Two Weeks in Vermont ft. Heirloom Apples and The Landmark Trust USA!

Transcript

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Happy Tuesday everyone. Welcome back to the Global Stewardship Podcast.

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This is a special weekly podcast where I share stories from faithful stewards around the world, land stewards, ocean stewards, people who are producing food and products, working alongside the environment and leaving the planet better than they found it from all over the globe.

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You're here today with myself, Hannah, and my nearly 2-year-old Willie Jay. He. Wanted to join in telling you about our beautiful trip to Vermont. We just got home from spending just over two weeks in the state of Vermont. We did venture into New Hampshire and Maine just a little bit, but spent the bulk of our time driving from town to town in Vermont. I really think that we saw nearly the whole state. I, yeah, genuinely we covered every major road in the state, every town, large enough town in Vermont. We went far and wide and had a wonderful time. We visited several different farms every day, but we also had scheduled farm meetings with farmers around the state. So not only do Willie and I offer photography and videography services, I fly the drone. He thankfully respects drone time really well, and so I'm able to provide farmers with. Videos to update their websites or their social media or just so they can see like aerial footage of what their farm is looking like. But then we were also able to go and make connections with farmers who maybe want to be on the podcast one day and did have some interviews right there, live with some farmers that were kind of impromptu, but really special. And so on this episode today, I'm I'm going to be sharing an interview that I did with a couple people from the team at Scott Farm Orchard there in Erston, Vermont, kind of the southeast bottom corner. But before diving into that, we wanted to share a little bit about our experience in the state overall and some of the lessons that we can learn from farmers in Vermont. So from the very beginning, the day we arrived in Vermont, we immediately noticed how local centered a lot of the food in that state is. And it was quite a stark contrast from, you know, back here in South Carolina where we live. truthfully, I've traveled to almost every state. And the Northeast just does it right When it comes to small scale farming. There are farmers absolutely everywhere, and that was the first thing we noticed when we touched down in Burlington was that restaurants and grocery stores are pulling so many things from local farmers. Even the larger grocery stores do have local sections, but our first goal when we got our rental car and got going was to go to a harp store. I'm just now beginning to play the harp which that's a whole exciting journey that I'm excited to share about. After the harp store, we went to a co-op grocery store. Very common in the Northeast. They're grocery stores that oftentimes are super organic minded, natural minded, but they source a lot of things, if not most things locally. So we were able to just stop right in. We didn't have to have a membership or anything and buy all of our groceries for the first week locally. After that we headed to Wild Earth Farm. Staying with our friends, Katie and Ben. We based out of their Airstream rental at their farm for nearly the whole two weeks, they are right in Randolph Center. It's basically the center of the state. And so it was a wonderful central location to get to every corner of the state. I would estimate that we saw an average of 12 farm stores every day while we were driving farm stores. Farm stands. Little egg stands, that kind of thing. And so after that first co-op grocery store run, we were able to buy every single thing that we ate local without personally knowing any of the farmers that we were shopping from. They were just all on the side of the roads. It was beautiful, really inspiring. It can be hard where we live, to find farm stands, farm stores, we have one of the only ones in our immediate area for sure. So it was cool, really cool. And I would love to see the rest of America follow suit. I know there is a farm stand revival kind of happening, and a lot of it is because, you know, they go viral on social media, but I think that that is the coolest thing.

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And it wasn't just our observations. Vermont actually has the most farmer's markets per capita than any other state. The farms in its rural communities provide a sense of place and identity and a connection to the land and this heritage that is invaluable to Vermonters,

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Staying at Katie and Bins at Wild Earth Farm, we were able to experience their shearing. You know, down here in South Carolina, most people raise hair sheep that naturally shed on their own, so they don't have to be sheared. Um, when the weather starts to get warmer or cooler, vice versa, they just handle it all themselves naturally. So I don't often get to be a part of big Shearings like this. You know, maybe a couple, use a couple animals here and there, but definitely not a big herd. And so it was cool to see, cool, to be able to experience, uh, Mary Lake, who she was, the shearer. She's kind of a well-known shearer in the Icelandic sheep world and see her in action. Just being marvelous and fantastic and really gifted at this. It's a very hard skill and occupation. Another special experience that we definitely won't have here very often in the south is a wool skirting party. Katie enters the contests at the Vermont Sheep and Wool Festival and has won ribbons the past couple of years. She's only done it two years, but last year she won Best in Show and we got to go this year to see the winners and she also won best in show this year. And so we got to go to that wool skirting party where people from the community like rallied around them as new parents and helped them skirt this wool that they were entering into contests and other stuff that they were sending to the fiber mill for different projects. But it was so cool to get to watch the shearing, watch the skirting, or participate in the skirting, and then actually go and see that she won with the very fleece that I got to help with. Was so cool. Also, the wolf skirting party and just the people. The beauty of her community that she shared with us about on, I believe it was episode three of the Global Stewardship Podcast. Getting to witness it in person was incredible and definitely inspirational In regards to the Sheep and Wool Festival, that was such a surreal experience because like I said, down here in the south, we don't have a lot of wool. And to go to a festival full of vendors who were making everything from hats to vests to rugs. Two household items out of wool, out of natural fibers was incredible. My favorite part, I think Willie's favorite part was actually watching an an angora rabbit's fur be pulled off the rabbit. Put right into the spinning wheel right then and there. At the festival, we used to raise angora rabbits, but you know, we would just bag up the fur and sell it to somebody who was going to turn it into yarn. But to see it in action right there was really cool. Another really interesting thing that we saw was basket weaving And the festival really renewed my passion for the slow craft of doing things in traditional ways, traditional methods with natural fibers, natural materials. If you have followed me online for any amount of time, you know that it's hard for me to get sponsors or align with a lot of brands because so many people are just, you know, making stuff that's trash from China or is just adding to the waste. And I thrift a lot of things. I do really value wearing natural fibers as much as possible. And so I fit right in in this crowd of people at the Sheen Wool Festival, which was a massive festival. Definitely a huge hit if you live in the Northeast. I know there's a bigger festival version of this in New York, but it is exciting to see people who are still doing these crafts, who are still learning and sharing these skills with other people, and we felt honored to get to be a part of it.

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The sheep boom of the early 18 hundreds really set the stage for what we now see in the Northeast in the wool industry. Vermont was one of the largest wool producers in the US for many years. The Marino sheep craze led to widespread deforestation, and then ultimately the industry collapsed in the late 18 hundreds due to western competition. But this shows a real example of how boom and bust cycles transform the land and how they impact agriculture and how the land still bears the marks. A lot of the forest today in Vermont is second growth, meaning that it was land that was once farmed, abandoned, and has naturally re forested, but. It is incredible to see the revitalization of the wool industry in now a way that is really healthy. It speaks volumes to how transformative it can be when you go from extractive farming methods to methods that regenerate the land, which many Vermont. Sheep farmers, wool farmers are in the regenerative, natural minded space. Another clear example of this when you drive through the Northeast, but especially Vermont, is all of the rundown old dairy barns. A lot of them are red. Very picturesque when you're there for foliage season to take pictures. But when you, like me, are there to visit farmers and understand their stories, it's very clear that these barns are actually taking a toll on a lot of farmers like Katie and Ben. Vermont once had over 11,000 dairy farms, and now only about 600 remain. Those 600 probably aren't necessarily using the same old dairy barns. So many barns stand empty and while many farms are shifting towards artisan cheese, raw milk, agritourism to stay alive and thriving, there are a lot of these old barns I accidentally ended up at a farm where I learned that there are people from Texas who are coming and taking down these barns to preserve the wood and the framing, and taking them back down to Texas. So that's a pretty long trip, not back down to Texas. That's taking them, hauling them all the way to Texas and are rebuilding them for wealthier people who want them on their properties. And so if there's anybody listening from the northeast, specifically Vermont, who has one of these old dairy barns that is a huge liability to their farm or that's just draining the bank. Feel free to reach out to me for sure.

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Overall, we had a fantastic time in Vermont. It was the perfect time to go. It was peak fall foliage, so getting to see all the red, orange, yellow, green trees, just beautiful. We were there for apple picking season, cider season, of course, shearing season. There were still some raspberries left at different berry farms, so we just really got the best of all of it. I would definitely consider this a bucket list trip for people. If you have not experienced the Northeast fall in the Northeast, I have some great recommendations. A list of farms that you need to make sure not to miss, and one of those is Scott Farm Orchard down in Erston, Vermont. So a little background. Have you heard of the Landmark Trust? You may recognize the name Landmark Trust, because that's the very landmark trust that owns and manages hundreds of historic properties across the UK and Europe. On my trip to England last spring, I visited several Landmark Trust locations. They are a nonprofit organization with the mission to preserve historic properties through creative and sustainable uses, largely for public enjoyment, education, and inspiration, and they actually created a branch in the United States that has since split off as its own landmark Trust, USA. Specifically the Landmark Trust, USA, they kind of have a different business model than the Landmark Trust as a whole and the rest of the world. The Landmark Trust, USA, one of the ways that they're able to lovingly maintain these historic homes and properties is through vacation rentals in which the rental income goes right back into restoration and preservation. So by rescuing old neglected buildings, not just any building, but buildings with architectural or historical merit impactful stories behind them. They're able to restore them quite often, very faithfully with attention to original design and materials. And they are offering them as short term, whole house rentals that people can stay in and then experience history through them. And so Willie and I had the honor and pleasure of staying in one of Landmark Trust, USA's historic home rentals. Some of the properties that they've restored include Rudyard Kipling's. Now Laka. Built in 1892 to 93 when Kipling was just 27 years old. The Jungle Book, written by Kipling and Captains courageous were written there. He also started Kim before leaving Vermont the home was considered a literary salon. During the day, Kipling entertained guests like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. He was the guy who created Sherlock Holmes, Henry James Mark Twain. The house was abandoned for decades in the 20th century, but remarkably many original details survived. Including Kipling's bookshelves. So Landmark Trust USA restored it faithfully down to the original woodwork and paneling and retrieved blueprints and original artifacts to restore it. So they even reversed a later modifications to recreate Kipling's visions. So today, guests can literally sit at Kipling's original desk, the very one he used to write the Jungle book. They've converted Kipling's carriage house into a rental. There's the Aimless Brown House, which is a late 1800 farmhouse. It tells the story of everyday rural life named after a 19th century farmer who lived there with his family. There is the Dutton farmhouse built in 1830. It's it's part of Scott Farm and it's preserved as part of the farm's agricultural story. And then there's the sugar house. The sugar house is where Willie and I stayed. It's a tiny rustic building, originally used for boiling maple sap into syrup. Vermont. Sugar houses were once extremely common. They're still pretty common. few have been preserved like this. Most were simple seasonal structures that rotted away, even though you still see them, few have survived. In the grand scheme of things, landmark Trust USA has restored this one to show how essential sugaring was to Vermont life. It's both an economic activity and a seasonal family tradition. And during my time in Vermont, I saw very clearly that many families are trying to revive sugaring as a family tradition. Many people still do it, but it's not quite as prevalent as it once was, despite Vermont still being the state that produces the most maple syrup in the US Landmark Trust, USA says that the Sugar House gives guests a tiny house experience, but I've been in some pretty tiny houses and I think the sugar house is much bigger than the average tiny house. But it definitely is a cozy woodsy feel. It's the perfect place to cuddle up, read a book, drink some tea or coffee while getting to kind of be part of that heritage of maple syrup in Vermont. I highly recommend this rental staying at the Sugar House, and I'd love for you to check out my social media posts about it. I got some really cool footage of my time staying there. Just beautifully captured. Fall at Scott Farm and staying at the Sugar House. Speaking of Scott Farm, it is a 571 acre working farm in Erston, Vermont. It's been cultivated since 1791. So the land has been in agricultural use for over 230 years, like since Vermont became a state, when Landmark Trust USA took over the orchard was largely Macintosh apples. But they've slowly shifted over time to have a much more diverse collection. We'll chat about it in a minute when I share the interviews with Aaron and Simon from Scott Farm, but some of the apple varieties have very interesting histories. For example, queen Victoria's favorite that would get shipped to her. The Apple that was the favorite of Henry David Thoreau. Scott Farm, also hosts Heirloom Apple Day, which is a public event that happened just this past weekend. Orchard Walks, workshops, pick your own Apple season and other events that are tied to the farm and agriculture. And this is all part of the overarching mission to preserve these historic places and provide education. Before we dive into the interviews, I did wanna mention that the Stone Trust Training Center is also based out of Scott Farm. And they have the goal to preserve and advance the art and craft of dry stone walling. If you haven't been to the Northeast and seen these walls, maybe you've seen videos of people in the uk. It's Stonewall, oftentimes used as livestock barrier walls to keep animals where you want them to be. The Stone Trust offers walling workshops, teaching the best way to learn how to build drystone walls through hands-on practice. And again, please check out my social media posts about this. They teach just the most beautiful walling techniques. It is truly an art form, and it's something that I think would be so cool to revive across, especially the Northeast, where a lot of these rock walls are dilapidated and abandoned. But even places like the South, when I'll share my personal experience, several years back when we first started the farm, we were able to get ahold of a very large quantity of really nice, big rocks. They had been uncovered during interstate interchange, construction of some sort nearby. And even if you don't have kind of an in or a plug with somebody who has that kind of rock, a lot of times when you clear fresh land or do digging, you do find a ton of these rocks. And that's how a lot of these rock walls were originally formed. But one of the reasons I thought the Stone Trust was so interesting was because we actually do have a stone wall on our farm at the very front of our farm. It, it, uh, is a structural wall that holds up our entire roadside garden and separates the parking lot. From the first field of our farm. So it would've been really interesting to have had the skills to do it properly and not a trial and error that we had to go through to do it. Right. So we're gonna dive into the interview with Simone and Aaron from Scott Farm.

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If you're wondering why Scott Farm, I think you'll realize quickly that this is a special operation. Preserving heritage, unlike really any other farm in the us. A little disclaimer. We totally did this impromptu, I did not realize that I was going to be recording podcasts when I planned this trip and I had already left and not packed any of my podcasting equipment. So what you're hearing is us just walking up to visit the orchard at Scott Farm. And so you'll hear us walking in the gravel, you'll hear birds rusting in the trees. You'll hear Willie and his stroller, and so you just might have to turn up the volume a little bit from time to time. But these stories are fascinating and that's why I wanted to highlight them on the Global Stewardship Podcast. If you or someone you know is farming around the world, stewarding the land like God intended, I always say, doing something unique to preserve varieties or unique to care for the soil for their animals. I would love for you to reach out. As always, there's a link to text me in the podcast description so you can share with me directly on there and let me know. I always need to find more people to interview and whose stories are impactful that we would want to learn from. What is your role here? Formal role? Yeah. Like your title and how long have you been here? So my name is Simon. My title is General Manager, and I've been here for about five and a half years. This is my sixth harvest season. Um, and I grew up in France. I grew up in Brittany. Brittany is Northwestern France, uh, it's Apple country. And in Brittany and Normandy. We grow apples to make heart cider in the same fashion that other regions of France grow grapes to make wine. Um, so I have a passion for heart cider and uh, I have a passion for history from the old world and old architecture. Mm-hmm. Heritage. and so Scott Farm for me was really sort of landing here, was the, just combined a lot of interests, uh, both an interest in, uh. In history, as I said, and growing these old varieties of apples in this beautiful place. I mean, you can't, this is a podcast you can't really see, but you'll be a witness, Hannah. I mean, this place is very beautiful, sort of quintessential Vermont Old Farm. And, um, yeah, passion for the apples. Passion for hard cider. We've been making hard cider for the last four years and also, um, what drew me here is that, the Scott Farm is a business, our business, to grow apple apples and to sell them. We mostly sell to food co-ops across New England, but we're owned by a nonprofit, the Landmark Trust, USA, uh, historic Preservation nonprofit. And I think the fact that we're owned by a nonprofit, I like to say we're owned by a community organization, makes us a very mission driven business. So we're very community minded. We organize events and creep nights throughout the spring and summer that are fundraisers for local nonprofits. We're very tied and very committed to our community. So the combination of all those things, I think make for a very unique farm and, and, uh, and successful, frankly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Beautiful. what is your favorite part of your job here? Like, what's your favorite thing that you get to do? Well, uh, I'm a little a DD so I think it's the combination of all those things that I mentioned. I think the fact that, you know, uh, my job is so diverse, I get to be involved in the community really tied in the sense that I connect on a daily basis with so many organizations, so many players in the community, but also very rooted in agriculture, uh, growing these amazing varieties of apples, which. Really gives us a, a niche market. Like people really seek us out throughout New England for these old varieties. And you know, we're open to the public. We have a farm market and a cafe and, being able to have people visit here. I guess one of the, if I were to name one thing that I really love about this job is. Food is something that connects everybody, right? Mm-hmm. We all eat, we like to say Apple is the most democratic fruit. It's like everybody loves Apple. I have yet to meet a person who doesn't like apples. Yeah. But then with these old varieties, these obscure varieties that for most of us, we, we've never heard of that. Are these these strange old names? Um. To have someone come to Scott Farm and say, oh my God, you have opalescent. My grandmother always made apple pie with opalescent. I've been looking for it, and people come with a story because these apples all have very unique stories. The reason why they've been passed on from generation to generation. You know, heirlooms sometimes for who knows, you know, 3, 4, 500 years worth of generations. They come with a story and people have their own story and their own connection to it. And often it has to do with family, with heritage, with a story. Yes, it's the grandmother that always made apple pie with that specific apple, or it's the taste of cider. We press cider at this time of year, three times a week at least. Always with fresh fruit, we don't pasteurize it. We combine a lot of different varieties and that taste of cider fresh out of the press, people also seek it. And it's often, you know, a, a childhood memory. Hmm. So if I were, again, to answer your question with one answer, it's really about the stories and how it connects people. Wow, I know we are gonna talk to Erin about some more of the Apple things. But maybe you'd be able to tell listeners more about the history of this place and some of the unique stories, some of what this entire property has seen throughout the years. so Scott Farm dates back to 1791. I think it was a subsistence farm for many decades. Uh, you know, they had, they had cows, dairy cows. They probably had some beef cattle, they had some hogs, some chickens. They probably tapped maple trees in the spring for maple syrup. Uh, and I'm sure they had an orchard too. In 1849. The railroad came to Brattleboro in Vermont, just down the road, and that allowed, the farmers at the time at Scott Farm to, um, sell some of their products beyond the very local region. And what I've read is actually their butter and cream won some prize. And they started selling butter and cream at the Boston market. They were able to put their cream and butter on the, on the train, and they started making a little bit of money. And I believe, well, I know that's when many of the barns that we see today were built in those 1860s, seventies, mm-hmm. And then of course, there's the connection In the late 18 hundreds and the 1890s, Roger Kipling built a house right next to us. Most famous writer at the time, and he wrote The Jungle Book when he lived here. And that had an impact because subsequently, the Holbrook, Cabot family bought his house in the early 19 hundreds and the Holbrooks were engineers very sort of cutting edge agriculture. So the Holbrook family in the 19 teens planted, uh, what will become about 90 acres of, uh, orchard here growing primarily Macintosh, some northern spies, some wealthy, but at the time, in the 19 teens growing, you know, apples at that scale was very, novel. It was very new. And, uh. A lot of orchards will pop out over the 19 teens, 1920s in Vermont and all over New England. And at that scale, 80, 90 acres because it was a business that worked at that point. Commodity apples, uh, and New England exported. I mean, it was known for its Macintosh, new England. Exported Macintosh apples to the rest of the country for many decades until the 1980s, nineties when competition from Washington, Michigan, China, south America, I mean, it's the age old story of commodities. Uh, the price started dropping and New England orchards couldn't really compete. Mm-hmm. The business model that had worked for many decades just didn't. The numbers didn't add up anymore, and sadly, there's some crazy numbers out there that I don't remember, but many orchards, had to close their doors in the eighties, nineties, early two thousands. Um,'cause again, growing, growing commodity apples and selling them on the commodity market just, just became very challenging. The ones that survived had to reinvent themselves, which meant, uh, tapping into, you know, new, new Avenue. I mean, pick your own is a great example. A lot of farms starting doing, you pick, value added product. You know, the donuts, what we now know as agritourism, welcoming people on the farm. And at Scott Farm, it coincides with a transition when Fred Holbrook. Actually decided to donate the Scott Farm to the Landmark Trust, USA historic preservation nonprofit, with the goal, uh, with the promise to keep, uh, keep all the buildings and barns, all the outbuildings, in, in good condition, but also to maintain the orchard and the orchard business. And I think a very smart idea that the Landmark Trust had was to, shift the model, adapt the orchard to these new times. And they, in the early two thousands, they hired an orchardist called z Good band who had a passion for old varieties of apples. And over the years, um, the scuff farm orchard from primarily Macintosh and commodity apples slowly was. Converted into a collection, a mosaic of heirlooms, uh, heirloom apples and other fruit too. Mm-hmm. And that's where we are now, you know, 2025. We have, our latest count is 142 different varieties of apples. Wow. We have 12 different varieties of plums. We have all kinds of peaches. We grow medlar quince. Uh, KERS berries, lots of different, different fruit, and of everything we produce on a Goodyear, it could be 12,000 bushels. It's a lot of apples and of all the apples we produce about, you know, a little over 50%, goes out to food co-ops all over New England specialty stores. And the rest stays here at our retail stand. We process a lot of apples into cider, sweet cider, and we also make hard cider and all the baked goods, apple pies, donuts, all of that. Very cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Very good recap. I like how you used the word mosaic of apple varieties. Well, when you picture it, I often, I do this weird mind game of just having an aerial view of the orchard and seeing through the trees and all these apples that have all these colors, shapes. History. I mean, they're visually, they're really striking. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it does create like a stained glass window or a mosaic. Yeah. It does create a mosaic of fruit. It's quite remarkable. That's so cool. During our big, uh, we have a big festival every year called Loo Map Day. Uh, it's on Indigenous People's Day weekend, the second weekend of October. Will display the collection of apples on a, on a large table. And we have some photos. It just, again, there's the mosaic. Um, just beautiful. And then the nice perk is that they taste really good too. That's awesome. I am Aaron Robinson. I am the orchardist or the orchard manager. I. Care for the trees, grow the fruit, run the harvest crew. Um, I am a Erston native. I'm a fifth generation Vermonter. Oh, no. So, oh no. Yes, I'm pretty proud of that. My roots are deep here, so to speak. I grew up pretty much right through the woods and, uh. And I've worked here for a very long time. I started here with no, you know, apple expertise or intention at all. I was a young mother. My son is now 17, but when he was first born, I worked for Landmark and I cleaned houses with my son on my back and pretty much started to fall in love with the unique varieties I'd never heard of. And it was, uh, you know, a slow evolution of that. I worked in, in the Orchard for six or seven years under the previous management. And then there was a big, pretty big shift in that management and I was kind of the only one here to help things through until we figured out what to do next. And it turned out that I had a knack for it. And I had a lot to learn, which I think understanding growing now, I know that I will always have a lot to learn. Yeah. So never, never fill that cup, um, completely. It was a real slow, you know, people often ask, where did you go to school? What'd you do? And I say this College of Scott Farm, everything I've learned is it's through experience, which in this specific orchard, you kind of have to, it's unlike any other orchard, not only in its variety, but it's a very unique setup that one would say isn't necessarily efficient. So you have to really understand where everything is, how each variety is grown, how it's picked. I have a fabulous crew that have been here for a long time and really help make that happen. Um, so it's, it's a tricky orchard. Um, you really need to love what you're doing to, to, uh, make it successful. Um, but you know. It is, we are dealing with a challenging environment and you can do every single thing right. And make every right decision and still have mother nature kind of strip that away really quickly. Mm-hmm. Which we've experienced personally, but in one form there's many other forms that that could always happen too, so. Right. It's, yeah. Your heart is very vulnerable when you love this craft because it can be, uh. Powerless and having kids. It's kind of that, you know, I love these trees so much. I love this, this land, I love this place. But there's so many things you can't protect'em from. Which Yeah. It's a beautiful collection, but it, it's a challenging collection because all of these fruits and their uniqueness grow differently and need to be treated a different care. So it takes a lot of, um, thoughtful growing to make that happen. Apples are the priority though, um, making up most of the orchard. Of the 140, probably 70 of those are strong producers and then, you know, there's a bunch that are just a couple trees here and there that we get a few bushels of every year, but it's a remarkable history that they hold. Um, and, understanding that it's taken. You know, the, these apples still exist because so many people cared. There's apples that are 500 years old in their existence, and that's because people have felt them worthy enough to keep around. Apples don't just grow from their seeds. They need to be grafted, which requires human intervention so that, you know, that means that for all these generations. Someone has made that link continue. And so my work is feeling honored to be a link in that, that I can keep that chain going so that in a hundred years when I'm long gone, that this place hopefully still exists and someone is still keeping these varieties around. What? Um, and they're really special. I mean, apples are wonderful. They're. Such a democratic fruit. Everybody likes them. Everyone has a nostalgia attached to them. Everyone has the favorite variety that makes the best pie. And I love hearing that these people who had an apple when they were a kid and haven't been able to find it and they found it here and they're able to, you know, experience that again is really, really rewarding. Um. It's very hard work and things like that make it worth it, you know, knowing, knowing this connection I can create for so many people. Mm-hmm. Because preservation, I'm assuming in your case, comes first. How do you balance it? Well, I mean, it all starts with the soil soil's so important. Making them known. You know, our footprint as a farm that grows these apples has kind of really grown in popularity, which is key to keeping them successful. If nobody cares about'em, you know, I can grow'em all day long, but if no one's buying'em, it's not the best business model. Um, so we, you know, I think we've done a great job and the previous management really started that. Wave the momentum of it and we, you know, I think we've continued that wave and made it really strong as far as keeping people, you know, information, knowing the, the knowledge of most people have no idea that there's even more than five varieties. Yeah, exactly. Or how hard it is to even grow on Apple. It's like, oh, do you take the winter off? And I said, no, I prune trees all winter. I would love to maybe someday, you know, I, I don't wanna sound hokey, but I can feel the energy of, there's so much history here as far as people caring for the land, even before it was an heirloom orchard. Just an orchard. And the innovation that, you know, the holbrooks had. Can you share a couple of those stories really quick about maybe the most interesting Apple variety stories? Oh gosh. They're all so interesting. Um, well, it's SOFA right here was grown in Monticello by Thomas Jefferson. Black Oxford is a Maine apple, Oxford County, Maine. Can you share a little bit about. Your crew, I know several of them have been here a really long time. Mm-hmm. How that's kind of transitioned but then also like, who's gonna come next? Well, yeah, that's keeps me up at night. Um, Mr. Ett is, uh, kind of my right hand man. He's been here for, 25 years. And it really takes understanding of this orchard that we have varieties that are in five different places and partial rows, and sometimes three trees, and then three of another tree, and that's. When I mentioned earlier the uniqueness of it, most orchards have like two rows of a variety, right? And it's very straightforward. The crew goes in and they pick that row. There's two rows, and then, you know, whereas here we have a, you know, half of it, a sofas, and then there's a Greenings and a Gravenstein, and then there's Ren, and then there's on and on, there's lamb so I, my goal and my time here is to try and make this more efficient. Um, that's, uh, it's hard. Obviously apples are pretty in the ground. Mm-hmm. You can't just plop'em around. But, um, by being smart about how I regenerate the orchard and replant, um, but for now this is what it is. And so having Mr. Brissett or these guys who know where that, when that one Macintosh back in the corner, don't forget to pick that or that one exchange grieve over there. Um, they know where to get it. So it will take a lot. The succession plan is Is, uh, complicated. And even for me, thinking about how I can help whoever I, whoever me next, um, do this well. There's so many idiosyncrasies with this orchard, so they're huge. They're just, I mean, not only their knowledge, but just their, you know, really golden people. They're. Positive and the work is hard and long and they keep an upbeat attitude and, um, and that helps me. Yeah. It's, you know, this is what we work all year for, you touched on it maybe, but what is your favorite part if you could just name one, your favorite part of what you do here. There's favorite parts of each season I think. I really love, I mean, just starting with kind of the, when the cycle begins, you know, after harvest and the trees go dormant, pruning, I'm a pretty introverted person, so harvest is a lot of. People, and this is what we want, but I always feel like I need a reboot at the end of harvest. So when I first start pruning, it's this really lovely like, deep breath, successful year, whatever. The year, another year's done, lessons were learned, new information was gained, and now I get this really quiet, peaceful time in the orchard where I get the trees are trusting me to shape them and heal them and make them stronger for next year's crop. And so there's a real gift in that, and it's an art form. Each tree grows differently trying to figure out the puzzle of each tree. It can also get long and the days are cold. And then spring, of course, spring is, I think probably my favorite. Well, again, hard to choose. There's things I like about each, but spring is just. You made it through winter and now you get to watch things you know, come to life again and look for bloom. And Bloom is your first indication of what your crop's gonna be like. The greens and the shades of green that should come out. Um, so I love spring summer's. Interestingly, the kind, when I get to go on vacation, like I can, my spray program slows down a little bit to every other week and I can kind of get away and Britt's here and, you know, it's, it's almost, I mean, there's a lot to do still. But the pressure of, you know, early spray season has relaxed a little bit. Once thinning is over, you can really breathe. Um, and then fall. Of course, the, the me, you know, pun intended, the fruits of the labor coming, these beautiful fruits that you've cared for all year coming down, they're gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous in all their forms. and you know, the, obviously your, um, your work has become successful and then once all the trees are picked and the coolers are empty, you can say, wow, I did a great job. We did a great job. Mm-hmm. Um, so there's, there's things about every year I, I couldn't. Choose one of those. Right. But, um, but this is a pretty spectacular time of year. I mean, now that we've had the rain, look at that, it's just stunning. Mm-hmm. And they're stunning. And the fruit's stunning. And everyone who comes here is happy. It's just this, this energy here that's really lively and, um, feel very fortunate that this is what I get to come into every day. Right. Yeah. And I live right down the road. So my son, I have two sons. I, my older one isn't, he drives now, so he's not hanging out with me as much anymore, which is fine. Um, but my younger son will still come and hang out and have his friends come here and they'll spend the day here. And so it's. These, you know, little things are big things in this world, especially finding those little snapshots that you can be like, this is why I'm doing this. But it's hard. It's still really hard. And then. There's always an underlying stress, really, until the fruit's picked.'cause a hailstorm could come in in 30. I mean, this time of year it's not as common, but in the summer, 30 seconds can undo your whole, your whole year. So keeping a positive mind is important, but it can be exhausting sometimes. Yeah. So, wow. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. That's a wrap on our interviews today on the Global Stewardship Podcast. Thanks for dealing with the audio. Scott Farm is one of those examples of places I go, people that I meet, who I only have to spend a short amount of time there to recognize 100%. These are some of the best land stewards on the planet. People who are truly putting their all into everything that they do. I really respected the passion behind their mission, behind their everyday activities. And I am deeply grateful for the time I got to spend at the Sugar House with Landmark Trust USA, and the opportunity to get to see an in-depth up close and personal look at how this organization works and fall in love with their vision to hopefully expand this out beyond their area in Vermont. If you found value in the episode today, please leave a review. I have forgotten to ask for reviews for a while, but sometimes people just need that little push and reminder. And most importantly, again, if you do have podcast guest recommendations, I would be more than delighted to get your emails, to get your texts. Again, the link is in the podcast description. Just click for more info and it will give you a link to text me directly. It comes straight to my phone and so that way I'll be able to continue to build the lineup for the fall and winter full of guests. And again, I appreciate you listening every single week, and we'll see you next week on the Global Stewardship Podcast.