Why So Serial?
A Former Police Detective and His Son Discuss Cases of Serial Killers with a Fresh and Entertaining Perspective.
Why So Serial?
Ladykiller (Ted Bundy)
Who was the real Ted Bundy? Not the charming law student with the winning smile, but the predator who methodically hunted young women across America in the 1970s. We peel back the layers of one of history's most notorious serial killers, examining how he confessed to killing 30 women while investigators believe the number could exceed 100.
The story of Bundy isn't just about the monster—it's about the mask he wore. With his psychology degree and political ambitions, Bundy shattered the stereotype of the social outcast serial killer. He appeared normal, even admirable to many who knew him. This meticulously crafted persona allowed him to approach victims with his arm in a fake cast, asking for help loading items into his Volkswagen Beetle before attacking.
Perhaps most heartbreaking is the story of Liz, Bundy's longtime girlfriend who discovered disturbing evidence in their shared home—surgical gloves, a meat cleaver in his car, women's clothing that wasn't hers. She repeatedly reported her suspicions to police, but they couldn't imagine the clean-cut law student as a brutal killer. This catastrophic failure of imagination allowed Bundy's killing spree to continue across multiple states.
The podcast also details Bundy's dramatic prison escapes, his escalating violence at Florida State University's Chi Omega sorority house, and his final capture. We examine how his narcissism took center stage during his televised trial where he represented himself, and how he finally confessed to his crimes in third person—a final act of psychological distancing from his own monstrosity.
Beyond the gruesome details, we remind listeners that this story belongs to the victims—Linda Healy, Donna Manson, Susan Rancourt, and dozens more whose lives were cut short by a man who viewed them as objects for his satisfaction. Their stories deserve to be remembered, not overshadowed by the killer who took them.
Listen now to understand how someone so outwardly normal could commit such terrible crimes, and why Ted Bundy's case remains a chilling warning about the masks monsters wear. Subscribe, share, and join us as we explore why seemingly ordinary people sometimes harbor the darkest of secrets.
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Here we go. Oh yeah, the boys are back in town.
Speaker 2:Welcome back y'all, this is the greatest podcast on the face of the planet.
Speaker 1:Why so Serial? Hey fool, this is episode three. Lay killer, let's go Go. Let's go, take it away boys.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to why so Serial. We are reporting live from our kitchen table. Oh, we ain't even live because we suck so bad that we can't even do it live. Oh, anyway, we're back. This is why so Serial, and this is episode three, lady Killer yeah, I thought that was pretty clever anyway. Uh, today we're going to be talking about theodore robert bundy. You ever heard the case of ted bundy soaring?
Speaker 2:not really vaguely yeah, he, uh, I will say ted bundy has been highly requested by our like four followers on social media, so shout out to them yeah, shout out the followers, all four of yous. Um, this is going to be a fun case to cover. It's a big one. It was really, really popular. He's one of the most arguably well-known serial killers. Um ted confessed to killing 30 women between 1974 and 1978. But really, like the last two we've talked about, the number is likely higher than that 30? 30.
Speaker 1:Like 3-0.
Speaker 2:3-0.
Speaker 1:3 times 10.
Speaker 2:3 times 10? Yeah, good job. Good job, dude. Just for that I'm going to give you a Awesome yeah. Yeah, good job, stuart. Yeah, so Ted Bundy's confirmed victims are 20 to 30. Really depends on the source you're getting it from. This was covered by so many different people, so many different ways and again it's the time frame too it's the 70s. So um between 20 and 30, depending on you at who you ask um. By his own account, his own confessions um 30 murders across seven different states. Now investigators, from an investigative standpoint, they believe the real number is closer to 35 or even 100 plus. Um, and I did see there's a couple of netflix specials, like I said about him. Um and and one thing that's been really popular through a lot of his interviews is he's talking to um one person. He's like he's talking about the 30 number. He says if you add one digit to that, what you'll have it that's like 300 it could be.
Speaker 2:Um, my guess is he probably meant like 130, like throw a one in front of it, but um, you know, it's not really known for sure, but but he used a lot of that cryptic language and kind of danced around the truth without fully admitting it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of like Israel.
Speaker 2:Sort of. But I'll kind of go into detail a little bit more about what he did when he confessed and when he told his story he liked to dance around without saying like I killed that woman, this is how I killed her. But yeah, we'll get into that. So let's go into a little bit of his background. I am not a psychologist, nor will I pretend to be one on a podcast, but, like I said, he was born Theodore Robert Cowell, uh, in 1946 in burlington, vermont. Interestingly enough, um, this is the what, second or third time we've talked about vermont on this podcast in three episodes, which is crazy to me because I don't know if I've ever actually said the word vermont before we started this I don't think there is vermont in homes, though that was connecticut true, true, two for three, though same thing though yeah, he was um, raised by his grandparents and he believed that his mother was his sister.
Speaker 2:So I don't know exactly. Maybe she had him at a young age or something, but he thought his, his mother, was his sister, um, and then he showed a lot of early signs of antisocial behavior. He never really fit in when he was a kid, depending on who you ask. If you ask him, he would say he's the most popular kid on the block, champion frog catcher at Washington.
Speaker 1:Frog catcher.
Speaker 2:He said he was the best on the block at catching bullfrogs. That's insane, bro.
Speaker 2:He told this elaborate story when he was talking about himself and he was like, yeah, I'd see those beady eyes staring across the pond and snatch, that was gotcha, I was I was the best in town at catching them there, frogs, uh, but yeah, anyway, um, he had this escalating fascination with just control, dominance, uh, and then later he got into um violent pornography, which, um is just sexually explicit material, um, but kind of like the violent uh forms of that. Uh, he was a law student in a psychology major. He actually had a psychology degree from the university of washington, um, and worked on political campaigns, uh, I don't know exactly who's, I can't remember whose campaign he worked on, but um, he had the ability, as he was in his adult life, to um really fit in and show up like, like you know, with these people. There was high-profile people there and he could just fit in. He was very charismatic, he looked like a normal guy, he was attractive to a lot of people.
Speaker 1:I will say one thing I wonder if he became a serial killer, because like I mean like 9 to 5, like it's like normal, like like normal working.
Speaker 2:maybe he didn't want to fit in maybe, um, but let's learn a little more about him and I really want to want to hear, uh, what you feel about him, uh, more, after you learn more about him. Um, he uh, like I said, just a really personable guy. Uh, he fit in a lot of social circles, um, and there wasn't, uh, if you, if you knew, a lot of people had really good things to say about him.
Speaker 2:One guy was quoted as saying he was the type of guy that you'd want your sister to marry what he was just like people liked, liked him, he was smart, he was good looking, um, you know, and at that time that's he was the man. Yeah, um, when he worked on these, uh, political campaigns though he was like a political spy, he was like they would send him to the other campaigns, like little rallies and stuff, and he would just like be writing notes in the back about what they were saying and stuff like that. Yeah, but totally normal looking guy outwardly to most people. Most people thought he was friendly, thought that, you know, they liked him and thought he was, you know, attractive for whatever reason. I can't really comment on that because it's not really my, my cup of tea personally, but, um, yeah, so that's just a little bit about his background. Not we, we want to focus more on on what he did, not who he was. Yeah, but ted bundy's story is one. It's so crazy and so much happens. You can really tell it in any order that you want to. So I want to start and I want to introduce you to somebody who's going to be very important in all of this.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we're going to meet a young lady. Her name is Liz, 24 years old, recently divorced and works at a secretary in the University of Washington School of Medicine, because right now we're in Washington State. Yeah, okay, all right. She's smart, she's kind and she's just kind of tired. In general, life has not really gone how she planned, yeah.
Speaker 2:Then he walks in, a young dude in a sport coat Tall, handsome, got clean, cut hair, good looking, confident, but not too flashy, but just enough for him to stand out in this bar full of grad students and drifters. But he buys her a drink, smiles his smile, asks about her daughter, her job, her dreams, and he listens to her, really listens. This man is Ted. Ted makes her feel seen and you know, with her being kind of stressed out about life and kind of down, finally there's a man who's listening to her and she feels seen. And sometimes that's what women want is to be seen by somebody and to be heard by somebody. Yeah, you know, they talk until last call. She invites him home, he doesn't even make a move. He walks her inside, he tucks her into bed, kisses her goodnight and he leaves.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Sounds romantic, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But almost too perfect. What Liz didn't know is that this wasn't just the beginning of another relationship, but this was the beginning of quite literally a nightmare, because this charming stranger she just met was already becoming a monster as we know, and she's sleeping next to him, becoming a monster as we know him and she's sleeping next to him Now. He met Liz in 1969. But let's go ahead and start talking about murder. That's why we're here. Yeah, right, yeah, we wouldn't know who Ted Bundy was without murder. So, 1974 in the states of Washington and Oregon. Let's talk about some of his first victims.
Speaker 2:Linda Ann Healy, january 31st, university of Washington student. She disappears from a basement room, blood on her pillow, no signs of fourth century. Now, remember, this is back in 1974. So we couldn't. There wasn't. Dna isn't what it is today. Um and ted, originally um wasn't leaving much behind, right and there was. There was no reason to believe he was doing all this. So, yeah, linda was 1974 in january. Donna manson she went to evergreen state college, vanished walking to a concert. Susan rancourt, april 17th, central washington state college. Disappeared after meeting with her about a dorm advisor job. A dorm advisor is just somebody that kind of like helps new people moving into college or whatever to the dorms wait.
Speaker 1:So how far is that um like greenville or whatever college from washington state? How close are they together?
Speaker 2:um. This is all. All this takes place in was State or in Oregon.
Speaker 1:Okay, all of these murders, is that one in Oregon? It was like Greenville or something.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm going to tell you I do research, but I didn't look up where Evergreen State College was. It's one of those two. All right, either Washington or Oregon. Let's see when were we. Susan Rancourt, central Washington State. That's the one I just said. Okay, we don't need to say that again. He didn't kill her twice. Man, that's messed up. You can't laugh about this girl's death I wasn't laughing.
Speaker 1:No, I was laughing about the part where you were saying oh yeah, I know, I know I'm just playing.
Speaker 2:Okay, roberta Parks, oregon State University student, so that one's in Oregon.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know that. She left to meet some friends at a coffee shop. Never got there. Brenda Ball June 1st she was seen leaving a tavern which is like a bar and burying Washington. She was seen leaving a tavern which is like a bar and burying Washington. George Ann Hawkins, june 11th disappeared from an alley behind University of Washington's sorority house.
Speaker 2:Why would you be in the alley. So when this started happening, dude, it was chaos, because there's all these young, pretty college girls vanishing off the face of the earth. Very little evidence left behind other than some blood on a pillow wait, so is that one girl that disappeared in the alley.
Speaker 1:Um, um, like. Are you going in like chronological order? Yeah all right. So if they were around her, I would feel like that would be on the news or something yeah, this don't go wandering in dark alleys by yourself this all happened between january and june of of uh 1974 that makes no sense. You, I mean, but like you have to have a little like, if you like see that college girls from your college or around your college are going missing, why would? Why would you be walking in a dark alleyway all by yourself?
Speaker 2:so I don't know how far away all these places were from each other, and that'd probably be a good thing for to look into, um, but it's also the 70s, so the only way you're getting news is through television but even if it's statewide yeah, um, and I think at the time they were advising people. You know, walk in pairs, do this. But let me just tell you, tell me, tell you how he would convince people.
Speaker 1:That charm and smile.
Speaker 2:That charm and smile. You're exactly right, dude. Like I said, he was a handsome guy. And these are college girls, they're young, they're pretty, they're trying to meet men because everybody wants to get married, start a family. And this well-educated, well-spoken, um handsome dude comes up to you, uh, and what he used to do, dude, is, um, he would uh put his arm in like a fake cast or use crutches, um, and he had this, uh, volkswagen beetle. You know what a beetle is right?
Speaker 2:yeah so, but it was like in the 70s and they were so popular back then, um, but he had like this rust colored, like light colored ugly, v-dub, beetle, um, and he would ask them like hey, um, my arm is broken, uh, can you help me load this whatever into my car? Um, because you know, like my arm ouch, and they would help him because you know people generally want to help other people and people are nice, right, yeah, um, and he would either hit them over the over the head to incapacitate them, uh, or strangle them. That was his mo when it came to kill him with blunt force trauma, which is, you know, hitting somebody over the head with something was there a certain object that like?
Speaker 1:did he use like the same object every time, or do we?
Speaker 2:know it was. He was very opportunistic when it came to weapon, um, but um, dude, the the thing about it is he would, he would take their bodies and he would just dump them, uh, in wooded areas. There was no regard for them as women, um, as human beings, and he would go to areas like taylor mountain there and in isaac and just dump their bodies. But the most effed up part about it is he would often go back to the scenes where he dumped their bodies and perform certain acts that I'm not going to go into detail about on this show, but he would perform certain disgusting acts on the bodies himself.
Speaker 1:It's messed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to say the least. I mean, realistically, the planning and the control over these women and just the cold detachment for him. He was a hunter. He was hunting women for a number of years. What I want to talk about in a little more detail is a case that took place at Lake Sammamish. Is that what it's called Lake Sammamish? Is what it's called Lake Sammamish?
Speaker 1:Lake Samantha Lake.
Speaker 2:Samantha, sure, but it's Lake Sammamish State Park and that's in Washington. Two women were abducted in broad daylight Janice Ott and Denise Naslin, and this is where I mean, this was bold dude.
Speaker 1:Were they like, together in a group or each separately same day that they were together.
Speaker 2:Um, and he was, there was. This is where witnesses started to see him oh yeah, he was going around with his, his casted up, you know, with his tan V-dub beetle, and people saw him and he was using his real freaking name.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Ted Witnesses gave the name Ted.
Speaker 1:Dude, that's so dumb.
Speaker 2:Like and I don't know if it was just his ego he was so cocky about it that he felt comfortable enough to use his real name.
Speaker 1:I mean Ted and Theodore. I mean I guess it's a little different. I mean I would connect the dots.
Speaker 2:But he went by Ted. Everybody knew him as Ted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like if you tell your friends you're ted and you tell the people you're killing that you're ted.
Speaker 2:Don't do that I mean dang dude like like being your friends. Yo, what's up, I'm theo or like to the um theo, like change the first letter, like to fred something, man. But this was. There's all these murders happening. These two girls go missing, and in broad daylight, at a state park full of people, and this doo-doo head is walking around. Doo-doo head, I don't know, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to keep it clean. So doo-doo head was the.
Speaker 1:Poo-poo head. Poo-poo head.
Speaker 2:Poo-poo head. Ted, you got poopoo head going around giving his real name, but thankfully he did, because this is the first major break in the case, because now people saw him, yep, so they can come up with a composite sketch which is back in the day. That was. That was it man. You saw somebody, and somebody was sitting in front of you with a pencil and they were like all right, describe him to me. And they would draw a picture and somehow in the sketch actually did look decently like him, like him, um, and this is kind of where the fbi can start to build their profile, um, and say you know, this is some kind of organized killer who's intelligent, you know, white, male, mobile, he's got a car, um, he's got a scheme and he's confident in social settings, uh, and different than the most serial predators. Because you think about the standard, aside from people like Israel Keys and stuff like that, a lot of your stereotypical serial killers or serial predators of any kind are usually outcasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not very good in social settings in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1:And usually serial killers are smart, not this one, absolute buffoon so that's the.
Speaker 2:That's the crazy part about ted bundy, because and I'll talk a little more about his like, what he is capable of but he was smart, he's educated, he's got a degree in psychology. He's smart, he was. He went to law school to become a lawyer, um, but he did some really stupid things that same thing.
Speaker 1:That's like what I'm saying, even like with aj holmes. He went to medical school, did all that, but when it comes to murder, absolute stupid. Yeah, he's stupid than um flipping homes yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not wrong dude. At this point this dude's gonna be like a two on the intelligence let's give him a chance.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah, it doesn't get much better. He, he, like ebbs and flows. He'll like be at 10 one second and then a two again. So, um, you know, but you, thankfully, he, he did slip up like he did, or whatever, because how many more women were going to die? This is not the last of his killing, this isn't it. Ted Bundy is playing chess right now with these victims and they're playing checkers, but he still loses in the end because he a stupid doodle head, poopy head. But let's go revisit our friend Liz huh. All right, you want to talk about Liz again?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I got some stuff to share about her. Okay, so imagine this dude. You've been dating someone for years. He's charming, he's smart, he makes you laugh, helps you raise your child. You've pictured your whole, entire future with this person. Um, and then imagine you open his, his drawer, like his dresser drawer, and you find a sack full of women's clothes that don't belong to you.
Speaker 1:What Wait? He's been dating Liz for years.
Speaker 2:He met her in 69. Remember, this is 74.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 2:Five years Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Wait, but like how. I mean I would suspect something If he was like has she never been in his car with Cass?
Speaker 2:There's more, oh, there's more. This is where liz found herself. Liz klepfer was her name, by the way. I've just been calling her liz liz klepfer. Later in her own memoir she calls herself liz kendall um, but this is where she found herself. She'd been dating ted for years. Little by little, stuff started to feel weird. That was the first step. Then it was other things a bowl full of keys like house keys dude, he really is a fiend who keeps that many keys right?
Speaker 2:imagine you're Liz at this point. You find a bowl full of keys. Why would Ted need all these keys? Then she found crushes in the closet. He ain't never broke his leg Right Icing on top. She finds a meat cleaver, not in the kitchen, in his car, in the glove compartment.
Speaker 1:Dude, what Wait? Please don't tell me there's blood on it.
Speaker 2:Nope. All right, there's not. But also in the car she found surgical gloves.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Ski mask, rope, handcuffs and a lug wrench wrapped in cloth. So that was. You asked about weapons, about weapons lug wrench dude. He's so dumb but she asked him about it and he said I've been doing some construction no worse.
Speaker 2:He was like oh, I was just, uh, the clothes. I went, I went to to goodwill and, uh, I was doing a donation run and the rope was going skiing. Oh, he had an excuse for everything. Yeah, he was smarter than everybody, so he had an excuse for everything. Right, but she couldn't shake it. She let it go, but she couldn't shake that bad feeling. But she's reading the news. Girls are going missing all over Washington State Women with long brown hair parted down the middle who looked a lot like her Mm-hmm and Ted. He drove a tan Volkswagen Beetle, just like they were talking about on the news.
Speaker 1:Yep. At Lake Sammamish Park when those girls went missing, janice and Denise just like they were talking about on the news at Lake Sammamish Park when those girls went missing, Janice and Denise. The one thing I will say if you're going to be a serial killer, drive a common car. Drive a white Holler Civic. Don't be driving. No, who gets it in tan?
Speaker 2:I don't know man, Maybe that's what was on the lot.
Speaker 1:No, it wasn't.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:Like pick, like a white, red or blue or black, I don't know, or silver, I'm not saying he did it right, I'm just telling you the story.
Speaker 2:I know so, but here's what she did In 1974, Liz did something incredibly brave, okay, and also heartbreaking for her. Because I feel bad for Liz, because you know we can talk all the crap about how terrible Ted Bundy was, but from her perspective she has no idea all this stuff's going on.
Speaker 2:She's in love with this man. He's helped her raise her child and this is, in her eyes, the man she's going to spend the rest of her life with. But when she sees the news story, it's the same color bug. The sketch looks a lot like him. He's saying his freaking name is Ted Dude. What she does is she calls the police. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yes, give Liz an applause.
Speaker 2:Let's give her one. Let's give her one. Let's give her one. Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. Do I have an?
Speaker 1:applause yes, you do.
Speaker 2:Where? Oh, there it is. Yeah, let's go, liz. Let's go, liz. That's for you girl. She gives him Ted's name, his full name, and reported everything that she found. But let's talk about doo doo heads. The police said we don't think he fits the profile what he's a law student, he's clean cut, he's a nice guy, he's smart.
Speaker 2:He wouldn't do that yeah dude, I thought ted was dumb but not only did she call that one time and the police were acting like doo-doo heads, she called multiple times. She couldn't let it go. She would eventually even keep going through his apartment when he wasn't home, and the deeper she dug, the more scared she got and they said he didn't fit the profile, which I hope at some point they looked back and really regretted it, because maybe they could have saved all these girls lives. Maybe not, but go ahead.
Speaker 1:He matches the sketch kind of, even if it's a kind of, you have to take it into perspective same car, same name, same last name. Even if it's a kind of you have to take it into perspective Same car, same name, same last name, what Wait?
Speaker 2:They didn't get the last name, but same name.
Speaker 1:Wait, now, wait, you said his birth name. He had a different last name or something, Because his mom was his sister.
Speaker 2:His name's Ted Bundy.
Speaker 1:Okay, but like I'm saying, like that makes no sense, Like how dumb of a police officer do you have to be?
Speaker 2:I can tell you from my own investigative experience if I had a lead that was that hot, I would run that thing down until I couldn't anymore.
Speaker 1:Did Liz tell them about the cleaver in the car?
Speaker 2:she told them about all that stuff, so I don't care, I was a noble pig in the car dude, I know when I got tips on people. I don't care if it's the freaking pope, bro, I'm going to run it out until I can prove he wasn't the person.
Speaker 1:Exactly bro.
Speaker 2:Right. But here's what really shakes you man is, even after reporting this, even after he ends up getting arrested later in Utah for something I'm about to tell you about, she still loved him, she still went to visit him, she still wrote to him but, like I said, he wasn't just a killer to her, he wasn't just this terrible person to her.
Speaker 1:He was her lover he was her lover.
Speaker 2:He was the guy who tucked her daughter in at night dude, that's creepy very, and you know, ted was wearing this mask and it fooled the police.
Speaker 2:But liz started to see the cracks in this mask and it fooled the police, but Liz started to see the cracks in this mask and she tried to warn us about it and they didn't listen to her. So let's talk about now where Ted starts to escalate things. He moves to Colorado to start law school and I'm sorry I might be wrong on that, hold on. I thought he already start law school and, um, I'm sorry I might be wrong on that, hold on let me check no, he wasn't finished law school.
Speaker 2:I was just saying in general that, um, yeah, you know he moved to I'm sorry it was salt lake city um, in utah, to attend law school there. Um, but these next four murders this is after after what we just talked about happened happened in Utah and Colorado Nancy Wilcox, october 2nd, 1974, banished in Utah. Melissa Smith, october 18th, police chief's daughter. Body was found nine days later. Laura Amy, last seen at a Halloween party. And Debbie Kent, november 8th, abducted after a high school play. So all these girls in roughly one month, four women.
Speaker 1:That's insane.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Well, that one was just a girl. She's still in high school, mm-hmm, yep, horrible.
Speaker 2:This is where Ted's MOO starts to to get more violent. He starts using handcuffs, bondage, where he's like time time the women up and torturing them before murdering them. But there's a key moment with his increase in violence and all that, he gets increasingly confident and careless. He's going to slip up, impersonates a police officer and tries to abduct Carol Durant on November 8th, which is the same day that Debbie went missing after that high school play. He tries to impersonate the police, but she's able to get away. She sees him and she can ID him.
Speaker 2:Yep, he definitely had the worst police can ID him.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, dude. He definitely had the worst police costume, bro.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some Walmart.
Speaker 2:And he had the. He probably had the cast on too.
Speaker 1:With the little plastic badge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he probably had the police spelled wrong it was like P-O-O-L. Police. Oh, stupid dude, oh man, gosh dang bro. So in um in, sorry, in august, uh, august 16th of 1975, um so almost a year after that he's pulled over by police in Utah and he's got ski mask, crowbar and handcuffs in the car and he's acting real strange and eventually he's convicted for that attempted abduction.
Speaker 1:I was talking about yeah, yeah for the uh that attempted abduction I was talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but liz is by his side through that, that whole trial, and he continues to maintain that he's innocent with her and that this is all one big misunderstanding. And she, but she, remains by his side. Um, all the way, and he's eventually convicted for it did he ever get charged for impersonating a police officer?
Speaker 2:I don't know if he did or not. Um, I'm gonna assume that was probably one of the charges in there. Um, but he um, while he's in in jail in utah, in Utah, he gets a visit from his attorney and his attorney is like bro, I thought I told you not to talk to anybody.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:He's like I didn't talk to nobody. What are you talking about? He's like the police came to talk to me. I told him I'd never been to Colorado Because the police in Colorado are investigating those murders and they're hip. They get wind investigating those murders and they're hip. They get wind of this and they're like oh, this might be our guy.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:This might be our guy Right, and he's like I told him I've never been to Colorado and his lawyer's like they wanted you to say you haven't been to Colorado so they could catch you in a lie. You do to it. Now you're being charged't been to Colorado so they could catch you in a lie. You, doodoo head, Now you're being charged with murder in Colorado.
Speaker 1:Wait, I'm so confused.
Speaker 2:So he gets.
Speaker 1:Wait, didn't he get pulled over in Colorado?
Speaker 2:Utah. He gets pulled over in Utah. He gets convicted in Utah for that abduction that went wrong, where she got away for that abduction that went wrong, where she got away. But the police in Colorado for all these other murders he did, yeah, they're hip to it. So when they get wind of this, they're not letting him slide, they're not letting him get away. So sometimes as an investigator.
Speaker 1:Because you want them to say they've never been there.
Speaker 2:You want them to lie? You want them to. There would be. Sometimes I'm asking questions to a suspect and an interrogation and I'm just like in my head. I'm like, please lie, because the only thing that's better than a confession is a provable, fricking lie. Yep, they had his gas slips already. They had all this information, they knew he was in Colorado, so they slapped that warrant on him. Bring his tail back to Colorado and he's charged with murder.
Speaker 1:Now, this is where it gets fun. Huh, yeah, I did.
Speaker 2:While he's awaiting trial in Colorado for murder, he escapes not once, two times.
Speaker 1:He escapes.
Speaker 2:The first time he's in the courthouse, right, and they were letting him use the the law library. So in every courthouse there's like a library full of law books.
Speaker 2:It's called the law library yeah um, he had like been in there. Um, so he could. He was educated, he was a law student. He was going to defend himself through as much of this as it could. There was one point during the Carol Durant's trial that he actually objected when his attorneys refused to while a detective was on the stand. What? And actually like turned the whole tide of the trial at that time because he was able to articulate and argue and get this detective's testimony thrown out about a confession. He got his whole I'm using air quotes but confession alleged thrown out. He was not dumb, he was good at what he was studying. He did dumb things, but he was good at it. But while he was did dumb things, but he was good at it, but while he was in this law library. So picture this You're walking downtown by the courthouse and you see somebody flying out the second-story window and they hit the ground, take off running what? Yeah, he jumped out the window of the law library.
Speaker 1:How far did he get?
Speaker 2:He jumped out the window of the law library. No-transcript, Dude what?
Speaker 2:Yep, this is insane, yep so the guy on the street, he like runs and he like doesn't run, he like casually walks into the courthouse and he's like, hey, uh, so, uh, I was like uh, out there, you know, just walking down the street. Is it normal for someone to come out of the second story window? I'm not even kidding. And they were like um, excuse me, are you high on crack and drugs? Um, that's when they figure out like, oh crap, bundy got out. Um, and somebody like uh, when, when they told him, like, when that guy came in and said like hey, you know, somebody jumped out the window. Somebody was like hey, have you seen Bondi? And they were like, I don't know, it's not my turn to watch him.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile he's gone, bro, so he's on the run for a while. He actually gets caught because he steals a car and he's like almost out of town, but he turns around to come back. I don't know if he like forgot something, changed his mind or whatever, um, but he gets stopped by the police. Um, and they almost instantly recognized him. But, um, at this time he uh looked so much different. He had lost like 25 pounds in a week. He was really skinny, ted, it's. It's kind of funny with ted. That just makes me think of a good point.
Speaker 2:He was always changing his appearance, like slightly, but every slight change he made like it made like, uh, just based on how he looked. Um, like he just grew a little mustache, he looked a lot different, um, and it was what's crazy is like when he got arrested for for carol, that guy, that girl that he failed to abduct properly, yeah, um, he went in there and he, like, before he went in, he was like, yeah, yeah, I'll come in and do a lineup. He like shaved his mustache. Oh, he's like I don't know what you're talking about, dude like shaved his hair off and stuff. Yeah, idiot, like he had changed his appearance so much. They had to like find some. Like they had a lineup like prepared with people. They had to scramble and find different people at the last minute because he had changed his appearance so much. But anyway, yeah, they rearrest him. Um, but then at some point he gets real comfy in his jail cell and he decides that he is going to saw through. He's able to get his hands on something to saw through the roof.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:He saws around the light in the ceiling of his cell and where his cell was located in the prison it was like attached to a jailer's apartment. There was like apartments there. So he pops up like he's able to pop up through his cell into this dude's apartment, get a change of clothes and takes off.
Speaker 1:And this is.
Speaker 2:December 1977. At this point, all right, he takes off, and this is December 1977. At this point he takes off and later on he ends up in Florida at Florida State University, and this is where he said that he went to Florida and he picked Florida to go to because it was literally as far away from Washington, oregon, colorado that you could get in the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's literally a diagonal line.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like literally as far away as you could possibly get in the country. So he went to Florida and ends up at Florida State University and he figures maybe they don't know Ted Bundy down there, maybe they haven't heard my name yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Wait. So how long has he been on the run for at this point?
Speaker 2:He jets out in December. He makes a stop in Chicago. I think he took a stop in Chicago. Um, I think he took a. He took a bus to Chicago, gets on a plane and back then it was a little bit easier to like get around without being detected. He gets on a plane from Chicago to Atlanta and then he catches a bus from Atlanta to Florida, so yeah, and then ends up and ultimately now he's in Florida and we're looking at about January of 1978, so shortly after. And Ted finds himself at a sorority house, the Chi Omega sorority house, january 15, 1978. He breaks in around 3 am and he bludgeons and strangles Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman to death. Oh my God, yeah, you ask about weapons. He actually and this is where I say he was opportunistic when it came to his weapons he found a log outside, just like a log he could hold in his hand, probably the size of this bottle um, and beat them to death viciously oh my god two women and then there's two other women he beats savagely but they survive.
Speaker 2:Um, and literally this is one of those things where, like it happened back to back and um, luckily those two women survived, but two of them didn't Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman did not make it.
Speaker 2:Um, this was the most violent that he has been to date. He left bite marks on on their buttocks, on their butts oh my God Head trauma, and he took random objects and just did horrible things to these women. It was just disgusting. Brutal, just absolutely terrible. And you can't help but wonder if somebody would have done their job. Brutal, just absolutely terrible. And you can't help but wonder if somebody would have done their job in Colorado to keep him there in jail or in any of these other states, when you've got Liz, who was basically telling you like, here he is.
Speaker 1:Here's your guy. Wait, let me. They could have saved at least eight more people.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Right no.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, my math's not what it's all about Somewhere around there.
Speaker 2:It's a lot. And the very next week he's not done. He kills a 12-year-old girl. What? After doing absolutely horrible things to her, her name was Kimberly Leach Mm-hmm. She was murdered and he threw her body in a pig shit it's absolutely horrible it's just he, his absolute coldness and disregard for for people is just it's uh, it's man and it's mind-blowing really. But you know, doodoo Head's going to do Doodoo Head stuff and he gets pulled over driving a stolen car, again, again. He's the dumbest smart person ever. Wait. So where are we?
Speaker 1:at this point, still in January. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm sorry, february that was in February of Dang, so he's away at this point. Still in January.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, I'm sorry, february, that was in February of.
Speaker 1:Dang, so he was away for almost a month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know he's finally cornered by his own carelessness. But you know he was able to go to Florida. He goes into these bars and these college bars, into these bars and these college bars and he's he. He tells these sorority girls from florida state that he's a, a law student who's transferring there and he knows how to talk to people. He's charming, he's attractive, he's all of these things, um, and they trust him, um, and then he just brutally and savagely murders these women after that, yeah, it's horrible.
Speaker 2:But that was just what he did and he could not help himself. He later on would say something to the effect of like he would feel bad. He got pleasure out of this for many different reasons, but he said that he would feel bad in the moment, but he could not control it. He just had to have more, had to have more, had to have more and kept doing it, kept doing it. He said there was it's just, it's terrible man, but Florida I don't know what you know about Florida, but they don't mess around in Florida. They never have. Never will you do something in Florida, at least most parts of Florida.
Speaker 1:They're going to shoot you with a 12-gauge.
Speaker 2:You're going to get your butt in that chair, and not the comfy kind, the electric kind. Yeah, they're going to give it to you. The sheriff there, dude, he made this his opportunity to display Ted Like ha, we got him, we're not letting him go. He made personal visits to Ted's cell. Letting him go. He made personal visits to ted's cell. When they got the indictment. They marched him out in front of the press and read him the read the indictment out loud to him on national television. Yeah, but ted put on a show about it. He was like ah, there's an indictment there. Huh, cool, that's all you're gonna get, buddy, that's all you're to get that indictment.
Speaker 2:No, spoiler alert Ted gets the chair, the electric chair. But Ted's trial starts in 1980. It's televised nationally. This turns into a thing. Ted Bundy actually represents himself and does it well. He was very good in the courtroom while defending himself, but he played to the cameras like. This was his opportunity to show how smart and charming and he was. Um and dude. There was girls on television talking about how dreamy he was and how they were all fascinated by him, but they were also scared of him at the same time. Um, dude, it was a, a total show, but um. There was actually several moments, um, in this trial that were noteworthy, but one of them was he proposed to a woman, not Liz, but another woman named Carol Ann.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:During the trial Was Liz there?
Speaker 1:You said he was there through the trial.
Speaker 2:No, liz was not there, not for the Florida murders.
Speaker 2:Do that he. So, fun fact, when he was first arrested for that stolen car in Florida, he actually gave a fake name. He gave a name to somebody that actually existed. But the guy was like I'm not that guy that you have in prison over there for murder or for a stolen car. It was a stolen car at the time and they were going to connect into these murders later.
Speaker 2:But he, this went on for a long time and this went on for a long time. But eventually he offered to give his name and talk if he could call Liz. And he called Liz and told her and talked about the murders. So but yeah, he exchanged. They didn't know who he was. For a while they were like we don't know who this guy is, but we don't like it. But yeah, anyway, a while they were like we don't know who this guy is, but we don't like it. Um, but yeah, anyway, he um I'm not going to go into too much about the trial. There's some great netflix uh specials that go into the trial and stuff, um, but we got he's eventually sentenced to death.
Speaker 2:um, and he goes on this thing and is like you know, I'm being sentenced for a crime I did not commit, but later he does admit to committing 30-plus murders. And then he adds that reporter you know, possibly over 100. He did all this between 1974 and 1978, and he was executed in the electric chair January 24, 1989.
Speaker 1:But let me tell you, let me, we'll get to that, but I want to tell you a story first, and he was executed in the electric chair, january 24th 1989.
Speaker 2:But let me tell you, let me We'll get to that. But I want to tell you a story first.
Speaker 1:Because you like. How much of a doo-doo?
Speaker 2:head he is. So there was a After he was convicted in the dust settle. He got convicted of the sorority murders in Florida, florida State University, at the Kyle Mega House, and then he was also convicted for a 12 12 year old girl, kimberly leach. People were like, oh, why are you uh wasting the taxpayers dollars, you know uh taking him to trial for this other murder when he's already getting the electric chair? But this is when I say florida, don't mess around. This is what I'm talking about. The prosecutor for kimberly leach was like we want to make sure his butt is strapped in that chair. So if something happens with those other two, we're gonna let him ride to ride the lightning on this one yep where he's not getting away.
Speaker 2:We are not leaving it to chance and I respect him for that. Um, but anyway, this reporter goes to talk to him and he wants to get a confession from ted. Ted wants to talk about when he first starts talking to him. Wants to talk about everything under the sun except murder. He'll talk about it. This is where he's talking about I was king, bullfrog kitchen and all this stuff all this stupid stuff and he was talking about how he was like top Boy Scout.
Speaker 2:But then you'll see interviews on the Netflix specials where they were like he was literally the worst Boy Scout ever Couldn't tie a knot, couldn't shoot a bow, couldn't do anything right. I don't know if he ever called a fraud, but this reporter keeps going back over and over again and can't get him to talk about the murders. But he's having a burger one day and it's like I've got it, I've got an idea, I know how to get him to talk. He goes to the prison and is like Ted, you are a very educated man, you've got a degree in psychology. Very educated man, you've got a degree in psychology. I want you to tell me what type of person would do this stuff that they're accusing you of. What do they look like? How did they act? How were they raised? The reporter says he takes the recorder, holds it in his hand, cradles it, starts talking.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:And describes in third person about all the stuff he did and you can listen to all those tapes on the special on TV. He talks about everything, everything. This reporter is a G. That was brilliant.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Got Ted Bundy to talk about everything by making him do it in the third person. But you know, I hate to say legacy. But what do we have to take from Ted Bundy? He remains the archetype of the handsome psychopath, high-functioning sociopath, classic narcissist. Ted Bundy loved Ted Bundy and he wanted you to know who Ted Bundy was. He was God's gift, right.
Speaker 1:He was a buffoon. He was a buffoon.
Speaker 2:He was a buffoon, you're absolutely right. Um, no remorse for anything he did. He was a, a sadistic, violent killer. And you know, now he's got tons of Netflix specials. He's got there's a movie Zach Efron plays him, um, in a documentary film. Every podcast, including this one now, look at us has done it. But you know what man?
Speaker 1:Ted wasn't a genius, he was a coward with a mirror and the mask he wore, do you? Know who was more stupid than um who mr poopy head um? Who the police in not um colorado and utah the police up in white washington and oregon. Yeah, absolute buffoons.
Speaker 2:So I do have a question for you. You know we didn't go into a terrible amount of detail about crime scenes and psychology and all this stuff and we're just going through the case and we like to do that in less than an hour. But with what you know, soren, do you think there's obviously a big difference between today and 1974? Yeah, do you think if this same thing happened today versus 1974, do you think he would have been caught sooner?
Speaker 1:um, I don't think he, to be honest, I think he would have made it past those, but I think if he would have went to florida, someone would have shot him maybe no, I'm telling you like, if someone escapes prison now, dude, it's gonna be headlined on every news station. Yeah, even someone that could be in for like, like, a, like a big robbery, but still, but like someone convicted of multiple murders and like stealing and like all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, if someone saw him like at all anywhere in florida they're, they're getting the 12, that's what would happen. Yeah, especially in atlanta, dude, he would get.
Speaker 2:He would not survive atlanta, scare me, homie, and I can, I can handle myself. Atlanta, scare me, man. Hey, um, I don't know. I like to think that I, I would hope that if this was today, I don't think he makes it as long or racks up as many bodies, and maybe that's why we don't hear of as many serial killers. Knock on wood, but yeah, I would have. I like to hope to think that he would have been caught sooner than he was. But it's just, it's sad, man, because I really do feel like this case could have been closed much sooner. And then you got Liz doing what she did, um, and you know, just no resolution and the police failing to move on that.
Speaker 1:But liz is regina she's a.
Speaker 2:She's a real one, um, except for how long she supported him, but anyway. Oh yeah, let me add this one thing before he was executed in the electric chair, he did father a child with carol. He got her pregnant while he was on death row. What she went on an interview and said and I think he confirmed it that they would turn away and let them do things that make babies what her name was rose rosa bundy. Yeah, oh, my god, she might be listening to our podcast right now she might be, hey rosa if you out there, leave us a like and a comment much appreciated much appreciated.
Speaker 2:thank you, thank you, thank you, um, let's get to what's important. Last meal, he. I saw a couple of different accounts of this, but he didn't make a special request, so he got standard steak and eggs and hash browns.
Speaker 1:It's better than the last one.
Speaker 2:It is, I'll tell you what, depending on how that steak was cooked could be a pretty solid last meal medium.
Speaker 2:I think we need to do that one yeah, I'm down with that I say all that to say this that was the case of ted bundy, um, but like we've said before, um. This is not to highlight Ted Um. It is an interesting case. It is the reason. You know, serial killers are the reason we started this podcast. But this is for the victims and we can tell the story how we want to and not how the narcissist Ted Bundy wanted us to.
Speaker 2:So two of the victims Linda Healy, donna Manson, susan Rancourt, roberta Parks, brenda Ball, george Ann Hawkins, Janice Ott, denise Naslin, the girls in Florida I'm sorry we're still in Colorado Nancy Wilcox, melissa Smith, laura Amy, debbie Kent you know that's who this show is for. Kimberly Leach the young ladies at Florida State University that's who this show is for. Rest in peace to them. It's a shame that their life had to end at the hands of someone like the dude who hit Ted Bundy. But that's our show. We're going to hold off on the ratings just so we can keep this under an hour for you guys. What I can do is have Soren do his ratings. We'll post them on our Tik TOK and our Instagram. So go check out Soren's ratings on Ted Bundy. There you got any parting words for the people, soren.
Speaker 1:See y'all next time. Yo did y'all call that man a doodlehead. Y'all so lame, hey, but it was funny and I laughed. It's harder than a beeline.
Speaker 2:Anyway, if y'all like what you heard, follow the boys on TikTok, follow the boys on IG WhySoSerialPod and come back next time because this is why.
Speaker 1:So Serial. Ha ha, ha, ha ha.