I Don't Wish You Well

Grab your favorite drink and pull up a chair, because this week we are heading down to Moss Pointe, Louisiana, and things are getting messy. We’re diving into the twisty, suspenseful world of I Don’t Wish You Well by Jumata Emill.

We’re following Pryce Cummings—a gay, Black college journalist who returns to his hometown to start a true-crime podcast about the "Trojan Murders." Five years ago, the town thought they caught the killer, but Pryce isn't so sure.

What We’re Getting Into:

• Small Town, Big Problems: We discuss the corruption and homophobia lurking in Moss Pointe and how Jumata Emill tackles identity and prejudice without missing a beat of the suspense.
• The "I Don't Wish You Well" Energy: Who is actually the villain here? We discuss the motives of the masked killer and vent about the people in this town who definitely deserve the title of the book. How is justice served?

⚠️ Content Warning: This episode (and book) discusses mature themes including sexual assault and graphic violence. Please take care of yourself while listening!

#IDontWishYouWell #JumataEmill #BlackGirlsRead #YAMystery #TrueCrimeVibes #MossPointeSecrets

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Hey, hey, hey, book lovers. Welcome to Pot on the Rock, the podcast where representation is crucial and it's always for the flat.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

We're your hosts, Alicia Rickia and Tia, three friends dedicated to honoring the brilliance and the power of black appeal to the authors.

SPEAKER_06 0:17

We got some hot tape, some spoilers, don't worry, we'll always warn you, and deep combos on culture, identity, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Each week we dive deep into a new book, share our unfiltered thoughts, and celebrate the writers who are reshaping the literary world one story at a time.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

And fair warning, if you're here for a calm, quiet book club, this might not be what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_06 0:41

Grab your favorite drink, curl up with us, and let's talk books. The ones that move us, excite us, and keep us flipping pages way past our bedtime.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

So lower your expectations and let's get into the plot.

unknown 0:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Alright, well, welcome back to Plot on the Rocks, um, where we sip, spill, and unpack the stories everyone is talking about. And this one is a brand new book, actually, because I know the past couple books that we've read maybe like a year or two old, but this one just came out in January of this year. And today we're getting into I Don't Wish You Well by Jumata. Make sure I said that right. Jumata a meal, and there's tension, there's drama, and there's mess. And we sit down and talk about it. So you like messy friendships, morally gray like decisions. This episode is definitely for you. So let's go ahead and get into this real quick. So um, actually, before I even like go into a description of the book, describe the book in three words.

SPEAKER_06 1:48

I said layered, emotional, and very honest.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Okay. Now how about you, Tia? What I put it in already so we're good. What three words would you describe the book?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

I would say it was um thrilling. It was um I like layered. I can't think of a different word than that, but I like that. Um, so I'm gonna steal one of Kyas. And I would also say it was it was messy. Yeah, yeah. But good mess.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Yeah, I would say I would say layered.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Good mess.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

I would say Laird. Complex, but not in the way that Laird is complex because of the conversations that were had like throughout it that kind of made you sit there and think. Um, and I guess I would say emotional too. Yeah, yeah. I would say those three, definitely. But also, real quick, let's backtrack real quick. Don't edit this out, we'll keep this in. What is everybody drinking? Because we didn't talk about everybody's drinking.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

We didn't. I'm drinking a pink Moscato. Real simple.

SPEAKER_06 3:14

And it's funny because I'm mimicking you because I have a pink Moscato as well.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Oh my god, it's Moscato Day. Well, I have I have my pink drink. I'm like dead, I'm gonna be talking my nose supercom until they they sponsor us. Oh no, for real. My nose supercom. Yeah, but I did also I enjoyed an ergo refreshment before this wink wink. Okay. So we're still in the same vibe a little bit. So we have that, but anyway, back to the yes, back to the story. Basically, the story is about Price Cummings, who is just finished his freshman year at college. He's a journalism student, media student, and he has this idea for a podcast after a man in his neighborhood dies, and the man's nephew was accused of murdering four football players at his high school and then ending up killing himself. But his uncle basically like declared he was innocent until the day that he died, and Price is from this hometown of Moss Point, Louisiana. So he was like, I'm I'm gonna do a podcast on this story, and his professor's like all about it, good to go. You go over there and do what you want to do. But then as he's digging into the murder, a lot of things start popping up. Basically, to summon up, police don't do their job. Please didn't do their job. No, horrible. So horrible, terrible. Um worst police officers. Oh my god. And you know what's and I think the sad part is how many departments are like that?

SPEAKER_06 4:50

Especially in little small towns, too many towns and stuff where everybody knows everybody. Try to cover up some stuff a lot.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

It sounded it like it was weird when I was reading it. It almost felt familiar just the way that they operated because there's so many small towns like Rikia. You grew up in North Carolina too, you know? How them small towns be around here? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:14

Everybody has their golden kids or golden families. It can't be really mess with, you can't say nothing to them.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Mm-hmm. I think that was like not that I wouldn't say the police department was the biggest thing that surprised me, but I think again, that what did they say? Like everybody loves a god in football. And from up north, that's not to say that people don't care about high school sports, like up north, but it's definitely a culture thing here, I would say, in the south, more than it is definitely back home. So for me, like on the outside looking in, I never understood it. I really never did. I'm sitting here watching football games, okay. What the hold on is this? So to see that these people like are like writing for these kids over a sport, and that's that's not the takeaway from people. That is freaking insane to me.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

I think it's the lack of things to do. Because, like you said up north, you guys have plenty of stuff to go and do. When you're in a small town or a small county, the only thing you have to do outside of school is play sports, and then everybody who the parents, grandparents, they don't have anything else to do on Friday night either but to go see little junior play football or little Samantha or whatever playing cheering or whatever. They ain't nothing to do.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah. But that's that's literally it. And not only that, for a lot of people in these towns, and they touched on it a little bit in the book, that is their quote-unquote way out. Especially if the town is, you know, poor or their family in particular. Sports is their way to college.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

It's that's part of the isn't one of one of the characters say that, like, oh, the one that got injured. Yeah, the brother. He was like, that was his yeah, yeah, that was his way out. We're jumping all over the place here because that's that's how I should not have done this before filming episode. I was like, this is gonna be the best idea ever. And that's like we're all over the place. So, but the characters are gonna be a price, and the big part of this is that Deuce Um Beals, who was accused of killing his football players, was gay, and the town painted it as like the football team found out that he was having a relationship with another boy in the school, they were going to out him, and he didn't like that, so he basically took them all out and then killed himself. And the town, again, being small, being very, very conservative and religious, they obviously did not like the whole gay thing, so they just use that as like, oh, see, this is what happens when you're repressed or when you can't get what you want, basically, with that. And Price himself is in closeted um child of the town, and he kind of wants to prove Deuce's innocence to basically show the town, like, see, like all gay people aren't aren't like this because they were more focused on the fact that, like, honestly, that this boy was gay over the fact that he killed people. Like, that was the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

That was more mad about that.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Crazy, like, like almost like here that see that proves my point that you you shouldn't be doing X, Y, and Z. And that was another thing that kind of boggled my mind. I'm like, okay, like he killed people, but like y'all talking about him being gay.

SPEAKER_06 8:43

Right, that's what they did. That that's what they did. No, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

But so yes, and then we have Izzy, who I if you've read the book, listen, I have I have mixed feelings about Izzy. Me too. I'm sorry, Izzy, they can't make me hate you. They really cannot. They can't. Like he was so fun. Like he was so funny. We would have been friends. I feel like he and I would have been friends.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Yeah. He was, and and he helped he helped for he helped Price come out of his show. And he helped Price kind of um get to know the gay culture, yeah. Yeah, in a way that he had never allowed himself to do. And so, you know, y'all know we do spoilers here, but just for any new listeners, spoilers coming up, yeah. Okay, um it I'm not gonna say I understand. However, for somebody growing up in such a hostile environment, it's almost like an act of self-defense at some certain points, you know. But like, damn, Izzy. Oh, he hurt my feelings with that one.

SPEAKER_06 10:08

Yeah, I I didn't expect him, honestly. I didn't. Me neither. Really? No, he was not my lips.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

I had a little inkling at first, but then immediately took him off the list because I'm like, oh, he came to help. Right. Now, if he had not come, you know what I'm saying? Because it was the initial meeting that made me be like, Oh yeah, oh he would he probably killed that boy because he was being mean to him, he was beating on him, whatever. But after that, after he came to town, I'm like, oh, Izzy, he's just he's trying to help. What's that line?

SPEAKER_04 10:42

No, what's that line that Junior said that dude that the brother um what's his name? Price's brother said on how he hated watching Lona or SVU because he would figure out who the who the person was before like the cops did on the show. I feel like that's how I am when it comes to stuff. Because listen, but I tell you that the ADHD pattern recognition was pattern recognitioning, both both of the bad people in the book. I clocked it from the beginning, from the beginning, and I was just like, I they got me in the end, that's the end end. I was like, wait, like something, something's not right. I know, I know this reverend is guilty of something. I just feel it, I feel it in my bones. Yes, the pinky ring, yes, the pinky ring, the fact that he's meant to be. That was such a good foreshadowing. I was like, Why are Metronies like boys for like that's weird? Stop working, please. Yeah, but then when they when they listen, when they when I saw when he said I saw the angel Gabriel on the wall, I was like, shut up. Yeah, so as he said Gabriel the I think like right, yeah like I knew the priest did something, but I would I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Oh my god. I'm I I definitely thought he he had something to do with it from the beginning.

SPEAKER_06 11:50

Yeah, just the way he was moving at church, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

And I was like, my my initial guess was that he was all he was involved with the whole thing with the Bertrand and the boys. Yes, that's what I thought. I thought, oh, we're gonna find out this man been messing with little boys too. But no, he a whole drug drug money in a bike, a bunch of wall. Like, oh my God. Yeah, and you know, like that happens. That really happens. I have heard several stories of pastors being drug dealers, and I don't know what that pipeline is about, but I guess they bought their money, huh? I feel like that's really what I think it is.

SPEAKER_06 12:36

They don't, they don't all the don't, I can't even talk, they're not all the way reformed because a lot of times men of God they come from like struggles or they maybe went to jail and did something. It's kind of like he still got that little pinky finger still in the game, and that's what he was doing.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Yeah. The love of money, it'll do it, and I think that's the other thing. That's the other thing, because you know, pastors make money even in a small church.

SPEAKER_06 13:03

Then people gonna get them ties and offering tonny.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Oh yeah, oh yeah. So you got somebody that comes from the streets, like you said, got a history of drug dealing, now he's a pastor. I'm gonna tell you what it made me think of. This is very off topic, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Mace.

SPEAKER_06 13:20

Cause what?

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Yes, yes, I forgot he's a pastor now.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Oh my god. Well, he's not no more. He done, he's not no more, but um Cameron now.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

What am I yeah, but I don't pay attention to that.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Low key that podcast is hilarious. Yeah, I'm not the big podcast.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

I've been listening to it. I've been listening to this hilarious with camera in the early 2000s when he has like, was it a next hell? It was like a baby pink, like next hell foot phone. Yeah, like anyway.

SPEAKER_06 13:55

Iconic, iconic, yeah, and he's still very handsome.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

He is still very handy.

SPEAKER_06 14:00

I like him and paint in full. Niggas get shot every day, B. Like, even though, even though he was a snitch, he was still fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah. Oh yeah. He's a cutie.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Yes, he is. Oh my god, what are we talking about? Mace? Oh, oh, yeah, him and Mace. Mace, yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

So I'm gonna tell you, it reminded me of that because you know, Maze, Mace, he he went in and immediately had uh mega church, like immediately from scratch. Okay, people was lining up to go to church, and me as a teenager, I'm like, y'all are dumb. Okay, because what make y'all think the rapper Mace all of a sudden, like, this is your spiritual leader? Okay, he did all that, then he he just he went back and forth because y'all, I don't know if y'all remember, there was a few years where he would stop being a pastor for a second, cuss 50 cent out, go back to being a pastor. You can't quit being a pastor for a second, now he kills a mace. That's not how it works, go back to be a pastor. Yeah, that's what it reminded me of.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

I'm like, wow, that's why you have to watch and have discernment and pay attention over who you are allowing to screw over your life. Everybody out who's claiming to be a pastor, a word of God, a man of God, a woman of God, it's not dead. It's not dead.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Yep. Discernment is key, and a lot of people got all the uh charisma in the world.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

So many people, and it's just like, do you not? And that's like the hardest part too. When you watch like these mega church pastors when they're speaking, it's almost like you can feel that it's like it's bullshit. Mm-hmm. They just probably is yes, and it's even like when he went uh price they go to church, he was he was saying something he just couldn't buy what he was saying. But just because like you said, you have charisma, you can shout a little bit, you can attract attention, doesn't mean that you're really saying anything, and you're over here like bamboozling people. Oh, let's go work, yeah. Bamboozle. Yes, it becomes and that was like that. I was like least to one of the questions too. It's like, did you we are we know that when you we we felt sympathetic towards Izzy, but the biggest question was like, who did you feel unexpected? Who did you unexpectedly sympathize with? So would you say like your sympathy for I think for Izzy in hindsight was unexpected? Or you you kind of felt like you were just gonna sympathize with him anyway, like from the beginning, before you knew everything.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yeah. I feel I think I was gonna sympathize with him.

SPEAKER_06 16:32

Yeah, kind of going back to what you said before, because I hadn't noted that he didn't have a safe haven. Your dad was abusive, your mom was just all involved in church, and anything that you did was considered a sin. The church shunned you, you were getting bullied at school. The first boy that you fell in love with wanted to keep you a secret, and then when people found out, he beat you up and blamed you for it. Like, where are you finding any ounce of joy? Who's who are you with or who are you around? What are you doing that's allowing you to fill your cup up? Like, his cup was always empty, like there was a horrible hand, horrible hand. Yeah. Yeah. Little baby.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah. Yeah. I like I remember when I was reading, I had these moments where I'm just like, oh wow, I'm so proud of Izzy. He left town, he got his money up, he's living his best life, he found himself. Like, that's how I was feeling the entire time. Yeah. And so when the big reveal happened, I was real life hurting. I was like, damn. Now, granted, I just finished this book five minutes ago. So the wound is fresh.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

But but there are certain parts too. Like, honestly, like, even like when you get when you get to the middle of the book where they have the girl, we're jumping all over the place, y'all. I'm so sorry when they have the girls' names that were carved into the the thing and it's an Isabella. And then Private's over here. We can't find Isabella. We can't find Isabella. Bitch, bitch, Izzy is right there. Izzy, Isabella. I need you to make the connection. I didn't make it. Please. I didn't make it. I was like, Isabella.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

It went all the way up.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Especially when they kept saying if we can find her, we can't find her. And I'm just like, mmm. You sneaky bitch.

SPEAKER_06 18:21

One plus one did not equal two. I did not get it. I was like, well, maybe she's at another school or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

I'm sitting here thinking it's meant to be one of the girls they installed. Yes. And that's I had no idea.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

That's the biggest. So, like, who did ooh, this is well, I mean, one of the questions we have was like, who did you not feel bad for? But like, I feel like it's I feel like can I collectively say it was the football players? Or no? Am I just, am I just a revengeful person?

SPEAKER_03 18:53

I will say this is one of those points in the book that I think had a great point of like conversation making because it is very true that offenders offend a lot of times. Unfortunately. But when you're young and you're taken advantage of and you're shown a toxic way to do things, that might just be a flip switch, unfortunately. And for these young men, they took it and ran with it. So at the end of the day, it's like you have you, yes, there's trauma that happens to you. People get um assaulted, people get sexually abused, but you still have to make the decision. Okay, am I gonna be like that? Or am I going to find a way to heal and get past it? Yes. And they decided they was gonna be like that, and they did it egregiously and with support.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

It's like everybody just turned a blind eye. So yeah, I definitely agree. Mine is like a 50-50 with them. The pastor, he deserved it. I'm sorry, you ain't had no business doing all the stuff he was doing. And then the pedophile man, because not only it's but that's like a common thing. Y'all know Law Order SP. Y'all know this is my favorite show. They always have some type of like trophy, and to me, that is sickening that you are literally taking something that does not belong to you, and then you're keeping a trophy, and it's sick. It's people and it's women and men out here who are willing to give it to you for free, make you pay for. Why do you gotta mess with keys?

SPEAKER_04 20:42

Listen, yeah, it was one of the things that stuck out to me too with it was again the boys having dealing with being assaulted by this man that they trusted, and then again, doing it to other people. And I wonder, given how let's just call it spade a spade. The town was homophobic. The town was very, very homophobic. We already know that there's a stereotype when it comes to men being sexually assaulted, especially when it comes to other men. A lot of the time when they I think there was there's one, there's two acts, actually, actually it was Terry Cruz and Brendan Fraser that came out with it, and the response that they had was like from men in particular was so fucking disgusting. Yeah, like it was not taken seriously. I think Brendan Frazier was like blacklisted for years because of it. Yep. So for me with the town, I wonder like how well actually no, I wonder, I feel like homophobia played a really big role in how the boys probably initially handled, it doesn't excuse what they did afterwards, but how they initially handled it because they I think Izzy even said it, Izzy probably said it in the book where it's like that that's probably why they were homophobic in themselves. Because of that. And I wonder if the town was maybe more. Open if they had their priorities straight of what was important, what was not important, if the boys would have felt more comfortable saying something. Because even when Price called this guy out, uh Bedford out, everyone was so so worried about his reputation. And it's like this man was yes, it was he was touching kids, and his mom called out too. Like, sir, you're more concerned about how this is gonna make you like he's a pedophile.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

I I wanted to strangle like ever almost everybody in that town, yeah, because and the sad thing is that's real life, that is real life. Homophobia will completely cause communities to turn a blind eye to anything that's happening. I have witnessed it, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_06 22:47

So sad.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

They'll keep it silent to keep the idea of homosexuality out of the picture.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

And I think they would say on page 25, um, the murders have become the town's cautionary tale against homosexuality. A way to characterize gays as these repressed, sexually deviant murderers who preyed on straight boys. Had Deuce not been gay, he wouldn't have been ashamed. And if he hadn't been ashamed, he wouldn't have killed Moss Point's golden boys. The social commentary in town following the murders was was what had kept Price in the closet even longer. And that made me so sad. Like and that I guess it leads to well, who is and before we get to the next one, because this is this is where we get in devil's advocate territory to make a fun. Who would you never trust in real life out of everybody? Let's not talk about Bedford, let's not do Bedford, the Reverend, because that's already damn that was my answer.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Oh so those are like the obvious ones. No, I'm gonna I'm gonna think of somebody else.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

Yeah, very obvious, Junior. Uh yes, I was gonna say junior, junior. Because he sold his own brother out, Junior.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

That was egregious.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

That hurt me. That that made me cry, actually. Like it made me tear up. So I was like, what?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Like to your own brother. I could never, like, I couldn't even, even the scaring part. Wow. To then take it to the next level. Oh no. To want to Yeah, no, he wasn't. Price wasn't wrong to not want to talk to me anymore. I would never talk to him again. I almost cut my brother off for losing my dog. You you kidnapped me?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

That's irritating me too with the pastor like trying to get them to talk again. And even like even Price, like, look, let me deal with this in my own time. Like, first of all, that also irritated me like that the mom even brought that up because that's nobody's this is no, no, no, no. Please, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

But like he can I interject one thing also listen. This is for the the church the girlies that grew up in church. This is one thing I really hate about some churches and some people where they will take all of their business to the pastor without permission. That was nobody's business. Nope. There was that was a family matter, first of all. But even then, you gonna make him go to the pastor to talk about being kidnapped and forgiving the kidnapper? Oh, hell no. But it's because now I'm pissed at you, mama.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

Yes, that I thought that's the only time I was mad at her because I was with Troy the whole time. That little I gotcha. I said, Well, I like that. I know, right? I like that.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Okay, I'm gonna take that out. Me too. I I got you. My mama used to say that.

SPEAKER_06 25:41

Shoot, because who you talking to?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Right.

SPEAKER_06 25:45

But no, I didn't I didn't like that. And I feel like that's common too when it's just like family. It's like when it's families involved, you're immediately supposed to want to forgive or want to talk it out. Like, no, at the end of the day, yeah, you hurt me, family or not. I don't want to talk to you and I shouldn't be made to. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Yes, yes. And I think that, like you said, that's the biggest thing because it's like again, because we are related, I have to do this. That doesn't make any sense. Because, like, like you guys said, if it was anybody else, you'd be done.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah, he should be happy he doesn't have a restraining order against the channel. Oh, yes. I would have listened.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Like, what do you mean? I'm sorry, I would have, I would have, like Izzy said, I don't do the whole Michelle Obama thing. I really genuinely don't. You go low, I go to hell. I would have, I would have pressed charges. I would have pressed charges against them. Yes. And press all of them.

SPEAKER_06 26:34

Some all of them. And all they got was community service. Y'all kidnapped two people, beat them to the fact that they had to be bandaged, and all y'all got was community service, also y'all could throw a ball. That's crazy. Now, granted, like you said, we know throwing a ball for some people is the end all be y'all, and it does change people's lives, but you are my brother. Your room is right beside mine, and you thought that this was okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:01

And not to mention, isn't maybe I'm maybe I'm just being dramatic. Isn't like a violation of privacy? It's not like a crime or no. I just make it so I in my in my brain, I feel like it should be. I feel like it's going through somebody's phone and doing something, right?

SPEAKER_06 27:15

Because it technically he stole it. Sounds right. Impersonation, kidnapping.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Okay. All that okay, exactly. So now now this leads to my favorite part because this brings me back to like I'm Medusa. Was it deserved? Now hot takes. Some of them had a coming. And the biggest question is being hurt doesn't justify everything, or does it okay?

SPEAKER_06 27:57

So are we breaking it down by like person is far as they deserved it?

SPEAKER_04 28:02

Let's do I would say yeah, because okay, let's start with look, let's start with easy. Let's do like revenge versus accountability, right? One would argue, one being myself, that Izzy sought revenge sought revenge and held the boys accountable, and the outcome was them dying.

SPEAKER_06 28:38

I agree. I feel like this was a case of fuck around and find out. Find out y'all was fucking around with a whole lot of people, hurting them in ways that are unimaginable, and this is what happens. I feel like you can't can constantly wrong people and then expect your life to be rainbows and sunshine. Karma's coming, yeah, whether it's with you or your kids, or it's it's coming, and that was their karma for hurting people. A girl killed herself. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

I agree. And and there were opportunities for them to be held accountable that were purposefully deflected so that they wouldn't be. And after you've not only abused and bullied me, now you've sexually assaulted me. At what point, and this is something I struggle with in real life as well. I struggle with women who are in prison for killing their abusers. I struggle with uh people being in jail who killed, you know, people who sexually assaulted them. I struggle with that in real life because my thing is the law is not always really good to the victim. More times than not, justice is not gonna be served, unfortunately. As a matter of fact, I'm listening to this other podcast, podcast plug called Betrayed.

SPEAKER_06 30:15

Ooh, okay, and Betrayed.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

I think you told me about that. Oh, it's so good, y'all. Yeah, it's really good. But one thing I'm seeing in all of these cases, people do absolutely horrendous shit. Proof is there that they did this horrendous shit, and the law will give them six months and probation.

SPEAKER_06 30:36

What is that?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

So you telling me that's enough, and then not only am I supposed to take it when I finally get tired of it and defend myself, now I'm going to prison. Oh, craziness.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Yes, and I think I guess we I guess we all like vigilante justice in one way. What's that my little mute musical self? Chicago? Selfango?

SPEAKER_06 31:04

Yes, he only had himself to blame this.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

That's it. That's listen, I uh love that freaking song. They did it for the Liliths. You popped that gun one more time. Like I told you not to do it. I told you not to do it. It's 1920s. I'm home all day, I'm all freaking Quayludes.

unknown 31:19

Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Like, let me do it.

SPEAKER_06 31:22

I'm gonna watch that this weekend actually.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

It's um that was like, oh my god, I love that movie so much. Ugh, oh my god. Actually, trauma dump real quick. Do you know one of my friends that I had when that came out? Because I was singing when I was younger, When You Good To Mama, the one that Mama Morton Queen Latifa plays. Do you know this little bitch? Say, excuse me, she's like, Oh, you know, you know, on Broadway, she's not she's not um black or big, right? So you wouldn't be able to play her. Yes, bitch. Yes, she said that to me.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Oh, that might would have been fighting hands.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

I was like, like, but I forgot how old I was when it came out. Now she's married to a black woman.

SPEAKER_06 32:09

This sip is on point because, and if you listen to this girl, you knew better. You are a friend of apology.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Anyway, literally, anyway, to you that is crazy, yeah. Yeah, I still remember that every time I can't every time I send the song, I think about that, and then I get angry.

unknown 32:31

Angry about it.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

So it's okay. So we've we okay, we've already established that we like vigilante justice, we sympathize with Izzy because y'all, Izzy ends up being the murderer. So the one who's like who's helping Price figure this out, he had a relationship with Deuce, he was the one who ended up killing the football players because they were out here armouring and sexually assaulting all these women and drugging them, and then they ended up gang him in the woods with a beer bottle, and he was just like, No, I'm not gonna do it anymore. So I feel like we've established that. But do you think for me when it comes like, do you think anybody took it too far? I feel like again, I this is my steno ed energy from I Medusa. The only people who took it too far were the football players, so they deserved it, and and the priest and Bedford, yeah, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

But no, not I'm gonna be honest with y'all. When I was reading the book, I was kind of hoping that Price was gonna let it go.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

I know, oh my god, me too.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Just a little bit, I know, uh, just a little bit. I was like, well, dang, you know, he he ain't killing nobody now.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

No, but he did say that. He said he said I'm not a serious killer. Like, I did I I did what I needed to do. I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

He only killed the ones that got him. So what's done is done.

SPEAKER_06 34:08

Sorry, like, but I feel like if he wouldn't have found out that Izzy did it, then it wouldn't, he they wouldn't have been able to find out that Deuce was innocent, and that was the whole reasoning behind the story, and that I think we touched on that a little bit too about people who um deserved it. I feel like he's the opposite because I feel like he was really trying to turn his life around, and then he didn't get the second chance, and I feel like that's ironic because your name is Deuce, the Lord trying to give you a second chance, you're trying to take it, and then the pastor won't let you lose. Crazy.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Crazy that and you know that pastor going here. Yeah, this child really trying to get out, and that is terrible. Yeah, I agree with you, Rakia. He I if anybody didn't deserve it, I think it's Deuce. He was troubled, he had a pass. Yes, he he he did beat up Izzy one time, but I think that was fear. Yeah, um, that doesn't excuse it necessarily, but I just think he could have grown to be a good beer.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Yeah, that's true. And I also that's probably the one thing I didn't like about Izzy is that he framed Deuce because he was upset.

SPEAKER_06 35:21

But did he though?

SPEAKER_04 35:23

He didn't be the one that made the call. He made the call that he was. Oh, the voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the voice because the voice. Um, but I think that's that's like probably the one thing I was like upset with him about. Because like, I'm sorry, yes, I get it, he like beat you up, but you want to send that man to jail for murder?

SPEAKER_06 35:40

Because lover scorn, a lover scorn, maybe no, like that's the crazy thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

He was real scorn, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

But he's I feel like Izzy is probably a Sagittarius. Because he's kind of like a Sagittarius, maybe a Scorpio, maybe, but like for him to do that was that was I say I feel like that's the only way he went that and then you know how sad that is? He didn't go too far with the murder, but he did go too far with framing somebody.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Context matters, context matters, basically.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

That's all I'm saying again. Nobody and we don't hear what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_06 36:30

Orlando blue another one you can't be here with Orlando Brown.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

Oh, he's a mess. But you know what popped up? Do y'all remember Scared Straight? Yes. You remember the gay prisoner who was like reading to filth the young one and he's like, Your hair's not that cute. That's probably gonna be easy. And you get it. Not that cute. Oh my god, that's gonna be that's gonna be easy. He might make the most of it.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Oh my god. Like, oh my god. I mean, is he gonna be let me tell you something? Is he gonna be just fine? He's gonna be in her pain. Yes, yeah, listen, he's gonna be just fine.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

I know she cried. I know she cried when she went home. Oh, I love it so much.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

He said, I hope your husband cheat on you with every nut, every nurse that he works with.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

And then her her DMing price right after everything happened. Girl, go away. Please, go away.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

I'm so glad that he blocked me.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

No, because he was like, oh yeah, no Z. Listen. And that that I feel like she didn't get what she deserved. I think she should have been not equally as punished, but don't let me. I'm not just being this is why I say Izzy was a Sagittarius, because I'm like, how could I have ruined your life?

SPEAKER_02 38:00

You added it to the list.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Who else? No, I think everybody else is safe. So they're fine. Um and then okay, this is hmm. This is gonna get deep. We're gonna get very deep right now. Not really deep. I said all the time, and then the question is so freaking basic. Church, church, church was a big thing, a big topic of the conversation. Oh, I lost the question. I lost y'all. This is a PSA. No, this is a PSA. If you ever want to do a podcast, just don't get high beforehand. Don't do it. No, get drunk like the other two do. Like it'll come back to you. It was basically along the lines of just like, I guess, just church, just church in general. Church in there, I guess, because the biggest question was like cancel culture. And I feel like I don't want to say all churches, I would say modern American evangelical Christianity has a big thing when it comes to cancel culture. Is when you think about it, because there's this question makes no freaking sense.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Um just get into my brain.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

Let it flow, girl. I know I'm in a flow state. I'm trying to be connected in a flow state right now. But I feel like what I found really interesting is I feel like when it comes to the church and people who disagree with it or have questions about it, and you see it in the story too, specifically with Izzy's mom, the defensiveness that she had. The defensiveness that she had, and it brought me back, which I don't know if you follow Kev on stage, the comedian. He just did um a podcast with what's the Cam. What's the guy with the hat, with the damn hat? Cam Newton. Yeah, Cam Newton. And how he for his Christianity, he says he leads, he chooses to lead with love when it specifically comes to the LGBTQ community. And he was like, if I if I get to heaven and God really says, like, hey, you being nice to the gay people, I didn't like that, he could have been like, Well, I was just leading with love or whatever. The amount of like evangelical Christians who were like mad at him for saying that he wants to love people, love people, that's crazy to me. And as someone who's like, I feel like we've all read the Bible in and out, and especially me going to Catholic school, like we had we had classes to sit there and study it. I don't know what Jesus these people are talking about. I really genuinely don't. Because where is this coming from? And then the part Well, here's the thing: a lot of these people that are mad did not read the Bible. That's true, but even like Izzy's mom, when she when she meeted when she meets up with him, and then she's like, Oh, um, honor your father and mother, like blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. No, I feel like we've talked about this before in like in a past episode, but for some reason, people who quote that never go to the next line, the next line down where it's like basically don't provoke your children to anger. Yep, bring your children. You forget that part. So you better preach, friend. Sorry, like you're like you're out here, like you're you want to follow this lifestyle, but you're not doing the same thing. You're like it's it just absolutely boggles my mind. This is turning into a rant. Somebody interrupt me, please.

SPEAKER_06 41:43

I don't, I don't I don't think it's a rant, like you said. I feel like it's true honesty. And I feel like Christianity, Christianity is one of those religions that have been along been around for a very long time. And I feel like people, with any type of advice that you get, you pull what you need and then you disregard what you don't. And what you can be disregarding could be what somebody else is needing. And I feel like when it comes to sin, all sin is equal. So you're perfectly fine with the pastor cheating on the first lady, you're perfectly fine with the deaconess beating up his wife, you're perfectly fine with knowing that Sister So-and-so's uh son be slang and dope, but he helped pay for a pastor anniversary. But the gaze is where you draw the line.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Y'all y'all preaching in that preaching.

SPEAKER_06 42:43

I don't I don't get it. And I feel like too, we put these men and women of God on a pedestal, and then people sometimes forget that they are human too. They sin and do things that they shouldn't do, just like everybody else. But you ask God for forgiveness. Now, granted, what he decides when you make it up to the parely gates, that's up between you and him. But stop trying to make everything you're shining a light on what you want to shine it on, it's not okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

It's cherry-picking, it's cherry-picking and it's hypocrisy. Because, like you said, they will ignore all of those things going on in a church every day. But let the let the choir directors hold his hand a little funny, and now everybody gotta try to vote him out.

SPEAKER_06 43:32

Yeah, honey, you see what he was doing, girl. He had a little switch. Maybe he was trying to get a wedgie out. He can't do that. You don't you don't know what that man was doing.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

And it was, and what and I feel what a lot of people forget is gotta give everybody free will. Free will is I don't want to say it's doing what I what I want to do. But to make the decisions that I think are gonna be right for myself. And that's that. I think everybody just needs to mind their own damn business. Just mind your business. Like, if and honestly, and honestly, what it is too, it also reminds you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna equate the two because there have been studies that show like if people are like racist or homophobic, their brain activity literally is not working. I think Harvard did a study where it's like their pre-frontal cortex is not making connections. You are literally dumber if you do these things. And it's like you you hate these people so much that you think about them all the time. And that also doesn't make sense to you because if I don't like somebody, why free?

SPEAKER_02 44:49

You worrying about what that man did.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

It's like if I don't if I don't like somebody, if I don't like somebody, why am I gonna think about them? You don't exist to me. So it's just like literally, like, okay, so I don't know. The girl likes to look a little bit of pussy. Who cares? Okay. Sorry. Let me just be honest.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 45:16

So leave her, leave her alone because again, that's between them two. And on top of that, too, not everybody is a freaking Christian. So why are you subscribing your lifestyle on everybody else?

SPEAKER_03 45:32

We all have our own struggles we need to be focused on. Yes. And the Bible talks about worrying about the beam in your eye before you're worrying about the splinter in your neighbors. But the a lot of the problem is just like, yes, deflection. You you got your own struggles you need to be worrying about, and you worrying about everybody else's. You would be much happier if you just focused on doing what God said to do. Love your neighbor, be charitable, worry about the widow, feed the homeless. Y'all ain't doing none of that. Y'all go in church on Sunday with your pancreas, showing off.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

No, it's foolishness.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

It is, and that's what what's a junior? I keep I keep getting junior and um junior price and deuce. I keep getting them all mixed up. But all the names are different. Listen, what hold on Price did say too when he was at church. When he was at church, he said now it all felt theatrical, like the man before them was putting on a show instead of providing spiritual nourishment. Spiritual nourishment. We need to be fed.

SPEAKER_06 46:44

We need to be fed the spiritual, yeah, fed good food.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

They're being fed something, but yeah, no, but yeah, is it I guess this would be I'm trying to think, like, yeah, could this happen? Could something like this happen in real life? And I feel like, yes, I feel like we've seen it in different iterations. Who's that female murderer? Eileen Warnos. We've seen stuff like that happen. Was she when she murdered the men who like had abused her?

SPEAKER_06 47:22

Yep, yeah. We see movies about it all the time, we see TV shows, and then, like you said, real life, like it's always whispers about prominent families. If you have money and resources, you can literally get away with murder and then go on and live your happy little life, and then what happens after the fact, but you got away with it.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Let me tell y'all a story. I might have told y'all this story before. My senior year of high school, I did a senior prank. We got arrested.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

What? Now, all I did, all I did a record, y'all. Had some no no no clear, okay? I completed that community service. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

What did it wanna say no jail time? Right. No jail time.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

All I did, little baby, baby oil on the floor. That's not bad. You know, nothing serious. Y'all, they put me for breaking and entering, damage to personal property. Yeah. They threw they threw me in the jail house, okay? Oh my god. Now, mind you, right up the street at a little bit more affluent school, some white kids drove a car into the school for their senior prank. Into injured several students into the school. Injured several students. Ask me what happened.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

Community service or nothing.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

Nothing.

SPEAKER_06 48:57

And they injured students?

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Injured.

SPEAKER_06 49:00

They probably paid them off. Just like that. That boy paid off.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

They look a little different than me and my friends, I'll tell you that. They look a little different. That kind of stuff happens every day.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

Crazy. That's right. And that really does fit every day.

SPEAKER_06 49:18

That makes me so mad. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Yeah. Between stuff like that happening, there are serial killers out now. I don't know if y'all heard about the one in Louisiana.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

Yes, I saw that a while ago.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

There's currently serial killers on the loose, uncaught. Walking around, walking around a food line.

SPEAKER_06 49:38

Well, Trader Joe's getting a little snacky snack. We would never know. That's crazy. Yes. No.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Do you guys think about that? Think about how many like criminals you just walk past every day.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Like, it's scary thought. It's a scary thought. People are crazy.

SPEAKER_06 49:57

No, that yeah. It's an evil world we live in, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 50:01

It is.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

And they even have me and unfortunately. Oh no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

I was gonna say that with the real life thing, even like who are the people that were doing like the sexual assault and the and being the predators, and they say throughout two, where it's like, you know, everybody's always worried about gay people touching kids or doing X, Y, and Z. You never hear, but you hear about how many political people on the right wing side who have gotten in trouble within the past year itself. So the call is coming from inside the house, baby.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Yeah, the projection. It's projection.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

And it's anybody walking around thinking everybody doing something, that's because they doing it.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

Yes. Literally, literally, honestly, literally when Izzy said at the end of the book, he when when Price was like, Why did you do it? Because our tone they can't mess with us with the gays. I was like, period. Period. Like do what she freaking do.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Anyway. Someone's gonna make some if we ever get like big, someone's gonna make like a clip of this to be like they are murder apologists.

SPEAKER_06 51:10

The wrong thing is like cancel them. But it's like you said, some of this stuff is not either uh it's not black and white, some of it lands in the gray area with stuff like this, like you said, when you're dealing with women who are abused and kids who are abused, that is some very jarring stuff, and that's not a thing you can wipe away. If you are accused of domestic violence or graping somebody, you you can't come back from that. You can't come back from that. Yeah, you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_04 51:43

Like, no, no, but we see it, we see, especially like in the media, and this is what worries me about like boys growing up now. I don't know if you guys watched the documentary Inside the Manosphere with Louis Thoreau. He's a British journalist.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

I couldn't do it, girl. It's it was a hard one. Just the clips were infuriated.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

I tried to, like, I watched it with my dad. My dad was like flabbergasted because he's he's older, obviously. He's not knowing what's on right now. He's like, is this six? I was like, Yes, Dad, this is serious. Like, this is what these boys are sitting here, like watching. And you we have stuff like that. We have people like Andrew Tate, who was literally arrested for sex trafficking, but now he's just out. We have major celebrities, like okay, rest his soul, Kobe Bryant. Didn't he like rape somebody? But he played football, so we just not basketball, so no, it's fine. Or what's his name? Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg beat a Vietnamese man up and did race had like racial sorcery and everything, but he's a good Catholic man, and he's this big actor now, but like nobody, so you we see it every single day of just men just being not held accountable for things. Let's be let's be really honest. I know I'm gonna piss some people off. Chris Brown, that man has never come back after what he because he was still fucking crazy. Karuche has a whole entire restraining order against him because he's breaking nuts and he keeps assaulting people, men and women, but he he can dance. He can dance and he can sing.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

Our culture is very um selective when it's gonna be about who we're mad at.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

Yes, and people look at you crazy when you're like no, I don't really I don't listen to him anymore. I don't I can't separate the art from the artist when it comes to this, and they look at you like you're nuts, then they get angry. It's like, well, are you gaslighting me? Gaslighting me right answer is yes. Like, please. So it's like I think it's scary because I think this is this is almost like a it's one of these books that's like a mirror, I think, to society as how it's always been. And some of the call-outs were some of the call outs like too like on the nose, yeah. But you know, I think for some people it needs to be on the nose because if you're not saying it how it is, some people just aren't gonna get it.

SPEAKER_06 54:15

Sometimes it needs to be plain, and then that no word. I think that was one of the biggest things for me. Not just our culture, I feel like worldwide, is we don't hold men of any type of accountable accountable when it comes to sexual assault. It's always her skirt was too short, or she was flirting with him, or she was drinking too much. If she said no, that means no. Mm-hmm. If he said no, no means no.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Because it's both ways. Yes, there's this video I have to send it to you. I saw on TikTok, and I I just love that he I think it was specifically for like little black boys, and he was, or he is like a I forgot what he does, a speaker. And he was doing a thing on body language for and these boys are like second, third grade, and they have the female teacher like demonstrating, and then he's like, Oh, can I have a hug? And she's like, No, not really, and you know, they keep asking, they keep asking for one, and and then she was like, Okay, yeah, fine, but her body language was still off. And then when he was done, he's like, Did she really want that hug? And all these little boys were like, No. So you have these little kids who know these things, it's almost like you're retraining them to like think the opposite as they get older, right? And he was like, even if your body language is off, what did she say? And they were like, No. And I never understood, yes. Oh, it was just so good.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

That's necessary, it is, and it's we gotta be more proactive with it because society is set up to make it so that these little boys feel entitled to a woman's body. Yes, going back to the whole manosphere thing. I mean, all of society is like that. I don't know if y'all remember hearing when you little, oh, he just hit you because he likes you. Right, he's mean to you because he likes you. He's being mean to you because he thinks you're pretty. That is such a toxic message.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

Let somebody say that to my boy.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

Boys are getting the opposite of that.

SPEAKER_04 56:12

No, and I hate that. And it's that's why I also get irritated too when people say, Girls, boys are so much easier to raise than girls. No, especially now again with the manosphere thing. I have to we have to consciously put in an effort to make sure that you don't go up to be a piece of crap. Like, that stresses me out.

SPEAKER_06 56:31

Literally, it's it's really insane. Ugh. And then the time you get for it, too. Like, you get way lesser time for like sexual assault, and then the statute of limitations. Like, why is there a limit on that? It's not a limit when you make that make sense. But it's a limit on that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

They will give somebody five months for raping somebody and then give them life for selling weed, or and that is just it's just it pisses me off. It's like stealing.

SPEAKER_06 57:08

I feel like it should be in the category of like grand larceny. You are taking something that does not belong to you, and it's leaving a long-lasting scar.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

Yes, yes, absolutely, yes. And I'm sure I think I think Brazil has laws like that. I was reading some of the laws that Brazil has would send Americans into a freaking coma. Do you know what? You know what's illegal over there? Racism. You're racist, you go into jail. Yes, violent, violence or even just like different types of like even if it's not like a verbal sexual assault, stuff like that, jail. Go in jail. You can't have that here though.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

Common sense. Like, that's common sense. These people want to be evil. I promise you, because it's not I'm gonna I'm gonna spoil one of the episodes of Betrayal for y'all. Just so you can like understand why it's just so like this the justice system just does not mean shit to me. This man got caught with a computer full of images of children. Computer full, okay. His brother was a cop. He tried to convince the wife not to go to the cops about it.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

The brother?

SPEAKER_03 58:26

The brother of the man, yeah. Because she called him thinking, oh, I'm gonna tell my brother-in-law. He'll he'll help me go to the police about it. I just caught his brother doing something terrible. He told her, calm down. It's not, it's probably not what you think.

SPEAKER_06 58:43

Not what I think.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

I know this man, this man served, get ready for it. Don't piss me off. Two months. Two months. But they'll put somebody in jail longer than that for selling drugs to feed their family. Now, I'm not saying selling drugs is right. What I'm saying is you're telling me this man can actively hurt children and have images of it, and that is just that's just nothing.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

And let a parent of one of those kids do something to that man, then they'll get more in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Oh, now they're going to prison. Yeah, they're going to prison. They're going to jail.

SPEAKER_04 59:30

Like that's it's crazy. But what's crazy, and I wonder if they part of me, this made me think too. I wonder if they give them less time because you know that like old adage where it's like, don't be a pedophile in prison, don't be a rapist in prison, don't mess the old people in prison because they'll get you in there. So what I wonder if that's why they get shorter sentences too, because it's such a thing in there that because especially like if because my my dad used to be a corrections officer, and like he was like, Don't he was like, Don't let them find out that you did stuff to kids because you're not getting out.

SPEAKER_06 59:57

It's very true. So I have a couple family members who were correction officers, and they say the same thing. Like a lot of times they don't they don't even go into gym pop gym pop general population because they know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

And you know what? I ain't I'm I ain't gonna lie, that's how it should be.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:18

You know, like it's just yeah, yeah, because they're just gonna keep doing it, they're gonna get out and keep you know how many how many of them get out and then just keep doing it again?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

I really think the real reason is because these judges be doing it too. Probably it's a whole thing. That's really what I think it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

That's a whole thing. It's a trip. It's a whole network.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:38

We see what's going on in the world, yeah. We see all these these men and getting implicated in all these rings and trap child trafficking and stuff like that. This world is evil. So if Izzy thought it was best, like okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Justice for Izzy Izzy thought it was best. Just as for Izzy, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

Those girls that like the women that like would, I don't know, would write letters to like freaking Ted Bundy or some shit. Izzy was like, no, you didn't do it. Izzy girl, how are you doing it? What you mean? Somebody on your conversation. Come on, I can help you. What's going on? So actually, no, Jumana, what you need to do is you need to write you need to write a book about Izzy while he's inside and his what he's doing in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

Help him solve a mystery.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:26

Yes, because he can and he had to keep up with that's impressive too. Like he couldn't crack the whole entire time. He had to keep up at facade, and he was having a good old time. He even said he's like, it was kind of fun. You know, seeing it's other people, like he's already kicking to himself.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Like, you're not gonna get it. You might have think about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:50

Literally, and like yes, but to your point, yes, then Deuce wouldn't have been, you know, exonerated a little late, but you know, it's it's true, it's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:04

Deuce deserved to have his name cleared. Yes, he did deserve to have his name cleared, but I think this just is a this is just a great depiction of how the justice system fails people, children and women every day. Perfect depiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

Yes, and did you we kind of talked about the plot twist in the beginning and we talked about like our reactions and if it was like if it was predictable or shocking or whatever. How did you like the pacing of it? Because that was like the biggest one thing that I think Jamana did really well is the pacing. Well, he did well with the whole entire thing, is the pacing of it, like it was perfect, yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:59

There was not a point in that book where I was bored, right? Where I was waiting for anything else to happen. It was a constant, yeah, yes, great pacing. Yes, I really enjoyed this book. This was this has been my favorite so far.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:12

Honestly, yes. The tension, honestly, this is this is kind of what I wanted from the scammer. And I think what I expected.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Now that you said it, yeah. Now that you say it, I because I wasn't gonna say it, but now that we say it, this is this feels like a true YA. Yes, almost. He was coming into himself the character development while all of this is happening. Yes, character development, yeah. Yes, this this was good. This is this is what this is the the level of uh depth, I guess, I want from a coming of age story, which this is not technically a coming of age, but kinda is it kind of is it's just coming out, yeah, you know, um, and learning to be himself with his parents, which I love that I'm I was in bed just like didn't want to wake Jeremy up, but I was listening, I was like, oh my god, the minute when she said when she said sit down, I went through a laptop, oh my god, I was, and I think what got me because I already I already knew the mom was gonna be cool, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Yeah, me too, me too. It was the dad's reaction that had me like like oh my god, like and what I loved about it, which and this was so oh, this is so fleshed out because one thing I've heard from my friends who have like come out with their parents is when the when the parent says stuff like oh like we already knew that, okay, that's fine, and that kind of just leaves it at that. It's almost like that's just supposed to make you feel okay. Yeah, but what I love what the dad did is that he was like, Okay, that's cool, and then he apologized. Yes, he apologized to him afterwards and be like, if I did anything to make you feel like you couldn't come to me to begin with, I'm sorry. He's I'm I'm old, I don't be, you know, it's like but like that that's what really made me cry was like that apology to it. Yes, oh such a good chapter.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

He acknowledged the fact that he was he was just a he was just an old country man, he don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:25

And then they were asking questions about like his love life. I have they had like they were seemed to be genuinely interested in like what he had going on, and then when he hugged him, I was like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

Junior Junior tried to come in there and be like, I'm I'm sorry too. Yeah, we feel mad at you, please. Like what's done with him from that moment. Oh my god, but like done with him. Cause I because I just picture this like big burly man being there for his son. And I feel like there's something about again, like a masculine man's man. Accepting gay son, that's just like uh that's just so different. Cause I feel like as not as a mom, but like I'm not a mom, but I feel like for a lot of moms, it's like she stuck up for him all the time. Yeah, that was expected, but like it's just Jumata.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:22

Yeah, I wasn't aware of your game. That was special. But now I am. Yes, you know Bob.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

No, seriously. I want to read his mom.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:29

I need to read all of it. All of it. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed that. Yes. Five out of five. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:37

Five out of five. Oh, yeah. That's what I was gonna say. I'm gonna do um maybe like try a new. Okay, so before we head off, I would say we can call the segment the final sip. Okay. That is very good. I would say for the rating, is this is this a sip? A shot or a spill? We all know it's not a spill because obviously we just said for me, I feel like it's a sip. I didn't want it to end. I need I need a detective series. I really do.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:12

Yeah, definitely a sip because I was actually mad at myself for the fact that I had to rush through it as I'm reading it. I'm like, oh man, I really should have started this earlier so that I could like take my time. Yeah, it was that good. I'm like, dang, I really like I don't I wish I I wish I would have done that because this, I mean, yeah, he did his thing with this. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

Very nuanced, very well written, well paced, all of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:51

I agree with you guys too. I face it as well. I feel like it was to some maybe an uncomfortable topic, but it was necessary, and then the way that he wrote it so that it was entertaining and suspenseful, and like little slight lessons and little nuggets. Well done.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:11

Well done. Yes. Even the character, even the characters that he added, like I feel like what we've seen in a lot of books now, like where authors add a whole bunch of characters, but it's like they don't know how to flesh them out to a point. So now it just seems like you're just you're just adding a bunch of people. Like every single from a major character to a minor character was like so perfectly executed and fleshed out just enough that I knew about them. I didn't want to know any more. Like what's her name? Reagan. I didn't want to know any more about her because I could I already knew about her from how she acted.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

Yeah, it was just we knew enough to be able to hear her her as a person, her voice, her attitude, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:57

I was gonna but like uh it was so good. So I would so who should who should read this book? Mmm, but follow us on all platforms plot on the rocks, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, TikTok, find the skips, yes, threads, which I find I downloaded it. I didn't realize I downloaded it. After I told you that I wasn't gonna download it, you sent me something, and then it popped up. I was like, wait a minute, I don't remember doing this at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

Good, welcome.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:31

It's it's like black tick, it's like black Twitter back in the really yes with a sprinkle of Pinterest because people be posting like some really nice photos and stuff. Can you follow people on can you follow people on threads?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:47

Let me see.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:48

And you can start fresh too. It's not like all of your Instagram followers. You can like build your own thread, which I really like.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:55

I'm gonna see. I'm gonna see if the actor that I'm currently obsessed with is on there.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Listen, no, this is one thing you have to know about threads. Okay, threads is for the people, honey. They don't give a damn about no celebrities. They ran Tamara off threads. I saw, okay, so what did you see that?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:14

Oh, no, you ran her off, but what what happened? What happened?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

Girl, all she said was hello. Hi. I'm new here, and they ripped her.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:22

I saw somebody say, I saw somebody say sister sister. Like that's what I saw, but I didn't know what she did.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

Yeah, all she did was introduce herself. Hi Threads. Oh, honey.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

Black folks is all up. No, we don't want you here.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:39

Go home. No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

Go home, Roger. Go home, Roger.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:43

No, I'm gonna be honest because this is also people thirsting after. Listen, I'm gonna talk. I'm gonna use this moment. We have we have time left. If y'all are still listening, I'm gonna I'm gonna evangelize right now. I'm gonna proselytize. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:58

Listen, Tia already knows what the hell it is, okay? I don't know what the f they put crack, they put crack in this man. Who is it? So I can look at my Sean. Okay, his name is Sean Hattie from the pit. Okay. Let me see. I don't like if you mention this man one more fucking time. He plays Dr. Abbott. He's on Quinn. I'm plugging the Quinn app. He has a story on the Quinn app right now. Oh my god, I almost crashed my car. I'm dead. But anyway, I just never thought I would be like pining over a 50-year-old white man right now. Like, honestly, like if Dr. Abbott was a real doctor, Dr. Abbott and Dr. Ellis, both of them, I would be in the ER constantly. Him? Yes. Oh my god. Yes, girl. He plays only something else that I've seen. He was an he was an animal kingdom. Listen, have I been watching everything he's in? Shut the fuck up. Leave me alone. John Q. That's a John Q.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:48

John Q.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

Yes, he was a John Q. He was a John Q. Yes. I haven't seen that movie in forever. Oh my gosh. He's aged so well. But you guys know I also love redheads too. So there's like that. But listen, Dr. Abbott. Come talk to me with your fucking with your one leg. With your one leg, I can take care of you. Oh, that's a spoiler too, Tia. You got one leg. He's an army vet. He's an art, he's an army vet in the shows. He's like fighting wars. Listen.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:21

You got it. Money, you think Dr.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:25

Robbie is hot. I think Dr. Robbie is handsome. I do think he is handsome. But girl, I don't know. Rikia, I told her that that white man looked like he teaches uh science class in Arkansas. It's not, it's not Arkansas. That is so freaking specific. Oh my but it's is it not true?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:52

Don't he look like a science, like a regular, regular guy?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:55

But I mean I know, but like he's a silver fox, okay? Just let me what's your favorite thing to say? I'm not gonna yuck your yum. Okay, don't yuck my yum. And he's a first of all, he's he's a lot of people's yum, so I'm not alone on this island, okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:13

Okay, so me and Tia waited in the water.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:18

You know the eye link. Yeah. No, here's the here's no, and I don't know what it is, but there's something about him because outside of you too, outside of you too, black women seem to love him too. So you know what? We're right. Not we're right.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:33

I I would I will tell you this. I think black women do love ginger.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:36

I didn't see it for yeah I feel like I don't know why black women I don't like like gingers.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:44

Yeah. I don't listen. Here's my thing. It takes a lot for me. I'm not gonna say a lot, it takes something very specific for me to think, oh, white man is cute to be in the first place, to be honest. But what I will say, I will be, I will be fair here and say that attitude has a lot to do with it and like the vibe you give off. So once I get to his part his in the season of The Pit, maybe it's his You know, I'll see something that I don't see currently.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:13

No, it's his attitude. It is his attitude, he's very like he takes charge of the situation, and then it's one of those things where it's like, oh, I could feel I can relax. Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:29

I can see it in your eyes. You're like really thinking about it too. Like, ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:36

She was looking all you looking at, girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:47

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:48

Oh my god. I'm pregnant now.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:51

Well, we want Yakuir and Yammy's bag.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:53

You got it, girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:57

I know I got it. Okay. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:59

One thing I do want to do before we end, y'all. I want to give a shout out to Mia Lawrence. Mia, I hope you listen to the end of this episode, child, because Mia has commented on several of our Spotify episodes as the first commenter. And we appreciate you. If you're listening, we appreciate you. Follow us on the socials and send us a message so we can be like friends.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:23

Yes, literally. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

Yes, every single, every single one that uh, and everybody who listens to us, honestly, like we appreciate y'all.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:36

But that's day one for real.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

But like, yeah, for real, for real.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:39

Yeah. So that leads us to the end of the episode. If you again, if you guys have listened to this far and me, you know, watch the pet. It's a good show. Like and subscribe for our next episode. We're gonna be getting ready for the Black Romance Book Fest in May. So the idea that we're gonna have is we're gonna pick two books from authors that none of us have read like at all, at random. So we haven't really done romance yet this season at all. So this will be exciting to read. So we'll have that up for you guys soon. But thank you guys for listening, and we'll see you in the next one.