to watch it, and this was pre like Instagram where we could be like, it's canceled, rescheduled, there was no damage control. Like, oh, so we went and we cried our our tears into a bottle of red wine, and we were so sad. And you know, everybody at Conan felt really bad because we had rehearsed this, like it was it was brutal. We were we were really gutted. So, you know, on its face, this is a very sad story. We go on tour, we're completing this tour with this great bandlo straight jackets that we used to work with. We were on our way home, we're in the smoky mountains. This is probably like three or four months later. We're like taking a little hike in the mountains, which was not really a hike, it was like a scenic walkway. We wouldn't really go in the woods, and we're there, and my cell phone rings, and I pick it up, and it's the casting director from Conan, and she was like, How quickly can you get here? And I was like, We're in the smoky mountains. And she's like, Well, you have, I don't remember. She was like, You have 12 hours to get here, whatever it was. And we were like, We will be there.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

How long for like I don't know?

Aftermath, Unions, And Hypocrisy

SPEAKER_00 49:27

It was, I think it was like an eight-hour drive. I'm pretty sure we drove through the night to get there, drove right into to Midtown, went right to 30 Rock, parked in a garage, got out with like the mud on our boots from the Smoky Mountains, and went right in there. And they were just like, Okay, we're gonna, you know, we got you guys, we're gonna costume you. Well, actually, we had our own costumes because we were on tour. They were like, What do you have? Yeah. Um, so we went in, and that particular skit, I think it was the um the he can't waste time skit. So they were like, Go to go to Max's, go to the music room, go see Max Weinberg. We're like sitting there, we're like scuzzy from being on the road. Go into Max Weinberg's, and he's like, uh, you know, what key do you guys sing in? And we weren't singers, you know. Me and my one sister, we sing like for kicks. My other sister was like outraged, and we were like, um, uh, well, we can sing in so many different keys. Like, what are you thinking? You know, and he was like, Well, here's what I need you to sing. And it was like, he can't waste time, he can't waste time. Conan O'Brien can't waste time. And we were like, I think I said it because I could see my one sister was dying. And I was like, could we sing it as opera singers? And he was like, Yeah, that's great. So we totally were like, ooh, and we sang it like that. Put on our tap shoes, put on our little rose costumes. I think we wore for that. Costume made us these little headdresses, and we did this whole hilarious skit with Conan and his writers, which are all also hilarious comedians. We did it, it was amazing. And after we did that, we were pretty much semi-regular on the Conan O'Brien show. Anytime they needed like any kind of like dancing girl, they called us. We tap danced with a hot dog. We pushed Abe Vagoda in a tub and sang about that as well. We danced with a horse. There was something with a horse. I I can't even remember, but it was just so amazing because from that like initial complete disappointment, yeah, came this great relationship with great people that we sustained for so many years. We danced on the show with this band, um, those straitjackets all the time. Like it was just it was an amazing relationship. And I I I think it just shows you that sometimes the greatest disappointments can be the beginning of a new beautiful relationship.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

It just shows you because it's kind of the same in I guess in any industry. It's like you have to go for these things, take a take a leap of faith. Even if it doesn't work out, they know you. They you you've you know, they it's not like they owe you one, but they're like, you know, if they if you're in their mind now, you know, now that they've met you and you've kind of come all the way in, even it didn't work out, they're like, those those girls that were amazing, they we didn't we had to cut them from the show, but we'll bring them back for this because probably in the it might be a subconscious thing, but it's like we do owe them one because we cut them from the show. So you're kind of first at the top of the list, and then you guys got it, and then that was it.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Yeah, it's amazing. And I think a lot of it too is like how you behave in the moment, right? It's like I have always tried to rise to every occasion, and and that was a bummer, but you know, we were still grateful for the opportunity and just to be in that space because that was such an amazing experience. So it's like I think the way that you behave is is is really important. And I think good brings good, you know, and there are great, great people in this industry where one thing leads to another, and then there are really bad people, and you kind of gotta have your your antenna up all the time so you can differentiate between them, you know, because life is short and the the the choices that you make as you take this showbiz path are really important.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

Absolutely. And I think um, you know, you could have been super mad. You'd be like, What? Yeah, absolutely. You canceled us? What are you kidding me? Like, do you know who we are?

SPEAKER_00 53:11

I've had to cancel people from shows at like a club with seats 150 people with advanced notice, and they get mad at me and they write me like a mean email. I'm like, this business, the ball is round, it rolls every which way, you know. And as long as you're honest and upfront and direct with people, you have to be willing to accept that it's a very, very fluid situation all the time. And that when you meet people that work well, you want to work with them because you need that person who can adapt, you know, and even like with the Conan stuff, we never knew what we were doing until we got there. And then they'd be can you do this? Yeah, we can do it. No problem. What do you want me to do? We got it.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

And you'd mentioned earlier uh Lady Gaga. Um did you meet her after the Conan? You got obviously got your big leap on Conan and then you met her after, or how did that relationship start?

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Yeah, yes, that would have been after Conan was really early on. Um, but Lady Gaga, I met after probably like 2010 or so. I mean, we had crossed paths because she was in a similar scene here in the city. I used to do shows at the slipper room a lot. She did shows at the slipper room. So we were kind of coming up in the same scene around the same time. Um, but also my husband was very good friends with her, and he used to um bartend at the bar where she would go-go dance. So that's how we really made our connection. So then when she took off, you know, and became this amazing, you know, phenomenon. Um, he still plays with her quite a bit. So we've done a lot of projects together. Hence the naked eating pizza, which also came at the drop of a dime.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Yeah, and I was just like, okay, that was that was some sort of name drop to throw in there.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

I was like, with really weird circumstance around it too.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Yeah, absolutely. So that's super cool. You got a chance to work with Lady Gaga, you do a lot of Vegas stuff as well. Like you guys are are busy.

When Doors Close: Conan Calls Back

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Absolutely. And you know, she's amazing too because like she's a person who has really um given me a platform so many times to do what I do as I do it, you know. I mean, a lot of times when people want to present burlesque on a bigger stage or a national stage, they really want to water it down, you know? Um, and she has always been like when I performed in Vegas with her and her jazz show, sh I was like, Do you want me, you want me to you really want me to do what I do? And she's like, I want you to do what I do. What do you do? And I was like, Pastey's twirling the whole thing? She's like, Yes. And I mean, you know, it doesn't seem like it's so shocking, but it is in this world because it's like there's something about burlesque, and you know, I can get deep into the theories of it, but it's like when a woman owns her own agency and it has hints of sexuality, and that woman is having a good time and isn't ashamed, and she's showing it off and she's spreading joy with it and she's empowering other women with it, it like seems to, you know, uh create a lot of censorship, you know. And um she just gave me that agency to kind of get on that major Vegas stage and do what I do, no holes barred within her show. And kudos to her for that, you know, because not everybody has that. They'll be like, we want you to do it here, but you know, can you wear a net bra and can you wear net bottoms so that we can still see everything, but it's just through sheer mesh? It's so stupid.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I want to get sort of um more a bit more reflective on your career because I say you know, you've done so much cool stuff um uh across your career. And you know, compared to the beginning of of your career, I mean, what does uh success look like at the beginning and what does success look like now to you? Because you know, way back in like 2008 or you know, before like you know, your uh was it Miss Exotic World in 2008, which is like a huge achievement in like you know, burlesque and and all that sort of stuff. It's like I don't know what you compare it to like being Mr. Universe, like Arnold Schwarzenegger, like you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

Yeah, oh I love Arnold. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

Have you met him, Arnold? Have you met Arnold?

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Oh, I can't listen. There are few people that I am gonna turn into a duo fissa with, but if I ever met Arnold, I would be a total duo festa. No, I just love him. I love I actually I'm like love bodybuilding. So I've like read some of his books, I've studied some of his methods, like I just I'm a big Arnold fan.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

So you're like being Miss Miss Exotic World 2008, like you know, huge achievement. I mean, what does you know, now that you've had like all these sort of different things you've done, like does success mean something different? You're trying to achieve something different. Like, what does you know a big success look like in in Angie Pontani these days?

SPEAKER_00 57:48

Well, I think, you know, starting out for myself, I was just like driven by this hunger, right? Like I just want it to work. I wanted people to see my work. I wanted to be able to afford to live by doing my work. So there was just this real like energy that I had when I was coming out. That I was just like, what do I have to do to work? What do I have to do to get out there? Like I would wake up in the morning, seven o'clock, click, clack, click. Who am I emailing? Who am I faxing? Where am I gigging? What do I have to do? I was so hungry. And that benefited me a lot, you know, and I worked my butt off. Um, now from where I'm at now, you know, I still in so many ways have that same energy. I think now success to me is kind of just creating something that can be enduring. I love to share the history of burlesque, you know. I love to talk to other entertainers about their journey. I feel at this stage in my life I've taken on like a bit more responsibility about what I'm sharing with the people that come after me, you know. I'm not a gatekeeper. Like I want to share my experiences, I want to help people be better. I want to help burlesque, you know, gain its rightful place in the history of American theater as a respected art form because it is, you know, and I think that's a lot about what success means to me these days. So when I do my shows now, you know, I, you know, when I was, when I was like younger, I was working like five nights a week. I was doing everything and anything. I don't do that now. Um I, you know, I've got more limited runs that I do, more limited select appearances. But above all, I'm just trying to, you know, share the history and encase that and get more of these stories about what burlesque is and what it's about out there and to empower more performers to do what they love and that you don't have to follow the path, you know, because I think one of the best things about burlesque, and this is what appealed to me like once I realized what it was. I was like, so wait, I can be a performer, I can be an actress, I can be a dancer, I can be a singer, I can do all the things that I love to do within this genre, and I can control it myself. So I'm creating my own narrative, and I've always really, really liked that about it, you know, and and you know, my whole career, everybody's like, oh, burlesque, where is it gonna take you? What are you gonna do with it? Well, I've done quite a bit. So ha take that. And you know, and and that's what's important to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

And you've also you were the the co-founder of the New York Burlesque Festival.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Is that New York Burlesque Festival? I founded that with my friend Jen over 22 years ago, and that was one of the first uh, you know, we call neo burlesque, the new burlesque revival that came about um in the 90s. We refer to it as neo burlesque. So that was one of the first neo-burlesque festivals. And we brought together performers, and again, you're talking about a time where there wasn't like all this internet connection, you know. So there were people in New Orleans, people in California, people in San Francisco, people in New York, people in Boston. We brought them all together to New York and put on like two days of show. And that festival grew tremendously till we're at its height, it was four nights sold out every night, people from around the world. So, you know, we connected a lot of dots and we really helped to perpetuate the course of burlesque in the in the modern world and to bring it to the you know the vernacular of of the everyday people, you know. When I started, people were like, what's burlesque? Now everybody has some idea. And even if it's slightly off, even if they're Moulin Rouge or shares burlesque movie, they know what the word they kind of know what it means. They have a reference to it, you know. And that event was certainly part of that.

Becoming Recurring On Late Night

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

Yeah. No, it's huge, it's huge. I mean, I think that not only do I like part of the show is that we're telling stories about people's careers and all that sort of stuff, which are always super fascinating. But it also offers people listening if they are interested in following the footsteps of that particular guest. And I guess for anyone listening to this, you know, who've always dreamt of trying to get into this industry or make a living or make a career from it, uh any practical advice for anyone listening that might want to sort of follow in your footsteps?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Uh do it. Just do it. You know, look around, look in your town. There's probably a troupe, there's probably a show. Like go see them, introduce yourself, think about what you want to do, and then just do it. You know, the hardest part is kind of like just stepping into it. Like you can think about it and twist yourself out of it, but just step into it. And then with this art form particularly, when you do that, you know, always be true to yourself. It's good to take classes, it's vital to learn your history, um, it's vital to rehearse and pay attention to detail, but stay true to yourself in your performance. You know, like for myself, I'm a classical burlesque performer and I have a lot of um, you know, um things that I do in my performance that are a specific style. But if someone who is kind of more like punk rock or or more like um, you know, inclined to be inspired from a different source, follow your source. Don't try to be something that you're not, because burlesque tells no lies. So if you get on stage and you're trying to sell something that you're not connected with, you are not gonna resonate as a performer. So always be true to yourself. But man, it's like just like any other art form, rehearse, get comfortable in your body, get comfortable with what you're doing, and then just do it. That's the most important thing. But there is access to burlesque everywhere. That's one glorious thing about it. You know, you can find a stage pretty much in any town, and don't be a jerk in the dressing room. That's also really important.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Yeah, I mean, just don't be a jerk full stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

But I mean, anywhere. Clean up after yourself in the dressing room, don't take up too much space, be friendly.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Got lots of makeup, I'm sure. Like, you know, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Oh, sometimes I'll walk in, I'll be like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

And um, you mentioned before you've got a daughter. Um I was you know jumping on your Instagram, unlike the producers on that show um that you were were making, which is pretty tough. I did watch your Instagram and have a look at stuff. And you've got your daughter on there, and you're teaching her, you're dancing a little bit, teaching a little bit. Yeah. If she kind of grows up a little bit more and has an interest in burlesque, would you encourage her to jump in as a career?

Working With Lady Gaga

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

Or I mean, as a full-fledged adult, if that was something she was interested in, I I would certainly encourage her to do it. Personally, I hope that she doesn't follow showbiz because it is a pretty brutal path, you know. I mean, I am so thankful. And, you know, I have a husband who's also in showbiz, so you know it works for us. But you know, showbiz is tough, man. And you have to make a lot of sacrifices, you have to miss a lot of stuff, you have to be available 24-7, you have to accept periods of instability. Um, but what I do love is that my daughter has been able to grow up in an environment where she is surrounded by so many different people. I mean, she's, you know, when we have our residency in Vegas, obviously she comes with us, she comes with us everywhere I could take her. I take her. She came on tour with me in Italy, Canada, um, and she comes with us when we're in Vegas and she just gets to have these amazing experiences, you know. So she's backstage in the green room and she's hanging out with the show girls and the gospel choir, you know, and the magicians, and they're showing her tricks and like she's surrounded by this big, beautiful family that all love her so much and are just showing her so many different ways that you can, you know, follow your path. And I really, really love that for her. I'm just like, one day this kid's gonna write a book. I hope it's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:46

What an amazing upbringing. Again, like traveling. I was very lucky to travel when I was a kid as well. And it it's transformative, you know, meeting different people, going to different places, seeing different cultures, like just it's so good as a child to have to be. Exposed to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

Absolutely. And I'm always like, sis, if you have any questions about anything, just let me know. And she's just like, this is cool. I love it. I've got pictures of her stage side at Lady Gaga concerts in the arena, like sitting on like the boxes that all the equipment comes in, you know, like it's just, it's, it's, it's super cool. And I I love it for her because I just think it's a a really accepting way to grow up. And I think it also instills a lot of confidence. I mean, sis, she behaves so well in groups of adults. All her teachers are always like, she's so good. I'm like, yeah, it's because kids like kid can hang.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Absolutely. Um so as I said, we've you've done so much. Is there anything that you're that you still want to do, you know, in your career? Is there anything left that you haven't done yet? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

I mean, gosh, there's there's so much left. It's like, I did I think I would still be doing this at this point. I did not. I I thought I was just like a you know young adult, like having some kicks and I would move on to something else. But now that I'm here, I don't know. There's so much more that I I want to do and that I plan to do. I mean, you name it, I want to do it, you know. Um, I I really want to help leave a lasting mark in the history of burlesque and moving that needle forward. But yeah, there's there's definitely more. There's gonna be more shows, bigger shows, more film, maybe a book. Who knows? There's a lot of stories to tell, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, listen, Angie, it's been absolutely wonderful speaking with you. Uh, at the end of these conversations, I always love you know offering guests what do you uh you know, an opportunity to plug what you're doing, your shows, obviously what you're, you know, any books or podcasts or services. What um what have you got going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Absolutely. Well, you know, I have a podcast that my husband and I have started pretty recently. We're moving into our second season now. It's called Showing Off. And we talk to other showbiz professionals, most of whom we've worked with in some capacity. And, you know, we talk about the journey. And my favorite thing to talk about on that show is like the hardships, you know, like the worst times, the times that you thought, like, oh, I flubbed that audition, like I crashed that show, you know, because some people do that and they don't come back from it, you know? And so I I love to get into those stories and just talk about how you get back up, you know, and and and share that information and give advice to young performers and young entertainers coming up because I I think it's really important, you know, to just everybody likes to talk about the wins and the victories. I I like to talk about a lot of the failures.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

They're absolutely essential to your growth in your career. You've got to fail. If you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

No, and if you can't get up, you're not gonna make it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

You can't if you can't get up, you're not gonna make it. You get up a couple of times, getting knocked down doesn't mean anything anymore. It's just another day. Pop back up, keep it moving. And that applies, I think, to every single thing in life. Absolutely, you know? No matter what you do, um, you know, you hit the challenges, you have to recover, you know, because that's just another step in the ladder. Um, so yeah, so we've got that. It's called Showing Off with Brian Newman and Angie Pontani. And you know, we have our show um Brian Newman After Dark, and that's our big production stage show that we work on together. And we're gonna be announcing tour dates for that very soon. So that's like an ongoing thing that happens all year long. So lots, there's always lots going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

And to find out information for that, have you got a website or Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:33

You can go to angiepontani.com or follow me on Instagram, Angie Pontani, where I'm always doing fun stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Awesome, amazing. Angie, as I said, wonderful speaking with you and hearing uh about your incredible career. And um, thank you so much for for jumping on and having a chat.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Thank you, Chris. I've never told those stories before. That was really nice. It was like very cathartic.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

Yeah, I'm glad to be getting exclusive.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

Wonderful. Alrighty, we'll speak to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

Thank you so much. Bye.

Redefining Success And Legacy

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

And that's a wrap on today's episode. Big thanks to Angie for coming on the show and sharing all of her amazing stories with us, and of course, big thanks to you guys as well for listening and enjoying the show. Genuinely means the world to us that you're out there listening to all these episodes and having a good time. If anything from today's episode sparked your curiosity, you'll find more information about Angie and her work and some of the things we talked about in this episode in the show notes, or over on her website, angiepontani.com. We also have full video versions of these episodes over on YouTube where we cut in lots of pictures and videos that help spice up the story a little bit for you guys. You can also find us or chat to us on our socials. We are No Ordinary Monday Podcast, and we're on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Next week on the show, we step into a world where one wrong move could be the last one that you ever make. I'm joined by bomb disposal expert Ben Renfrey. Ben has spent decades working in this dangerous profession, from his early days in the military to clearing battlefields and unexploded munitions in war zones all over the globe, and today he runs the world's leading training center for explosive ordnance disposal, which is based out of Kosovo. Ben takes us inside one of the most dangerous professions on the planet, including his own surreal experience of clearing burning oil fields in Kuwait after the Gulf War. It was a landscape that he describes as something straight out of Dante's Inferno. And he also talks about a lucky escape he had after encountering a landmine. It's an amazing story and I can't wait for you guys to hear it, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss out. If you enjoyed today's episode, there are four simple ways that you can support the show. Number one, follow or subscribe on your podcast app. Number two, leave us a quick rating or maybe a short review. Number three, share the episode with a friend, a family member, or maybe a colleague. And then number four, support the show at buymeacoffee.com slash no ordinary monday. If you do any one of these things, it helps us keep the show independent, we can avoid adverts, and allows me to keep bringing you thoughtful, story driven conversations week after week. And that's it for this episode. This podcast is independently produced, hosted, and edited by me, Chris Barron. Thank you so much for listening. Take care, and we'll see you next Monday.