The World's Most Dangerous Honey

Huge thank you to Himalayan Hunters for their time and work!

Check out some honey hunting photos - Hannah Boggs (@hannahatthegardens) • Instagram photos and videos

Transcript

0:00

Every time I start this show, I want to say good morning and welcome back to the Global Stewardship Podcast. But then I think to myself, you could be listening at any time of day, so I'm just gonna say, hey, thanks for listening to another episode. I took last week off, I had a two day migraine and we were preparing for our annual farm to table dinner here that we do on our farm in South Carolina every single year. I, in, in my speech that I do every year, it's always on the fly. Impromptu, I thought aloud that, I find it especially strange that we call this event quote unquote farm to table. Like farm to table is a once a year checklist thing to do. I also find it strange that we call it farm to table because our family and farm crew eat 100% farm to table every single day. we have to call it farm to table so people kind of know what they're coming to, but. You know, people, everyone around the world eats farm to table every single day a hundred percent. It's just whether or not they know their farmers personally or even the state or country of where their food comes from or even the source of a single ingredient. It's really special to host these events where people who normally just grocery shop for everything. Can have a 100% local meal where they can meet every single farmer that, that grew or produce their food. but yeah, just I thought it was really strange that we, we do call it farm to table, and that we don't all view farm to table as how we eat every single day, every single meal. For me, farm to table is this deep appreciation for my daily bread. And understanding of all that goes into. Growing my food, it's my understanding, grows every day, every year, every podcast. But for me, farm to table, is a knowing of how my food was grown, and then also the ripples throughout the world that happened because of the way my food was grown. Not a meal goes by where I don't hold a reverence or admiration for the creator of the universe who sustains us, bring the reins right on time and co-create with regenerative farmers like me. So our annual farm to table is just an opportunity for us to try to encapsulate that, try to foster that connection in others in our community. And I know we fail to do so, but we sure try. So a lot goes into it. It is definitely days and days of preparing, cleaning, cooking. Washing napkins, folding napkins, washing place afterwards. It is, my eyes are twitching. I'm so tired even several days afterwards. I think part of the reason I get so exhausted isn't really because this stuff is exhausting in itself. It's that I'm carrying the mental emotional bandwidth of holding the whole thing together, making sure everything actually happens, like when you're kind of the, when it's your brain child, a lot of the weight falls on you. I'm happy to have another year in the books and behind us. It was beautiful. Wonderful. You know it's a special experience when people are sending you raving reviews even before the night's over as they're driving home texting you about how amazing it was. We had one woman pull me aside and say to me, it's so hard not to tear up talking about how beautiful this evening was. They said it was the best food they'd ever had. I thought, man, they must have not had some very good food. But I felt really honored that she said that and that so many people sent pictures and all of their. Raving reviews within 24 hours without even being prompted to do so. You know, it's a special event when they feel so inclined to reach out and make sure, you know. So thanks for letting me take a week off. It was a beautiful time. I've been incredibly eager to share this episode, though it's actually one of my favorite stories. And although my guests are a little bit worried that you won't be able to understand their accents, I've assured them that this story is way too awesome not to share. We are going to be chatting about honey hunting in the Himalayas, specifically the Himalayas of Nepal. This is the most dangerous, deadliest honey collection in the entire world. Now, I overheard a conversation a couple days ago of some young people saying that Nepal was part of India. Just want to clarify, Nepal is. Totally their own country, their own culture in many ways. It's one of my favorite places in the world. My high school boyfriend was actually from Nepal, so I know a lot about the culture. I speak some of the language. You know, conversationally and I just love it. One of my favorite places I've ever been by far, the people, the scenery, the food, 10 outta 10. So I've been eager to find land stewards in Nepal to host on the podcast because it is one of the most geographically diverse places in the world. They have some of the most drastic elevation changes of any country on the planet. The elevation actually ranges from 194 feet, which is very close to sea level, all the way to the peak of Mount Everest at over 29,000 feet. And for those of you who know elevations in meters, not feet, that's about 60 meters to over 8,000. So that's a huge elevation change and it creates a lot of microclimates that allow many things to grow. So in Nepal, they've got rice production, millet, barley, cardamom, coffee, tea, citrus, and today we're talking about honey hunting all within the same country. Also around two thirds of nepal's population depends on agriculture for their livelihood. That's a lot of people who rely on farming to bring in the money and. Speaking of money, I think in Nepal, farming contributes to roughly a third of the national GDP, despite the fact that Nepal's becoming increasingly tourism centered, food production is still a huge part of life in Nepal. And one special thing about farming in Nepal is that most farmers are small holders who are cultivating under two HEC acres of land. These are small, intensive plots on steep or terrorist hillsides, as I'm sure you can imagine. I am excited to be discovering different people in Nepal to interview. I'm hoping to find many more. Like I said, it has a special place in my heart. The Himalayas are incredible, stunning. Nepal is a beautiful place nestled in, in between India and China. So today we're talking about a special kind of honey that's from this area, often in the mid hill regions of Nepal where there are biodiverse and rich wild rhododendron forests. And because this is the Global Stewardship Podcast, and my goal is to highlight faithful land stewards every single week who are operating with the planet in mind, with their communities in mind. You know, not just how much money they can make, how easily, how quickly, and how much. Because of that today we are here with both of the founders of Himalayan Hunters, which is one of the few companies that ethically sources this honey and puts it on the market. So today we're sharing about what Mad Honey is, their story, and some of the adventures that they've been on. They actually offer tours for people like us, myself and the listeners of this show, to join in and be part of this honey hunting tradition that dates back at least 2000 years working side by side with the largest honeybee species in the world. So today you'll hear all about that and how due to tourism and global curiosity about Mad honey, it's led to some over harvesting and dangerous commercialization. And so because of this sustainable harvest. Quotas, fair pay and community control of profits are crucial. So the ethical question here isn't just ecological and about the environment and the planet, but it's cultural as well. If you're anything like me, you're gonna leave this episode, planning your next trip to Nepal. I have missed it ever since I left. My husband's never been, my two year old's, never been, I think next time we're gonna absolutely have to go and experience this incredible honey harvesting up close and personal As always, thank you for listening to the Global Stewardship Podcast. Okay.

Audio Only - All Participants: 8:09

First of all, I'd like to thank you, Hannah, for this opportunity. people from Nepal don't get the exposure most of the time for the hard work or the things we do here. So thank you so much. We are co-founders of Himalayan Hunters where we sell organic, unique products found in Himalays of Nepal. I'm Abbi Sheikh. I'm Yashika Van, also the founder of IAL Hunters. We are husband and wife. And, starting IAL hunters was, such a dreamy or because, it's like traveling to beautiful places. Places where even roads are not, available. And it was adventure and also fun at the same time. Well, I have so many questions about it, but before we jump into talking about all these adventures and what you guys get to do, can you share where you're from originally in Nepal and how that led you here today? Sure. talking about me. We belong to different, landscape. Actually. We are from two different zones and, I'm from one part of Nepal. agriculture is one of the main, main profession there and, childhood. I, I would say it was fun. But due to the high temperature, I didn't actually, went out that much. So I come from the eastern part of Nepal, right now we're operating and staying at Katmandu. We, we are running this company, basically, I'm from the part of NAL and she's from the western part of nal. We got married and like we are staying here in Katmandu now. Yeah. In the middle living life. Right. How did you guys meet if you were from opposite sides of the country? So our background is aviation. We used to, fly for domestic airlines. I worked there for, more than five years. she was there too. We was working together and, first, we became friends. we share a great bonding. Then we thought about getting married, staying, together throughout life. So, yeah. Wow. That's awesome. We were friends for more than four years and somewhere in between we felt the connection and out of nowhere, one day he proposed and here we're today. Wow. So. What led you guys from being in aviation to now having an interest in the food system and farming? actually we both are very much, nature lover. We enjoy being in nature and, flying was, just part of the dream. And while working there, we realized this is not for us. Mm-hmm. And we want to belong somewhere, which is more peaceful, which is more, rooted. We always wanted to do something by our ourself, not like working in others company and all. We want to build something by ourselves. And in Nepal there is a huge gap, I would say, as too many products, too many good quality products are being, produced. And, the problem is that they don't get the right amount they deserve and the farmers don't get the right, amount they deserve. And that is a huge gap. I, I think, and, This product, we sell right now holds huge, health benefits and the local people value that product a lot. for example, mad Honey, is so celebrated in the village that they don't want to sell it. They always prefer to keep it, for themselves. Yeah. Yeah. For themselves, because it owes like various medicinal benefits it is used by Nepalese community from a hundred of years ago. And these products, don't get the right market. And if they do, most of the time, the people living in us or some somewhat privileged people comes and give them a really low value of. The product and sell it in very high value. And I don't think that's fair. So that was something we recognized few years back and also wanted to work on that as we are, this, agriculture country, but it's not being promoted like that. And, the farmers are not getting the right value. that is also the main reason we stepped in this sector. Right. Yeah, it's, that's a definitely a huge need. Awesome that you guys saw that. can you explain more about Mad Honey? How it's collected, how it's different, what does the terrain look like in the places where it's harvested? Okay, so, so mad Honey is a rare allic FA found in the imal region of Nepal. Mm-hmm. So the honey, is the world largest species of honeybee. It can like measure up three centimeter long. The honeybee feed on the spatial kind of rudo, Deon, there are more than 30 species of ruon found in Nepal. Among them two of, the Rudo Deon produce, the neurotoxin called Granot Toin. So the honeybee basically hive on that, spatial kind of rudo tendon. They collect nectar from the ru and they like. Take back to their hi and the honey is produced. In a single honeybee lifetime, they only produce one and a half, tablespoon of in their whole lifetime. Wow. Yeah. So, so that's the, that's the, the one of the reason, the honey is really rare. Mm-hmm. It is really interesting. The way they harvest the honey is really interesting. So it is found in the height exceeding 3000 meters. So the honeybee makes si burn the, on the steep rocks which is like 200 meter long. So the process itself is death defining It's a deadliest culture. and the technique is passed down from generations. Their, their grandparents used to harvest the honey, the wave they harvest right now. Hmm. Wow. Harvesting honey, they use all the traditional equipment. Without any safety hardness, just, they climb, through the bamboo ladder that is also handmade and everything is handmade, basically, that is made by the products available in the village they play with the life to collect the honey from the actor. For me, it was like, yeah, I didn't know how, they're doing it. It's so surprising. Basically, they climb like 200 meters, rock, steep rocks to harvest the honey from there by using all home made equipments, no safety harness also barefoot. Yeah, every time we, so every time we go there, we're really on, like, we're, oh my God. We are like, oh my God, they're doing this. And also I would like to add on the bee that makes Mat Honey, prefer very silent places. Very peaceful places, and they are not usually found easily. so. The hunting process start two, three months prior as the villagers look for mad honey or the hive, right? And, most of the time the roads are not there where the hive is because they prefer peaceful place and flowing water resources nearby. So. the hunting starts prior, the location is marked and the hive are surged for few months and it's celebrated. Worshiped and it's, yeah, it's a rituals for them. they've been doing this it's been passed out from their grandparents. They're doing this not only for collecting money, but this is a ritual. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's, really amazing to witness the process as well. but, also, it's very risky and we are concerned about the mean harvester, but, It's their ritual and they go, they climb the babo layer without any safety harness and without any soze and beer and barefoot and beer. So it said that the, if. That honeybee bites you more than 20 or 30 honeybee bites you. You can be admitted to hospital, but when they harvest the honey, there are more than two hundreds of bees bite them in their bare hand. Beer, food, right? Yeah. They are made that way. They've been doing this from like centuries. They're used to it. Mm-hmm. Honey hunting is done twice a year in, spring season and in autumn season. So after, maybe after a month we'll be there to harvest this honey. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. So fascinating. Yeah. So cool. So what are some of the medicinal benefits of Mad Honey? First of all, it, there is no resource done on OT toin that is found in, but, the villagers believe that it treats the heart, if you have, high blood pressure, it treats that and, it boosts. Immunity as all her does that. And so it is also used for gastrointestinal disorders, and for, it is also used as sexual stimulant, immunity booster. So, yeah. For treatment of insomnia. And. they also have this tradition of gifting mat honey, when someone is sick to boost their immunity. And the beller beliefs. It also cures for throat problems. yes, the mat honey texture is very different from normal honey, commercial honey. So if you consume it in moderate amount, it, it, it has various benefits, but you need to consume it in moderate amount. Hmm. Exceeding the limit can lead to like hospitalizes because the grain of toxin is, is a toxin if taken in excessive amount, it, it may harm. Right. So, a question that I have is, as you were saying, a lot of this honey was making it onto international markets and people weren't getting paid fairly. can you share a little bit more about the ethics behind, selling it internationally, but also preserving that culture for your own people? the Honey Bee that makes Mad Honey are going extinct due due to this mass commercialization of Mad Honey and also not harvesting in the particular season, makes them lose their homes. Mm-hmm. as we harvest in autumn and spring in that time, the bee, Are about to migrate. And if they do migrate, the honey itself dries out. So, to preserve the honey as well and to utilize the already available resources. The Blazers only harvest in two seasons, so. Due to this, commercialization of matney, it is harvest without, any, research and in any season. And that is causing lot of harm to bee. And that that is also one of the reason the bee are going extinct right now. We strictly don't harvest. Even if we get the order, we don't harvest it without the, Suggestion or talking to the villagers. Mm-hmm. And only do it twice a year as per the tradition. And we go along with the village villagers and also the, another thing I said was the payment or the value they get, because it is found in very Difficult places where normally the habitat or village is not established, it's just nearby few villages. So, that is also, going on right now. And we don't, we, of course, we don't do that or we don't promote that. And, those are the things that are actually harming the villagers and the bees and ecosystem right now. Right. I guess who are the people who are harvesting out of season and are there any efforts to get them to stop to protect the bees? Right now, the villagers are really active and, they look after those people. But there is no, law or, in the level of government or anything else that has been done right now. But the unity of the villages is really good. And if they, communicate and talk about this topic, they really come together to make this happen. And that is something we really need to learn. Yeah. Can you tell us some exciting stories of some of your adventures to these places? What it looks like? All the magical stories. The, the, every step we take is adventures. They adventurous, I can't even explain there's an interesting story I like to share with you. so when we were honey hunting, I was wearing all the safety equipments. And so they believe that the, the woman, can't ask the honey hunting process. The villagers believe if there is women in the group, they leave the woman down there, they start the harvest, and after getting in the middle of harvest, they called the woman. So we were harvesting the honey they, from rituals, they pray their god, they pray the nature, and then they climb. So last year, when we were there, I got beaten by a bee, it was really, really, really painful. I just opened the harness for few seconds and like four or five honey, be came and sit in my forehead like I was really off afraid. The villager was like, don't move on. Move. But it was like drilling machine, so after getting, after get beaten by one bee, after one day, then my, my face was like, like this. Super swollen. Yeah. Yeah. Super swollen. From one bite. One bite. So the only we who climb out there, like they got beaten by hundreds of bees, hundreds of bees. So, so we, we, we really appreciate the thing they do, the culture, they are pre preserving. So we really appreciate that we are really happy to be with them, to learn from them. So we are really thankful, to work like this. Yeah. That's crazy. talking about my experience the John itself is very challenging, as the roads are not there and we, the villagers make the road when they are going to hunting and most of the time the beehives are in very difficult places in just, The corners of these mountains, this hill. So yeah, it's so difficult to reach there they don't have already existing road there. And, I was going for the hunting and in the middle of the journey, there was no road at all. There was no moving forward at all. And I was, I got so panicked and the villages were already so much in front of us, and I started crying because it felt like if I go downhill, it was coming back. So, yeah. Right. It was, one of the most, scary. experience for me at that time and also made me appreciate them so much. Yeah. And, it's so difficult to find those roads and they came back to rescue and hold my hand and they just dragged me along the way. Yeah. And, yes, the women, are not invited in certain parts, where the hunting is. Going through. It's because, they want to keep women safe as a very risky environment. And when the hunters climb the ladder, the people in the ground are also in risk caused, the stones from the hills are falling down. Falling down. Yeah. Due to the moving of the bamboo. So that is also hug. Rick's one of, one villagers got so badly, like hit by the, the storm like this, this big storm hit him. Yeah. And it's a completely different experience. yeah. Witnessing the mat onion thing and it makes us appreciate the local people. The strength is so, Unimaginable. It just made me realize how we lack living in a city. So many skills we lack living in a city and. the villagers they have so many skills and strength and sometimes I wonder if moving to city was bad decision collectively. For sure. when you're looking for villages and honey hunters to partner with, how do you know, which people to partner with? How are you able to source the honey with authenticity? most of the time the villagers, make. A group of people, they divide group of people in different sectors, and, every year the group is changed and the responsibility of hunting comes to one group each year. And we need permission from the government to witness, the hunting as well. Their, unit is really strong, as I already said. For now, we already have contacts from those villagers. They call us and inform about the ritual the day prior to hunting. And we plan our schedule all the process they use all traditional method. They use traditional bamboo to filter the honey. And they keep in like jars and we directly load from that to protect the, authenticity of the honey. All traditional bamboos, all traditional like equipments available in the jungle, available in the village are used, for this specific hunting. Is there anything else that you would like to share about mad Honey. First of all, we'd like to invite you guys to witness this deadish culture of Mad and Hunting in Nepal. The villagers in Nepal are really nice. They really appreciate us. In hunting so we can witness the thousands of years old tradition happening in Nepal, it's an opportunity. Do you take groups only in the fall or do you take people in the spring too? So, yeah, we take groups twice. Once in the spring and once in autumn season, from safety board to November. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. So are there any other products that you guys, source in supply there are so many interesting products that we want to add. Another product we have right now is do two. Is made from milk. It's very good for your dog's. Dog's mouth health and it is widely famous in Nepal it is widely famous in the US too. So it is, cell by the name of, Himalayan Dog Chew. Basically it's a dog food, made in the himalays of Nepal. It is made by milk and lime juice. It's hard form of osteo. That is the product we already have right now with us. Yeah. and another product is very similar to doc two That is. Chii and Chii is just a human version of the dog chew. Yeah. It's a hard form of chew. Sope is the hardest cheese in the world. Hmm. and it slowly melts in few hours and it gives that milky flavor. Yeah. You just put it in mouth and enjoy the flavors of syrupy. That's so fascinating. And another few products we wanted to add, but we are facing few problems. That is Yasa gba. It is also one of the most demanded product and very organic and health wise. Very Good product and another product And due to this commercialization of products, we actually don't want to give people the mixed version of this product. Our matter is also a hundred percent pure. We don't do filter racing as well. We just bring the product and. Pack is it as it is? No filtration, no, no. Nothing to give the a hundred percent taste. So sometimes you might find the hive as well, parts of Hive in our honey. we wear so disappointed by the honey that is available here as, it's mixed with other honey or sugar or things like that to sell it in big amounts. And that is also one of the drawbacks, of mad as it is only found in limited amount and to scale it or to commercialized it is really difficult. So we prefer to, invest in other business rather than just thinking about, commercializing this unique career products by mixing it or doing any unethical things mm-hmm. I would like to say that if anyone, anyone loves farming or organic products, Nepal is the best place to come sure. We are so rich in this kind of products and no, we live in Katmandu, but, the Himalayan reasons, the, the people. Even we are so inspired, the, the warmth, the love they give, the strength they have, it's so amazing to witness that. And I would like to call off all of the viewers to Nepal and witness our unique cultures, unique, foods and enjoy our taste. We'll be happy to solve you guys, and I wanna thank you, Hannah, for having us, in this session. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you for joining me and sharing a little bit about it we'll definitely stay in touch and we'll come and visit we would love to have you guys here. Yeah, it'd be awesome. Thank you, Anna. Bye. You take care. Thank you. Talk to you later. Bye.

31:22

If you two thought climbing a handmade bamboo ladder, barefoot, bare hands to interact with the world's largest honeybees is an insane story. Then you'll have to check out the photos of it that I've posted on social media. the beekeeping that you may be used to thinking of, especially if you're from the US is in boxes. They're almost like livestock in the us. The bees that we bee keep for honey are not even native to this area. They're European. They push out native pollinators, so this is a totally different thing. They are hunting for the bees that are naturally in that extreme remote area. And of course, as you heard, it's pretty dangerous for them to do. It got me thinking a lot after this interview about how we can balance. Production with how much the land actually wants to give. I just think of how many places throughout agriculture, throughout the world are we really trying to push the limits of nature and produce, produce, produce, meet the demand, make all the money, and it's wreaking havoc on the environment and like in this case, it's hurting the populations. Just food for thought. Thank you for listening to another episode. Remember to check out those posts on social media and I hope you guys have a great week.