The SoundQ Garage
Tech talk for the DIY car audio enthusiast that cares about sound quality
The SoundQ Garage
A First-Time DIY Installer Learns Why Tuning Beats Buying Gear
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You can buy great speakers and still end up with a system that sounds wrong, and Cal Cundiff proves it the hard way. We sit down with a dedicated DIY builder in the Tampa Bay area who turned a 2022 Ford F-150 into a legit sound quality truck using mostly OEM locations, a three-way front stage, and a DSP workflow built around MiniDSP and Dirac Live. The conversation starts with his current setup, then quickly moves to the real question: why do some builds image with a locked center vocal while others never get there?
We walk through the messy part of the hobby that nobody posts on social media: missing power kits, learning wire gauge, reinstalling panels for the fifth time, and realizing that swapping midbass drivers won’t erase cabin nulls or fix phase issues. Cal breaks down how he learned crossovers, time alignment, and tuning basics, why Dirac Live is not “auto-tune,” and how careful measurements can make or break your final result. We also talk OEM-friendly F-150 opportunities like dash speaker locations and why simple system design often beats complexity.
Then we get into the fun and the pressure: IASCA and MECA competitions, meetups as a tuning reference, and what it feels like to park next to cars you’ve only seen on YouTube. Along the way we hit common car audio myths, amp brand drama, and the beginner path that actually works: sound treatment first, install fundamentals, then learn to tune with tools like REW before you spend more money. If you’re building a DIY car audio system for sound quality, this is the roadmap we wish we had earlier.
Subscribe for more SQ conversations, share this with a friend building their first system, and leave a review if it helps. What part of tuning or installation are you stuck on right now?
Welcome Back And Meet Cal
SPEAKER_00Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Eddie with the SoundQ Garage Podcast. Yes, that's right. I'm back. It's June 12th today. I know it's been a while. I want to apologize to everybody, all to the uh SoundQ podcast listeners out there. It's been a while. Been busy with work. Got a new guest today. His name is Cal Cundiff. I want to introduce you to everybody. Oh, they're excited to hear about you. What's up, Cal? Funny.
SPEAKER_02I was like I had to listen to the jingle.
SPEAKER_00It went on a little while there. Hey, buddy, what's up? So why don't you introduce yourself to everybody?
SPEAKER_02Okay. Uh well, my name's Cal Cundiff. Um, I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, uh, specifically Palm Harbor. 54 years old, getting up there, married 26 years, and I have uh two kids, a 23-year-old and a 20-year-old named Colton and Sage. And my wife is Debbie, so that's uh the short version of me.
SPEAKER_00You make yourself sound so old 54. I'm I'm gonna be 53 soon, so uh yeah, I guess we'll I mean we're getting up there, buddy.
SPEAKER_02I'm starting to think about time a lot more nowadays, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's true. I'm I'm starting to feel the the the uh the arthritis on some of my bones. I hate to admit it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you and me both.
SPEAKER_00So I got a good buddy, his name is Ryan, he's a mutual friend of ours, and uh he said that you would be a good guest. And um, so the reason I brought you on is because uh I wanted uh the listeners out there to get a perspective from sort of like a more DIY type guy. And and Ryan said that you're uh you would be a good good guest for that. So uh why don't you tell the people out there what um what you drive and what you uh what you got in your car or truck. I'm sorry, right? You got an F-150?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, yeah, an F-150.
Cal’s F-150 System Breakdown
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, that first of all, that Ryan guy, he's he's kind of I don't think his elevator goes all the way to the top, so just I'll preface that. But anyway, um yeah, so I I drive a 22 F-150. Um, I've always been kind of a pickup truck guy. So I it it's it's worked well and it just it worked for me because you know, Fords and Jeeps and everything like that, they they they're so heavily accessorized, so they they make it easy to do, you know, audio and all that good stuff. So that's the only vehicle I've ever you know done pretty much car audio in, probably the only one I ever will for you know this point forward. That's that's pretty much where I'm at as far as the F-150 goes.
SPEAKER_00So what's your what's your system consist of?
SPEAKER_02So right now um I have a three-way front stage and I'm running a arc audio RS3 mid-range and arc audio RS1 tweeter. I have Excelsius 875s in the door, eight-inch mid-base in the door. I have two jail 10-inch shallows in the back under the rear seat. I have uh Morel Tempos in the uh coaxes in the back. I I specifically kept it as an OEM build. What do I have now? I'm and I'm always cycling things out. I can't seem to stop that. But uh right now I I'm still using um my Museway amps. I've got uh a Museway four channel, Museway six channel, and Museway mono. And then of course I have my mini DSP with Dirac Live. So and I've I've been real happy with that. That's you know, as far as anything else changing or any changes I'm going to make, I probably will never change the mini. It's just it's just it sits well with me. I really like it. Uh, it's taken me a while to get even moderately proficient with it, but uh, it's one of those hobbies. There's just so much to learn, man. And I and I I look at other stuff, and I'm to a point now, I'm like, you know, unless I do some serious fabrication, my OEM location is just it is what it is. It's probably as good as it's gonna get.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I mean, a lot of people, a lot of people out there don't understand that you could get some pretty good results with OEM locations, especially in a in a pickup truck like yours. You got you know plenty of space for eight-inch mid-bases and solid locations, and but DSP has come a long way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you do. And it's nice. Well, the biggest the biggest change I made, or I should say the most important change I made for the uh F-150 guys and girls, is doing that unleash conversion. I had just a non-BO seven-speaker system, and it had the tweeters and the A-Pillars, cross firing, and then you know, uh some six by nines down the door. Well, what they don't tell people with the 21 plus Fords, I think it was 21 to 26 Fords, is if you have just a standard system, well, underneath that uh underneath the that dash panel on the front, you've got you've got uh areas mount speakers. And uh as soon as I heard that and I pulled it up and I was like, oh my gosh, I can put some three inches you know down there. I found some B and O A pillars on uh eBay that it just basically puts the tweeter a little more on access. It's really, really not super ideal. But you know, I was talking to some guys at like MTI acoustics and Jeff Hall, guys that do a lot of the F-150s, and
OEM Locations And The Three-Way Leap
SPEAKER_02like, oh man, it's it's it's a fantastic uh front stage uh OEM location. And and then of course when I was able to do the three-way and and just start learning to tune that, it was a difference maker for me, no doubt. Uh, and I haven't really messed with it since. I I've I see some of the really, really nice stuff, some of the fabrication. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is uh the temptation is starting to grow strong.
SPEAKER_00So we were talking offline about how you said you you actually just recently got into it. What was that aha moment that made you uh get into car audio and made you know that you realized car audio could sound this good?
SPEAKER_02When I bought this truck, you know, I never I've always just been happy with stock OEM systems. I've just never really given it much thought. The non-BO system in the fours is just awful. It's so bad. And so I have a friend who I knew was in car audio that will come to find out, you know, and this is before I knew anything about car audio. I know, I know we were talking offline, you know, I didn't even know who Creshfield was. So I called him up and I'm like, hey man, you know, I'm thinking about improving my system. Well, you know, unbeknownst to me, he was already fully in SQ, he had a Helix DSP. Jeff Hald had done a remote tune on his car, and he was all into it. I didn't know anything about it. He goes, Well, come over and listen to my uh, he's got a Bronco, and he said, Come over and listen to my Bronco. And he goes, Let me let me let you hear what really good car audio sounds like. And I'm like, okay, so I'll come over here. Well, you know, for anyone that has never heard an SQ system before, you know, it it almost takes a little bit of training to train your mind to hear bass up on dash and to hear vocal center, you know, most of the time it's just coming out of each individual speaker. And I didn't like it at first. I heard it and I'm going, okay, well, man, it's you know, it sounds sounds weird. I'm just not I don't, I just never heard anything like this before. He's like, well, man, you know, you you gotta do get some good equipment, do it right the first time, don't waste money on stuff, you know, don't waste money on gear. That's not gonna be right. I'm like, okay, yeah, sure, whatever you say, man, whatever you say. And so I didn't listen to a thing he told me. Yeah, and uh I didn't listen to anything he said. No, I was like, no, I I kind of like surround, you know, like home audio. I want to feel like I'm in like a movie theater, and he's like, ah, you don't know what you're talking about. And I was like, okay, whatever you say. So I had been on an F-150 forum where some of the guys were talking about um sound quality. And there was one in particular, one guy, he was doing remote tunes, and he was the one that was mentioning, well, you know, put a DSP in your truck, and this is what this does. And I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. So I ordered my first system from a guy on there. I was I was all happy, and I had it on the had it on my kitchen counter, and I called my buddy over, and I was like, oh man, finally I'm getting in this car audio thing, and the the $1,000 I spent, I was mortified. I couldn't believe I'd ever spent so much money on something. Now I laugh at that. And um, I was like, $1,000? Are you kidding me? What what kind of system? Well, who would spend a thousand dollars on car audio? That is nuts. Yeah. And uh yeah, I was like, no way, no way. It was everything I could do to do it. And actually, I I gotta make sure my wife's my wife, I'm not speaking too loud because my wife maybe two rums over. She may hear me. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Hold on, let me uh go with the okay, wait. There we go. Yep.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was funny. So my buddy comes over and I got, I was so happy, I got this little Rockford uh powered eight-inch, you know, little Rockford sub, and I got some morels, some Morel speakers, and I put it, you know, and he it was all piled up on my kit. He looks at it, he he just looks, he says, in the first 10 seconds, he goes, You're gonna want more bass in a month. I'm like, oh whatever, man, no chance, no chance. So anyway, that was my first foray into car audio.
SPEAKER_00But definitely not the last. Yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's funny because you know, a lot of times like people don't realize that they can get good sound in a car. Because I'm not gonna lie, it's difficult to get. I mean, you could get loud and clear in a car, you know, that's that's easy installing it and putting some treatment in the car and and uh even putting some nice clean bass, but to get the car to image correctly, that's that's the money shot right there. That's the hard part. That's what I think.
SPEAKER_02That was I was still not even close to that ed. I mean, I I was I was just like, oh my gosh, this thing's gonna sound so much better. I'm putting these high dollar speakers in, it was like Morel Maximo speakers. Yeah, you know, I've got this little I got this little four-channel audio control, uh, micro amp, and no DSP, of course. When I when I got the stuff, it was just I I didn't even know how to hook anything up. I ordered it and I wasn't even thinking, you know, okay, well, how am I gonna do this? I said, I'll just figure it out, not worry about it. Didn't even say, you know, DSP was so far from the conversation at that point, you know. Well, it really wasn't that far, but I just wasn't thinking about it. When I got the system hooked up and my wife got in a car, I'm like, oh man, listen to this. And she's like, it sounds terrible. She goes, I I'm sorry. She goes, I know you're so proud of it and everything, but it just does not sound good. And it is anybody's guess how it was. I'm sure everything was out of phase. My probably Polaris flipped on my sub and it was rough.
SPEAKER_00Wait, so how how how did you uh how did you start getting on the learning curve then? Like that it w how did you learn what was good and what wasn't?
SPEAKER_02So I I'm embarrassed to say it, but I got all this gear and here I am. I I didn't think it through. I got it. The guy got it from. I thought he was just gonna kind of give me everything I needed. And so I didn't, I didn't get um, I didn't get a power kit, uh, you know, a power wire, ground, any any of the ferrels, any connection. I got nothing. I had the eight gauge uh power wire that came with the sub. And I thought I was just gonna you know run that through, and that's what was gonna power my system. I I called my friend back over, and you know, he was really busy. He he couldn't help me as much at the time. And he's like, no, man, you you gotta go get a you gotta go get a you know an amplifier kit and get the power wire and everything. I didn't know anything about gauge wire or anything. So that was when I started my YouTube journey. Pretty much the main, I mean, I went through I spent hours and hours and hours on YouTube um just for installation. And thankfully, there is a lot of stuff on the Fords. So, you know, uh one of my a couple of my favorites were uh Provo Beast Audio, um, you know, five star,
Hearing Real SQ For The First Time
SPEAKER_02Dean and Fernando, those guys, uh Market, Car Audio Fabrication, and PSS sound. And that was where I got most of my information as far as wiring and everything up. But I I'd go watch the video 10 minutes, okay. I I'd try to memorize everything. I'd run out, pop the dash off, look, make sure it matched up with the video. And I literally did this. There he is, a 54-year-old man or 52 at the time, going back and forth, you know, watching the video, going back out, watching the video, going back out. Finally got everything run. I got, you know, to the to my hookup. I made my own little ABT plastic anth rack and away I went. So that that was how I I taught myself how to do it. Now, at this time, I hadn't done any sound treatment in the in the truck or anything like that. So unfortunately, I didn't learn to do it right the first time, and I had to go back in so many more times to to fix or improve or correct or whatever the case may be with that. But I I I pretty much did it all on all on uh YouTube videos and DIY. You know, I I got a I found DIY. He had told me about DIY, and I started kind of looking at uh pictures and videos and just asking tons of questions. And I'm sure I annoyed just about everybody I talked to. Finally got and I and the the the big help I got from the the one guy that I ordered it from was he had designed a T harness for me. So, you know, I could I could I didn't have to cut any wires, I could bypass uh the head unit there, hook it up into the head unit and bypass for the amp and all that good stuff. So that was when that was my very first car audio system. I had I found um that little Rockford 8. I had an audio control four channel ACM, the Maximo two-way or the uh two-way component system in the front. I was off to the races.
SPEAKER_00And what what'd you have for DSP at that at that time?
SPEAKER_02I had no DSP. Yeah, I had no DSP. So I um I just I hated it. It didn't sound good. You know, I had no idea what I was doing. I thought I was just gonna, you know, put it, put speakers on an amp and and crank it up, and it was just gonna sound wonderful. I was in for, you know, I was I was disappointed quite a bit. So I I went back and started talking and investigating the DSPs more. You know, I didn't understand anything about crossovers, timing, you know, I I just I was so basic into this. So I started researching that, and I started researching, well, what what sounds good, you know, and everything like that. So by by this time, the Tampa Expo had a show, uh, an SQ show. And I'm like, well, this is a perfect opportunity because that the only car I had heard that was tuned for SQ was my friends. I'm like, well, I'm gonna go over there and check it out, you know? And so that I went over and that was when I first met. Gosh who did I mean I matter of fact, the very first car I ever sat in was John Center's car. And then I listened to Miguel's, Jeff Hall's, uh, Mike and Chris Myers. So the best cars to listen to, and I didn't know at the time, but probably I couldn't have picked five better cars to go listen to, you know. So, and I was like, wow, okay, okay, now I'm starting to get it. And, you know, I talked to them a lot, and okay, this is what I have to do, and this is what I'm going for, and everything like that. And they told me a little bit about competition. I didn't really know too much about that. So I took that and and and then went back at it. And that's where I really started researching DSPs. My first DSP was uh a Dayton, a Dayton audio, you know, DSP 408. I found it used on marketplace. Looked that up, start learning crossovers and just basic DSP tuning. And I'm like, okay, you know, I I started learning about you know what the crossovers do. I didn't know anything about EQ, anything about you know frequency response, anything like that. That was kind of my that was my entry level into the DSP world. From there, I I went to a Helix, a DSP3S Helix, and that had a lot more features, obviously. And uh, so that's when I started tuning into um RawCat and Resinux. Resinix at the time had a had a lot of information about the Helix and Rawcat. That's when I really, really started getting a little deeper into tuning all the principles behind it and where I could go in. I started playing around with you know all the different features of the DSPs and how it made it sound and everything like that. So I was still so raw. I just didn't know, you know, I was I was still fighting installation issues, you know. I'd go open the truck back up again and mess with something, and you know, it was it was it was it was constantly something.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it always is, especially if you're um you know a perfectionist. It starts to drive you crazy, this one little buzz, and you're easy all this time and energy.
SPEAKER_02I was far from it at that point, to be honest, Ed. I was just happy when I could hear music coming out of the speakers, if that gives you any idea. Yeah, I I wasn't advanced. I mean, yeah, I was I was so proud I was able to just wire this up myself because you know I've I I researched the cost and you know, it's it's not cheap to do professional work as far as the installation goes. Yeah, I went down and talked to Paul at Five Star there, Dean Hernando's, and just got an idea of I'm like, well, I before I throw in the towel and pay someone to do it, I want to do it myself. So, you know, it I was just getting sound out of the speakers for me was a huge deal. I was like, oh my God, okay, I can do this. This isn't, you know, I had a lot of frustrating moments, but I can I can do this. I I had the helix for a little while, and um, and I I was trying to think, I don't know what started me on the mini and Dirac. I can't remember who I was talking to about it or whatever, but then I found the thread on DIY, you know, with you guys, started started kind of just kicking back and seeing what you guys were all doing, and I'm like, okay, I I I'll give this one a try. So I I've never gone back since then. It's been a it's been a wonderful tool. It has its drawbacks like everything else, but oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00A lot of uh a lot of people think that it's um, you know, that it's it's auto-tune, and I'm like, no, it's not auto-tune, it's not it's not like that at all, trust me.
SPEAKER_02And uh far from it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yep, you gotta know a little bit of uh you know tuning techniques to get in there because uh Dirac gets you you know close, but it doesn't get you like like you know all the way there. I don't think um I don't even know if Helix, I know Helix has like a auto tune, but it's not like you could just set it up and walk away and and you got a 100% tune. I'm sure it's the same thing like Dirac, you you know, you set it up and then you gotta go in there and Ryan calls it, you gotta massage. You gotta massage it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02No, and yeah, because I I think the Helix, they've got that DSP tool six now. I think it has pretty good auto. But it's
DIY Install Mistakes And YouTube School
SPEAKER_02nice because the the group here, and I am the only one in as far as I know, uh, in all the area down here that uses the mini DSP. So, you know, that's been interesting because our our group here, you know, we got one one guy that has an ARC audio uh DSP, the other's got Zapco, the other's got a Helix. So that we have a wide range of um you know different DSPs here. So we all go kind of compare notes and they definitely all have their goods and bads for sure. You know, I I've been the only thing about Dirac is it just it's not like you said, it's not your uh standard way to tune a DSP. I I use uh the standard methods for pre-tune, post-tune, but uh the Dirac method itself is just it's just a different animal.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah. It takes a it takes a little uh trial and error and and uh you know you gotta sort of teach yourself and you also you gotta be um you gotta be patient too because um sometimes mistakes happen and uh it doesn't you don't get quite the tune that you were expecting, and you sometimes it can get frustrating and you're like, ah, I'm just gonna get a helix and let somebody else do it.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's it's funny you say that, and yeah, talk about frustration, going and going out into your garage at 4 a.m. and you're right in the middle of a tune, and and uh a jet flies right overhead going into Tampa International and just throws y'all off. I mean, I've I've backed my car into a lake and just abandoned ship a couple times, but no, but at the at the time, but well, at the time when I was starting all this, I was really starting to kind of focus on competition. And it's funny because I I started with the DRAC and I was debating something else, but then I saw I'm like Ryan and some of you guys were were doing doing really well in in competition because you start looking at the competition, and you know, just a few years ago, it was just Helix, Helix, Helix. You know, everybody was using Helix, and that was the the favorite DSP, and I'm like, well, maybe I made a mistake, you know, uh leaving the Helix and going to this. But then I saw uh Ryan was doing really well, and and you know, some of those guys were doing you know really well in competition. So I was like, okay, well, I'll stick with this. And you know, at that time I was talking, you know, more and kind of getting to know you guys as far as uh tuning and everything. But I uh when I when I got to that point with the mini, I I was really kind of starting to focus on competition. I knew I wanted to do it, I knew it was a challenge I wanted to set for myself, and so that was kind of where I was just I was sort of starting a tunnel vision on that.
SPEAKER_00So I found the mini from uh basically doing research on on um on Dyma. I don't have like a lot of you know, every state has their shops and stuff like that, but uh there was nobody near but me that could do like you know a high-level tune like uh back then, uh like 2017-2018, um they were just getting started with that with the um remote tunes and stuff like that, but nobody was doing remote tunes with like the mini DSP. Uh speaking of Ryan, Ryan kind of would um, if you want to even call it a semi-remote tune, Ryan would kind of walk me through on the phone. Ironically enough, my last tune that I did on my car, Ryan was guiding me through. It was nighttime. I was at my wits' end, and I kind of just um did the measurements real quick and it was it was dark out and I was frustrated, and I was like, this is my last shot. And I I didn't even like put that much effort into it, and ironically, it was the best tune that I got.
SPEAKER_02And I I like you said, it can be so inconsistent. So I I've had good tunes, and then I'm like, well, it may be a good tune. And I I learned that I I need to just step away from it after you know a night of frustration. I'll go back to it in the morning. I'm like, okay, it doesn't sound too bad. And that was how I started. I I started just with kind of the this the basic seven channel method, you know, the the guide and DIY without anything else. I just directed all the heavy lifting uh for the most part, and then you know, and then of course I started getting into learning the tune before the tune and learning RingQ Wizard really well. And you know, acquiring mics and everything like that. But yeah, it was the same thing. I was like, you know, it sounds good. Just Dirac on its own sounds really good. It like you said, it probably gets you. Most people would be completely happy with what a a basic D-Rack tune will do for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it gets you it gets you about 90% there. You know, and then you when when you get in there, if you got a good ear, you'll be like, you know, something's missing. That's where that last 10% uh comes in, you know what I mean? And that's a couple of years ago. I I I uh I participated in a competition and a couple of the judges told me what was missing, and I went back home and I did exactly what they said in my car. I I know a lot of the guys like Ryan and Todd, they like to tinker and and do tunes, multiple tunes. I haven't touched my tune since I got my good tune. I'm I'm afraid to touch it.
SPEAKER_02That's uh well I I can't say that. I have spent so much time tuning, retuning, doing A B comparisons, doing this, doing that. I've got a I've got a tune on there now that's not D-Rack. I've just got a non-Dirac tune, you know. I I uh I do all that. So but yeah, it it's but I I think probably everyone who is is getting into this initially, who try who goes the DIY route, I I imagine no matter what DSP or what uh what equipment they use, they they feel the same frustration because it it's hard. I mean, it's me. I had no background, I had no, I had nothing to compare anything to. I just kind of did it on my own. You know, I didn't I had one friend. This was before I hooked up with the group I'm in now, who's who's you know, we all really help each other. Yeah, I I I didn't know I didn't I I couldn't just go out and go, okay, what do I do? I don't know what to do here, you know. So I'd go back on YouTube or I'd read an article or something like that. So but that's that's what got that's what got me started. You know, I knew when I finally got that, and I felt like I had a pretty good DRAC tune. I read the ayahuasca rules and all that good stuff. And I was like, okay, I think maybe I think maybe it'll give me a pretty decent competition tune. We'll see. So that's how that started.
SPEAKER_00So so you're learning from YouTube. You get you got a lot of trial and error. Uh, I'm sure you're making mistakes and probably informational overload. Uh, what do you know now that you wish you knew on day one? Like what what uh valuable lessons you could give uh the newbies out there and the do-it-yourselfers that are that are getting into this.
SPEAKER_02So I have found when something goes wrong, it's usually my fault. So and I think people have a yeah, exactly. And I was like, you know, and I something would happen and I'd go complain, DIY, call whoever, oh man, I can't get this in. And most of the time, if I just sat back and I thought through the problem, it was something I did wrong. I'm like, oh god. And a
First DSP Steps And The Learning Curve
SPEAKER_02couple times I've just been absolutely embarrassed to say, oh my gosh, you know. So that is someone that is starting out that wants to do it most of it themselves, that's the biggest thing. You just know you're you're gonna make so many mistakes. It's it's pro unless they just have some magic touch, it's it's not gonna come easy. Yeah, you know, I I'd watch these videos of these installs. I'm like, man, these guys just make it look so simple. They're done in a couple hours, and one other thing. And that's another thing. If you plan, if you plan on doing something, and I'm like, oh, it'll only take two hours, go ahead and just triple that because it's gonna take probably six, if not eight hours. Like, I'll go switch some speakers out in the doors, and it ends up being an all-day project. So um, Dean and Fernando, they're knocking that thing out in two hours. I should be able to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what they're not showing you is what got edited out in the swear words and the banged up fingers and the going back to Home Depot or ordering stuff.
SPEAKER_02It it it is definitely uh what I tell someone new who's thinking about it, it is a labor of love. It is, you know, and a lot of things I I don't care for and and things I've had to go back and and I do differently now. And I'm I'm a lot more efficient, a lot faster. You know, when I first so when I first started getting into the sound treatment, I mean everybody's like, oh, you gotta have sound treatment, you gotta have sound treatment. I'm like, oh okay, well, I'm gonna go get sound treatment. So I you know I researched that. And the first time I did it, I started putting in the truck, you know, I wasn't wearing gloves or anything, and I mean I cut my hands to shreds. It was just I was just tearing myself up. So now I whenever I do anything, and I'm still not finished doing that, I I have mechanics, gloves, and I mean it goes just so much faster. So just little things like that, it takes a lot of time, and then you have to find someone that's patient enough to answer all your dumb questions. Some of these people are just so experienced, and it's just second nature to them. So I'm like, no, you have to really treat, talk to me like I'm a fifth grader. I really don't know. You know, they'll they'll start writing, oh, we gotta do this, you gotta do that. I'm like, No, no, no, I don't, you you've already lost me in the first five seconds. Talk to me like I'm a fifth grader. I don't know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So um explain it to me like that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, someone, some of the experience, and they they really are trying to help you, and they mean well, but you know, they still start throwing out terminology. I'm like, okay, wait a minute, back up. What do you mean? What what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So um what's a curtain? Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. I I asked Ryan, I was like, yeah, what's a curtain, dude? I don't even know what that means on the on the direct.
SPEAKER_02Trust me. Yeah. I've asked a lot of dumb questions in the last couple years.
SPEAKER_00Once you learn the terminology, that helps a lot because like when you don't know what you know what phase this and what the curtain that, or what what, you know, crossover or uh uh butterworth and you know, things like that. You're like, what's what's that? Butterworth, this, and and uh and the different names for crossovers, and I'm like, what are the differences? And sometimes just tinkering with the DSP2 goes a long way, just playing with it, and you're like, let me let me see what happens here, because that's what I did. Um, I would get in my car and try the different crossovers, and I'm like, let me see what the difference is. And I'm like, oh, okay. And and then um but I know with Dirac that you know if you follow a certain recipe, you get really good results with the uh with the guide with the direct guide. I know that uh Ryan and them have like a like a method. I know you said you did the seven channel. I think I did a four channel on mine. I did left, right, and sub and front sub. Do you have a front sub on yours or a front woofer?
SPEAKER_02I I I I don't. I don't. I still have juice basic OEM, two subs in the back. I I'm gonna change my sub configuration. But I've I've tried a lot of different techniques now um with DRAC. I've I've done you know the the seven, uh seven channel method. I've done uh mini DSPs recommended where you basically design a speaker left, left side, right side, and then I'll bring subs in. I've blended them, I've I've done heavy pre-EQ, not a lot. You know, I've tried a lot of different ways taking measurements with the the all-pass filters on, taking them off, changing. It's just my my only gripe about Dirac is you can't just sit there like on a like say take a helix and play a tone or everything and get you know a mess with the EQ and hear it live. You have to go in, change, you know, change your your target in in Dirac, get out of Dirac, go back in, listen to it again. I that's it if I had one gripe, that would be the biggest gripe is I can't adjust on the fly on certain things. I I try to get as much as I can done, you know, pre-EQ before I start going into the time. Usually now a Dirac is just kind of my icing on the top. I I by the time I get to that point Dirac, I've I've got a pretty good tune going on now.
SPEAKER_00So um so one of the methods that the Dirac group had mentioned was just to let Dirac do its thing. That's the method that I went with. Um what I found with Dirac was um your crossovers, picking your crossovers was was like super vital. And I probably spent a month with no, you know, with no EQ, no nothing, no time alignment. I just literally spent a month playing with crossovers, figuring out what crossover when I found the correct crossovers that I'm like, you know what? And my crossovers are pretty unorthodox too. Like people were saying, oh, go with these crossovers. It's like you can't go with what the internet says, like you get that information overload on the on the keyboard warriors, you know. And uh you you you know, and you start to listen to people and you're like, you know what, I just gotta get in here and get my hands dirty and do it myself. I realized that picking the right crossovers was was vital. Once I got the right crossovers, I let Dirac do its thing. And what I thought was kind of vital was definitely getting the mic measurements like correct. So I I don't know if you saw I on our group, I posted pictures. I used like a uh mannequin thing, you know, those that like a head. Yeah, I did.
SPEAKER_02I I did, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I put it on a microphone stand and I made sure that the mic was exactly X amount of inches from the nose, you know, where where I measured where my nose would normally be, and I marked it. And I don't remember how many inches it was. You know, it did I know they say to keep that invisible rectangle uh no more than 15 inches, I think. I think it was eight or nine, or I don't remember 11 inches. It was you know, because it started creeping real close to the window. I did like a compromise, like nine or ten inches. I I don't remember now, it's been so long. And I made sure, you know, you I used a um a ruler to make sure that the opposite side was the same amount of inches. So I realized that that was because some people do it while they're sitting in the car. I didn't sit, I sat in the back seat. He likes to sit in the seat because um it'll it'll measure for because of his leg. I I went against conventional wisdom and I I actually got out of there because I'm like, well, my leg is blocking the mid-bass, you know, because it's in the door, and it won't get a um, you know, there's kind of the the you can have arguments for both sides.
SPEAKER_02I've tried both, I've tried all those ways. I mean, I've tried in-seat, out of seat, I've put mic stands in. I I've tried a lot of different different techniques.
SPEAKER_00What technique worked best for you?
SPEAKER_02Well, so my best, my tune uh was was uh Tampa in February um at the at the Tampa Expo because I competed in that. And I sat in the back seat. I I put the mic for the the main listening position measurement, the first measurement, put it in one of those homemade uh 3D printed uh little mic stands, kind of sandwiching between the seat, got out of the seat. I have done so many things. Oh my god, I I I've taped string up on the ceiling. I I've done it's kind of funny. I when I line up, just do the judges, I've got a piece of string with a little ferrule tied at the end, and I I line it up exactly in my nose, and when I put somebody in a car to listen to it, I let that hang and I put their nose right on it, and then I I tape it back up again. But um That's a good idea. I like that. Oh yeah, it was funny because uh at the last one that the judge looked at me was like, What are you doing? I said, just don't move your head much, you know. Don't don't move, don't move, don't move.
SPEAKER_00That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_02That that's kind of what I use for that, actually. I keep it taped up just so if I have to adjust the seat around and everything, I always can come back to it. But man, I've got tape on my B pillars, I've got little spongy things hanging off the stuff. It's it's almost just kind of common.
SPEAKER_00People people who aren't into this hobby would probably look at us like we're crazy.
SPEAKER_02I don't need to go to a lot of people, I can just go look at my wife and I get that look all the time. So yeah, when I was doing this, I was I was doing all kinds of crazy stuff.
MiniDSP Dirac Live Reality Check
SPEAKER_02I was in the car, out of the car, going back, you know, and she's just looking at me like, what are you doing? I was like, it'll never make sense. Just don't even ask.
SPEAKER_00So with the evolution of the of the F-150 with your truck and you're doing all these things, trial and error. So what what would you say what worked and what didn't? Like what uh, you know, what was your biggest aha moment where you're like, ah, okay, that well, why am I wasting my time with this when I could have been doing this?
SPEAKER_02Right, right. I have uh OEM, you know, the door, the mid-base doors, and they're just so bad. And I've I've gone through four speaker, and I the one thing, one aha moment, I was like, you know, it doesn't matter how many different kinds of mid-bass I put in my door. I've had Morel, I've had Excelsius, I've got some stereo integrity sitting there right now. The response is just gonna look exactly the same almost every single time. I'm gonna get the cabin null and everything. That was, I thought that changing things up were gonna was gonna make a difference. And you just you just can't overcome the deficiencies of your car. That was the biggest aha moment as far as that. Also, my truck, while I have shallow subs now, and that's gonna be my next probably big change, is I don't have to have huge output on base. Accuracy is more important to me, but I always struggle on that that that low frequency extension, you know, when you start getting down into the 25 below frequency response. So I'm probably going to do a seat lift and put a little more stout, just a single sub. And I'm also found that um I think I have a hard time I get getting phase cohesion with my typical truck box base. You know, most of the truck boxes, they you put them in, it's see, you know, a truck box and one subs behind the passenger, one sub's behind the driver. I'm gonna go to one just for uh for a little more ease or a little more uh ease of tuning when it comes to the phase, you know, going from the the the sub to the mid-bass, getting getting phase cohesion through the crossovers there. So that's probably the bat in my truck specifically, though, and like I mentioned before, going the three-way with the the mid-range in the dash was just an absolute game changer for me. I I couldn't believe the difference when I got a good tune on a three-way. I was running a two, and it's not that you can't get a great sound on a two-way, but man, when that happened, I was like, wow, this is this is, and it's definitely the strength of my system, is is that. So, you know, anybody thinking about doing that, I know there's a lot of talk about dash, you know, mid-range uh, you know, dash speakers and all that good stuff. And it it it's it really was a game changer for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a lot of people don't realize what um you know you can unlock a lot with a three-way. I mean, you know, I've heard Ryan's car had um uh a wide band. Yeah, wide band, yeah, yeah. He uh he had the wide Excelsius wide band, uh, it was a beta speaker, though. I don't even know if it's in production, and his system sounded really, really good. And uh I was really surprised. Uh, but you know, there was things missing, and he there was it was compromises, and uh with everything there's a compromise in every car, every system, there's a compromise, you know what I mean. Like, I can't count how many times I've gotten in somebody's car, and I'm like, man, I wish my bass was like that, or I wish my mid sounded like that. It's just a compromise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is, and you know, you see like some of these just unbelievable cars, you know, you'll see some, you know, and what they do to get to that point, and you know, to get to that level. And it and I tell people, I'm like, look, you need to put this in perspective when you start getting into this. I said, especially, you know, a lot of these guys, they are you're getting advice from somebody who's in that la, they're seeking that last five percent, you know. You you just you can't to get to that level. Most people you don't even know what you're listening to at that level unless you've just been training yourself on, you know, getting the layering and all that good stuff. I I tell most people I'm like, look, what what are you what's your goal with this? What are you trying to accomplish? If you're not trying to compete, you could like you do, like you said, put a wide band in the dash, you know, some six and a half mid-bass in the door and a basic DSP, you're gonna be happy as a clam, you know. You for a driving around system, you know, if you're not competing, uh most most people would be more than happy with that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah. So the the the people that don't realize that, oh, I'm missing uh a little bit of the the you know the lower mid-range with this wideband. And it's like only somebody like us would know that. But other people, the 90% of people would would be like you said, happy as a clam with a system like that. Because Ryan's car sounds fantastic.
SPEAKER_02I still haven't heard Ryan's car.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I haven't heard yeah, because you're all the way in Florida.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know. I was gonna the last meetup I wanted to go to, but I'll try to go to another get together where everybody's there and hopefully get a chance.
SPEAKER_00But so Todd's have soon in it in Pennsylvania, and that's a little closer to you, but I mean you're still up, you know, you're still I was thinking of going to uh what is it, SBR, Steel Valley Regionals, just taking a plane out there and renting a hotel for a day or two and you know, just to hear these cars, and and uh because a lot of the guys from the East Coast go up, you know, go out there and uh or to Aggie Land and stuff like that, and um just to fly out there and and experience that would be nice too, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that's probably some of the best cars, definitely goes after you. And I would like to go to Aggie Land.
SPEAKER_00Once you got your car or your truck dialed in and everything, so you started competing? What what was that like? What was your first uh first competition like? I mean you must have been nervous when you when you did that.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know it's funny, I I didn't I didn't really feel nerves until I I went to I went to the world finals last year in in Alabama. Um and that was kind of my intention. I said, you know, I'm gonna see if I can take this all the way. And by this time, I mean the hooks were in bad. I was just spending huge amounts of time researching, and and you know, once I had my my basic installation where I was moderately happy with it, that's where I really, really started focus on tuning and all of that. So, but my first competition was at OTS Audio, and it was a small competition. I had obviously reached out to Angie Landis. She was organizing all the Florida stuff, she's the IASCA contact for Florida. Did my first one and placed, and I'm like, oh hey, this is great, you know. But before we had done that, I had reached out to a couple guys that were in the area and I said, Hey, listen, I'm I'm really thinking about competing. Are you guys interested in this? So I met uh the first guy I met for our group here was uh on DIY's tunes. His name's Craig. And we met at OTS Audio, and I was like, hey man, you want to meet on Sunday? He's like, okay, we need to know each other from Adam. I'm like, well, I hope you know he doesn't try to jack my car or you know, he steals something from me. I wasn't sure. So we meet, he's a nice guy. Come to find out, we both went to high school together. So it was a small world.
SPEAKER_00Wow, yeah. That's funny.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh, it's crazy. I know we knew the same people. I'm like, oh my gosh. So that's basically what started it. So then we reached out to a couple others, you know, we met Aaron uh down, brought him in. And you know, we're we're all truck guys down here. We all have trucks, so it's kind of funny. Uh I I tease you guys about cars and stuff because all we have are you know, most of our stuff is trucks. I I don't I don't think do you guys even I don't think many of you guys have trucks uh comp you know for competitions. Do you I think almost everybody has cars? Um Ryan's a camo reason.
SPEAKER_00I would say like it's it's like 20, 30 percent trucks, yeah. Which is ironic because I used to live in Florida. You're not kidding. I don't know why trucks are so big in Florida, because when you when you mentioned Dean and Fernando earlier, and and uh I'm like every other car that they have on his show are F-150s and uh Ford F-150s sell like hotcakes in Florida, which is ironic because it's hot down there. You would think that trucks sell would sell more in the East Coast, you know. But uh ironically, everybody's a truck person out in Texas and in and in Florida, like it's it's a big thing. Oh yeah, you know, and they get my truck horrible miles per gallon. So oh, terrible, terrible.
SPEAKER_02My truck makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I have it so yep.
SPEAKER_00I call it miles per gallon, that's what I tell people. I'm like it's miles per gallery.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we don't we don't talk about gas miles with a truck, it's not a good cut topic.
SPEAKER_00So I know you know, once you got a truck though, because I've you know I've driven trucks for work and I've had them and I got to take them home and and I'm like, you know, I could see their appeal. I just don't see the appeal with the gas. That's the only that's the only thing there's there's no appeal. Because there's you know, there's there's utilitarian. I know this that once you have a truck, it's just like a pool. All of a sudden you have new friends that people want, you know, they want favors from no that that's what that's when when everybody moves, you get the call.
SPEAKER_02Like, hey man, can you come over and move this couch for me? You're like, yeah, no, I'm not doing that, but yeah, yeah. No, it's um well, and that's what star and that was another thing because we you know we started kind of our own little Florida SQ group here, and everybody had trucks, so we all had similar problems, but
Mic Placement Tricks That Actually Work
SPEAKER_02that's what got it going. We started OTS, Sammy was the judge, and then we reached out to um Tony Pascal, who runs Met Mecca down here, and that's that was really our only two avenues. And and you know, but both Angie and Tony are fantastic. I can't speak highly enough about them. They, you know, Tony brought us in, you know, he's got his little shop over in Orlando. Now, the first Mecca competition I went to was made of steel, and I don't know if you're familiar with that one, but no, I haven't uh huge.
SPEAKER_00I think I've heard it in passing now that you now that you mention it, made of steel, but it's an SPL show.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And it's one of their it's one of their biggest. Well, I had never been to one before, and Mecca has this thing where they will do the SQ judging before and then the boomers, they let they won't let them tee off until around you know 10 or so that later that morning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that was our first show, and I had never been to any show before. So that was my first Mecca show. And then when when you know, and all of like down for sound and and and all these huge SPL uh companies were there, and there was thousands of people there. And when the cars started teeing off, I I had never heard anything like it before. I mean, I'm seeing these cars. I went to the bathroom, I thought the building was gonna come down. Yeah, yeah. Great bills, but I couldn't get out there fast enough.
SPEAKER_00It's not for me, but um, it's kind of like I've said this before in past past podcasts. That's what kind of brings people out, though. That's those big booming systems, is what gets people's attention, you know what I mean? The the pinky up crowd like ourselves, you know, like you barely even know the systems on, like, but those big systems that are that are shaking the earth and everything like that, that's what gets people like. I brought my son and his girlfriend at the time out to uh to a SQ show and they were bored to death.
SPEAKER_02Terrible. And then they'll go to that and it's just and you and I was telling, I was like, that is the formula, whatever the SQ crowd, they have to, that's the formula to use to get people out. Yeah, because that it was it was just so many people, but um and it was interesting to see. So, you know, and I I it was nice going through with a bunch of other guys who were all novices at the same time. That's what pretty much got me through the that group of guys. And uh we started talking about well, if we qualify, let's let's let's do finals. And um, you know, you gotta do a grind, you gotta do your points and get all your accumulated points. So we focused on Mecca and Ayaska and um uh uh James and I. Um James is Brahma Bull on DIY. Uh Greg was going to go and he he he couldn't, and so we ended up going and That was probably when I felt intimidation. The other shows, the smaller shows, just going to get your points weren't huge. But when you got to that at that venue, and then you're starting to see everybody there, like, oh my gosh, I've seen this guy's car on YouTube, and there it is, and you know, that was that was a little more intimidating. So that was the first time I kind of felt it.
SPEAKER_00So from what I realized, I've I've seen some of these guys' uh vehicles uh, you know, on on YouTube, and I've seen them, and and uh at the meets I get to meet up with them and and and just beautiful installs. And uh I listened to Angie's car before, she's got an awesome install and very showy. Yeah, uh what is it, an Avalon, Toyota Avalon, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yep, yeah, and she and she runs uh Audio Frog speakers, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she runs all Audio Frog and she's got a beautiful system. It sounds great. Uh six foot tall trophies. She came out here, by the way. So you got no excuse, buddy. She drove out here like two years ago.
SPEAKER_02Uh I between between her and and Scott Smith, I they're Road Warriors. I can't keep up with them. They are just absolute Road Warriors. They they go everywhere.
SPEAKER_00But uh Yeah, I mean it is a rough drive. That's what that, you know, I've driven out to Florida. I lived there for a year, but you know, driving uh, you know, a thousand miles plus does get does get uh rough on the body.
SPEAKER_02I I I will probably um for future, you know, I always still go to the locals, but I will probably be a little more target specific and do the bigger shows with multiple judges because that's kind of what I like. Yeah, I I will try when when life is not so busy, I will definitely try to do a little more driving and get out to some of the shows.
SPEAKER_00So we so in the DIY crowd, you know, when we weren't doing competitions, one of the things that we we like to do is we like to do meetups. We do the meetups over here. And um, I I feel like the meetups, I'm more comfortable at the meetups because everybody's demoing their cars, everybody's just talking shop, everybody's talking about car audio, and you get to demo people's cars, and um that's one way to get a reference. That's one of the that's one of the tips I give anybody out there that's getting into this hobby is uh I think that's that was my aha moment when I realized what you should do is get a reference for what you should be listening for, you know what I mean? Yes, because you could you it's like throwing darts, and if you're if you're not gonna hit the target if you don't know where the target is, you know.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So true. No, and you're right. I think most people are comfortable. Like I I really wanted to go up to uh you know the Jason's one uh in North Carolina. I heard that's just such a great one. And I was so sorry I couldn't go this year, but I plan on going next year. But I think most people are more comfortable doing that. They want to just go see what it's about, and and you know, going headfirst in a competition like I did is probably not the best way to do it, but that's just just how I roll, I guess.
SPEAKER_00So you've been doing doing pretty good though? You've been you've been placing and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Actually, I I've been very fortunate. Um, I I when I really started to get into tuning, um, things started coming together a little more. But yeah, I I I usually do pretty well in competitions, and I I go in not expecting to do well. Um, and then you know, and when you go in and you're going against, of course, some of the best tuners in the country and some of their cars, and that I use that as a reference as well. But you know, the last time, you know, like in the money round, I was so happy with getting 12th in the money round. I was just a few points off from getting in top 10. That was huge for me because I I I know I'll I I'll never have the skills to take it all the way, but just to even get in the ring, cars tuned by the Myers and Jeff Hald and you know, some of these other guys, it's just like, man, this this is okay. This is I I really feel like I accomplished something. That was that's how I do. But you're right, as far as the reference systems, it's so important, especially to get in that last 10% that you're trying to hunt. If you don't know what it's supposed to sound like, you won't know how to tune it to that. And um, that's so helpful. Just hearing what it's uh a real. I remember I remember uh one of the first cars I listened to at the finals was Mark Bruno's, and he has got a nice car. I mean, oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's a beautiful one stuff.
SPEAKER_02That's a beautiful car. Oh my god, his stage just goes for miles, it's so deep and it goes all the way back. I'm like, wow, okay. But I mean that kind of gives you a good idea.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh, that gives you a great idea.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_00The thing is about a car like that, that I'm not saying it's not achievable by us, by by by the regular Joe on a DIY scale, but you're talking about I at least in my opinion, this is just my two cents. You're talking about an extreme, extremely professional, you know, uh um setup system that's got a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, uh, trial and error and and experience. And you're talking about, I mean, I would imagine a system like that is I wouldn't doubt if it was a quarter million dollars, you know what I mean, all the stuff he's done on there.
SPEAKER_02I can only imagine. And and that is what he said when I asked him about it. He says, you know, man, this is just something I've been, it's a it's the same tune I've been working on for years. He goes, yes, a little adjustment here, a little adjustment there. It's taken him a long time to get to that. So, like I said, it's it's a labor of love. You know, you gotta you gotta want to do it.
SPEAKER_00But like I tell people, like, um, sort of, I don't know if you saw Brian Mitchell's car. That's an extreme build right there, too. And that, you know, those are cars you don't even if you could drive Brian Mitchell's car or Mark Bruner's car, I wouldn't daily drive a car like that. You know, like that's just such a way monster amount of energy, a monster amount of money and and labor put into a car like that. You don't want some some teenage punk running into you or some old lady accidentally hitting you by, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Let's not even go that far. Let's I I wouldn't want some pebble flying up on the interstate and cracking my windshield.
SPEAKER_00I often tell people, I'm like, you know what, you want to get a reference, get yourself a decent pair of monitor speakers, like near-field monitor speakers, and set them up in in your in your office or in your studio, you know, your room, whatever, so that you could get at least hear the stereo effect. Because I would say 99% of people don't know what stereo
What Changed Everything In The Truck
SPEAKER_00means. Like to me, like it's like, right, hey man, nice stereo, you know. Like in in you remember those stereo rack systems we used to have in our in our house? Stereo can mean two things, you know. I mean stereo, the physical uh component hardware version of it, and but also the stereo effect. I didn't know about the stereo effect till later in my years. And I was a I used to be an installer and I didn't know what the stereo effect is. Most most musicians don't know what the stereo effect is. And I would say I would even take a stab at most music doesn't contain the stereo effect, at least most new music doesn't contain the stereo effect or is not mastered to have the stereo effect. That's why some people you'll come to see that a lot of our playlists are the same. Funny because a lot of a lot of the music that we listen to, we all have the same songs. It's like because we've all curated that list.
SPEAKER_02And the they're the songs that sound the best on systems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they they show your system off really good, you know. So um exactly to get that stereo effect, that phantom image, you know, that where your speakers just disappear. That's what when I started to go to the meetups, that's what I realized. I was like, oh my god, like when I I was like, the music doesn't even sound like it's coming out of the speaker, it sounds like it's coming from the center. But like you're looking at the speaker and you're like, the music's not coming from there. Somebody put a speaker in the middle and they're messing with me, you know.
SPEAKER_02I know. Yes. And it and that was the that was what blew me away the first time. Like, this sound this just sounds weird. I'm just not used to hearing it like this, but yeah, yeah, it's that is it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02And it's funny because well, and now everybody's messing around with like the atmos and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00You know, I'm hearing all kinds of different stuff, so different ways, but yeah, I I I noticed that Pioneer is coming out with something that's sort of like that, and I'm like, I don't know, physics is physics, and and I think a lot of it, some of that stuff is gimmicky.
SPEAKER_02I think I haven't heard any of it yet.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, I haven't heard it either. I know Andy likes, you know, some people like to have like multiple speakers. I'm surprised you even have rear fill in a in a pickup truck.
SPEAKER_02I I do, but I I just I haven't used it for competition yet. I'm still kind of playing around with that. Um, and I I just haven't got it to a point. And it's in probably a crappy location for rear fill. I think most of the most of the rear fill, especially in the trucks, they have them back on the C pillars high, you know, down whereas mine are down low in the rear doors. And it really uh every time I mess with it and I've done differential and just done this regular rear fill with delay. Some songs I get a little bit maybe, but I'm just not comfortable enough with it. So I've actually found simple is the best. I like uh Mike Myers' car, I think when I heard his car the first time, you know, I had like he was running four speakers. I I don't think he had the tweeters hooked up, you know. And I was just like amazed. I think sometimes people tend to overcomplicate it, you know, especially people getting into it. That's why I tell him like, just keep it simple, you know, learn and get what you have as good as you can get it before you move on. That that would be my advice to someone.
SPEAKER_00But I've noticed that too. Like uh uh you just took the words out of my mouth that the more speakers you got in there, the more complex and the more tuning and the more mistakes you can made. So yeah, I try to keep it simple. I mean, if I could go with a two-way, I would go with a two-way, but in my car, I I pretty much needed a three-way to bring it up. You know, a lot of a lot of things are are basically limited to what your car is capable of, too, you know? Exactly. So as a DIYer, I know that you're a hardcore DIYer. Um, how important is the community? I know that you know, a lot of people they they don't know where where to even start. Like discuss like meeting people who share the same passion, mentors, friendships, and uh why enthusiasts like helping newcomers, you know. What what do you think about that? How important the community is to this, to to a DIYer, anyway.
SPEAKER_02For SQ purposes, for sound quality purposes, it's huge because it's such a small community. I mean, there's just not many. My my group of guys, Greg, Aaron, James, Kelly, Brody, some of these guys down here, we've all helped each other through. And um, especially for this, I mean, you know, it it's a concept that no one really even knows what it is. You know, you almost have to, when someone gets in your car, when I demo my truck, I I give them a five-minute little educational thing. I'm like, okay, this is what's happening, this is why why it's gonna sound how it's supposed to sound, it's gonna sound a little differently than what you're used to. Most people aren't, you know, know anything about. And so having the guys here, it's it's just it's it's pulled me through. I mean, I I a lot of times uh with a lot of things, I only have interest because I know they're going, you know, and if they're not going, well, I'm like, eh, eh, maybe I'll go, maybe I won't. But you know, when you know a couple of them are going, and it just it makes all the difference in the world. But getting a mentor who's willing to take the time is just massive. If you really want to get serious into it, you know, so um I I kid you guys, but you know, like uh the the Dirac guys in the group, you know, like Ryan and Logan and Todd and some of those other guys, they're kind of my unofficial mentors because this system is not widely used, not not as many people use it, especially for competitions. You know, almost everybody's Arc Audio or Helix or or you know, Zapco or whatever the case may be. But not a lot of people are running Dirac. Having that for this, I probably would have given up on it a long time ago. Yeah. Because I I just I would have. I mean, I'm not like I said, I've never in two and a half, you know, two, two and a half years ago, I couldn't have told you a thing about any of this. So if I don't have someone helping me with it, I would have just probably gone to where I could have found the most help. And it probably would have been a helix. You know, I would have gone back to the helix just because there's so much information on that out there that you know that would have made the most sense. Those guys are huge. And and we and you know, like I could literally I could call any of them right now, and they have like I've I've called them and said, hey man, I can't get this. Can you come over and help me? And just right there, you know, comes to the house. You know, we've all you know been to each other's homes, and and it's just um, you know, we we've gone to the area, and it it's nice to find that for this because it's just not a lot of not a lot of people that do it, you know.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I wish I had some people close by. That's one of the reasons. Oh, yeah. That's one of the reasons why I chose the mini DSP with with Dirac was I don't have a tuner nearby, you know what I mean? Like, because Dirac does a lot of the heavy lifting, like you said. You know, a lot a lot of people a lot of people wonder why there's not a lot of people using the mini DSP with Dirac, and and people take that almost as a negative, and it's like, well, think about it. A shop doesn't want a component like that that does a lot of the heavy lifting, they want that that labor to do the uh the tuning, you know, they want to be able to charge for that, you know. They want a human and I mean that's good too. If you have somebody in your area that's nearby, or or you or you're content with um, you know, a single tune, you know, because I've I've seen people with the helix and they got a tune by, you know, and I'm not gonna drop any names, but I'm talking big names in the tuning industry, and the tune wasn't quite there because there's always um even with even with a direct tune, you still there's little things that you could shave at and and keep tweaking. So um no doubt. Even even with big name tuners, they could still get in there and uh because every ear is different, so the tuner, you know, a remote tune doesn't get you as close as to uh in-person tune.
SPEAKER_02No, I say I agree 100%. I I I think you know, I I think the remote tune, and and my my first tune I heard was a remote tune, and it was great, it was a fantastic tune. Yeah, um, but yeah, you you if you're gonna spend any well, I tell people, I'm going, you know, if you don't want to go this DIY route, that's fine. But get get it get a professional tune and just be done with it, you know, and make it easy. But if you're gonna go the DIY route, yeah, it it definitely and it and Dirac is not easy. I mean, Dirac is a huge learning curve for it. It's it it definitely for a DIY, it's a great system. All right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that the definitely, I mean, the I the only thing that I would say is a big negative is since Helix is kind of like the big boy on the block right now, Helix Bracks. That it's basically basically Audio Tech Fisher. Uh-huh. You know, Audio Tech Fisher has a lot of big names behind it, you know. It's got um Peter from PS Sound and and Um Miguel Rios and uh uh Nick uh Apicella, they all you know, everybody endorses mini DSP with Dirac is kind of like who the hell is that? What the hell is that? It's the redheaded stepchild of the of the of the DSPs, but um, like I was saying before, the the the the shops aren't gonna, you know, they're not gonna want to endorse a product that they're that they're not gonna make money on. You know, at the end of the day, like well, a lot of these hobbies, a lot of these companies and a lot of these people that tune, it's definitely about, you know, I know they're passionate about it and they love audio and and but it's also to keep the lights on, they need something that they can make money on. And a lot of companies aren't gonna not that they can't make money on Dirac, it's that the Direc has a a different learning curve than I than I believe. What I wish, because Dirac isn't the popular boy on the block, the popular girl on the block, is that there's not much like development on it, you know. There's not like a version two now or anything like that. Like um, I believe what did our mini DSP come out like in 2017, right?
SPEAKER_02The GUI is pretty basic on it. It is not you look at some of these other DSPs, you're like, oh my god, ours is basic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. I mean, and it still works, it's still powerful and can mop the floor with some Helix system, you know, setups and stuff like that. And in the right hands, any DSP is powerful if it has enough features.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00That that's my major gripe with mini DSP right now, that they that and not that they abandoned us because you could still buy it, but that they haven't kind of kept on with RD on it, you know what I mean? It seems to be kind of dead in the water.
SPEAKER_02I tried to coax them out on it. I I I posted on the mini mini DSP forum and I, you know, I posted my competition trophies just as kind of a preface to hey guys, look at me. I'm doing the mini DSP and I'm doing really, really well. Yeah, do you guys have anything coming? And I was like, you know, I I saw a gold horn the other day that has all these features. Is mini DSP coming out with anything soon? And they just the the the admins just gave me a a like and that was all they wouldn't say anything. So I was like, well,
Competitions Meetups And Finding References
SPEAKER_02I guess I have my answer there. So yeah, yeah. I I was gonna say, I I'm just you know, I like the mini too because I've always been kind of a go against the grain kind of guy. So when someone tells me everybody's everybody's doing this, I'm like, well, then I'm just gonna go the other direction, see if I can make it good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm the same. I'm I'm I'm that guy that I'm I'm kind of like I like the underdog, so I I like that type, but I'm I have that mentality. But um earlier you were talking about how you said you had some Museway components, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00So it's funny that um I've every time that I've run into a car with Museway or uh Museway speakers or anything Museway, I'm impressed. I have some Museway stuff here sitting on my shelf, and I'm really surprised that Museway isn't as popular in the US as other components, too, you know, as other uh audio manufacturers. And I'm like, this this need this needs more more exposure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, it's I I think it they're it's big in Europe. Um I I think uh it's used on their their competition circuit over. And I was like I said, it's kind of that go against the grain thing. But you know, I I was looking at uh reviews on some of the um some of the gear that uh over in Europe and some of that like the Eaton and the Museway and some of these other things, and everyone was just raving about the Museway. I'm like, well, hey man, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a try. And you know, I've I've already run through several cycles of amps, and and I probably probably won't be my last amplifier. But um, yeah, they've been they've performed, they've been excellent. They um they're small, they're class D. I I never used anything but a Class D amp. And they've they've worked really well. I ran the whole season with them uh and and have no complaints. Yeah, so I know uh and I I I think uh I think Ryan is trying one of the tweeters, and I think some of the speakers uh everyone's raved about the the Museway speakers and actually I sold Ryan the Museway tweeters that he's that he's installing now.
SPEAKER_00Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I said, I have a bunch of Museway goodies here at my house, and um they're you know they're still in the box. I haven't touched them, but I'm like, you know, I hear so much good stuff about them, and uh every time that I sell like a component, I ask the the person, hey, how do you like them? And they they just have nothing but good things to say about it. And um, that's why I've been kind of surprised. But yeah, there's a lot of stuff in the European um side of things that people don't even realize that that's some good stuff, you know what I mean? I mean, yeah, those who know know. Uh I think Gary Bell's always talking about Museway and how good it is, and and his buddy there was joking saying that he gets a cut of it or something. And I'm like, no, it's good stuff. It's good stuff. I'm like, you gotta try it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, it if you if you go, if you order from Europe, it it's not bad, but uh you start coming back over here, it goes up. It's uh definitely, you know, I don't throw that out as far as you know retail and why why things are the way they are, but I don't even I don't even think Newsway USA was here yet when I first ordered them. So I ordered mine from Europe. Um I ordered from a shop in uh Italy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and uh insane.
SPEAKER_02They were they were they were pennies on the dollar, they really weren't that expensive. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Well, not anymore with the tariffs. Uh last time when I ordered those two. I got hoes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I haven't I haven't I haven't done it since then, so I'm just kind of holding on with what I have right now. But uh yeah, I don't I don't know. I I think I don't know if I'm gonna do an amp change out anytime soon, and to be and to be honest, I I competed with and I know everybody bashes audio control, but I've had a great experience with them. I competed the first third of the first uh quarter of the season last year, and I have my audio control amps in, and they're just fine. I couldn't tell a difference between a lot of them. You know, they're all I think you get a certain level of of Class D, and I I can't tell much of a difference. It's not to say I'm the trained listener or anything like that, but uh I haven't had any problems with it. And I ran jail before that on amps, and I didn't have any problems with those amps. So, you know, I guess uh I'm not as concerned with amps. It's just to me, the amp is probably one of the least important parts of the game. I I know a lot of people won't agree with me that that's sort of my thought process on that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I agree. I've gotten into cars that had these um, you know, those one channel amps, I think they're called micro precision, and I was expecting to be blown away. And I honestly I really wasn't blown away. I wasn't I was like, yeah, the system sounded clean, sounded good, but um, you get to a level of diminishing results, you know, like once once you start.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I and I don't take anything away from this is a hobby, and when people get, you know, they get true enjoyment, and and just some of these systems are just they're just stunning. I mean, I look at them like, oh my god, gorgeous amps, they're beautiful fabrication, but like you said on the diminishing returns, I I just it's a hobby if you want to spend that kind of money, great. I think it's great. But I I've always been I I want to kind of do things with I want to try things with equipment that not everybody uses, or maybe they say it's not SQ or you know, whatever. So, but I I do appreciate, you know, uh some of the companies as far as the support goes, and you know, they it's just there's just so much out there. And like you said, we're talking about the information overload. You talk about information overload, go and just ask, hey, what kind of amp should I buy? And it's like, oh my gosh, it goes in hundreds and hundreds. Oh, you get this, you get that. I'm going, okay, this didn't help me at all.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yep. You know, you know what I've noticed about the internet is um you know what they say how everybody's got an opinion in their uh yeah, but uh what I've noticed is. That people some people just are just want to be so strong with their convictions. It's like, you know what? Just pick an amp and go with it. You know, pick pick a good amp. I picked my amps based on on the power and size. That's what I picked it on. Because I I honestly I had some old um Autison, some old Audison stuff. And um, but they were huge. The amps that I had, they fit really good in my old car. But when I got my new car, I was like, oh, these aren't gonna fit. So I started looking around for amps that had a footprint that would fit in my car. And I I ended up landing on the Muscone's, you know, and and I was like, and people are always bashing on the Muscone's, and I'm like, and get in my car. I I know people that had Moscone's and won tons of competitions with them. Oh yeah, well, did uh um like a test, he was testing amps, and he said that uh um I guess Moscone didn't do so well in the tests or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, and and and I'm like Oh yeah, like that in the Zapco, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, like like that's gonna stop me from buying Moscone when I've seen cars, big name uh competitors using Moscone, and and uh some people swear by Moscone. And I'm like, you know, unless you have ears like a bat, you're not gonna hear this distortion that this guy's talking about. And you know, not all distortion is bad or whatever, like, and people are like, Oh yeah, this story. And and they just talk smack about just because of this one guy. I'm like, really? You guys are gonna take this from you know, and I'm not taking anything anything away. You guys gotta take this information with a grain of salt, you know what I mean? Like, there's there's I've sat in plenty of vehicles that had Moscone setups and they sounded clean as a whistle.
SPEAKER_02Hey, you think you think Moscone is bad, buddy? Why don't you drive around some audio control after an SQ meet and see what happens?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I had audio control.
SPEAKER_02I I agree. Um, I I I will tell people, anyone listening who's thinking of getting into this, do not, do not go on Facebook and get your advice from that. It is just it's just horrible. There's some things I see are horrible. Oh, yeah. Get get something you like, get something that works for you, make sure the amp doesn't give you any noise and gives you good, clean power and just go with it, you know. But boy, you go on and ask a question, and I mean, like you said, it gets pretty nasty fast. And that's that's it's unfortunate because I think a lot of these people that they'll give recommendations and they're just parroting what someone else says. They're not gonna be able to do that. That's exactly what these like okay, okay, so you're trashing this. Well, have you ever even heard the amp? Have you had the amp in your car? You're sitting here trashing this, trashing that. You've probably never even listened to it. You heard so-and-so say so and so, and it it's it's really kind of funny. That's the one thing I haven't I don't really like about car audio, uh, as far as and I'm speaking as an outsider that's come in, is that I mean, it's just it's just horribly toxic. Oh people are just nasty, and like you said, they get on an opinion and they will hold that and they'll fight for it. I mean, it's like yeah, it's fight words. So that is baffling to me. So I I just have never understood that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, the the the biggest one. So I run Focal. I don't know if you've ever seen my setup, but I run Focal, and a lot the biggest um thing that people misconception anyway is um that focal has uh um harsh tweeters. That's that the uh what everybody says that their tweeters run hot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So like you ask anybody, like if you were to play a game, like if we had a uh one of those games that to associate words, and and
Amps Gear Myths And Internet Noise
SPEAKER_00somebody says uh Moscone, oh loud or uh noisy amplifiers, uh Focal, yeah, harsh tweeters, and um you know, and it's like no, you you guys are regurgitating and and parroting exactly stuff that you've heard. You've never even heard Moscone. Any tweeter can get harsh, any speaker can get harsh, regardless of material, soft dome, hard dome, um, beryllium, whatever they're running. Uh, and if you tune it wrong, it could be harsh. I I at the last meet, this guy had the same exact setup as I did. He had uh focal beryllium tweeters and the focal utopia mid-ranges, and he had them pretty much in the same configuration in the A pillars and the and the and the sale panels like I did, and his system sounded harsh because it wasn't tuned well. He got in my car and I said, Here, come listen to my car. And he's like, Oh my god, I didn't know my tweeters could sound like that. And I'm like, Yeah, you need to go back to the drawing board and retune your system. Any any tweeter, any speaker could sound harsh. I I can make your factory system sound harsh. So, you know, this this stuff that people regurgitate if from seeing it on the internet or hearing a you know a car that wasn't properly tuned, and then they think that every single speaker or or car system that has that setup is gonna sound like that. It's like, no, dude, it's not the reference for that particular brand, you know what I mean? And it's like I've had audio control. The only thing negative that I had with audio control was it clips hard. When it clips, it just goes silent, you know, turns off, and and uh that means you're pushing it too much, you're trying to get too much out of it. Every um, I don't care if you have a million-dollar system, every system has its limitations.
SPEAKER_02So and that's another thing people should focus more on, in my opinion. And obviously, I'm a two-year no-nothing, but don't focus so much on the gear. And I think that's where people I think people focus on that first, the brand name, and then they'll get it in and they're disappointed because they didn't do they didn't stick to the basics, the foundation. You know, make sure you, you know, you've you've done proper sound treatment, make sure your installs right, and then and then tune, tune, tune, tune. I mean, go and get a USB mic and learn Rumi Q Wizard, and you will be you will be better than 90% of the people out there if you just focus on this thing, and then it won't matter what you know, be happy with the gear you got, you know, or or take it as far as you can, and then you're you'll know when I'm like, okay, I gotta improve my speakers or I gotta do something on this, do something on that. But I think people go at this a little backwards. They focus on getting just this high-end stuff right off, and they think they're just gonna have this magic sounding vehicle. And it's like, you you went at this the wrong way, in my opinion, anyway.
SPEAKER_00So oh, definitely. That actually that's what I wanted to end this on. That's what I was gonna wrap this up on. Uh we've been going for a while, haven't we? Uh yeah, we've been going for a little over an hour. So I told you it goes by real quick.
SPEAKER_02The uh the the the 10 or so people that that tune in to me to listen to me talk, they'll have, you know, maybe they'll still be here.
SPEAKER_00But um well, you know, along those lines, that's what I was gonna ask you. What advice, you know, to wrap this show up, what advice do you have for beginners? Like what where should they start? Biggest mistakes that uh beginners make, what's worth spending money on, you know, stuff like that. And what's what's not worth chasing? What do people kind of, you know, some people really obsess over, like cables or or sound treatment? Like what was your experience and what advice do you got for beginners?
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm not gonna, I won't get into, you know, whether uh cables, any of that. I mean, uh, to me, take what you have, take your the locations you have. Probably one of the first things you should do is is what everybody regrets doing. Go get go research it, get a good quality uh sound treatment, at least at a basic level. There's plenty of resources out there, and boy, that you can get into some conversations on CLD. But um and and then uh understand what what's happening with the system. Like I said, it learn to tune. If the it you have to first know what you're tuning for. You have to get and go to like these get togethers and know the goal that you're trying to achieve, and know that you want to do this yourself. If you don't, it's like I said, it's a labor of love. If you don't want to do it yourself, go talk to some of these pro tuners or some of these pro people that do this, get their recommendation for gear, have that put in and have and have them do your tune, and then just be happy. And then, even like for if you if you're not gonna compete, and most people don't, remember you got to keep it in perspective. The the guys that are competing, these guys are at high, high levels. The things they do to their cars, they cut holes. I mean, they're insane. And you know, it's funny, I'll see people talk about, oh, I gotta get a front sub. And I'm like, well, you have no idea if you need a front sub. Have you even seen your response from your subs, what you have now, to see if you need a front sub, or you just automatically think you need a front sub. So just focus on what you have, focus on the principles, the foundation, the good install, the good sound treatment, and then tune, tune, tune. And then you're gonna know one day, you're like, man, these speakers are, you know, they're breaking up at this, or they're just not, they're not extending where I want. And then you can start researching good gear, you know, because there's just so much out there. So that would that's that's would be my advice, you know. Keep it simple. You don't have to go crazy expensive. And um, there's a lot of really, really excellent budget gear out there. 85%, 90% of people are not gonna have any idea what brand you have in your car unless you show them. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00So definitely. That's one of the reasons the uh the judges don't even look at um at what's inside your car. You you know, most people keep yep, they'll even hide now.
SPEAKER_02They're hiding speakers, you know, they're hiding the Twitter locations and and how they're aimed and everything like that. So yeah, that's that would be the biggest thing. It's hard to do. You want all the shiny toys, you want the fancy amps, you see all these things in the car shows, you're like, oh my god, you know, get a helix, you're you're gonna be magic, you know. And yeah, I I bet most of people, most of the people that even have some of these DSPs, they're not even utilizing 20% of what that DSP is capable of.
SPEAKER_00So oh, definitely, yeah. A lot of the stuff that they have is is overkill, you know. Like, but you know what? I look at it like I once heard another podcaster say this, you know, it's funny you mentioned that because um, you know, we don't drive by like a two million dollar house and yell out the window, snake oil, snake oil. You know, that's there's levels to this shit, you know what I mean? Like there's levels, yes, there's levels. If you if you if all you can afford is Rockford Fosky audio control or or you know used equipment, you're still gonna have a good sounding system if tuned correctly, you know. Like just because this guy's got you know Accuton and and and uh micro precision doesn't mean that his system is gonna just blow you out of the water. That guy had to put just as much effort, if not more, as you did. You know what I mean? So it's all you know, it's all about whatever you can afford. I mean, uh I always mention Ryan. I wouldn't say lower cost set setups, you know, but he's got what is um achievable for most of us out there, you know, like um oh absolutely, absolutely. He he obviously has the ideal car, you know, that his car is the only car that's ideal. If you have the ideal platform, could be truck, could be car, whatever. You got lucky with the with the locations and you have uh spots for a large mid-bass, and and the car is relatively uh rattle-free to begin with, like a Lexus's or a Mercedes, or you know, even some like Volvo stuff like that. They're higher quality materials, so you don't have to um go nuts with sound treatment like on a cheap car, like a like a like a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla, where you just gotta go nuts with the sound treatment. One of the things he's done is he's just uh tune, tune, tuned. He's gone in there and he's constantly experimenting with tunes and locations and and uh he's gotten and gotten sponsored by Excelsius, and they send them beta speakers and he tests them and and he's tested several different speakers, you know, and and I think one of his favorites is Excelsius because they do make good stuff. I have Excelsius. Yeah, one of the biggest things is is just tuning, tuning, tuning, you know, getting in there and just just ringing out what you have, trying to ring out every last drop.
SPEAKER_02It's like anything else. Practice makes perfect. You can't just go in and do it one time and think it's gonna be magic. You gotta keep going at it. Yeah, practice, listen, practice, listen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that beginners make, because that's one of the biggest mistakes that I made was go in there and I think that I needed to change my component. I would I would go in there and be like, damn it, this mid-base sounds like crap. Let me change it. Oh, damn it, that the the other one sounded better. Let me put it back. And and changing things. And if I was to add up all the money that I spent over the years on on this same car, I mean, I probably could have bought my car three times
Beginner Advice Worth Following
SPEAKER_00over, you know what I mean? And or I could have had the world's best system from the from the get-go. That's sort of one of the fun parts about this hobby, is the journey, is learning and and experimenting.
SPEAKER_02And I I'm guilty of it too. I have gone through some some stuff. My wife, my wife stopped asking what the Amazon packages were covered. You know, she just thankfully she was good with that. So, but yeah, it's it's the same thing, whereas they don't realize, you know, learn what what is truly doing. Changing your speaker out is not it, it's not gonna help your mid-base if it's not in phase. You know what I mean? So you gotta learn the principles and the foundation of what happens and then then start chasing the gear. But hey, everybody does it their own way, and ultimately it's what makes people happy. That's what it is. It's not what someone else told me I should do, it's what I should do.
SPEAKER_00So oh, exactly. Yeah, some people want to do that journey, some people want to wanna change uh their systems, like we change socks. And I see it all the time. Like he calls himself Rick Wilson, Luke. Luke from uh Dyma, Luke Outlet. He had an awesome system last year. Speaking of Moscone, all his stuff was all his amps were Moscone last year, and uh, you know, for a good three or four years already. Luke won a bunch of trophies, but he's running noisy Moscone amps, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but um that's what they say.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So yeah, he he was winning all these competitions with those crappy Moscone amps. He he recently uh switched up to like micro precision and bracks amplification, and he's got the bracks.
SPEAKER_02I I have I have seen his setup. I I would love to take a uh one day and just have him teach me about fabrication and and I mean that that amp rack he did in his truck is just stunning.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's unbelievable. He's a sticker. Oh yeah, yeah. He's he's he's definitely honed his craft because he's he's come a long way. And uh because I saw his truck you know evolve over the years and I've met him, I've listened to a system, it sounds great. I would have been happy with his system that he had last year. I wouldn't have touched it. And he switched everything up. And any anybody looking in from the outside in, you know, in this bubble that we live in would be like, these guys are crazy. He's got a beautiful, you know, like it's like it's like saying to somebody, why is he changing that Lamborghini for a for a uh uh a Bugatti? You know, it's just it's just some people want to, you know, because it's a hobby and it's a thing he enjoys. Yeah, exactly. You know, and if he's got the means and he, you know, he's got the money to do it, more power to him. So you know, I don't agree. I don't hate on people that can afford micro precision or bracks like that, you know what I mean? And and it's funny how we all judge each other, how we all spend big money on our systems, and we're like, I would never buy micro precision. And it's like, you know, there's people that are running, you know, Rock for Foscate or or uh or audio control, and they're saying the same thing about us. I would never buy utopias, I'd never buy Excelsior. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02So you're a snob, you're a snob.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It cracks me up that we all we all talk smack and we all like like we all judge each other, but we you know, there's levels to this. Like I said, I don't drive by somebody's house and uh who's got a two million dollar house and be like snake oil, snake oil.
SPEAKER_02Well, just remember, two two years ago, I would I would have I would have just laughed in your face if you told me I'd spent $800 on car audio. Boy, how things have changed. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. I won't put I won't put numbers out. It's probably nowhere near what their those micro precision amps are, but uh, you know, hey. I'm gonna have it hard on some stuff myself.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we all have.
Wrap-Up And Thanks
SPEAKER_00And that's that's the fun of it. So you're always chasing that high, you know. You're always chasing that that next percent. All right, Kamel, I think we're gonna wrap it up. I think we definitely got enough material for a podcast. I want to thank you. Everybody, thank Kemel. So, Kenel, thank you. I'm gonna wrap it up and say goodbye to everybody, okay?
SPEAKER_02Uh uh, thank you, everyone. Uh, I appreciate you tuning in and we'll talk to you later.
SPEAKER_00Okay, hang on tight, all right.