Mo Giligan

In this weeks episode Shean and his Dad discuss the fall out from the Mo Giligan situation that made its way into the public domain. They talk about the pitfalls of success, managing relationships and expectations, and the heartache of making wrong decisions. They provide a balanced and insightful view to both sides of the argument and look to explore ways to not only create solutions through action, but more importantly resolution through communication. Shean shares and asks probing question to his Dad in order to gain insight about how the older generation view the idea of giving advice and the conditions upon which they do so. Prepare yourself for an open, honest, and vulnerable conversation, as the duo delve deep into the why of the what and share the experience of their findings.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Yo Pops, the podcast with me, Sean Williams, and my father. Blessings to you. You're doing so well with this. I'm very proud of you. Thank you. We're really happy to have everybody with us today. My God, do we have a topic for you today? Um, I didn't show my dad the video in front of you all because it was just traumatic for everybody. I knew sending it to him, he'd be like, Why are you sending me these types of things? But it's cool because we're gonna break that apart. We're gonna break that right apart. But before we do that, let's get into our first little interactions. Firstly, please like, subscribe. What's the third one? That's how I know you don't listen. Share. Please like, subscribe, and share to Yo Pops Podcast on Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube, and and and we are streaming audio ever. We're streaming audio everywhere. Okay. 40 downloads yesterday. Wow. Aye. That's a good so I'm joking. So we are on Spotify, we are on Amazon, we are on Apple Podcasts, we are on Listen, we are on Deezer, we are on, there's another one, Podcast Indexed, uh, and there's another one um Podcast Addicts. We are everywhere, guys. So please keep streaming the podcast, keep sending in your comments. I've keep getting scoped. Why are you looking at me like that? No, why are we looking at me like that? What were you thinking whilst you were dad? I know you wouldn't have you. We'll deal with that off camera. Um also to all of my father's fans that keep sending me messages scolding me, don't get involved in our relationship. How I want to talk to my dad is my business. I'm the one that's I'm the one that's been dealing with him for nearly four decades. Hey, don't come to me like, why do you tell me?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

You're terribly yes, you need to terribly mind your business. Terribly, absolutely correct. How about that? Keep it up, keep it coming. I'm the one leasing you the rent of dad. Ease up on a self.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

I'm joking. Honestly, dad, the last week, the amount of scolding I get from your little your little fans. I kid them like why are you so why are you so rough with him? Like, yes. At first, he's not a baby, secondly, he's not a puppy or a cat. I said he's I agree with everyone. Yes, there was a point where I would have said, okay, cool, maybe I am very hands-on and is that what do you call it now?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

First of all, it's not the case. Isn't that liable?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Uh I'll sue you. Okay. Listen. Um, but yes, we are.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Do you know what I what I was thinking when you asked me earlier? What did I ask you about? You said that uh you were thinking something. I know you're long enough. Okay, cool. Yeah, what were you thinking? I was thinking that I've really developed patience. Okay. Because and you've been a major contributor.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

That's funny. Can I say that has been a process of reciprocity because I feel the same way. Okay. My patience capacity where you are concerned. Oh my gosh, Dad. If God ever gets into another flood situation, I'm like, Lord, listen. If you kill them all, what are the other people gonna say about you, though? Um dad, it's wonderful to have you in this morning. How are you feeling about our new little dicks?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

I love it, it's really good. Really good. Well done.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Because you know me, um, I'm quite a person of comfortability and familiarity. So when I came this morning, I was a little bit like, where's the window?

SPEAKER_04 4:04

Where's Mike? Where's the sofa?

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Um, but I do love it because this is a beautiful space. Um, it's called the podcast space, and to anybody and everybody that is involved in media creation or content creation, this is a great space that is central in Cambridge for you to come and use. This is not at all a plug. Um, if you need anything here in terms of podcasting, um photo suites, and just everything within the media content world, the podcast space is a wonderful place. Great visionaries, um, lovely team here. Um, and it's just yeah, it's good vibes, and you know me. I wouldn't come somewhere if I didn't feel like it fitted with what I was trying to do or my vibe or my intention. So um, we are really excited about being here today. Dad, how are you feeling this morning? I am wonderful. Yeah, I know there's a lot going on in our house at the moment because we have a massive event. Um, the other side of my family, my mum and my brother, they do very well with their catering business. So we're just sending you lots of love. It's a massively busy season for them, and I haven't even seen my mum properly in a good couple months, to be completely honest. And my older brother, bless him, between the couple of spaces that he's working, we don't see them massive. So we love you and we're thinking of you and enjoying. So, those people that are gonna be at their event, you're lucky you're getting something I haven't had for a while. Um, how are you, Dad? I'm fine, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah, yes, and your morning's been a good one, it has been busy helping, as it says, the gang on the other side of the fence. I hear it, I hear it. They would appreciate it. Um, it's gone good to get them underway.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Love that. How's your week been so far?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

The week has been great.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

Yeah, Bible study's been good, yeah. And everything's cool. Love that really good. You know, let me not waste your time because we're a little bit behind time this morning. Um, Dad. So I sent you that video. Slight context behind the video. So um, the gentleman that lady is speaking about uh is a very prominent in this moment in this season comedian, uh, a guy called Moli Gilligan. Um, and in terms of his profile, you don't hear anything that would suggest what that video is suggesting, right? So, firstly, it was sent to me. Okay, and when it was sent to me, the person was like, You're never gonna believe this. And I was just like, okay, let me have a look. Look at this. I had a look, and dad, you know, when you see something, you get a knot. I got this horrible knot in my stomach, and then my brain's going through this process and going, Well, what are you getting weird for? This isn't you. But I kind of was putting myself in the position where, dad, I know what the domino effects of situations like this are. And there was a part of me that was like, I was looking at it in a slightly uh humorous way, because I was just like, oh my gosh, you really don't need this at this point in your life. And then I started to kind of consider it from a more personal perspective. Now I've never been in a situation like that. However, my capacity for grace increased when that I do know what it is to phone you from the other side of the world at half three in the morning on a FaceTime and be like, help me. And because of the way my brain works, my first thing was like, who does he ask for help? Right? So then all of a sudden, I'm taking away the preconceived idea that this person understands everything they're doing, everything they're doing is responsive and not reactive, and then you're looking at the whole flow of coming from obscurity to a certain degree, then you come into the limelight, you don't get training in that sense for your character to be able for you to manage yourself in situations in time past that you would have potentially sold your granny for. And then you're potentially looking into emotional spaces where a person is underdeveloped, um, potentially has trauma and breakage from both sides, and then you're looking at what I call the manifestation of the thing, which is these digital viral pieces that become most people's centerpiece for what this situation is. So, what I wanted to look at that is that most times, especially even in teaching or when I've watched you mentoring, ministering, counseling, and when I found myself in likely positions, or I'm trying to discern what's going on between two people, I always say there's his side, her side, and the truth is usually hiding somewhere in the middle, right? Um, and also I don't necessarily want to get taught caught talking about the individuals because I just believe the individuals are rotating pieces in a situation and assimilation that happens quite regularly, that there are men and women that find themselves in positions um and they might take advantage of their position, right? Which then leans them into spaces where you get issues like this. So, the first question I wanted to ask dad is watching that video as a father, what would have been your response or reaction to either your daughter coming home and telling you what happened or your son coming home and telling you what happened?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah. I think the first thing that I would be asked, it would be I would have ascertained that communication has really gone through the window. It has has years ago.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

That is the first thing. Um, because you cannot have a meaningful relationship without communication.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Oh, you're in. Oh, you're in. You come in and just go, right, here's what it is. So, but as you said, you cannot have a meaningful relationship without communication.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Communication. And there are a number of things that immediately becomes apparent to one that that communication was not there.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

It's disappeared.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Now, from her side, um, she is playing the emotional card. You see what I mean? Because that's what she wants. She wants everybody in his space to hate him, this, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever they can. And that's how you're designing that straight up. You see what I mean? Now, why? Because if she is pregnant for him, and let's assume she Oh no, she's had the child. Okay, and she had the child, and the DNA proved that it is his child. Now, why would you want to destroy your child's father, irrespective of how stupid you may behave, isn't it? Irresponsibly he may have behaved. Generations, it's gone a little bit beyond irresponsible.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

But that I still got to walk the road, you know. I'm joking. No, no, no, because when you do look at it, that that is the epitome of stupidity.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, absolutely. So you're you're not only creating a situation for the child that he will have to live in. This is the youthful traumas that we talked about. And that's one. Two, you are saying that this man said he did not want to be, he don't want to be a father.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

So did you not know this before you allowed yourself to be in a position to do that?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

That is that is that is a is that's important. So I'm looking at it now from his side for the moment. Got you. Um so what she would be doing is thinking, okay, he would have heard it before from the guy that I don't want to father a child at this time. It may be because of his career, yeah, it may be for different reasons. Yeah. And she would decide, no, I'm going to have something that is going to tie me to you eternally. And it doesn't matter what you do, where you go, how you go, I have a child. I have your child, and that gives me certain inalienable rights. To pursue you, to embarrass you, to do all the stuff that's depending on my emotions, that she's going to do. So that immediately tells me. And as a result of whatever comes from that discussion, he felt that for her to have done what she did, he probably doesn't want to hang around. And therefore, off he goes. That's the escapist approach. All right. Now she's clearly bitter and twisted about it. And that is why she has gone to public and in the worst kind of way. Because the video was up and then it disappeared. Absolutely. But it's already good, it's already re-gone viral. Yeah. Okay. For him as a father, even if he had suggested to her that he does not want to father a child. And it's look as if it's not just not wanting to father a child, he doesn't want to father a child with her. Yeah. Because he's going to have another child with someone else. Absolutely. And that's what annoyed her. Because how is it that you don't, you know, the narrative, you don't want to father this child, which is your child, but yet you've gone to somebody else and is happy to father that child. So again, it's sort of screaming out certain um realities. Okay, now from his point, is that especially if there were DNA testing involved, then he would have known, okay, this child is genuinely my child. Yeah. So therefore, I'm going to, I may not want to live uh with uh the mother, but I want to do right by both of them. Because I mean the child is not going to be doing good without the mother being in a good place. And clearly, from what we're seeing here, she's not in a good place. So he has that responsibility. Yeah. So he is negligent in that regard, not thinking about the damage that he's causing emotionally and in every other area of the child's life. Which one day he's going to try to find an excuse as to why he behaved the way he does, and hoping that that will be that will justify his action. You see, now by that time the child is already damaged. Because now he has to grow up in this very toxic environment of hearing, you know, and seeing it.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

And the conversations that he'll hear between his mom and her friends, and potentially how grandparents may react when his his father's name turns up, and then in his father's space, how they then speak about his mother. Yeah. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

And then you're gonna go to school, and it's everywhere. It's everywhere. And you know, this is the kind of stuff now that he has to live with that hell growing up, is what I mean in reality. So none of them is thinking about that innocent child.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Dad, and do you know what? I'm so glad you said that because I had a I had a point where I was going through my own thought process about it, and dad, I must have done about a million calculations in my head, and every single calculation I did, the answer came to the child. Which meant that everything I was seeing from the mother's need to put this video out to his father's need to create distance and space based on whatever's happened. I was like, neither of them are accountable to each other as co-parents, and neither of them are really, what's the word I'm looking for? Neither of them are really understanding the divine responsibility that comes with the gift of God giving you a child dad. Yeah because the activity you get involved in is what makes you accountable, and the gift that God gives you is the thing that ordains you with responsibility, right? So it goes beyond what you like, yeah, it goes beyond what you prefer. And I don't mean this to sound the way it is gonna sound. If I'm with a person and I have to say to the person I'm with, I don't want no kids with you, or the other person has to, or the other person's looking at me and is almost having to shoe me into a space where I can become the thing that they want and it's not organic. Dad, they are the biggest alarm bells to be going off immediately. Let me put this in the in a bigger way. So I work in music, dad, right? If I know the band don't know the music, and the artist is likely to walk off stage after the second song, and my equipment isn't gonna work, chances are that I might say no to that gig. Simply because I know everything attached to that gig is not going to allow me to do my job or be the best version of myself. And even in the little that I know, because I haven't researched this um this situation in a deep matter, I'm looking at what's being presented, and you can kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? You can lean it into many similar simulations, right? The reality is the information, the key information on the table that they both had to look at, neither of them were really happy to invest in what it was dad. Absolutely, but yet they allowed themselves to go all the way down the road, right? To the point of procreation. Yeah. And nobody's sitting here and saying she's not saying that he forced himself upon her, and he's not saying that she was stalking him and ran into his room and climbed through his window. So then there was enough conscious understanding in the moment, but it was of, in my opinion, uh the temporary visually impaired kind that causes you to behave in a way that has nothing to do with what you know, but everything to do with the sensory overload of how you feel and what you think. Dad, how do people stop themselves falling into for want of a better word? I know you love this word, this type of precipice.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

How do you stop yourself falling into these types of of course, everyone with any kind of reasonable conscience would know that you're hearing one side of the story. That's the other thing. Yeah. That is the first thing. And let's look at some perhaps one of the worst kind of scenario is that the relationship started with call it a one-night stand. Yeah. That was built off of just the sexual whatever. However, from her side, it may be a case where she um sees him, admire him because of the work he does. And he's in the public art. Precisely. And therefore from from being infatuated and she believes it's love. Um infatuation. Um led to her opening herself to becoming um an impregnated. Um he in like manner seems like that's his culture. You know, I mean to run around um getting on with one night, standing or there, um, letting good people feel that they're important to him. When in fact, for him, it is just another notch on his gun, as it were. So you see a lot of deceivable action coming through on both sides. Because when you truly love someone, you don't just love them because they are in a good space, yeah, uh, they are behaving right.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

You love them for them. You love them because they are who they are. And one is consciously aware that there are times when they're going to act out of character. And that is where you come into character. You see, you see, that is where. I think a lot of people missed it. That's so good. They feel that okay, if this person is acting out of character, I must work act worse out of character than they are. And that is but that's not love. That's not the kind of love that really one is looking for. You see. And in such a case, he, you know, like I just said, he did something um wrong. And she needed some time to meet up with him, whether through divine, through his agent, through whoever, and said, okay, you may not like me, you may not want to live with me, but here is an innocent um life that now is gonna impact both of us. And therefore, let us be civil about it. You get what I mean? Now the fact that the child is now going to be exposed to a one-parent family, that I have any problem with one-parent family. The fact is that there are some people who just couldn't avoid it. Um, there are others who could say, okay, this is the situation for the benefit of the child, perhaps sort out grandparents, because grandparents is sometimes better than even the parents, uh so to speak, especially in those critical times when the child is young and vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

So what she should have been thinking is that okay, if mom and dad explain the truth to them, they they love their daughter, so therefore they're going to do everything they can to help her in this situation. I'm sure they'll have no pleasure whatsoever seeing their daughter on social media and blinding in the way she has done over whatever it is that she's going through. And likewise, the other side, the boys for parents, would have no pleasure in knowing that somebody who they deemed as being brought up with all kinds of dignity and respect could do something.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

That he had done in times of when you see people of colour in spaces like he is to have no to have nothing negative on your rap sheet is incredibly hard. Yeah, dad. And the thing that caught me, and I wanna, I wanna, I wanna bring context to this because dad, I don't sit here from a position of judgment, it's more so from perspective. Dad, I know what it is to be in situations you shouldn't be in. And if I didn't have a you, I don't crawl back from the edge, dad. I go overhead first. I can sit here and say, I don't know what might or might not have happened if you don't pick up that face time. Indeed. You were asleep, dad.

SPEAKER_05 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Out cold, and I don't know what you were simulated in those five seconds when you saw my face, dad, because I know when you're sleep, sleeping. And the way it was almost like you remember Stars and their eyes that go through the door and then come back out. Dad, the way you had your glasses on, sat up and made you like, tell me. And dad, after I got over the initial like reaction to what I was watching, I said and I said, I don't know who he has to help him. I don't know if he even had someone he could phone and go, and the reason I say that is because sometimes, and especially I can't talk about everybody else, but I know sometimes within our culture, when you get to a position of prominence, it is an honor for us to look after those that we love. And when that becomes parents and grandparents and siblings and wider family, and you're putting things in place that is going to set up hopefully and potentially generational wealth, it sometimes puts you in a position where you aren't your hearing isn't as easily accessible. Yeah. And you can also put yourself in a position where sometimes you're not as accountable, right? One of the things I love about what we do, Dad, and especially when people kind of tell me off for being harsh with you, is sometimes I wish they could see the conversations when sometimes we're in the office and I'm either sitting at your feet or you're laying in the sofa and you're talking to me, and you can see I'm I'm ready to cry. Indeed, indeed. They're the parts that people don't see. So for me, I'm like everybody sees the lady, I get it 100%. I can understand emotionally the trauma for her and everything else is feeling. But in society, we don't necessarily lean into men's emotions. And dad, I don't know him personally, right? I know I'm aware of things that frequent his environment, and none of what's been presented, do I believe is the is the total sum and part of who he is. Indeed. Which means I know there's been moments where he sat and he's just like, I don't know how to fix this. And sometimes when you don't know how to fix it, it's easy to batten down the hatches and just ride out the nuclear blast.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Well, I think that is one of the reasons why looking at it, you question love from both sides. I don't think it was love, Dad.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

It's only it clearly. And I think it's something this generation is struggling with that they are convincing themselves that infatuation is the premise of love. Yeah. And it's not the predication, friend friendship. You need that because with your friend, there is nothing that you leave hidden. Because you don't expect them to judge you, because they're the one person that knows you for you outside of the projection of you. Yeah. And for me, I believe that she would have seen this successful man and she's totally invested in the projection. Yeah. And then you kind of get behind the curtain and you go, okay, there's there's some pieces here that's a bit broken, and and potentially for him, the way she may have appeared to him would have resembled something that either maybe rejected him at a less prominent moment of his life, or it's something within his own mind that is in terms of where his new position is taking him to, he's like, and I and for you, Dad, forgive the expression I'm gonna use. They're the spoils of war for people in his position that they get to take home. Of course. But then reality hits when you get certain conversations like, I'm pregnant, you can't phone your agent about that. You can't phone your lawyer and go, Oh, I need this in the contract. This is no lot, this is this is divine contractual situations where you don't get a guy that comes and says, Oh, actually, we like points two, three, and four, but can you get rid of five, six?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

And and I think a lot of these men in these kind of high-profile positions make one terrible mistake, perhaps several, but one in particular. They do not seek those that have wisdom to be around, you know, and who understand them from grassroots. Yeah. And that is where I think a lot of them, they just see the spotlight, see the money, and just think that, you know what, we are desperate for the acclaim, we're gonna go for it. And don't sit down and say to somebody, you know, have their genuine therapist. Not somebody who finds themselves in the position because, oh yes, I've got a degree or I have uh, you know, whatever education they have, but do they understand who I am? Do they understand where I'm coming from? Do they understand my background? And all of this, see, and that is where I think so many of them. And that's why in the long run, so many went go down. Are you saying, well, hang on here, you still have the money. Why are you going down? You still have the fame. Why is things not working out for you? Because there is another side to an individual, and in this gentleman's case, it's no different. Now he has a tremendous amount of problem because, like I said, his agent and his sponsorers are going to look at it and say, okay, do we want this kind of magic?

SPEAKER_03 30:55

That's my point, Dad. Because in the in the co-partnership of parenting, okay, yes, both parents can provide, but he was a viable father option because his capacity to provide was far bigger than probably anything else that you had. Yeah, that situation destabilizes the security you're going to need him to have for his child. Indeed. And why would you want to cut the legs off your father's child to then turn around and go, oh, not only did he want to see him, he can't provide for him. Why can't he provide for him? Oh, well, I went on social media and I decided to tell the world that he was a yeah, yeah. And the the reason why I'm so glad you've looked at it from both sides, dad, is because we can look at what a person says and understand what they're thinking. So you realize you're looking at two, well, one incredibly hurt person and another person that is trying to limit and do serious damage control. Although I think you really unearthed and demystified the formula for solution when you're like, without communication, there is no relationship on any format. Yeah. Emotionally, spiritually, professionally. Yeah. Um, and the I would say that the the fundamental found foundational step has to be you have to get to a point where you can speak to one another, not speak at one another, but share.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah. And the the big thing is her hurt will will be magnified, or she will magnify her hurt, depending on how much she's telling herself.

unknown 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Yeah. And that is where a lot of people hurt don't just come at you for the sake of coming at you. It's like we talked about grief last time. You have to cultivate it. Precisely the point, you know. So you can do it emotionally so that it impacts those who are watching you and listening to you. But in truth, you know what I mean, you do have either side of the coin you can go to. So you can either go down the emotional route and blow everything, you know, throw everything to the wind, or you go down the logical route and recognize that, okay, I've got a child, you know, I've got to take care of. He's gonna need going to school, he's gonna need the the best, his his father is a public figure, etc. etc. And you approach it logically, you see, in so doing. But oftentimes you see reaction because of what we call in the business um blocked gold. You see, that is it. Whatever her gold was, this man's action and stopped in his tracks, blocked gold.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

That I want to ask and make a statement, but I I want to do it from a very humble place. Um and I I I want us to share, I want you to be able to hear the information I'm saying and know that I'm not saying it from a place of attack, but actual just transparent honesty. You said something a couple of moments ago where you said there will be mentors and elders around him that he could and should be able to lean into that would stop him making certain choices that would just make it would wouldn't lean him into this. I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. Now, I'm very blessed because I have a relationship with you that that means that there isn't anything I can't talk to you about. I actually think if he had a you, we maybe don't get to this. Do you understand what I'm saying? That conversation I shared with you, Dan, it's not the only conversation I've shared with you. It's it's the constraint that stops you from doing something that will feel amazing in a moment and potentially mess up your life for the next however long, or derail the path, right? Dad, the thing I found with my friends when they have done things that have landed them in situations that they could have avoided, the reason the vibe because my friend said, why didn't you go and talk to someone? Why didn't you phone me? Dad, there are moments where when we speak to our elders, it can feel like unless we are coming from a place of weakness, we won't be offered the advice to be stronger than potentially what they were. So it's almost like Dad, when I thought I was gonna get married, there were moments where I needed help but didn't know how to ask. And I know you know me. And there would have been moments where you would have tried to speak to me and going, he's not listening. Do you understand? Which potentially would have, for you, you might have got so frustrated to the place where you went, Do you know what then? I'll tell you what, we'll see. Right? And it's not that I don't understand, I don't understand why not. But sometimes at the expense of we'll see, that that breakage that happens on the way back round, sometimes is the reason why the next model does the same thing, and instead of catching it before it goes over the edge, so instead of it being a remake job, yeah, right, it could potentially just be like, oh, that was close. And and I I sat there and I said to myself, I was like, right, because of the nature, dad, I never want to send you a video like that, especially with a person firstly, you're my you're my dad, right? I love you, and I am so blessed that there are dimensions in my relationship with you that lean into friendly type things, so I don't have to lie to you, dad. I can keep it 100%. But I also realize there are other types of relationship where it's more of an honorary system. So I saw this African father, this boy was playing a prank on his dad, and he decided to go into the house and shake his dad's hand.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

And his dad said, What's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_03 37:40

He goes, What's wrong with you? What have I done to you? And I'm I'm not gonna go into the action, Dad. When I say he scolded the boy, and then check this, his little sister here's the conversation, comes in, kneels by the dad's foot, goes, Hi daddy, and he goes, You see my daughter, and he goes, blessed, you will be blessed, and the boy is sitting there, recording it, and we can all see it, yeah, and it's brilliant because he realizes a funny moment, but it that the dad is acting so authentically, and in that moment, I was just I loved it because it was beautiful, right? But at the same time, I was just like, okay, I can see how he may not be able to boldly come before the throne to be like, so dad, the reason I got in at 4 a.m., he might be shit back home, dad, and in the boarding school before the weekend's done. So I sat here and I was just like, right, if I'm going to, if I'm gonna force my dad to trek with me through a field of manure, the least I can do is make sure there's some good produce on the other side, right, that makes the stench. Because this ain't what we do in this in this podcast, that we ain't here to talk about these gooey dub situations. However, we both have a heart to help people um and to make better what is and to better equip and prepare and prepare what is to come. Um, and like I said, like apologies to you know the subjects that we're speaking about. This is not us talking about you or trying to put your situation on everybody's mantelpiece or bedside table, but in terms of being able to take something that has the eyes of everybody and then dad generalize it. Because I'm telling you, there is a whole bunch of men and women that I've watched people's videos, I've heard women say, 'Well, if he told you he didn't want a baby, why were you opening your leg?' And I've heard men go, I always knew he was like that. And I'm like, okay, let's all quiet down the noise and let's look at the perspectives to create resolution, right? And resolve something to then create solution so that we can be better than the things we see. Does that make sense? Because, dad, that situation's happening in 10 different places that has no visuality or virality to it. But because that he is doing something positive with his life and progressive, dad, on the news, the biggest association with black men, young black men in London is knife crime.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Illegal activity. And he has found himself. If I told you that just under 10 years ago, Leon booked him to host a night he was doing in East London.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

For you to go from Leon booking you 10 years ago to you're doing your own Netflix special around the world. Yeah, this isn't a brother that doesn't know how to work down. And if he was what potentially he's been made out to be, that there is no way you get from there to there, they won't allow it. True. That I know people that sit on the board of BAFTA, and I have mentors that sit. You're not getting through that. So the question I wanted to ask you that is how do they build the first brick of communication? Because that to me feels like the most important thing. Yeah. I think you're gonna need mediation. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

And that is um, are you offering your services? I'm joking. You the mediation has to be on the basis of um genuine care. And genuine care is not gonna be based on finance, no, it's gonna be based on that maternal and maternal, yes, which is gonna be the child. And so therefore, uh, both of them would be best to sort of say, look, to their parents, you know what I mean, because they're still pretty young. Their parents, okay, look, we need you both, both sides of the family to intervene in this situation.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Guide, I agree with you up until the point of their conversation to me has to be absent of parents, and would need, in my opinion, uh a non, is it a non-bite like a an impartial, an impartial person to sit and merely listen to information, dad? Because parents will be invested emotionally, yeah, right, between and and and just from what I'm perceiving, I do not think parents either side at this moment, and obviously, like I said, it's perceiving, I don't know her parents, I don't know his parents, but dad, if that was my child, the first thing I'm doing is like get online and take that thing down now, right? That's the first thing. Now, potentially I'm gonna be in enough correspondence with them, we don't get to that.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Does that make sense? Because that to me feels like a person has had a lot of time on their own or with a certain group of people that are feeding a certain narrative, like you said, to them, right? Um, and then I would also have the parents have a conversation with themselves that I don't think would need to be mediated because I think they'd be in a situation to have an honest conversation, but I'm with you with the mediation.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Why I would why that wouldn't be the advice I would give to them is because the circumstances is not a regular circumstance. Right. A regular situation would fit in perfectly with what you're just suggesting. What's a regular situation? For example, you know, there isn't that kind of child involvement, there isn't the kind of uh public um defacing of the person's character, and vice versa. So why it has to be is that somebody has to care enough that there's a child involved, and it is that which is gonna bring those two grandparents together because they are involved whether. They know it or not.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

So, Dad, can I put this point to you? I agree with everything you've said. But that's my point exactly. The reason why it needs to be an impartial person is because it is regular, Dad. The reason why I say it's regular is because without the child, there is no conversation to be had. Because of the child, that, in my opinion, is what brings a certain uncertainty about the emotional composition of what's going on. That child has probably seen one set of grandparents way more than the other. Another set of grandparents is also figuring out how they also get ready to welcome in another grandchild who is going to fit within the family structure that they're being told is the one their son or their child wants. To me, Dad, based on the minimal that I've seen right now, neither has a nut. And here's the other thing. If I was Mo's family, first thing I would have done was reach out to the mother of my child. The second thing I would have done was, this is me personally. I would have gone online and I would have sat there and I would have said, firstly, I want to apologize that my personal life has found its way into your living rooms. Secondly, there are things that I need to do that need to take care of what's happened. Thirdly, I need you to give me time and grace because this isn't to do with what my job is as a showman. This is to do with who I am as a man, who I'm trying to be as a co-parent, and my responsibility, my divine responsibility as a father. And then at that point, Dad, unless it's to do with my work, which I'm probably gonna sit there and go, I don't need that right now, I then need to figure this out. And I just feel like, and I don't mean it's the way it's gonna sound, is that one of the reasons, one of the reasons why I like to get in trouble at school and you would turn up, right? Is because mum's way too emotional. Do you understand? Way too emotional, dad. Now, I don't want to scare the people at home and tell them some of the stuff I got involved in, right? But let's say, for example, when I stole your car after church that Sunday, you've gone to London thinking you're going to go preach a sermon, and I've just waited for you to leave because I'm like, I'm gonna drive that car, right? I then go pick up two of my school friends, I'm so glad I did this like decades ago. They can't come and rap me for this. I pick up two of my school friends, I'm whipping around the city, I go over Lime Kilm Hill, perfect. I come back, bust the tire dad. Yes, hazards on, crawl. Do you know how long it is? Of course you do, to crawl the car from Lime Kilm Hill to Stone Close. Park the car. Get out of the car, well, drop off my friends, park the car. Whilst I'm crawling the car, you know, dad. Um, park the car, do it well enough that when you get back, you don't even see that anything's happened to the wheel. So I'm then stuck with the dilemma of I could just say that a person went and pierced the tire in the night and I was like, wake up in the morning, I don't know what happened. But can I tell you honest truth? Because of my relationship with you, I knew it was easier for me to say what it was than to hide. Now, here's where my um calculation went a little bit wrong. I expected my mum to be so shocked that I'd stolen the car and just so overwhelmed and just like, oh, you're alive anyway. I didn't expect her to like not even let me finish, jump out of bed, run downstairs and be like, I was like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

To the point of I sat in my room and I was just like, Well, Lord, it's been fun. Uh, thanks for everything. And I'll see you in about 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Dad, I swear to you.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

When you called me downstairs, you know the Star Wars movie was like, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dad. You I remember Wally looking at me like, okay. It's nice to know you. Dad, he's like, sure, and I've seen you walk on water before, but this time, brother, you're drowning. You're done. And I remember mum was standing there, and this is how I knew she thought I was gonna I was gonna get a a real thorough discipline. She left the room. And I remember dad, you you, because you were laying in the sofa, and then you just looked at me, and you just went, get out of my sight. You just went, Sean, if you don't leave now, you just like get out of my sight. And I ran upstairs. I got into my room and I was just like, I'm still alive. And it took you two hours. And you came upstairs and you said, You're not leaving this house all week, you're not leaving this room all week. And you said, The only reason I'm not disciplining you is because I'm more thankful to God that He spared your life. That is true, Dad. And in that moment, I realized that you didn't want to react because had you reacted, it would have been an emotional expression.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Indeed, indeed, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

That is true, and your your decision to respond, I mean that you lost none of the potency of what you were feeling, but it gave you clarity of mind to be like he already knows how much trouble he's in, but here's where I get to teach him. Yeah. And imagine when I do have an accident, it wasn't on the basis of me doing wrong. Yeah. To the point when I'm I'm dad, that dad, when that boy flew into the front of my car, dad, I stopped the car, and my first thing was like, I just wanted to see someone moving so I knew he wasn't dead. To get out of the car, to sit at the road time and pray with a boy, dad. Be able to go to the police and tell Detective Biswell, I'm not gonna help you prosecute that boy. Because after him losing a leg, what more judgment? Yeah, yeah, what more judgment can you put on him? Yeah, Dad, you know the amount of friends that will phone me and thought because they didn't have my car that it was because I had some type of, I got some kind of um uh what do you call it when you get in trouble that I was charged with something. Yeah. And I sat there and I went, how easy it is for us to lean into what people think. And the negative commentary of what we believe to be, because we're so far removed from what God intended. Yes, we've forgotten how to be reflections of who he is dad. And that's the problem I have with both parents is that they are so invested in their own emotionality, they are missing the miracle of every day that of a divine gift that God will turn around and say, I sent you that to make you better than you.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

And that is why I felt that having the parent, the grandparents, yeah, involved in the equation, because for how the mother is reacting, yeah, and the extremity of her emotions.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

And for that child to having to live with that day and night. And anytime his name pops up, anytime anybody say things, and of course, for those who may just want to rub it in day in and day out, you know, as I said, the only way that you're gonna get a get a child with the potential damage and long-term damages, is for him to be in what they call a stable environment. Yeah, where he can experience love from but I everybody knows that what they call them over here, nan nana, nanny, nannies, nannies, is that what they call babysitters?

SPEAKER_03 53:00

No, or grandparents, nanny. Well, gran, granny, nana, I'm I'm old school, so I'm grandma, and grandma next she went into the granny or gran or nana thing. She was just like grandma. I remember I tried it when I was like, And she was like, Who? And I was like, uh grandma. So yeah, but you you're right. So so yeah, and it is that which they've done a lot of great jobs with a lot of people, and it's you said something deep to me, and I don't don't lose your train of thought there, what you're saying. You said to me, You said, Sean, grand grandparents love their grandchildren because they often see it as a second chance to do what they didn't get to do the first time around.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

I remembered that word for word.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yes, yeah, to close my eyes often. That is exactly the reason why, and that would help her overcome her emotion, um, and you know, with love, because when she goes around to see her her child, that was something she spoke about because she said that I think from the first couple of times that he'd seen her, I think whatever she'd seen in terms of the care and the affection and the love from the family, that she was like, oh my gosh, like exactly that will rebalance her. That is the thing, and the same thing would happen, would happen to him. So again, he would have the chance to be the gentleman, given the fact that the world is going to judge him. He's under serious judgment and condemnation about the world, and it is what I don't want him to feel any condemnation from us. No, no, not from the world. All right. You see, because the world is, you know, they're merciless when they when it comes to judging. These people are wicked, you know, and some get the pleasure of it for different reasons. Yeah. So so you're gonna need that. But beside all of that, they both need counseling. Yeah, and that is where I hope if they get a chance to see this, that they would take it in the best light and reach out to whether whoever they feel can offer them the best form of counseling. Of course I can, but you know that plug was wicked.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

I didn't even see it coming. I don't usually see everything.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

But do you know what, Dad? One of the things, and you know, you we know the stuff that we're planning the sidelines. One of the things I've always thought was part of my purpose, right? Because obviously, you know I love teaching, like music's my gift, but teaching I feel is like my purpose. I love it, Dad. I always wanted to provide a service to labels and to people in media and entertainment where because of the nature of these people with profiles, dad, they can't be seen just oh, he's seeing so-and-so, because these labels are crazy enough to believe that well, we need to post a projection of visuality so that people don't whatever. And I'm like, okay, cool, do what you're doing, but let me help. Yeah, and dad, to provide a safe space where you can go and you can talk, speak into these people, dad, because there is a place that you can get to where you stop trusting the everyday interactions of people because you were cons you live consistently in this world where you're the sun, the moon, and the stars, and that's impossible. Yeah, so when you can actually believe that that's the reality, something's gone wrong. And because of your position in ministry and and some of what I do in my job and where I've got to, Dad, to be able to talk to a person and go, right, give me the cloak of visuality, and let's just be humans. Indeed. And let me speak into you and speak into your spirit, because if I can affect that, that will change this, and this will affect everything around you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

And you've seen it, you've seen it on a number of occasions where people come and even though their initial intention was not even to discuss the issues that is deep down inside, but that discernment makes a tremendous amount of difference. And that is what you would need right there, for example, and that's one of the things that I just by looking at her, I could tell where she's at. Yeah. And therefore, you can bring a person out from where they are if you know where to find them. That's why I love talking to you, you know.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Because there are times where I'm I'm visually impaired. I'm telling you, Dad. And I'm taking the information, and then sometimes look to me like, and you look at me like, yeah, you idiot. How do you not see that? And it's after I kind of suck out the toxicity or the the toxins of the I'm like, huh. And you're like, yeah, and that sometimes you need a person that is they have enough distance to be able to provide clarity because for them, this is subjective. The reason why I feel like you've been able to offer some of the priceless wisdom you have is because we can objectively look at the whole picture. Subjectivity tells me what's in front of you. Objectivity tells me what's not only in front of you, but what's ahead of you. Because it's like being on the mountain and being on the ground, right? Yeah, and you can see what's coming east, west, north, south. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

Normality, abnormality. Got you. Got you. So that's where most people think they can get to the solution by following a normal pattern with in a lot of cases in your.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

No, I get you, Dad. That's no, you're you're you're so right. You're so right. Um thank you. You're welcome. Um, thank you to everybody that's taken the time to listen to this podcast. Um deep. There are so many takeaways. Um I hope it's spoken to you. Sorry, I'm back now. I was just in a in a in a little spell. Um I hope that there is something that you're able to take away, something you're able to share. And when I say spell, I didn't mean like in that mystical way, because we no, I was just somewhere else. Um that you share this, that you have something to take away. Um, and also that when we in this digital age of being presented things that appear wholesome or as if we're getting the whole truth, a lot of the time we are getting a very small bite-sized snippet that actually looks something more like the catchphrase board when they're just revealing squares and we're here trying to guess the whole picture. Um, but we know that there's information here that we can give to friends, um, to colleagues, to people we know. Share it, share it, share it. It's easy to laugh at misfortune, it's harder to be an agent of positive change in those moments. Um and that all comes from down to a decision. So, guys, thank you for today. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share. Um, you can also support us at yo popop'spoddy, paypal.me forward slash yo popspody. And bishop hello Williams. We haven't got to that beat yet. We haven't? Uh I'll I'll point to you when it's time for that bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Don't forget there are people watching that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

I know, but I I really do you know why I think they send me messages? Because they I don't know if they've got the heart to come and say it to my face. Isn't it so? They've got their hands. I see you too. Um, so yes. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share. You can support us at PayPal.me forward slash at yo popopspodty. Um, also please stream, stream, stream on Amazon, Apple, Spotify, Deezer, Listened Podcast, Podcast Indexed, um, Addict Podcast, it's all there. Um, and for our URLs, mine is at Sean Williamsworld. Feel free to follow, follow, follow. And my father's really so when you need to say it, you can't say, you're now super califragilish for the notion. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

Um and um dad, can I can I can I give you a little clue?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Whilst you're there going it's already on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Okay, good, good.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

They can see it. You're brilliant. Um, and guys, we will see you next time. Take it easy. Okay, stay blessed. Welcome to Yo Pop's Afterthought. Um, if I'm honest with you, I had so many thoughts going through that podcast. Um, from the moment I received that video and I had time to sit with the situation, um, I knew that I had to do something better than what normal reactions to those moments embody. Um, and I'm gonna do something I've never done before, and I don't feel like I have the words to suffice the situation. And in my personal life, when I lack the words to suffice any situation, I then go to a higher form of communication and I pray. So I want you all that are sitting with me and have the ability to, if you will, close your eyes, bow your heads, or just sit in a moment of quiet contemplation with me. God, I thank you for everything. Um, you know how to do anything but fail. I thank you for love, life, joy, and peace. But more than that, I thank you for moments that we don't understand because that's where you do your best work, God. And our relationship with you is about trust. And how can I trust you if every path that I'm walking, I know the route, I know the direction, I know where I'm supposed to go. God, you know the ins and outs of this situation. You know the hearts of both parents, um, and you are the creator of the most priceless gift that they share. I'm asking you, Lord, that the Holy Spirit allows for peace in the environment that holistic and pure and intentional conversation and communication can happen. Um, I pray, God, that even with the influences of grandparents and friends and siblings, let light, love, and peace be at the center. God, if that divine gift that you've given them stays at the forefront of everybody's mind, there can not only be resolution, but there will be solution because you have provided their iOS update in real time and allow them to step away from themselves enough to realize that he has the bug fixes and the reflection of who he is and the intention of how it makes them better, that's the key to this. Um, and also, God, I would have them come to know you and for you to sit as the super glue in their family that allows them to reflect what you've meant for family to be, not only a reflection of your love for us on the earth, but also as the system and structure by which you'll show yourself to us through. Um, I pray for everybody that's watching this and that may be going through a similar situation, give them clarity, God. Um, give them peace, um, but also more than anything, allow them to never feel alone. We thank you for everything. In your name, Jesus. I always pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

Oh, thanks.