The SoundQ Garage
Tech talk for the DIY car audio enthusiast that care about sound quality
The SoundQ Garage
Chasing Sonic Perfection: When to DIY and When to Hire Pros Ep.2 with Mike Buononato
What happens when passion for exceptional car audio collides with real-world installation challenges? In this revealing conversation with Mike Buononato, we explore the complex relationship between DIY enthusiasm and professional expertise in the pursuit of sonic perfection.
Fresh from the SVR competition with its 52 competing vehicles, Mike shares his astonishment at how uniquely each system interpreted "accurate sound reproduction." His experience auditioning the Riven center channel processor across multiple vehicles reveals how this technology creates consistent listening experiences from every seat—something previously difficult to achieve in automotive environments.
The heart of our discussion examines Mike's contrasting experiences: the disappointment of a professional installation that fell short during the pandemic versus the satisfaction of his current Volvo build that combines shop expertise with personal involvement. His journey reveals that the most rewarding path might be neither purely DIY nor completely hands-off, but rather a collaborative approach that leverages professional knowledge while maintaining personal control.
We dive deep into the unsung hero of car audio: sound deadening. "Getting the car to that level is almost harder than the actual install of the speakers," Mike explains, detailing how eliminating resonances creates the foundation for everything that follows. This often-overlooked step separates good systems from exceptional ones, regardless of component quality or installation cost.
Whether you're considering your first upgrade or planning your next competition vehicle, this conversation offers practical wisdom about researching before buying, choosing the right platform, and finding trustworthy partners for your audio journey. Most importantly, it celebrates the collaborative spirit of the car audio community, where even competitors willingly share knowledge and support each other's passion for extraordinary sound.
Join us at Hudson Valley Regional on May 30th next year to experience this community firsthand and hear what's possible when enthusiasm meets expertise.
welcome everybody to episode two of the sound cue podcast. Today I have mike, and I hope I don't butcher your last name. Is it bononatoato? That's perfect.
Speaker 2:How you doing.
Speaker 1:I got it. I got it right off the first shot. Yes, you did. I'm doing good, Mike. How you doing? Keeping cool today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, I mean what is it? 91 degrees here in lovely New York. It went from raining for seven months straight to blistering Phoenix level heat. But you know what I'm working from home? It's nice and cool in here, so life's pretty good, Nice Sweet.
Speaker 1:So you just got back from SBR, correct? I did yes.
Speaker 2:I did. And how was that? Sbr is fantastic, man. I have to say I have such a good time there. I think part of that is because my expectations are not about really the competition side of things. You know, it's nice to have some of the most amazing judges and, of course, some of the top cars in the entire nation all present at one time. That's fantastic. So I definitely acknowledge, like, the importance and scale of the event. But for me it's one of the few chances that all my buddies are in the same place at the same time for an entire weekend and we get to hang out, have a great time, talk, smack, listen to each other's systems, kind of mess around and then meet new people and kind of expand the friendship group kind of thing. And every year, without fail, that's what it's been for me. I get to meet some amazing people, listen to some killer systems, you know, and if at the end of the day I, you know, walk away with a trophy or something great. If not, no worries, I still had a blast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what's great about these get togethers you get to meet new people, you get to hear some amazing cars, you get to sometimes even get some nuggets with their ideas, and you know, because sometimes you know, you see a lot of cars and people are doing the kind of the same recipe over and over again, but then once in a while you see somebody change it up and you're like, oh, I didn't know I can do that.
Speaker 2:This was definitely a change up here. Um, I missed last year, but I had been the previous three or four. So coming back this year, I definitely noticed that there was a change in the air. I think everybody to a T stepped up quite a bit from where I last saw their cars. So I was a bit on a mission. Just on a little side note, I wanted to listen to every ribbon car that I could get my hand on, because I mean that's something for me that I would love to try to tackle in the very near future. So, yeah, I mean, so I'm like okay, if we have some of the best in the nation and if they happen to have a Riven installed and it's ready to rock, yeah, I'm sitting in that car Like I want to hear how this thing could be, and I tell you it did not disappoint Nice, I think. I sat in four separate vehicles that had Rivens and to a T, no matter what seat I was in, I was floored. So that alone huge, huge, huge win for me.
Speaker 1:So the Riven DSP? What is it? Why don't you let people know what the Riven is, so the people that don't know what it is? Sure?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely. Riven is a center channel extractor. It goes prior to your DSP and amplifier and it redirects the appropriate sound to your center. So you need, like a center channel, an actual, you know, speaker array there, uh, and then diverts the remaining left, right wherever it needs to be.
Speaker 2:So I had been counseled in the past like hey, you know, you got to be a little mindful of that because of how much music is being directed to center, you're going to need to be careful with speaker selection because either the larger the speaker or the lower into the frequency that that speaker can go, the better because of the depth of sound that's being put there. So it might not be something where you want to drop like a three inch mid and have that trying to carry the load, because you're going to be missing like quite a bit of the information. So that was a bit of the adage going into it. But then I have to tell you I I heard several systems, everything from literally that exact three inch mid example all the way up to a six and a half, six and a half coincidental driver in the center.
Speaker 2:They both sounded really really good. So again, tuning like the implementation, how you're, you know, how you set up your system is probably more so the key than speaker size. Because I mean, let's face it, how many people have a center channel area that can take an eight inch woofer Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course I think.
Speaker 2:the reality is it's going to be small so yeah, I mean, there's like nobody, unless you're customizing your entire dash or you know starting from scratch or you know something like that. So it was kind of nice for me, you know, to be able to see, like, okay, different drivers can go here, you can still achieve a great sound. I don't know if it's I mean it's not at the at the level yet of like a single seat tune that has that just hits different. But if you want pretty much everybody in any seat to have a have an amazing tune, that's within like 90% of that. This is a pretty cool, you know, it's a pretty cool little piece of equipment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've heard a lot about it. I heard it on one of the podcasts and I was like that can't work, that's impossible, there's no how can they?
Speaker 2:you know that voodoo.
Speaker 1:But then I, you know, I hear more and more, basically, people you know giving it the thumbs up and saying, yeah, this thing's pretty amazing, and from reputable people, you know, not just from somebody who you think is trying to upsell it. You start to get curious. But my, what I'm curious about is because normally, the way, the classic way that we tune with rue or with you know, if you have a helix dsp or any other of the you know 40 other dsps that are out there with the ribbon, I imagine that you tune differently, correct? Because now you have a center channel. Do you know more or less what the process is to get the best sound out of a ribbon when you're using a ribbon? Because I imagine that you're not going to tune like normal, like the single seat.
Speaker 2:So I can tell you that you're dead on Now. The logistics and exactly how you go about doing that I haven't tackled yet. That's something that is still in the works for me, but I've been reading up on it and I think, in layman terms, the way I'm kind of looking at it is yeah, you're right, you're not setting it up to this dead center tune. You're almost setting up in the driver's seat, you're making left center your center, and then when you sit in the passenger seat, you're creating a different triangle and you're making right center your center, and then when you merge the two, you get kind of two interacting centers in a way. So it's really interesting how it does it Now. I say that, by the way.
Speaker 2:I just told you what the overarching theory is how to get there. Yeah, that's definitely a tricky piece, because that's something I'm going to have to dive in and really take my time to learn. I know that's where the rubber hits the road. There was definitely a part of me that was somewhat hoping that it would be plug and play and I press a button and it does everything for me. That would be genius.
Speaker 1:Oh man, as you know, all things car audio.
Speaker 2:It's never that simple, of course. Yeah, it's going to be far more complicated, but then it makes it worth it, right, like if you know that the goal at the end here is to have this amazing sound from all seats and there is a path.
Speaker 1:once you do, you've kind of earned that oh man, it's like nothing that feels better, just dying to hear one I know that uh, I'm looking forward to it. At the last one of the last get-togethers, I think they gave one as a prize. If, uh, if memory uh serves me, right.
Speaker 2:so that was my get-together, that's right, so, yeah. So, yep, riven. Riven was the, the actual title sponsor of our event, and they gave away one of their units and it was custom engraved with the event on it. Super nice, and, if you recall, luke won that piece of equipment. Oh, okay, I asked him after the show, before he left to go back to Maine. I said, hey, just checking in, are you actually going to install that? And he's like yeah, I'm not really a center guy, like I'm a, I'm a single seat guy. I'm probably never, you know, going to install this. And I said, well, would you want to sell it? And he's like, absolutely. So we struck a deal and that's the ribbon that I now have.
Speaker 2:So I have my own show's ribbon that I bought from Luke and it's anxiously awaiting me finishing up the install, getting a proper center speaker arrangement know speaker arrangement in into my car and then seeing what the heck I can do with it. But that's, that's like a winter project so you have, you still have, um.
Speaker 1:Well, let everybody know what kind of car you have currently I have.
Speaker 2:So I have a. I have a 2020 volvo s90 that I've had since. Oh man, I've been competing with that car for five years now, I think yeah, just about five years. It's gone through a couple different iterations as I've gotten back into this sport, trying to re-figure out things that I like and how I like my systems to be and sound and all that. So my current iteration that I'm on now is probably my favorite of all of them, yeah, and it's really starting to get to where I want it to be and I'm having an absolute blast. That car I mean, she's got 80,000 miles on her. It's been fantastic and is such a wonderful platform for this. It's almost like it's tailor-made to have like tremendous width and great sound and all that, so I really couldn't be happier with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I noticed that, like Nick. Does Nick have the same model as you do, or is that a different model?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he has an S60. And they're essentially the same car from like a dashboard standpoint. I think mine is just a little bit longer and it gives the room. It gives the room more so in like the rear seat area so you can kind of stretch your legs a little bit more, and it has a little bit of a bigger trunk.
Speaker 2:But no, it's got the same exact setup as nick yeah, he's, they look, he's definitely a lot braver than I and he, you know, pulled his dash out and put mids in the corners and yeah he's. He's willing to slice more than I am. I'm a uh I I don't um compete in those classes. Yeah, I try to stick to more of like an OEM mod. That's just more my passion. I like trying to get the best out of what I'm given and see where that takes me until I maximize that and then I'll figure something else out. But that's been a fun journey for me. I just love that challenge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are levels to this, because some people will literally remove their dash, some people will just take everything out, they will cut holes on the floor underneath the seats and you know some, some of these guys will make their turn their cars into swiss cheese. All in the name of, totally of, of. Uh, you know that, perfect, chasing that last 5%, because I think most cars you can get up to 90, 95%, even in the stock location. It's those people that want that last 2, 3% that are, you know, that's where it starts to get expensive, because you're really getting into diminishing results, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 2:Well, you just nailed it because you have to know, going in like, what are you willing to do? Because you're going to be listening to other vehicles, where the price of the equipment is not a barrier for them Cutting up the car, they don't hesitate because they know what they're doing. They know exactly where they want that old to be, they know how to size it, they know how to make it safe. Do all these things to achieve these incremental gains. But when you're chasing the best of the best and you're competing in the upper categories, it's kind of like what you have to do. That's almost like table stakes at this point. Yeah, that's almost like table stakes at this point. Yeah, if you're, if you're punching in the lower classes more stock, you know stock. Like you know it's not quite as uh crazy a need to do all those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just don't have the heart to cut a car. Man, I just can't do it. There's something about it for me. It's like when I do that, like I'm going to own this car all the way until death. Yeah, because I could never sell that to another person. I mean, I don't know if that affects. You know if it's going to rust or not, or you know this, that and the other. I would be worrying about that. My brain is not wired to be able to handle that. I'll tell you what. So, yeah, so again, you know, you know, you kind of have to know what kind of SQ hobbyist are you? Yeah, you know. Are you somebody who's going to do anything it takes to be at the absolute pinnacle, or I'm not that I'm definitely more like no. I'd rather enjoy within the limits of my vehicle and my abilities, on a reasonable budget.
Speaker 1:So I've heard your car several times and I think, even with the stock locations, I think your car Ryan's car, certain cars just lend themselves towards what I call like a sound cue type car, cause you guys have, you know, a wide dash, you guys have plenty of room for speakers. So some cars, you don't have to cut the floor, you don't have to. You know, I don't want to discourage people out there, all the do it yourselfers that are like oh, I'm not cutting my floor and it's like no selfers that are like oh, I'm not cutting my floor and it's like no, some cars, some cars don't need that.
Speaker 1:You know, certain cars you know like, like the volvos and the mercedes and the uh the camrys, they, they, they take well to uh, to modifications, to uh like oem the mercedes. I know some of those have the uh the mid-base already in the floor. Some cars have the mid base underneath the, like the bmws have uh eight inch woofers under the seats. So not every car has to get cut up no, I mean.
Speaker 2:So you kind of want to choose your vehicle right, like if you can, and I I chose the volvo specifically because, like the bowers and Wilkins system that comes stock in those, they spent a long time working on keeping the mid and tweeter very close together high up on the door panels. They're somewhat on access towards the driver and passenger, even though you, I'm sorry, towards the driver, even though you don't realize it, because they're buried behind grills, and they just did a lot of things technically sound and it showed they've been. They've been rated one of the top. Um, well, for a stock system, one of this, one of the top sounding stock systems that like you can purchase, like you know what. If I start with that in a semi-luxury vehicle because it is a volvo, it's not I don't think that's like super high luxury, but it does have triple laminated glass, it does have sound deadening. It is a little bit of a more solid platform to start with. So if you had sound engineers in there doing their job properly positioning the OEM speakers, and then the platform itself uses pretty heavy steel for safety and sound deadening and triple laminated glass and all those things, you have a pretty good platform to start with.
Speaker 2:Now that doesn't mean you've got to go out and break the bank. I mean I bought it like certified pre-owned. It was not, it's not a extremely expensive vehicle. Plus, it's affordable and nobody buys those anymore. So it really wasn't a whole lot of money and it was reasonable. And I mean, nowadays, shoot even like Honda Accord, like yours and stuff. I mean these are wonderful cars, they're extremely well-built, they're great platforms and there's a lot that you can do with them.
Speaker 2:And I'll say this, coming back from SVR it hammered this thing home for me. Every single system that I listened to at that event and it had to be over I was closing in on about 20 different systems that I listened to. They're all different. They're all different. So you would think, wow, this is an SQ competition where reproducing the music as accurately as possible is the goal. So I'm probably going to sit and all these vehicles are going to sound the same, because that's the goal, right?
Speaker 2:Well, there wasn't two that sounded alike in any way. And I'm talking same tuners, but different vehicles, different times, different equipment and different styles. What people prefer in their reproduction of music. It's all different. So I think would people kind of get a little bit hung up on scores from judges and things I don't know. I mean, if everybody is so different, it comes down to you know you might as well do what you like, because you're going to be listening to it the other 364 days a year, right, exactly, and it becomes a little bit of a preference contest a little bit Right.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, I mean, accuracy is still accuracy, but uh, everybody's different. Yeah, and I'll tell you, mine definitely is, and I tell people that when they sit in the car you know just where I'm at right now. You had mentioned Ryan's car. Ryan is technically more efficient with his sound. His sound signature is more accurate, it's more detailed, it's more defined. His center has better imaging than mine. His sound signature is more accurate, it's more detailed, it's more defined. His center has better imaging than mine. His clarity. He's been dialing that system in for a while, a little bit longer than me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's his focus and it's like a razor blade it just cuts. I mean it is really good, yeah, really really good, with still having life to it. It still sounds musical, which I love. It's not like a clinical sound Mine. It starts leaning a little bit closer to like a virtual reality ride. It is super wide, it's kind of like enveloping and engaging and it's just a wild thing to kind of hear. It's probably not the most accurate thing in the world, but it sure is fun to listen to. So I kind of love that.
Speaker 2:So, and that's what I bring and hopefully someone else hears that and goes wow, that's my cup of tea too. If not, oh well, there's plenty of other cars and you've got to find what it is that you like. I think that's one of the beauties of tea too. If not, oh well, you know, there's plenty of other cars and you've, and you've got to find what, what it is that you like. I think that's that's one of the beauties of our hobby. It's not all the same thing, it's not cookie cutter by any stretch, and it really gives us the ability to flex like creative muscle and show not just how we like things to sound but look like how that install is and you know different levels of like equipment choice and it's just so many ways to like personalize and I don't know about you, but having fun with my car has always been a wonderful past oh yeah, some people are showy.
Speaker 1:You can, you can go, you, you know, I don't what'd you say, there was 20 plus cars there yeah, uh, so at svr I think 52, oh wow, total.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's huge. I think I listened to almost 20 cars, but there was 40. So the 46 or 40 I think it was 48 in just the shootout, meaning not, uh, not like the orcs yep and I think he had I think larry had over 52 cars there.
Speaker 2:Like all in for everything, that is a big event yeah, that is, I mean it's crazy, yeah, how they orchestrated over two days and keep the judges rotating and it really is a work of art. They've they've got it down to a science and it's. It's a lot of fun to be a part of yeah.
Speaker 1:So when it comes to those cars, it's funny because you see some cars who are all like very stealthy and all the equipment you could barely see it and then some cars have like neon, led and plexiglass and actuators and motors and different stuff like that and it's.
Speaker 1:It's just all dependent on the car owner how flashy they want to be, or you know where they want to allocate their money. Because so, you know, let's take a car that has like a lot of show to it with leds and motorization. That's not going to really add to the sound, but it sure does look like. You know, it's eye candy, you know, and you're like, wow, that looks amazing because our eyes see it. So we, we still enjoy that. Look, you know, and then you get the guy who's like you know, that's not my forte, but I can appreciate that. But I like this false floor here where you open the trunk and you don't see anything and then you got all these amps underneath. That's where the magic happens. So it's funny how some of us like that showy, some of us like that showy, some of us like that stealth and some guys are in the middle where it's like showy and stealthy at the same time so it's just ironic house.
Speaker 1:but you know, for the people out there I want to say you don't have to go with led this and led that and plexiglass that sometimes that money is better spent on better components or better installation or something like that. So just keep that in mind when you're when you're designing your system. So why don't you tell people a little bit about your background and how you got into SoundQ per se and what led you down this journey? You know just a quick little two or three minute bio on your on your journey and what got you here uh.
Speaker 2:So when I was younger, probably about 16 years old, my brother's best friend started a um, a car audio shop right out of his driveway. Um, he was older, I just I would be over there anyway and he started working on some pretty amazing cars and I'm a little bit older, so some of the cars that he was getting in was like a 300Z twin turbo when they first came out there like the mid nineties, like, like, like Porsche 911s. He was getting higher end cars and we were putting in some really fun loud systems in them and that hooked me, man, like that was fun to work on. Driving down the road, top down system blaring. There's just nothing better than that.
Speaker 2:I went off to culinary school, kind of pursued that whole angle and that's what I do for my job now. But I never really left the car audio. I would always tinker with something in my own cars. I'd have a little system, a little something. You know, a couple amps, a couple of this, never DSP and going crazy, just a couple of things. Now you flash forward all the way to about 2019, I think it was just prior to COVID. I decided you know what I've been doing pretty good in life. I've been reading up on all these crazy new systems that are coming out. They just looked absolutely amazing. I want to dip my toe in that pool and see where that takes me.
Speaker 1:And man what a choice.
Speaker 2:Because from that moment forward, see where that takes me. And man, what a choice Cause. From that moment forward, when I drove down to Nick Apicella shop and took a listen to his Honda Civic at the time and his partner there, um, kevin Mullings, had he? He had his Prius and I don't know if you ever got to hear that but those two cars just sounded, man, they sound fantastic yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:Actually, the first time I met you um, I don't remember the guy's name, but it was at that get together during covid, what at that guy's house that had the goats. Do you remember that? Oh, that's right. Yeah, we were all the way out, like cape cod yeah, yeah, yep, cape cod. And you had a passport yeah, passport, yep, yep. I remember that. And you had the element. Right, I had the honda element. Yeah, it was like a toaster and that thing was so cool I still like that car.
Speaker 1:Oh it was. I love that car to this day it's. It was one of the cars that I wanted from when it first came out. It was just really cool, practical, like like nichey kind of car, like it's got a. It's got a cult following to this day oh, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, if they ever brought that back, I would be like first in line, yeah to buy that thing, that it would be perfect.
Speaker 1:So it had so much room and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do a sound cue system in it. Oh, what a major mistake was that? That was basically you know what Honda they don't. They don't put any sound treatment, they use the thin metal that they could get away with. The thing was so noisy. I think I put probably three layers of sound treatment and it was still still rattling.
Speaker 2:Not enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it wasn't enough. It wasn't a practical SQ car, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:That was my passport, which is why I got out of that vehicle, because no matter what I did, it was just constantly chasing rattles. I mean, I don't mind doing sound deadening, I actually kind of enjoy it, but I like to do it once. I don't want to keep going back chasing rattle after rattle because that, if there's one thing I've learned over the last six years of being back in this game, if you don't take care of that, like resonance you're, you're dead. Like it'll, it'll pull your imaging, it'll, you know, the sub will pull your head back. You can, you know you start localizing everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's one of the single most important things, oh God yeah, really hard to do.
Speaker 2:I mean you can cheat your way around it as much as you can. I mean you could try to get your mid-bass out of the doors, put them down in the kicks to try to, so that way that door panel isn't resonating all over the place Like you could do it. But still, if you have any type of sub-base energy going on in your car, it's going to find the weakest link and it's going to rattle it. We need to constantly chase it, chase it, chase it, address it. So with my Volvo, now that I've had it for a bunch of years, I mean that it finally is at a point where I've been able to quell pretty much all of that and that has really helped to start actually tuning and building a good baseline where I'm not just trying to cover up on flaws, I can actually just tune the car for, you know, tuning sake exactly it's been.
Speaker 1:It's been a game changer, yeah, because you have a nice dead, basically like a dead environment. That's what you want. You want an environment absolutely it can put its best foot forward, so to speak. And basically, if you have a buzz over here or a rattle over here or something, it's going to add to the sound. It's just going to drive you crazy that you have, you know, thousands of dollars or x amount of money in this car and it's rattling and you're like what the hell?
Speaker 2:oh, no, totally. I mean, and that's and that's all part of the strategy too. Right, like you've got to know what your, what your base is. You know, if you're starting like in my case, if I'm starting with a honda passport, I might not want to put two ohm um mid-base drivers with 120 plus watts to each playing at 60 hertz and down in my doors yep, like that is gonna you're gonna be chasing that for a very long time. You know what I mean. Like you might want to rethink that and be like, hey, I gotta understand what it is I have. Maybe I need to look at this a little bit differently. Like maybe I do need to think about kicks or not putting so much power to that driver and adding a front woofer, or just like how you're gonna attack the layout of your system.
Speaker 1:You kind of have to know that environment, that that you're in and then, so that way you don't get trapped by that inherent weakness that you're constantly trying to fix yeah, and by by that token, um, basically, if you knock down or kill all those resonances and whatnot, then basically you can start kind of like baking that cake and getting your system all situated in one. I would almost say that getting the car to that level is almost harder than the actual install of the speakers. You know what I mean the, the behind the scenes stuff that people don't see. You know, people see the, the speakers and the nice grill and, oh wow, he integrated that. They don't see the wiring and the and the, the, the, the different types of material that we use to get those resonances or things to stop buzzing, or. You know, there's just a lot of work that goes into an actual SQ car.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and it's all under wraps, right. So it's crazy, because I had pretty much zero patience from about my mid-30s on younger right I think that's normal on the top. I would rush to get to that point. I wanted to see what it looked like and get it in there and hear it playing like everything else was almost like just in my way. I wanted to get past it. And then, man, like I never thought it would come to me but I started getting a little bit of patience and saying you know what, I don't need to do it right away. Like I can actually attack this and spend an entire day just on my front door panels doing nothing but sound deadening. I mean working butyl into all the creases and putting CLD and just really like taking my time and getting it done right before I ever touched the speaker on it and thankfully, I mean because you definitely need patience in this.
Speaker 2:At least I think, because if you start rushing stuff, you start getting sloppy and then you and then you miss things and when you button up everything, you just ended up having to take it all back apart again and doing it all over again, and that's frustrating. So having some patience definitely helps.
Speaker 1:It is. It is because when you rush things and, like you said, you got to take the door panel back apart, it's like, if you think about it right, when you're taking that door panel apart two, three, four or five times, you're making that part looser and looser, like you're basically like deteriorating the panel. You know what I mean. Like um a lot of times when.
Speaker 2:So listen to this, though, shout out to volvo portion a couple others.
Speaker 1:No panel clips oh yeah, that's right. You had told me that before they've got those.
Speaker 2:They've got hooks on the back and, man, like you've gotta lean in on the door panel while you're trying to hang it and pull down to get them to like engage, they almost suck the panel onto the metal frame. Nice they're, they just eat, like giving back great strength, my honda, those door clips. I felt like every time I popped the panel I probably should put brand new clips on, because the clips would just get mangled, oh yeah, on their way out sometimes they would pop and fly to god knows where funny enough I actually bought like 80 of them.
Speaker 1:I bought a bag. They're super cheap. They're like five cents or ten cents. So I'm like you know what, let me buy like 80 of these. I literally have a bag of those clips because they're basically like a one-time use thing. So it's like when you put the door panel back together it doesn't go back together as tightly and as taut as it was from the factory.
Speaker 1:Oh no, you know you're chasing a lot of rattles. It's maddening when you have all this money and all this time invested and then you hear a tiny little buzz. You're like, oh my, god, god, I'm gonna pull my hair out oh, I know, you know it's funny, because I would.
Speaker 2:I would bet good money that not only do you have a whole bag of brand new clips, that you also, once you put the new clips in, you're putting like tessa tape on each one, yeah, so that when it does engage it's not rattling around, even like within its own hole. Yep, right, yeah, that's that, that's what you have to do. I mean, that's just another little detail, like another little thing that can really pay pretty big dividends if you take your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly All those little details do matter because once they add up, all those little grains of sand lead to a beach. That's the way I look at it and yeah, although the little things matter, the details matter. Especially when your car is getting judged or when your car you know you have expensive drivers, you may as well put them in the best scenario that they could perform in. You just don't want to take some, like you know, some accutans or focals and just slap them in there.
Speaker 1:you know, no sound deadening no, you're you're just gonna throw them in there, like you swap them out with the oem ones. It's like some people think that they could do that and get great sound. That's not how it works sound.
Speaker 2:That's not how it works. Oh no, I mean I I don't know about you, but my philosophy is, like, the more expensive the um equipment is speaker or otherwise, like, everything starts to matter, right, if you have high-end speakers, well then whatever is before them should be of equal value. So your amplifier should be pretty good, right, like really good dynamics. It shouldn't have noise, it should be pretty high-end, and then before that it should have a pretty good digital sound processor and before that a pretty clean source and it really matters there. So you know, if you want to punch up on the value of like the equipment, that even more so means that everything in that chain should start being an equal tier.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just to begin to start to get the best out of it. Just to begin to start to get the best out of it. They're not super expensive because you can slap them into anything and they will always sound good Like it's not. That's not why they're expensive. They're expensive because the engineering that went in them just like we were talking about before, guys were cutting up their cars to chase every 10th of a point those, that type of equipment can get you there. It can get you that level of detail that you've never, ever heard before. But you're going to have to treat that with like a level of respect and put everything ahead of it. You know that that matters so that they can get to that point.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:If that makes any sense to that point exactly.
Speaker 1:If that makes any sense unless it's rambling, I mean no, it makes perfect sense so originally we never got into it, but the original theme of this show uh, you got to forgive me, folks out there in in internet land. This is only my second episode, so we're trying to get our wind. But, um, basically, I wanted this show the theme to be about uh do-it-yourselfer versus uh using a shop. I know that, um, from talking to you in the past that you had a little bit of a snag snafu with your with your honda passport, right.
Speaker 1:Um, we won't get into too many details or drop any names like that, but I just wanted to, uh, basically kind of go over the pros and cons of using a shop versus doing it yourself, okay, so, basically that's a great topic, yeah yeah, I, because I was thinking you know who better to talk to than to the mic, because you basically had your Honda done by, basically by a reputable shop, right, but it didn't turn out quite as to your expectations for lack of a better word, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you nailed it on the head. So we had said before back in about 2019 is when I started to get back into this. Not having ever touched a digital sound processor, it's the first time I ever heard them. Um, I knew it was a little bit um above my head, yeah, and with how I was super busy at work and all that, I'm like you know what. Let me interview a couple shops, a couple of some of the top shops in in my area here here on the coast, and eventually go with somebody. So, as I said before, I had listened to nick's car, um, and then I took a trip a little bit further south and I got to listen to another car and see the detail of the um installation was just second to and it was one of the top people I would arguably one of the top people still in this business.
Speaker 2:A little bit unfortunate for me, covid hit right after, or no, two weeks before, I was scheduled to drop off the passport, two weeks before I was scheduled to drop off the passport. So you know, with everything kind of shutting down and all that stuff, what had happened is I kind of got a call saying you know, a lot of the jobs that were originally scheduled to be at the shop went away and my vehicle was kind of sitting there and it was a hey, do you mind if we all kind of work on it type thing. And originally I was hiring like not the whole shop to do it but one of the key people at the shop to do it. But I felt like you know what, like everybody deserves it. You know this is, you know, a pro shop. So absolutely let's, let's, let's, go ahead and, you know, do this thing.
Speaker 2:And that that was, that was a mistake yep because the level of the installation wasn't up to what I had researched. And, um, when I got the vehicle back, it had rattles and things weren't installed the way I like them to be, and, um, I really struggle with that. That was a struggle, and, interestingly enough, I got frustrated to the point where I did drive down to nick's shop and say, hey, can you listen to this? Like, is this just me? Like, am I being overly like anal about this whole thing? Or is this really, you know, workmanship that should have been better. And when he looked at it, you know even when the that should have been better. And when he looked at it, you know, even when the cost he's like well, I understand, like you know why they did this that the other thing he's like, but the sound is not, is not where it should be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I gotta tell you that was a moment with you know, probably for me, what I spent on the car is nowhere near what other people spend at shops, but it was a lot of money for me, yeah, and I remember thinking like, yeah, I'm never doing this again, I'm never doing this again. Um, I will say, though, I'm glad that that wasn't the case, I'm glad that I put the passport, uh, back to stock and moved on and picked up the volvo and said I want to be a little bit more deliberate and go back at this and kind of take it more into my own hands. I will say when the Volvo first got built, nick helped me out tremendously on that, so it was, I would call that, an 85% shop build between him and Matt Kim. Yeah, putting that card together with me, I did a few things for it but they did kind of the majority. But then when they gave me that platform, I took it from there.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:They've been helping me ever since because we're friends. But I was able to kind of get more of the DIY aspect in since then. But I was able to kind of get more of the DIY aspect in since then and then over this past year when I completely reset the entire vehicle back to zero and built it back up again. That was essentially like all me. So I think that there can be a good mix. If you pick the right shop, you can have a wonderful experience. But I think it's like anything. You can have a wonderful experience, but I think it's like anything.
Speaker 2:If you, if you want a job done in your house right like even if it's painting a wall, taking the time to learn how to do that you're probably going to put more care into it because it's your home than anyone else. Plus, it's not reasonable to expect that a shop is going to work out every little detail and resonance and issue with a car. They would have to have it for months and that's unrealistic and wickedly expensive. Yeah, so their job is to kind of get you going, maybe jump start the platform, and if you do it like that and have pros do the basics, there's nothing wrong with that. That kind of gives you a wonderful baseline to kind of jump in and work from there. Or you're going to go ground up and it's going to take you a little bit of a longer like learning curve typically. Yeah, I think both have merit, yeah.
Speaker 1:So some of the pros what a shop is basically like, what you, what happened with with nick is you get the support system and you get the. You get to come back and say, hey man, yeah, I gotta work this out. But also some of the cons is the cost. But with the do-it-yourselfer, some of the pros are that you're gonna know that that it's done right. It's going to take you a little longer. You might need to learn how to fabricate a little bit.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I recommend out there to the do-it-yourselfer is is this something you think you could take on? Are you handy with tools? Are you handy with fabrication, fabrication skills? Do you have fabrication skills? Do you have a network of friends or a network, a shop that you could work with? Because let me tell you, there's a lot of shops that won't allow what you do with nick, where you're kind of got your hands in there and you're doing things, and some shops are like I'm not working on that car, he's gonna mess up my work, you know. You know I'm not saying all shops are like that, but some are.
Speaker 2:So there's pros and cons to the do-it-yourselfer side and going the pro side with a shop man, I, I, I know completely that I am one lucky, lucky dude, because you just nailed it. I, if I had a shop, I don't know if I would want a diy guy hanging around in my shop. Um, you know, working on their vehicle, like that kind of doesn't make a lot of sense, yeah, so I try not to abuse that. You know I don't ask for free things. I don't show up just to like start working on my car. You know what I mean. Like, if I'm there, it's because I'm paying for a service.
Speaker 2:So there are parts of things that if I want to learn how to do, um, when I went to do uh front sub here in the volvo, I knew I wanted to work with matt kim on that and have him show me some of like the 3d scanning work that he is now, you know, doing uh in order to kind of chase what I was trying to do in there. So we worked for two weekends in a row to get that thing sorted and where it's at, and I was just as hands-on through the whole process. I tried to do as much as I possibly could in there so that Matt wouldn't be having to do everything right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But so also that I can learn and I'm lucky because there's a friendship there. It's not just a shop. So I think you have to be careful because you don't want to abuse the relationship. And that goes with anything, that goes with other DIY friends, that goes with shops. I think that's just good social practice, right yeah?
Speaker 1:of course.
Speaker 2:Understand that people and their talent. It took them time to get to that point. So if you're looking to learn from that, you might need to compensate for that, and it's not always with money. You know you can compensate by helping them in other areas that maybe they're not as strong in. Or, you know, picking up lunch and doing some nice things like you know, making sure that it's not all take, yeah, that you're giving back to, and again, that's basic social standards. But I got to tell you in our hobby I do see like people are so hungry for the information that they forget sometimes that when they're just taking and not giving back, uh, that can come across kind of kind of tough for some people yep.
Speaker 1:So I think this is my opinion is that people like matt, kim, nick, kevin, just to name a few, they make it look easy. When you see a front sub, yeah, they really do from like nick or matt, kim or kevin, they it literally looks like it's like it's oem, it's it's just like a work of art, and they make it look so easy that you got the diyers out there that are like, oh, I can do that, I can do that, that, that I can do that. It's like no, you can't. These guys have years and years of experience, years of of, of, uh, trial and error and trying different things and you know, and they just didn't get to where they are overnight. Some people, hey, they have that talent and they, they learn those skills pretty quickly. Most people, you know, they learn as they go, and so to have a diy or come in and be like, oh, hey, you know, the other thing is, too, that you got to trust your shop. So if you come, in and you got.
Speaker 1:You got ideas and you're like, hey, I think I want this front sub, but I want it firing this way, I want it firing up or I want it firing forward, and your installer tells you I don't think that's going to work. You need to trust your installer and you, I don't think that's going to work. You need to trust your installer and, you know, trust their instinct or trust their skills to get that job done, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like absolutely. And it's interesting because I knew how to fiberglass, right? I think we've all dabbled in it or given it a shot, right.
Speaker 1:But I didn't know how to do it well, I tell you, oh, it stinks, man.
Speaker 2:Does it stink that like gets in your nose? I mean anybody who's done it. You know that smell, I don't even have to say it. You're smelling it right now as I'm talking about it. But in working with Matt over I think it was in january when we were doing that he's done so many like, I think I think you said before, like hundreds of cars. So he has a system everything down from the ratios you know that are, you know going into like the epoxy, you know like how much hardener and so on, to get it where it cures faster and stronger. Yeah, uh, how many layers, how you put those layers in, like all of it, all of it, every single bit of it, has a precision to it. And when you're chasing every little detail, man, do those matter? Because I I went in saying to Matt yes, I want a front woofer. However, I do not want to lose a millimeter of space.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, how did you accomplish that?
Speaker 2:Well, I had done research on my own. So this is where I think that the blend matters and shops will learn to appreciate you as an individual if you go the extra mile. Before I ever made that claim to Matt, I had done my own research. I had taken out the passenger seat in the Volvo, I had removed the carpet in that area and I had researched the entire area where that enclosure would go and I found that there was about four inches of foam padding behind the carpet where your feet, you know, go on that slant area. I had about four inches of carpet there to play with and I also had it's almost like a dummy box that was installed up against the firewall on an angle that gave me another let's call it eight inches, like six to eight inches of space. Oh, wow. So if I could, yeah, so I told him look, and I had pictures, I had documented everything.
Speaker 2:I'm like, if I can relocate this piece of equipment over to the side area and remove the foam padding off the back of the carpet and take this, I think I can free up enough space to do a firewall, firing about a half a cube sealed uh, you know, sealed enclosure and put it on all the same angles and everything and lose absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2:You would never, ever know that it's in there, never. And when he looked at it he's like huh, show me. So I, you know, pulled the seat again, pulled the carpet, and when we took everything out and he looked at it he's like I'll be damned. You know, because that that Volvo chassis is shared with the uh, you know, with, like the XC90 and the S60, they have different levels of foam padding and things to kind of take up that space. I happen to be fortunate that I found that there's quite a bit of room just residing back there. So by tapping into that and like customizing that area, we were able to fiberglass and install that exact sealed enclosure, firewall firing and get it where you would never, ever know it looks bone stock, it doesn't eat up anything, that's impressive.
Speaker 1:It's so cool. That's awesome, so cool. I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I'm telling you it's badass. But that's where I think both can coincide, because that's really where we're trying to go right. I think every DIYer, you have a passion to want to do it yourself, but you wish you had a little bit more knowledge, yeah, to be able to do it better and faster. So then there's the shop owner who doesn't really want to deal with you because you're not just giving them a you know, a bigger check to do it all themselves, so you're not as enticing of a sale for them and like rightfully so. But that middle ground, if you can kind of prove yourself that you're as engaged and as interested more so than the other clients that they're working with and you're really chasing like SQ and quality sound and you want to represent them well too, I think that's where you can start to have an equal voice.
Speaker 2:But you do. You do have to do some work. You got to do some research, you got to map out your plan. You need a plan, like you need to be pretty solid in that and kind of stick to it. And when they see that, that you're, you're on a mission and you know what you want and you just want to learn how to do it better. That's different than someone comes in who doesn't really know what they want and is a bit flighty and cause they just know that's a recipe for like disaster. Yep, it's, it's, they're. They're going to be lending all this help and you're not really going to be satisfied.
Speaker 1:Oh, somewhere in the middle is probably a happy place, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, somewhere in the middle is probably happy place, right? Yeah? Well, I'm sure they have their share of nightmare customers and every, every shop does you know? But who knows, man, if you, you know, if you ever have like nick on, he might say, yeah, mike is a nightmare customer. I don't know. You think maybe that's possible. I really try to not be, but uh, I guess.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess we'll find out you know, it takes a kind of a special kind of weirdo to be into this level of sound cue and I think we're all kind of in that boat Because I like in shops like Nick's and Kevin's or any of these elite shops, these guys aren't doing deck and two or putting in like $40 speakers for somebody who wants better speakers in their, in their Hyundai Elantra, coming in and and and they just bought their Hyundai or Honda or you know, toyota, whatever. Hey, I want better speakers. Or my left speakers popped they, they don't, they don't do that.
Speaker 1:These are, I would almost liken them to like boutique specialty shops that are really like doing high-end stuff because, believe it or not, when I in the 90s, I used to be an installer and these the big jobs we used to lose money on them. They, they loved, uh, the deck and two, a cd player and and and two speakers, or deck and four. They call them in the alarms because, like anything else when you could crank it out fast, that's where they're making their money. Yep, so in in these shops?
Speaker 1:I could totally see that yeah, that that's where they made their money and with these shops, these they they're boutique customers. So it's like you know they have particular taste and people are coming in with high-end automobiles and you know you have to be on your A game. You know, because I've seen some of the cars that Nick works on and these are, you know, porsches, german cars you got.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, ferraris and the hundred thousand dollar Corvette. And it's like me, I'd be scared shitless to touch one of those cars you know, I don't even want to know what the door panel on a porsche costs, you know I don't have the guts to do that either.
Speaker 2:It's, it's. It's funny. You say that I admire that they. I think one of my favorite vehicles that those guys ever worked on was a Mercedes AMG coupe. So it was like a, it was like an S class coupe, that big one. Yeah, I mean that is. It's a stone cold stunner when you see it in person and it Well, of course the install was crazy and was beautiful and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:But to sit there and touch that car and start cutting up on panels and stuff to get it to be that amazing, I don't know if I have the guts for that. So you've got to have a pretty high level of competence to be able to do it. And that's why those shops exist for that higher tier customer. They just have such amazing knowledge to be able to do that and to do it flawlessly so that there's no issues. I mean, just think about it Integrating within that system so that everything works and it works well, from, like, the volume controls on the steering wheel to not having sound at startup, to everything just works. That's an art it really is. I mean that alone just like just handling, like the integration side in a you know, modern vehicle it might. That alone might be worth having a shop kind of help with yeah, exactly that's what's super difficult.
Speaker 1:That's what some of the diyers need to keep in mind that when you you know you're going to cut into your car, you don't know if there's some sort of like computer behind that panel. Um, a lot of the cars now have, like you know, the the all kinds of freaking electronic wizardry that that aid the driver and some might say that it's, it's too much these days because it's taking the skill out of driving.
Speaker 1:But you know they do it in the name of safety, but that you know like, because back earlier you were talking about how some people put speakers in the kick panels. Well, a lot of the newer cars now have all kinds of electronic stuff behind the kick panels.
Speaker 1:So, would a reputable shop. What they're going to do is they're going to relocate those electronics. They're going to find a way to mount those speakers in the kick panels, because they've done it, they've been there, done that. So when you're a DIYer, I don't want to discourage a DIYer.
Speaker 1:There's some of the best systems I've heard were from DIYers, and some of these guys that are big time installers started off as diyers but you gotta remember you know when you're bringing in a mercedes and you know you're liable to fry something that could end up being very expensive that's where somebody you know, one of those shops like that, that's where their knowledge comes in and they could do it correctly and safely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's that's kind of what you know. So I don't know if this is hitting the actual intent of the topic, but DIY shop pros and cons to each I'm a firm believer in it really again depends on on your use case. You know, if I own, if I'm lucky enough to own, like a lamborghini I don't know if I want to diy on that. I think that's something you know, just out of respect for the vehicle, uh, I'm probably gonna wanna have someone with expertise who's been there done that. Yeah, let them be now. You could diy a little bit after that.
Speaker 2:Right, you want to do some some tuning like some fabrication stuff like, but the, the baseline, like the integration, the basic install, the sound deadening things like that, yeah, you might want to enlist help from another. At least it probably has a higher probability that that would be a better way to go as opposed to, you know, like the way you and I started. I mean, if you're in a passport or an element or something a little bit more affordable, well, you, you, you could take a little bit more risk, I think, in something like that. Definitely, you know, you know, you know doing a door panel in a Honda product. It's not stupid, expensive, even brand new. Back from Honda again. So if you make a mistake, it isn't the end of the world.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I would not want to mess up a high-end car. So, yeah, so know your platform and where it is you're trying to go, and in some cases a shop would be absolutely fantastic and others it's a DOI. And then for me, somewhere in the middle is kind of where I've landed. Now I'm not shy about asking for help. I will say I think there's a big difference between internet help and actual help.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, big time help.
Speaker 2:Um, there's, that is a. That is a black hole for me and there's so many. I try not to do it. To be honest with you, man, Like if I, if I need information, I know who to go to who's going to?
Speaker 2:not lead me astray and I understand that in car audio it's not really black and white, so there's no perfect answer to every single question. It's different ways of doing things and so on, but just generally online trying to take a lot of that is really tough and it could add a lot more time and frustration. And I don't know about you like I do this to be happy.
Speaker 2:What I don't want to do is mess this up and have a bad understanding of what it is I'm trying to do and actually make things worse. So I've learned it the hard way. I think, as most of us have, that sometimes like less is more, like it's nice to read online and see posts and stuff like that, but I don't take that stuff to heart. I try to figure it out and do my own research or just reach out to those who I trust, who have been there, done that and that, and that is not just a shock. You know that. You know to bring it all back again, that would you know. That would be a Ryan to say hey, you know what are. What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 1:You know and then use the practical knowledge from an individual that has done that. Yeah, exactly, you always, you always, uh. There was a saying I I don't remember it now. It was something like uh uh. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from others' mistakes.
Speaker 2:There you go, I'm all about that. Yeah, let me tell you, I yeah I mean, maybe younger me was like yeah, I want to create everything from scratch and I want to own it and I want to be, you know, the one who invented all these things. And now it's like man, like if there's, if there's somebody who's more knowledgeable out there, you know, which there always is right. I am open to anything, like whoever has it, like I just want to, I just love it. Yeah, so we can talk like sound quality and I learn something more than win-win and hopefully I can do the same for others, and that's part of that. Give back, right, right, you know, as you like progress in your knowledge.
Speaker 2:I do think there's a little bit of a pay it forward obligation for you to give back, and that's probably the primary reason why I wanted to host a show. I wanted HVR to be a place for not just pros who had, you know, decades of experience, but also for those who are coming up and to give them not just a place to have a show but a place to actually win. So you know, if you go to a lot of shows now all the money rounds and, like the competition side, that's not org related, all the prizes and money that can be won, it's just a big pool of people. So here you are with your DIY semi-basic system going up against somebody with decades of experience, and whether or not the equipment is high end, it doesn't really matter. It's just who you're actually competing with has just so much more knowledge and it's not really a fair fight actually competing with has just so much more knowledge and it's not really a fair fight.
Speaker 2:So I felt like, okay, so my give back could be let's create a place where it's split up and the amateurs have a chance to win just as the pros do, and the prizes are equal One is not better than another because that incentivizes people to kind of move forward within the sport and want to learn more, and also it gives them a chance to be around pros and feel like they have a voice, so you can listen to their cars, learn from them, talk to them. Yeah, I mean having done that two years in a row now and we're going to do our third again next year. That will always be the core mission of that show and that's just one way that I look to give back and, you know, hopefully others are doing the same so for those that don't know what mike's talking about, hbr is basically hudson valley regionals and you started that like three years ago, correct I started last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, last year was actually the first one. Okay, um and uh, this year was our second, so it's only been around for two years oh, okay, I thought there was one previously. No, no, no, this is you know, we've only had the two. Uh, I'd like to say that we're that we're getting better at it, we're, we're getting things dialed in. Yes, our weather could ever be good, as you know. It would be probably nice. The weather's been a bit of a kicker the last two years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, last year was super hot and this year was raining all day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh God, and it wasn't just raining, that was like Noah Ark level of rain right, yeah, yeah, I should have brought a raft. You felt like you could get taken away.
Speaker 1:Man could get taken away, man that was tough.
Speaker 2:That was a tough, tough spot, but you know everybody. So then that just means that next year is going to be great. I mean, you know then, then that means next year is going to be 70 degrees and beautiful next year is going to be tornadoes don't say that, so you're probably right once again for any do di wires out there, or even pros alike, come down to mike.
Speaker 1:Why don't you tell the people a little bit about hvr where it is, when it is. Let them let everybody know what you're, uh sure.
Speaker 2:So we just announced on facebook a couple days ago that the third annual um sound quality event, which had uh as the um, as the pro am shootout that I was just talking about before that, is going to be held on I think it's may 30th, that's a saturday of of next year in the same spot. It's been for two years. It's in a beautiful park, setting on top of the hill, wonderful views, plenty of places to put your car park, and I'd like to say we probably have the best food of any event across the nation. I'd hang my hat on that. We do something different a little bit every year. Food comes with the price of admission and let me tell you, it is worth it. So, yeah, we, we try to get top judges, top orgs, do our pro-am shootout. We've got some sponsors and we're growing every year. And we try to get top judges, top orgs, do our pro-am shootout. We've got some sponsors and we're growing every year and we love to have everybody we can, from all walks of life, everybody's welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw cars there that were still in their baby stages. That door panels weren't even put in yet, to cars that were just full-blown. You know, uh, svr winners.
Speaker 2:So you know what, and it's. It's actually exciting for the judges too, like I remember talking, you know, you know, with them. It's like to be able to fit in a vehicle that is on its way right, yeah. And then they hear it again the next year and they're like, oh my god, like the changes to fit in a vehicle that is on its way right. And then they hear it again the next year and they're like, oh my God, like the changes that were made in that vehicle. I mean, this is night and day.
Speaker 2:This person is growing in the sport at like an exponential rate. We've been able to see those like that show starts fostering that. That's what we're looking to see. Just the proximity to excellent sounding systems and pros can really beget a better experience for those who are like newer, and that environment is just conducive to all that. So that's really the hope for it. We're seeing it kind of take traction and place and, uh, yeah, anything that we can do to kind of keep that spirit moving forward, that is what we're going to do yeah, most definitely, because you get inspired when you go to these type of events.
Speaker 1:You know, you got your car and even I think I met this guy I don't remember his name, but uh, he was basically going from car to car, listening to all the cars and seeing what, because it's it's tough to find a shop these days and be like, hey, I want to hear oh yeah, I want to hear JBL, I want to hear Accuton or I want to hear this, that. So this guy, you know that's it's near impossible these days.
Speaker 2:But it is.
Speaker 1:He came and he was listening to different cars and different setups and he didn't have anything in his car, but he came there to to kind of make some informed decisions.
Speaker 2:The best way to do it because, I mean, that is kind of what we've been talking about in this entire podcast is, you know, being an educated DIYer is really the key. Picking your platform in your vehicle, then start auditioning sound signatures. What is your sound that you're going after? Different speakers have different sounds. Different tuners are able to do different things. You know even that vehicle choice it all matters. So I mean, probably even better than that, to kind of level that up is that if you own, like, a Nissan Sentra and that's your ride, find a show where somebody is competing with a Nissan Sentra Like, go listen to that, like. If you can even get that, that's even better, because now that's your platform that you're listening to. But yeah, I think having patience when you're doing your install is key, but so is the pre-work that goes before you start buying anything.
Speaker 2:Figure out what it is that you like, what's your expectations, how far do you want to go? You know, like, is your goal to win trophies or is your goal to have fun? Like, to do the best that you can, like you know. Figure out what's right for you and then from there learn as much as you can listen, as much as you can. Keep listening, even as you're starting to figure stuff out, because you don't have as much figured out as you think. That's literally where I'm at right now. Every time I think I know something. I I definitely don't, so you know, but that constant learning is what keeps it engaging and fun. The same way I mean, I may cook for a living, but I'm hand-making a pizza right now as I'm talking to you, because I'm trying to learn how to make better pizza at home.
Speaker 1:Oh, save me a slice. Save me a slice. You got it, man, I got you. So basically, I mean, I'll be honest with you I wish that when I was younger and I was going through my sound cue uh sq journey that I knew, you know, I wish I could have gone to get togethers and and um, listened and auditioned cars. That way I could make some informed decisions.
Speaker 1:Because if I was to add up all the money that I wasted in buying these some speakers and being like, oh, I hate these and you know, buying even high-end speakers that you thought would sound good and didn't. And then and it's not always about buying the top of the line you know, most expensive, esoteric, exotic speaker that you could, that that's out there. It don't think that. You know, because you see some of these guys with some, some pricey speakers, you don't have to buy pricey speakers. Some of the best sounding systems ryan's for example his system is totally for the everyday joe and his system's not ultra exotic, it's literally something that the regular guy can achieve. You know, ryan's got a simple system but it rivals some of the most expensive systems out there, costing five, six times as much. So a lot of times, sometimes when you spend a lot of money, it's not, it's not about dropping a bunch of cheddar on a system. It's all about integrating that in the tune and getting those resonances.
Speaker 2:You know smacked down ever hear um, there used to be. I mean, maybe this is still going on, but people would complain at like a competition that for those who I think it was like built versus bought was oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You I've heard that like for those who showed up with a checkbook. They wrote a fifty thousand dollar check and then they show up at the competition and they do well. I'm like I don't ever. I never understood that argument because that has never been the case. In fact, it's the opposite. It's humbling. You know, just because you wrote a check, you take it to the competition. I don't know if I've seen anybody do well. They get their butt handed to them by people who have been fine tuning their system for years. And here you are with a fresh tune on a fresh system. That hasn't been. I mean just the sheer hours that other folks have in their vehicles. Yeah, it doesn't do well. So built versus bought, kind of has died down.
Speaker 1:But, similar to you, man, the amount of money that I've gone through like yeah I don't even want to think about it my wife's not here, but I don't even want to think about it yeah, because what people don't understand is yeah, if you have the means to drop you know x amount of money, just you know, give this guy your black card and be like, hey, yeah just do this, I'll be back in a month.
Speaker 1:And that doesn't mean that you're gonna you're gonna have a good sounding car. It's a reputable shop doesn't mean that you're gonna win competitions. Doesn't mean that this guy over here with um, you know, like a system that cost a third of what you have his, might sound better, believe it or not, because this guy put in the time to do all the little details to track down all those resonances. He played with angles, he played with different tunes, played with different crossovers. There's a lot that goes into making an sq system.
Speaker 1:It's not just dropping money and buying great components. It's like, yeah, that goes a long way. I'm not going to lie. You know what I mean. If you have the money to buy good speakers, you have the money to drop on a proper install and whatnot. Well, that's just, you're about three quarters of the way. That's why some of these guys are just constantly tinkering because, yeah, they got up to 90%, but they're trying to get to 91, 92, 95, 97. And it's like, the higher you go we use that as a, as a, you know we talk about that percentage the higher you go to. To go from 94% to 97%.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of work and a lot of blood, sweat and tears into getting your car. What I say dialed in you know. So just a warning out there, it can get expensive.
Speaker 2:No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:But one of the nice things about going to these events is that you can actually save money by doing your research first, instead of dropping components in there and dropping things in there and thinking, hey, this is going to sound great in my car. These get togethers are perfect for that. These competitions are perfect for you to get out there, listen to the cars, participate, ask questions, listen. There's nothing, nothing more that these guys at the get togethers or the competitions love to do than to show off their car to you.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's right, that's their baby. They're happy to show it to you, yeah.
Speaker 1:They're. They're happy to to demo it, you know so. So don't be afraid to come up to you. Yeah, they're happy to demo it, you know. So. Don't be afraid to come up to us and say hey man, can I listen to your car?
Speaker 2:Don't be afraid.
Speaker 1:I know in this hobby it's a lot of introverts and you know. But don't be afraid, we're more than happy to show off our cars, Like that's one of the things that we want to do is like, yeah, hop in the driver's side, You're in for a wild ride.
Speaker 2:That's it. I mean, look, we're all pretty proud of it, right? Like I love giving demos, like it's fun, like I want you to experience what I work so hard on and what I think is like a sound signature that I enjoy, so I definitely want to share that with folks, and if it helps inspire you or helps you on your journey to where you're trying to go within your own vehicle, then all the better. And I know I am not alone in that, we're all in that. I mean SVR. You're talking some of the top people in the nation who are winning awards left and right and have, like, national recognition. They are always more than ready to give anyone and everyone a demo, whether it's a spectator walking in from the street or somebody competing against them in their class. It's like sure, hop in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it's pretty amazing. I mean mean, but that's also the same group of folks and I've seen it where again you got somebody in your class who has a tweeter blow and they're going to be judged, like in a few hours, the people in that class will donate tweeters to help them install it. Like they'll tune it, like everyone's got everybody's back. I mean really. I mean I'm sure there's exceptions, because there is everywhere, but true man, like the majority of what I've seen is people are doing this for the love of sound and they will help you in any, any way that they can yeah, it's a big group of like-minded people and everybody comes from all kinds of walks of life, but these guys will literally give you their shirt off their backs.
Speaker 1:I've seen guys where they help guys with you know tow their car. I've seen guys help with with tuning. I had a guy who I was competing against and he helped. He was tuning some of the little, you know little tweaks in my car and I was in his class so you know, this isn't, this isn't like you know, these guys are your mortal enemies just because you're competing against.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's all for fun and it's all for the love of music and the love of great sound yeah, no, should have said it better that that's exactly it All right, mike, I think we're going to wrap it up. We got a good hour and 20 minutes on this, from the looks of it, the sounds of it. We could probably go on for hours, because we're so passionate with this hobby. But everybody give a big thanks to Mike.
Speaker 2:Thank you, everybody.
Speaker 1:All right, thanks, mike, and we're going to let it go right there.
Speaker 2:Sounds good.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:That's all folks.